[00:00:00] Luke: All right. So check this out, Elizabeth. A couple of years ago, maybe two, three years ago, I'm in a plant medicine ceremony, and for some reason I just started thinking about finances, abundance, wealth, and things like that. And I was charmed into that area of inquiry. And all of this stuff started to unfold for me.

[00:00:26] The main idea, I think that came through, and I don't know that I can articulate it perfectly, but I'll hint to it and open it up in the most clear way I can and see what you think about it as a opening question. I was thinking about the difference between exceedingly wealthy, financially free people, and those that are in either poverty or just above the poverty line and are unable to break through.

[00:00:55] What is the fundamental difference between these people? Is it ambition, intelligence, whatever, creativity? And I was also applying this to generational wealth. And I didn't grow up with money and still feel like I have a long way to go in that area in terms of what my dreams and visions are.

[00:01:21] But I was thinking about that. And then what started to become really clear to me was that the difference between someone who is super wealthy and someone who is poor has less to do with their aptitude in making money and more so to do with the rich person simply believes it's easy to be rich and the poor person thinks it's difficult.

[00:01:48] And that that might have something to do in some cases with the idea of generational wealth, when it's not a case of like, oh, generational wealth is because you inherited all these assets as your ancestors passed away, but more so about the generational wealth mindset where from the time you were a baby, you just saw the people around you treating money as this infinite resource that just comes easily and it just happens and therefore you grow up without the limitation.

[00:02:16] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:16] Luke: Whereas if you grow up in a home, like I did, where it wasn't talked about a lot, but my mom was a waitress and there wasn't a lot of money. Both child support from my dad thankfully, but it's like where I grew up was we looked at the rich people as a different kind of people.

[00:02:33] And we saw ourselves as poor. And it's like, I think that's the deciding factor, is like, how you see yourself. And I thought, holy shit, my whole life I've looked at rich people with kind of some disdain. Especially rich men, that they're assholes. You know what I mean? Because some of that--

[00:02:54] Elizabeth: They had to do something greedy and awful to get it.

[00:02:56] Luke: Exactly. That kind of thing. And I was like, "Whoa, what if it's almost as simple as, if you view yourself on this side of the fence as we are the poors and they're the rich over there, and especially if there's some kind of resentment or envy or jealousy of those rich, you will never cross the fence until you start seeing yourself as one of the riches, you know?

[00:03:19] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:03:20] Luke: It was around that. As I said, I don't know that I can articulate it perfectly, but in the moment, it was such a massive epiphany because I just thought, what if you just decide that you're on the other side of the ledger? I'm rich. Maybe I don't see it right here in the manifest.

[00:03:37] But if I start to see that in the mindset and understand also that there are an infinite number of humans in the world that have financial resources and are actually really good, amazing people and contribute good to the world rather than being extractive and exploitive. So let's start there. What's your take on the two sides of that equation in terms of mindset?

[00:04:05] Elizabeth: You're spot on with it. I call it money normalization, which is basically like, if you-- and you can take anything. If you have a toilet that flushes versus that doesn't. That becomes part of your normal world. It's funny. When you were telling this, I was thinking about, I saw this reel the other day where this little kid, there was a bicycle laying on its side and then there was a chicken. This little boy, he takes this chicken, and he puts the chicken on the bicycle seat.

[00:04:36] The bicycle is still lying down. He's putting the chicken back on the seat and back on the seat. And I'm thinking, this chicken doesn't want to be sitting on the bicycle seat. I kid you not, he gets the chicken on the seat and he position it so the chicken was holding onto the edge of the bicycle. And then the little boy goes, and he picks the bicycle up, and the chicken's still on the seat.

[00:04:57] And he gets on the bicycle, and he and the chicken ride off. And I was like, no one told this little boy that you can't put a chicken on the back of a bicycle. So it was not in his mind at all that he could not put a chicken on the back of the bicycle. No one, no adult, no one came around to tell him that.

[00:05:16] So it was like, it was outside of his thinking. And so you're exactly right. We can call it a standard because the money that we have in our life right now exactly matches the standard that we've chosen, and we've decided on. But that's based on what is inside of our world that we believe is normal.

[00:05:42] Because a lot of people, they want more money, but they don't want to sacrifice to be able to get more money because that feels like you're giving something away. But we're happy to do things that feel normal. So that didn't feel like a sacrifice that little boy to do that 10 times or how many times ever.

[00:05:58] It was just something he was like, "This is just going to happen." So if we could take our vision, let's say a million dollars or whatever, and it's just normal that we're going to do the things to get the million dollars and there's no other voice whatsoever in our head that says we haven't done it or this person over here lost this, or the big one is time-- it's going to take me so much time to get it-- then what we would do is we'd be diminishing the gap.

[00:06:32] Because that's all we're trying to do, is diminish the gap. But what we do when we think it's going to take us time to get something is feeding the gap. Because when I say it's going to take me three months to get a million dollars, what I really believe is I'm agreeing to wait.

[00:06:47] Luke: Oh, that's good. That's good. You just reminded me-- back in the day, I used to make vision boards and stuff. A lot of people poo poo them. I kept having to make new ones every year because the shit would come true. You know what I mean? I'd be like, "Okay, it works." And then, I don't know, it was just-- it's laborious to build them. So then I started making basically just flashcards.

[00:07:09] And yeah, I put just audacious goals and dreams on them and then review them every year. And many of them would come true, but many of the ones that didn't come true were the ones for which I attributed a date. And then I'd look at that date, like, ah, 2020. Shit, it's 2022, and I still haven't done that or gotten that or whatever. And then I beat myself up.

[00:07:33] So I stopped putting dates on them because I'm just like, "I don't want to--" I could make it happen faster, and for whatever, God's plan might make it much longer, and then I'll blame myself because it didn't happen when I envisioned it getting done. In general, just goal setting, not just in finances, but what do you think about putting a timeline on that? Do you think it's going to impose a limitation or light a fire under our ass to actually start to implement the steps to achieving the goal?

[00:08:05] Elizabeth: I think, really, it comes down to, what side do you want to play in? Do you want to play in the 3D space of money? Which is, you can put a timeline together and you can put a whole plan together and then every single day you can get up and do something and do something and do something. You can check your results. And if it's investing, you can check your account, all that.

[00:08:26] That's the old way of living. We grew up watching our parents do that, right? It's just like, you clock in, you clock out. I think most people listening to this, or most people who are in my world, they don't really want to play that. So if you don't want to play that game, you can't take certain pieces from that game.

[00:08:46] And time would be one of them. So if you want to play in the energy of money, then you would not put a wish out there for it to take time, because time actually doesn't even belong in that realm. And if you look at it, you've actually already proven this to yourself. Because if you look back, money has never come to you in the way that you thought, and money has never come to you in the time that you thought.

[00:09:11] The linear relationship for money only exists in your planning. There's no linear relationship whatsoever when it comes to the energy of money. And so your willingness to let that go is actually your acceptance to play in that world.

[00:09:28] Luke: I like that. Going back to the little boy and the chicken, it reminds me of the Roger Banister one-minute mile. Are you familiar with that?

[00:09:38] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:09:38] Luke: Or like 100th monkey concept. So going back to my earlier realization about, someone who grows up in a family system where financial abundance and security is just totally so normal, it's not even talked about, it's just how we roll in our family, that's that Roger Banister training or indoctrination. It's just over the course of your childhood, you're seeing someone else do it effortlessly, and it's just, as you said, the norm. There's a standard that's set. And maybe some of it has to do with that.

[00:10:17] So that little kid on his bike with the chicken, if his five other little friends were there and they didn't know that that wasn't common or think that it was possible and saw him do it, now they're all putting chickens on their bikes. And that just becomes the norm. and then they have kids, and their kid puts the chicken on the bike kind of thing.

[00:10:35] Elizabeth: Yes. Absolutely.

[00:10:38] Luke: I love that. I'm excited to have this conversation, especially with you and your merging of spiritual principles with finance. And I think in the realm that I've emerged from the meditation groups and 12-step groups and yoga groups, it's like there's been a huge disconnect in terms of acknowledging that money is essentially energy, and we're all working in these realms of energy, but for some reason, there's a huge block when we try and reconcile being financially successful or stable or secure, but also leading a spiritually driven life.

[00:11:27] And that's been a huge one for me to overcome because, to me, they were compartmentalized. It's like, you're either doing the spiritual path or you're doing the money path. And I felt that fulfillment is going to be found on the spiritual path. Therefore, I'm going to do that and discount the importance of money. And only as I've gotten older, I think, well, I don't know how many more years I can work this hard. You know what I'm saying? I've been working my ass off since 1985.

[00:11:56] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:57] Luke: So then I start future thinking a bit, and like, wow, maybe it does matter. Maybe living in a cave and being a renun, it might be a great path for some, but I'm on the householder path. So what kind of house do you want to hold?

[00:12:09] Elizabeth: Yes. Yeah.

[00:12:10] Luke: Yeah.

[00:12:10] Elizabeth: Yeah. I think it's an important conversation especially now because I have a belief that in the future, wealth is going to be in the hands of those who are conscious. And I have that belief because I do believe that money is energy. And if money is energy, then it's not any different than this conversation we're having. It's not any different than the spiritual work itself.

[00:12:40] I think one of the things that people do with money is that they say money is energy, and they'll read a book on, okay, money is energy, and they'll feel really good about it. They say, "Okay, well, it feels like ease or something like that." It feels in flow or what have you. But I don't think that really people have taken that to the level that they could, because if you truly believed it was energy, then you would not believe in the limitation of money.

[00:13:12] You would also know that you have to move money. Money can't be stagnant. I did a workout this morning because I'm like, "My responsibility in this to be open to everyone who's listening to this and to my connection with you is to move energy." I don't see that as being any different than money.

[00:13:34] And so I'm not going to have money just sitting there, or I'm not going to have money that I haven't followed up on, or I'm not going to have money that I'm pushing away or whatever. And people get caught up in this because there's all this manifestation, and you go and you spend money, and you want to feel abundant and all of that.

[00:13:53] Well, how are you really feeling when you spend that? You spend it, but are you feeling in your gut, the lack of it because it's going on a credit card? That's not abundance, just because you're doing a transaction. But if you're giving something to someone, or if you're spending money from a place of the money that I just spent, I can spend it because it's coming right back. Do you see what I'm saying?

[00:14:20] Luke: 100%.

[00:14:22] Elizabeth: It's us. We're the source. We're actually bankrupting money because of us, because we haven't truly indoctrinated ourself, if you will, to the fact that money really is energy and it's not just a concept. Can you live that?

[00:14:43] Luke: That's super cool. I love that. Something I've always been mystified by is I have friends and relatives that are very frugal. It's like they really watch every dollar they spend. I'm not like that. I'm not good with numbers. I've had bookkeepers and CPAs and stuff like that.

[00:15:04] Dude, I have no idea how much money I make, how much money I spend. I just don't like being in debt. That's the thing I watch for, because I've been there so many times. I'm 100 grand in debt. I worked two years. I finally paid off. I'm never doing that again. I get back in debt again, which is a whole other conversation.

[00:15:20] But I'm just someone, if I want to do something, I'm just like, "I'm doing the thing." Within reason. I'm not overleveraging, but what I've noticed to your point, is that someone who's really a bit tight or frugal, and I know a couple of them, which they're great people and they're successful in their own area of comfort, I've surpassed some of those people that are much more frugal.

[00:15:47] Because if I take a trip somewhere, it's like, oh shit, that's a lot of money. I'll have that little voice that's like, "Are you sure?" And I go, "Eh, fuck it." It's just like whatever. I just know that I'm emptying out a bucket and it's just going to be filled back up. It's just, I don't know. I don't know where I got that. Maybe I've just seen it happen so many times that I just know that's the way it's going to be now, so there's much less fear or guilt if I'm being to what someone else might consider a little bit extravagant.

[00:16:18] And it's been so helpful to me to just loosen my relationship with it all. But that's also, as I said, coming out of a lot of really unconscious spending and the addictive part of debting and the self-shame involved in that. And there's a whole neurosis involved in that, which we can get into later.

[00:16:40] But I love what you're saying there. I'm just like, so much of it has to do with how tightly you hold and sometimes holding it a bit more loose allows the currency, no pun intended-- or actually pun very intended-- allows the currency to flow.

[00:16:58] Elizabeth: It does.

[00:16:58] Luke: There's not a clinging to what you've got, therefore there's not a block to what is on its way.

[00:17:04] Elizabeth: Yeah. And if you look at, even just statistically, the 3D world proves this to you. There's basically three tiers of people. Poor people tend to spend and spend and spend. They have the high expenses. The middle class saves, and wealthy people invest, which is expanding money. That's expanding money, investing. All you're doing is just moving money.

[00:17:26] So it's like we always get to choose our truth. So are we going to choose the truth, the way that I was brought up is to save, which is a lot of people that'll look at what their dad did or something. That's fine. Nothing wrong with it. That's your truth though. Or are you going to choose the truth that the stock market is basically a wealth generating machine, and all you have to do is just put your money over there? You can choose that truth.

[00:17:53] You can choose, even look at these categories. Which category do you want to be in? And then what do you need to do in order to operate based on that truth? One of the things that you have to do is you have to stop operating with money based on your past. So anytime I catch myself saying I do X, Y, Z with money, that to me is the mirror that I need to do something different. People would make so much more money if they would just stop doing what they've been doing and do something completely different.

[00:18:31] Honestly, if I had someone else manage my money, and I think I'm pretty decent with money, I would probably have more money because all the blocks that I have, because we all have them, they would not be there. Same thing with you. If we literally were around the table and we just had someone get up and sit down at our laptop and do something different. I would love to do the experiment someday because it would get things moving though.

[00:19:00] Luke: Totally, totally. What do you think about the idea of-- I always think about in the business I'm in, which is essentially information-based, media-based, marketing, I guess, you'd categorize what I do. I put information into the world that has value to people, and then some people pay me to share their information too, in terms of our sponsors on the show and things like that. My model in business has always been to make sure that it's a win-win-win for all three parties.

[00:19:34] So in my model now, there's me as one party, there's the audience as the other, and the third is whatever brand is paying me to promote their stuff essentially. It's the basis of my business model now. And I feel like I want to make sure that the other two parties, I don't know if winning more than me is right, but I want to make sure that it's very generous and contribution-based and that everyone feels like they're getting a lot of value from whatever that transaction is.

[00:20:02] Because I don't want it to feel transactional. It's like I don't feel like I'm winning unless everybody wins. And that to me, I think, helped me be successful because I'm not rapacious. I'm not out there just to win and screw the other guy, whoever that is. That's really the truth of who I am and my character.

[00:20:23] I wasn't always that way, but I've just learned, if you really want to win, seems to me the key is making sure that the other guy wins too, or everyone involved also wins, and that everyone is feeling really good about their level of participation, whatever their position is in. So how much emphasis do you put on other people's success and gains versus your own?

[00:20:51] Elizabeth: I think if you are fully open-- I see money as a circle, so I see it, okay, you have money going out, and you have money go going in. And so it's really a function of your own receiving. That's the limiting factor. We feel like it is a function of what we're doing out there. But we can only do out there what we can receive. It's exactly like love. So you can only love someone at the capacity that you have to love. And so you're right in terms of that is the model.

[00:21:27] Because actually, you're considering how do I make this win-win situation? How do I actually make wealth for someone else? The thing that I would say about that is if you want that to be bigger for them, you can take on the responsibility that it's bigger for you at the same time.

[00:21:48] And I think sometimes where people get in trouble is they look at it as an or. There's a slight subconscious or. If there's money all around here, I have to make sure that they make a little bit more, or it's biased, or something like that. But then we have to ask ourselves why. It's energy.

[00:22:04] What we're always doing is we are always quantifying money. And the moment that we quantify money, we get into a comparison, and we get into that there's some type of limiting factor on it. If you increase your capacity-- one of the things with you is that you're so real. This is my impression just listening to the podcast and just seeing you operate in the world. I think people connect with you because they feel close to you because you're so real.

[00:22:38] Luke: I appreciate that. That's a really powerful compliment. I'll accept it. Thank you.

[00:22:44] Elizabeth: So you're a conduit because of that. And so if you match money to that, then you don't actually have to do anything more to expand that capacity. Because that's how money's coming through anyways. It's just that you, I would guess, have not invited money in to be that equal with you.

[00:23:09] And I think that that's one of the reasons that when you say, I just go out there and do the thing and the money just comes in or it works out, to a certain level, you believe that that's going to happen. You believe to a certain level that money does follow your energy.

[00:23:27] Luke: Yeah. Okay, I had a business for a few years, and it was one of those things. It just started building momentum, inertia. It was successful. It was in the fashion industry. I was in that industry, and it was my side hustle. Then it turned into my main thing. Helped a lot of people, had a lot of impact. And then over time I just lost interest in it because I started the podcast and just my direction changed.

[00:24:01] I made a decision to just do something that was more in alignment with who I really am and the things I value about life and the world and wellness and spirituality and so on. So I was sitting on this asset that I had created, and it was just sitting there dormant and just losing value by the day.

[00:24:19] The website shut down, and it's just sitting there. And I wanted to sell it because the history, the legacy of the business had a lot of value in all the systems that had been created and so on. So it was just like this cash cow waiting there for someone to pick up the ball and run with it. And as I was sitting on it for a couple of years, I'd have the idea every now and then, or I'd talk to someone about it, and they're like, bro, let's just fire this engine up and make a bunch of money.

[00:24:48] And it's like, yeah, okay, let's do it. Because no one's buying it. And it was such a beautiful, just teaching moment for me because I'd sit down on my computer and fire a couple of emails and just see if I could turn the key. And it was just like, I literally could not do it because I didn't care about the business and the industry.

[00:25:10] I had no passion for it. And it was very affirming. And this isn't a virtue signal. It's just the truth. You want to talk about being real? This is real. And I saw something really cool, and it's not right or wrong, good or bad. I saw, oh, the reason I can't get this thing going is because the only motivation to do so would be purely to make money.

[00:25:34] Elizabeth: Yes, yes.

[00:25:35] Luke: And I love making money. I think money gives you a lot of freedom in life and fewer headaches if you do it right and all that. It was really cool to see, and I thought, okay, I could turn this faucet and make instant money with very little effort because so much work had been back loaded into building the business. And it's like, wow, that's really good to know that that's not the thing that really motivates me. So what does?

[00:25:58] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:59] Luke: I think about, to the line of this conversation right here, this thread we're in, is like, I would sit down and talk to you for two hours for free all day long. Because I'm passionate about learning from you and getting to know you and just sharing our thoughts and energy. So it's like the reason that I get paid to sit in this chair is because I'm not doing it to get paid.

[00:26:23] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:26:24] Luke: I'm following my passion, and I'm following my desire to contribute to the world and to help as many people as I possibly can while I'm here. It's like an act of service to myself and my own evolution and growth. And as a side benefit, it's like the evolution and growth for anyone else that wants to tune in.

[00:26:43] And when I follow that, the money does. It's automatic. It's like, yeah, the money just happens. I don't even know how. It's just cool. These guys, they want to pay me to talk about their Update drink. Hey, Update. Go buy it. It's amazing. It's like I'm just organically living my life and discovering cool things and cool people, and it's literally the life I've been living 10 years before I ever had the podcast.

[00:27:09] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:27:10] Luke: It's like not much has really changed except there's a bit more scheduling and regularity in the ways that I'm sharing the information that I've acquired or what I'm learning or sharing from other people. So isn't that great to know about oneself? And not that there's anything wrong with being motivated by money.

[00:27:26] Many people are probably really great people, and the thing that motivates them is only the money. And that's great. I just know that that wasn't me. So now it's like, where else can I find my interest, passion, creativity, drive, ambition? If it's not money, then what is it? And that leaves the world is a massive oyster for me at this point. It's like, whoa, cool. There's all kinds of things I'm interested in that I could get in and have passion for. And maybe some of those also pay you.

[00:27:56] Elizabeth: Yeah. I'm so glad that you went through this too because I think it's important for people to even hear your process with this. Because basically, you have combined creativity with money. There's no difference for you. And you've been wildly successful. You've been able to do that.

[00:28:16] But people can do that when it comes to investing as well. People can do that in all the areas of their life. It's just like, we go somewhere, we go on vacation or whatever, and we're like, "Okay, I'm going to plan all these things that I'm going to do because I'm going to create my trip. I'm going to create my day or whatever. I'm going to create the space."

[00:28:38] So what people don't do with money that they could do, and this ties into what we started with, like, there's the energy of money versus the 3D world of money. People don't see it as they can actually create the space to invite money in no different than you create your day to do your massage and do your yoga and do all this. But create has to have the spark of creativity, which you just gave us the example. It's like nails on a chalkboard for you to sit down and literally get on the computer and just do that.

[00:29:13] Luke: Totally impossible.

[00:29:15] Elizabeth: And that's great that you saw that about yourself, and that is huge because everything happens in polarity. And so that's very extreme for you. The other side is extreme too. So you have the ability. You've taken your creativity, and you've applied it to your business model.

[00:29:35] If you wanted to, you could take your creativity, and you could take it into other areas of your life, and actually have the same model. Whatever we're doing that's successful, whether we're having success in a relationship or success in business or what have you, I think people think that they have to just reinvent the wheel when it comes to money. But I think people are so much closer than they realize.

[00:29:59] All the spiritual work that you've done, all the opening, all this stuff, it's no different. It's just that you think money is different, so you think you need to leave it over in the corner. But the joke of the universe is energy is energy, and you don't get to leave that over there. Part of your spiritual growth is actually incorporating and inviting money in because it's just abundance, and the universe wants to support you.

[00:30:25] It's like we have to even almost get over the fact that there's even this conceptual thing called money and just go, it's just energetic currency, whatever I'm doing. Sometimes that's connection. Sometimes I'll go and I'll speak to someone and that feels so abundant. Sometimes it will be money. Sometimes it will be a financial transaction. But people are blaming money for simply just what is lacking within them.

[00:30:57] Luke: That's amazing. Side note-- of course, I did end up exiting the company and selling it for what felt fair to both parties. And it was beautiful. I didn't have to just throw away something I spent 10 years building. so there was like a beautiful ending to the story where the other party really won, and I won enough to feel good about it.

[00:31:22] And now they're off and running, and schoolofstyle.com is kicking ass. And they were just the perfect people to be stewards of that legacy. They're just scaling the hell out of it and helping tons of people, and it's amazing. It's beautiful. I go on the website sometimes. I'm like, man, that feels a lot better than just letting it die on the vine. And definitely feels better than me wrestling myself into doing something that I didn't really want to do.

[00:31:46] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:31:47] Luke: Yeah. How did you retire at 39?

[00:31:50] Elizabeth: So I was working on the trading floor, which, it was great. I loved the people. I loved the challenge of the job. But I decided that I didn't want to be doing that in my 40s. And so I was actually in Australia, and I was sitting on a beach.

[00:32:09] Luke: Are there trading floors all over the world, not just Wall Street?

[00:32:13] Elizabeth: Yeah, there are trading floors. Yes, yes. There are trading floors everywhere.

[00:32:15] Luke: As I was telling you earlier, my friend Cal comes from that world. I know nothing about that realm. I'm just like, "So did you live in New York City?" He was like, "No, dude, I lived in Chicago." "Oh, you can do it there?" He is like, "Yeah. It's called phones and computers."

[00:32:26] Elizabeth: Exactly. Oh my God, I love him already.

[00:32:28] Luke: Finance happens all over the world, Luke. I was like, "Oh, okay. Good to know."

[00:32:31] Elizabeth: Yeah. But a trading floor's typically like you have a badge. It's a high-security thing. So every day I would get in the elevator, and I swear like this would sound a little dramatic, but I really did. I felt like there was like this little piece of me dying, every time I would go in there and then sit in the meetings. Because I really didn't feel like after a certain point, I was generating anything new, even though I was making money for the company and the portfolio that we were running.

[00:33:01] It just felt like I was repeating the same thing over and over, and I was having the same conversations over and over. And there's a boring element to that. And so one day I was sitting there, and I saw it was the guy who had hired me. He wasn't my boss anymore, but we'd become good friends, and he and I would have conversations.

[00:33:26] Anyway, so I saw him get up from his computer and he walked and walked to the printer. And it was like one of those moments where you feel like you're watching a movie, like everything's in slow motion. And he was a bicyclist. He was in really good shape. But all of a sudden, he looked really old in just the way he was walking and slumped over.

[00:33:51] And then I watched him, and I watched him go load paper in the printer. And then I watched him come back, and I saw the expression. I saw pain in his expression. I saw that he'd lived decades and decades of his life, raising children, going to the same job. And then I thought about he just had the same conversations over and over about his home and his retirement plan and his kids. Nothing wrong, but I felt full anxiety in that moment.

[00:34:25] I pushed my chair back, I guess this was in San Diego. I pushed my chair back, I got in the elevator, and I just started walking. I was like, "I have to buy my way out of this." Because I didn't want to go down to zero income and just put a backpack on and do that. I didn't want that life. So what I decided to do is I said, "Okay, I have to define financial freedom," which I think everyone should have their own definition of anyways.

[00:34:49] So I said, how can I cover my monthly cost of living, basics, like, mortgage, groceries, car, that kind of stuff. And then how can I finish out my long-term retirement? Because I didn't want to have to worry about that. And then I put the numbers together on how to do that. Now what I did back then is I put a timeline on it.

[00:35:12] I didn't know any better. I wouldn't do that today. I think I could have done it faster than I did. I put it for 10 years, and I did it in eight. I invested in real estate in San Diego after the financial crisis, and it was so funny because there was so many PhDs in finance, and they were all telling me I was crazy.

[00:35:35] They're like, "Why would you be dumping money into property in San Diego right now?" Because people were squatting at that time. And so you would buy the property, and you really couldn't get the people out, and you would just have to deal with it. Hopefully they'd move out, or you'd have to pay them to move out.

[00:35:50] It was a bit of the Wild Wild West. One property that I bought, the guy that owned it before, in order for them to get to pay their rent, he would literally sneak under the house, and he would turn their water off from underneath the house so that they would pay their-- it was just the weirdest shit was going on.

[00:36:11] But I saw through it. I was like, no, I know that this is going to turn around, and real estate is my easiest way to have consistent monthly cash flow. So what if I have to sit on it for a year? And I think this is really the sign of, in order to be a good investor, you have to not focus on the risk of it sometimes. And that's what a lot of people do. They'll sit on the sideline. I just bought property after property. And then I opened up one of the first Airbnbs in San Diego as well.

[00:36:47] Luke: Oh really?

[00:36:47] Elizabeth: Yeah. There were only three. Actually, Airbnb didn't even exist. So there was VRBO. Airbnb contacted me and said, can we come take photographs of your property. We'll do it for free. Because we're starting this new website, and we want your property on the website. Of course, the cashflow I was making on that property was enormous at the time because no one else had an Airbnb. And so I ran that for eight years and then got tired of the maintenance and dah, dah, dah.

[00:37:16] And plus, the profit margins have really diminished on Airbnbs, of course because of the competition. And then I took that money from the property and then I invested it in the market. And then one of the properties that I bought, I donated to horse rescues. And so then I started bringing in my own value system and started incorporating what do I want to do in the world type of thing.

[00:37:38] I like to help horses. And so as I went along, and I think the momentum picked up, and I got more confident, what I'm doing is working. It feels good. It feels easy. Then it is like my own creativity, allowing that to come in. And that's what I try and help people do.

[00:37:56] Really, honestly, people get to a certain point, and they really don't even need me anymore. I think what I really help people do is I help them get across that bridge to help not stay stuck on that one side. But once you get across it and you start feeling your own creativity, your own momentum, and then you get your own normalization going, you suddenly feel like you know enough to be able to do it. Then it's really not that difficult, to be honest. I think people make a big deal out of what this takes to do. And it really doesn't take a lot.

[00:38:33] Luke: I love that you ignored the experts in 2008.

[00:38:37] Elizabeth: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

[00:38:38] Luke: The business I was describing, I launched it in November, 2008. And I had no idea there was a recession, because I didn't watch the news or anything like that.

[00:38:47] Elizabeth: That's so good. I love that. I would totally do that too.

[00:38:50] Luke: I'm like working in the entertainment industry, and I don't know, the entertainment industry doesn't seem to really have recessions in the way that many other industries do. So I was clueless until maybe, I don't know, 2012 when someone's like, "Oh, you started it in the recession?"

[00:39:02] I was like, "What recession?" We were killing it. I literally had no idea. It's that ignorance is bliss. Had I known that, I might've been like, "I don't know. Everyone says it's not a great time to launch a startup, especially something that's never been done," which hadn't been done at the time I did it.

[00:39:18] So I love anything that defies commonly held belief structures, especially when it works. It's like, yeah, see, you can do whatever you want, if you follow your passion and intuition and creativity and all those things.

[00:39:33] Elizabeth: Yeah. Because you're not looking for validation at that point. Because the validation doesn't exist. Right?

[00:39:39] Luke: Totally, totally. Especially in a world of haters too. A lot of people, I think, that aren't successful want to see you fail because it confirms their failures and makes them feel not as bad about the things they've tried that haven't worked. It's like the crabs in the bucket thing.

[00:40:00] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:00] Luke: Let's talk about money and currency because you were talking about money as energy, and I think that's a concept many of us are familiar with. But the past year and a half or so, I've started to really get into law and studying law, just understanding the definition of words and just what rights we actually have and don't, and these kind of things.

[00:40:22] And just questioning all of the structures I've taken for granted, some of them in the financial realm. What is money? What is debt like? The fact that when you sign your signature, you're actually the creditor, not the debtor. The shit gets so nuts when you start looking at [Inaudible] and the Federal Reserve.

[00:40:41] But to your area of expertise and money versus the currency, money in Blacks Law Dictionary doesn't even exist. There is no money. Money is gold and silver, by definition. Legally, that's what money is, gold and silver coins. So when you talk about what we call money is just currency and energy. Literally, these days right now, in 2025 in the United States-- well, the whole Western world and maybe the whole world, really-- what we call money is actually just an idea.

[00:41:15] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. Yes. Absolutely.

[00:41:16] Luke: So maybe what's your take on that from the metaphysical standpoint?

[00:41:20] Elizabeth: I agree with you. I always tell people, I'm like, "Money's just ones and zeros." Whether it's debt or whether it's money that you have in the bank, it's all just ones and zeros. People think that we're going to digital money because of crypto. It's already digital. There's really nothing. Nothing's really changing except for, the whole blockchain and all that. What's behind it is changing.

[00:41:43] But I love where you're going with this, being like, "Are we the creditor? Are we debtor? All that. Because honestly, if we want to shift into the new paradigm, we actually need to start thinking of money as a whole new concept. And so what you're doing is you're offering people, hey, what if? Scramble your old concept of money. And that's you're doing there.

[00:42:10] Me personally, I think if everyone would think of themselves as a reserve, energetic currency, that's all we're doing, is we're just trading energetic currency. And so there's a reserve on-- so we're sourced. There's a reserve around us, almost like an aura, on our behalf.

[00:42:31] What we're doing right now, you and I, there's nothing that exists outside of us right now. This is our world, and you and I, both, we're sitting here. We want to help people understand how they can improve their lives, or can they get something from this. There's a value that we're putting out right now.

[00:42:54] Now, I don't think there's a direct connection to this. I just think of it, there's a value. I leave it there. And the more that I leave it there with everything in my life. Like you hand someone a piece of bread or something, it ends. There's a value.

[00:43:14] If you can operate based on that there's a reserve, then you don't need to monkey with the direct connection of how that's coming back to you because that direct connection is based on the past, and all it does is take you back into the old system. If you want to be in the new system, you have to actually completely drop all the old stuff about money because you can't not use it when it comes to money.

[00:43:42] Luke: That's deep. That is cool. I never know what direction these talks are going to go, but I'm inspired by things you say, and I go, "Oh, that connects to this other thing." So something just came to mind. The way you're framing this is very similar to my current understanding of karma.

[00:44:02] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:44:03] Luke: I just think of karma as this delayed cause and effect thing. I cheat someone, I screw someone over, down the road in five or 10 years, somebody's going to screw me over. I helped the little lady cross the street. Maybe when I'm an old man, someone helps me cross the street. That kind of thing, right?

[00:44:19] Elizabeth: Yes, yes.

[00:44:20] Luke: But as I've, over time, dissolved the illusion of time as we know it and understand it, I see this as an instantaneous, simultaneous feedback loop where any energy on the positive side or the negative side of the ledger in my thoughts, feelings, behavior, it's not like I'm going to get punished later for that, or I'm going to be rewarded later for that. Because I am you, if I do right by you and love on you, it's just an instantaneous feedback loop. I'm just actually doing it to and for myself.

[00:44:55] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:44:56] Luke: And if I harm you in any way, it's not like later on there's retribution. I'm actually causing self harm because I am you. There's only one thing in consciousness. I'm thinking of a non-dual perspective on money in essence, to your point, that there's this reserve. And it's not like, oh, I do A, then I get B. It's, I do A, and it's just a circle of A. It's like it never leaves the field in a way. Right?

[00:45:26] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:45:27] Luke: What's your take on that? Have you ever looked at it through the lens of karma and no time and just an instantaneous system?

[00:45:34] Elizabeth: I haven't, and I'm so glad that you paralleled that. I think that that is so important because it is. It's exactly the same thing. And actually, I think people will see it's exactly the same thing if they remove one thing, if they removed survival from money, it would be exactly the karmic circle that you just described.

[00:45:56] Because there's a survival instinct that is attached to money, we can't be as free with it. We can't be as, okay, I did this, and then this person is going to do this. Because we think we're going to die if this person is going to do that. And so if we could go to the level of, well, if we didn't have any more money-- let's just say you woke up and everything was zeroed out. Could you be okay? If you can do the spiritual work there, you will have unlimited money. Because you'll have removed that. There will be no separation. That is how you diminish the gap.

[00:46:41] Luke: Wow. Yeah. That's really interesting because there's so many other intangible assets that we don't directly attribute to our survival, and therefore are much more able to give them freely. Like if I show you kindness or love, I don't feel like, ah, I only got three units of kindness and love left. I might die if I give that to her. Therefore, I need to hang on to it.

[00:47:08] It's like, there's an infinite supply of good feelings and vibes and love. And so great, I just feel better the more I share that and give that, and there's no way I could ever run out, because it's an infinite resource. But I honestly don't think of money that way. I still sometimes like, ah, what's going to happen?

[00:47:27] But through my whole life, whether I've been broke, 100 grand in debt-- I've been homeless. I've run the gamut in terms of my survivability and having my needs met in the material sense. And literally none of the shit I've ever worried about when I've been broke in debt has ever happened.

[00:47:48] Elizabeth: Exactly.

[00:47:48] Luke: I've never slept under the free-- I've been homeless, but I slept in a garage. It was cold, dirty. There were a lot of spiders. But no one's going to attack me or rob me like they might under a bridge somewhere in a homeless shelter. So it's like everything I've ever been afraid of in terms of being in poverty, being poor, losing all my shit, all my resources, having no money, it literally never happens.

[00:48:11] Elizabeth: Right.

[00:48:11] Luke: Things get a little tight and you go, "Ah, what if they canceled my insurance or I can't pay this or that?" I used to get eviction notices like every three months back when I was a wild man in Hollywood. And it's like I get the eviction notice, freak out, and then-- my rent was $450 for a little studio apartment behind the Chinese theater.

[00:48:32] And then just like, I don't know, whatever. I'd sell some weed. I'd hustle a little bit. I'd pay the rent. I never did get kicked out or even taken to court. So I think that's a really important aspect of this, is really looking at our relationship to survival and that animal part of ourselves that just wants to live and breathe and have food and water, et cetera, and shelter.

[00:48:55] It's like, what if, to your point-- I want to go further with this. What if we divorced ourselves from that relationship and decoupled those ideas? And if so, how do we do that? It sounds impossible to me because in the "real world," our safety and security and survival is intrinsically linked to our resources.

[00:49:19] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. I'll give you an example in my life. One of the ways that I did it is-- to walk away from the job that I walked away from basically on the trading floor, I make it sound like, "Oh, I just did this and just did this." The reality is I did have to talk myself into it even when the money was there.

[00:49:43] I had worked all that time to get to this coveted position. And there's a certain level of even brainwashing that goes on in a corporate situation like that. Like, I had this job that maybe everybody wanted. And then I have my family going, "Are you crazy? They're paying you six figure bonuses. Where are you going? Why is your life so horrible, Elizabeth? You travel all over the world. You do whatever you want to do. What are you doing?"

[00:50:11] And I remember thinking, well, what if I do this, I give up this card, and then what if all the real estate goes away? What if the investing account goes away, blah, blah, blah? And I remember I played this game with myself. I bought an Airstream, and I paid cash for the Airstream. And I thought, you know what? What a great life if that did happen and I just around in my Airstream, and I just kind of traveled and did that type of thing?

[00:50:48] It wasn't that I wanted to do that. It was that feeling in that connection of, that's the worst-case scenario. And I think sometimes we get into this, like, we feel like we only need to focus on the positive, the visualizations, and imagine that you have it and blah, blah, blah. But I think that there has to be a balance too, is that unless we're willing to go, let me just play out the worst-case scenario here, we can't get our brains around it.

[00:51:22] Sometimes even with investing, unless you're willing to look at what's the cost of you not investing, well, the cost is you have to rely on earned income for the rest of your life. And as Warren Buffett says, there's no way you're not going to work until you die if you don't invest. Because mathematically, doesn't make sense.

[00:51:42] So I think that there's a balance there, and I think that part of our own evolution is being responsible for educating ourselves internally to a certain degree with being in reality with what is and not being always so far out in the vision. Vision it but then bring it back into reality from a place of neutrality, and everything's going to be fine.

[00:52:11] Luke: When it comes to mindset, what do you think is behind the phenomenon of lottery winners who are poor and win the lottery and are poor again in short order after winning the lottery? And also many of them are suicidal. They have all kinds of problems. What's up with that mismatch of consciousness and sudden wealth, and why do they revert back to where they started?

[00:52:41] Elizabeth: Same thing as we started with. It's not within their normalization. And so when something comes into our world-- for them, it's like if someone walks in the room and they say something horrible to you that's hurtful, or they're an asshole or something. There's an energy there.

[00:53:04] And so what happens is when you give someone a lot of money and they don't know what to do with it, like it's not part of their world, it becomes stress. And what do we want to do? We are animals basically. You see a swan. What do they do? They shake off the stress. That's what people want to do.

[00:53:22] And a lot of people don't even want to attract money because they feel like it's just going to be more problems, more stress, more decisions, more all of that. But yet they vision into all of this money. So it's exactly the same concept. It's just happening in reverse.

[00:53:38] Luke: Yeah. I've always found that to be strange. Because, of course, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking, man, if I won the lottery, I'd be golden. You know what I mean? I would never end up back in the same place because I would invest it here and there. It's like I would just grow it. That's what I think.

[00:53:53] But I've always found that to be interesting, just when people are in a certain consciousness and their external changes dramatically and they're just sucked by this inertia back into where they started. It's really interesting.

[00:54:07] Elizabeth: Yeah. It's almost like, and maybe some of them do this, but if they could get the money and then even get it out of their frequency, have someone else manage it or something. And I actually think that's why investing accounts work. There's a lot of wealth just because people have 401(k)s.

[00:54:25] So what happens is they can have the shittiest money beliefs and or habits or whatever, but because they have had this money that has been taken out of their paycheck without them seeing it, and it's then being invested by basically someone else, the financial manager, it's out of their frequency.

[00:54:48] And I think that even people, while they're-- that's why I feel so strongly about investing as well. That's one of the reasons. Even while you're working on your money stuff, if you could just take some and just invest it just to get it out of your world, it would benefit you.

[00:55:06] Luke: That's awesome. I do that. You just reminded me, I need to set up an Auto-Buy on my crypto app for Bitcoin. I was doing that for a while. It was like it was never there, so I didn't miss it. You know what I mean? Even if Bitcoin's fake and just turns into zero someday, which I doubt, based on smarter people than I that tell me it won't, I don't know.

[00:55:29] It's like if I can still live and miss it, I feel like, say I draw 1,000 bucks a month or something, and I'm just like, I don't know. It's not really going to make a huge impact on my day-to-day life. If anything, maybe I work a little harder or smarter if I start to run short because of that 1,000-dollar debit every month, but it's not really hurting to risk it.

[00:55:50] And I never think about it. And I think about it, it just creates a vacuum where a new $1,000 needs to come fill that spot. And then hopefully, maybe someday, that $12,000 I put in that year is 50 or whatever it is. It's like, cool. That's great. Because it's like it was never even there to begin with.

[00:56:09] Elizabeth: Yes. That's your normalization. Right?

[00:56:12] Luke: Got it.

[00:56:12] Elizabeth: And it's like if you ask people, if I ask someone, if I say, "Is it hard to make $100 a month?" They'd go, "No. God, it's so easy to make $100 a month." Is it hard to make $100,000 a month? Yes. It's easy to make the money that they don't think about because they've already assumed that it's just their normal way of being.

[00:56:34] Their expression, the frequency that they're on and the way that they're self-expressing themselves is going to bring that in. And it's really simple because all we're doing is we're just switching so that the new self-expression brings in whatever amount with the added zero.

[00:56:54] Luke: How would you define true wealth and abundance?

[00:57:00] Elizabeth: Full choice. The choice to do anything. I think that's what people are really looking for. Especially because we are expanding in consciousness, I think that people want to be out there more. They want to be helping people more. They want to be connecting more. I think the choice to get up and just do what you want to do. Do you want to help someone? Do you want to just do nothing? I think that's true freedom.

[00:57:30] And if we saw the path, if we saw the path to get there as having a certain amount of money that would support that, then I think that we would have a different relationship with money. We see it's okay to fill the fridge with groceries because we want to have groceries because we know that we want to work during the week or do whatever. So we feel okay about that. But we don't really feel okay about the fact we need to be supported. Our lifestyle needs to be supported. If you like massages or you like organic food or whatever.

[00:58:07] Luke: You know what I like?

[00:58:09] Elizabeth: What?

[00:58:10] Luke: Flying private.

[00:58:11] Elizabeth: Yeah. Then that's one of the things.

[00:58:14] Luke: I've talked about it before on the show, but that pretty much to me is the only good reason I can see to just have ridiculous wealth. To just not have to deal with the TSA. That alone is priceless to me.

[00:58:27] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[00:58:28] Luke: And I've only paid for one flight once. It was when my dad was dying and it was just an emergency. So I flew to Florida, and I was like, "Oh, now I see why so few people fly private." It's hella expensive, but only because I think it is.

[00:58:42] Elizabeth: Exactly.

[00:58:43] Luke: You know what I mean?

[00:58:44] Elizabeth: If that was your standard--

[00:58:45] Luke: I think it was 20 grand one way, and I was like, "Holy shit." But to someone who has a different mindset, that's like $200. You know what I mean? It's a holy shit to me because I hold it that way because of my current circumstances. That is not something right now that I would be able to do on a regular basis without really do harm to my situation.

[00:59:12] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:59:13] Luke: But I'd like to be in a place where that's just like, yeah, of course. Bring a bunch of homies. Include other people in that experience. But to your point of it, equating to freedom, that's a huge metric of freedom, the ability to travel from one place to another with less pain and friction.

[00:59:32] Elizabeth: So do you choose it because you said you would like to do it? Do you choose it? Are you choosing it? Will you choose it in this moment?

[00:59:41] Luke: Yes, I will. And as I choose it, there's a little voice that's like, "Only assholes fly private." I'm serious. That's the kind of programming in my mind. Still, it's that thing I was talking about earlier. It's like, well, that's those gross people that can do that and do that. And it's like, ah, man, I'm from the street. It's like, [Inaudible].

[01:00:03] But I also really have a hard time traveling. I like to go to different places, but man, as I get older, dealing with the shit and commercial travel, it is brutal. It makes me not want to go anywhere. I have a hard time with it for a number of reasons.

[01:00:21] Elizabeth: What if you knew how many people you would inspire by literally taking on that standard, choosing that, going so outside of yourself? Because that's what you do. You inspire people. What if you took that on to inspire people?

[01:00:34] Luke: I hope so. On a good day. Yeah.

[01:00:36] Elizabeth: You described the business and the podcast, and the reason you do it is because you're creative and you're wanting to connect with people and help people. You choosing to fly private, what can come from that that is so inspiring for people? What could happen if you're out there and you're traveling more than you are? Do you see what I'm saying? Create from that.

[01:01:05] And then actually, what happens is you're creating in that way. And then that little voice that's like, "The asshole does that," it doesn't have room anymore. So that's your responsibility is to create it. And then that will automatically go away.

[01:01:23] Luke: I dig it. I'm in.

[01:01:26] Elizabeth: You're going to have to tell me when you do it.

[01:01:29] Luke: The other major resistance I have is people that flex and take private flights and post them on social media. It's like that thing. I'm very judgmental against that showboating type stuff, which I admit I own. I would like to not be judgmental, but that's one of those things I'm just like, "Oh, that's so cringe."

[01:01:50] Elizabeth: Yeah, I've fallen into that too because I think sometimes things like that can actually hurt people more than it helps people. So sometimes if you post something like that, or people who post things like that, it can bring up lack in people. I'll give you an example. When the whole thing about the tariffs came out, everyone was like, "Oh my God," and then the market dropped.

[01:02:19] So there were a lot of financial people, and I'm talking big name people who came out, and they were scared. They were in fear. One of them in particular was like, "You need to increase your emergency fund from three months to 12 months. Look at what's happening in the world. Everything's going to shit, blah, blah."

[01:02:43] Not to say that's not true, and that's that person's truth. To be honest, Luke, it broke my heart because I was like, that is not helping those people right now who are scared. Why say that? Why not give them something they can do right now that is actually accessible to them? They cannot increase their emergency fund from three months to 12 months overnight.

[01:03:10] That's only going to put them into a state of fear. And so I think that's what keeps us in survival with money, is that there's so much subconscious still to this day, framed as like looking good, airy fairy, but they're still got this underlying lack. You need to look better. You need to be somebody to do it. You're not that yet. You need to wait. All of this. There's still a lot of suppression in just even regular social media stuff that's going around with money right now.

[01:03:45] Luke: What's the relationship between someone having a fear of poverty and a fear of wealth?

[01:03:54] Elizabeth: Having a fear of poverty and having a fear of wealth?

[01:03:57] Luke: Yeah. We know why we're afraid of pro poverty, because we went into that. Ultimately, your physical safety and security is going to be threatened. But it seems to me that those might exist on opposite sides of the same coin. Fear of wealth, what does that mean?

[01:04:15] How am I going to relate to people that know me as someone who was poor and now I have money? Am I going to lose my friends? Do I perceive some higher level of accountability, responsibility, a burden in being wealthy, that kind of thing?

[01:04:30] Elizabeth: Yeah. I think it's people are afraid to give up who they are, whether you're talking about being wealthy or poor. I really think it's the same thing. We just don't want to give up who we are. And there are good things about who we are, and there are shitty things about who we are. We all have that. But we get really attached to the good things about who we are.

[01:05:00] And I think we even call it authenticity and things like that. But I think what we're moving into is it's still identity. It's still ego. It's still all of that. If you don't want to drop who you are, whether it's poor, wealthy, good, bad, then you're still stuck in your ego.

[01:05:28] Luke: So both sides of that coin then could just be different variations of ego identification.

[01:05:34] Elizabeth: I think it's the same conversation, honestly.

[01:05:36] Luke: I'm going to stay poor because I want to keep it real. I think this is big in--

[01:05:41] Elizabeth: Cultures.

[01:05:42] Luke: Yeah, in cultures and also in the world of spirituality and spiritual teachers and things like that. It's that old school, the renunciate archetype. You're the yoga teacher. You just have a little modest place. You drive an old car. You're just all about your devotion. And it's like to show any sort of materialism or any value in the realm of finance would put you in the, oh, show with 50 Rolls Royce and Diamond rings category.

[01:06:19] Because that so many earnest and authentic spiritual leaders have fallen prey to the seduction of materialism and greed and exploiting their followers and all this kind of stuff. I think it's like some of us, not that I'm a spiritual teacher. I don't wear the orange robes and things, but at the core of what I do to me is really that.

[01:06:43] But it's like, I think some of us don't want to be seen as one of those type of spiritual people that have that side to them, or the potential for that side. And maybe even within that, to your point there, there's an identification with I'm the modest spiritual person who has no attachments to the material world and money essentially.

[01:07:06] Elizabeth: Yeah. And then we could go into like, is it that they're attached to, I have no money. I'm more spiritual. Or is it they're deeply afraid that there is a part of them that will cross that line. Because there's nothing spiritual about the denial of abundance. And not having money is the denial of abundance.

[01:07:32] So if someone doesn't want to have more money in their life, then are they afraid of themselves? Are they afraid that they'll go across that line? I think that is more of the deeper conversation. And really, in reality, has nothing to do with money.

[01:07:54] Luke: Meaning, do they have some fear or a knowing that there's a shadow aspect of their persona that could be corruptible?

[01:08:05] Elizabeth: Yes, exactly. I think that's what they're avoiding.

[01:08:08] Luke: Interesting.

[01:08:10] Elizabeth: Yeah. I think that's what they're afraid of.

[01:08:13] Luke: Interesting.

[01:08:14] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:15] Luke: Let's unpack another belief that I've wrestled with that I think some people in the spiritual realm might also hold. It's like most of the teachers that I've had that have been the most impactful in my life in terms of my own growth, healing, and evolution, if I've worked with them directly, they've done it for free. Through addiction recovery and things like that, which is really where I cut the teeth of my character and moral compass for 20-plus years.

[01:08:52] Or it's like my favorite teacher of all time, Dr. David R. Hawkins. He retired from a massive psychiatry practice that he had for 50 years or something. And so he started writing books about spirituality and then eventually doing lectures. And the lectures were basically break even, pay the staff.

[01:09:14] Because he didn't need the money. I remember going to see him, and he would talk about that and how legitimate spiritual teachings shouldn't cost money. And it's like he got paid the bare minimum to do his thing. And I thought, wow, that's so honorable and noble. So many of the teachers from whom I've learned so much didn't have sales funnels, and they coach coaches that teach coaches to coach coaches and like all of this monetizing modern structure that we see a lot, especially in Austin now.

[01:09:50] And so I bristle a little bit at people that are teaching psychology, self-improvement, spirituality, and they're doing it in a way that's heavily monetized and strategic. It still feels a little bit cringe to me, and I'm a little mildly judgmental on that. And if I think about doing something like that, I'm like, "Hell no."

[01:10:14] And I think a lot of us that have a lot to offer, we've taken some licks in life and accrued some wisdom through our experience and study and devotion and surrender and all of that. I know a lot of people don't feel like it's appropriate to get a lot of money to share that with people.

[01:10:34] I don't know what the exact question is there, but if you look at the 12-step model, you're hopeless. You're broken. You go sit in a room with some people, they all give you love, time, energy, help for free. You evolve, you change, you heal, you pass it on to other people, and so it goes for 90 years or however long that's been happening.

[01:10:58] But no one's getting paid. The organization doesn't make money. It's built to never be corruptible. No one owns it. It's not profitable. It's a really interesting model, and there are no rules. There's just traditions that are recommended so that it doesn't destroy itself and eat itself from within. That feels really clean to me. And I benefited so much on both sides of that equation, whether I was giving or receiving, right?

[01:11:23] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[01:11:24] Luke: It's like, well, then how do you eat if you really adhere to that? So it's like compartmentalize that part of my life, like, yeah, over here no one's paying anyone and it's all well and good, but what if I want to take some of the wisdom that I've earned through living that life and then go into the sector of profitability? That, to me, just feels gross. I don't know how I would do that or how I would be okay with that. Does that make sense?

[01:11:53] Elizabeth: Yeah, yeah. It makes sense. It's such a good conversation.

[01:11:54] Luke: And you could apply that probably to someone who's gone to India and studied with their master for 15 years and they feel weird about coming back here and opening their little ashram or center or whatever and making a bunch of money. That would feel like a betrayal to their lineage or something.

[01:12:10] Elizabeth: I think you can approach it two different ways. One, I think people are so out of integrity with money that it's just like we are just gun-shy to that. You talk about they can have programs that they do for free or very little money or what have you. That in itself can be a business model to a certain degree.

[01:12:34] Anything can be its own business model if you're willing to find the profit somewhere else, then. That's what I see a lot of spiritual people do. So what they do is they will start a spiritual business and then they'll want that to pay off their credit card, or they'll want that to pay all their bills.

[01:12:52] So what they're doing is they're introducing this need into something. They're creating a business with full great intention, wanting to deliver value, yet they're bringing a lack, need into it because they need it to pay the bills. And so if you think about that, there is a mismatch there if we're really being real about that.

[01:13:15] What if you didn't put the responsibility of your passion business to support you? What if you didn't? What if you took on the responsibility that you're going to have your financial needs met somewhere else? And then you can have that freedom in that. So that's one way to approach it. You could also approach it if you wanted to get really, really clean and bring everything together so that there's no difference in money or the value that you're giving.

[01:13:45] If that's true, you could approach it that way and say, "If you see these models as being anything different, then it's just the stuckness within you." And the stuckness within you is the mirror for your own spiritual growth. So it becomes very meta. So your belief, anyone's belief about like, okay, you don't want to have a spiritual business that's this huge profitable business, why not? Why not?

[01:14:20] If you're going to do something good with the money or if you're going to even just let the money sit there, why does it have to-- if you're truly just moving energy, you wouldn't have so much judgment on it.

[01:14:35] Luke: Totally. And there are examples of that being modeled by people for whom I have a lot of respect. Like Dr. Joe Dispenza. I'm guessing he probably makes a lot of money. He's probably very wealthy. His events are really expensive.

[01:14:50] Elizabeth: Eckhart Tolle.

[01:14:51] Luke: Yeah, yeah. Tony Robbins. There's a number of people. I don't respect them any less because, God, what an incredible amount of value they're adding to the world. And how many lives have been changed as a result of their energy and creativity and ambition? So great, man. Joe Dispenza, if you're a zillionaire, good on you. I have no problem with that. Right?

[01:15:14] Elizabeth: Right. But why for you?

[01:15:16] Luke: I don't know.

[01:15:17] Elizabeth: Why?

[01:15:17] Luke: That's what we're unpacking.

[01:15:21] Elizabeth: Eckhart Tolle talks about this actually. He's actually the closest that I've seen out there doing what we're talking about, which is the full merging of the value that you put out into the world, and then money coming back to you.

[01:15:39] And he says this. He says, "Basically, I just go up on stage and I sit in a chair and I talk." That's what he does. But also, he lives in a condo in Canada, he and his wife, and he gives away the money anonymously. He doesn't even want anyone to know that it's from him. And so he supports all of these organizations.

[01:15:59] What's wrong with that? I would rather someone take that model on than take on the model, let me continue to exhaust myself and try and figure out a way to be more spiritual and be poor. I'd rather see and take the Eckhart Tolle model on, please.

[01:16:21] Luke: That's great. I like that. Yeah, that's really good. I love this area of this topic because I'm sure I'm not the only one that's contemplated these ideas of people listening. And it's interesting too, because you think about-- use the example on this thread, the corrupt, phony, megachurch pastor, who's just exploiting the shit out of his congregation, getting people to donate for Jesus, and he's riding around in a limousine and private jets and just living large. He is totally out of integrity.

[01:17:00] Elizabeth: Starch pants.

[01:17:01] Luke: Yeah, the whole thing. Versus your neighborhood, little Baptist church. They have a pastor, and if he goes and gets a job at Home Depot because he doesn't want to take the contributions from the members of the church, then how is he going to be able to be of service to the congregation and be there for his flock?

[01:17:20] So there's something very like pure and integrous about that, but for some reason, we see a huge gap in integrity between those two extreme examples. So it's like, oh, okay, we're okay with the pastor down the street getting to a certain level. He could feed his family and have a modest home, but if he gets rich, fuck that.

[01:17:40] Elizabeth: Exactly.

[01:17:41] Luke: Then we categorize him as the gemstones or whatever that show on HBO. Great show, by the way. Isn't that interesting though? It's like a relativism there in terms of our perspective and what we as a collective perceive to be within the bounds of integrity versus out.

[01:18:00] Elizabeth: Yeah. Because we're searching for our own new identity with money. Because if we were really being clean about it, there's assholes everywhere. Why are we putting so much focus on that person's doing that with money and that person's doing that with money? You go to the grocery store, and you've got one checker that's the nicest person in the world, and one checker that's an asshole.

[01:18:22] We don't care. Why do we care about this? It's because some part of us is lacking, and we're looking for a new definition. There is a void in us that we're trying to fill. We're looking for a model outside of us instead of money is energy.

[01:18:42] Luke: That's good. Damn, your shit is so awesome. It's cracking my paradigm open. I'm like, "But how can these both exist?" Another idea came to mind is we see that, okay, there's wealthy people that are totally corrupt and they're assholes, in your words.

[01:19:04] And there's wealthy people that are doing amazing things in the world, are just beings of light and spread their abundance with everyone else, and they're awesome. When you go into an impoverished area or country, you're going to meet beautiful people that have zero money, that are amazing, giving, loving, kind, spiritually tapped in, and you're also going to get robbed by psychopaths, or worse, murdered.

[01:19:29] So it's like you can go to any strata of human culture and find as wide a strata of character and morality regardless of what their relationship with money happens to be. So is your thing, I think what you're saying, if I get this right-- and please correct me where I'm wrong and expand on it-- but it's like, what if we wholesale throw all of that away and just carve our own path and our own relationship and make it what is meaningful and within the vision of our own integrity?

[01:20:09] Elizabeth: Yes. And go back to that karmic relationship that you just described, which was so beautiful the way that you put that together. Because if we're always using that as our model, that it is that relationship, it's that energetic relationship, then we can so clearly see when our own stories of survival and lack and trying to fill something within ourselves are coming in.

[01:20:33] Because the moment that I see money as something that I need to bring to me, it's like, if I need to go out and get money, then I'm in the old world again. Just like you can't get love. You invite love in. If I truly believe that money is energy, I actually can't get money. I invite love in. I invite money in.

[01:20:54] Luke: That's great. Right. It's like you don't hustle and grind to get love.

[01:20:59] Elizabeth: No, you don't. We've all tried that, and it doesn't work, and it's miserable, and we end up heartbroken. Right?

[01:21:05] Luke: Yeah.

[01:21:05] Elizabeth: It's miserable.

[01:21:06] Luke: Yeah.

[01:21:06] Elizabeth: No, but we do that with money, and people do that same exact thing, and they do it for their entire life.

[01:21:14] Luke: Going back to when you were defining wealth and abundance through the lens of just freedom, choices, I think is the word you used. I like that lens because that's going to be different for every person. So it's more of a subjective experience than it is objective, whereas what you feel like you need in terms of your monetary situation to have those choices, those are your choices, and that's going to look different.

[01:21:46] You might make 100 grand a year, and I'm like, "There's no way I could have the choices I want on 100 grand a year. I've tried it. I was unsatisfied, and now I make more. And you might look at someone who needs to make a billion dollars a year and be like, "Well, I don't need that many choices."

[01:22:01] So do you think that it's relative and subjective in terms of-- putting aside all limiting beliefs and things like that-- but whatever our goals are and what kind of choices we want to make and what kind of freedom, that it's up to each person to determine what that looks like for themselves?

[01:22:21] Elizabeth: Absolutely. They have to. They absolutely have to because you can't actually choose something that is outside of you if you're really choosing it. So when I asked you and I said, "Do you choose it?" I don't know if you felt that, but what I was intending for you is like, "Oh, hell yeah. I choose it." You feel it go through you. When you really choose something, you don't have to think about it again. You don't have to pick up the phone and call someone and tell them about it.

[01:22:52] What happens when you really choose it, your energy gets behind it, and you become the self-expression of that, and you're really not thinking about it anymore. It has to be your own choice though. Because if somebody else's good idea, it's not going to be something you can choose.

[01:23:10] You can choose it in your mind, but you can't choose it down here. If you don't choose it down here, it just goes on a to-do list, and it just becomes one more exhausting thing that you have to do.

[01:23:23] Luke: I've got a friend who has a background in trading and stuff like that, as I said earlier, and he's been having a really beautiful awakening over the past few years and just reexamining what's important to him and how he wants to move through the world in a professional sense.

[01:23:41] And he's just started a hedge fund that's more, I guess, purpose driven, and things that light him and his team up in terms of just choosing what they want to get involved in based on a different set of criteria than was the old model, which is like, what are the numbers, yada, yada, ROI, all that?

[01:24:03] And he's like, "No, what really speaks to my heart, what makes it sing, it's more about that. And of course, the numbers have to make sense." But it's a new paradigm that he's exploring and probably spearheading to a degree, which I think is really exciting, and I'm really enjoying watching it at its inception and just seeing where it goes. If he was here right now, what advice would you give him as criteria or how to maybe hold that or ways to deepen that, expand into that?

[01:24:38] Elizabeth: Because he's getting other people involved in it, so he's doing it as a way. I think it's coming from his energy, so it's his choice. It's his vision. There's a level of certainty behind it for him. And so I would say the responsibility in keeping the energy, almost honoring the energy of that would be having other people join into that that also feel it at that level.

[01:25:14] Because I think that a model like that can continue to work, but a model like that is so strong and so amazing that you wouldn't want a dilution factor in that. For example, let's say that there's a company in it that you really like, and he's talked to you about it.

[01:25:36] Then what you're going to do is you're going to talk to someone else about that, and then that's going to resonate with them, and that's going to resonate with them. So it's going to build based on that. I think also, a situation like that, once you start something like that, it's like your podcast.

[01:25:55] You started it, and you knew what you wanted to bring to it. And so it's like your job is done at a certain point. People are going to line up with you, the value that you're giving, the connection that you're offering. They're going to connect to that, but then to a certain degree, your job is done. And the more you try and take it further, further, further, further, further, it's almost like the more you're trying to control things too. Does that make any sense at all?

[01:26:25] Luke: 100%. That's a great example because I think about this a lot. I don't know what do I want to do with my life. What's next kind of thing? And this particular entity, the podcast, it's very just automated. I have a great team, and one game I like to play with myself, is what can you delegate? And it's just like I'm clinging to one particular task for which I'm responsible, and I go, "There's no way anyone else could do this particular thing." Like making the notes for each episode, for example.

[01:27:03] I was like, "How would anyone else know what I want to talk to someone about?" It's impossible. You can't be me. Well, it turns out Jarrod can be me pretty well. So now that's really refined to the point where pretty much all I do as far as the podcast is give a thumbs up or thumbs down to whether or not I want to talk to someone sitting in that chair at this particular time, for whatever reason, which is my own internal secret sauce of intuition. It's really what guides that.

[01:27:30] And I'm pretty good at it because, look, here you are, and you're awesome. And then just getting myself in a state where I can hopefully have a really beautiful dialogue with someone. And no one else can really be me doing that. And there's going to be a certain number of people that enjoy the way I do that and resonate with it, and many people that don't. And I can't control that at all because I can't be other than me. Right?

[01:27:54] Elizabeth: Yes.

[01:27:55] Luke: So if that thing's percolating and going, then I'm like, "There's really nothing else for me to control or expand or scale." It is what it is. And it's going to reach fewer people or more people, and I can't really do much to control that because I can't be other than who I am. And a lot of what makes this grow or shrink is who I am. Do you know what I mean?

[01:28:17] Elizabeth: Exactly. Yes.

[01:28:18] Luke: So then I talk to someone like you and I'm like, "Cool, I have this thing down. What else do I have time, energy, and passion for?" Probably a lot of different things. So next question, to piggyback on what you might have to say to my friend who's starting this fund, is like shiny thing syndrome, and I might be inspired by a lot of different endeavors and people come to me all the time with this idea and that idea, and they want to partner and go here and go there.

[01:28:47] And it's like the discernment to determine what move to make next is sometimes difficult, especially if some of the moves are a really good excuse to avoid doing the hard, scary thing that's going to expand my capacity. It's super easy to play small when there's a lot of choices because you can pick the thing that you feel like you're getting something done. You have a new initiative, a new project. But is it really the thing that gets you out of your comfort zone and toward a growth edge just as a person, not even necessarily financially?

[01:29:24] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm.

[01:29:25] Luke: How do you determine what other outside shit you're going to get involved in or not? Or do you just like, I'm training people? And we're going to tell people how they can work with you and learn. You do your investing, whatever you're doing. Have you just found your lane and that's it? And if things come along that are shiny and interesting, how do you determine what you want to get involved in or not?

[01:29:45] Elizabeth: I can answer it based on me, or I can answer it based on you.

[01:29:47] Luke: Do both.

[01:29:48] Elizabeth: Okay. So for you, you're talking about, okay, so you have the podcast, and I love how you framed up, you figured out what you can do and what you're good at. And it's almost like then you elevate your responsibility to just do that, and then the whole thing expands. That way, it's a win-win for everybody because then you have amazing people like Jarrod who can do things, and you've got all this support system. Everybody wins, and you're giving more value.

[01:30:11] And you're spot on about that's a way to make something effortless, is it creates a win-win. Because then you have lots of energy coming in to support whatever the entity ends up being. For you to decide like, okay, what's next? You've got shiny object. You've got this, and you've got that. What do you really want at the end of the day?

[01:30:37] Visually, you might think of it in the future. You might think of it tomorrow. I can't determine that, but what do you deep down really want? I guess you can also say like, if there was a genie and a bottle and it was like, "Luke, what do you really want?" What would that be?

[01:30:53] Luke: That would be to spend more of my days in nature and less of my days in front of a computer.

[01:31:01] Elizabeth: Okay. So then every single thing that you take on is in honor of that, every single-- so this shiny object thing, you have to be so real with yourself. And you can't be real with yourself if it's about money. Most people really can't. But you've especially just proven that to yourself because of the fashion thing that you're talking about.

[01:31:29] So you know that you have to take money off of the table with it. So then what you do is you just assume that that is going to be a multimillion-dollar thing that you're going to take on because you know that whatever you're going to do, you're going to put 100% of your energy, just like you did with this podcast.

[01:31:47] You're going to do the same thing. If you're really there and you're really choosing it, everything that you do is going to look like this success model that you've created. So then you take it out of that, and then you can feel, is it really supporting that? And is it supporting you having that now? Because that's another thing.

[01:32:08] See the sneakiness in there of your own agreeance to wait, because you were raised, we were all raised as a stand in line child. Raise your standards. Like no, that has to do that. It has to at least have an element of that now.

[01:32:25] The second thing is, and this is what I'm always doing, it has to feel effortless. Maybe not at first. I might have to work a bunch of hours. If I can't see a path to effortless, and if I can't see how-- because I've designed my life based on the river. If I can't see that that stream is going to somehow, and when I say see it, I might not be able to like fully understand it, but I have to be able to feel like it's going to dump into the river, or I can't really do it. And if I do do it, then I'm doing it for the wrong reason.

[01:33:07] Luke: Are you in a place financially right now where you could just quit doing all work and just chill?

[01:33:12] Elizabeth: I could if I didn't want to travel so much. That's the thing for me. When I retired at 39, my cost of living was also a lot less. I have horses, so I got into show jumping and things like that. And so after I retired, actually, my cost of living went up. And so then there did end up being a discrepancy there.

[01:33:38] I have a fundamental understanding that wealth is not linear though, and I'm not expecting it to be, so it's always going to look like this, and it's always going to look like this. And the more that I'm okay with that, actually, the faster the growth curve is. It's really based on my lifestyle. I now want to travel more. I stay in beautiful hotels. That's just one of my things.

[01:34:02] Luke: I got to say, I like a nice hotel.

[01:34:04] Elizabeth: I like a nice hotel. I like nice products. I like nice hotels. But my truck is 2014, and I paid cash for it, and I love this truck. Again, it goes back to choosing. I don't give two shits about a car.

[01:34:20] Luke: Yeah.

[01:34:20] Elizabeth: But I don't judge anybody who has a nice car. That's great.

[01:34:23] Luke: I don't need new cars either. In fact, I've bought the same car. I think I'm on my fifth one of the same exact car. I was like, I don't know. If it starts having problems, then I get a new car. You know what I mean? But yeah, it's funny. It's dependent on what your choices are according to you. I have friends, they get the new Range Rover every single time. And it's just like, they enjoy it that much, that it's worth it to them. To me, that's just not. I'd rather have an experience than own a physical, tangible thing.

[01:35:00] Elizabeth: Yes. Yeah. And my cost of living has gone down. I recently moved to Tennessee. I told you that. And so now my cost of living has gone back down.

[01:35:09] Luke: Were you in California before?

[01:35:11] Elizabeth: I was in California, yeah.

[01:35:12] Luke: Oh yeah. That tends to happen.

[01:35:13] Elizabeth: On the big, giant horse ranch in San Diego. Yeah. So that's where the discrepancy was. Then I moved to Tennessee, and it's like my cost of living it's just so incredibly low now, to the point where my assets do cover everything that I want to do now.

[01:35:31] Luke: Awesome.

[01:35:32] Elizabeth: Yeah. But I can foresee a bigger life in the future. Do you see what I'm saying? I think that we have to be okay with, we're not looking for equal. We're actually looking for just a really effortless path to get what we want.

[01:35:51] Luke: Yeah, absolutely. What were your parents like in terms of their practices and mindset around money, and how did that impact you?

[01:36:01] Elizabeth: Money wasn't a big issue for my family. A lot like you, I grew up in a volatile situation as a child. There was a lot of drugs. There was a lot of violence. There was a lot of alcohol, all of that. But money was always there. Both sets of my grandparents had money, and they were always willing to give it to my parents when they didn't want to go to work and they just wanted to party and do all that stuff. And I had clothes and cars and whatever I needed.

[01:36:31] But I think that actually has positioned me in the world to help people with money because it's put me on a certain frequency with like-- I've always just seen money as a free flow. Not to say that I've always had money. There was a point in time where after I graduated college, just like a lot of people probably, I had credit card debt. I used to ride motocross, and so my whole life was motorcycles, and I had to have a truck that would go into the desert and all this stuff.

[01:37:04] And so it didn't work very well. And then the transmission went out and then I couldn't fix it and I couldn't get to work. And so I've had those times as well. But I never questioned it during that time. I didn't feel any different. I was just like, well, this is just that point in my life.

[01:37:23] I didn't see it. I don't attach money to the meaning of me. I can make more money or I can not make more money, and I don't feel any different. And I had a spiritual teacher tell me that one time. She's like, "You could sit down next to a billionaire, and it's the same." As you know.

[01:37:47] And I don't think that means anything about me. I think that just means that I have a different frequency with money that positions me to help people with money because I feel like I can get more into where they are with money. Where are you starting from? Because that's what's important.

[01:38:06] What I've done, I can tell you what I've done, and I can share my knowledge with you, but the reality is you can't go out right now and buy homes in San Diego for a third of the value anymore. So what I've done, and that's where I see people, a lot of times, they're sharing what they've done on social media. Like they own 15 Airbnbs.

[01:38:27] But the person that you're telling that, they can't do that right now. They have credit card debt. They're figuring out, how do they pay the bills. It's not that time anymore. I think it's more about, how do I translate the knowledge of what was behind that and put that over here with where you're starting from?

[01:38:47] And the only way I can do that, Luke, is if I get out of my own stuff. So me not having so much stuff is not better or worse. It just allows me to be more free to move into their zone, if that makes sense.

[01:39:00] Luke: It sure does. What about shame and self-sabotage related to limitations on generating wealth, but also on the cycle of continual debt? Which is something I've lived. It's very painful. And I just kept doing it to myself.

[01:39:25] Elizabeth: Well, people who have debt typically feel better when they have debt energetically, but in their mind, they don't. They're beating themselves up. To me, I think debt is money. I see debt is no different than having money in the bank. Debt is just someone at some point believed in you enough to loan you money, and you actually got something from that. So it's still money. And so debt is just no different of a habit than somebody that's a multimillionaire.

[01:39:56] It's just we're always defaulting to where we feel energetically comfortable. And because we're not in tune and because we don't see energy as money, there's the money here, and there's the money here. If you would spend more time adopting the fact that energy is money, then all that stuff would just naturally go away. We wouldn't be able to feel all of those things that you're actually talking about. I think Neville Goddard talked about like when he talks-- you do know Neville Goddard is.

[01:40:27] Luke: Mm-mm.

[01:40:28] Elizabeth: Okay. So it's the spiritual teachers from the '30s. And he talks about that you can't have two masters. And so you have consciousness and you have lack of consciousness. And so in order for one to live, consciousness to live, the other has to die. And it's basically talking about the concept that whatever you focus on grows. And so people are spending a lot of time trying to get rid of money beliefs.

[01:40:55] They're trying to actually fix their money systems with their mind, but their mind is where the money system is coming from. And so what it's doing is just exhausting people, and it's frustrating them. When in fact, you can only actually heal anything with money from pure creation, which is exactly the model that you did with the podcast.

[01:41:18] That's the only way that you can fix, is you have to get out of it, and you have to go into your own creation. And you have to choose your own creation no different than a sculptor. They're choosing to spend 18 hours a day on the sculptor. They're choosing that creation. They're not looking at, they don't have sleep. And then they become known in the world for the next 800 years, their legacy. They're living their legacy because they're basing it on the energy of that legacy. And then everything works out.

[01:41:57] Luke: If someone is in some degree of debt and are starting to adopt some of these principles or be one of your students, I get the sense that you're probably not like in the Dave Ramsey camp where like your entire life is about paying off every penny of debt then go from there.

[01:42:21] Elizabeth: I get a lot of those recoveries in the program.

[01:42:25] Luke: I used to listen to his stuff when I was in debt, and I was like, "Ah, I got to get to debt zero," or whatever it's called. And the strategy for paying down this card and then that one. And then all of a sudden, all five are paid and all that. And I think I applied something. It was useful. But even at that time, I was like, "Man." I'd listen to his radio show. I felt rich even being in debt compared to a lot of people that would call in.

[01:42:47] But I just thought, I don't know. It was very scarcity minded. That particular paradigm was just like pinching pennies. And it was very much like a constricted sort of energy. It wasn't an expanded kind of energy. And it was nice to get the debt paid off for me. But then I was still the same person that got myself into debt.

[01:43:13] So, as I said, there were a few cycles of that before I was fine. Like, all right, this hurts, man. One year I added up the interest that I'd spent on the 100 grand that I had in credit cards, and I was like, "You know what? I'm fucking done. Never again."

[01:43:26] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[01:43:26] Luke: I'm not doing this. Because I thought about, man. At least how I perceived it, that's at that time was like, how hard I had to work for that 20 grand that I just gave the big banks that are probably my arch nemesis. You know what I mean?

[01:43:40] Elizabeth: Yes.

[01:43:40] Luke: And so it took a few of those stings, but in terms of someone coming into this wanting to expand their understanding who still has debt, what is your general approach to that?

[01:43:53] Elizabeth: The Dave Ramsey thing, like you said, it can work. And if somebody is going on that route and they feel good and they feel abundant, I'm all for learn from who you need to learn from. But you're also right in that it's preaching scarcity. Basically, it's focusing on what you don't have. I have always told people, I would do both. And it goes against most financial people.

[01:44:20] Most financial people, because if you're just basing it on the math, you probably would want to pay off the debt. But I've always said, pay off the debt, and invest, and look at how you can open yourself to more income. In other words, you're just moving money around. Like I said, be responsible for money needs to move more so than money is missing here and I have to go over here and put something in this bucket. Now the market has done well, so it has really proven well for students.

[01:44:55] I had a student to see the other day who said, "Oh my God, I just paid off all of my debt because I took money from my investing account and just zeroed out the debt that my husband and I had, and I still have an investing account." So it's worked out. But it could be either way. My thinking on it is that an investing account is something that has momentum to it.

[01:45:19] It's abundance. It's something that you can energetically get behind. You can't energetically connect with lack because that's missing. So if I were to look at this, I would see the abundance in being able to pay off the credit card, and then I would see the abundance in the investing account, and I would look at them the same.

[01:45:43] And then I would look at, how can I open myself more in terms of income? Because that's a part of it as well? How can I see this as it's just energetic currency? Drop the stories. Depersonalize money. Drop the story completely, and go, so what? What if I do go sell that thing that's sitting on the table right there and I get $50 for it?

[01:46:10] I'm not going to get hung up on the amount. I'm not going to get hung up on the time. I'm not going to get hung up on the identity that I don't do things like that. I'm going to look at, I just literally traded energetic currency and put it over there, and I feel fucking good about it, and I'm leaving it.

[01:46:27] Luke: I love that. Beautiful approach. Man, you're giving so much gold here today. I'm so excited for people to be able to hear this.

[01:46:36] Elizabeth: Good.

[01:46:36] Luke: Because I know if I'm learning a lot and being really inspired, I'm sure I'm not the only one. You just reminded me of something, and I think this-- this is not a big deal, but if you asked your very traditional financial advisor about the plan, I'm about to tell you, I got one of those offers from one of my credit cards, those cash advanced checks.

[01:46:56] They send you some checks, and it's like 0% interest for a year, and I think it's 2 or 3% transfer fee or whatever, a one-time fee. And Bitcoin had taken a dip to, I don't remember what it was, but it dipped a lot down to 75 or something like that. I forget what it was.

[01:47:17] I saw those checks, and I was like, "Ooh, I could buy some shit." And then the angel on one shoulder was like, then you have to pay for it plus that 3%. And then I was like, what if I just bought some Bitcoin? So I did. I bought 36 grand of Bitcoin on credit.

[01:47:35] I just put a number in my head adding that transfer fee, whatever that was. It's still sitting in my Coinbase, and I'm like, 10 grand up, and I'll pay off, and I'm just going to pay back 36 and then leave whatever's in there. And then that's just free money that will also grow in its own little way, however fast 10 grand grows in Bitcoin land. You know what I mean?

[01:47:59] Elizabeth: Yes, yes.

[01:47:59] Luke: But it's that mindset. Is there a risk there? Probably a little bit. It could have gone way down, but eventually probably go up kind of thing. But I don't know. If you asked someone who is very traditionally minded, let's raise the stakes on that and add a few zeros, they'd be like, "That's the stupidest thing ever. Why would you borrow money and then invest it?"

[01:48:18] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[01:48:19] Luke: But if I had had a credit card that was triple that, I probably would've done the exact same equation, and I'd be sitting on 30 grand now instead of 10. You know what I mean?

[01:48:31] Elizabeth: Yes.

[01:48:31] Luke: So I like your maverick creative thinking in these ways because that's how I'm trying to teach myself to think in those ways too.

[01:48:41] Elizabeth: And you're bringing your creativity into it. And money in investing, it's not about avoiding risk; it's about getting behind it. So what you described is exactly what we talked about when we said, okay, so someone wants to go out there and they want to buy the brand-new dress because they want to feel abundant.

[01:49:00] Well, are you standing there buying the brand-new dress and then you're feeling like this gut punch because you're putting it on credit? Are you really feeling abundant? So for you, in that case, if you feel energetically like, wow, I feel good about this to a certain degree, it doesn't have to have no risk. Having no risk and feeling good about it are different things.

[01:49:21] Luke: Totally. That's great.

[01:49:23] Elizabeth: And so if you feel good about it, then you're choosing it, and you're getting behind it. Then when you choose something, you also don't have regrets. You cannot have a regret if you have fully chosen it. And those are actually, when you put your energy behind it, because it's creation, it's actually expanding. And so that is adding to those things working out.

[01:49:46] Because people are doing that. People, they're taking equity out of a house, and they buy another rental property. And they take equity out of that, and they buy another rental property. Can you get behind it, or are you doing it just because your buddy told you that he was doing it and you don't really understand it and you're just hoping it'll work out? Totally different.

[01:50:07] Luke: Yeah. To me, again, that's a relatively low stakes situation there because even if I had to pay the credit card back and everything went belly up, it's not the end of the world. Eventually, it would solve itself. But that kind of thing to me feels really good. I love doing shit like that. I think, thankfully, I have very low risk aversion. I'm not really worried about it. I don't think I can lose. You know what I'm saying? Because it'll just figure itself out eventually.

[01:50:36] Elizabeth: It's within your normalization. It's the same exact thing because the $1,000, it's going in there. You're just buying crypto every month. It's the same thing. It's in your normalization. So you can do the exact same thing, and you can add a zero. And the way that you do that is you say, where's the gap? You have the information within you to teach yourself where the gap is.

[01:51:05] Luke: The gap, where those zeros are.

[01:51:07] Elizabeth: Yeah. Add the zero, and there's the gap.

[01:51:09] Luke: Right.

[01:51:10] Elizabeth: There is your gap. And then don't go outside of yourself. You get real with the gap. And then even if you don't go all that way with it, can you go a little bit further with it? If you can't, why? Because there's something going to be in it that you're going to feel like is too big for you or the risk is too much or whatever, which is the exact same limiting factor that's keeping you-- and we all have these-- it's keeping you from also calling more money in.

[01:51:42] Luke: Beautiful. I have a feeling we've covered a lot of this, but give us the basic framework of your spiritual investor method.

[01:51:53] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[01:51:54] Luke: And then I want to let people know how they can work with you and all of that as well, which based on this conversation, I need to sign up. I talked to Alyson, "Yo, we need to do this." Because I think I've grown in my mindset, but I still feel like based on this conversation, I'm stuck in many ways that I am starting to realize, just from chatting with you for a couple of hours.

[01:52:14] Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. Thank you for that.

[01:52:16] Luke: Thank you.

[01:52:17] Elizabeth: Yeah. We're all just looking for the mirror. And I think that's what the program is. Honestly, it is a structure that's been put together that is going to be a mirror for someone, and it's going to do it from a place of not making you wrong, like forgiveness. It's going to do it from a place of ease. So then that's really when people come in.

[01:52:38] That's the first thing, is like, okay, you got to drop the bag of rocks. It doesn't matter what you've done up to this point with money. It doesn't matter if you're in debt. It doesn't matter what has happened. You cannot do anything. You cannot create with money if you're going to allow it to be colored from the past.

[01:52:53] So that's definitely the first thing. And that's usually the first step, would be clarity. And an easy way for people to even get started on their own would be, what is it that you're avoiding looking at? What is it that you're avoiding doing? You can go there, and that's its own portal opening with money, just getting clear with it.

[01:53:14] The whole program is based on five steps, and so one of them is clarity. Another one is opening yourself more as what I call the money conduit, which is opening you more to receive more income. Because a lot of people don't have money because of their ability to receive. But what they do is they beat themselves up and think that they're doing something wrong, or I need to have a new product.

[01:53:38] This product's not working, or I'm not spending enough time doing this. Well, it's not really that. It's just you can't receive money. And so then it's really looking at that. The third thing is expansion. So I teach people how to invest. To a certain degree, for every dollar that you have come in, there's really no reason that you couldn't have 2 cents of that or 5 cents of that invested.

[01:54:06] I say a dollar, but obviously you'd want to magnify it to, let's say every $1,000 that comes in. Is it really going to affect your life if you are taking $50 of that and putting that into investing? I've been buying stocks for years that are 12 to $15, paying 7% return. It's easy.

[01:54:24] They're out there. I think that people just don't know. So it's getting people into that, which then helps them step into their identity as an investor, and I can do this. So then they no longer see themselves as the outsider. Because a lot of people, they think they don't know enough to invest, and so they remain on the sidelines.

[01:54:43] Meanwhile, I think just yesterday the market hit another all-time high. People see that, and they go, "Oh shit, it's too late." It's not too late. You see yourself as an investor, jump in, and then you will be there for that next all-time high. I want people to have the feeling of being there when they have the all-time high instead of reading it and then feeling the regret about it. So to get them there, get them across.

[01:55:09] Luke: Dude, I relate to that. I had a couple of tech savvy friends back in LA years ago, two friends that are really into Bitcoin and crypto. I'm not a computer guy. I'd hear about it in the periphery. I had no idea what they were talking about. But two friends were really excited about it.

[01:55:27] And then at one point I was like, I'm going to call homie, and just like, what is this Bitcoin thing you're doing, whatever? Should I buy a little of that? I have a little money in my checking account, just sitting there, and he is like, "Dude, buy. Spend all your money on it." So I bought one Bitcoin. It was 7,400 bucks. Of course, now I'm like--

[01:55:49] Elizabeth: It's 107.

[01:55:50] Luke: Yeah. And I could have bought more. It would've been stretching things a little thin for that moment, but I was saving money to hopefully move to Texas and buy a house. So I don't know. I probably could have bought quite a few more, but that was one of those things where I was like, "I'm an outsider. I totally don't understand this, but I'm at least going to take one baby step of being an insider with my buddies that seem to understand how this works."

[01:56:13] And only looking back, I'm like, "I'm grateful. At least I got one. That's better than nothing." But it's also like, damn, if I would've had a little more faith in myself as the outsider and faith in my friends who seem to be doing well as insiders, I would've won even more. So it's like, hmm, that's a great lesson in that. And I also could have lost it all too.

[01:56:38] Elizabeth: You could have.

[01:56:38] Luke: And, oh well.

[01:56:40] Elizabeth: Yeah. And it probably wouldn't have affected you very much. That's the thing. And that's the thing that's like-- I think it's Jeff Bezos that says, he's like, "I cannot figure out why people don't invest." Because the downside is zero, which really, for stocks, it's not really zero because the company's going to have assets. Is it going to go zero? Probably not. But let's just say downside is zero. The upside is unlimited. Investing is so in people's favor.

[01:57:10] Luke: That's a great, great takeaway right there. And to that point, say Bitcoin was totally fake and a month later that $7,400 just evaporated. Would it have any impact on my life sitting here right now today? Absolutely zero.

[01:57:26] Elizabeth: Probably not.

[01:57:26] Luke: Zero.

[01:57:27] Elizabeth: Probably not. Yeah, that's one of the--

[01:57:29] Luke: Maybe if it had been 750,000, it would, but fact is that's what I felt comfortable with, and I wasn't terribly afraid to lose it. And so it was super easy to do.

[01:57:41] Elizabeth: Yes. And you've tapped into-- I don't sell a lot of stocks, actually. I get behind a stock, and once I choose to buy it, every once in a while I do, but I see it as like-- every investment I have, whether it's land or homes or stocks or whatever, I look at it like, you go, and you build a fire, and then you just keep adding wood. You keep adding wood.

[01:58:08] And you don't need to be tending the fire all the time. You just need to be adding wood. And so don't go into investing and then be looking at it all the time. Or don't be patting yourself on the back if it goes up. And don't be beating yourself if it goes down. You're not a financial wizard, and you're not a financial dumbass.

[01:58:28] You're investing. And that's what investing does. It just goes up and down, up and down. And all you have to do is just be responsible, keep putting wood on the fire. And it is miraculous what will happen.

[01:58:44] Luke: I agree. I'm OCD about the Bitcoin. I never spend it or something. I won't touch it. I've been in some pretty tight spots over the past few years where it's like, "Oh man, I could dip into the Coinbase or whatever." I think I have--

[01:59:00] Elizabeth: But you don't want to because you want to figure out another way. So do you see how having that asset actually causes you to be more creative?

[01:59:08] Luke: Yes.

[01:59:09] Elizabeth: Because you don't want to have the identity of the version of you that sold the Bitcoin.

[01:59:15] Luke: Yeah.

[01:59:16] Elizabeth: So you figure it out.

[01:59:17] Luke: And I won't touch it no matter what. I don't know at what point I will. If it's worth a million dollars, then do I take it out? Probably not. Because I'd be like, if it's already at a million, you know what I mean?

[01:59:26] Elizabeth: Yeah. I have certain stocks that I'm not going to sell. I started buying Nvidia. It was super, super low, and then it went up to $1,300 and then it split and dah, dah, dah. There's certain stocks that-- I don't know, same thing.

[01:59:42] Luke: I derailed you off your five pillars, I forget which one you were on, of the spiritual investor method.

[01:59:48] Elizabeth: Yeah, so clarity, income. So increasing your income, the money conduit. Expanding through investing. And then money neutrality is a big concept that I teach, which is basically just like going into complete connection with money being energy, which we've talked about here.

[02:00:08] So that money, it's the invite, when you're inviting money in and it becomes effortless. So I teach people how to do that. I do that a lot through practices within the program. So you're learning how to actually go out there and use the 3D tools, but you're learning how to do your own money practices and how to energetically, really, really stop trying to fix all of your conditioning because that's the long path.

[02:00:36] Instead, connect with money energetically. And then the fifth one, I call it breaking the structure, which is basically what we started with. You have to do something completely different than what you're doing now because your identity is so locked into the way that you're doing money right now that you can only play in that sandbox.

[02:00:58] And you might be doing really well but know that you don't have to give up the things that you're doing well. What you have to do is you have to get yourself-- you have to literally go out and get yourself into a completely different sandbox. Like what you did with, you called your buddy up and said, "What's this Bitcoin thing?" You went into a new sandbox.

[02:01:18] So it's like a gentle guiding, giving people the structure where they can start to do that. It's likely they're not going to do it on their own. You did it, but if you had the structure for it, would you do it even more?

[02:01:32] Luke: Yeah. Great point. Yeah, 100%. That was just me experimenting just for the hell of it. You know what I mean? There wasn't a lot of intentionality or planning behind it, and there was no structure. Actually, I just had the idea when I was like, "Eh, I'm going to make it--" You send a text or whatever, and then like, "Oh, what's the app? How do you do it?" It's like, then I did it, set it and forget it, and forgot all about it. I'm just like, "Oh, did that. Okay, cool. Next."

[02:01:57] Elizabeth: Yeah, I just love how you-- because I think that you have really shown people on this, how you connect your creativity with money. That's what's coming up for me because you're such a creative being. And your expansion of money is going to be in the realm of that, just how do you be more and more creative?

[02:02:17] And if you look at rooms full of wealthy people, they're not really talking about money. Unless you're going to give them an idea that they feel is going to capitalize on their creativity, they're not going to do it. It's like we think they're talking about money, but they have an understanding that money's just the result.

[02:02:33] Luke: Right. So tell us about your specific programs. What are the various levels of engagement available?

[02:02:41] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[02:02:42] Luke: And by the way, I forgot to mention this earlier, this episode's going to be lukestorey.com/-- guess what-- money. And then I've got also a link to your spiritual investor club and a code, which is LUKE. You get it first month free. But tell us what the offerings look like.

[02:03:01] Elizabeth: I would jump into that, the first month free.

[02:03:04] Luke: Okay.

[02:03:05] Elizabeth: The $17 is just getting started, investing, getting started with the energy of money. I teach people about the market. If you know something about the market, then you can actually bring your intuition into investing, which really is the future of investing. Because let's face it. You can't analyze the data more, you just can't, with AI and everything like that. Investing in the future is going to be very intuitive based anyways.

[02:03:31] So it's getting you started on that. A stock that I put in there last month, just a month ago, and not to say this is always going to happen because I don't have a crystal ball, it went up 53%. And I just put it in there four weeks ago. That's $17. So no matter what happens though, the stock could go down, the point is, get in there. Get started so that you can fill your own momentum for not very much money.

[02:03:58] The second tier, and that's around $200, and that is just basically all of the stocks that I invest in, all the investments that I have, whether I talk a bit about real estate. I have land that I'm generating cash from, things like that.

[02:04:12] We have deeper, more broad conversations, and I teach you about the economy. What's going to happen when interest rates go down? What would you expect the market to do? Just really fundamental so that you can have a broader understanding of it. And then the third tier would be the Mastermind.

[02:04:29] The Mastermind is a hands-on guided-- typically, people within week three, they're like, "Holy shit." I feel a little different kind of thing. And so I really, really get in there. Well, I get in there with all the groups, but the Mastermind.

[02:04:48] Luke: How long is the mastermind program?

[02:04:49] Elizabeth: It's 12 weeks. So we go about four weeks and then we have a break and then we go about four weeks. We have them just ongoing. So I do different start dates with them.

[02:05:03] Luke: Awesome, awesome. Well, we're going to link to those in the show notes. And I wasn't kidding when I'm like, "Man, I need to do this. This would really be good for me. Because in everything we talked about today, when I was talking about flying private, and you're like, "Do you choose that?" I was like, "That was so inauthentic and or not embodied." And I noticed that. I was like, "Hmm, why is that?" Oh my God. And it's not about the flying. It's about the block.

[02:05:34] Elizabeth: It's about the choosing.

[02:05:35] Luke: Yeah, it's about the choosing.

[02:05:36] Elizabeth: It's about the choosing.

[02:05:37] Luke: It's like, why is there a hesitation there? That's what it's about. I'm interested in unraveling that hesitation probably more than I am in actually getting on a freaking smaller airplane that's more convenient.

[02:05:49] Elizabeth: Exactly. And that's the thing that people find. They think they're worried about the money with the stock account. They're not. They're overjoyed that a stock went up. $100 that you make in an investing account that you've never made before is so much more meaningful than $100 that you just saved on a clothing item or something like that.

[02:06:13] Luke: Totally. That's so true. In my example of spending that credit on some Bitcoin for 36 grand, that 10 grand that I made is so much more fun than 10 grand that I busted my ass for and did however many podcasts. You know what I mean? I'm like, "Ooh, that's like the sweetest 10 grand ever."

[02:06:31] Elizabeth: Totally.

[02:06:32] Luke: Because it's the result of just a moment of creativity and inspiration. It's just truly a gift because the idea didn't originate in me. It came out of the ether. It's like, "Hey, Luke. Why don't you do this?" And I was like, "What did you say?" Wherever you it came from. I said, "Okay, I'll try that."

[02:06:51] Elizabeth: And you put your energy behind it.

[02:06:53] Luke: Yeah.

[02:06:53] Elizabeth: And you chose it.

[02:06:53] Luke: And that's what makes it fun.

[02:06:55] Elizabeth: Yes.

[02:06:55] Luke: It wasn't my idea. It's just an idea that was floating around, and I saw it and grabbed it with my hand and put it into my phone. And it turned into what we call $10,000, which isn't even real anyway.

[02:07:05] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. And it's so exciting to think about-- because I'd think about this with you, like, if you were to base your whole life on three of those things that you choose-- and you're exactly right. It's not about the flying. It's not about the private jet. It's your responsibility rolling up to the fact that you chose it.

[02:07:32] Luke: Yeah.

[02:07:33] Elizabeth: It's so powerful that all of the other stories and limitations and even things that we're trying to decide if we want to do, they won't have access to you. Because the choosing is so powerful, it's almost like a coat of armor, if you will. It's like the other things hit it and then they just-- it's like they just fall off.

[02:07:58] Luke: That's so dope. I'm thinking of very specific friends. I can't wait to-- I wish I got the edit sooner. It takes the team weeks and weeks. I don't even know when this comes out. It could be a couple months or something. Sometimes right when I'm done, I'm like, "I need this file tonight. I want to send it, backstage pass to a couple of my homies that I think would really resonate with it."

[02:08:19] But to that point about it's not about getting on a smaller, more convenient airplane, it's about identifying that there's a stuck point in there. There's a little bit of resistance, and ooh, that's very interesting to me. I think about that too. Go back to the flying private idea, just as a central point of focus. It's not, say I want a shitload of money so I can just do that and that becomes the norm. It's not about traveling in a certain way; it's about the feeling that I have when I travel that way.

[02:08:58] Elizabeth: Yes.

[02:08:58] Luke: And so what is in the way of me traveling in a way that feels the way I want to feel when I travel? It's also a feeling that I have in here that's like, ah, that's too audacious. Me, you know what I mean? It's really all you're saying. It's all energy. It really is all energy. And what is a feeling or emotion, but energy in motion? Everything we're talking about, if you take it into the metaphysical realm, that's all we're doing, is just playing with energy here.

[02:09:27] Elizabeth: And we can use money to do it. That's what's so beautiful about this. Because we're incentivized by money. We can use money to do that. So what you're really craving is-- we think you're craving the private jet. That's what it would seem like on the surface. What you're really craving is you are craving to know that version of Luke who is on the private jet and doesn't even really care about it.

[02:10:00] That's who you're craving. Because that's so outside of you, but that version of you is so powerful. And so by you choosing that version, it's like an invisible tether that you've gotten there. And what you might not realize yet, is that that invisible tether, you actually don't have to choose 50 other things because on your journey of getting to that, all these other magnificent things that you want and you have in your desire field will magnetize to it.

[02:10:33] So it's like we think, I'm only choosing that, but really, you're choosing that, but it's going back to that indirect realization that you're choosing that one thing. You're putting your energy behind it. But indirectly, all these other things are going to come in as well.

[02:10:51] Luke: Yes, yes. It's like an alteration to the field itself or my relationship to the field, which changes everything in the field, even if it's seemingly unrelated to this particular thing.

[02:11:04] Elizabeth: Exactly.

[02:11:05] Luke: Damn, girl. Man. I love the way you roll.

[02:11:09] Elizabeth: Thank you.

[02:11:10] Luke: I was just envisioning that flight. Unfortunately, the one time I did it was under the shittiest circumstances possible because it involved my dad dying. But I was thinking, well, what is that feeling? It's certainly not a taking a selfie on a jet. It's not that feeling. There's no grandiosity about it. The feeling is like, wow, how easy it is. You just pull up your car to this little parking lot.

[02:11:37] You valet it. Someone parks your car, takes your bag. You walk out onto the little runway, and you just meet the captain. He throws your shit on the plane. Dog's there. I got my good, bottled water and glass. Just no hassles, no stress. It's just fun, easy. I take a nap. I just walk around. I eat my own food. It's the feeling I have when I'm at home, which is the antithesis of the feelings I have when I travel.

[02:12:04] Elizabeth: Right. So what you're doing--

[02:12:05] Luke: It's a feeling of being at home.

[02:12:07] Elizabeth: And so what you're doing is you--

[02:12:08] Luke: But I'm moving quickly from one place to another that's quite far away.

[02:12:11] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. So you're actually craving the purest version of you because what you're doing is you're craving to get to be that version of you, to connect with that version. Because deep down, you know what that version of you could also do out in the world. Because if you are that powerful and you tap into that, it's like-- can you see where I'm going with this?

[02:12:39] You can also see what that version of you is going to do when it steps off the plane. You can also see what that version is going to-- because you're carrying that energy. So what we're really craving is we're craving that frequency. But we can't move through frequencies as we are here.

[02:12:56] We have to move through our own humanness here. So what we have to do is we have to position our humanness, and we have to have our humanness be the portal. But really, it's that portal, that energetic connection on that frequency as the persona of the human, as the persona of Luke sitting there.

[02:13:15] But you cannot connect to that from any lack. So that version, you couldn't connect to it when you were talking about, but only a greedy asshole. You couldn't connect to it. You can't create from that.

[02:13:29] Luke: No, no. Not at all. And to further your point, in this particular situation, because I felt closer to who I am in the experience of that travel and was just much more comfortable and nourished and felt at home, and I had my dog and my wife, and it was just a chill situation despite the fear and sadness around why I was going there, it absolutely contributed to my capacity to be present with and for my family with maximum energy, vitality, bravery, love, courage, the whole thing, the whole package.

[02:14:07] Not to say that I couldn't have brought some of that on a shitty commercial flight with layovers and maybe even missed the moment my dad died, that I happened to make it there for, which is one of the main reasons that I did it this way. But I felt great when I got off the plane. You know what I'm saying? It like, I usually feel like shit, and I'm smoked. There was no recovery. It was just like, cool. Okay, this is what's happening.

[02:14:28] This is pretty hardcore. Let's go. What is this about? Let's feel into this as deeply as we can and just be here for it and be here for my dad. So it's a real-life example of something circumstantial. That actually helped me be the best version and most truest version of myself when I got there on the other side.

[02:14:50] Elizabeth: It's amazing. And you just keep connecting into those things. And can you feel already that there's a part of you that now can't not do it?

[02:15:02] Luke: Totally. And I was afraid of that. Anytime I've expanded in ways like that, there's a part of me that's like, "Dude, don't do it." Because you're never going to be able to go back.

[02:15:12] Elizabeth: You can't. You cannot go back. Not only because you've said it here, but you yourself, you can't go back. I'm watching you, and I can already see that you can't go back. You're also, and I don't know if you're here-- you would only know if you're here yet-- but you hit a point where you can't also not have it not be a self-expression of you. Meaning you can't not talk to Alyson about it. You can't not see another opportunity as a function of it. You can't not think about it. You know what I'm saying?

[02:15:50] Luke: Yeah.

[02:15:51] Elizabeth: That's when you go to that next level, and sometimes you have to create that. No different than sometimes you walk in the room with probably Alyson, and you have to create a good scenario. You have to create a good environment. Maybe she needs you or something. You stepping into the responsibility to keep creating on an ongoing basis, creating the space so that this can step into your life, then what you've done is you've collapsed time.

[02:16:23] Luke: Oh, shit.

[02:16:25] Elizabeth: You've collapsed time.

[02:16:27] Luke: Damn, girl. I didn't know we're going to go into the DMT space here.

[02:16:32] Elizabeth: Oh God, I can talk about that. Yeah.

[02:16:36] Luke: No, but there was a time years ago when I was doing a lot of travel from New York to LA, and so my company, I had a credit card, a JetBlue card, and so I was like, wow. The overhead of that business was insane, and the margins weren't great.

[02:16:50] But as a result, I had a lot of miles. And then JetBlue came out with these seats called the Mint seats, which are these cool little cabins in first class and had a bunch of miles. So I took myself and my partner back and forth to New York on one trip in one of those. I never flew coach one time ever again after that unless my flight got canceled and I got bumped or something like that, period. That was the end of coach. I'm 6'2.

[02:17:15] Elizabeth: Yeah, yeah.

[02:17:16] Luke: I'm sensitive to EMF, all kinds of reasons why I'm not sitting coach in the middle of two smelly people or whatever. But to your point, there was literally no turning back at that point. And guess what? The resources magically seemed to show up to support that. Of course, they did. Which, for me, is usually miles. I'm big on the miles.

[02:17:38] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[02:17:38] Luke: But that's another real life example of that, of just thinking into your future self and expanded self and taking a little bit of an action that feels uncomfortable and maybe a little bit, I don't know, risky, but just excessive or something like that. And then you go, wow, I just tried something on. It actually fits pretty well.

[02:17:56] Elizabeth: Exactly.

[02:17:57] Luke: Oh wow. Cool. This is my new jacket. Okay, cool. I'm not going back to the sweatshirt or whatever. So, man, this has been so fun. Honestly, I could talk to you for the next five hours. This is so interesting. And I think has really-- well, I know has provided a lot of value to people. It's interesting that this is such a fundamental-- just wealth, finance, investing, all this stuff, it's such a fundamental aspect of our lives, and yet it's something that many people don't talk openly about in really vulnerable ways.

[02:18:33] It's like within family systems and just within culture, and I'm sure there's tons of great podcasts now on abundance and manifesting and finance and all that. I know you're not the only one teaching this kind of stuff, and I'm not the only one that wants to talk about it.

[02:18:47] But still by and large, it's like when I go hang out with my neighbors or if I go to an event and there's some acquaintances there, we're not getting into deep conversations about this. There's so much tied to it in terms of our self-worth and value and the--

[02:19:04] Elizabeth: Secret. It's like everyone feels like it's a big giant secret. Why?

[02:19:07] Luke: Like sex. Same thing. It's not a conversation about which many people are very open and transparent, vulnerable, willing to support other people or willing to receive support. And I feel like this topic is the same way.

[02:19:23] Elizabeth: It is. It's still very taboo, isn't it?

[02:19:26] Luke: Yeah, it's weird.

[02:19:27] Elizabeth: Yeah. I know.

[02:19:28] Luke: I guess it goes back to what you said earlier. It's so intrinsically tied to survival just as sex is on one level.

[02:19:34] Elizabeth: Yes. Yeah.

[02:19:35] Luke: It's like so easy to talk about things in the periphery of our lives, but when we get down to these core human values and functions of our experience here, we tend to keep that a bit more boundaried than I think it needs to be.

[02:19:54] Elizabeth: Yeah. And we have to say that that would change because I think the reason we do that is because we haven't brought consciousness into it yet. Everything we bring consciousness into, then we become one, like you were talking about. There's no separation. So we've got sex, and we've got money, which on a global level, we haven't brought consciousness into that yet. But I think it's happening though, to a certain degree.

[02:20:20] Luke: It's happening right now.

[02:20:21] Elizabeth: I know.

[02:20:22] Luke: It's happening today.

[02:20:23] Elizabeth: I'm so glad.

[02:20:24] Luke: I love it.

[02:20:24] Elizabeth: So glad.

[02:20:25] Luke: I love it. Thank you so much, and we're going to send everyone over to lukestorey.com/invest. There, we will have links to all of your offerings and so on. And I'm just thrilled we got to connect today. This has been amazing. So I'm going to close it with one question for you, three-part question, but one in total. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you'd like to share with us?

[02:20:50] Elizabeth: Ramana Maharshi, a Hindu teacher.

[02:20:55] Luke: Love.

[02:20:56] Elizabeth: You do. Really?

[02:20:57] Luke: Yeah. Real quick, there's a lot of great quotes of his. My favorite one, which a guest actually shared with me. One of his devotees asked him, "How do you deal with people in the world? People are so difficult. How do you deal with other people?" And he said, without missing a beat, "Because there are no other people." Damn. Boom. Mic drop.

[02:21:20] Elizabeth: I love it. And a mic drop. Oh my God. Thank you for sharing that. I love that.

[02:21:25] Luke: That's a good one.

[02:21:26] Elizabeth: Yeah, that's so great.

[02:21:28] Luke: Yeah. Oh, there's one more too. When asked, how do we solve all the problems in the world? We need to change the world. And he said, "Don't bother trying to change the world because the world you see doesn't even exist."

[02:21:40] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[02:21:41] Luke: I think what he's saying was the world that we each see is based on projection. We can't see the world objectively as it actually is because there's so many filters of projection in place for all of us. So yeah, he was a master. Anyway, that's one. Okay.

[02:21:57] Elizabeth: Yes, yes. One. Warren Buffett. Definitely.

[02:22:02] Luke: Appropriate.

[02:22:03] Elizabeth: Yes, yes. Absolutely. I think he is one of our greatest known intuitive investors. I love the way that he started buying Coca-Cola because he and his wife played Bridge, and he noticed that people just kept asking for Coca-Cola, or they'd be serving it. And he's like, "Wow, what is this?" And then Gillette. He invested in Gillette because he is like, "Okay, they're selling the right--" Have you heard this?

[02:22:31] Luke: No, but I can already tell where you're going with that because you're selling them the freaking razor.

[02:22:35] Elizabeth: Exactly, exactly. And he's like, "Well, that's a great business model." And so, is this a good thing?

[02:22:39] Luke: I've thought about that. I'm like, wait a minute. Okay, so it's like $3 for the one. As a man, when I used to shave-- I eventually quit. And then it's $13 for the little pack of razors. I was like, I see what you're doing there.

[02:22:52] Elizabeth: Yeah, exactly. So he just found things like that. And I have to say Eckhart Tolle. The silence that he brings in. I think that's also what we're getting into, is I think that we are tuning into being able to extract more from the silence. Our own silence being in listening. And so I think that there are so many more answers out there available to us through our listening if we're not coming into it with our own filters, as Ramana Maharshi, seeing people separate.

[02:23:37] It's a massive amount of answers that are available to us, but we're so focused on trying to figure it out from our own little world. But I do think that we're advancing beyond that. And I think Eckhart Tolle, the way that he brings silence. Yeah, so those three.

[02:23:58] Luke: Great. I didn't know much about Warren Buffet other than that. He seems to have cracked the code on wealth, definitely. But yeah, Eckhart Tolle. I guess he says Tolle. Other people say Tolle, Tolle. I've never been able to figure it out.

[02:24:11] Elizabeth: Me neither.

[02:24:12] Luke: But The Power of Now, when that book came out, oh my God, it changed my life. I'd never even heard the concept that there's a you that's observing the mind and a you that's observing the ego and the pain body. It was like reading that, going, "Wait, who am I?" The one exercise he gives in that, I think it's in that book, where he says, "Just stop for a moment and ask yourself what your next thought's going to be."

[02:24:35] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[02:24:36] Luke: And they said, "Who's the one watching?" What? Hold on. That was revolutionary to me at that time. And still is because I forget.

[02:24:45] Elizabeth: It still is. I know. The other day, I was thinking about this. I was like, "I live my whole life from the context of what's happening next?" That is an underlying silent conversation that goes on all the time. What's happening next? What's happening next? What's happening next? And who am I if that conversation isn't there? How do I feel about life? What would I do different? It's really interesting.

[02:25:21] Luke: Beautiful. Well, thanks for joining me today. It's been amazing.

[02:25:24] Elizabeth: Thank you. This has been absolutely incredible.