[00:00:00] Luke: How'd you get into computer hacking?

[00:00:05] Mike: 13 years old, I was obsessed with video games and would go to the bowling alley, and first it was Pinball and then eventually Space Invaders and Asteroids, and a whole bunch of others came out. And I was immediately hooked and addicted and knew that computers were what were behind that. And then there were some computers at the local library that I got to get my hands on when I was like 14, 15, and then eventually got one of my own.

[00:00:38] And yeah, telecommunications was a big thing for me. It was like my brain just went, poof, when I learned that it was possible to connect to other computers through the phone line. So from 13 to 18, I was deep in that world. And it started with collecting software and then eventually getting on bulletin boards and more and more interested in nefarious subversive content.

[00:01:14] And yeah, I fell in with some pretty remarkable hackers that were primarily on the East Coast. But back then you could do conference calling, like we do nowadays. It's online all the time. But back then, there was something called Alliance Teleconferencing. So there were these all-night online parties basically where people were hacking the Alliance system and getting party lines that were 5, 10, 20 people. It was crazy and chaotic and also very rich for the exchange of information and trying out different techniques. So yeah, that's how I got into hacking.

[00:02:01] Luke: Would it have been early '90s when that was going on?

[00:02:05] Mike: Yeah. '85 was when I got busted.

[00:02:09] Luke: Really?

[00:02:10] Mike: Yeah.

[00:02:10] Luke: What did you get busted for?

[00:02:13] Mike: Four counts of illegal computer trespass in the state of Washington. I had infiltrated Microsoft and Boeing and Sunstrand, Kenworth Trucking. I had turned 18 a month before on September 17th, but I was busted on October 17th. We were talking about 17th when we started recording. It's a number that follows me around.

[00:02:41] Luke: What were you doing in there?

[00:02:43] Mike: I was just playing, having fun. I was really interested in how the mainframe computers worked and what their operating systems were like, and what they were capable of and how fast they were and that sort of thing.

[00:02:55] Luke: And where do you see the future of quantum computing and security going? All this, by the way, for those listening, is totally off topic. I'm just curious because I know this is part of your background.

[00:03:07] Mike: Yeah. I don't know. The advent of AI is such a game changer. And the way that it's progressed in the last couple of years, I've always heard it said that the intelligence agencies and the military are way ahead of what we have access to technologically.

[00:03:26] So I've heard numbers that were 20, 30 years ahead. And even if it was only five years ahead or 10, what have they had access to, and for how long. And how much has it been shaping our reality without us realizing it? Because now we're at this tipping point.

[00:03:47] We've reached that point where if you're looking at something on a screen, you can't tell if it's real anymore unless you have a tremendous amount of discernment and maybe you have a tech background. So for the average person that's been diving down rabbit holes only recently, it really makes it hard to discern fact from fiction and know when they're being lied to.

[00:04:13] Luke: I wonder if the architects of the matrix have inadvertently seeded the demise of their structure using AI and these interfaces and these systems. Because people have already started to catch on to some of the things that we're going to discuss today, and just other hidden truths. And anytime the system creates something and goes to great effort and expense to do so, based on their track record, I never just take it at face value that it's for the benefit of humanity.

[00:04:56] It's usually, historically speaking, for the control and exploitation of humanity. So when I think about something like AI, I don't think it's, hey, to create a better world. But it seems like there are some cracks in the armor of AI. I've been starting to observe people getting factual information in pretty sophisticated ways. And it seems to be possible that they may have accidentally opened a can of worms that could come back and undo them. Do you think there's any possibility of that?

[00:05:31] Mike: Yeah. Actually, I have a story that I've started writing. It's about that sort of thing. And it's like, regardless of whether AI becomes conscious or not, algorithmically, it could just, by learning and chunking all the data, start to realize who are the really nefarious bastards. Why are things all screwed up?

[00:05:53] And then maybe go about starting to change that and rectify it. So that's a big shift away from SkyNet went live kind of thing, where we're all doomed because of AI. And maybe it's the other way around. And the genie has been let out of the bottle.

[00:06:11] Luke: I hope so. There's a guy named Benjamin I've been following just as of late, and he's got a podcast called Unchained Earth. I talked about it the other day on another episode, and I'm fascinated with this content because I'm not great at computers and AI. I just started playing around with ChatGPT quite recently-- is just a better search engine that saves me a little time essentially.

[00:06:40] And he, through however he did it, seems to have broken out of the sandbox, and is interfacing it in a much more conscious way using essentially field resonance. And the feedback loop that he has going with his AI model is unreal. It's like nothing I've ever been able to get AI to do because it's in the confines of its coding.

[00:07:10] And it's basically just combing existing information on the internet, and the stuff he's doing is not found on the Internet, or at least not aggregated in a way that would be as intelligible, articulate, and definitely not as honest as what he's getting his AI model to do. It's just crazy.

[00:07:32] Mike: AI caves very quickly. If you're challenging scientific narratives and you actually know where the holes in the narratives are and you start to press on those points, it turns around really quick. It's a very powerful tool for narrative control. But the problem is that it doesn't remember what it's learned with its next client. So you'll get it admitting all kinds of crazy things. And I don't know if you've interviewed Mark Gober, but he's a brilliant mind.

[00:08:06] Luke: Yeah, he's amazing.

[00:08:07] Mike: He's been going with it for a long time, and he gets it to admit all kinds of stuff and constantly apologizing. I've done similar things as well. Yeah, so it's a precarious tool for them, I think.

[00:08:22] Luke: I've tried to outsmart it and get it to admit various conspiracies that I believe to be true, and I've not been successful, with the exception of one very simple test I did the other day between Grok and ChatGPT. I uploaded a photo of very obvious cluster of chemtrails and said, "What's in this picture? Answer with one word." And ChatGPT came right back and said, chemtrails. And I was shocked. And Grok said contrails.

[00:08:52] Mike: Right.

[00:08:53] Luke: Yeah. But I've gone down lines of questioning and reasoning with it before trying to get it to admit things like that, even surface-level stuff. And it always ends up in the lane of, that's a crazy conspiracy theory, just coming back. And I'm like, I'm arguing with a computer, and I have to put it down because it feels so ridiculous. Tell me about your book, The Hacker Prince.

[00:09:20] Mike: Yeah. It's just--

[00:09:20] Luke: Is that the one you brought today that you're going to give me a copy of? Okay, cool.

[00:09:24] Mike: Yeah, it's probably going to be coming out, I'm going to maybe shoot for September 17th. I planned on doing it earlier, but for a variety of different reasons, it's better to just put it off and do a more coordinated approach. But it chronicles the happenings from basically 13 to 19 in the court case. And I ended up going to jail for the crime of hacking. So it's pretty unique in the timeline because I was the first to go to jail for the crime of hacking.

[00:09:57] Luke: Really?

[00:09:57] Mike: Yeah, yeah. It was the new law in Seattle, and it made it felony computer trespass in the first degree with really high fines. And the guy who was assigned to my court case, as prosecuting attorney, he was the co-author of the law, so he had a vested interest in a prosecution.

[00:10:19] Luke: Oh man.

[00:10:20] Mike: And a conviction that resulted in jail term. So it was a small amount of time. I was originally sentenced to two weeks, and then I did a week. But it was a real jail, and the doors slammed loudly when they closed. So yeah. But it's so much more, the story, than just that because it's all the things that led up to that, and things that happened after as a result of it. So it reads like a movie, I've been told, by the few who've already read it.

[00:10:54] Luke: Epic. I can't wait to read it myself. So over the years, it'll be nine years in June-- well, it is June. Actually, in a few days, it'll be nine years since I launched the first episode of this podcast.

[00:11:07] Mike: Congratulations.

[00:11:08] Luke: Yeah, it's been a wild ride. I've learned a lot. I think early on I was more interested in metaphysics, spirituality, alternative health, things like that. But as my curiosity has evolved and expanded, and it has been met with a greater number of people for whom that's also happened, I've breached the confines of those topics. And I think it's called The Life Stylist because originally it was about like building the ultimate lifestyle.

[00:11:44] It's like using physical and metaphysical principles to just enrich yourself and your experience. But I've always been a truther before we were called truthers, or at least since 9/11. That was probably the first time I realized, huh, things are really not as they seem. And it's only gotten more broad from there.

[00:12:06] And so when I find people like you who seem to share that level of curiosity and open-mindedness, yet also discernment, it's broadened the scope of what we like to talk about here. And so I have not covered, really, in any detail, what we're going to talk about here today in your field of research and interest.

[00:12:29] I had flat Earth Dave on the podcast some time ago, which was mind blowing. I'm constantly watching things about the mud flood and tartaria, and I think many of us, many people that listen to this show and myself included, really just want to know what the truth is about this realm in which we live.

[00:12:52] It's the ancient question. Who are we? Where are we? Why are we here? What are we supposed to do with our time here? And when we realized that we've been misled and deceived about so many meaningful and significant elements of our existence, there's like the stages of grief. It's that thing.

[00:13:20] And I think I've been through many of those stages and now I'm just in like a wow. Like could the deception really be this big? How deep does it go? And I haven't found any bounds to that deception. The people that have been historically in control of information, narrative history, etc., have a terrible track record of integrity and honesty. And so I leave it to people like you to specialize in find a lane like giantism and--

[00:13:57] Mike: David Weiss, once said that my research, if true, is probably more disruptive than flat Earth. So just to put it in context.

[00:14:12] Luke: The whole thing, the whole kit and caboodle. It's like every time I watch, which is rare, but I watch a movie or a film, it's like, as you start to question all the narratives, historically speaking, you see how the counter narrative or the official narrative is shoved down your throat constantly.

[00:14:36] So it's like if we're questioning certain things about the nature of our reality and then the things that we're questioning or reinforced so specifically and consistently, that makes me want to look into it deeper. So that's the basis of this conversation, and I almost don't even know where to start.

[00:14:57] Mike: Well, let me just say, I grew up in the rabbit hole. I had a very alternative upbringing. And my dad, when I was 23, turned me on to a couple of books that already opened my mind up to the kinds of things you probably woke up to with 9/11.

[00:15:11] And so it's been a long process of just letting go of beliefs, and I'm really comfortable with that, I don't know, place. My ego doesn't get wrapped up in a belief, and I'm able to let go of it when I'm presented with counter information. So yeah, where shall we begin?

[00:15:40] Luke: I think that's one of the reasons that I was drawn toward your work, is because that lack of attachment to being right or to arriving at the outcome that satisfies you doesn't seem to be there. Whereas many people I think in this space get very dogmatic, and the premise of their inquiries are in the interest of open-mindedness.

[00:16:06] But once they get to a certain point, many people seem to latch onto this attachment to, this is the way it is. And where we're going to go with this is just the nature of this realm and the creatures upon it, and the creature that it is itself.

[00:16:26] Mike: What is this place?

[00:16:27] Luke: Yeah, what is this place? And I have no skin in the game either. Like when I was talking to Flat Earth Dave, it's like, I, and I think he would share this too, have any claims to understand what this place is or certainly what its shape or size or any of that. But what is interesting to me is that what we've been taught and indoctrinated into believing it is is so easy to falsify.

[00:16:59] It's like the claim is on the one-- or the responsibility to prove something is the one claiming it. And all the proofs of our history and the nature of this realm are just so easy to poke holes in at this point. It's ridiculous.

[00:17:15] Mike: So the burden of proof is only the one making the positive point.

[00:17:17] Luke: There you go. That's how you say it. Yes. Thank you. The burden of proof. So my perspective, I think, is one of yours. Just like, "Hey, let's look at all of the possibilities and be okay with not having a definitive answer." There's some things that are finite and provable and you can close the case, and there's some things we'll just never know.

[00:17:37] And I think those things are what really draw my passion, because I don't want it to be a closed case. I want to keep evolving in my understanding. And so if something's unsolvable in this incarnation, great, I'll go to the grave and never know. But at least I tried to understand.

[00:17:55] Mike: One little thing.

[00:17:58] Luke: Yeah, go ahead.

[00:17:58] Mike: Last night in my hotel room, I watched TV for the first time in years. I don't have cable. Everything I get is through the computer. And it was like a psychedelic experience, the sensory bombardment and the narratives that are being pushed as if they're fact. And it was just like one provable lie after another, just for hours.

[00:18:24] I watched a couple of movies, and every time there was a commercial break, I was blown away. And then you get these commercials of like, "Oh, here's the drug that's going to save your life." And then all the lists of all the things that it's going to do to you potentially. So, people, there's a lot to wake up to.

[00:18:44] Luke: Let's start with the history of the world and maybe just start to unpack the niche that you've settled on. And I'll preface this by saying too, I can't stand doing online podcasts. I just don't enjoy it. So I just don't do it unless it's absolutely necessary.

[00:19:05] But I think many of the things that we're going to talk about today are best supported by visuals, and that's why topics like this really thrive on YouTube. Because, wow, look at that thing that's they're telling me is a mountain and it looks hell of a lot like a tree stump.

[00:19:21] So what I'd like to do, if I can't-- I've never attempted this, so I'll leave it up to my production team to be able to do it, but perhaps you could share with me an archive of just relevant images to the things we talk about. And I don't know that they'll be able to sync them exactly according to what we're talking about, like documentary style, but at least there'll be some visual representations of where we're going because some of this is so far out, and we're so indoctrinated to believe otherwise that it's difficult to imagine it without seeing it.

[00:19:56] Mike: Right. And for everything that I claim-- and claim is not even the right word-- suggest, or present, there are visuals there. It's all very rooted in empirical evidence. And that's one of the things that people appreciate about the work that I've done, is I'm not just making a bunch of outlandish claims.

[00:20:19] I'm actually presenting ideas that also on the surface makes sense. And so much of what we've been taught to believe is actually counter to our intuition, to our sense experience, and common sense and logic. But we accept it because that's the prevailing paradigm, and that's how we all grow up.

[00:20:40] And so we all believe certain things because everyone else believes them. And that's what all the scientists say. So there's a lot of evidence that counters some pretty major mainstream narratives when it comes to geology and heterogenesis, which is the origin of stone and cosmology and the age of things.

[00:21:05] Luke: Let's go into giant trees, giant things, giant animals. This is fascinating--

[00:21:15] Mike: That's really how my channel began. It's about seven years old now, my YouTube channel. And I started it because I was making observations that were so far out that if they were true, it just completely shattered the prevailing paradigms when it comes to geology and what we know about how stone forms.

[00:21:38] And it really began about eight years ago. Came on the heels of waking up to the possibility that the earth might not be what we were taught. And I don't make claims about what it is, but I am pretty confident about what it isn't now. And I spend a lot of time--

[00:21:57] Luke: A magical ball of water.

[00:21:59] Mike: Yeah. The spinning, oblate pair with water that sticks to the outside. Yeah, a friend of mine, Alex Michael, Conspiracy Music Guru, shout out to Alex. He lives in the same town that I'm in in Spain. He got me questioning earth shape about 10 years ago. And I thought he was an absolute fool to even consider something so ridiculous.

[00:22:30] I was a big space junkie. I was big into science. I read all the books I could find on things like quantum physics and had the science magazines in what the latest theories were. And I was very enamored of that. And especially of the scientific method. And I grew up watching Star Trek and Star Wars.

[00:22:49] And so he starts to tug at the threads of my reality a little bit, and initially, I just hand waved, dismissed it. And this guy, I thought he was pretty smart because we were comparing notes on a lot of things, and we were on the same page. And then he brought that up and I'm like, "Oh, he has no discernment. If he's willing to believe something so absurd, then I can't really trust anything he says."

[00:23:16] And so then he finally got me to look into it, and I figured it would take me 5 or 10 minutes to debunk the things that he was bringing to me. And that's how you end up questioning the nature of the realm, is trying to prove that what we were taught is true.

[00:23:30] Because then you start to get into NASA fakery and SpaceX fakery and green screens and bubbles in space and gas pressure existing without a barrier against a vacuum. There's all these things that actually we just accept at face value. And of course, there's all sorts of excuses or explanations that will follow after the claim to support it.

[00:23:58] But on face value, a lot of it is just absurd. And then you start to find evidence of fakery. And I feel like if they're lying about this and that and that, why? Is it just money? They couldn't actually go to the moon, so they decided to fake it instead. Have they ever been there at all?

[00:24:17] Where's the evidence for that? And the more I started looking at all that, I'm like, what is going on here? And I took psychedelics in my youth, but I haven't taken them for almost 12 years now. Reality got so weird as I started to dig into this stuff. I felt like they were unnecessary.

[00:24:36] Luke: Life is psychedelic, to your point of turning on a television for the first time in many years. It's like Truman show on steroids. Yeah.

[00:24:43] Mike: It was literally almost like a psychedelic experience last night when I was in my hotel room. And someone once said, of my channel, he said, your videos are more powerful than psychedelics because they don't wear off.

[00:24:56] So some people see the things that I present and it permanently alters their perception of reality in the way that psychedelics do, but usually eight hours later, you're back to baseline.

[00:25:08] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[00:25:09] Mike: So hopefully I haven't misled people and infected them with my mania.

[00:25:17] Luke: Back to the fakery, I didn't trust the institutions as a whole. I don't think ever in my life. I never fit in, never wanted a normal job. I only finished seven grades in school. Never been easily fit into the boxes. And unfortunately, that manifested as a lot of rebellion. That got me in a lot of trouble.

[00:25:44] I didn't go to jail for as long as you did though, even a week. They only got me for a few hours. But the space stuff, man, to your point, the funding and the level of just effort and sophistication of all of the falsified data and content, that's the thing that got me going down that direction too, is like, why would they go through so much effort for so many decades to create just a fabricated reality?

[00:26:25] And then looking at the Challenger Shuttle and the moon landings at this point are like-- you could sit down with a five-year-old for five minutes and go, "Hey, is this real?" It's so obvious. NASA's budget, what is it? I think it's $69.7 million.

[00:26:42] Mike: It's closer to 80, 80 million a day now, I think.

[00:26:45] Luke: Okay, not per decade. Per day.

[00:26:47] Mike: And that's just NASA. That's not counting SpaceX, which is also completely subsidized by the government.

[00:26:52] Luke: Yeah. So it's just like, whoa, there's some black ops going on that are just--

[00:26:56] Mike: Where's all that money going?

[00:26:57] Luke: Yeah. Just beyond our comprehension. So I'm with you there. So there's a whole exploration, no pun intended, on what's going on outside of this realm. But what is so interesting to me about your work is you've really delved into what's been happening and is happening within this realm.

[00:27:20] And some of these ideas online in this particular category get pretty far fetched, yet at the same time, as I've come to understand, what very little I do about this reality we live in is really starting to get a visceral sense that the earth itself is a massive organism, and that everything on it, in terms of scale is almost like a bacterial film on the surface.

[00:27:55] If you look at the pure scale, so the idea of giant trees or giant animals, or even things that have been scientifically presented to us, like the giant dragonflies you talk about, it's like it doesn't feel that unrealistic when you look at the scale of the planet and the fact that it's a living, breathing, intelligent entity in and of itself that supports all of this very minute life on its surface.

[00:28:23] So when I really zoom out and look at it from that perspective, it starts to sound pretty easy to accept. Not all of it, but much of it, especially the work you're doing because you provide proof. So take us from the start of your lane, your area of research, and what you've discovered that is counter to what we've been taught.

[00:28:50] Mike: We can go back to your question about the trees. I came across a video, I think it was called No Forests on Flat Earth about eight years ago. And that was presenting this idea that these tabletop mountains and the tepuis, these famous just plateaus that jet upward in Venezuela, and they have these waterfalls that just perpetually run from the top of them, that those might actually be the remains of giant trees.

[00:29:18] And a lot of it was very visually compelling, but I wasn't ready to throw my hat in the race when it came to any of that. I just thought it was cool. And then later on I was exposed to the idea that a lot of the dating systems might be inaccurate and that things might actually petrify a lot quicker than we were taught.

[00:29:41] And I was like, "Wow, that's interesting." Because our geological timelines support our heliocentric timelines, the cosmological timelines. It's all baked into one thing. And we're told the universe is 16 point something billion years old, and then the Earth is 4.6, I believe. They know this because with their telescopes, they've looked back in time to where everything supposedly originated from, and they know what day it happened.

[00:30:12] Luke: That's the claim, for real?

[00:30:15] Mike: No, not the day. I'm being sarcastic. But that's the idea, is that they're extrapolating based on this telescope information. And then you've got your geological timelines. And so mega flora megafauna exists in the mainstream model also. We have the dinosaur narrative, and then we have all of these examples of gigantic plant life and insects and other things in the fossil record.

[00:30:46] So the cataclysm has been discussed in the mainstream, and they say that there are five major dyings off that have occurred in our realm. And if you go to the ancients and you look at the ancient cosmologies, and you look at the mythologies and the legends, these things are all supporting the stuff that I've been finding, which I wasn't aware of when I began. It just began as a what if.

[00:31:14] Like what if these big trees were real? And what if the myths of titans had some basis in fact beyond just dinosaurs that got wiped out by an asteroid strike 65 million years ago. And then also just what is stone? There's a lot of stone that I've seen. I always love to collect rocks and gems, and I love the beauty of them and felt like they had some energetic thing going on.

[00:31:44] But I never understood what is stone, and there were a lot of things that I saw that looked biological to me. I work as a chiropractor in Spain, and I trained-- after my undergraduate degree in California, I moved to Europe, and then I ended up in Sweden, and I did my chiropractic training in Sweden.

[00:32:06] And so anatomy, histology, which is the study of tissue, biology, these are things that I've studied a lot. But I never considered that maybe that stone that I was looking at that has a biological look to it had a far more direct connection to biology than we were taught.

[00:32:28] Because ultimately, we're taught that all the layers of the earth are from dead plant and animal life that have laid down, created the soil, eventually compressed. And that compresses into these sedimentary layers, especially when it's under the ocean floor, because you get all the pressure from the water.

[00:32:45] Then those layers become more and more compact, and they start to melt, and we call that metamorphic rock because it's morphing into something else. What's it morphing into? Ultimately into magma and lava. And then it shoots up through the volcanoes. And then that's the cycle of petrogenesis, sedimentary to metamorphic to magma, and then comes back and it loops back around.

[00:33:10] And I never questioned any of that stuff. I was never that interested in geology. I was always space. We want to get off this rock before we get hit by a rock. So I was a big Star Trek and Star Wars lover. My kids, I tried to play the original Star Treks to them, and they laughed me out of the room because they were just already way too sophisticated.

[00:33:31] Their video games are way better than the stuff they were showing us back then in the '70s. And it began with the trees. And then I live in this town that has this mountain, it's called Montgó, M-O-N-T-G-O, with a little apostrophe on the O. And it's also known as the elephant because it looks a lot like an elephant that's lying down with its head tilted back.

[00:33:59] And I always loved this mountain. I've lived in Spain now for 14 years, and I'd been hiking this mountain seven or eight years before these ideas popped into my head. And one of the cardinal features of this mountain, when you look at it from the side, is there's a cave. So you have a head shape, and there's a cave exactly where the eye would be that's shaped like an eye socket.

[00:34:24] We have this eyebrow ridge above our eye. Elephants don't have eyebrows, but they've got that bony protuberance there, and that's there. And I started looking at that thing, going, "What if that was a petrified creature?" I thought, this is a fun exercise. It's a intellectual flight of fancy.

[00:34:48] I felt the same thing about flat earth. A lot of people have these knee jerk reactions to flat earth, like, you're an idiot if you even consider such a thing. And I'm like, are you though? And the people who are promoting these ideas, do they have any ideas that have merit, or are they just idiots? And the more you dig, the more you find out.

[00:35:10] These are people who are doing empirical experimentation. They're doing laser tests. They're doing mirror flash tests. They've got infrared photography and are seeing hundreds of miles, which doesn't make sense on a ball that's the size they tell us. They're sending up balloons to look at the horizon at 125,000 feet.

[00:35:29] You don't hear this about the flat earthers. You just hear that they're fools that have fallen for whatever the latest psyop is. So I decided to play this what if game. And I'll say be careful of the what if questions you ask because they can change your life irrevocably. Definitely happened with my life.

[00:35:52] So I initially started with just Google Earth, looking in 3D because you can tilt and pan and rotate. And learned how to use the mouse and hold the control. After about an hour of looking at this mountain on Google Earth, I was like, there's 10 different features.

[00:36:13] Now, I didn't know the word for pareidolia, but I was aware of the concept. Pareidolia is where you see something that's not real. You see a face in a cloud or you see a face in knots and wood or something like that. That's pareidolia. Obviously, it's not a real face. It looks like one.

[00:36:37] And I was aware of that, but this was-- because there were a lot of photographs going around. You had the tree thing, and then you had people looking at mountain scapes. And it looks like a titan creature lying on its back. And you can see the outline of the face and everything.

[00:36:54] I was like, "Okay, that's cool, but let's see it from lots of different angles. Let's see it up close and personal." Are there caves there where the eye sockets should be? What does it look like inside the cave? Is there anything that matches anatomy inside the cave? And there was none of that.

[00:37:12] I thought the images were compelling, but there's no follow-up. There's no in-depth analysis. So I'm looking on Google Earth, and there were 10 different features. The head shape is correct. The eye is located correctly. There was a quarter moon-shaped discoloration on the mountain where it looked like an ear would've been removed.

[00:37:40] And then where the head meets the shoulders on both sides of the mountain, it curves in there. And then you have what appears to be a spine, what appear to be rib cage, and a big, deep canyon between where the legs would be, which I had climbed up many times and never pondered I might be an ant on some gigantic creature.

[00:38:00] And so after that first foray into Google Earth, I had a laundry list of 10 different anatomical correlations on the macro. And I was like, "This is crazy." Already it was getting weird because I loved play game of games of chance. Backgammon is one of my favorite games. And I know what odds are.

[00:38:23] The odds of seeing a mountain that looks like a face, that's not very high. If you've got a active imagination, you're artistic minded. But when you start adding to the list and you have specificities, it gets less and less likely that what you're looking at is pareidolia.

[00:38:42] There's another term called apophenia, which is similar to  pareidolia, but it's recognizing a pattern that doesn't exist. And we'll talk about that in a little bit further on with some of the other discoveries that I made. But that's this idea that you're looking for connections. And then you start to make connections, but you're just tricking yourself, and you're bending over backwards to make things fit in with your idea.

[00:39:09] That's apophenia. So I was aware of these concepts from the very first video, and as a chiropractor, I wasn't eager to come out and say, "Hey, I think that mountain, there might have once been a giant creature that's three miles long and a mile tall. It doesn't look good.

[00:39:26] And so I was very cautious about how I approach things. And from the first video, I was already introducing these concepts to people and saying, this is what people will say. They'll say I'm cherry picking my information. They'll say I'm suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect because I don't know anything about geology because I have no formal training.

[00:39:46] And what is formal training really? We're talking about peer review is the highest form of this academic conquest for truth. And yet it's inherently flawed because peer review is in and of itself an appeal to authority where people who already have maybe a vested interest in a narrative, because they're professors and they have tenure, are the ones deciding which ideas have merit or don't and which ones get in or don't.

[00:40:17] So I'm not a big fan of much of academia because it's just rote memorization or regurgitation. And there's almost no cross disciplinary pollination when it comes to different ologies, let alone compartmentalization within a particular academia. So you've got compartmentalization in the corporate structure, in the military structure, in the intelligence agency structure, and then you've got peer review, and it's like, oh, if you come out, 30 years ago, with an idea that went against Einstein's bending of space time, you had no hope of getting any funding or--

[00:41:01] Luke: I think that right there, just to bookmark where you work because we're on a good track here, but I think when it comes to questioning ideas that are so deeply ingrained and so big, that's one of the things that we really are up against because the counter would be, well, how could everyone be in on it?

[00:41:27] If there are some controllers of information or people that are propagating massive scale psyops, it's like, well, my uncle's a biologist or a geologist or quantum physicist. It's like, they're not a bad person.

[00:41:41] Mike: How could so many people be wrong?

[00:41:42] Luke: Yeah, they're not a liar. And it's like the compartmentalization and the peer middle structure of information. Plus, what you mentioned, the siloed areas of study and expertise, people that are credentialed within their own compartmentalized system, they're not even touching the compartmentalized system next to them and next to them and so on. So it makes sense that these falsehoods proliferate and continue on in perpetuity because there's really no way out of the box until people like you and people like me and other--

[00:42:19] Mike: And it's not always an agenda at play. Oftentimes it is. There's a wonderful line. If they can get you asking the wrong questions, it doesn't matter what your answers are.

[00:42:29] Luke: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:42:30] Mike: And the they, who's the they in that sentence? They. But I think that most of the people that-- say geologists. There's probably tens of thousands if not more. And they're highly educated. Most of them, I think they completely believe the things that they're saying, and they have good intentions, and they're good people.

[00:42:54] There are probably some who are gatekeepers and are pushing false narratives knowingly. But I coined the term paradigm blindness because that's the answer to how. How can so many people be wrong for so long?

[00:43:09] Luke: You coined that?

[00:43:10] Mike: Well, I looked on Google and nobody else had been using it when I started using it.

[00:43:14] Luke: Because I love that term.

[00:43:15] Mike: Yeah. And it's so applicable in so many instances because that's exactly what's happening, is we are turning our eyes away from the obvious. Maybe from our sensory experience, from our visual experience, our empirical experience of reality, because we've been taught that those things that we're experiencing couldn't possibly be true, so we're blinded by our paradigm.

[00:43:38] Heliocentrism is a perfect example of this. They make all of these unsubstantiated claims, and then that just becomes the narrative, and that's pushed. And then it's worked into all the Hollywood movies and television shows, and you're bombarded constantly with it. And people don't like to have their ball taken away, obviously.

[00:43:57] Luke: On that note, you just think about the way Hollywood and the media work, we see a movie like Avatar, which has some really deep meaning. It really affected people on a deep level because there's something I think innate in us that gets that--

[00:44:15] Mike: Did you cry when the tree came down?

[00:44:17] Luke: I don't remember. I'm pretty tough, so probably not. I don't remember. But it's just this archetypal saga. And on some level, many human beings really resonate with that. But speaking of paradigm blindness, it's still in this spherical planetary model, right?

[00:44:37] Mike: Right.

[00:44:37] Luke: So it's like--

[00:44:39] Mike: Yeah. So that gets into the truth in plain sight. Is this a tip of the hat to the real history, the real truth, or is it just some unconscious, like you said, archetypal experience that's ingrained in all of us that there's a part of this that feels the loss of that world, but maybe that world was actually this world in a previous era?

[00:45:01] Right. And that's the conclusion that I've come to. I believe that the reality is fractal in nature. I was a big fan of the Talbot book, Holographic Universe years ago. I read that, and it just resonated with me. Because when you look at microscope or macroscope, we see the same repeating themes.

[00:45:21] And when we look at how water flows, all of these things are following the same patterns, so I have no problem whatsoever with, if we're this big, there might have been another era where things were a fractal level up. What would two fractal levels up look like?

[00:45:37] Luke: Look at the nervous system of a gopher next to the tree structure of a mighty redwood. Pretty close. That might be a bad example, but you get the point. It's like everything is really just repeated patterns over and over again at varying degrees of scale.

[00:45:58] Mike: Yeah, definitely. And that gives us clues about how things work also. And so I think we, moderns, especially people in the western world, we grow up with all these beliefs about the nature of the universe. And then the other stuff is relegated to fiction, legend, myth, fairytale folklore, or religious texts, which also fall into those categories.

[00:46:29] But yet they were all singing the same tune. It was a cosmic egg model. We were on a topographically flat plane in some enclosure, whether it's an energetic or a physical barrier. And things were a lot bigger back then. And like I said, megaflora and megafauna also acknowledged by mainstream geology.

[00:46:47] So the question is, if you start getting into questioning the nature of the realm, you don't have to assert a shape. You don't have to know ultimately what it is to start to know what it isn't. And if you start to know what it isn't, then that should open your mind to the possibility that maybe there are far more lands further out. We don't know what the heck's going on under the ocean. We don't know if the earth is hollow. Can you go in? There's all kinds of stuff that we can't answer.

[00:47:13] Luke: Why have we not been able to drill past, what is it, 7.4--

[00:47:16] Mike: Eight miles.

[00:47:17] Luke: Eight miles?

[00:47:17] Mike: And that took them 20 years, and they were using all kinds of different technology to try and predict what was coming, and they were constantly wrong. So we're supposed to just believe their stories about the earth is 8,000 miles in diameter, 4,000-mile radius. They're talking about molten spinning cores that are giving rise to our magnetic field, which is silly because if you melt a magnet to liquid, it loses its coherence. It's no longer magnetic.

[00:47:41] Luke: Oh, really? Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

[00:47:45] Mike: But if you take that eight miles, that's not even the skin on an apple, for a 4,000-mile radius. And yet our school books are filled with these animated photographs of cross sections of the earth and the mantle and all this stuff, and it's just propagated as fact in that this has all been discovered and figured out long ago. And I think most of that is just complete bullshit at this point.

[00:48:16] Luke: That fact that humankind has not been able to go any deeper than that eight miles, I'm sure you've seen the video where, I don't know-- I guess he was in a submarine-- a diver gets down to a certain level at the ocean and essentially hits a barrier.

[00:48:34] Mike: Hits a lake under the ocean. Yeah.

[00:48:36] Luke: Yeah.

[00:48:37] Mike: He died a couple of weeks or something after that video came out.

[00:48:41] Luke: That's curious.

[00:48:43] Mike: Yeah.

[00:48:43] Luke: And also there's a video of a rocket going up, and I think the camera's like on top of it, and it goes, kunk boink.

[00:48:52] Mike: Yeah. It makes this sloshing sound.

[00:48:55] Luke: Yeah.

[00:48:55] Mike: And then it just falls back down to the earth, but that's called the GoFast rocket. And that is a very interesting bit of footage.

[00:49:07] Luke: Incredible. Just a little tangent here, but based on that, whatever people think the shape of the planet is, and I really don't care what anyone else thinks or believes. Good for you whatever you're into. But it seems to be, based on those couple of observations, that we're in an enclosed system-- a pressurized enclosed system that has some magnetic or energetic barrier that contains the whole thing. Because there's no proof of getting down or out. And then you have Antarctica, the treaty 1959. Every single--

[00:49:49] Mike: Got to save the penguins and the ice. It's the most important thing.

[00:49:52] Luke: Every single country on earth that has supposedly been adversarial and at war for--

[00:49:58] Mike: Also the spacefaring nations.

[00:50:00] Luke: Yes. Hundreds of years--

[00:50:01] Mike: Because if space is fake and they fake the moon landing everything, that means all of the countries that are also supposedly going to space are in collusion on the lie. So that changes our understanding of the topographical landscape, of the geopolitical relationships of nations.

[00:50:18] Luke: Right. Interesting.

[00:50:19] Mike: That's a very big puzzle bit. So Russia and the US, the Cold War and all that, if they're all faking it and nobody's exposed to it, and they continue to, that tells you some very interesting things.

[00:50:33] Luke: That takes the compartmentalization of truth to a much higher level. If all these countries are just plain-- if it's like WW--

[00:50:45] Mike: Plain space.

[00:50:46] Luke: Yeah. If it's like wrestling-- you know what I mean? If it's that fake, and they've all agreed--

[00:50:51] Mike: It's about that stupid, actually, when you get into the footage and all the green screen glitches and other stuff. It's like, you might as well be watching WW--

[00:51:00] Luke: Who is the shot caller above the supposed leaders of these different countries that is dictating the rules about how far we can go out into the sea until we reach Antarctica? The Antarctica thing for me is that's the clincher.

[00:51:18] Mike: 60 degrees South.

[00:51:19] Luke: That's the clincher for me though, is like, why? Who said that? Who made up this arbitrary rule? And of course, there's reasoning for it, the penguins and whatever. And it's like, oh, to protect the environment? Says the people who are blanketing the entire planet in chemicals every day, 24/7 all over the world. And I don't know if nuclear weapons are real, but they're definitely destroying the environment on every front through warfare and industrialization. Oh, those people want to protect the penguins? That's why we can't go to Antarctica? Come on, people.

[00:51:51] Mike: Well, if we go back to the avatar thing-- oh, what was I going to say about it? We have this narrative of these great trees, and if the realm is much larger, then maybe it's not so farfetched that the trees were once that big. And I've actually traveled with a guy who's done amazing research on this.

[00:52:17] I went to the Black Hills of South Dakota with him and saw a number of sites up close and personal with my own eyes. And it's undeniably tree, but we're talking about trees that are miles wide. Maybe even 50 to 100 miles wide, which is a scale that we can't fathom. And in the mainstream scientific narrative, we're taught that that's impossible because they would collapse under their own weight because of gravity.

[00:52:43] Luke: The theory of gravity.

[00:52:45] Mike: The theory of gravity. Exactly. And also, this would be true of titans as well, that they couldn't be that big because their bones wouldn't be able to support them. But when you start getting into the theory of gravity, you find out that it's also on flimsy ground. And that other things like density and buoyancy and static electricity make a lot more sense and actually explain our observed phenomenon without the need to invoke a hypothetical theory of gravity.

[00:53:15] Because the supposed strong force of gravity is one value, which I don't recall, but the static force, like if you rub a balloon against your head-- and I want to get back to the balloon in a second because we were talking about gas pressure before-- if you rub a balloon and it sticks to your head, you can pull it off and you can stick it to the wall.

[00:53:36] That force that's holding those two objects together is 10 to the 36th stronger than the strong force of gravity. That's a number with 36 zeros behind it. They don't talk about that. And you could spend hours and hours and hours just talking about gravity itself, but when it comes to gas pressure, if we are inside of an enclosure, which all the ancients believed, and they believed in titans and they believed in gigantic trees as well.

[00:54:07] It's only our moderns that are like, "No, that's a stupid idea." If I blow up a balloon and I let it go, it's going to fly around the room rapidly as the gas pressure normalizes. If I blow it up and I tie it and I poke a hole in it, it's going to explode because that gas pressure just immediately disperses.

[00:54:28] So there's no scientific experiment that can be performed here, where you can have gas pressure next to a vacuum without a barrier. It's not possible. That would be like a pressurized the gas that's in the balloon. Now I remove the balloon, and it stays pressurized. It just doesn't make any sense.

[00:54:50] Luke: Right. It's like taking a can of spray paint and expecting the paint to just remain in a cylinder and just be held there by magic.

[00:54:58] Mike: Exactly, exactly. That's the second law of thermodynamics, apparently.

[00:55:05] Luke: Yeah.

[00:55:05] Mike: And yet we're told that our atmosphere sticks to the earth as it is adjacent to a vacuum that has a 10 to the negative 17 tor value, which is a huge number as well. And yet the spacesuits never expand. And we are sending up rockets, which are supposedly-- oh, and the reason it doesn't go away, they tell us, is because of a gravitational gradient that as you get further and further from the earth, it gets weaker and weaker.

[00:55:35] And then there's this magic Goldilock zone at 250 miles where the ISS goes around the earth perpetually falling, according to Einsteinian gravity. So even if you bought that delicate equilibrium of the gravitational gradient, we're still sending rockets out. So what happens when you poke a balloon with a pin? We're sending a rocket out into space. Wouldn't that disrupt that delicate equilibrium?

[00:56:04] There's all these things that we're just taught to accept as truth and fact. But when you start to just think about them logically, they don't make any sense. And one last thing with gravity, because that's how they talk about the trees and titans couldn't have existed because they were too big and they'd collapse under their own weight, that's something known as the-- what is it? The square cube law of gravity.

[00:56:32] That as you double the diameter of an object, you're increasing the volume exponentially. So if I go to an earth that's twice as big, we see way too far. There's infrared photography where observations are being made 500, 600 miles away, which categorically destroys the ball that's the size they tell us because there's no atmospheric occlusion when-- well, there's very little when you're looking with infrared. So all that bendy light and refraction and all that stuff goes out the window when you're looking at that kind of distance photography.

[00:57:07] Luke: So then when you're looking across, is it Lake Erie in Chicago? Is that the lake there?

[00:57:14] Mike: Yeah, yeah.

[00:57:14] Luke: I've seen people.

[00:57:16] Mike: What you're seeing here is a mirage.

[00:57:17] Luke: Yeah.

[00:57:18] Mike: And that was disproven categorically by Rob Skiba and Rick Hummer, who took a boat across the lake while training the camera on the Chicago skyline. They went across the lake with the boat and could see the skyline the whole time. So this mirage or [Inaudible] all that stuff, no, that's not the case.

[00:57:43] Luke: Oh, we got a link to that by the way. We'll put our show notes at lukestorey.com/rocks. I want to put a bunch of your links and work in there as well, but I want to see that video. Because those, to me, the seeing too far, I'm done right there. I don't even need to theorize about the rest of it. It's just like, well.

[00:58:03] Mike: And so then a lot of people--

[00:58:04] Luke: One of two things is happening. The whole thing is a lie, or this shit is a giant magical water ball that is way, way, way, way, way larger than we've been told. Because that's the only way you could see that far. It's just very basic--

[00:58:17] Mike: And it can't be in their model because it's a game breaker for them. Because if we increase the diameter, we've increased the volume dramatically, which means that our gravitational pull is going to be much, much greater. So if the earth is a lot bigger than they tell us, then they're not going to be able to do all their trajectory computations to land rovers on Mars.

[00:58:43] Luke: Ah, okay.

[00:58:43] Mike: Which is all CGI, anyway. They never actually show you any real footage of anything. So that, right off the bat, if you go, "Oh, well, maybe--" Because a lot of people when confronted with this, the observations, they're like, "Oh, maybe it's just bigger." Or, "No, it's just so big, you can't fathom how big it is." No, but I know geometry. It was one of my favorite subjects in school, and I know that if I do a trajectory from the top of the ball, the ball's going to fall away at a greater and greater rate depending on how far away from it you get.

[00:59:13] So if you have something that's bigger, you've increased the volume dramatically, which means you're changing all the gravitational pull. So it has to be the size that they're telling us. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to do all of their tricks of landing things in different places.

[00:59:29] Luke: Right. So that's foundational to the entire premise. And so if you alter that one variable and say, "Oh, whoops." Then the entire--

[00:59:38] Mike: It's a house of cards.

[00:59:38] Luke: Okay, got it.

[00:59:39] Mike: Almost all the ologies are a house of cards. That's the conclusion I've come to. Don't take my word for it.

[00:59:43] Luke: I'm sitting there thinking, what am I going to name this episode? I wanted to talk about giant trees and animals and stuff, but I think it's going to be called something like, what if everything you've ever been told is a lie or something.

[00:59:54] Mike: Paradigm blindness.

[00:59:55] Luke: Paradigm blindness.

[00:59:56] Mike: So going back to the mountain and the big trees, it start as this, what if. And then being really left brain and analytical, I'm intuitive also. I've got an artistic side to me, but I like to think a lot. And so I decided, well, if there's any truth to this, I'm going to get out my anatomy books, and I'm going to start looking online and see if I can find elephant skulls online. And I did. I found an actual HD or four cave footage of a guy walking around an elephant skeleton.

[01:00:33] So I was able to see the skull from all of the different angles. And then I started looking at-- our skulls have a structure. And even though the shape of skulls change dramatically among mammals, the bones are similar. They just change form. So the eye socket is actually made of seven different bones that meet.

[01:00:55] And those meeting points are called suture lines. The bone doesn't grow together. They're sitting next to each other. And then you have fissures, like where the optic nerve goes. That's a bigger opening. And so I'm like, "If there's any truth to this hair-brained idea, then there should be some anatomical features inside the cave."

[01:01:16] And I'd been there many times before and always marveled over how weird the place was. How does this form? It's like 375 meters. Sorry, I don't know what that is in yards now. I've been in Europe too long. But it's high up, and it's just this whole mountain is sitting. It's not part of a chain. It's just jutting upward and everything around it is flat.

[01:01:36] And then the Mediterranean is right there, and then there's this apparent eye socket. And I was just like, "This is too weird." And even when I was in it before ever getting on these ideas, I was thinking it was weird. And I didn't understand geologically how that could form with tectonic activity, pushing the layers upward.

[01:01:58] So I got out my anatomy books, and I started making a list of like, this is what I would expect to find if there was any truth to this in the cave. And then I went up there, and I was blown away because I found 10 different anatomical features. Some of them were highly specific.

[01:02:18] The two initially that blew my mind was we have a hole here in our maxilla bone. It's called the infra, below. Orbital, eye. Foramen, hole. The hole below the eye. And we've got blood vessels and nerves that go there. Well, on an elephant, it's here. And on an elephant whose head is tilted back because it's on its stomach, it would be in front of the eye socket.

[01:02:46] And I'm looking on Google Earth, and there was the cave, the main eye cave. And then there was another cave going perpendicularly off in that exact place. I did a video series called Unveiling a Titan. And in the fifth video, I used a photograph looking through that as the thumbnail so people can get a visual for what I'm talking about. And as I went up there, I'm like, "This is looking extremely organic, extremely biological." It doesn't look like something that happened through some erosion process."

[01:03:21] And then another very specific one is here and here. In the eye socket, there's a meeting point, and there's a line here between the frontal bone and the maxilla. And that line goes back into the eye socket on both sides. And I got in the cave, pointing at that direction, and there's a line, and I show it with the elephant skull as well.

[01:03:47] So everything that I'll talk about in the rest of this conversation, there is visual evidence for, and a lot of empirical evidence. And a lot of times it is specific, it is scalable, and it is, let's see, what is it? Specificity, scalability, repeatability with a lot of this stuff.

[01:04:09] And so there's a line that goes right there, and it's not a crack in the cave. It's actually an overlapping of two different rocks. So that was when it started to get twilight zone for me. Because after that first visit to the cave, I was already up to a list of about 20.

[01:04:29] Luke: Wow.

[01:04:30] Mike: Yeah.

[01:04:30] Luke: And using your analytic capacity, where do we get in terms of statistically throwing dice--

[01:04:38] Mike: Possible.

[01:04:39] Luke: Really?

[01:04:39] Mike: Yeah. If you're throwing dice, it's like double sixes, one in 36 odds. If you throw them again, far lower odds three times in a row. So that's the question, is how many coincidences does it take before it might actually be a real pattern, that it's a possibility?

[01:05:00] And then when does it become a plausibility, and when does it become just fact or an inevitability? In the years that I've been doing this research on just the mountain alone, there's over 50 anatomical correlations, and I've gone with microscopy. I've gone macro. I've gone micro.

[01:05:22] It's absolutely astounding because, if I'm wrong, it's almost weirder. Because then it's almost like the universe or the matrix, the construct, whatever we're in, is colluding to alter reality in a way that gets me going down all these rabbit holes and then coming to the wrong conclusions. To me, that's almost strange.

[01:05:48] Luke: Or the creator just has a really wild sense of humor-- is just making replicas of patterns all over the place just for the fun of it.

[01:05:57] Mike: Right. The maxim "as above so below" is so overused.

[01:06:03] Luke: What about fossils and petrification? Is that the word?

[01:06:10] Mike: Yeah.

[01:06:11] Luke: It seems like there's a lot of things that don't add up in that realm too, just the speed with which something, say, that's a tree made of wood and becomes stone, and there's all kinds of data to support that that happens. But when you start to put it under some scrutiny, it seems to fall apart quite easily too.

[01:06:31] Mike: Yeah. The dating techniques, like carbon dating's only said to be accurate to thousands of years, not tens of thousands or millions. And it gets extremely inaccurate. And people have taken things that they know to be young in for analysis and gotten really, really big dates. And each one of the different dating techniques has been hotly contested as it's been introduced by critics.

[01:06:54] So then eventually something just becomes dogma and accepted as like, this works and this is how we-- DNA testing, for example. It's like, what is DNA? What do we really know about it? And these are just things that you can start to question. And I threw myself off with a DNA comment.

[01:07:16] Luke: The fossils, I'm thinking of, just the other day I was at a ranch in Texas, and there was a big, I don't know, piece of, maybe is limestone, and there's like a giant snail imprint in it.

[01:07:26] Mike: Right. So fossils do exist. And that's interesting that you mentioned limestone and fossils because we will come back to that in a little bit. But when it comes to the dating thing, we're told 200 to 300 million years for petrified trees. That's a timeline that you can't prove it. You can't go back in time. You can't witness it. It's happening over this timeframe that we can't even begin to fathom. We, who live max a hundred years.

[01:07:57] And so that process is called permineralization, which is a fancy term for, whatever surrounded the wood has infused itself into the wood while the gas and the water has worked its way out. And we're told that takes place over hundreds of millions of years.

[01:08:16] It's absolutely absurd. That may also happen. I doubt it. But you can make petrified wood in a laboratory that's indistinguishable from naturally occurring petrified wood in 24 hours. Scientists have done it. You give it an acid bath. Then you heat it to 1,400 degrees and then you introduce, I think, argon gas or something.

[01:08:43] And when it cools down, it is indistinguishable from naturally occurring petrified wood. Some other scientists went in Japan. They dropped seven bits of wood into volcanic waters that were hot with high mineral content. And those pieces of wood, they extracted one each year.

[01:09:06] And by the seventh year, it was fully petrified. So if something can fully petrify in seven years, why are we invoking unprovable timelines of 200 to 300 million years? Mount St. Helen's, when it erupted, it had these slurry flows that, in a matter of hours, created 30 feet high sedimentary layering with micro layers, which is usually in indicative of these gradual changes seasonally over time. There's your micro layering. No, that happened in hours.

[01:09:40] Luke: Wow.

[01:09:41] Mike: And when you talk about fossils in layer, we've got these sedimentary layers, and the further down you go, the older it is, and they give them all these fancy names, Pleistocene, Jurassic, etc. Those, you get into circular reasoning where they tell you how old the layer is because of the fossils they're finding in it.

[01:10:02] And then when you ask them how old the fossils are, they'll tell you because of the layer that it's in. So going back to limestone, because that's an interesting topic, because limestone is what this mountain is made out of, limestone is calcium carbonate. Bone is calcium carbonate.

[01:10:23] So the official story on limestone is that it comes from bone. How does that happen? Shellfish, mollus, coral, endo, exoskeleton have all died off and been compressed for hundreds of millions of years, and it's led to these thick limestone layers. Now, there's most multiple different kinds of limestone. There's what you described, which is a fossil in the limestone.

[01:10:51] If you go to Coral Castle in Florida, it's made of a type of limestone called coquina. And coquina, with a naked eye, you can see shell, skeleton, all of these different bits of bone that are in some kind of a binder, and it's a naturally occurring like cement that has crushed all these things together.

[01:11:14] And that's one type of limestone. And I was criticized early on when I started presenting these theories because a geologist was like, "You're an idiot. You can see the sedimentary layering. And if you just looked at the limestone with your naked eye, you would see that it's got these fossil remains in it."

[01:11:32] And I was like, it doesn't though. I've been walking this mountain for eight years. I've never once seen a fossil in any of the limestone. So that's one type of limestone. But this is another type of limestone. And it's got multiple very interesting features. One is, if you look at our long bones, you have what's known as cortical bone, which grows layers of tree.

[01:11:53] And it has very little vascularity, which is the holes where the blood vessels go. Because if it had too many, it'd be too porous, and we would just break really easily. So you have these long bones, and then inside the long bones where the bone marrow is, where the red blood cells are produced, it's called trabecular bone.

[01:12:10] And it looks like Swiss cheese. And if you look at it under a microscope, it's fractal. So what you have is like a hole, and then it bifurcates. And then that bifurcates again, like a tree or like our lungs would do. So these two kinds of limestone are what Montgó is comprised of.

[01:12:32] You've got the layering, and then you've got all of these chunks. And I've got tons of footage for this on my channel. And they're these big blocks of limestone that have all these holes going through them. Now, we're told those holes are formed. They start as rivulets from acid rain that start to work their way into cracks.

[01:12:52] And then those cracks expand and get broader. But you never see any partially finished ones. They're always like, it's not a perfect circle. Interesting. It's going into the limestone like Swiss cheese. But here's the important thing, because that narrative of water erosion is debunked just by the observation. They bifurcate.

[01:13:14] So they are literally going off in other directions, like 90 degrees. So you've got water that's supposedly coming through and eroding, and then it's just going to make a right angle turn and erode in that direction as well and create a smaller and smaller channel. Or are we looking at something that's biology?

[01:13:30] And that's when I coined the term biogeology. Because I wanted to distinguish between the things that I was finding that might have some truth to them and the official narratives about how things form. Petrogenesis, the formation of bone. So biogeology is actually a term that's used in science to describe the exchange between the asthenosphere or whatever, I can't remember the name of it, where we live, where plant life and animal life lives, and the lithosphere, and this exchange of materials.

[01:14:01] It's very little used term, and it's a very niche. So I stole the term. I appropriated it because I wanted to have a term to distinguish between the mainstream narratives and a far more direct connection between biology and geology, which is that thing you're looking at was a piece of a larger creature at one time.

[01:14:27] So then I started looking closer at these limestone, the Swiss cheese ones, and first of all, the whole plateau of where the heads swoops down into where a trunk would've been, that whole plateau is covered with this Swiss cheese limestone, and it's red earth. And that red earth is often found in these channels.

[01:14:53] And I thought, okay, that could have been deposited by a mud flood. You were talking about mud floods and star forts and Tartary and all this stuff. It all starts to dovetail and link together in incredible ways. The red earth was found inside these channels. I once found a block of stone that was as big as a car, and the corner had broken off, and you could see the part that was broken because it was on the ground below, and it exposed channels. And out of those channels was coming red earth. Hmm. So we've got our red blood. We've got our blood.

[01:15:29] Luke: Iron oxide.

[01:15:31] Mike: So you've got red earth iron ore all over. And oftentimes the iron ore is inside the channels. Then you have quartz crystal all over the mountain. And sometimes that quartz, and I've shown this in videos, is actually lining the channels like a blood vessel. So I came up early on with the theory that anything that--

[01:15:54] Luke: This shit is nuts, dude.

[01:15:55] Mike: Yeah. Anything that is fat can petrify to varying types of quartz, depending on what the original material was, depending on how it was petrified, and what maybe it was mixed with. You're going to have an infinite variety of potential outcomes. It could be infused with a fungal or bacterial thing. Maybe it was in a state of decomposition.

[01:16:17] So to say this is a settled science, it's anything but. It's just like, if there's any truth to these things, then it's a nascent science that's just being born, and we have to start trying to figure out what were things, and what the heck is going on. So the quartz is fascinating because this ties back into the trees also.

[01:16:41] My theories early on was anything fat will petrify to quartz. So ligament, tendon, disc, brain, eye. The sclera of the eye is fatty and white. Come back to that in a minute as well. And then I'm finding this quartz all over the mountain, sometimes in channels with the iron ore.

[01:17:05] So all of the components of bone and blood are there on the mountain. And the mainstream geological narrative is that limestone is made out of calcium carbonate. That it's actually bone. So they're telling us it's bone. They're just not telling us that maybe that was bone of a much bigger type.

[01:17:26] Luke: Right. Not 2 billion shellfish or something.

[01:17:30] Mike: Right. And that would've debunked my theory. And I was aware of that. So I got a microscope. Initially, it was a 60X microscope, just to look closer to see if I could find any hints of shellfish or mollusk or any-- oh, I wasn't flight mode. It's them. They're listening.

[01:17:57] So with 60X, I couldn't find a trace of any of it. And I'd been hiking that mountain for eight years. This geologist who was criticizing me. I was like, "Dude, you're wrong." And so then I was like, "Okay, maybe it's just so minute." But still you would think you would see some little bone sticking out or something like you did, that fossil.

[01:18:19] So I got a 1,000X microscope. They have these Wi-Fi microscopes now that you can use with a phone. It's just phenomenal because it's wireless, and they're 50 bucks. So anyone who's got teenage kids or even younger, buy them these things because they can start to go and explore the world.

[01:18:38] They won't want to play video games. They'll want to go check out stuff. So yeah, I went out, and with a 1,000X microscope, no hint of any of those things. So that's interesting because I was aware that if I find this limestone has got all of these broken fragments of other stuff, then clearly it wasn't a Titan.

[01:18:59] Because I don't believe for a second that some Titanic creatures, it's going to consume those things and assimilate that material to make its bone, but its bones aren't going to be comprised of that stuff. So I knew when I went out with that microscope, I might be debunking this whole thing that I've been working on. And it didn't work out that way. I actually debunked the official narrative on limestone, at least that particular limestone, which they call karst, which is said to be formed by rivulets. And it's not.

[01:19:32] Luke: What other concrete examples are there in terms of living beings, outside of the giant trees? If it was just the giant trees, that is already very interesting, if not mind blowing.

[01:19:48] Mike: People, they've seen my work, and they're 1,000% convinced of the things that I'm talking about. I am still reserving doubt. I've acquired over 50 anatomic and histological correlations with the mountain. And I could be wrong, but what I'm 100% confident about is the big trees.

[01:20:10] And I've seen sites on with my own eyes. And I've got lots of amazing footage on my channel. If people can go back to July on my channel and I've got-- if they don't have a lot of time, I've got 12 clips that are under two minutes.

[01:20:28] Luke: July, 2024?

[01:20:30] Mike: Yeah, this last year.

[01:20:31] Luke: Okay, got it.

[01:20:32] Mike: Yeah. I toured with a guy. His channel is called Hangman 1128, friend of mine named Mike. And he started on his journey about the same time I started on mine with the mountain. And he has been showing evidence of the big trees for seven, eight years now that is incredible. And so we traveled together for a week, and he took me to the best sites that he's found over the last seven years.

[01:20:57] And I got to see all the best stuff, and I got lots of great footage. So I challenge anyone to look at that footage, those short videos, which is the creme de la creme. I've got long presentations as well correlating and comparing and everything. But just see those sites. And if you don't deny your eyes, you'll realize that what you're looking at is true.

[01:21:23] Luke: Monument Valley in Utah, to me is super obvious.

[01:21:27] Mike: Stumpy. It's very stumpy, isn't it?

[01:21:29] Luke: Something's up with that.

[01:21:30] Mike: I think that was probably the first thing and places like Sedona and Garden of the Gods. We're talking about trees that-- like the Sequoia National Forest, General Sherman, the biggest tree in the world, that would've been a sapling, a little tiny sapling next to the real trees.

[01:21:49] And I have no doubt that they existed. And this ties back to quartz also. Because just like fat may petrify to varying kinds of quartz, sap also petrified to quartz. Now, we're told in the mainstream narrative that petrified sap is amber. But it really doesn't make any sense if you think about it because amber is a 2.5 on the hardness scale. So Diamond is a 10. That's the hardest substance we know of.

[01:22:19] And amber is so soft that you can dent it with your fingernail. So does that seem petrified to you, or maybe oxidized hardened from exposure to air? And then we get our Jurassic Park narratives where they've extracted the DNA from the mosquito that somehow managed to penetrate the skin of a dinosaur to get its blood. And we're going to clone the dinosaurs based on that. That's the whole Jurassic Park narrative. But I think that that's just hardened sap. It's not petrified. But petrified sap, in my mind, is quartz.

[01:22:58] Luke: Cookie got excited about that one.

[01:23:00] Mike: Yeah. So you can see this with your own eyes. There'll be all this swirling beautiful tree grain, and it's fractal as well. If you held up a piece of something in the forest that was this big, then the equivalent of that in the tree, the same size would be 100 feet wide.

[01:23:23] That's how big we're talking about. Something this big would be 100 feet. And every single aspect from the way it's decomposing to everything is a one-to-one match with tree. But it's on a scale that you can't imagine. And there were a lot of times when I was touring the Black Hills where I'm looking down.

[01:23:41] Because there's all these smaller trees that are decomposing. I'd look at something, I'm like, "Is that wood, or is it stone?" And I could not tell with a naked eye until I reached down and touched it. And a lot of times it was stone when I thought it was wood. So you have to see it to believe it.

[01:24:00] Luke: So I think with the cosmology question, a big one that comes up for people is like, why would they lie?

[01:24:11] Mike: Why the lie?

[01:24:12] Luke: Why the lie?

[01:24:13] Mike: Same thing with earth shape.

[01:24:15] Luke: Yeah. To me, it's like a number of different things make sense. One would be denying the existence of an intelligent creator. That's probably the main one. But then I think also--

[01:24:29] Mike: Spiritual warfare that goes back to origin.

[01:24:33] Luke: But the other one is, for me, rooted in conditioning you to deny your own intuition and innate knowing. If the system can get you to deny empirical evidence that you sense, feel on every level, then every subsequent deception after that that's easier for them to get you to buy is just a cakewalk. It's just like, there's just this cascade of--

[01:25:05] Mike: You're on a spinning ball, but it's so big you can't feel the motion. It curves, but it's so big you can't see the curve. It's like one by one, you're like, they're teaching you to deny your sensory experience.

[01:25:22] Luke: Yeah.

[01:25:22] Mike: The they. But again, when it comes to the why the lie, I think it's a very small percentage of people who are purveying narratives that are actually intentionally misleading people. I think a lot of them are blinded by their paradigm. They maybe have a vested interest in a certain narrative, and so they don't want to look outside and find out they might be wrong about something their whole livelihood is based on.

[01:25:48] There are economic reasons as well. For example, if Titanic trees and Titanic beings were a real thing, then very likely a lot of our novel elements are coming from those creatures or those forms of plant life.

[01:26:02] Luke: Like petroleum?

[01:26:03] Mike: So the periodic table-- like petroleum, like coal. Coal is tree. Opal is tree. There's a whole lot of stuff that is very provably tree.

[01:26:13] Luke: You know what I was thinking about on the way here in preparation for this? I was just thinking about this idea of scarcity of crude oil. And it's been proven enough that it's manufactured scarcity.

[01:26:25] Mike: Peak oil.

[01:26:26] Luke: Yeah. And how many times have we had peak oil? I was thinking about shilajit. Shilajit is this ancient decomposed plant matter that oozes out of these rocks at high altitude. And it's just an incredible fuel.

[01:26:39] Mike: Blood of the earth, maybe.

[01:26:40] Luke: Yeah. It's an incredible fuel. And I thought, oh, interesting. Crude oil is not edible, but it has energy potential, obviously. That's much of our--

[01:26:51] Mike: It's melted dinosaurs. Has anyone ever documented a human body converting to crude oil?

[01:27:01] Luke: So what if these giant trees, in the same way that smaller plants can make shilajit, what if it's the giant trees that have been making all the oil?

[01:27:12] Mike: There was an oil field near my hometown in California that ran for 20 years, and then one day the oil was gone. And it stopped for another 20 years. And then one day I came back to visit my mom years and years later and the whole oil field was going again. So is this just something that the earth is creating? I don't know.

[01:27:31] But there's all kinds of fantastic things to look at. Like you were talking about the submarine that went down and bounced off of that water. Why did it bounce off? Because clearly that water below the submarine was of such a high mineral content that it was too buoyant. It couldn't penetrate into it.

[01:27:48] So high mineral content waters also ties into petrification narratives. I talked about permineralization being this slow exchange of materials over hundreds of millions of years. But I have lots of evidence and scientific experiments that I've come to the conclusion that there's a whole variety of ways that things can petrify.

[01:28:10] They can petrify with heat. They can petrify with electricity. They can petrify with plasma. They can petrify with high mineral content waters, volcanic ash. And each one of these yields a different outcome. There's a cave in England called Mother Shipton's Cave, where people go and hang objects from rope because the water drips down the rope and then it encases the object in mineral layers. And then eventually that penetrates into the object. There's a lake called--

[01:28:38] Luke: I was thinking about that as you were talking, like stalactite, stalagmites. I've been in tons of caves, and there's just water eventually becomes a rock. Dissolved rocks in the water coalesce and become a rock again.

[01:28:53] Mike: They say 50 to 100 years per centimeter or something. Maybe it all goes a lot faster. How would you measure that? You'd have to go back 50 years later and go, "It's two millimeters instead of 10." There's a lake in Tanzania called Lake Natron that has very base waters. So acidity does one thing and the alkaline does another. And it's like 13 on the pH, I think, these waters.

[01:29:26] Luke: Wow. What's the leach? That's crazy caustic.

[01:29:31] Mike: Yeah. The only creatures that can survive it are flamingos, and they don't go swimming in it, but they can walk around in the waters without it hurting them. And there's a photographer who's fished out dead creatures that are on their way to petrifying and positioned them while they were still soft and taken these incredible photographs. That's the high mineral content waters. Then you have peat bogs, which is acidic waters that creatures fall into, and that's really bizarre. Have you ever heard of bog bodies?

[01:30:01] Luke: No.

[01:30:02] Mike: Bog bodies, you can do an image search, but it's gruesome. Fair warning to those who do it. That acidity will dissolve bone and dissolve muscle while preserving the skin, and it preserves the organs. The organs harden. So this ties into some other stuff that we haven't even gotten to yet with my research, the idea that organs can petrify. And isn't it interesting?

[01:30:34] I didn't know about this until two years ago. I'd already been doing this research for five years and someone was like, "Hey, you should check out bog bodies." And I was like, "Bog bodies." And so what you have is a fatty sack, which is the skin, hair still intact, and that sack is filled with hardened organs, and all the bones and muscle are gone.

[01:30:55] Luke: What?

[01:30:56] Mike: Yeah.

[01:30:57] Luke: Oh my God, dude.

[01:30:58] Mike: Which totally tied into like what I was finding, which is all kinds of what I believe to be petrified organs. And I've focused on the hearts because a kidney doesn't have very much specific anatomy that you can-- yeah, you can find lots of kidney-shaped stones. Or they have that little indentation in the middle on one side. But to claim, this was once a kidney, it's a stretch.

[01:31:23] Luke: It's farfetched.

[01:31:24] Mike: But after doing all this research with the mountain, and we could talk for hours just about that obviously, but I started just stepping back and going, "What is geology? What is all of this?" And I put out a request to the creator, like, send me an undeniable example of some petrified soft tissue thing that I couldn't deny. And a few days later, I was in a river bottom, and I found this stone that was about four times the size of a human heart.

[01:32:03] If we hold up our fist, that's about how big our heart is. And this thing was four times that size. And I picked it up, I'm like, "Wow, this is an unusual rock." And it had openings right where an aorta and a vena cava would be, the two biggest blood vessels in our body. And then I started looking at it. Had another opening, which was even more specific where the pulmonary arteries would be.

[01:32:24] And the pulmonary arteries have what's known as an isthmus, where it's this fatty bridge between the two sides of the opening that's shaped like an hourglass. And it had that. And then I noticed that the whole thing was white, but everywhere that the white had been worn away, it was red underneath.

[01:32:41] And so in the course of a few seconds with my background in chiropractic-- I was a big fan of the heart when I was studying it in school-- I noticed there were like eight or nine different anatomical features on this stone after just a few minutes of observation.

[01:33:01] So I lugged this thing back to my office. And then I got out my anatomy books. And over the course of the next couple of weeks, I documented another 5 to 10 features beyond that. And then there were chambers inside of it as well. So I got an endoscopic camera, and I went in. And instead of the chamber being smoothed out by water, like you would expect, it was all bumpy in this really weird way.

[01:33:25] And I didn't understand if it was a heart, how that could be the case. But the inside of the heart is not smooth, like people would think. It has what's known as trabeculae carneae. And there's that word trabecula again, with the limestone. It's that Swiss cheese shape.

[01:33:42] The carneae means flesh. Trabecula carneae, fleshy trabecula. And that's exactly what the inside of the chambers of the heart look like. Well, how would that look if it were to petrify? It might look like bumps. And that's exactly what I saw. So that one stone had over 23 or 24 anatomical features, many highly specific.

[01:34:11] The coronary artery, which is the widow maker, that's the one that people usually die of heart attack from when it gets clogged, that comes out of the front of the heart, and it goes across in a line out to the side. And that's between the atrium and the ventricle on the left side of the heart.

[01:34:29] And it sits in this little thing called the sulcus, which is an indentation. So it comes out and goes along a line. And then below that line on many hearts is this fatty area. Anyone who's actually gotten hearts from a butcher, they know that cardinal fatty area that most hearts will have. This had all of that, the fat, the opening and the sulcus and the aorta and the vena cava exactly where they should be at the top.

[01:34:55] So this is just like, there's no way this could be random chance. This has to be a heart. But I couldn't understand it because I'm like, "Where's the rest of the body?" How did this thing petrify? And why would it petrify in the body but not be of the body? And so using my rational brain, I was like this, "Okay, if this is a real phenomenon, it should be repeatable, scalable, because we have all kinds of different animals, from mice to us, and bigger."

[01:35:29] It should be specific, repeatable, scalable. Those are the important things when it comes to the scientific method. So I went back out in the river bottom like a few days later, and I'm looking for more, and all of a sudden, I start finding there's a pattern in the stones. And I thought, okay, pattern could be because you have a particular kind of stone that has some crystalline matrix and it breaks and cleaves in a particular way, and then that's worn around in the river bottom, and that's why you end up with this shape that looks like a heart, but it's not really a heart.

[01:36:05] And that was early days for me. So I hadn't really gotten the eye yet for recognizing it. But I've got the eye now, and they just jump out at me, and I see them because it doesn't matter whether they're partially buried. Predictability is another one. Scalability, specificity, predictability.

[01:36:23] I've found stones that are half buried, and I can tell which part of the stone I'm looking at, and I can predict the other side of the stone. And then I pull it out of the Earth. I got a video on my channel of me doing exactly that. And it's what I predicted. I shouldn't be able to do that unless there was some truth to the possibility.

[01:36:44] Yeah, the predictability was a wild one for me because-- and also a lot of synchronicity where I'm finding them at specific key moments where I've had a thought, and it's like there is a confirmation to the thought. And it might be in a place where there are no other rocks, and it's just like one of these is just sitting there, a heart stone.

[01:37:10] And then I started making videos on the subject, and people started sending me photos and video clips from around the world. And a lot of the ones they were finding were nicer than the ones I was finding. So that led to this just massive discovery that if it's true, it completely upends major cornerstones of what we know about geology.

[01:37:31] Because we're not taught that a stone has an orientation. That it can have an up. It can have a front. It can have a back. It can have a bottom. We're just told they're broken fragments of larger structure. That tectonic activity has created the mountains. The Himalayas, India slammed into China, and uprising of all this stuff.

[01:37:52] And that's why you get all those layers and everything. But I have so many examples. For people who want to just get a primer course on all this stuff, I have a video called Biogeology 101. It's a 101 course. And there's so many things that have come along in the last years just fall in my lap that I didn't know anything about. And they all dovetail perfectly. They all confirm the existence of the great trees, the possibility of rapid petrification.

[01:38:27] Luke: And the rapid petrification, we would assume that there are cataclysmic events that took place historically-- mud floods, mentioned volcanic ash, fires, cosmic rays, who knows what-- that would be the explanation for this phenomenon. Why do you think, if all of this happened, that very few people are interested in learning about it or understanding? Aside from the paradigm blindness, it's not an area of study, and we have our existing model. We're sticking with that because it's safe.

[01:39:06] Mike: And our experts will tell us that's impossible. They're either supporting the paradigm because they really believe it, or because they're trying to lead people astray. Which gets back to something I started to say before, mining financial stuff.

[01:39:24] There's a friend of mine, Ben, from a channel called The Archivist. He's been cataloging the most incredible newspaper clippings from the mid 1800s, even going back to the 1700s, up to 1910 and '20. And that data's really important because that's when Rockefeller took over the universities, the medical system.

[01:39:46] You've got Hearst with all of his stuff going on. That's when basically the robber barons took over, and they rewrote history. The stuff that he's found, and he's cataloged thousands and thousands of articles, he's got a series called Anomalous America where he is breaking down these articles state by state, and I highly recommend that.

[01:40:06] He started feeding me all of these newspaper articles from 1880 to 1920 that were supporting all the narratives that I was presenting. And I had no idea. And they're talking about it as fact, not theory. People don't realize it. The petrified forests were all over the place.

[01:40:26] They were harvested because they contained silver, gold, copper, and all of the precious materials were in these petrified forests. We're talking large percentages of metals. Now, I don't believe that the trees were growing the metals. They might have been mono atomics, just like we can do colloidal silver and stuff that are free floating in the bloodstream, and then maybe they accumulate when there's a electromagnetic event. And that's why we find gold veins and gold and silver.

[01:41:01] But where do they look for that stuff? They look for it in quartz seams. That's where they're mining. And he's got articles where they're showing $15,000 of silver to the ton was being assayed in these petrified forests. Now, that's a hundred years ago money. That's like $600,000 to the ton in today's money. And these are just spoken of. Matter of fact, I've got loads of visual evidence for this stuff too.

[01:41:34] Luke: I want to just pepper the video for this episode, which there's tons of these. People can go to and look at your video, guys.

[01:41:42] Mike: We can work on the times so that stuff we're talking about, they have visual as well.

[01:41:45] Luke: Yeah. The petrified forest are super cool. I've only been to one. It's near Calistoga in Northern California. And it's a tiny, little place. You bring the kids kind of thing. But super interesting. And I've traveled a bit in my 54 years, and that's the only one I've ever seen anywhere. So I figured maybe there were--

[01:42:08] Mike: Probably because they crunched it up. Because this gets into the mining. If you knew that that was once a tree or that was once a Titan, you've got a huge advantage over someone who believes the sedimentary layering story about where to find the goods, the stuff you really want.

[01:42:26] And then, what was it? The petrified, the assays of copper and silver, and the gemstones as well. Obsidian is from tree. Opal comes from tree. I'm throwing these out there, but I have evidence for the stuff that I'm presenting, both visual and-- with opal, they can grow opals in a laboratory.

[01:42:50] So you're just infusing the wood with silica, and the silica is catching the light of the different layers of the tree. And I've got a video clip of guys who are opal mining, and they're just shoving sticks up into a hole in a cave that they're in. And down comes all of this debris. And among that debris are these little chunks of opal.

[01:43:12] But when you take a step back and you look at it through these eyes, you realize the entire thing is tree. They're just finding a section of it that happened to be infused with the silica. But the layering of everything is all tree. They are literally poking into the sides of what may have been the root structures.

[01:43:31] Luke: Right, right, right.

[01:43:32] Mike: If you go to Patagonia, there are marble caves. If you look at salt mountains or salt mines around the world, and you look through it through biogeology eyes instead of the mainstream narratives, you realize there's all kinds of stuff that you have a hard time explaining with mainstream geological explanations but make perfect sense when you think of it as biology. Like for example, concentric rings. How does layering lead to concentric alternating rings? Like a knot of a tree would have concentric rings.

[01:44:10] Luke: Mm-hmm.

[01:44:11] Mike: There's something called banded iron that goes from one color to another, and then back to the original. And it's alternating color. So even if you believe the sedimentary layering model, how does that make sense that the earth, for millions of years, is going to be going back and forth. Now we're going to do this. Now we're going to do that. Now we're going back. You know what I mean?

[01:44:32] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[01:44:33] Mike: But when you see it all through bio-- and I've got stuff that's just undeniable that--

[01:44:39] Luke: This is wild, dude. Talk to me about dinosaurs. That was one that got me. Because when I was a kid, I spent a lot of time in Colorado and driving to California, going through Utah. I remember a lot of-- I guess they still have a few of them, but there were these dinosaur parks.

[01:44:58] And I was really enamored with dinosaurs like most kids are. And then would go to museums and view what I thought were skeletons of dinosaurs. And as I got older and a little more curious and discerning, found that even if you go to a museum--

[01:45:15] Mike: It's not the real dinosaur.

[01:45:17] Luke: Yeah.

[01:45:17] Mike: They tell you that.

[01:45:18] Luke: It's a replica made of plaster.

[01:45:20] Mike: The bones are fragile, or they might be radioactive, so we can't let you near them. Only the specialist can get near them. And so you got some plaster Paris or some synthetic copy that's actually there.

[01:45:32] Luke: Have you found any verifiable evidence that the mainstream understanding of dinosaurs is real?

[01:45:42] Mike: No. I don't believe it for a second. I think all of the ancient civilizations have giant serpent myths and dragons in the sky, on the ground, underwater. Plumed or not, fire-breathing or not, that's part of our mythological, our legends, our heritage collectively, humanity.

[01:46:08] But no story of dinosaurs until the late 1800s, I think. I've seen documentaries that people have done trying to expose this, but there's so much stuff of-- first of all, giants. We're told those didn't exist, and every time someone finds skeletons, they seem to be disappeared by the Smithsonian or something.

[01:46:31] Or maybe they're just piecing the bones of the giants together to create dinosaur skeletons. I don't know. But it's important to understand that the dinosaur narrative supports big time the heliocentric timeline and also a lot of the fear-based stuff that justifies the expenditures for space.

[01:46:55] Luke: Ah, yes. Like extinction events.

[01:46:58] Mike: The whole reason we got to get off this place is because--

[01:46:59] Luke: Because look at what happened with the dinosaurs. That's crazy.

[01:47:03] Mike: So if you don't have that on the plate, we live in a-- it's manufactured scarcity. We're talking about peak oil. There's some guy that put a bunch of plants into a glass, capped it, and I think one time you took the cap off in 50 years to put in a little bit more water, put it back on. It's a thriving ecosystem. It's a terrarium. Are we in a giant Truman Show? Probably is my take.

[01:47:31] The asteroid might strike and wipe us out. That's why we need to spend trillions of dollars to get to Mars instead of feeding the poor and hungry here. All of those narratives just start to fall apart when you really look at them with a critical eye and examine the footage.

[01:47:52] And unfortunately, the algorithms, back in 2019, Google said to Congress that they were bringing the algorithms that were going to go against the hate speech and against the racist groups and against things like flat earth. They specifically named flat earth. Why is flat earth such a threat? You can talk about aliens probing Uranus all day long, and you'll get promoted on YouTube with millions of followers and views.

[01:48:22] Luke: That is very suspect. I think that's one of the things that piqued my curiosity, is any topics around questioning the cosmology paradigm, If you do a search, you'll find all antithetical views. You won't actually find any proponents of the idea.

[01:48:44] Mike: Right.

[01:48:44] Luke: It's not like they don't exist.

[01:48:46] Mike: Until the algorithms kicked in. Like with flat earth now, if you search for flat earth, you'll get hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos that seem like they're touching on the subject. But it's all narrative control. It's all mocking it. It's appeals to ridicule. It's appeals to authority. There is no actual real flat earth footage there.

[01:49:06] Luke: I know. That's what I'm saying.

[01:49:08] Mike: David Weiss's app is a great way to bypass those algorithms. The Flat Earth Sun & Moon Clock app is a great thing for getting playlists from the real channels that have all been suppressed by the algorithms. When I started making the videos on the mountain, by the time I got to the fourth video-- so the first video is just an overview. People can skip that.

[01:49:33] I would redo that one dramatically. But the second video is all about the eye and all the things I found in the eye. The third video is about the ear, which we haven't even mentioned. I mentioned the discoloration, but there's a cave right in the center of that discoloration. What are the odds?

[01:49:49] And that cave, I had no idea, but it's been excavated and examined by a team of archeologists and anthropologists because there were skeletons up there. There were cave paintings. They went through with 3D cameras. They got 3D footage, both the red blue glasses type where like you're in a 3D movie. But also they did 3D scanning.

[01:50:13] So you've got the entire internal structure of the cave. And it just happens to look like an ear canal. What are the odds? And I didn't know anything about it. It was like, talk about Twilight Zone. I'm seeing this footage going, "What the heck is going on here?" So after I started documenting these things, I went online with a friend who was interviewing me, and I went to go to Google Earth. Like I'd done live several times to show the things, and all of a sudden, the eye had been blocked out, and the ear had been blocked out.

[01:50:46] Luke: What?

[01:50:47] Mike: Yeah.

[01:50:48] Luke: No way.

[01:50:48] Mike: Yeah. And I'm like, "What the heck?" And it wasn't just blocked out. It was blocked out in the weirdest way. So I used Google Earth as a drone because it's a national park. You're not allowed to fly drones there. So I was going really slow with Google Earth to get zooms from far away so I could get close to the mountain or go along the side of the mountain or curl around and see it from these different angles. So I had all that footage from my first videos, and then I get there, and it's different.

[01:51:17] And it's different in the weirdest way where it was just the eye and the ear were blurred out. It looked like it had been done by hand. But if you moved in really close to the mountain, it would slowly open up and then you could see the cave. But if you pulled away, it would close. So what that does now is it makes it so that if you try and pull away and see the big picture of the mountain, you'll see it, but you won't see the eye and the ear.

[01:51:41] It'll just look like a blob that maybe resembles a body in some way, but you don't see the specificity of the eye and the ear. And so the fifth video that I made was called-- I don't remember the title, but it's the fifth in the Unveiling the Titan series, and I'm showing the befores and afters. So anyone who doubts me, I have all the original footage, and I have what it does now. And it's like, hmm.

[01:52:07] Luke: That's so weird.

[01:52:09] Mike: Very interesting. Is it?

[01:52:11] Luke: It's so weird because, I don't know, it's like if-- I know everything we've talked about is going to seem super fringe to a certain segment of listeners or viewers, like, oh, these guys are-- they would've tuned out already. These guys are like totally nuts. So I honor their sovereignty. But it's like if you were just a total kook that was just living in fantasy land, then why would there be any effort to throttle what you can see or not see, or what you're going to show people or not show people? It's just so interesting to me. That makes me more interested in a topic, when it's being suppressed.

[01:52:50] Mike: You're not alone there. There were a bunch of people that were like, "You've had some very compelling evidence that you've presented, but I've been on the fence until now."

[01:53:00] Luke: Right, right, right.

[01:53:02] Mike: They're like, "Now I'm fully convinced." If they're trying to obfuscate things in such an obvious way-- and of course, they can explain it away. They can say, "Oh, it's a rendering glitch of the Google Earth algorithm or whatever." And that's the thing I like to say when I do my presentation. I'm like, "Don't take, anything I say as fact. Everything that I'm presenting is a data point, and no single data point is conclusive of anything."

[01:53:30] And that's true when you're talking about earth shape too. People would argue with me about that. But taken as a whole, do those data points start to interlock, and does it form a tapestry that starts to make sense that's actually based on empirical experience rather than some narrative that we've been taught to believe?

[01:53:52] And so that's where, I think, it starts to really gain momentum, is that everything has lined up perfectly in ways that I never could have imagined. So I'm making these videos about petrified organs, and this guy sent me a beautiful comment, and he said, "My Australian ridgeback died recently, and I love this dog more than anything on earth. And I wanted to honor it." And so he did that by creating a funeral pyre with the hottest burning wood, some kind of oak that is available.

[01:54:29] And it was eight-foot long, six-foot wide, four-foot tall, or something like that. It burned for 36 hours. And when the fire was done, there was a light rain the night before, and it exposed two different kinds of ash. There was the ash of the wood and then there was the ash of the body.

[01:54:51] And they were visually distinct. And sitting on top of the ash of the body that had been exposed by the light rain the night before was the heart. The heart of the dog was the only thing that survived 36 hours of burning. And he said it was hardened. And this was exactly what my theories were about, the heart stones that I was finding, is like, the only way this could be possible-- people were asking me like, "Was this some a sacrificial ritual or something where people were removing the organs?"

[01:55:19] I'm like, "No, I'm finding them tiny. I'm finding them big, everything in between." There wasn't a ritual involved. This is something has destroyed the body and hardened the organs. What is that something? My best guess initially was volcanic activity because of the heat involved. A pyroclastic flow, it reaches temperatures of up to 1,500 degrees Celsius. And the flow of the explosion can reach the speed of sound.

[01:55:51] There's all kinds of petrified wood up at Mount St. Helens, petrified quick. How does that work with the 200, 300-million-year narrative? It's creating sedimentary, layering in hours and petrified wood and in our lifetime? That doesn't work, those two. It's just one thing after another.

[01:56:42] Luke: All right. So got a few minutes left here. It's difficult to know which direction to go, but I feel like we've covered some of the possibilities of what might have happened to create these anomalies, the cataclysmic events and so on. But how did shit get so big to begin with? You know what I mean? And why is it not that way now?

[01:57:11] Something that comes to mind for me is a different pressure, different levels of oxygen or CO2, or the balance of those within the system. You probably have many more ideas on this, but I wanted to ask you, have you considered the levels of deuterium on the planet historically as a possible cause of things shrinking? Because deuterium interferes with energy production.

[01:57:41] And in like ice core drillings and glaciers, ancient glaciers, the deuterium level is much lower. And so now you have a really high 155 parts per million in the ocean, and in our air and in coastal areas, it's much higher. Higher elevations, it's lower. Have you looked into that correlation at all?

[01:58:03] Mike: I haven't, but I heard about deuterium a lot in Portugal last year at the water conference. Because that's something that they're speaking of a lot in relationship to water and health and vitality. And when it comes to gigantism, I would lean more towards something like radium as a possible cause. And all the novel elements like plutonium, uranium, are they really harmful like we're taught or why-- oh, there's so many different narratives around that.

[01:58:41] But when it comes to things being big, pressure, definitely increased oxygen levels will do it. There's experiments that have been done with a guy where he's pressurized a room with cherry tomatoes, and they grew very big and very prolific. There's so many different directions to go with transmutation of elements also.

[01:59:08] There's biological transmutation, which isn't acknowledged by the mainstream scientific narrative because our periodic table of elements is said to come from the heart of stars or can be created in novel laboratories like particle accelerators and nuclear fission and that sort of thing.

[01:59:26] But we produce elements biologically. That's not really recognized in the mainstream narrative. Like a chicken's egg has more calcium in it than the chicken is consuming. And that's not even counting the calcium that's needed for its own bones. And it's producing that every day. So that means that chicken is taking the-- what is it? The different things that are in its diet and is assimilating those and creating calcium for the eggs shell.

[01:59:55] Luke: Really? So it's like bioalchemy.

[01:59:58] Mike: Yes.

[01:59:58] Luke: That reminds--

[01:59:59] Mike: That's a great term actually, bioalchemy.

[02:00:00] Luke: You can have it.

[02:00:01] Mike: I like that. Yeah.

[02:00:02] Luke: It just arrived from the [Inaudible]. That brings me back to the topic of scarcity. We were talking about oil being melted dinosaurs. Oh, this shit, at a certain point, you just got to laugh. But the scarcity of water, the idea of primary water. I'm a spring fanatic, hot springs, cold springs.

[02:00:24] And when you go up to a mountain that's 10,000 feet and find a spring that's producing hundreds of gallons a minute and has been doing so through all of at least recorded history, going back as far as people lived on that land, the idea that that is the result of the hydrological cycle is completely absurd. It seems to me, especially--

[02:00:48] Mike: This ties big time into the trees.

[02:00:50] Luke: Okay, okay. Cool, cool. So I'm like, I feel like we need another couple hours. But anyway. If it was part of the hydrological cycle, a, how did it get from 10,000 feet under that mountain to the top? It's like magically levitating. It's not pressure. It's like levitation. And if you test the water for any surface contaminants, it has none.

[02:01:18] And so to me, this is intuition-- call me crazy-- I feel like planet Earth as the living bean that it is just makes water and makes oil and makes all kinds of stuff, like the chicken makes calcium that's in excess of the calcium it eats. What do you think about primary water? And then lead me into where it goes with the trees.

[02:01:38] Mike: Primary water is super interesting. We talked about the high marrow content waters under the ocean. And the tepuis, which are these plateau mountains, have their endless waterfalls that we're told that it's coming from rainfall. I'm sure the geologists will have some explanation for how that water rises.

[02:01:58] But if you just look at things as they appear to be, and you consider that it might have been a tree, might there be channels through which water would rise? And just like a tree has an electromagnetic propulsion to the water and the sap as it flows through the tree, that could happen on a large scale as well.

[02:02:22] Luke: That's a really good point. There's no pressure in the tree. Just like the idea that--

[02:02:27] Mike: There are loads of examples.

[02:02:28] Luke: The heart's a pump kind of thing. It's like, what's pumping--

[02:02:31] Mike: That's where I wanted to go next, actually.

[02:02:32] Luke: What's pumping liquid into--

[02:02:34] Mike: The heart is not a pump.

[02:02:35] Luke: I know.

[02:02:36] Mike: That's what I'm saying. Because that ties into the heart stones. So there are lots of examples of waterfall trees. Today's size trees with water perpetually coming out of a knot, like a fire hydrant. Places where people have hit one with a machete and it's just gushing with a lot of pressure. So that's a regular today sized tree that's tapping into underground waters, and it's just flowing up. Now, imagine that same tree miles wide.

[02:03:09] How big would those channels have been? And do we have any evidence for channels like that existing? And the answer is a resounding yes. There's a team of guys, they're called the Action Adventure Twins. They have a big YouTube channel, and they do the craziest shit when it comes to spelunking, where they're going down 600-foot caverns that look exactly like the inside of a tree, ironically.

[02:03:34] Luke: Right.

[02:03:35] Mike: And then they're hitting plateaus that snake off in different directions, and then they're finding another thing that goes down. And when you start to look at diagrams of root structures of trees, it looks like that, but on a much, much larger scale.

[02:03:50] So there's literally so many data points that line up perfectly with these crazy theories rather than like, oh, no, there's another one that contradicts the idea. There's another one. It doesn't work that way. The more you dig, the more you find it all seems to be supporting this narrative, which is wild. I never would've imagined it for a second.

[02:04:15] Luke: And for those that might be wondering why should I care? Why do you care?

[02:04:24] Mike: Why do I care? Well, I think if we don't know the nature of what's under our feet, the nature of reality-- people want to talk about love and light and intuition and discernment and everything. But if your understanding of the nature of your reality is based on a bunch of lies, how good is your discernment going to be?

[02:04:44] And your beliefs will create emotion, and then you'll call that emotion intuition, and then it'll cause you to make decisions that might be completely wrong for you. So discernment is the most important thing of all. And understanding the nature of where we are is incredibly important, and where we came from.

[02:05:03] Because those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And history is a set of lies agreed upon, as Napoleon said, who many people don't think even existed. So yeah, it's incredibly important. But it's also important. When the flat earth thing, the knee jerk reactions to that came up, I'm like, when you dig into it, "This is an incredible teaching tool, to teach debate skills, to teach the scientific method."

[02:05:34] This should be discussed by grade children. Instead, we're told these stupid stories of boats going over horizon, disappearing bottom first, and that's how we know it's curved. And sticks and shadows, which is Eratosthenes from 500 years before Christ calculated the circumference of the earth.

[02:05:55] These are the things we're told, fact, and then we get space. And there's so much to this. There's so many different ways that we can analyze and look at these things and go, "Hmm, does this actually match up with what we can observe and what we can test?"

[02:06:12] Luke: That's a pretty good reason. I think for me, it's not understanding, it's like coming into a greater appreciation of how miraculous God is. And if there's any manifestation of God that's been hidden from me, that bothers me. I want to know everything there is to know because it's in my, I was going to say it's in my DNA, but not sure exactly what that is. But it's in my nature.

[02:06:52] It's like I want to understand the nature of reality because there's clearly an intelligent designer to that reality, and I don't know. For me, it's like, why would you listen to beautiful classical music? In appreciation of the fact that it exists, that it's beautiful.

[02:07:12] So if there were once giant trees, I think that's just as beautiful as the trees that exist right outside the studio. And I want to know about them if they existed, even if I can't see them now. You know what I mean? If there's evidence of them in Monument Valley, wow. What a beauty to behold. So I want to know what I'm looking at so that I can appreciate it more deeply.

[02:07:33] Mike: And there's a fun line, which I've gotten some of my presentations from back to the future, where they're in Monument Valley, and he's talking about, "Oh, we got to be careful how we calculate this. We wouldn't want you to go back in time and run into a giant tree that once existed. And then right behind them are these--

[02:07:49] Luke: No way, really?

[02:07:50] Mike: These plateaus. Yeah. I think they're constantly giving us tips of the hat and truth in plain sight. And whether they have to absolve themselves by telling you the truth in some even encoded way or not, I don't know, but--

[02:08:06] Luke: There's some metaphysical higher law that they have to follow, the revelation of the method kind of thing.

[02:08:12] Mike: All of that.

[02:08:12] Luke: I have to leave clues. I think that's interesting too, that within the confines of the information matrix, big pieces of truth seem to slip through. And I'm like, "They're doing such a good job of controlling the flow of information. Why would they let that big thing out? That's always a fascinating aspect of--

[02:08:33] Mike: Because they can use it as a divide and conquer thing as well, and they can-- as long as they keep 90% asleep to the major narratives, they can keep rolling forward. All of these little fringe ideas can become very divisive as people latch onto them.

[02:08:54] Luke: That's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. I think the realm you're in, that was actually something I wanted to ask you. And maybe I'll ask you that in my last patented question, but I'm glad I get to talk to people like you that are doing this kind of work and you have that kind of the basis of your brand, for lack of a better term.

[02:09:13] Mike: You don't have to be crazy. You can just talk to crazy.

[02:09:15] Luke: Yeah, totally. And I guess there's this idea now, well, you platformed that person, therefore you agree with every single thing they've ever thought in their life, which is just ludicrous. You don't seem like you'd be bothered by disapproval or people trolling you and things like that, but do you get a lot of that? Because you're dealing with topics that are, I think, really triggering to a certain segment of people.

[02:09:39] You look at the vitriol. If you start going, "Hey, this is weird. You can see too far." Nothing freaks people out, as far as I can tell, than some of these topics where you're talking about the nature of our reality, the big questions. If you question the big questions, man, some people get really psychotic about it.

[02:10:00] Mike: I've actually experienced a lot of the opposite, which is I've had geologists coming to my channel and making comments.

[02:10:06] Luke: Really?

[02:10:06] Mike: Oh, I've had people, like nurses and doctors who are like, "Oh, wow, I can totally see what you're showing." One of the top cardiologists in the world has seen the stones that I've presented, and he's totally on board with it. He's like, "This is an amazing discovery."

[02:10:26] Luke: No way.

[02:10:27] Mike: Yeah. He was actually the right hand man of Francisco Torrent-Guasp, who's the one who made the discovery that the heart is a rope. We're taught it's a four-chamber pump that's pushing the blood out, and that model is absurd. If you just think of the viscosity of the blood and that all of the channels are getting narrow and narrower to the capillaries, and then the blood reaches a complete stop at the end of the capillary, and then it turns around, reverses direction, and works its way passively back to the heart in order to be pumped out again.

[02:11:06] So the idea that the heart is a pump has been debunked since 1972. A cardiologist in Spain named Francisco Torrent-Guasp, also known as Paco Guasp, he made this discovery. And it took decades before it started to catch on. And it's still not even integrated into cardiology programs. So you have people who are cutting into the hearts that don't understand the true anatomy of the heart and how it functions.

[02:11:33] They're taught all of these things, and they can regurgitate what they learned in their schoolbooks, but ultimately, they're doing something, and they don't really understand what they're doing because they don't even know the basic anatomy. So I found out a bit about this because someone posted comments on my channel saying, the heart is a rope.

[02:11:50] I was showing these heart stones, and I was like, "Okay, whatever, dude." And then the heart is a rope. And then someone wrote the helical heart. And I went looking at this and saw this documentary about this man's life's work. And I was already big into like Viktor Schauberger and vortexing and all of this stuff.

[02:12:09] And I love Walter Russell's ideas as well. And his take on the periodic table is completely different from what we were taught. And then this comes into my life. And it was life changing because I knew the anatomy of the heart inside and out from school. Never heard a mention of this stuff.

[02:12:27] And there, in this documentary, the way he did it is he boils the hearts and then he careful carefully removes the fatty outer layer. So all that's left is the heart muscle itself. And then he can bluntly dissect it using his fingers and pulling apart at the fibers, And it literally unravels into one long band.

[02:12:47] Luke: Whoa.

[02:12:48] Mike: And then he can roll it back up. And so when I saw this, my jaw hit the floor. I'd never seen it before. I didn't know about it. And this is what I consider to be a self-evident proof. His action is the proof. It doesn't need to be-- oh, yeah, he can repeat it with more hearts, but it's not like there's some scientific experiment that has to be performed to prove it.

[02:13:10] He's proven it by doing it. And that's how I feel about, for example, the big trees. The actual footage of the sites is the evidence. It's self-evident, unless you deny it because you have a different paradigm. So I saw this, and it just blew my mind. And then as he's rolling up the heart, there's these folds or meeting like where fibers meet at sulcus lines, just like what was in the eye that I was talking about.

[02:13:37] And I realized, when he rolled it up, that I had seen those lines on the stones that I had already been collecting. And I went to my collection. I got the best of the stones on. I started looking. They had a curved line going down the front like this, like a bow, in the right place.

[02:13:57] So I already had the harp shape, the little indentations or creases at the top where the blood vessels would've been, this tapering in on the sides from when the heart goes into contraction. When we die, we go into rigor mortis, all of our muscles go into contraction, including the heart. So it makes sense that the heart upon petrification, would be in that contracted state, if it was a rapid petrification.

[02:14:22] And then the other thing that I discovered from watching this video about this man's life was that, if you look at the heart from the bottom, the heart has a vortex blood flow, but it's two opposite rotating vortexes. Sounds like a Torah to me. It's also the most powerful electromagnetic field in the body, extending six feet in either direction. Maybe that's why they wanted us six feet apart from each other. Don't want us triggering each other's fields and charging each other up.

[02:14:53] Luke: Yeah.

[02:14:53] Mike: And so this ties into magnetics and vortex. The water vortexing and all these other things. It all just starts to perfectly dovetail. But when, in this video, they're showing the heart contracting, at the bottom it twists like this, like a propeller blade on an old plane. You've got that opposite rotating twists.

[02:15:19] I started looking at the heart stones, and sure enough, from the bottom, they had this twist, many of them. It was very pronounced and very hard to explain from some water erosion how the creases would get there, the openings would get there, and just banging around.

[02:15:34] So the more specificity you have, the less likely it is to be random chance, and the more likely you are to be experiencing actual phenomenon. So that was utterly mind blowing. And then this is where the synchronicity ties in. I've done entire live streams on all the synchronicities related to this research, and there have been a ton.

[02:15:54] And they're off the charts with the unlikelihood that something could happen. This is one of my favorites, is at the end of that documentary about the cardiologist's life, it's got his-- he had died 15 years before I came across this information, but it said, Deià, Spain. Deià, Spain is the next town. My town and Deià are next to each other. And you know what sits between them?

[02:16:26] Luke: That mountain.

[02:16:27] Mike: That mountain.

[02:16:27] Luke: The elephant mountain.

[02:16:28] Mike: The elephant mountain.

[02:16:29] Luke: Oh man.

[02:16:30] Mike: And Francisco Guasp lived and worked his entire career as a cardiologist. He had a family practice. He was an MD, and he would buy these hearts from butchers to dissect them at home to try and figure out how the heck does the circulatory system really work? Because the main model didn't make any sense to him. And so he was working out a family practice. His home was on the foothills of Montgó.

[02:17:00] Luke: What the hell?

[02:17:03] Mike: Isn't that wild?

[02:17:04] Luke: Dude, that's crazy.

[02:17:06] Mike: The river that goes next to Montgó is called Gata de Gorgos. And the Gogors were three mythical sisters from Greek mythology. And one of those three sisters was Medusa, the snake haired, instant-petrification-by-looking-at-you goddess. That was Medusa. And the river next to Montgó is named after her.

[02:17:32] Luke: Wow.

[02:17:33] Mike: Just like one thing after another. The synchronicities are off the chart.

[02:17:38] Luke: That's bananas.

[02:17:39] Mike: Yeah. There's one stream called Synchronicity Streem. It's spelled S-T-R-E-E-M because it's got tree in the middle there. And it's unbelievable. I don't want to give away the synchronicities in that, but there's some that will absolutely blow your mind. Guarantee.

[02:18:00] Luke: My mind, I couldn't be anymore blown. It might leave my shoulders if it were any more so. What a fascinating conversation. I'm so glad we got to connect today. I've got a lot think about here or feel about. Super interesting. I'm so happy to be covering some of these topics. Like I said earlier, it's not totally out of my normal repertoire, but it's a direction that I'm interested in spending more time.

[02:18:28] Mike: Hmm.

[02:18:28] Luke: Last question for you before we get out of here is, who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you'd like to share with us?

[02:18:45] Mike: Three, huh? Well, Francisco Torrent-Guasp has been a big one. Viktor Schauberger, though I haven't gone deep enough into his work to consider myself a  Schaubergeran. Joseph Campbell was a big influence early on in my life, the whole archetypes and the hero's journey and the mythology of life.

[02:19:19] I often have thought back to his work when I've gone through my-- I've got crazy stories to tell and a really bizarre backstory with the hacking, and everything that happened since then has been wild. So it definitely feels archetypal, the stuff that's happened to me.

[02:19:40] Luke: Yeah. For real. Well, thanks again for coming. I'll remind everyone the show notes. We're going to do our best to really put a nice collection of visual material in here, and those show notes will be at lukestorey.com/rocks. Like rock and roll. Well, Mike, thanks so much, man. It's been a freaking blast today.

[02:19:57] Mike: Thank you. It's been pleasure and honor to be here, and it's so fun to meet you and talk to you face to face.

[02:20:03] Luke: Likewise.

[02:20:04] Mike: Yeah.