[00:00:01] Luke: All right, Brian. Tell me about this interesting piece of salt you brought me today. I feel like it's minimizing it to just call it a piece of salt. When you opened it up and said, I have a gift for you, I thought, wow, that's a really interesting crystal. But it goes beyond that. Tell me the story behind it.

[00:00:21] Brian: Yeah, I was in Egypt last year in the spring. I went on this wonderful trip. It was called Atlantis Rising. My friend Steven Young, who's actually based here-- you may know Steven.

[00:00:36] Luke: I met him. Yeah.

[00:00:38] Brian: He organized a trip that was just life changing, honestly. It was breathtaking. It started with us stopping in Damanhur, Italy. And we hung out at the spiritual community they have in west of Milan.

[00:00:54] It started by this guy Falco in the '70s. That's its own story. So we went there and we activated-- we did some meditation in their temples and we activated our, what are called chakra organs. So like the root chakra has a tail and the heart chakra has wings. And so we did all this really cool meditation and had this amazing interaction with some of the Damanhurians there.

[00:01:20] And then we traveled to Egypt with a Damanhurian Egyptologist named Crotolo and another Damanhurian named [Inaudible], who is a Greek historian, and she's one of the original founders of the community. We had this wild tour de force, 14-day odyssey through Egypt, where we got to go to all these places privately.

[00:01:45] It was like this dream spiritual journey through Egypt. It wasn't a touristy thing at all. It was deep and profound. And we had this guy, Crotolo, who had been there 40 times, knew all the guards, knew all the access, and also knew all the stories where we got to compare and contrast classical archeological explanations of the way things are, which is that everything there is only a few thousand years old, versus the alternate story, the more Atlantean story, which is that everything there is way older.

[00:02:20] And there's some archeological evidence of that. So the rock around the sphinx has geological rainwater wear patterns that date it 20,000 years older or even older. And by the way, the Damanhurians, one of their things is they're caretakers of Atlantean history. So they have gathered like all this spiritual knowledge from all these cultures across the world and put it back together along with certain insights that their founder remembered or channeled.

[00:02:55] And so they're these experts in Atlantis, which is a antediluvian civilization essentially. So we're in Egypt. We got to go to all these cool places, and so we're in the great pyramid and we're in the King's Chamber actually for over an hour all by ourselves. And we did some meditation and explore.

[00:03:13] Just had all this amazing exploration of the grounds. I talked about it a lot in my podcast, I think, with Josh Trent. And anyway, so we went to the basement, in this area that's a little more hidden, and there's all this broken alabaster everywhere and there's these all this archeology around you.

[00:03:30] It's really breathtaking. And the ceiling, there are these crystals forming of salt, and it's really weird. Nobody knows why the salt forms there exactly. And so this piece that you have, that I gave you is a piece of salt that formed in this secret area at the bottom of the great pyramids.

[00:03:52] And it's charged with all of the energy of the gray pyramid itself, which is itself like this big antenna, basically. It's a big dimensional antenna. Nobody knows how old they are, but they're way older than what anybody originally thought. And this salt forms there. And it's just beautiful, and you can collect it.

[00:04:14] Luke: So cool. I think that's the most dope gift that anyone has brought me. And I have has some cool stuff.

[00:04:23] Brian: As I was coming here, I was like, "Wow, I'd love to give you something." And I was like, "What would be?" And I was, "Oh yeah, that would be so cool."

[00:04:31] Luke: Yeah. Alyson's going to like this. I'm so afraid I'm going to break it. I'm not going to put it in the salt grinder and put it on my pasta. You know what I'm saying?

[00:04:41] Brian: Well, just holding it, it's charging you. Yeah.

[00:04:45] Luke: What if I just taste it though?

[00:04:47] Brian: You have a little lick of it.

[00:04:50] Luke: I feel like I could have a lick a month and it would last me 20 years. Oh, that's super cool. I love being the recipient of people's adventures and things they pick up. It's really cool. Yeah. I've never felt any real strong pull to visit Egypt, but Alyson certainly has for a very long time. So I sense that her desire to go there is probably going to manifest that for us at some point.

[00:05:18] Brian: There's definitely a piece of Egypt in all of us. As far as actual physical evidence of there being a very advanced antediluvian culture and civilization, that is the best example we have. There's some in Greece too, but all the stone work there is. Anybody who's interested, I encourage a trip to there at least once in your lifetime.

[00:05:45] There's something there that, yeah, it's in all of us, and it connects us to this history we have where we're finding more and more evidence of it. And also in Egypt, where they had just this understanding of mathematics, astronomy, technology that was way more advanced than could have possibly been developed in Egypt just in a few thousand years.

[00:06:09] If you go back to the first Pharaoh, he was born in this completely developed advanced civilization where they had art and mathematics and agriculture and all this knowledge that would've taken thousands, if not tens of thousands of years to develop.

[00:06:27] So there's something prior to that, and we have some evidence too in the Sumerian tablets, the clay tablets from Sumeria, which predates a little bit or concurrent somewhat with Egypt, where there's a lot more to the human race than is currently accepted.

[00:06:45] Luke: The more I learn, the less I believe in the official story of history. Just nothing adds up when you start digging. You dig in a little bit and you start to find things that you're unable to reconcile. I haven't gone deep into the Tartaria stuff too much, but few little dips just into that is really interesting in and of itself.

[00:07:14] Brian: Yeah, that stuff is wild.

[00:07:17] Luke: It's just like short little videos and memes. It's like, oh, so a hammer and chisel built this thing in three months? You know what I mean? It's like for the fact that there's no photographic evidence of things like the Brooklyn Bridge even.

[00:07:30] There's photos of some workers next to it, but there's no equipment ever. You never see anyone actually in the process of building some of these monumental structures and things like that. It appears as though many of these things were found rather than founded. You know what I'm saying? Or built.

[00:07:53] Brian: They were already there.

[00:07:55] Luke: It's really interesting.

[00:07:55] Brian: Yeah. I'll give you one more example of Egypt that's fascinating. So there's this temple in Southern Egypt called Dendera. And in it you can go into one of the sort of hidden tombs once you go into the temple. And there's a carving on one wall in this tiny little chamber that you have to bend over to get into.

[00:08:16] And there is a very clear carving of an Edison lamp. And inside the lamp is a snake. And the end of the lamp, the bulb, there's this cable that goes into what looks like a transformer, this thing with plates on it. Like you would see a transformer box for electricity.

[00:08:40] And there's this dude standing in front of it who has the head of a snake. He looks like an alien, and he's wearing armor, and he's holding knives like danger. And there's these workers that are walking around it. It's so clearly like some type of light technology that is being described that they were using. And it's right there in the carving.

[00:09:01] And there's also evidence of that. How do they carve all this stuff in these tombs, in these areas in total darkness? Some people say they use mirrors and stuff like that, but there's also an alternate story that they had some type of manmade light-emitting technology that they were using back then, and nobody knows how they did it.

[00:09:22] Nobody knows how they built some of these things, some technology to mold stone, some frequency or sound technology. Nobody really knows. But clearly, yeah, more evidence of, oh, here's a culture who just stumbled on something that was way older than them and they inherited it and used it.

[00:09:44] And it speaks to this hidden knowledge of all these things that we knew, that we forgot maybe. And now we're remembering. We're remembering that with light technology. We've had this relationship with light, and we're creating things that goes back like tens of thousands, maybe a hundred thousand years. We just don't know.

[00:10:11] Luke: When you were in Egypt, did you-- we're obviously going to talk a lot about sun and light and things like that today. Did you happen upon any specific locations that were dialed into sunsets or sunrises in an interesting way?

[00:10:31] Brian: Yeah, definitely. Northern Egypt is all about Cairo. But Southern Egypt, what's it called? The name escapes me. It starts with an L. It's where they all vacation. It's in Southern Egypt. It's the original cultural capital of Egypt. It'll come to me.

[00:10:51] Luke: Okay.

[00:10:52] Brian: Anyway, yeah, there's a temple system there that is completely aligned with the sunrise at the summer equinox. And it hits these statues. Really all the temples are like that. And they're also not just aligned to the earth and the primary luminaries of the sun and the moon, but also to the stars.

[00:11:19] So the great pyramids are aligned to Orion. And so there's the whole narrative there about Sirius and the Syrians who supposedly came and colonized earth. And the Egyptian culture and the Babylonian, the Sumerian culture was really seeded by extraterrestrials from Syria, Sirius A and Sirius B. But certainly, and not just in Egypt too, other cultures in the world, there's a lot of archeological alignment towards Sirius, the Dog Stars, bright star.

[00:11:57] Luke: That's so interesting. To think about the vast amount of time and effort that these ancient civilizations put into building these structures in such specific ways, having to do with astronomy, sun, the moon, it's just like, why would they do that? Just for fun or because they were ignorant and superstitious? To me that just points to how relevant these energies are to our lives and how disconnected we've become from them. I have friends, even my wife knows when it's winter solstice, the basics. And it's like, oh, today we can't do that because the moon's over here and that. I'm oblivious to all of that stuff.

[00:12:48] And when I hear stories like you're sharing and just watch documentaries about these things, I feel like I'm missing a massive part of the human experience by being, less tapped into that. The best I've been able to do, which is a great segue into many of the things we're going to talk about, but is really, over the years, I've gotten more and more dedicated with watching sunrises and sunsets, doing my sun gazing.

[00:13:14] And that's probably the most impactful thing I've done for not just physical health, but just emotional, mental health, mood, focused productivity, all the things that people try and biohack and figure out through very sophisticated technologies and supplements and all this kind of stuff.

[00:13:40] When people will write into the show and, "All this health technologies are too expensive. What are we supposed to do? What supplements can I take?" I'm like, "Literally, if you just build the discipline to watch the sunrise and find a place where you can do it safely, if you do that every single day for like three months, you'll be a completely different person." But people don't believe me because it sounds too simple.

[00:14:03] Brian: We all need firsthand experience. That's a challenge that we have. Everybody's looking for a protocol. Like, oh, what's Luke's protocol? And Luke's protocol is what you've figured out that works for you. And it's really an n equals one. We're all humans. But what we need on a particular day, whether it's, "Hey, I'm going to go use this song twice today and I'm going to combine it with my cold plunge." Or, "You know what? I need a break from this."

[00:14:33] Everybody needs to figure out for themselves what actually works. And a part of that process is for raising the awareness. If you live indoors and you're never watching the sunrise, you're not thinking about it. It's like the water. Once you get a nice filtered water system in your house, you're like, "Whoa, the tap water is just awful."

[00:14:55] You have to bring your attention and put intention towards bringing your attention towards something in order to realize and understand, oh yeah, there's a greater part of reality that I'm connected to. And the same thing with the sun and the stars and the moon as well. So the moon, for example, today's the New Moon.

[00:15:19] Luke: See, there you go.

[00:15:20] Brian: I'm going to help you raise your awareness.

[00:15:23] Luke: I'm always the last one to know.

[00:15:24] Brian: So today's the New Moon. So what is the new Moon? It's where there's a blank slate, and it's a time of rest. It's supposed to be more parasympathetic for women. You're supposed to absolutely be resting. But also for men, it's a time of renewal and of recalibration.

[00:15:42] So it's a great time to start new things and be thinking about new stuff. So yeah, it's a great day today to recalibrate our awareness towards light. And also the moon is really interesting. When it's the full moon, that's a point of the opposite of rest. It's a point of like high potential energy when a lot's going on.

[00:16:03] The parasites are actually more active during the full moon. And part of that is because the human body produces more serotonin when the moon is full. And the parasites like that. That's actually one of the things they consume. So if you look into parasite cleanses, it's often recommended to do a parasite cleanse in the week of the full moon.

[00:16:26] Luke: I've heard that. I wonder if parasites really love it if you take a bunch of magic mushrooms or tryptamines that flood your system with serotonin.

[00:16:39] Brian: That's an interesting conversation. Yeah, the parasites. But yeah, all of us, all the biology is related to this greater ecosystem around us. Just like we have cells, we're little cells for the earth, and the earth is a little cell for the galaxy. Some people that actually think it keeps going up and the cosmic consciousness, the creator is actually the cell of something else that's even greater and so on and so forth.

[00:17:09] But we're all connected. That's why, as funny as it is, sometimes you can read your horoscope based on your astrological sign, and you're like, "Wow, that's really oddly accurate." Especially if you look at someone's full chart. That's because there's a relationship between us and the cosmos. And when we're born, the particular arrangement of the cosmos has this energetic imprint that it puts on who we are in this lifecycle.

[00:17:41] Luke: What sign are you?

[00:17:44] Brian: In Greek astrology, my sun sign is Aries, but my moon sign is Pisces. So where was the moon when I was born? It's in the Pisces constellation. And then my ascendant sign, my rising sign is Virgo, which is an earth sign. So yeah, you can know a lot about a person just with their sun sign, but if you look at the full chart, it's bizarre and almost disturbing how accurate it is.

[00:18:17] And it's not definitive. It's just the tendencies that we have. And each one of those has a light side and a dark side. Mercury is the sign of communication. Mercury is Miracle Ace. It's Wednesday. And the element associated with that is Mercury, literally. So where Mercury is when you're born defines to some degree how you communicate, what's your communication style?

[00:18:51] And so for me it's Aries, and Aries is the warrior. So my communication style is typically really blunt, straightforward. It's great for a working environment. You just get to the point immediately. Whereas someone like a Gemini or an Aquarius will just get really abstract and in the clouds.

[00:19:11] So all that to say that it's not definitive, but it helps you understand what your baseline is. And so it's great to be very direct, but sometimes if you're not careful, that can be brutal. Brutal honesty that's not given with compassion is maybe not the best way to communicate all the time, but it's all very accurate, actually if you look into it. So you can know your full chart if you know, not just your birth date, but your time and your place of birth.

[00:19:45] Luke: Yeah, yeah. I had a show recently, the first one, strangely ever, on this topic with this woman, Deborah Silverman recently. I sent her that information, and she did my chart, and we discussed it in the episode, which I'll link to today's show at lukestorey.com/saunaspace2, the number two.

[00:20:08] And it was wild. She just read me like a book. It wasn't one of those things where, I don't know-- sometimes when, I don't know, imagine seeing a fortune teller, a "psychic", they'll be like, "Do you like water?" You know what I mean? And you're like, "Yeah."

[00:20:28] "You had a dad, right?" "Yeah." Every question is so broad and ambiguous that it's difficult to really buy into it. But her information was very specific and very accurate, and I was like, "Okay, I'm pretty convinced there's something to this." She's been doing it forever, so that probably has something to do with the accuracy too.

[00:20:52] But yeah, if you just look at crime rates on full moons, suicide rates-- I've had so many times where-- generally, I've worked on my sleep so much over the years. It's really important to me because I'm old as shit and when I don't sleep well, I really feel it. So sleep is a very high priority to me.

[00:21:16] And every once in a while, I'll get just a crazy ass night of insomnia. What? I didn't have coffee late. What is happening? I don't get it. I'll mention it to Alyson the next day. She's like, "Oh, it was a full moon last night." I'm like, "No, that can't be real." I forget about it for another month and then it happens again. She's like, "Full moon."

[00:21:34] Brian: Full moon. Yeah.

[00:21:35] Luke: After enough of those, I'm like, "Okay, it can't be placebo." Because don't track-- I don't even know what month it is most of the time, let alone what day of the month. I'm completely oblivious to all things calendars and clocks. So there's something to it. So it seems that it would serve us to have at least some awareness of how these things impact our lives and relationships.

[00:21:59] Let's go back into history a little bit. What was the first light technology that you discovered from days of old that was used for healing? Something that I remember stumbling on years ago when I started researching sun exposure and they had these heliotherapy treatment centers where people with polio or whatever would go into these clinics or hospital, and they basically just sunbathe all day.

[00:22:34] They'd have them outside and the sun would heal them. And we've been brainwashed to think the sun is our enemy when it's just so counterintuitive that it's necessary for any and all life to exist. So I know earlier in your journey, you were having some health problems and you started discovering some of these older technologies, the ways that people were using sun and light and things like that. And I'd love to learn more about that.

[00:23:02] Brian: Yeah. It wasn't the first thing I discovered, but if we go chronologically in history, what humans were doing-- I actually wrote a blog article about this just recently about, I call it the truth about red light. And really the first is the sun, which you mentioned heliotherapy.

[00:23:20] The Greeks and other cultures had solariums. So it was a sacred temple or a sacred place that you would go and you would sit in, and you would enjoy the healing rays of the sun. And the sun heals. And it's something that has become weirdly controversial nowadays, where the conventional advice is to hide from the sun or protect yourself from it.

[00:23:49] Don't get too much sun and all that. But the ancients understood how powerful and healing the sun was. And even before we get into any manmade light technology, there was a Spanish flu in 1917, and the Surgeon General of Massachusetts did this research study that he published in 1919.

[00:24:14] Because they were dealing with this worldwide epidemic, I guess, that was going on then. And he said, "You know what's the best thing to prevent yourself from dying of this flu stuff or this cold stuff? It's fresh air and sunlight. And that was based on his research and his clinical use of those two things to treat people who were dealing with the flu at that time.

[00:24:42] And also going back into like the civil war, the patients, the wounded soldiers, they would keep him in the tents and then other ones, they would have them just outside in the sun. And they both are like, have horrible wounds from war. The survival rate is 40 to 50% higher for the soldiers who were just put out in the sun. Those guys were surviving a lot more.

[00:25:07] So the sun is the original thing. But for me, what I stumbled upon in my healing journey was the incandescent electric light bath. I was basically dealing with adrenal fatigue and insomnia. It was a big sleep thing for me. I also had this acne that was making me a little self-conscious, I would say.

[00:25:36] I'm like, "I had this when I was 14, but why do I have it now again? I'm in my early 20s." And my mom's a general practitioner, so she's always been very natural-minded functional medical doctor, and I was like, "Mom, what do you think?" She's like, Brian, you're probably just toxic. You probably just need a sauna. You've been burning the candle at both ends."

[00:25:58] I was like, "Whoa. Okay." And by the way, I grew up with two sides. My dad is a retired radiologist. My mom was prescribing vitamins in Montana in the '80s when I grew up.

[00:26:12] Luke: Is your dad still alive?

[00:26:14] Brian: Yeah, thanks to my mom though.

[00:26:16] Luke: Has he ever had any problems from being around radiation so often?

[00:26:22] Brian: Yeah, he had amazing eyesight for a long time. But looking at the screens and the x-rays and the MRIs for a long time, it really damaged his eyesight long term, being in his dark rooms. But the truth is he didn't really take care of his body very well, and it got to a critical point where he finally started listening to my mom. At least he was like, "Okay, fine. I'll try some of this stuff, Bonnie." And my mom's--

[00:26:51] Luke: Your dad's name is not Clyde, is it? That would be epic.

[00:26:54] Brian: Yeah. Yeah, Michael. So my dad, Michael, he finally started using my sauna and has gone on a long health journey. He used to drink a lot of alcohol as well. He was dealing with a lot of things.

[00:27:10] Luke: My kind of guy.

[00:27:11] Brian: He's now 74, and he looks better than he looks when he was 60. And he's done a ton of different things, peptides, sauna.

[00:27:20] Luke: Oh wow.

[00:27:21] Brian: He's also done a long parasite cleanse like I did. But yeah, he's got hair growth that returned and all sorts of stuff. But growing up, I didn't realize when I was growing up, I didn't appreciate it until I became an adult, how amazing my mom was. I always looked at my parents and I was like, "Oh, my daddy's making a lot of money. And my mom is sitting here struggling, barely paying the bills, doing all this natural medicine." But doing what her heart was aligned with.

[00:27:54] And I realized after I grew up, oh, what my dad was doing was a part of sick care. This is the revolving door, the diagnose and treat. And radiologists are the first diagnostic point when you get into allopathic care. You go and you get a scan of some kind, and they're like, "Oh, you've got this in your scan."

[00:28:19] And then you get down and into the rabbit hole of things. So anyway, when my mom was like, "Get a sauna," I was like, "Okay." I was intrigued. I do the research. I was like, "Whoa, it's a real deal." And we'll talk about that. But at the end of it, I found Dr. Kellogg's work, this book called Light Therapeutics that was written in 1910. This is 100 years right before the modern biohacking culture that we have now, where you see red light therapy everywhere.

[00:28:47] Luke: Is this the same Kellogg that put funny stuff in cereal to sterilize boys and stuff?

[00:28:53] Brian: This is his brother.

[00:28:54] Luke: Okay.

[00:28:55] Brian: Yeah, same family. So you got the light in the dark in that family. So yeah, the brother, they thought that male masturbation and male libido was a problem back then. So they're like, "Let's feed him bran cereal and calm them down." And we know how that story has gone.

[00:29:16] Now we have problems on the other side of things, not enough testosterone. All the men now have the testosterone levels of what a 70-year-old man had 50 years ago. It's a real problem.

[00:29:28] Well, his brother was a lot cooler. Dr. John Harvey Kellogg had a sanitarium in Battle Creek, Michigan. And right after incandescent light bulbs were invented, he picked them up and he said, "Let's make a sauna with this. There's something special with this light." And he wrote this book. He tested it on 50,000 patients over hundreds of thousands of sauna sessions he logged.

[00:29:52] Luke: Damn.

[00:29:53] Brian: It's a really fascinating read.

[00:29:55] Luke: Did he take inspiration from the Finnish sauna and the Russian banyas and things like that?

[00:29:59] Brian: Yeah. He had a sanitarium, so he actually was doing cold therapy, vibration therapy. He was doing liver cleanses and colonics.

[00:30:08] Luke: Really?

[00:30:08] Brian: Yeah, yeah. A long time ago. It is his spa, basically. This is pre-FDA. This is when there were cancer spas all across the US that you could go to and you go into healing high frequency spring water and you would go do a cleanse.

[00:30:27] So he had this really successful operation. He was trying a lot of things. He wasn't right on everything, but he was very natural minded. And he really nailed the nail in the head with the electric light bath. And he wrote this book. So you can read this book. And he basically healed every chronic disease that he came up against.

[00:30:48] And it wasn't just chronic disease, whether it was neuropathies and eczema or depression and neuropsychiatric problems that people had, or gut problems that people had. He was also healing trauma wounds like snake bites. Which is interesting because there's a lot of use of synthetic venom peptides now in pharmaceutical medicine.

[00:31:15] And one of the successes he had with his electric light bath using basically what we're doing for sauna was in the treatment of snake bite victims. So anyway, I read this book. I was like, "Whoa, this is so cool." And I found a modern doctor's rendition of this and I built my own, and I used it right before bed because I was like, "Insomnia, right?"

[00:31:38] And I just slept amazing. This is way before Oura Rings, so I don't know what my sleep score was, but I woke up, and I was like, "Whoa, I don't have insomnia anymore. I feel amazing." And so it was really one session that it was so changing for me. And that led me to just-- I was like, "Wow."

[00:31:56] And so I used it pretty much five days a week for six months and healed all of these things that I had that I was dealing with and other things that I didn't even realize. I definitely had some brain fog going on, and it takes a while and like when you're in it and you're not-- unless you're like journaling or something, it takes you a while for you to realize.

[00:32:20] But all of a sudden, I notice how much more clear my mind was and how much more energy I had and focus and those qualitative cognitive benefits, beyond just, yeah, my skin looked a lot better. My sleep was completely restored. So that was the beginning. And I looked into it more.

[00:32:43] There was this whole cohort of doctors who were using electric light bulbs for healing in the early 20th century. And it's a fascinating story that gets completely suppressed with the rise of the AMA and the FDA. There was like, Dr. Dania Ali had his spectro-chrome therapy where you'd have a light bulb and you'd put a colored glass filter in front of it and you'd shine that on an organ. Different colors, different organs.

[00:33:11] Luke: I think Dr. Alexander Wunsch talked about that couple of years ago when he was on the show. Yeah, it was really interesting. He was talking about, for different ailments, whether it's arthritis or fatty liver, whatever, that different colors, when you amplify them as you're describing, have different healing effects based on the color. It's really interesting.

[00:33:32] Brian: Yeah. And you can read about spectro-chrome therapy. I think his son picked it up afterward and he's still alive. And there were others too. And even before that, it was like, there's issues with sunlight with regards to ultraviolet and blue light where they're important to have, but it's very dose dependent. And you can really quickly get too much.

[00:33:57] And so another form of manmade light therapy, even before electricity, was to have a patient sit in front of red-stained glass window. And the red stained glass filters out the blue and the ultraviolet predominantly.

[00:34:11] Luke: Oh.

[00:34:11] Brian: And so you get all the rest of the healing spectrum of the sun, but without the super high energy part. And they were healing lupus, which is-- lupus vulgaris was a disease you could die from a long time ago.

[00:34:27] Luke: Yeah.

[00:34:29] Brian: If you look at pictures online, it's very unsightly. And they were completely healing that just by having the patient sit in front of the glass window and just get the best part of the sun.

[00:34:38] Luke: That's so interesting. I've always wondered about old cathedrals, and they have those big pipe organs, giant bell on top, and stained glass everywhere.

[00:34:51] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:53] Luke: I've never been religious, but I've always loved into those old cathedrals and just sitting down and hanging out, meditating. When I used to travel to New York, I'd be walking down the street and I go-- doors are just open to a lot of these old churches. Can I go in there? I literally don't know how work. And I'd ask the guard, "Can I walk in?" He is like, "Yeah, dude. It's a church. That's why the door's open."

[00:35:16] I just go in there and go, "Hmm, there's something going on here than just people coming together to worship. There's something in the structure and the energy of the buildings.

[00:35:27] Brian: Well, we're energy being, Luke, and things resonate with us.

[00:35:33] Luke: You only see stained glass now in old abandoned pizza huts and really shitty dive bars sometimes.

[00:35:40] Brian: Yeah.

[00:35:41] Luke: It's weird those old timey weird windows. Imagine like this house if a number of these windows were beautiful stained glass. What a vibe that is.

[00:35:53] Brian: Yeah. And the ancients also use principles of astrogeomancy. So they would build the home like the ancients build the pyramids, where there'd be certain areas where there'd be a window aligned with where the sun's going to come in at a certain time of the day, a certain time of the year.

[00:36:13] And that's where, yeah, you might choose to put a stained glass element to bring in a certain type of energy, a certain frequency, or even use a certain metal like copper is associated with Venus. That's a Venusian energy of love. You wanted to bring that energy more into a certain space.

[00:36:33] And nowadays, forget about all that and forget about the stained-glass windows. It's all about energy efficiency in terms of lighting, and yet all these things matter to us. They really resonate. So when you walk into those old, these ancient structures, it's like, whoa, I don't know what's going on, but there's something here that's so beautiful. It's speaking to my cells.

[00:36:55] Luke: There's also a really interesting effect of temperature control. Ever notice that? It can be a hundred degrees out and you walk into one of those old churches and it's like perfect 68. I don't know if I've been in one in the dead of winter and if they're warm, but the actual air really good.

[00:37:17] Brian: Yeah.

[00:37:17] Luke: There's a certain stillness and just comfortability. I don't know. I guess it's an energy flow, but there's a temperature regulation thing that's really interesting too.

[00:37:31] Brian: Yeah. There's definitely a lot more that we could unpack for a long time. They're using sacred geometry too to--

[00:37:39] Luke: Right. Because a lot of these stained-glass windows also look like cymatics.

[00:37:45] Brian: Mm-hmm. There's a lot of the use of like flower of life--

[00:37:48] Luke: Yeah.

[00:37:49] Brian: In lot of the cathedrals in Europe and also in the Middle East. Yeah. And it all has this harmonizing effect, where you go into it and the energy, the frequency of the space is more aligned with our biology. And if nothing else, it's something that just is relaxing.

[00:38:16] But yeah, the more you pay attention to it, the more you realize, wow, we're complex electromagnetic beings, and there's all these things that influence us and affect us for better or worse, that are either raising our frequency or lowering it.

[00:38:33] Luke: Just walk into a hospital or a Walmart and compare how you feel. Even if someone's not really tapped into their sensitivity in that way, you could take your average person and drive them to the hospital, walk around here for 30 minutes, come out, tell me how you feel.

[00:38:52] Let's go over to this cathedral from 1850 or whatever, and hang out in there for a little bit. Tell me how you feel. There's definitely something tangible to that. It's just interesting to me that so much of the intentionality around spaces in which we dwell seems to have been lost and forgotten.

[00:39:14] And even now when people have the resources to build-- depends where you are in the world. There's some beautiful places that you mentioned, Greece and the Mediterranean. There's some beautiful more biocompatible structures, but generally speaking, if someone has a bunch of money, they're going to build a really cold McMansion that might have cost $10 million to build.

[00:39:39] And so I go, "Dude, with that budget, you know the cool shit you could have done?" That's the way I think. Or even just buy an old dilapidated church and turn that into your house. I wouldn't want to live in a city. I guess that's where they are. But there's also things that can be, I think, reinvigorated and repurposed where you don't have to start from scratch. But anyway, I digress. I'm getting way off topic, but these are the things that I--

[00:40:09] Brian: Well, the light, just looking at your home and if not thinking about other aspects of structure materials, just thinking about light--

[00:40:20] Luke: It's huge.

[00:40:20] Brian: It's so huge.

[00:40:21] Luke: I did a cool thing. So when we renovated this house, we replaced all the and sliding glass doors in the lower level, but I ran out of money and I never got to the upper level because it's freaking expensive, as any homeowner will know. It was shocking to me to learn that.

[00:40:37] We walked in. I was like, "Oh yeah, we'll just replace the windows. "It'll be great." And then you get a couple of bids and it's like, okay, I'll be saving up for a few years for that one. But anyway, we finally did these, and in Texas you have such brutal weather that they put this Low-E film on them to block out the infrared light. Right?

[00:40:56] Brian: Infrared. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:58] Luke: And I was thinking to myself when I was ordering the windows. I don't want certain windows to get that infrared because the house would never cool down. It would be torture. But I realize there's a number of windows in here that never get direct sunlight. So those six windows right there, for example, are just totally clear glass. So I'm at least getting a little more of a broad spectrum of light from outside

[00:41:21] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:22] Luke: When you go in a house that's all Low-E, it's feels very blue-green. You know what I mean? When you get attuned to this stuff.

[00:41:29] Brian: Yeah, it is. It is.

[00:41:31] Luke: It's funky. I don't know. It doesn't feel right.

[00:41:35] Brian: Yeah, it's just like what you mentioned before when you walk into a hospital or something like that. When you go into an environment where you have fragmented light that's mostly blue light, it feels off. It feels clinical. And that's because our biology is not designed to get a little piece of the spectrum.

[00:42:02] Our biology is designed to get all of it, to get the symphony. In a way, that's what you have going on with LED, red light therapy, for example as compared to what we're doing. You've got one note. So it's like going to your friend's house and he is going to play you the guitar or play you the piano.

[00:42:30] He's like, "Hey, man. Come over. Check out. I got this new thing I wrote." And then he starts playing one note, and you're like, "Wow, that's beautiful. It sounds nice. But there's more. Right? There's something else. There's more." Yeah, there's absolutely more. And when you're looking at that type of LED light, including red light therapy panels, you're only hearing one note, and your body's like, "Where is the rest of the song?"

[00:43:00] Luke: And harmonics.

[00:43:00] Brian: Where are all the harmonics? Or where are all the notes in the chord and the various octaves? Show me what's possible, what's out there. And so what we do, in contrast, it's the whole song. It's all of the notes. It's all of the wavelengths that you get from nature's light, which is the sun, but without those violent blue.

[00:43:29] So it's like the original light. And that's why when you feel-- red light therapy's everywhere and everybody's checking it out now. That's super cool. And these products are great. These LED light therapy products are good, and people are getting benefits from them. But it really is like a vitamin pill versus eating something that is actually real food.

[00:43:55] Luke: It's like taking a B vitamin versus eating an ounce of raw liver.

[00:44:01] Brian: Yeah, yeah. And so your body can take that vitamin E and use it, but what your body is designed to get is the real food. And it's the same thing with light. Your body is designed to get all of the wavelengths of infrared in a particular distribution where actually most of it is near infrared.

[00:44:26] And actually if we look at the sun, people are like, "Oh, I get tanned. I'm getting that vitamin D." When the truth is, yes, it's a part of the sun, but over 70% of the sun's wattage is near infrared. So the vast majority of what we're absorbing is in this spectrum that we don't see that's beyond red.

[00:44:48] It's called infrared. And within that, it's called near infrared, so it's the high energy, invisible infrared that's the vast majority of the power of the sun that we get. And so that's what our body is craving more than anything. It's like whenever we're experiencing light, there should be a lot of that high energy infrared in it.

[00:45:10] And that's when our biology says, "Wow, this is coherent. This is beautiful. This is what I want." And so when you experience like what we do, it's full spectrum near infrared. So it is red light. You can see there's red coming off, but most of it is in that invisible band that you don't see, but the rest of your body sees, all of your cells see.

[00:45:32] And that's what's the most nourishing to your body, is that portion of the sun. And that's the difference in the experience. So many people use red light, a LED red light panel, and then they'll try out what we do, what we call the FireLight, which is full spectrum near infrared, and they're really blown away by how different it feels.

[00:45:57] And that's because we are beings of light, and we really don't want the vitamin E pill so much as we want the satisfying meal that has all the flavor notes and the full symphony of what's possible in terms of light.

[00:46:12] Our bodies really crave that. And nowadays with modern lighting, that's predominantly LED, we're just not getting any of that. So you feel it. It's often here, whether it's Low-E glass or it's fluorescent bulbs that flicker or LEDs. It's not what we're designed to get and it's the most important fuel that we actually have.

[00:46:34] So think about the sun, the sun nourishing all life on earth, the sun does so many things. It also gives us energy. I actually just saw a really nice Andrew Huberman reel talking about how as we age, we have less energy. And there's an interesting new study indicating that one of the predominant reasons for that is a loss in electrical potential of the cell membranes and the mitochondrial membranes.

[00:47:05] And guess what is the most powerful way to recharge them? To basically recharge the battery's systems in all of your cells. It's near infrared light. It's not red light because red light doesn't go in deep.

The reason that most of the energy we absorb from the sun is near infrared, even though it's not spectrally the greatest portion is because near infrared light is the only light that goes into-- it can go all the way through our body actually. So it's the only light from the sun.

[00:47:34] Luke: Really?

[00:47:34] Brian: Yeah, it can go all the way through. So it's the only light from the sun that goes through the skull into the brain. And it's the only light that goes to the deep organs and recharges and activates the mitochondria deep, deep, deep inside. So it's another aspect of the sun. The sun gives us energy and keeps us good even as we get older and older and we're old as fuck, like you may be.

[00:48:02] Luke: Someone's going to give me shit for being self-deprecating. But no, I'm going to be 55 this year. And I think, man, when I was 30, a 55-year-old was like, that's old. But to the energy point, this is so funny, dude. As you were saying this, we get older, we have less energy. I swear to God on a Bible, if I had one here-- I do have one downstairs-- I have more energy now than-- I'm sure when I was a kid I maybe had as much, if not more energy.

[00:48:35] But in my recent memory of the past 20 years or something, I have more and more energy all the time. I'm just never tired. You were mentioning brain fog. Once you start really focusing on brain health, what I found is if I have an off day, if I ate something funky or slept poorly, a lost word, or what was I going to say? That kind of thing where you drop the ball.

[00:49:03] Brian: Yeah.

[00:49:04] Luke: It becomes so noticeable because you rarely do it. And it's the same way now with me with just, I don't know, physical, mental energy, just up and go, kind of raw energy. If I ever have a day where I'm just sleepy and lethargic, it's super weird. I really notice it and I go, "Okay, wow." And I do.

[00:49:20] I listen to my body because it's so pronounced if I'm ever just smoked and lacking energy that I take a pause and I go, "Okay, man. My body's telling me I need to rest because I never feel that way." I have a hard time going to bed at night.

[00:49:40] I'm still completely charged at 10, 11, 12, and it's like I have to force myself to go to bed. Thankfully, usually I fall asleep. But it's got to have something to do with the relationship that I've built with the sun and technologies like yours where I'm really, really putting a lot of effort into the nourishment of light.

[00:50:04] And I would go so far to say that I think light, sun, and manufactured lights like we've got here, I think it's more important than food, to be honest. Unless you're drinking four aspartame Diet Cokes a day and eating a bunch of glyphosate. If you're eating straight up poison 24/7, then you might have an argument.

[00:50:27] But I think if you're eating a relatively clean diet, you could probably forego almost all, if not most of the supplements that we're taking to try to have more energy and be healthier. I think if one was to really, really emphasis on their relationship to sun and light, that solves most problems.

[00:50:49] And also I think it's what makes us sick, is this lifestyle indoor lifestyle. People talk about like the sedentary lifestyle. It's like, I don't think it really matters that you're sitting. It's like, where are you sitting? Because I feel it, dude. When I'm working in my office, I'll usually keep one of your lamps on.

[00:51:07] I actually have two of them in there. One on my desk and one up here because I'm psycho and I like to have light coming from different places. But if I have those on, I feel less of a need to go outside and take sun breaks because, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like balancing the blue light coming through the windows, that artificial, weird one-note light that's getting filtered by the glass.

[00:51:32] I feel like if I introduce this broad spectrum of red light, it feels more being outside. If I'm in a room for a long period of time working on a computer, if I travel or something, I got to go outside at least every hour and just get sun in my eyes, take my shirt off. I feel light deficient quickly.

[00:51:57] Brian: Yeah. And we're all dealing with that nowadays where a lot of us have to use the computer a lot. And it is. It's a matter of light more than anything else. You can drink an energy drink or take some nootropics to, to stay calm or whatever, but you said it. Light is more important than anything. So when you have this FireLight next to you, it actually cancels out the blue light that comes out the screen. And also the flickering. Most screens, LEDs, they turn on and off.

[00:52:27] Luke: Yeah.

[00:52:27] Brian: It's called flickering.

[00:52:28] Luke: It's brutal, dude.

[00:52:29] Brian: It's like this strobe light to our bodies. It's like, ah.

[00:52:34] Luke: Dude, the flicker thing.

[00:52:35] Brian: So basically, you can use this for screen fatigue. So that's what that is. It's technology fatigue.

[00:52:42] Luke: So I'm not imagining that.

[00:52:43] Brian: No, you're not imagining that. It's taking the light environment in front of you next to the screen and it's making it feel like you're next to the campfire.

[00:52:55] Luke: Yeah.

[00:52:55] Brian: Like you're outside. So it's bringing that outdoor spectrum indoor, canceling out the blue light, and just making the environment much more biologically coherent to where you can actually sit there and do some work, and you don't go psycho immediately. It's definitely not forever. You need to go outside. But it's the light. The light's more important than anything.

[00:53:16] So like, yeah, what I was mentioning before as I refer to that reel is that we're light beings literally. And energy and light are more important-- just as important, I would agree with you. More important than food. And this was actually understood a long time ago. Do you know what they used to call vegetarians a long, long time ago?

[00:53:41] Luke: No.

[00:53:41] Brian: They used to call them pythagoreans. And so the inner circles of the mystery schools-- on the outer circles, yeah, were eating meat, eating whatever, everything. In the inner circles, they were pythagoreans. They were vegetarians, because they understood that for certain applications, keeping the body really clear and coherent and high frequency meant not consuming animal flesh, if not-- maybe not permanently, but for periods of time, just to keep the body super clear.

[00:54:15] And within those inner circles, the most inner circles of the mystery schools, they were fruitarians. They wouldn't even eat any plants. They only ate fruit. And you can kind of do this. If you've ever gone to a tropical environment and it's summer and it's beautiful, you're getting tons of sun every day, you're never indoors on the computer, you don't need to eat as much.

[00:54:37] Hardly at all. Even I think of eating a big steak or something. I'm like, "Ah, no, I'll pass. But if it's winter and I'm indoors and it's Missouri, or it's Montana, and it's cold like that, that steak, that liver, it sounds really appetizing to me.

[00:54:54] It's because we're not getting our primary fuel source. So those are all backup fuel sources, which are good tools and they serve their purpose. But the number one fuel source is light. Particularly it's full spectrum incandescent light, which the sun is an incandescent light source too.

[00:55:14] And within that, it's mostly near infrared. It's coming in. It's charging the mitochondria. It's promoting all the red light therapy benefits but much deeper into the body. Only near infrared does that. It gives you energy. It promotes most of the body's melatonin, which is the body's number one antioxidant.

[00:55:30] So it's filling up your antioxidant reserves, and it makes you feel good. When you think of yourself sunbathing, it's like a positive. You like, "Oh yeah, that sounds great. That feels good." It's something that we're drawn to. And so when we don't get that, yeah, we get psycho. We get sick.

[00:55:54] And in the winter, it's definitely a combination of being indoors more where the indoor air environments more polluted and all that. But a huge component is also deficiency of near infrared light.

[00:56:07] Luke: Think about where most humans spend their vacations that they work so hard to pay for. Unless you're into snow sports, skiing and things like that, no one goes to where it's cold and dark to rejuvenate. We go spend our money to fly somewhere where it's sunny and there's bodies of water.

[00:56:27] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:28] Luke: That's always tripped me out too. The most expensive real estate on the planet is always where there's water, and usually where there's water, there's sun. Right?

[00:56:36] Brian: Yeah.

[00:56:37] Luke: So it's like there's less coverage from trees and things like that if you're on a coast or on the edge of a lake or river and things like that. I am just forever getting this idea reinforced and also seeing the results of it.

[00:56:54] Take me back to building your own sauna. Because we are simultaneously talking about sauna therapy, because that's the intervention that you discovered. And I've been into saunas for freaking decades. Love. But the relationship between getting this near infrared light and also heating up the body is something I want to go into. But take me back in time a little bit. How janky was your first sauna? Because the SaunaSpace saunas that you make now, I have one, as you know, downstairs.

[00:57:28] Brian: Yeah.

[00:57:28] Luke: It's like my best friend. Fricking obsessed with that thing.

[00:57:33] Brian: I wouldn't say it's sophisticated, but it's elegant.

[00:57:38] Luke: It's a little tent for those that haven't seen it. We'll link to it in the show notes. It's cool-looking. It's basic, but it's elegant. Was your first one close to that, or was it made out of plywood from Home Depot? Nails poking out and shit.

[00:57:53] Brian: Yeah. I still have some of the components of the original one. It was plastic plumbing pipe, and it was painter's cloths, synthetic whatever that you protect the floor with.

[00:58:07] Luke: Like drop cloth.

[00:58:07] Brian: Like drop cloth. Yeah. And I made my own light panel with-- and I didn't have my own bulb that I had developed, a FireLight bulb. It was just heat lamps from the store, and it was very fugly. It was a very little brick lodge structure. It had the same dimensions.

[00:58:30] I actually have a picture of it in a blog article I just wrote, where I'm like, I got my first SBA loan with the bank and I'm standing in front of it. There's no stool and there's no EMF anything, shielding or anything. Yeah, it was very ugly, but it was very functional and effective.

[00:58:50] Luke: So you could break a sweat in there well?

[00:58:51] Brian: Oh, yeah, yeah. The new stuff definitely works better, but the concept here is the same. That's what Dr. Kellogg called the incandescent electric light bath, what we call the firelight. It's really the best of both worlds.

[00:59:09] So it's optimal light therapy, full spectrum infrared. It's focused on near infrared, like what the sun does, but without ultraviolet blue, and has optimal heat therapy. So what is optimal heat therapy? Optimal heat therapy is radiant heat therapy. And this is what Dr. Kellogg discovered. He wrote it in his book.

[00:59:27] He said, "There's something special about this light. It heats the body much more efficiently than the Turkish sauna and the Finnish sauna. There's something special about the light." And they didn't understand physics like we do now, but it goes back to that deep penetration.

[00:59:44] The near infrared light is going all the way into the deepest part of your body, and some of it passes through, some of it hits your mitochondria and activates light therapy systems, and some of it is absorbed by water. So it's called radiant heat.

[01:00:00] That's why it's a better heat therapy. So with the SaunaSpace, even the pre collage, my first version that I made, you don't preheat it. You just get inside. You can preheat it if you want, if you want a really intense session, but you don't need to. You get inside, and from the very first second, your deep organs are being heated.

[01:00:16] And the goal of all sauna is to sweat out a pound of water, raise your core temperature about three degrees. You're doing that, you're getting the clinically-observed benefits that are like longevity and everything else that are in all those amazing longevity studies that they've done in Finland or for decades and decades.

[01:00:34] And also reduction in risk of Alzheimer's and dementia. Basically reduction in risk of all-cause mortality. So you do that, and any sauna you can get that done. But with SaunaSpace, with radiant near infrared light, you're doing it way more efficiently. So in the super sauna, like what you have, there's seven bulbs in it.

[01:00:57] Luke: Mine has eight.

[01:00:57] Brian: Yours has eight. Right. You got a special one. You have the eight bulbs. Most people don't get that. But we finally started offering it all together.

[01:01:05] Luke: I want to tell you something funny. With the preheating, you're right. With your sauna, you don't need to preheat it. You could sit down on your stool, turn it on, and you'll start sweating in five minutes. But because I'm just hardcore, I usually do preheat it, but I've realized sometimes I forget.

[01:01:28] I'll be like, "Oh, I'm going to just turn it on and I'll be in here in 10 minutes." And then I get on my computer. I meditate. Next thing you know, it's been 90 minutes, and I'm like, "I get in there and that thing is cooking." Which is fine, but I've noticed my electric bill, when I get in the habit of doing that, it's off the charts. These things are, what, 250 watts--

[01:01:48] Brian: Yeah, they're 250. They're not so bad.

[01:01:51] Luke: I'm talking, I'm leaving it off for a couple of hours, dude.

[01:01:54] Brian: Yeah. If you leave it on all day, every day.

[01:01:56] Luke: And I have the eight bulbs, so I realize like, hmm, it's probably not very energy efficient to do that. And it's not necessary.

[01:02:05] Brian: Yeah, you don't need to preheat it. With our classic sauna, that's four bulbs, it's only about 15, 20 cents an hour to run. And so as long as you're not turning it on, forgetting it for eight hours, it's actually really affordable to run. But the idea is, yeah, you're using radiant light to heat the body, so you don't really need to preheat it.

[01:02:24] You can if you're a super biohacker and you just want more, more intensity. But with the super sauna, like you have, seven or eight bulbs, your sauna session is 15, 20 minutes long. It's really all you need.

[01:02:36] Luke: That's what's up.

[01:02:37] Brian: A regular sauna, you're going to preheat it a good half hour or more, and you're going to be in there an hour. For a three sessions a week, which is what we're trying to get people to do, that's where you get really a big shift in your health. It's a six-hour investment with a regular sauna, an infrared sauna, traditional sauna.

[01:02:59] And with the SaunaSpace, with the FireLight and the radiant heat, it's 15 times three. It's 30, 45 minutes, and you really don't have to preheat. And so it's a big game changer, just that. That, hey, I can get the benefits of sauna, and it's 15 or 20 minutes. And then I can go ahead and do everything else I want in the day. That really is a game changer for so many people.

[01:03:23] Luke: Good luck staying longer than 20 minutes. You won't want to. I get questions from people a lot about, which is the best sauna, and this and that? And I think that you're raising an important point in that it depends on use case and what your goals are. So what I always tell people is if you're looking for maximum benefits in the shortest period of time, SaunaSpace is a no-brainer. And it's the one that I use the most often.

[01:04:00] We also have a really beautiful Sunlighten sauna down the hall there. That sauna's awesome. If I want to chill with my wife, hang out and talk and spend time, have a comfortable seat to sit on-- I can even lay down in there and kick my feet up on the wall, listen to some tunes, listen to a podcast, hang out, put on the lights. I don't know. It's more like a spa vibe.

[01:04:29] But I'm going to have to preheat it, and I'm going to be in there for a longer period of time, which I enjoy sometimes. It doesn't have to be a solitary thing. To me, the SaunaSpace, it's a speed healing capsule. It's like I'm getting in there, I'm by myself. I guess you could fit two people if you had two stools. It might be a little crammed, but I always do mine by myself.

[01:04:55] And it's like that's my quiet time, my meditation time. And I'm in there doing all other routines. I'm doing skin brushing. I got the DMSO and magnesium oil. I'm huffing CO2. I'm doing all kinds of weird shit in there. Because I want to take that 15 or 20 minutes and just stack everything I can. I've got the-- what do they call that? Gua sha or whatever.

[01:05:19] Brian: Gua sha, yeah.

[01:05:20] Luke: Yeah, I got that thing. I was doing it this morning. I'm in there cranking on my neck. And it's like, dude, that 15 or 20 minutes has so much impact on my day. In fact, and I say this to a lot of guests, "I'm not just saying this because you're here." But I'm not. I take a sauna before every podcast because I feel like my brain doesn't work as well if I don't.

[01:05:43] You can ask Jarrod because I always text him, "What's your ETA?" I'm in the sauna." Right, Jarrod? Every time dude. Someone showed up the other day and I come out sweaty with my shirt off, and I didn't even know them like I know you. So to me, that's the characteristic because there are other-- barrel saunas are awesome to have in your yard. I really would like to have one of those too.

[01:06:05] You can have a bunch of homies over and ice bath. You do the contrast. It's like a social thing. The SaunaSpace to me is not a social thing. It's like that's my super concentrated me time where I do deep healing and deep detox. And so for anyone listening that's like wondering, oh, not everyone can afford two saunas or have space for them, so I think it's really like goal and lifestyle dependent. And if your goal is what I described, like speed healing, super hardcore, get it done, you've nailed that.

[01:06:41] Brian: Thank you. Yeah. The design approach that I've taken and that we're doing, is a holistic approach. It's a holistic healing approach. When you talk about conventional medicine, they're giving you one ingredient, one thing for one symptom. And with SaunaSpace, with the optimal light and the optimal heat therapy, there's also these other design components in there. All these panels are electromagnetically shielded, so there's no EMF coming out of the product, which is can be an issue in some other saunas. We're all tech, right?

[01:07:17] Luke: Dude, I used to have this, what's that website? Temu or whatever?

[01:07:22] Brian: Where you get like the Chinese stuff.

[01:07:24] Luke: Yeah, yeah. That site didn't exist yet, but I had a Korean infrared sauna, a box sauna, and I used to sit in there forever, for years, and then tested it for EMF, and I was like, "Oh shit." It was off the charts, dude. It had electric field and magnetic field just zapping you. Sometimes it's a cost-benefit ratio. I'm sure all the detoxing I did was good.

[01:07:50] Brian: Yeah, there's still the benefits.

[01:07:54] Luke: But if you can not have it, that's better.

[01:07:55] Brian: Yeah. So you're in there, and yeah, it's a supercharge healing experience. It's EMF-shielded. You're protected from the environmental EMFs completely if you get our silver lining upgrade. But even without that, there's a grounding mat, so you're grounding and earthing, which is correcting your electrical potential in your body.

[01:08:16] Luke: So if you're touching the little bamboo floor, you're grounded?

[01:08:20] Brian: You don't even need to touch it. You can measure this if you have a body voltage meter. You can measure outside the sauna and then go inside. You can even sit on the stool and keep your feet up. Because we have our new PureLayer bamboo towel system. So you're not designed to be on the mat. You want to protect that with a towel,

[01:08:38] Luke: Right. Yeah.

[01:08:38] Brian: But you don't need to touch it. The grounding effect draws positive voltage out of your body and corrects your body's voltage, which is the same as infusing it with electrons, basically. So you get a grounding effect without actually touching it. And even if you're on the bamboo, you're not touching the conductive layer that's the metallic fabric that's underneath the bamboo.

[01:09:02] So yeah, you get the grounding effect while you're in there, and you don't have any distractions. Whether it's your partner or your children or anything else, or it's Bluetooth track lighting or stuff like that. You go in there and, yeah, it's your 15, 20 minutes or a little more to do as much stacked healing as you can, as fast as you can.

[01:09:23] Luke: Even if you're tempted-- sometimes I'll go in there, I have to admit, and I'll bring my phone, and I try to text someone or download a podcast and I get no service.

[01:09:34] Brian: Yeah.

[01:09:36] Luke: And that reminds me, dude, you're not supposed to be having your phone in here anywhere.

[01:09:39] Brian: It's okay if you put into full airplane mode, which you got to actually make sure the Bluetooth and Wi-Fi is actually off. But that's cool to do to bring in something to listen, like a healing track or a meditation track. I'm constantly switching it up.

[01:09:55] For a while lately I've been listening to Ho'oponopono. There's a track where it's on repeat for 12 minutes, and singing that out loud to myself. And that's highly encouraged. It's another way to remind yourself to be present, to drop in. And that's what we're trying to do.

[01:10:15] We're trying to get everybody in there and trying as much as possible by mimicking nature's environment from EMF, from a light perspective, from heat, from a natural elements perspective, to bring the body into this maximal, parasympathetic present state where the body remembers, wow, I'm an infinite healing being. I can do all of this.

[01:10:41] And for the rest of your day, outside of that 15 or 20 minutes, you have all the opportunity in the world to interact with the world around you. But one of the biggest challenges that we have nowadays is we're ignorant and we're closed to the oneness of the cosmos and the world around us, and how powerful we are, how connected we are to everything.

[01:11:02] We've literally lost connection to ourselves. And we're looking for all this external validation. Like, what's Brian doing? What's Luke doing to heal their-- the body already knows. The body intelligence is unlimited. We just have to train that muscle and remember, and get in back in touch with it.

[01:11:20] So this approach that we've taken to the design, it very much encourages a remembrance of these deeper power that we have in the body. And that was something actually, I wanted to talk about, is another difference that a lot of our customers have in the experience of Sauna spaces.

[01:11:44] Basically we've been talking this whole time about body, about physiology. It's going to do this stuff for your mitochondria and it's going to increase your cellular energy and all that. But there's also this spiritual component to healing and to particularly what we do.

[01:12:00] We so many of our customers that are like more in the creative space, like musicians and entrepreneurs. People are really focused on using their creative abilities about how the benefits go way beyond the physiology in the body. Maybe it's in the first session or maybe it's after a while, there's an activation that occurs.

[01:12:24] Once you clear the junk out of your body, the toxins and the stuff, and out of your mind and your brain and your nervous system, you have the potential to really activate your intuition, your clarity, your sense of presence. And there's an awakening that happens there where we have tons of our more creative minded customers who talk about how their ability to drop into flow state after using SaunaSpace is amazing, incredible.

[01:12:55] It's not just about benefits to the body, even though that's the entrance. Most people are coming in. I've got some pain. My sleep sucks, whatever. That's okay. That's a great place to start. But the human being is way more than that. And we have so much more that's ready to be unlocked once we clear the path. And for so many people, this experience with our product is unexpected. It's this cascade of benefits that occurs as you slowly cleanse yourself.

[01:13:32] Luke: I would agree, man. It's like we were talking about before, the effects of sauna on your mood. If I ever feel funky, I'm just like, "Okay, I'm off today." I'll just take my clothes off and go in the backyard and just sit in the sun for 20 minutes with my feet in the grass. And just going, "I don't know. I don't think this is going to work." Even though I know it works every time. But when you feel funky, it's like you can't remember what it felt like when you felt really good, and it never freaking fails.

[01:14:04] Brian: Yeah.

[01:14:05] Luke: Just like, wow, I'm living in a new world just from touching the ground and getting in the sun. And the same thing is true of the sauna. I think that's one of the reasons that I like doing it before podcast too, is the-- I never thought about flow state. I feel like a mental clarity that is required sometimes to have these conversations, especially ones that are more formal or structured.

[01:14:31] Talking to someone like you, we're just shooting the shit like we would if there were no cameras on. But if I'm talking to a freaking biochemist or something, I feel like I need to be pretty sharp to be able to keep up. But it's just the mood thing. My ideal state is totally relaxed and highly vital and energized at the same time. So not relaxed and lethargic and dopey and not energized and vital to the point of overstimulation.

[01:15:01] Brian: Yeah. No present.

[01:15:03] Luke: Yeah.

[01:15:03] Brian: Very deeply present. And we all have this ability, and our modern world has conditioned us to totally forget this. Always worrying about the future or regretful about the past or whatever. Just constantly thinking about everything else except what's right in front of us.

[01:15:26] And it's like, how do you get there? Well, with SaunaSpace, it's this way where you don't have to try. You just sit there and you don't do anything. And all of a sudden, yeah. Wow, my mood's better. I have more clarity. I have more presence. My patience, whatever it is, it all comes back to you.

[01:15:50] And even if you lose it again, it immediately comes back to you. For me, I just recently moved to Florida, and I go back each month to work at the factory. The SaunaSpace is based in Columbia, Missouri, and it's a little more cloudy there in the winter. Especially in the winter.

[01:16:10] And I could definitely tell that my performance in a work environment, in a creative space is probably only like 80% if I hadn't used my sauna in the morning beforehand and also done some of my other morning rituals. Whereas, yeah, if I use it, I have so much stamina and I can do things. It's about being in flow state.

[01:16:37] If you try to do things when you're in strong beta brainwave state, your productivity is only so much. To where if you can get your body into a deeply present, more of a theta state, which is what you are actually when you wake up, you can get so much done so much faster that you don't need to work as much.

[01:16:59] Your productivity is so much increased. So the game there is like, how do we increase that productivity? How do we get into that flow state? And for me, with the sauna and the sauna space, and that's what all of our people talk about, it does it every time in the morning.

[01:17:17] And it's something that you don't have to think about. You're not like trying to meditate or anything like that. It's something that just happens. And it's a 15 minute thing. And then whatever else you're doing during the day, you're more present, more clear, more available.

[01:17:34] Luke: What do we know about the effects of heat and light on neurotransmitters and hormones?

[01:17:42] Brian: Oh, there's so much.

[01:17:45] Luke: To take it back the physical, this is the part of physical that has such a direct impact on your emotional and spiritual.

[01:17:50] Brian: It does. Because the hormones, they're our main communicators. They're our messenger molecules in the body, and there's great benefit to heat therapy and light therapy. So combining the two of them and getting the best of both worlds is amazing.

[01:18:05] Light therapy releases serotonin and dopamine from the neurotransmitters and the nerve cells in the brain. So it makes you feel happy. It makes you feel good. It also helps facilitate the detox. So when your cells are detoxing, you're basically heating them up with sauna. You're heating them up, and you're activating heat shock proteins that are not normally working.

[01:18:32] And these start to get made when the cell gets heated up, and they make cell detox more effective, basically. But the detox is not just about the sweating. Detox is this complex process in the body. The cells activate and toxins go out of the cells. They go to the lymphatic system.

[01:18:52] They pass through that, and hopefully some of them go to the sweat glands and get sweated out. Others go into the bloodstream. They get processed by the liver. There's all these complex systems that are going on to have profound cellular detox of the deepest organs of our body. And the light therapy is there to make all that way more efficient.

[01:19:12] You have energy. You're giving the cell energy directly. You're increasing vasodilation and blood circulation, and you're helping that the detox be way more profound and way more holistic, way more substantial in the body. And all of that actually affects your mood.

[01:19:30] And so we see that actually with regular sauna studies too, is another thing is heat in the nerve cells causes the promotion of brain derived neurotropic factor, BDNF, and your brain cells just love that. It's like this miracle row type of thing for your nerve cells.

[01:19:50] And so the benefits of heat therapy and of life therapy separately, it would just improve mood clearly. And when you do two of them, both of them together, you get a huge mood boost. There's not a whole lot of things that can do that, and you're not ingesting anything other than the light itself.

[01:20:11] Luke: Getting high on your own supply.

[01:20:12] Brian: Yeah, totally.

[01:20:14] Luke: I used to think that, okay, if you detox when you sweat, then if I just go running or go work up a sweat, I'll be detoxing. And someone told me in one of these 650 interviews that when you're exercising, even if you're sweating, you're in a sympathetic state and your body doesn't detox when you're sympathetic, which is one of the reasons why people that sleep like shit get sick so often-- is because they're not going through the detox processes that would happen when you're sleeping, when you're parasympathetic.

[01:20:57] Have you looked into being brought into a parasympathetic state in a sauna session and how that helps facilitate detox in ways that regular sweating when you've been active doesn't?

[01:21:12] Brian: No, that's absolutely true, and we have wrote a blog article about this too. There are a number of studies that compare the sweat of someone on a treadmill to the sweat of someone in a sauna. And there's a stark contrast in toxin concentration being way higher in the sauna sweat.

[01:21:32] And so you absolutely are detoxing way more powerfully when you're sweating passively in a sauna versus working out. What's going on underneath that? In the sauna, it is actually a sympathetic experience in a way because you increase heart rate and you increase blood supply to the tissues.

[01:21:52] You do have some synthetic activation, but you're not doing anything. You're not working out. So the cells are like, "Wow, I have all this extra energy. I've got my mojo and I can now use it to renew, to replenish, to heal." And so you get a lot of those amazing parasympathetic benefits.

[01:22:13] You get an increase in HRV, and the body goes to town and doing what it wants to do most, which is to cleanse itself. And so, yeah, that's very clear in the literature. You can look at the 9/11 rescue worker studies, and there's other studies too that are out there. On our website, we have this cool research archive where we link to a lot of that. So if you care about the white papers and stuff.

[01:22:35] Luke: Yeah, yeah. The 9/11 one sounds interesting. We'll put that at lukestorey.com/saunaspace2. And also, for anyone that wants to check out the SaunaSpace product line, you can go to sauna.space/luke, and for the next two weeks, that code will get you a 15% off discount.

[01:22:56] And then after that period, the same code will get you 10%. And you don't have to remember that. We'll put it all in the show notes as well. In detox, have you looked into the niacin flush protocol or people using binders?

[01:23:14] Brian: Yeah. In the 9/11 rescue workers studies, they were doing the L. Ron Hubbard protocol.

[01:23:19] Luke: Yeah, yeah. I did that once.

[01:23:21] Brian: What's interesting is the niacin promotes the nitric oxide cycle, basically in the body, which has all these amazing benefits of vasodilation and stuff like that.

[01:23:32] So the light therapy from near infrared light does that already. It's a built-in niacin dose that you get, which is another, I think, explanation of why combining the near infrared light and doing the light and heat therapy together is so effective.

[01:23:47] Because that's what they were doing with the L. Ron Hubbard protocol, is you take high dose niacin and you do the sauna twice a day and you're just doing that really intensely for a couple weeks and then a break, and then you keep doing it.

[01:23:55] In those studies, the amounts of xylene and toluene, it just had all these chemicals coming out of the sweat. Was just incredible. And they were measuring the blood levels of these chemicals, and they were going down consistently. And they did a six month protocol.

[01:24:15] So yeah, that's very clear. And the niacin's a cool way to combine it. Methylene blue is also another cool thing to add because methylene blue's photodynamic, so it activates some of the-- it basically acts as electron donor, and it increases the of productivity of the mitochondrial electron transport, so what the mitochondria does.

[01:24:40] But it doesn't do that to the cytochrome c, the enzyme that's the light activator, the light activated one that absorbs the near infrared light. So when you take methylene blue and then you get into the SaunaSpace on, get the FireLight on your body, you get a 30 to 40% increase in the effectiveness of the methylene blue. So they really enhance each other.

[01:25:00] Luke: That's what I did this morning.

[01:25:01] Brian: Yeah. You're familiar with that, so it's--

[01:25:03] Luke: That combo is--

[01:25:04] Brian: And that's an interesting combo because that is a synthetic dye that was invented right around when incandescent bulbs are invented, interestingly enough. That's a cool hack. I love doing that. There's a way to do that. You don't use it every day. But it's very effective and a lot of people get a lot of benefit out of that, and you don't need very much.

[01:25:26] But also binders. Yeah, it's a huge thing. The body needs help binding all of this stuff, so I take-- I use different things. Lately I like Dr. Group's Global Healing Activated Ozonated Charcoal.

[01:25:39] Luke: Oh yeah, it's great.

[01:25:41] Brian: That's just a great binder. He also has a toxin binder tincture. That's really good. Also there's a spray called advanced TRS. It's like a zeolite. It's like a micro clay spray. That's one of the safest things that anyone can use, even kids.

[01:25:58] Luke: Yeah. I even [Inaudible] share of zeolite, dude. This company ZeoCharge, I had the guy on the show a while ago, it's amazing. Super clean zeolite.

[01:26:04] Brian: Yeah. And it's safe. It's not too intense.

[01:26:09] Luke: With the zeolite, one thing I've wondered, I usually will do, I don't know how many grams, four, six big-ass scoops in a glass of water. And I usually do it after I get out of the sauna. Do you think that's the right way to do it? Or if somebody wants to use binders like charcoal or zeolite, would you drink that before you get in the sauna?

[01:26:29] Brian: That's a great question. I've done both.

[01:26:32] Luke: Yeah, me too.

[01:26:32] Brian: I play with it a lot.

[01:26:33] Luke: I feel like I'm liberating toxins. Obviously, some are coming out through your sweat. But your blood's pumping and stuff, so it seems like your eliminatory organs are probably spitting some of that stuff out into your bowel and into your bloodstream. So it's made sense to me intuitively to do binders afterward, but I could be totally tripping. Or maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it's all good.

[01:27:01] Brian: I think it's all good generally just to support the sauna detox protocol with a binder. Personally with SaunaSpace, I recommend using it before because the session's so fast. If you take that capsule, it takes a good 10 minutes, 15 minutes for that to open up.

[01:27:18] So what I've been doing, and that's my go-to now, is if I'm going to take a binder, I take it right before I get in. And sometimes I include EDTA as well. And also combining that with vitamin C for nanoparticle detoxification.

[01:27:37] Luke: Oh, tell me about this. You're using the Global Healing EDTA?

[01:27:41] Brian: Yeah, yeah. They have a really clean EDTA. There's other forms out there. There's suppositories too and all kinds of crazy stuff, but very safe. Pretty safe binder was invented in World War II for the detoxing soldiers from chemicals. And it has an interesting newer application because some of the newer toxins we're dealing with are nanoparticle toxins that are really in everything now.

[01:28:08] And not just pharmaceutical medicine, but food. And we're just exposed to it everywhere. And these things are really small and they're hard to get out of the body. That's one thing that's really special about using the FireLight, lighting and heat together and getting that near infrared light super deep and get that super deep detox to get these nanoparticles out.

[01:28:31] Because they're really pernicious and they vagal their way into the fat and the fascia and that organ tissues, and just very difficult for the body to get out. But one way to enhance your SaunaSpace session with a nanoparticle specific detox binder is EDTA combined with methylene blue and vitamin C.

[01:28:54] There's this interaction between them that this has been tested now in urine samples, before and after. And the amount of nanoparticles being in the urine being much higher. And I've actually seen this myself. I've tested it because you can see in the urine, if you just basically pee into a jar and you look at it afterwards, after like a day, there's this hazy mist.

[01:29:22] There's this haziness that's hanging in the urine that's nanotech. It's like nanoplastic that is molecularized and bonded together, and you can see it. It's crazy and it separates from the top of the bottom. It's like really there, and it's in our body. So this is a cool thing that's being explored right now.

[01:29:43] There's this lady, Maria Crisler, who actually works with Dr. Group on some things, and she's a parasite researcher and expert, and she has some really cool parasite products. Her brand is Abeytu Naturals, and she has done a lot of exploration in this realm. But yeah, it's a cool way to deal with something that's really hard to deal with.

[01:30:08] But also one of the most powerful ways to deal with nanoparticles and spike glycoprotein, like spike protein, is sauna and light therapy together. Just that without the binders. There's people now doing blood tests studies where before and after the amount of spike glycoprotein in the blood goes down dramatically with our [Inaudible] particularly, but also with the combination of sauna and methylene blue or sauna and EDTA and vitamin C.

[01:30:43] Luke: With the methylene blue, how long do you think it takes to get into your bloodstream? What's the timing on dosing that? Because when I was talking about the fact that I accidentally preheat the SaunaSpace way too long sometimes, sometimes that's because I'm like, "Oh shit, I should take methylene blue. So I'll turn the sauna on. I take that, and I keep waiting to make sure that the methylene blue is moving around before I get in there.

[01:31:07] Brian: Yeah, it's a good half hour.

[01:31:08] Luke: Okay.

[01:31:09] Brian: Yeah. It is not a couple of minutes. So usually what I do is I get up. If I want to use methylene blue, I take that first. And then I'll either do a little workout or a VibePlate. And so I like that a lot actually. Methylene blue. And then whether or not I work out, get on the VibePlate for five or 10 minutes and just vibrate that methylene blue into all of my cells.

[01:31:32] And you do need at least half an hour. It's into the cells of the body. And then when you get into your SaunaSpace or the sun, you get that real photodynamic activation that you're looking for. The only way to be quicker than that would be a EDTA, or it would be a methylene blue suppository. That would be faster. But that sounds super messy. I'm like, that's not something that is in my realm of possibility.

[01:31:54] Luke: There's a lot of ruined toilets out there from Dr. John's methylene blue suppositories. Yeah.

[01:32:00] Brian: Yeah.

[01:32:01] Luke: If you go to someone's house and it's really stain blue, you know you got a serious biohacker on your hands.

[01:32:06] Brian: One thing I wanted to mention actually before we wrap up is, just talking about the problem a little bit, of the world we live in, and trying to raise a little bit awareness there. Because a long time ago, for example, there was no toothbrushes.

[01:32:29] You didn't need to brush your teeth. There was no flour. There was no cane sugar that we were consuming. It was all natural. But as society changed and civilization developed and advanced, there became a need for man-made technologies to help keep us healthy.

[01:32:48] And in today's modern world, we are exposed to this level of toxins that our ancestors never had to deal with. And it's an incredible level of toxins. You've probably talked to your-- you are a total water expert now. I'm going to pick your brain about some home water stuff later.

[01:33:12] There's a lot of awareness now, like, "Oh yeah, water. We need to filter our water. The water's really dirty around us." And even the air, where there's more awareness, like, "Oh yeah, we need to filter the air." But no matter what we do, at the end of the day, the root cause of all disease is pollution, is poison in our internal environment.

[01:33:32] And so we can do all these corrections in our external environment, change our lights and all that stuff. But what are we doing in our internal environment? We need to use a really modern, effective, and safe approach to do this deep, deep detox of this freaking avalanche of toxins we're exposed to nowadays.

[01:33:51] And so it's like bathing. If you're not bathing routinely, you get dirty on the outside. And if you're not using sauna routinely, you're getting really dirty on the inside. Because your accumulation of toxins is unavoidable nowadays. It's really unavoidable. And it's like you said before. You use the SaunaSpace three times a week. I use it--

[01:34:21] Luke: I'm probably more days than that.

[01:34:24] Brian: It's an essential tool.

[01:34:27] Luke: I would say minimum three. Yeah.

[01:34:28] Brian: Yeah. It's really an essential tool that we need to bring awareness to. It's not enough to just do a juice cleanse or do a liver cleanse. Even those are really effective. There's this deep, visceral cellular detox that we need to get into. And what we're doing is the best way to do it.

[01:34:50] It's just to go in super deep with light using the power of light technology, of near infrared light, and to combine that with super deep radiant heat to activate this necessary cellular detox in the deepest parts of the body. And all saunas are great. There's a lot of great sauna options out there. But what we're doing is deepest-- it's like if you take a shower.

[01:35:17] You're like, "Okay, I'm going to take a shower. I'm going to cleanse myself." But if you don't have filtered water, you're scrubbing the outside clean, but you're making the inside more toxic. Really. And so that's our approach to everything, is let's do super, super deep detox in this environment that's very clean and protected and dedicated to healing, dedicated to restoration and purification of the body.

[01:35:47] Luke: How important is it to towel off all of the new sweat during a session?

[01:35:55] Brian: During the session, it doesn't matter. The detoxification pathways are really complex. Imagine a heavy metal coming from your pancreas. The heat shock protein brings it out, and it's got quite a highway. It goes through to actually be sweat out. But once it's sweat out, yes, the toxins are in the sweat, but there's not like if it's sitting on your skin more than a minute, it gets reabsorbed back into where it came from.

[01:36:25] All you need to do is use the towels in the session, then afterwards just rinse your body off. And you don't even need to really soap afterwards. A good scrubbing will exfoliate your body, your skin, and make it look really nice. And you don't really need a lot, maybe a little bit of soap for your pits.

[01:36:44] There's not a concern with retoxing with having a little sweat sit on your skin for a while. Even if you didn't have access to a shower afterward, if you just toweled off, your skin might be a little itchy. Yeah. And there's a little bit of toxins remaining there, but they're not going all the way back into your body at all.

[01:37:05] Luke: I feel that I sweat a lot more when I continually dry off during the sessions, which is what I always do. You mentioned on one of your other podcasts, weighing yourself before and after because I'm always wondering-- my little hand towel, it's disgusting.

[01:37:26] It's like one of those hand towel that you put next to the sink in the bathroom. Yay big. You could almost ring that thing out after every session. So I've thought about could I weigh the towel before and after? I never had the idea of weighing my body. So thank you for that. You're a genius.

[01:37:43] But I feel like I'm getting much more sweat out by continuing to dry off. It seems to me like I'm freeing the runway on all the pores continually and just making space for that sweat to come out. Do you think that's true, or would it just drip on the floor same way?

[01:38:01] Brian: Yeah. I don't know. Honestly, I'm curious to test that myself. I find that what affects how much I sweat is much more the state I am when I go in, whether I'm well hydrated or not. Or if I don't sleep well and I stay up late, my body will take longer to sweat. The more my homeostasis has shifted into maybe a little more high stress or more toxic, the sweat response is slower or faster.

[01:38:30] So I don't towel myself off. I don't time myself, so I gauge how long I've been in there and more on how I feel and how much sweat I see coming off. I like to just be more intuitive with it. So I actually like to watch, and when I get a certain amount of beating of sweat on my limbs, on my arms, I'm like, "Yes, I'm just about there."

[01:38:56] Luke: Okay. How about this? In terms of timing, is there a law of diminishing returns? And I ask because sometimes it's embarrassing the weird shit that I do, but whatever. It is what it is. When I fly, I like to take the little oxygen canisters, if I can get them through TSA. The small ones, I usually can for hiking and high altitudes and stuff, little oxygen.

[01:39:23] Luke: Well, I had a few of those laying around and I thought, oh, sometimes I get out of the sauna because I'm just smoked and I feel like I can't breathe. So I was like, "Can't breathe. I know what to do there. Oxygen." So I started putting a little canister of oxygen down in the corner so it doesn't get too hot and explode or something. And when I'm in your sauna and I start to get just totally smoked, I'll huff on that oxygen and I can stay way longer.

[01:39:48] Brian: Whoa.

[01:39:49] Luke: Yeah. Do you think that's dumb? Is there a point where it becomes unhealthy to stay hot for that long?

[01:39:57] Brian: It's what's called hormetic stress. So there is a lot of diminishing returns. There's a maximum benefit duration that you want to hit. And the same thing with light therapy too. Too much has diminishing returns. And way, way, way too much can actually be harmful. You see that in the light therapy studies.

[01:40:18] Yes, in saunas, there's-- I remember seeing once this Russian sauna competition where they're competing for how much they can be in the sauna or whatever, and one of the contestants dies because he stays in the sauna way too long.

[01:40:34] So yeah, you're only trying to heat your body up three or four degrees Fahrenheit. The weighing thing before and after is, of course, a left brain way to measure that. But you can measure with the thermometer or whatever. Your heat shock protein response is maximum once you heat the cells up three degrees or so for a period of minutes.

[01:40:56] So basically, you're trying to heat yourself up if you're starting at 98.6 to 101.6, 102, maybe 102 and a half, and then staying there for maybe five minutes, maybe 10 minutes, and you get this maximum boom, powerful detox. If you stay in there too long, you will heat yourself too much. You'll get heat stroke eventually.

[01:41:19] I like to recommend people be more on the cautious side just to be safe. Don't stay in there too long. But the more you use it, a seasoned user like yourself, you can stay in actually longer, and you can take it.

[01:41:33] But the really powerful benefits that you can get and do get come from just sweating about a pound of water out and raising your core temperature three degrees. You can take it more and get some benefit, but you don't need to to get the benefit. And something else that's interesting, this actually newer research, is we know that sauna promotes this awesome production of growth hormone.

[01:41:58] But what's interesting is if you use sauna two times a day or even three times a day, you go boom, boom, boom. You can 4 or 5x your growth hormone response, way more than just one sauna session.

[01:42:11] Luke: Really?

[01:42:12] Brian: Yeah. It's about just, once in a while, okay, today I'm going to do the sauna three times and just do it once a month or something like that. And you get this huge response because it's this idea of hormetic stress. You're taking a really temporary time, and you're stressing out the body intelligently, but really intensely for a very brief period of time.

[01:42:35] And then giving your body plenty of time to rest afterwards and you get this amazing beneficial response. So that's actually something else that's newer that I've started playing with only in the last year, is once in a while I'll do two or three sauna sessions in one day.

[01:42:50] Luke: Oh, dope.

[01:42:50] Brian: And then I'll take a few days I don't do any. Yeah.

[01:42:54] Luke: I've definitely done days where I've done one in the morning and at night, but I don't think I've ever packed in three. Sometimes you got work.

[01:43:01] Brian: Yeah. Right, right, right.

[01:43:05] Luke: What do you know about the increasing and ubiquitous EMF and 5G in our environment and how it's affecting our relationship to light?

[01:43:19] Brian: It's this manmade stress that is really hard to avoid now, and we never had it before historically, and it's really hard to escape. Where can you not answer your cell phone? And it's basically a nervous stressor that stresses us out. And it's another form of electromagnetism, just like light is electromagnetism, has an electric and magnetic component to it.

[01:43:56] But it's all in the microwave band. The home's electricity is super low. It's like 60 hertz, so ultra-low frequency. But most of the EMF, the manmade EMF is cell phone, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, cellular radio waves and stuff. It's basically all microwaves. And they totally disrupt our ability of our body to work with light and use light. Our body has so many light systems inside of it.

[01:44:19] The voltage gates, the calcium ion channels, it's a basic messenger system in all the cells. that's a voltage gate. The blood-brain barrier is controlled by electrical voltage and everything. Even the heart. The heart is a water structuring electromagnet that takes blood that's in liquid state and runs through in vortexes and creates structured, fourth phase water that then flows electrostatically down the arteries.

[01:44:47] And when you take an outside electric field and you influence these systems, it disrupts everything. So if you look at the literature, and there's so much now-- there's more and more awareness, I think, of it-- but there's so much literature now on the association between man-made electric field exposure and illness and disease.

[01:45:11] What's the number one association between cell phone use and disease? It's throat cancer and brain cancer. And I think we all get a feel for this. You work in front of your computer. You have your phone in your pocket for a long time. It feels off once you notice it.

[01:45:27] It's disrupting all of our cellular and quantum biology that's all light-based. The mitochondria communicates with the nucleus with near infrared wavelengths. Our DNA actually emits light. They're called bio-photons. Even our bodies. So we emit light. We're not just light-absorbing beings, absorbing and eating the light from the sun.

[01:45:49] We're emitting light. And it's not just at the macro level. It's literally the little molecules in all of our cells are talking to each other and communicating with light. And the introduction of manmade EMF is, unfortunately, a big disruptor of all of that. So that's why we're really big into the EMF shielding.

[01:46:10] And our product and the grounding and all that is to try to get the body back into its natural state so it can do what it's designed to do. And that's another thing that's cool about sauna actually, is it reverses the oxidative stress effect of EMF exposure.

[01:46:30] Luke: Really?

[01:46:31] Brian: Yeah. There's a thing that's called proxy nitrite that gets created when you get an EMF stress on you just all the time. And sauna therapy increases the production of tetrahydrobiopterin, BH4, which consumes peroxynitrite. So sauna therapy is literally reversing the stress on the body that EMFs cause. So when you're in there, you're not just getting a heavy metal detox. You're getting an EMF detox too.

[01:47:03] Luke: What a trip.

[01:47:04] Brian: Yeah.

[01:47:04] Luke: And especially if you're in your shielded model, then you're not getting blasted with EMF from outside. You could have a Wi-Fi router next to your freaking sauna and it won't penetrate the wall.

[01:47:19] Brian: Yeah. That's the best way to go about it. It's like we're trying to do all this healing stuff. We want our environment to be as clean as possible. And yeah, doing it in a shielded environment, it's just different. It's like going into just nature's womb, where it is like, you can't even describe-- there's a quietness to the senses that you have. And a big part of that is just a break from all the manmade EMF.

[01:47:45] Luke: It's like going in a little cave. That's how I think of it. It's like I'm going in my little man cave.

[01:47:50] Brian: Yeah, yeah.

[01:47:51] Luke: Yeah. Let me see. I know there's going to be things I think of. I'm not going to let you go because I have more-- oh, I know what I wanted to ask you. Going back to inventor phase, so when you made your first little janky sauna with just heat lamps, essentially, at what point did you realize that you needed to upgrade the bulbs?

[01:48:14] And what was the process of that, and what makes this red bulb that we're looking at, those that are watching the video? There you go. You can see the one we're talking about right here. Because I've had people ask me like, "Oh yeah, I raised chickens, and we have those red chicken lights. I just go to Home Depot and get those. I'm like, "I don't think that's the same thing." And it probably like puts out a shit ton of EMF.

[01:48:38] So what was that period where you were like, "Ooh, we could make this better?" And why is it better or different than just a regular heat lamp like you used to see in grandma's bathroom in the '70s?

[01:48:48] Brian: Yeah, yeah. And that's what Dr. Kellogg was using. So it was a part of the journey of-- I didn't have any business background, actually. I worked in a synthetic chemistry lab. So I worked in a research lab when I was in college, and I have a chemistry degree and a Spanish literature degree.

[01:49:07] I always, honestly, looked down at business. I was like, "Wow, it's manipulative. I'm going to be a doctor, like my parents." And I was so naive back then. I had no idea how exciting and the creative aspect of products can be. Business and sales doesn't have to be about manipulation. It can be about energy exchange and mutually uplifting people.

[01:49:38] And so I got really excited from the beginning. I was looking at everything. When I got my SBA loan, I was like, "I want to do this and I want to do that. I need robots and I need capital." And from the very beginning I was like, "There's got to be something about the bold that can be better."

[01:49:52] And that was a many, many years long journey of testing and prototyping and basically redesigning the filaments of the bulb to run at a higher Kelvin, which changes the spectrum and moves it more into near infrared. Where a regular heat lamp has more mid infrared and far infrared because it's peaking at a longer wavelength.

[01:50:18] It's peaking at probably 1,500 nanometers or something. Yeah, something like that. I wanted to increase the Kelvin, so the incandescent light source, the filament that's made of tungsten that's emitting the light, that's glowing, that it would peak at near infrared more. Peak in the sweet spot of near infrared is between 800 and 1,000 nanometers.

[01:50:43] Although we're now seeing more benefit from photobiomodulation beyond that, which wasn't classically considered to be light therapy. So many, many years and lots of samples and lots of hair pulling, frustration, and a couple of times where I was like, "I don't think this is possible, and I may just give up."

[01:51:04] And so many, many years, I finally got it to work right where the spectrum peaks in near infrared. So it's full spectrum infrared. There's some red light that you see. But most of the light is near infrared. And there's also some mid-infrared and far infrared too. But most of the light is in that sweet spot where we get optimal light therapy and optimal radiant heat therapy in that near infrared zone.

[01:51:30] And I developed that along with some other cool things, like I made sure it was using stained glass, which is the old way of making light bulbs. Remember the windows we talked about? I wanted it to be really high quality and high frequency. So the glass is also hard quartz glass. So the regular heat lamps is like soft, what's called soft glass. It's kind of got a high frequency to the material itself that--

[01:51:54] Luke: It's made of crystal.

[01:51:56] Brian: Yeah, essentially. Ground up crystal.

[01:51:57] Luke: It's crystals, man.

[01:51:57] Brian: It's a thing.

[01:52:03] Luke: I love crystals. I'm a [Inaudible] crystal fans.

[01:52:03] Brian: It's stained glass and most of the heat lamps are painted.

[01:52:08] Luke: So the red pigment that I'm seeing is actually in the glass. It's not just like a film on it.

[01:52:13] Brian: Correct, yeah.

[01:52:14] Luke: Oh, cool.

[01:52:15] Brian: Most of the heat lamps, it's just a film. It's just sprayed with paint on the inside, basically.

[01:52:21] Luke: Right. Which is another reason these never fade.

[01:52:24] Brian: Yeah.

[01:52:25] Luke: Because I bought incandescent red lights to put in the ceiling fixtures from Amazon or whatever. It comes and it's red, and then two months later it's just yellow because the red paint or whatever is faded. It burned off.

[01:52:41] Brian: Yeah. Exactly. That's just the cheap way to do it. So these are definitely a lot more costly to make, but it's all totally worth it, because you get this really unique spectrum where you get this powerful healing-- the most powerful component of the sun's healing spectrum is in near infrared.

[01:53:02] And also the light, this FireLight bulb that I created is still mimicking the quality and form of sunlight's infrared. The distribution of the power levels of the wavelengths, having all the wavelengths and having them have this smooth, curved shape, if you look at the spectrum on our website, that's what the body craves. That's in contrast to LEDs, which is just one wavelength. So if you look at the spectrum, it's like a spike.

[01:53:33] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[01:53:34] Brian: It was this really magic sauce that came out of a lot of years and a lot of testing. And there's other things too, like we force test the glass. So we make these and then we turn them on and we spray them with water, which sounds crazy, but it basically ensures any flawed glass fails. So when you get the SaunaSpace or you the bowl, but it's going to last as long as it can-- it's rated for 5,000 hours.

[01:54:04] Luke: So I was thinking about the longevity of the bulbs. And I'm not great at math, but I know I lived in LA, so it had to be five, six years ago when I got my first little single bulb.

[01:54:21] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[01:54:22] Luke: What do you call this unit?

[01:54:23] Brian: This is the Glow

[01:54:24] Luke: The Glow, okay. So you sent me one of those, and I used to use it in my cabinet sauna because it would take so long to get hot, which is something I want to talk about too. And then I had it in my office, like I was describing earlier. Long story short, this thing's been on for hundreds of hours, and the bulb only went bad three months ago.

[01:54:51] Brian: Seven years. Yeah.

[01:54:52] Luke: It's like forever, dude. If you get incandescent bulbs and put them in a lamp and use it that often, they're not going to last.

[01:55:02] Brian: Yeah.

[01:55:03] Luke: It's crazy. It's like forever.

[01:55:05] Brian: That's our design approach to everything, is we're not the cheapest option out there. It's all handmade in USA and all that. But I everything's designed to last forever, including the bulbs. So the bulbs are rated for 5,000 hours. There are some that fail, and it just is what it is, but most of them will last years of use.

[01:55:28] And if you think about the sauna, the Glow light may need a bulb replacement a little more frequently, like every few years. But the sauna, if you're only using it an hour a day and you think of a lifetime of thousands of hours of bulb life, they usually last you as long as you'll have it.

[01:55:46] Luke: Probably last longer than you. Why did you decide to keep manufacturing in the US instead of doing what many brands do and go to China?

[01:55:57] Brian: Oh, well, I definitely at times--

[01:56:01] Luke: That will get me kicked off TikTok again.

[01:56:03] Brian: Yeah. I've definitely questioned myself at times and I've thought, yeah, if I maybe took a different approach, our growth or our scale would've been more dramatic with angel investment and basically moving the production as all companies do to Vietnam or someplace.

[01:56:18] But no, it was always a core ethos of mine to make it here. And both to have it be made at this super high quality and also to be able to control the manufacturing. So the design and manufacturing were in-house, and that's allowed us to evolve the design of the product very carefully and meticulously and not be driven by quarterly profits or whatever that most corporations are operating by.

[01:56:50] And at the same time, it's been challenging. It costs a lot more to make things in the US. Our margins are not nearly like what they are with all these other sauna companies or these cheap plastic, red light LED panels that they're all made in China or whatever. So it's a challenge we continue to navigate, and I enjoy it.

[01:57:17] We've done a lot of backend things that may sound boring, but we've implemented data and ERP systems and stuff so that we know how to cost things and have cash flow analysis. So that we're really carefully trying to balance providing the best price that we can to the customer and not having any compromise that I'm not willing to make in materials or design or how we care for our employees.

[01:57:43] We have a big wellness focus at our company. It's not just about coming to work. We want to make sure everybody's nourished and feeling good. And yeah, it's a lot more expensive to run a company here for manufacturing than it is anywhere else. So our approach is to build something of exquisite design and quality and value that will last you as long as you want to use it.

[01:58:12] And so I don't plan to change that anytime soon. I love that it's made here even with all the challenges and the frustration. And inflation has been a huge thing lately that's been very challenging for us for payroll to be competitive with other manufacturers and other just job market.

[01:58:32] But our approach is also very lean. SaunaSpace has over 30 employees, and the vast majority are actually in our workshop, in the production. Our front-end, it's all about automation and Shopify and doing things very lean in the front-end. We don't have like some huge sales department. We have three customer service representatives, and they're all amazing, and they're all in house, and they use the product and know it.

[01:59:02] And we're constantly looking at new ways to provide more value and then keeping our personnel focus on hand-making the product. And it's also a really cool approach energetically, because we do cool things that are hidden. I laser engrave the core values of the company inside here. You can't see it.

[01:59:22] But there's an aspect of, just like with food, when you go to your mom's house and she makes that homemade, whatever, that you love, that you grew up with, there's an energy that's imbued into the experience, into the product when something is handmade that just doesn't exist there otherwise.

[01:59:42] So in our workshop, we have robots. We have CNC wood cutting machines and laser engravers and embroidery machines and stuff like that. And there's this visceral component of the components of the product being touched by people who really care about what they're doing.

[02:00:02] And it translates to an imbuing, an energetic imbuing of love and care and value that's there, that is just not there when you have some cheap plastic thing that's supposed to give you some therapy and deliver something, but it doesn't have that human component in it.

[02:00:27] Luke: Totally.

[02:00:27] Brian: Yeah.

[02:00:28] Luke: I 100% agree and relate to that as someone who, as a hobby, has a lot of these technologies around. You tell when something just came off an assembly line in China or wherever. You know what I mean? God bless China. I even get emails every once in a while from-- I don't know.

[02:00:52] I don't know why or how they find me, but it'll be like a big manufacturer over there and they're like, "We make red light things and this and that, and we'll make them for you." I don't know if they want me to white label something or whatever, and it's like seeing the cost of what some of these things actually cost to manufacture versus what people are selling them for over here is freaking insane, dude.

[02:01:18] Brian: Yeah.

[02:01:19] Luke: The margins are nuts how much some of this stuff is marked up in the wellness tech.

[02:01:25] Brian: Yeah. You would think like, "Oh, yeah. At the most, maybe they're doubling their cost, but it's actually way higher than that." Some of these products are-- whether it's LED light panels, whether it's saunas, whether it's so many other things, their markups are huge, like 4X or more.

[02:01:47] There's huge margins that are there because yeah, it's a different world. And it's not just the labor. It's also the materials. It's really cheap to make things out of plastic. Or if you go buy doorknobs and you just get brass-coated zinc, you can get those things at Home Depot for whatever, 20 bucks. But if you go and buy a solid brass doorknob, it's like $200. But that's going to last you a long time.

[02:02:13] Luke: Dude, you know what's funny? You just mentioned that. When we renovated here-- I don't like cheap hardware. I don't like turning a doorknob that feels hollow. Call me crazy. It just feels like garbage. So I bought really nice Emtek, solid brass hardware, hinges and doorknobs. And they're all black, as you can see.

[02:02:36] Within months, the black paint wore off half of them. And now they're just half brass, half chipped black paint. So even sometimes when you're like, you know what? I'm going to bite the bullet because I just want quality. I want something that'll last. Sometimes it doesn't.

[02:02:54] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[02:02:55] Luke: I was just thinking about that actually yesterday as I walked around the house. I was like, "Dude, half these are--" I'm just going to need to peel all the paint off and they're just going to be gold now. So you guys, while we were recording, which sometimes happens, that's when you do a in-home studio. It's one of the prices you have to pay sometimes.

[02:03:12] Someone ring the doorbell. And it was FedEx with a box from none other than SaunaSpace. So I open it up and I'm like," Oh, sick, Brian." Look you guys. He sent me a chef's hat. I can go spin some pizzas. But no, what it actually is is really cool and something that has been necessary for a while, speaking of innovation, and that is a really cool circular, fitted towel pad to go on the stool.

[02:03:46] Brian: Yeah.

[02:03:46] Luke: Which is rad.

[02:03:48] Brian: Yeah. It's our newest product.

[02:03:51] Luke: Is this out in the public yet, or am I really special?

[02:03:52] Brian: It's out in the public.

[02:03:53] Luke: Oh, man. Everyone has one already.

[02:03:55] Brian: It's not well-marketed yet, but yeah, it took actually over a year and a half to develop. It was strange how long it took because we have these made with a partner facility. They make towels, and they don't like doing anything out of the box. They only like square things.

[02:04:12] All the towels you've ever bought are all square or rectangle. So this ended up being this painstaking process to make that towel, which is round with a side facing, and it has five layers in it.

[02:04:27] So it's a five layer towel. It's four pedals inside. You can open it up if you want. Because I wanted to make sure that it would absorb all the sweat, none would get on your stool, and it'd also be cushy and comfy.

[02:04:41] Luke: Yeah.

[02:04:41] Brian: And it was so many prototypes to get it. We actually switched our partner who we were working with two times.

[02:04:48] Luke: That's funny because your average person would look at this and be like, "Yeah, I could get that made tomorrow."

[02:04:54] Brian: Yeah, go try. Yeah. When you try to do something that's different in manufacturing, it's very challenging. So of course for us, we're doing things differently, but it's also a cool material. It's made of regenerative, sustainable EcoTech's bamboo, which it's got good ethics behind it, and it's good for the environment. Even though there's a lot of bamboo products that aren't, where they're clear-cutting bamboo forests basically in China.

[02:05:22] Luke: Really?

[02:05:23] Brian: Yeah. This is regenerative. So it's very carefully harvested and replanted.

[02:05:29] Luke: So there's greenwashing going on in the bamboo industry.

[02:05:30] Brian: Absolutely. Yeah. That's the reason why we have got certification for cotton and fabrics, is to ensure that people are paid fairly and also the process doesn't have any chemical inputs into it. So this is bleached with hydrogen peroxide, not chlorinated bleach.

[02:05:51] Luke: Oh, wow. You're hardcore, dude.

[02:05:52] Brian: So we did all this stuff. It took for forever, it seems like. But bamboo's also really cool because it has a cooling effect. It's really interesting. Versus cotton. When you sit on this, it just feels a little cooler even when you sweat on it versus a regular cotton towel. You can get really nice towels that are cotton, but--

[02:06:12] Luke: I'm excited, dude, because I have kind of a bony ass, and you have a beautiful wood stool, but it's not super comfortable if you don't have any cushion in the glutes. So I bought one of those-- it's not memory foam, it's like a rubber pad that you would use, I don't know, sitting at a desk or something.

[02:06:32] Luke: And then I just put an organic cotton towel over it. But if I leave the stool in there and I preheated it all, it is so hot when you sit on it. So I'm excited for this.

[02:06:43] Brian: Yeah, no, this is cool.

[02:06:44] Luke: Because now I have to take the stool out and turn it on, and I'm like, "I don't want to get in there and burn my ass literally. So yeah, that's actually really cool.

[02:06:53] Brian: Yeah. So this is our PureLayer collection, and it's this one. And then I also got you a mat cover. And it's a triple layer and trapezoidal shape fits our unique sauna shape and protects the floor. And then it's got little coconut buttons on it, so everything's natural on it and reinforced.

[02:07:12] And it will withstand a really strong washing, which is what you want to do. When you sweat, you've got toxins that are coming out. For most people, they can smell it. Especially initially when you get into a detox protocol. So you want to collect that sweat with the towel, with the PureLayer system, and then launder it.

[02:07:32] And these are really cool. These come with a little wash bag that's organic cotton, like a-- what ladies use to wash their lingerie.

[02:07:39] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[02:07:40] Brian: It's like one of those.

[02:07:41] Luke: Yeah.

[02:07:41] Brian: And you wash it in that, and that keeps it from getting damaged too much by getting pulled basically in the dryer. You can wash these so many times, and they still hold up. It's beautiful. It's really durable and soft and all these things.

[02:07:57] Luke: Well played, sir. Well played.

[02:07:58] Brian: Thank you. Thank you. It seems simple, like you said, a simple towel. It's really not.

[02:08:03] Luke: When I made my merch line, it took me a freaking year just to find-- forget about finding organic cotton on a print on demand. For those that don't know, it's called POD. Unless you want to manufacture stuff yourself, which I can't and won't. It took me like a year to find a company that would just do at least all cotton.

[02:08:28] Brian: Yeah.

[02:08:28] Luke: And still couldn't find a company that would do all cotton hoodies. Literally, it doesn't exist in that industry, the print on demand. They're just like, they don't do it. Period. It's like, oh my God.

[02:08:40] Brian: Yeah. And it's all blends nowadays, which is very low frequency.

[02:08:43] Luke: Oh, it's terrible, dude. That reminded me why I don't think I would make a good founder of something involving manufacturing, because I would be as picky as you, but maybe not have the skill to get it done, or the patience.

[02:09:01] All right. Before we go, I had to ask you what this is called because I don't know. I call this thing the light that sits in my office. And sometimes I even travel with them too if I know I'm going to be somewhere-- especially if it's somewhere where there's not a lot of sun, if I'm traveling somewhere in the winter or whatever.

[02:09:19] Tell me the proper uses of this, because every once in a while, I'll use it as a spot treatment if I'm having back pain or something like that. Or if my wife's knees hurts, I'll use it like you would a laser or a smaller red-light device. But mostly it's just for ambient light in the room. Or when it's winter here, I'll turn on both of them and it heats up the office pretty well.

[02:09:47] But then you have your four light panels, and I'm assuming some people just use those as a fireplace, like firelight. Some people are using these probably like I did, putting them in an existing sauna that you already have. You don't want to buy a second one or you don't have room for it. Give me a breakdown, what's the latest on how people are using the different configurations of the lights even outside of the full sauna.

[02:10:13] Brian: Yeah, it's a great question. So we start out with the Glow. This is our single light fixture. And it has a lot of lifestyle uses. The classical use is just to use it on the body, point it where it hurts, point it where you got symptoms, and keep it on there from 10 minutest up to an hour.

[02:10:32] We're going to limit it to 10 minutes per hour if it's the head or the throat because you want to be careful on the head. But it's a point and shoot thing. And you'll alleviate whatever symptoms you have, whether it's pain, neuropathies, edema, gut pain, if you like, have some leaky gut pain or whatever.

[02:10:50] Just use it on your gut. But also, it's used for mood improvement. So you can just sit and shine it on your face for five minutes, especially in the morning, and you're doing a lot of things. You can mimic the sunrise. We're supposed to get, not red so much as near infrared light in the eyes to calibrate the hormones for the day.

[02:11:12] This is pretty well researched now. And if you don't have sun, you can actually literally mimic it with this firelight, and you can just use it with the Glow, and do that. In just a few minutes, your body thinks that it's time to start the day. I've got the sun. So you can mimic the sunrise.

[02:11:28] You can use it for clean, blue, light-free, flicker-free lighting after dark so you're not getting blue light that messes with your sleep and messes with men's testosterone and all that kind of stuff. And you can also use it as an adjunct to anything else you're doing, like yoga, meditation, or breath work.

[02:11:45] It helps drop you into the mood and drop you into the presence and brings coherence to you, not just physically, but energetically with whatever you're doing. So those are a lot of lifestyle things, but there's other crazy-- we have so many crazy customer reviews on the website. You can encourage people to check them out.

[02:12:03] We just got a recent one where this lady has a son who has some cognitive issues, some autistic symptoms, and she gave this review where he wasn't feeling good. He was feeling really erratic. On his own without his mother requesting, he just goes over and sits in front of the Glow light for five minutes and calms down.

[02:12:31] He says, "Mom, I feel a lot better," and goes away. That's an example of just when you're uptight or you're anxious or you're edgy, it'll just recalibrate you immediately. It's a really powerful use, and of course you can travel with it. We have our cool, little, soft case you can get, so you can take it on the road. In the hotel room, it's all crappy LED light. This is a way to keep yourself sane while you're traveling. So those are all the different uses.

[02:12:56] Luke: You just reminded of that little case, dude.

[02:12:59] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[02:13:00] Luke: I forget. I just cleaned my garage out the other day and I didn't see it, but I know I had one somewhere. I got to find that because I'm going on a trip here in about a week, and I'd like to take this with me. I got to find the case.

[02:13:11] Brian: Yeah. You can totally travel with the case with it.

[02:13:13] Luke: It's like a little padded case that goes over ball, right?

[02:13:16] Brian: Yeah. It looks like a little camera case.

[02:13:18] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[02:13:18] Brian: But it's cool design. It's got room to slip the-- this comes with a little protective base. You can sit it on. It can slip in there if you want to bring that with you. And it'll keep it all really nice and safe, whether it's plane travel or whatever else.

[02:13:31] And then one of the other big things with this is what we talked about before. You can use it for technology fatigue and screen fatigue. So have this next to you whenever you're working at the computer indoors, and it cancels out the blue light and the flickering light, not just from the screens, but the overhead LED lighting that most people have.

[02:13:49] Luke: Really?

[02:13:50] Brian: Yeah. And you can measure this. I don't have my meter with me, but--

[02:13:54] Luke: What's it called? A spectrometer or something? That little--

[02:13:58] Brian: It's a flicker meter. Some expensive spectrometers have a flicker. They can measure the pulsing of the light.

[02:14:05] Luke: The little black one that shows you the color spectrum, it's like two grand or something that a lot of these guys have. That one, you can test the flicker. Brian Hoyer has one.

[02:14:14] Brian: Yeah. I have one too.

[02:14:14] Luke: He showed me the me the sun one day. He is like, "Look, that's an incandescent light. No flicker." And then we walked inside and it's like, tu tu tu. It's going crazy with the LED lights.

[02:14:23] Brian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's one of the most popular users actually, because it's great for pain and for all those other things. But what's one thing that we do so much nowadays? Is computer work. So it's a total essential hack for the computer environment that is amazing.

[02:14:43] Luke: Don't you have a stand or something you can clip to the desk that holds this or am I imagining that?

[02:14:49] Brian: Yes. That's another thing that I can't believe it's taken so long, but we're making our own desk arm, the Glow desk arm.

[02:14:57] Luke: Oh, cool.

[02:14:57] Brian: And it's about finally ready. It was supposed to be ready last year. Maybe I'm just too much of a perfectionist in some of the details, but yeah, this actually on the back has these holes. These are mounting holes for what's called a VESA arm. You can actually mount this to any computer.

[02:15:20] There's tons of them out there. It'll work with all of them. That's really cool because then it gets it off your desk so you don't compromise desk space. When I'm next to it at the computer, I don't need to point it on me. So I'm not trying to do this targeted therapy, which is too much for hours and hours. It can just sit like this next to you.

[02:15:39] Luke: Yeah.

[02:15:39] Brian: But if you have it on the Glow Desk Arm, yeah, it's really elite. You can have it. You just point it up, kind of, and it casts the non-flickering, full-spectrum infrared around you. If you measure with the meter, it completely eliminates measurable blue light and flickering rate. It's really wild.

[02:15:58] Luke: I don't understand the physics of that. Because if you take a super shitty fluorescent bulb or LED, and you put your iPhone on slowmo video, it's just like crazy flicker. And it seems so powerful, it's hard for me to imagine that this one light would overpower them. That's dope.

[02:16:17] Brian: Yeah, it's the high intensity in your infrared that's doing that. I think it's filling in the gaps between the pulses. So then what the body perceives is a non-pulsing light. And then with the blue light, honestly, I still don't understand why you can't measure any blue light. I'm not sure how it's canceling out the measurable blue light, but it is doing it. So you can measure that scientifically and then you can just feel it.

[02:16:48] Luke: I've seen it. Brian showed with your light. I was like, "Dude, next level."

[02:16:52] Brian: So this little bad boy has so many uses, and that's just this.

[02:16:56] Luke: Another thing that's cool with the little single light, with the Glow light, I'm going to get that name right, is just turning it on in a room at night. Because I've tried that with some of the little LED red lights. If it's pointed like out into the room, it's super harsh. It's too bright. It's not relaxing. Do you know what I'm saying?

[02:17:18] Brian: Yeah.

[02:17:19] Luke: Actually, I just took a trip to Colorado recently. Because this is was a little cumbersome for that particular trip, I bought a little red light panel that's this big.

[02:17:27] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[02:17:28] Luke: And I've kept it in the bathroom, so at night I didn't have to turn on the blue light. And I would turn it on. It's just like, you have to point it at the wall because it's so blinding. It's nice because it's red, but it's really harsh. You would never want to leave that on because it's actually irritating if it's facing you.

[02:17:46] Brian: It's harsh. It's clinical light.

[02:17:47] Luke: This guy is just like, I don't know. It's not super bright if you needed to read a book or something like that. But it's enough to light up a room with red light, but it isn't irritating if you walk by and having to look-- you can look right at the bulb and it's like actually not irritating at all.

[02:18:04] Brian: It's the difference of firelight. It feels like the campfire. Everything about it is calling you to just relax and chill. Yeah.

[02:18:13] Luke: Okay. So that's Glow one. What else do you guys have going on? I'm asking because I haven't been on your site in a while.

[02:18:18] Brian: Yeah. You should check out the site. We just finally launched our rebrand that took a couple years, and that's why some of the products have new names that we switched over. So that's why maybe you're not used to the Glow name. You had--

[02:18:28] Luke: What was it called? The Photon?

[02:18:29] Brian: It was called the Photon before. It was a little bit techy. That was my old mold, nerdy self. They're a little bit more warm Saxon names now. The sauna panel is called the Hearth now.

[02:18:42] Luke: Oh, cool.

[02:18:42] Brian: The Hearth infrared sauna panel. And that's what you have in the sauna that powers the sauna. And that and the Glow light are both used outside of the sauna in the living room, literally as a fireplace, as like smoke-free, clean. You just plug it in and turn it on. And people put that in the living room on our pedestal that we make. And it's, you get home, you flick that on and you have literally a campfire vibe the rest of the evening. You don't have to turn your overhead lights on, or just minimally.

[02:19:12] And then the Hearth particularly, it's a lot of light. It really is a campfire. You can chill. So people use it in the living room literally as this fireplace replacement. It's both lifestyle, but also, you can sit in front of it and just relax for a little bit while you're in the midst of all these other things.

[02:19:32] So that Hearth panel is used in that way for lifestyle, like a hearth in the home. And it's also used to upgrade cabinets sauna. So a lot of customers are like, "Dang, I already have a cabinet, so I already got a fire infrared. I've already got a wood cabinet. Can I use the on SaunaSpace technology?"

[02:19:54] And the answer is yes. You just buy the Hearth panel and you put it in there and just plug it in. And you can use that instead of the built-in heaters. And what's cool about that is it's lower cost. You don't have to buy the full sauna. You get to use what you already have, and you don't have to deal with EMFs of the built-in regular sauna because you're not turning it on.

[02:20:17] Luke: Oh, that's cool.

[02:20:18] Brian: But you got the cabinet, and if that's your vibe and you want that, you've got that, and you've got the bench. You can have multiple people in there. And the Hearth can hang on a wall or it can just sit on the bench or move around, whatever you want.

[02:20:30] Luke: When I used to do that, dude, in my place in LA, I almost burned myself so many times because it was a tiny little sauna.

[02:20:37] Brian: Yeah, it definitely needs to be a--

[02:20:38] Luke: Cram the four--

[02:20:38] Brian: It needs to be a certain size. Yeah.

[02:20:40] Luke: I was like, "Ah." I was so paranoid that I was going to brush up against it. When you were speaking about one of your customers' kids who gravitated toward the light, something that's always really interesting to me is how our dog is freaking obsessed with your sauna.

[02:20:57] Brian: Oh.

[02:20:58] Luke: Yeah. Oh yeah. If I turn it on, she wants to be by me of course, too, but I've caught her in there multiple times by herself when I'm just warming it up. I'd be like, "Where's Cookie?" Yeah, she's in there just chilling. Just like how animals know to go in the sun. Sometimes they'll let her out in the yard. I'm like, "Where'd she go?" She's just out there on the lawn, just baking in the sun.

[02:21:17] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[02:21:18] Luke: They know. Just like a kid would know this is good for me.

[02:21:23] Brian: Yeah.

[02:21:23] Luke: The biology's going, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want that."

[02:21:26] Brian: Yeah. They are kids. They have less programming than we have. They've less conditioning. So they're more in tune with their right brain.

[02:21:33] Luke: Do you see a lot of people's dogs doing that?

[02:21:35] Brian: Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

[02:21:37] Luke: I thought my dog was super smart and tapped in.

[02:21:40] Brian: Your dog is, and dogs in general.

[02:21:43] Luke: People freak out too because--

[02:21:45] Brian: And cats too.

[02:21:46] Luke: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I've posted photos of her in there and then Karens yell at me. "You're going to hurt the dog. They don't have sweat glands." God bless them. But honestly, do you think the dog is going to stay in there if it doesn't want to be in there? You know what I mean? She knows when it's time to leave.

[02:22:02] Brian: Yeah. More than us.

[02:22:04] Luke: She'll get up, and she is gone.

[02:22:06] Brian: Yeah. Just super popular.

[02:22:07] Luke: She knows her threshold of safety in there.

[02:22:10] Brian: Yeah. And people who have dedicated companion dogs, emotional support dogs or service dogs, absolutely. They bring them in, and they're all doing the sauna together, and it's great for the dog too. Yeah.

[02:22:22] Luke: Epic, dude. Thank you for making something awesome. Thank you for coming out to see me again. I've learned a lot as usual. I do. I learn something every show. But since the topic of light and saunas are both so important to me, this has been really fun.

[02:22:39] Brian: Thank you for having me.

[02:22:40] Luke: To just geek out with someone. And thank you for your ethos too, of just making things handmade and beautiful and long-lasting and probably making less money than you could if you did it another way. But you're much happier knowing that you have that integrity. Man, it feels good.

[02:23:01] Brian: I'm grateful to be here. I appreciate you so much. And I just think it is so cool that you've been using the product so long. You're really an early adopter.

[02:23:11] Luke: I didn't even realize that until I started talking about how long that freaking ball lasted. And I'm like, "Yeah, it's been many, many years now." Because it was definitely before the pandemic when I got the first little-- I think I got this one, the single light, and then I got the four panel, and then eventually I think after I moved here, I got the full sauna. And it's just been--

[02:23:33] Brian: Yeah. And then you got the super sauna.

[02:23:34] Luke: Yeah, yeah. First it was the--

[02:23:36] Brian: Just the one panel. Yeah.

[02:23:37] Luke: Yeah. Which is fine. You don't need eight bulbs, for anyone listening. If you're pricing it out, trust me. No one--

[02:23:45] Brian: Yeah. It's a time savings, but yeah, the classic setup was awesome.

[02:23:51] Luke: When Alyson uses it, she turns on, I think, two bulbs on each one. So there's some lower and some upper, but she never turns on all eight bulbs. Because it has multiple switches. You can turn on two bulbs at a time on each of those panels.

[02:24:07] Brian: Yeah, you can control your intensity.

[02:24:09] Luke: And also the placement. That's cool. When I my head really close to it, I usually turn off the top bulb because I'm sometimes quite close and I don't want to blast the back of my head with the light that quickly.

[02:24:21] Brian: Yeah. And for people who have like extreme heat or light sensitivity, people with MS and things like that, yeah, you can just turn the top one off. You can customize it.

[02:24:35] Luke: Oh, dude, one more thing. And I don't know if I'm imagining this, but over the years my distance vision has gotten a little funky. Started a few years ago. And I've been able to keep it at bay enough where I don't have to get a higher prescription. Is that what you call it? Yeah, prescription.

[02:24:53] Brian: Mm-hmm.

[02:24:54] Luke: Not subscription. I hate wearing glasses. It's super annoying to me. So I'm always working on ways to improve my vision. One thing I've been doing for some time in your sauna is doing the baits method exercises or just yogic exercises where you just exercise your eye bulbs. So I don't look directly into the light, but I'll just pass the time sometimes in there, just doing things that are different than what you do when you're scrolling. I think our eyes start to get entrained to this up and down reading, and I found it's difficult for me to read books because you're reading left to right.

[02:25:30] Brian: Uh-huh.

[02:25:30] Luke: It's weird. I think we're ruining our ability-- maybe it's just me, but ruining my ability to read. Because we're always scrolling up and down, and whatever, blue light exposure, all the things. But when I do that regularly, I have to wear my glasses less.

[02:25:50] Brian: Interesting.

[02:25:50] Luke: Even sometimes doing these podcasts on certain days, where you're sitting, you would be too blurry, and I'd have to wear my glasses. Am I the only one that's getting--

[02:26:00] Brian: No, no, this is in the research.

[02:26:02] Luke: Good results from [Inaudible] vision?

[02:26:05] Brian: There's recent research on getting a very modest dose of near infrared light in the morning, improving eyesight, and also preventing worsening of eyesight.

[02:26:17] Luke: Okay, okay.

[02:26:18] Brian: Some of it's detox. Some of it though is the regeneration that the near infrared light does through the mitochondrial activation. So there's definitely the research there. And also with our customers-- I have many customer stories. One I'm thinking of particular where she said, "When I use the SaunaSpace regularly, I don't need my glasses. But if I travel and leave for a month, all of a sudden I need my reading glasses again."

[02:26:43] Luke: There you go.

[02:26:43] Brian: "And then I go back home, back into my daily SaunaSpace and I don't need them again."

[02:26:49] Luke: Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool.

[02:26:50] Brian: It's a real thing. There's other things. What's interesting about it, if we have a moment, is I've been nearsighted. I think that's how you say it. So I've had glasses since I was eight, 10 years old, or something to see far. And my prescription always got worse, over the years, just worse and worse and worse. And last year I went in and my prescription halved in strength.

[02:27:19] Luke: Wow.

[02:27:20] Brian: And I was like, "Whoa. For the first time ever, it's actually gotten better." And I think of the sauna as a big part of it. I've also added in on top of that the use of pearl powder. I've been consuming--

[02:27:36] Luke: I've heard that. Yeah.

[02:27:37] Brian: And some people put castor oil and pearl powder smeared around their eyes before we go to bed. I've just been putting it in my matcha in the morning, but I've been doing it now for two years, almost every day.

[02:27:48] Luke: I've wondered if that's legit. I've seen people market pearl powder for that, and I'm like, "Eh."

[02:27:55] Brian: There's definitely a relationship between toxicity in the eyes and the ability to see. We have customers whose floaters go away, and their night vision improves. The reading and glasses and stuff like that, all that stuff is improving. And there's definitely a relationship there.

[02:28:12] It's not just a, well, we need to regenerate the eye tissue. It's getting old. There's also a toxin issue that's in there. And so getting this light into your eyes and not avoiding near-- but actually getting near infrared light into your eyes frequently is definitely a powerful thing and is related-- we're seeing in the research and also anecdotally-- to making sure your eyes still work well. When you wear reading glasses, it's just like taking synthetic testosterone or something like that.

[02:28:42] Your body's like, "Oh, I don't need to do anything." And your vision gets worse. So it's interesting that you're saying that because I've been doing that, the pearl powder stuff, and I haven't looked into it much, but there's these glasses that have little pinholes in them.

[02:28:55] Luke: I tried those.

[02:28:56] Brian: And then the eye exercises, you're like, "Ah, is it gimmicky?"

[02:29:01] Luke: The pinhole glasses didn't do anything for me, but the exercises combined with the red light definitely are helpful.

[02:29:09] Brian: Wow. I'm going to totally try that.

[02:29:10] Luke: Yeah.

[02:29:11] Brian: Super cool.

[02:29:12] Luke: Yeah. Because you can feel it. I think the muscles in your eyes just atrophy. And as I said, we're training them to just look up and down all the time. It's like back in the day, hunter-gatherer times, you'd be constantly scanning horizontally on the horizon, looking for food or watching out for predators.

[02:29:36] It's like our peripheral vision, I think, is just shrinking and shrinking because we live in boxes and we just spend our whole life staring at a box called a computer monitor or a phone. One of the exercises I do that I just made up is try to look in my periphery as far as I can. It's actually really hard.

[02:29:57] And then slowly I'll scan from left to right and right to left, but only within this horizontal field. And just do that over and over again. If you do joint mobility routines, you'll feel where there's crunchy spots where you speed up or you get stuck, and I could feel that happening in the eye muscle.

[02:30:17] Brian: Where there are certain spots that are hard to get to?

[02:30:20] Luke: Yeah. Or it'll glitch. It'll jump. You can't have a smooth tracking. It's really interesting. But over time, the more I do it, the more I'm able to have a smooth track a horizontal plane. Yeah. It's in really interesting.

[02:30:33] Brian: Wow. That's fascinating.

[02:30:34] Luke: This is just my own theories. I don't know. For those listening, I could be totally tripping. But I just play around things like that, and if I'm going to be sitting in there anyway, I might as well maximize the therapy and try and help my eyes.

[02:30:48] Brian: Yeah. It's just a great example of how you can stack whatever you want in there. Some people do gua sha and brushing. Some people do breath work. There's these little tools that vibrate your lymph. It's like little wands.

[02:31:03] Luke: Alyson has those. Yeah.

[02:31:04] Brian: That's really cool to do in there because you're already trying to do lymphatic activation, and you just pick your thing. And you can add it in there and do it. It's another way to maximize and stack this very short 15 minutes that you're doing your sauna therapy.

[02:31:21] Luke: Hot damn. Well, thanks for rolling through again, and you guys listening, if you enjoyed this conversation, share it with a friend. Share it with a bunch of friends. We don't advertise here on the podcast because we couldn't afford to even if we wanted to. So the way this gets out is from people like you being inspired and sharing it. So we're always appreciative if you do so. And man, keep up the good work, dude, and I'll see you next time there's something new to talk about.

[02:31:46] Brian: Yeah, absolutely. And if any of your listeners have any questions, on sauna.space with our new website, I finally got a lot of educational material on there that's really cool, the blog. I made these cool animation videos on light therapy and heat therapy to just really make it simple. And there's a lot of great education now on the website that was really never there before in the past.

[02:32:10] Luke: Epic.

[02:32:11] Brian: Yeah, sauna.space.

[02:32:12] Luke: All right, dude.