[00:00:01] Luke: So about 20 years ago or so, just down one of the rabbit holes, I think I was downloading torrents or something at the time and just looking for anything and everything spiritual. And one of the files that I came across was Hemi-Sync from the Monroe Institute, and I read about it a little bit. Oh, okay, synchronizing the hemispheres. That's probably good.

[00:00:23] So I used to listen to those things nonstop, and I didn't even realize there was a whole modality around it and a person and a teaching and a center and all this stuff. And I think I started to discover that after the man had died, Bob Monroe. And up until listening to one of your recent episodes, I didn't even realize that it was still a thing. So I just listened to the tracks, but that's as far as it went. So let's start telling me about your gateway experience.

[00:00:52] Adam: Sure. And hey, if I could be the one that shares some of those messages with the world, then that's why I'm here. So Monroe came into my life, or the Monroe Institute came into my life similar to DMT, which was out of nowhere, and it was 4, 5, 6 times in a very short amount of time that it was just brought into my lap.

[00:01:13] And this was probably about a year and a half into my psychedelic journey. So I was pretty deep into learning about myself, learning about unlocking some potentials, and knowing very clearly that we are way greater than our physical body, which is actually the slogan, which I found out that we have way more than our five senses, and that our five senses can be dialed up to almost infinite levels.

[00:01:35] So that was something that I knew inherently from my experience with psychedelics. But then, like I said, within two or three weeks, Robert Monroe's work, his books, the institute came up, and I looked into it, and it instantly was something that I felt as though this will add another skillset or another tool to my toolbox.

[00:01:53] So I originally went with the intention of comparing their altered states and elevated states of consciousness to what I was able to obtain with DMT and shrooms, and wanted to see ultimately, if there was any similarities. But I also went, not with the negative sense to call bullshit, but I really wanted to see if what they were talking about was possible.

[00:02:15] Because you listen to some of their stories, even Robert Monroe's story and some of their remote viewing stories, and even just some of the gateway process that was funded from years and years with millions of dollars of federal money, and it just seemed a little bit hyperbolic maybe.

[00:02:33] And I wanted to go because I had already had all of these experiences. So I wasn't going there looking for some out-of-body experience or a feeling in my body beyond what they were talking about. I had already experienced that. So I went with the intent of comparing those two, and a lot of similarities.

[00:02:51] I actually wrote a short paper, about 10 bullet points about what I considered were really similar. I'd be more than happy to get into you with that. But if I could, leading up to that, the synchronicities-- and we were just talking about the gentleman who you saw me on the podcast, Michael Philip-- he was my roommate there.

[00:03:08] And that was one of those weird things where I'd been watching a lot of his videos. A mutual fan of ours had mentioned that he was going the same week that I was going. And I just planted the manifestation seat, like, how cool would that be if I could meet up with him, have coffee with him and share some words? Well, I got there and we ended up being roommates. So you can imagine.

[00:03:28] Luke: Oh, you weren't friends before that?

[00:03:29] Adam: No, no, not at all.

[00:03:31] Luke: Oh, no way.

[00:03:31] Adam: So I was a fan of him and his work--

[00:03:33] Luke: Whoa.

[00:03:34] Adam: But he certainly didn't know who I was. And we just hit it off. Not only him and I hit it off, but it's a group of 25 people, and all of us hit it off. The group camaraderie was something that I wasn't really anticipating, but jumping ahead.

[00:03:50] So we show up, find out that he's my roommate, and you're in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia, this absolutely incredible campus. And I was instantly comforted that this was a place of authentic, loving energy. It wasn't bullshit. It wasn't hype. The more I learned about him as an individual and how he got into these experiences, the more and more I felt comfortable.

[00:04:12] But the sum of that week was six days of incredible deep meditations with the Hemi-Sync program or the Hemi-Sync technology, which basically, like you mentioned, it's synchronizing the hemispheres of your brain. Really, all that is a simple way of breaking it down, is each air or each side of your brain takes in a different frequency of sound, and our human brain is only able to go to certain levels.

[00:04:40] And if you put say 100 hertz in one air and 108 hertz in the other air, your brain will recognize that 8 hertz difference, which is typically too much too low for us to recognize. So they were playing with the differences of those ranges that typically human brains can't recognize, but how you get it to impart a specific feeling or energetic ability.

[00:05:03] And I remember the first day I raised my hand and said, "Will I be able to know the difference from Focus 12 to Focus 15 to Focus 21? Or is it just because you're prompting us with words and you're manipulating us to feel like this?" And it was very clear within the first couple of days that no, these frequencies do elicit very specific responses in your body.

[00:05:27] And yeah, it was something that, like anything, you give it the time and energy, and you've learned to play with it. And it opened up and unlocked incredible experiences for me. Not only the ability to meditate deeper, to understand my body at a better level, but the takeaway from that, listening and befriending all of those other 24 other individuals, was, yes, incredible place.

[00:05:57] Yes, the mechanisms do work, but everybody there was taking a week from themselves. They invested in themselves. They felt as though they were worthy of that time, energy, and money. And I don't want to say even without the Hemi-Sync technology that people still would've had a transformative experience, but I really do believe that because people realize that they're worthy, that they're capable, and that they-- the phones were away.

[00:06:24] The computers were away. We got summoned to dinner by the ringing of a bell. And it really was just a disconnection from all of the societal bullshit and all the social media smut and all of the crap that's typically imparted on all of us as individuals.

[00:06:37] And you were able just to walk into the woods and listen to the bees and the birds, and you were able to hug a tree for two hours if you wanted to. And the personal stories from everybody after that was, they were just all so appreciative that they took the time for themselves. And that really was the takeaway from all of it, was know that you're worthy of investing in yourself.

[00:07:01] And there's so much information about their actual Hemi-Sync technologies. I'll probably butcher that if I go over how they're actually doing it, but it's really simple. You're in a dark, quiet space. You've got your headphones on, and you're truly trying to have that brain-heart coherence.

[00:07:19] You're really getting your body to be aligned. And when you're in control of those states, it's amazing how far you can push yourself. And like I said, that slogan is more than your physical body, and you definitely leave that place knowing that. And sounds like your experiences, you figured that out a long time ago.

[00:07:35] I figured that out four or five years ago when I started my psychedelic journey. Most people probably don't know that. And if that could be one of the things that people unlock, that's a step in the right direction that will unlock a lot of other things.

[00:07:50] Luke: Imagine a world where more people were aware of that. You know what I mean? So it's like so much of what we perceive to be dark or evil, I think is just people not knowing that we're eternal. If you look at your one lifetime here, you can't help but be reduced to your base animal nature, to be acquiring, getting, achieving--

[00:08:18] Adam: Hoarding.

[00:08:18] Luke: Versus just being-- yeah. When you look at the power structures, do you guys not realize there's an afterlife where you're going to have to reconcile the shit you did, but more so that there's no need to hoard here because the earth is abundant? There's plenty of everything for everyone.

[00:08:43] Adam: Yeah, resources are not limited. I know how that fallacy started, but it's definitely not true. And one of the corny takeaway lines for most people that go deep into psychedelics is we're all one and we're all part of the same thing. And as corny as it sounds, that's the takeaway that damn near everybody that goes as deep into psychedelics as I do, or that spend a week with the Monroe technology-- you come away knowing that.

[00:09:13] And that doesn't mean you're not an individual. That doesn't mean that you're not special in your own unique way, but to know that us as a human species, we can achieve so much more personally and as a collective group, if we work together and we realize that-- I'm getting goosebumps talking about it because I spent so much of my life looking at people as the other in a way to use them, to manipulate them, to somehow use them for gain, and to turn my life into shit where the last few years it's just, what can I do?

[00:09:46] What can I give? How can I be of service? How can I connect? How can I share love? And the universe has provided in such incredible ways, including me sitting here in Austin at your beautiful home where it gives me the faith to know that this is the way to live, this is the way to share, and there's plenty to go around.

[00:10:06] And whether it be psychedelics, whether it be the Monroe Institute, whether it be a near-death experience, whether it be some tragedy in your life that shakes you out of the current state of just monotonous rat race, whatever that may be really is the message that I'm so passionate about sharing.

[00:10:23] And we spoke before recording about how typically I state-- psychedelics, I don't think, are for everybody. DMT is definitely not for everybody. But whatever you need to do to realize that you're worthy of learning about yourself and taking that time for yourself, that I think will unlock a lot of the same things that some of these psychedelics can unlock.

[00:10:43] And people just somehow need to get that in their head that they're their best asset, but they can also be their worst enemy. And if you can change that where you get out of your own way and you realize how divinely powerful you are and how connected you can be the source into anything you want, life becomes fun.

[00:11:07] Which for somebody like myself that almost took my own life because life was so damn painful, it's a such a beautiful way to be able to talk about it now, about how you can be comfortable in your own skin and radiate goosebumps and love and positive energy. And that's the way to be a human, not the other ways.

[00:11:27] Luke: What were you like before your first psychedelic experience?

[00:11:35] Adam: And I try to give my life in some bullet points because it wasn't just like a random one-off event, but my life really is before psychedelics and after psychedelics. It really is two complete individuals. And part of the reason why I tell my story or I share my background is because I truly had and still have every possible advantage that anybody could ever ask for.

[00:11:57] I have amazing grandparents. I've had amazing great-grandparents. I had everything that I could have ever wanted as a child growing up, the love, the support, the admiration. I had college education, great jobs. I got gifted a large sum of money when I was a teenager. I was able to have multiple jobs that paid extremely well.

[00:12:18] So at 40 years old, on paper I was living the American Dream. I had the three-storey Victorian by the ocean. I was making deep six figures. I had all of the stuff. But at that point, I was still a narcissistic, belligerent, drunk, alcoholic asshole. And I had ruined everything in my life, including multiple long-term relationships.

[00:12:40] And the breakdown of my life started with a knock on my door from a constable giving me a restraining order. So I was with the same woman for seven and a half years, and I want to preface this, and that just doesn't make it any better or easier to even say it, but she accused me of some pretty horrible things of abuse. Not physical abuse.

[00:13:05] So I've never raised my hand to any man or woman. I've never hit anybody in my entire life. But I was verbally abusive. I was spatially abusive with my presence and my energy. And again, at that point I was just drinking really, really heavily. So I was just sitting there doing my work one day, and I got a knock on the door from a guy, handed me a piece of paper saying, "You've got to leave the house now. You have a restraining order against you."

[00:13:27] And I asked him like, "What the fuck is this?" I'm like, "Did you read this?" He goes, "No, I just serve it." I'm like, "This is saying some pretty horrendous things. Do I get to counter this?" And he's like, "Yeah, all in due time, but you need to leave and leave now." I'm like, "What do you mean, leave now?"

[00:13:42] He goes, "You need to leave or you'll be arrested for trespassing." Now this is in my own home that I had lovingly crafted and redone for the last year and a half. And so I asked him like, "Can you do me a solid and give me a couple minutes to grab my shit?" And he's like, "No, you need to leave now."

[00:13:58] And I'm like, "Think about what you just asked me. You just came into my home, told me now that my seven-and-a-half-year relationship is clearly gone and that the home and my home office that I've been building, I just need to leave." I looked at him and I said, "Man to man, human to human, let me grab a trash bag and get some of my stuff right."

[00:14:18] So he gave me a couple of minutes to go through the house, and I grabbed what I thought was the most important things that I would need to continue my business in life, thinking that, well, this will be resolved. I'll be able to come back relatively soon and whatever. It is what it is. That was right at the beginning of COVID.

[00:14:34] All of the non-essential issues in the courts shut down, so that case ended up dragging out for almost over a year. So I was paying the utilities, paying the mortgage on this house that I couldn't live in. I couldn't go to. I couldn't even get my stuff. And there was this back and forth where it was-- yeah, it was a really tough spot.

[00:14:56] And I want to preface it too, where I had been a real estate investor and home inspector. So at that point in my life, I had owned 15 houses. And not that that's a major amount, but the thought of being homeless or not having a home, or not having any place to go, it was just like, how is this even possible?

[00:15:13] But ultimately, I drove to my parents' house at 40 years old. I moved back into my parents' basement after all the stuff that I had been through. But at that point I was still drinking. I was still blaming other people. I was still looking for external solutions to my internal problems.

[00:15:29] And I was still blaming that particular woman, which in hindsight, she did nothing wrong. She did everything she needed to do to protect her and her two daughters. And I would beg for her forgiveness if I ever get the chance to see her and if she would ever have my space again. So there's no animosity. And if anything it sucks that not only I put her, but then subsequently another woman after that into the same bullshit. But I'm getting here.

[00:16:00] Luke: No, it's all good, man. No rush.

[00:16:02] Adam: So move back in with my parents, but I'm still making 200 grand a year. I'm still like, "Whatever. Fuck it. I'll get rich and I'll just keep going on my path. Screw that." Well, I quit one high paying job and moved out into the Cape in the Marthas Vineyard area for an even better job with a new set of life.

[00:16:24] I was over there with a family friend that had an established business, and it was just like, all right, cool. I'm going to go and get my life back in order in a new area. And I had given up on relationships in women. I just figured I'd take a hiatus. So I was building this brotherhood and comradery with the owners of this company. And we were doing really good. Money was coming in; everything was great.

[00:16:47] Long story short, one of the co-owners I found out screwed me 900 bucks in commissions. A very insignificant amount of money, but I just was so hurt and just at the end of my rope from being-- what I perceived of was being wronged and fucked over. I threatened to kill that guy, and it was very serious.

[00:17:08] But we met in the office. I said my case. He heads his case, and he basically looked me dead in the eyes was, "Yeah, I did screw you. I did take that, and what the fuck are you going to do about it?" And I lost it. I was like, "All right, I'm going to rip apart your body."

[00:17:29] Luckily, the two owners of the company were pretty big dudes, and they were able to solve the situation. And it didn't become physical where we couldn't get back at it. But I left there being just devastated where it seemed like everything that I was doing-- and in retrospect, I had to take ownership for it.

[00:17:48] But I was just getting checked with all of these things in my life where it was just like, how could all these things be going wrong? I quit my high-paying job, got this job. Now I don't have this job anymore. I was living in the owner's home in this million-dollar mansion out in the cape.

[00:18:06] I knew I wasn't going to be able to live there anymore because I just threatened to freaking kill the guy. So it was, here I am again homeless, jobless. But at that point, I still had some money in the bank. So that altercation happened on a Sunday night. That Monday morning, I woke up and said, "I'm driving to California to hug a redwood tree." That was my only plan. I grabbed a backpack. I got my car.

[00:18:28] Luke: Pretty solid.

[00:18:28] Adam: I drove 26 hours to--

[00:18:31] Luke: That's a step up.

[00:18:32] Adam: --Kansas City, Missouri. And that was my first stop of about a year and a half journey of just traveling the country back and forth. I think I mentioned I went to 40 different states. I lived out on the coast of Northern California for three weeks.

[00:18:47] I lived out of my car. I just went on this spiritual journey of a reset. And through that journey is when I started getting into psychedelics and DMT and those two things of taking the time for myself, being alone by myself. With the combination of those plant medicines, really unlocked a whole different perspective.

[00:19:12] And that's when I came back and realized that I needed to share what I had found. And that's always the purpose of writing this book, was not to be like I'm some DMT expert or to say that I have all the answers, but I knew that there were a lot of people that could relate to my story that were lost and needed some guidance.

[00:19:33] And I figured that my purpose on life wasn't to make money anymore. It wasn't to do all the material gains of the shit that I was trying to do before. It really was let me try to help people that were in the mental spot that I was in. So that's what I've been doing now for the last three and a half years. So it's been one hell of a journey since.

[00:19:53] Luke: You know what I think is so interesting? And I think when I first-- and I'm sober for a long time, almost three decades. I was an alcoholic and all kinds of other things. It wasn't until I was 20 years sober that I started working intentionally with psychedelics. And it occurred to me that had I found them much earlier, I could have saved myself and many other people a lot of suffering early on.

[00:20:30] So I always find it so fascinating when someone was in a place like you are, and in terms of linear time in such a short period of time, he's able to do so much healing and have such a quantum shift in their understanding. When you tell your story, there's so much accountability and responsibility and honesty in it.

[00:20:59] It probably took me 10 years to get to that, of just like doing sobriety as best I could. I don't know. It's just so incredible for some of us. Of course, as you said, plant medicine, psychedelics aren't appropriate for everyone. But for those that feel called and follow that call, I won't say I'm jealous because I'm not, because I love my own journey and it took what it took.

[00:21:23] But I'm just like, "Oh my God, this guy's three, four years in." And none of us have this whole thing figured out, but to go from where you were, and I'm just getting to so I don't know where you are now, but I get the sense you have your shit together especially compared to where you were at that time in your life.

[00:21:40] And it's just like, wow. It's like time is not the barrier to growth and healing. There's some other governor there, I think that probably has to do with our own limitations. And it's just incredible that God put certain molecules here on the planet and gave some humans ideas of how to put them together that can be so deeply transformative in such a short period of time.

[00:22:06] And the thing that used to really trip me out about that is when I first started working with psychedelics and sobriety, is I would meet people who were hardcore addicts, alcoholics, etc., like I was, and they never went to rehab, never went to 12-step meetings, and just got sober from taking psychedelics. It's like, what?

[00:22:29] It was such a paradigm breaker for me because the lineage that I came from, the model there is complete abstinence from all mind-altering chemicals, which historically, as far as we know, has been the most effective way to do it. If you want to quit drinking, you probably shouldn't do coke.

[00:22:47] It's like you just quit everything, which is what I did for 20 years, and it's just so cool. I just love actually seeing that someone found another way and didn't have to spend years and years chasing their tail.

[00:23:04] Adam: Some people, when they talk about psychedelics, and there may be other reasons or motivations behind it, where mine truly is to try to authentically help people, I think some people do maybe market it or say like, it's this magic pill. Do shrooms or do DMT, and you'll be fixed or solved.

[00:23:21] That is not the case. DMT or any of these psychedelics, if you think they're the magic pill or that you're going to Monroe Institute, that you'll figure it out and you'll be able to remote view, you're going to be let down. But I do think that they can be a catalyst. I think they can have a perspective shift.

[00:23:42] There can be those moments of the epiphany, like, aha. And I mentioned I just had one about my father, which I'm excited to get into as the conversation goes, but it isn't going to be, well, do a session of DMT and your life's going to be fixed.

[00:23:58] This is going to be an ongoing process and journey, and even three and a half years into it-- like I said, I'm just coming back from an incredible ceremonial ritual experience where I unlocked layers of myself and my psyche that I didn't think were there, and I was able to pass something on with my father that I was able to really make a shift.

[00:24:17] But before I got into DMT, and I think this is a really important part of my story getting into it, was that I know I needed help. So I was standing there at one point looking in the mirror. I was 40 pounds overweight. I had bags under my eyes. I had fat hanging off of me. I was miserable, so I had no relationship. I was just like, "What the fuck?"

[00:24:38] Now, this coming from the straight A student, seven, eight years of college, had every advantage, I'd everything on-- everything in my life was given to me with such ease. I literally never struggled my entire life. Everything was handed to me. So how the fuck am I sitting here in this pit of shit, wanting to go off into the woods and end my life?

[00:25:01] And it really was all right, something needs to change. And I knew in my heart that it wasn't about a woman or it wasn't about more money or about more status, about more things. That I needed to somehow figure this shit out on my own.

[00:25:22] I was not interested in pharmaceutical drugs or just numbing it like I had done with alcohol, but let's just use another chemical or another pill like so many people, including many people in my family were doing. That's when, and it still is-- there's a lot of information about the therapeutic value of shrooms and psilocybin mushrooms and other psychedelics.

[00:25:42] And that interested me because I felt as though they were natural. It was organic. It was something that I could slowly dose into. Before I got into DMT for the first time, I was experimenting with shrooms for probably about three months or so. And that was pivotal to, I think, this experience that I had with DMT because with shrooms, you're forced to really do that dark inner shadow work.

[00:26:08] You're really forced to find those cracks in your psyche that only you know were there. And at that time, I was paying a therapist 240 bucks an hour to try to figure out my shit. I had friends and family trying to figure out my shit. And not that I was lying to them, but I was manipulating the story to convince them that I was somehow so intellectually advanced, and you wouldn't understand it.

[00:26:30] My thought, just trying to make it out like I'm the victim. I'm so great. No one will understand me. And finally with shrooms, it just smacked that smirk off my face and was like, no, you are the asshole. You are the douchebag. You are the drunk, belligerent, blah, blah, blah. And it put everything into perspective where I finally had to take ownership of what I had done and what cony rare I was at.

[00:26:53] And again, not the magic pill. It didn't fix everything. If anything, it shined a huge spotlight on the huge pile of shit that I had around me and the hole that I had dug myself in. But the beauty of that was that because of that, I stopped digging the hole deeper. I stopped adding more shit to my life.

[00:27:10] And again, I realized that I needed to have internal solutions to my internal problems. And that another woman, or more money or something on the outside wasn't going to fix it. So I went pretty deep with shrooms. 5, 6, 7, 8 grams was, I think one of the higher doses that I did.

[00:27:28] Luke: That'll do it.

[00:27:29] Adam: Yeah. Hours and hours of crying in the dark and reliving all the past and all of that shit. But I didn't have the epiphany. I didn't have the breakthrough. If anything, I just realized, wow, I've been an asshole to all these people I loved that. I'm responsible for where I'm at. Cool. I guess I'm going to stop banging my head against the wall. But it still was, I had no clue on what to do, and I had really no direction.

[00:27:54] And that's when DMT really changed everything. And similar to Monroe, it had been brought up by The Spirit Molecule book by Rick Strassman, which anybody looking to get into DMT, I would highly recommend that book and the documentary that they made. There were a lot of people on podcasts talking about DMT. It seemed to be brought up into my psyche for a couple of weeks.

[00:28:21] And then a close friend of mine, a brother who truly helped save my life, who will be in my life forever, he knew how much of a dark spot that I was in and knew that I was pretty much at the verge of not being here anymore. And he came to me and let me know that he had access to DMT. That it was mine if I wanted it. That he would give me the safe space to experience it.

[00:28:42] And that on my own time, if I so choose, I could have it. And that got me on the rabbit hole of doing research for a couple of months where I didn't just say, "Yeah, cool, let's go do it." I really felt as though I wanted to understand it. I wanted to build the respect and reverence. I understood how much of a powerful molecule this was, and I didn't want to just go into it haphazardly.

[00:29:02] So after a couple of months of research, I felt as though I was ready for this. And we set aside a day, and that was the whole intention, was to push it to wherever I needed to push it. And that's the day that I say saved my life. That's the day that I had that epiphany. That in a split second, my perspective shift on everything.

[00:29:22] And it was from that day forward that I'm a different man, a new man. Literally every day is a second blessing. And again, I've still a lot of the same shit and the same problems that I need to work out of. But it was that perspective shift, and I'm happy to explain that more. But yeah, that was the day that my life changed.

[00:29:48] Luke: So many directions I could go there. One thing that's been interesting in my experience in this realm is so many of the spiritual teachers and teachings that I'd studied and applied for so many years and made some progress with, but again, it was slow progress-- the initial sobriety was like instantaneous, just pure grace.

[00:30:14] But then a lot of struggling, but just going on meditation retreats, going to India, reading every book, listening to thousands and thousands of hours of spiritual teachers. When I started working with psychedelics, and to this day, it was so reaffirming because the models that I had found and applied to my life made for a great foundation in those experiences.

[00:30:43] So I'm in the middle of a deep experience of, say, 5-MeO-DMT. And I'm like, "You're not aware of anything in the depth of that." But as I would start to reemerge, it's like I go, "Oh, it's able, I don't know, to see the mind in a way, or to see the personification of ego in a way, like concepts that I had and understood, that had proven to be true and useful."

[00:31:08] But having the direct subjective experience of so many of those different states of consciousness, I think has made all of the experiences so much more tangible for me because I had a framework for life, like what works and what doesn't after 20 years of working on myself. So the question is-- how do I phrase this without it taking 20 minutes?

[00:31:34] So because I had that foundation and then started having these really profound experiences and changes like you're describing, I'm just like, "Walk out. I'm a different person." And just understanding the importance of integration. I naively thought for some time that anyone that was having the experiences I was having was also awakening and growing in the ways that I was.

[00:31:58] And then came to find that there are many people in the medicine space that are out of integrity, unconscious, not trustworthy, and even dangerous, which was really hard for me to understand because, as you said, when you first started working with mushrooms, it's like there's nowhere to hide. You see your shit. How can you not face it?

[00:32:18] And I chalked that up to just being, and this isn't like, oh, I'm better or something. I still have my shit that I'm working on like the next guy. But I think sometimes when people get into psychedelics and they don't have a model for life or certain principles or universal laws of which they are aware and have made some effort to live by, that one can have maybe an enlightening or peak experience and hear the word integration, but not necessarily change as a result of that experience because there's no rule book to follow.

[00:32:54] So my question is, obviously you've changed immensely in a short period of time. What has been supportive in terms of you being able to contextualize these experiences? You've had hundreds of DMT journeys, which I literally can't even fathom. How do you even go out in the world and deal?

[00:33:15] Adam: Worry about the price of ham or about politics.

[00:33:17] Luke: Right, right.

[00:33:18] Adam: Yeah.

[00:33:18] Luke: So it's a long way of asking a very simple question. Have there been spiritual teachings or principles or codes or things like that that have helped you to contextualize and to apply what you're learning in these spaces?

[00:33:34] Adam: Yes. And that's where just the basic one-on-one about intention and set and setting. So what is your intention when you're going into these spaces? And I think that goes along with saying how it's not a magic pill. And I get asked this often. Could people use DMT for nefarious reasons?

[00:33:51] Could you increase your senses and sensitivity in a way that could do harm? And the true answer is ultimately, I think, yes. If your intention is, can I have a way to manipulate or to make more money or to make-- could you use DMT necessarily or psychedelics for unsavory reasons? Yes.

[00:34:18] So what I'm trying to say is that what your intention is behind it and why you're getting into these plant-based medicines, I think going to be a big part of it. Now, I hope, and this is my goal, is that people don't have to be as deep and as depressed and as anxious and as suicidal as I was, where my goal was to save my life.

[00:34:38] My goal was, with that, if I don't get an answer after this session, I'm walking off into the woods and not coming back. So that was my intention, was truly I need to save my life. So I think that's how I was able to achieve the level of transformation that I have.

[00:34:59] But also I agree with what you're saying. Prior to that, and I still do, I read thousands and thousands of books. I studied all of the old, ancient, esoteric teachings and wisdoms. I've tried to read as much about spirituality and religion. This is all prior to this.

[00:35:14] In college I was an entomologist, so I studied insects for almost eight years. So I had a scientifically inclined mind to be able to put all these things together. And I do think there's a synergistic effect where it's not one plus one equals two. It really is one plus one equals whatever, name a number.

[00:35:31] And these things do compound. And if your intention is to go to a concert and trip balls and go have unprotected sex and jam out to music, then that's probably what will happen. And that will be your intention. And that's not right or wrong, but my intention, and I think what I'm focusing on when it comes to psychedelics is mental health awareness.

[00:35:54] Letting people know of their value and their own worthiness. And that was what I was trying to get out of psychedelics. So long-winded answer to, yes, things do compound. I think you have to have the right intention. And since then, it's been a continued process.

[00:36:16] As much as I said that day changed my life, it's not changed my life and I'm fixed. Everything's good. It's, now I at least know what direction to go in. Now I at least know where I'm aligned and where I'm not. And I hope that this journey will never end. I don't want some end point.

[00:36:32] I don't want some level of enlightenment where I'm like, "Oh, I'm good." I love the journey. I love the peeling back of layers. I love the connection. I love the rawness, the conversations and feelings like this, that letting people into your space allows. And it's a process. And I appreciate what you're saying, and I take it as a compliment.

[00:36:58] I know I've had an incredible transformation over a relatively short amount of time, but the truth is I put work in every day and that I give thanks and gratitude every day. And every day I start my days with a intentional appreciation of who I am, what I'm connected to, and what my desire is for that day.

[00:37:16] And it's not to make more money or make shit or acquire material things. It's, if I can learn a little bit more about myself every day, that's my goal. If I can share love and light to just one person, that's my goal. If I can laugh, cry, and hug somebody each day, that's my goal. And now, several years into it, talking about three and a half years, I've racked now a thousand plus days of doing that every day.

[00:37:45] So how do you not be a different person? How do you not just want more and more of that? Because it feels so good. And that's, I think, the goal, is just to get off the path of self-destruction, get off the path of self-limitation, get off the path of giving a shit what other people think about you or what your status is, and realizing that there's a path of authenticity that will lead to genuine happiness and contentment.

[00:38:14] And that doesn't mean an easy life. That just means being comfortable in your own skin where you don't want to jump off a cliff. And I think there's a large percentage of people in the United States as well as around the world that they're leaning more towards anxiety to take the leap as opposed to go meditate in the woods for several hours.

[00:38:32] And as soon as people can realize that there's that inner peace available, then it's people like you, like me, your wife, like my girlfriend, like my inner circle of friends that it's just like, yeah, this is the message that we want to share. And becomes pretty easy to share.

[00:38:49] Luke: Tell me about your relationship with alcohol prior.

[00:38:53] Adam: Horrible. So I started drinking at 12. Drank all through middle school, all through high school. Every time I got in my car, I was drinking and driving. Literally the day I got my license, I was drinking and driving. There was not a day of my life that I didn't drink and drink heavily.

[00:39:14] And it was a lot of bourbon, double IPAs, heavy, heavy stuff. And part of it was, that's what I grew up in. And again, over this couple of last couple days, I've had such an appreciation and love and no judgment anymore. No, like, how could you? Pointing at him like what an asshole.

[00:39:35] But he and his father and his sister and just generations of alcohol in our family where it was just the normal thing. So I mentioned I started drinking and driving when I got my license. As a kid, there was not one road trip that there wasn't an open container. If anything, we'd have to stop at the liquor store to get road sodas or to get drinks for there. And I remember--

[00:39:56] Luke: For road sodas?

[00:39:58] Adam: Yes, [Inaudible]. That's what my dad called them. That's what we all called them.

[00:40:01] Luke: I'm going to take that. That's a good one.

[00:40:04] Adam: The woman that ended up getting that restraining order against me, I remember when we first started dating. We went up to New Hampshire once, and I just drank the whole way up, because again, every time I went to New Hampshire, that's what you do. You drink all the way up.

[00:40:16] And then the second trip, she asked me. She's like, "Do you mind not drinking and driving? We've got my daughters in the car." She was truly the first person to ever say, "Not only do you know that this is illegal, you could lose your license. It's dangerous. But that this isn't the normal way to take a road trip."

[00:40:34] And literally my entire life, I just thought, that's what you do. You get hammered on the way up, and then as soon as you land, you get the liquor store and fill your hotel room with booze. That's what I had grown up with. In high school, that's all we did, was drink and smoke. College, the same thing.

[00:40:51] And then adult life, yeah, that was an every day. Now, it was easy for me to just brush it off because I was so successful in what people would judge people on. So I'd straight A's in school, straight A in college, high-paying jobs, beautiful house, beautiful women, the cars, the vacations. So it was, who the hell are you to judge me?

[00:41:15] I clearly can drink bourbon in the morning. I can have beers at my lunch. And it was, yeah, up until 40 years old-- so I'm coming on five years. It'll be New Year's Eve. And I remember I had-- actually that was a good flash. Being hung over. So January 1st on my parents' floor, in the fetal position, puking and shitting myself.

[00:41:44] It was a beautiful day, and it was just like, everybody else is enjoying the new year and this new beginning, and here I am in this crumpled mess with all this shit. And it was that day that I just decided no more. Honestly, I'll never have another drink. I haven't had one in five years.

[00:42:02] If I end up in Asia somewhere and some Samurai offers me wine that is grandfather-made that's 4,000 years old, I'll take a sip of it. So I don't want to say I'll never have because it's the devil. But yeah, it was that morning I woke up and I just decided this is not serving me well, and I don't ever want to wake up hung over again.

[00:42:22] And that was really the main thing. I love the feeling of booze. I love the taste of booze. I still love the smell of it. I just was so sick of waking up at 50%, 60%, knowing every day, am I going to, I don't want to say shit my pants like I shit my pants all the time. But to know that you are just gross and your stomach isn't eating the food, and it isn't doing-- and it's like every day it was just feeling awful.

[00:42:49] And now coming on, five years sober, to know that this is how you can feel at 100% and not drag down and not full of shit. Yeah, I have no desire to go back if I could. I'm glad you asked what's your relationship with alcohol? Because alcohol is not the problem.

[00:43:11] Money and success aren't the problem. It was my relationship to it. I know several people in my life that enjoy alcohol very responsibly, and it adds to their lives. It adds socially. It's something that at the end of the week, they'll have a beer, a glass of champagne. They'll use it to celebrate.

[00:43:26] There's no intention on getting drunk or cocked or being-- that's not it. So it's what's your relationship to everything. And same thing with DMT or shrooms. I think people could have an unhealthy relationship with both of those if you're using it in the wrong way. So alcohol isn't necessarily bad or was the issue.

[00:43:49] It really was my relationship to it. And I'm putting that into perspective too because I don't want to come off as judgy or like I'm better than because, if you're a good, solid person and at the end of the week you're having a beer or two, or a bottle of wine with dinner, by all means enjoy it.

[00:44:09] And if you're kissing your kids goodnight and having a good conversation with your loved ones afterwards, then fine. That wasn't me. I was the asshole when I was drunk.

[00:44:20] Luke: Yeah. Yeah, me too. It is. For me, everything is about relationship. Even being in this-- well, it's not gray to me, but it could be perceived as gray. My relationship with different substances as someone who had a lot of problems with substances early on is like, it's all about relationship.

[00:44:42] It's about boundaries. It's like I'm in a middle of a circle and every available mind altering chemical exists somewhere in that spectrum. Some are so far out that I think I could say I'm never going to do that as long as I'm breathing, and some are somewhere in the middle. Exercise caution. Some feel completely safe. I don't think I could ever get addicted to DMT.

[00:45:13] Adam: No. I don't think anybody can. And actually I've had quite a few people say, "Well, it sounds like you just quit alcohol and now you're addicted to DMT. You said you've done it hundreds of times." There's no way, in my opinion, you could get addicted to DMT. It is terrifying every time. It never becomes easy.

[00:45:30] You become a little bit more familiar with the sensations, but it is not something that you're doing necessarily for fun. And not that I need to qualify or even give a pushback, and now doing this for like three and a half years, to say hundreds of times, I equate that to-- and I'm not necessarily religious, but for the person that is, if they're going to church once or twice a week, and you're doing that once a week for three and a half years, you just went to church 150 times, 200 times.

[00:45:59] So are you addicted to church or is it-- if you've got the epiphany moment and you've got the answer, why do you have to keep going back? All right. If you found comfort in Christ or religion or in praying and meditation, why are you going every once a week? Didn't you get your lesson?

[00:46:17] And I think the same thing applies, is it's not a one and done thing. It's not like, oh yeah, I've got Christ consciousness in me now, and now I don't have to go to church. If that's where you go to vibrate properly, to connect, to resonate with your own internal self, then that that's how I'm using it.

[00:46:35] So it's not just, yeah, let's blast away and go party and do DMT. It's really with a deep, deep reverence and a spiritual intent. Now, those intentions do change. I have a chapter in my book about transcendental sex, art, and science. There are times when I'm using DMT for intimacy to make orgasms a static, to prolong sex, to do all these things.

[00:46:58] I do use it creatively for art to expand my visions. So it doesn't always have to be deep in a therapeutic work and always have to be heavy, but it has to be, in my opinion, with the respect of what that molecule does and how honored personally I am to have access to it.

[00:47:17] And there's recipes in that book. They're not my personal recipes. They're available online. But I feel as though, whatever, 50 years ago or even before the Internet, people didn't have this information available. This was the shaman from 2,000 years ago that people came all around the world to see where now it's like, no, you can make this in your own room, in your own house, in a safe way and experience what I think humans were meant to experience, which is a connection to self, which is way beyond what typically our society allows.

[00:47:55] Luke: The book to which he's referring is right here, Butler's DMT Field Guide. And we're going to put that in the show notes at lukestorey.com/butler. When I was reading your guide, as I was telling you earlier, it's rare that I have a chance to read someone's full book by the time they're sitting here because it's the day before and I go, "Shit, I haven't read their book."

[00:48:15] Get a lot of books in the mail. This one I actually did read all the way through, and I like the field guide aspect of it. It was incredible to sit here and be like, "Wait, I could get on the Internet right now and just buy the raw materials and just make this myself?" which I probably won't because I don't trust my chemistry skills that much.

[00:48:39] But I just thought, man, how many people are going to get your book and change their lives dramatically as a result? It's just crazy the time we live in, to your point. There's certainly a place for facilitators and shamans and all of those things, but the accessibility of it and the time in which we live now is really interesting and exciting to me.

[00:49:06] Adam: Yeah. And I think thousands of years ago it was probably more accessible, and for whatever happened, the human society over the last-- humans have always been ugly and shitty towards one another, but I feel like the last couple 100 years really have been getting humans so far away from their innate natural vibrations of love and light, and connection, and sympathy, and empathy, all of those things.

[00:49:34] Society almost forces you to not feel those emotions. And if anything, especially in-- there's so many topics I want to work in here, but talking about masculine and feminine integration, and understanding both aspects of it, society frowns upon guys being emotional or being loving and caring and talking about the things that we talk about.

[00:49:55] It's all about bravado and strength and [Inaudible], and it's like, man, that's not the message that is going to help society out. And I think people really now are waking up to realizing that this status quo is not sustainable. Something needs to give. The suicide rate, the depression rate, the homelessness rate, the human society right now is hurting, and something needs to switch and change.

[00:50:27] And I personally think that that's-- we're seeing it. And I don't know if it's going to be in five years, 10 years, or 100 years, or 1,000 years. I still think that's a blink of the eye. If we can somehow change the course of how we interact with one another, that's what we have to do.

[00:50:41] And I talk about the next step of human evolution and how we can go that path. And I think we either go that path as a group or there's some weird speciation event where we separate. Because the people that are about love and light and connection and hugs and kisses, all we want to do is help one another. The other people, just as a, like, what the fuck?

[00:51:08] I flew in and out of Vegas, so I was in Vegas last night, and just energy's way different from what I've been doing for most of the week. But they have a memorial from the concert shooting that happened a few years ago. and I hadn't thought about that in-- I knew when it happened.

[00:51:25] But they have this incredible memorial where they have pictures and handwritten notes, and all the people that had lost their lives there, they have their own little space, and it has all about their lives and all these amazing pictures. There's 91 people that I believe lost their life on that day.

[00:51:43] And I spent an hour and a half in that park just crying and stopping almost at everyone and recognizing them and appreciating them and feeling like, oh, this young kid must have been awesome. That lady was such an amazing teacher, you can tell. And what a great grandmother this one was. And that first responder lost his life, trying to help people.

[00:52:02] And I just had this amazing connection with all of these strangers that I didn't know, and I just thought, man, if they were alive, I'd love to have lunch with every one of them. But then there's some sick fuck who is sitting there with a gun being like, "Oh, I'm just going to kill all these strangers."

[00:52:16] And it's like, where is that change? Or what makes that person so much different from the people that feel like you and I do? And there's not an easy answer to that, but it seems like, and I don't want to say like that guy's lost, or people that have those feelings are lost in that they're not worthy of our love and attention. Probably just the opposite.

[00:52:39] Those are the people that need the hugs. Those are the people to say, "Hey, man. Take a moment. You don't have to do this." But it's tough to go through this world knowing that, yes, I want to preach love and light, and man, I just want to go around sharing this, but especially as I'm walking around in Vegas, I need to be able to protect myself and know that there are pieces of shit out there like that and that I need to protect myself and my loved ones around like that too.

[00:53:04] So I wish that that could just be taken off the board where you don't have to worry about people that are that lost that they want to hurt people like that. But yeah, it's something that I hope more conversations like this will shed light on mental health illness and that whole desire to hurt people.

[00:53:29] Because I can say, and I did want to take my life, before that, I felt as though, when I go, I'm going to fucking take the world with me too. So I had those same types of feelings, like, you know what? I'm going to blow up this whole fucking place. So I don't want to say that I'm immune to having those feelings, or like, how could he? I did until I got the hugs and the love that I needed. And it's like, that's what we need to do, is give those people that.

[00:53:54] Luke: For people that are listening or watching and have maybe heard the term DMT but don't know what it is, how people take it, what it's like, and I respect the fact that you said you're not an expert and trying to be the world spokesman on DMT, but I think there is subject matter expertise. So I'm not talking about the molecules, not the sciencey version of it, but just let's start at base level for people.

[00:54:26] Some people are aware that DMT is the active ingredient in Ayahuasca, for example, but there are many sources from which it's derived, many different ways you can use it. So give us the 101 on DMT and then I want to get into some of the far out shit that happens.

[00:54:44] Adam: I appreciate that question because when I first started doing it, my sister, who I have a great relationship with, she's like, "Rick, you're doing meth? What do you mean dimethyl--" so DMT stands for dimethyl tryptamine. So even just hearing that, she couldn't put two together that this is a plant-based molecule.

[00:55:00] It's endogenous. It's produced in our own body. So I appreciate that because I think it's important for people to understand that this is not some harsh chemical or some synthetic drug. So DMT stands for dimethyl tryptamine. It's a molecule that, my understanding, is in thousands and thousands of plants.

[00:55:19] They seem to find it more often than not finding it. It's produced in us, our own bodies as well as all mammals. And it's a simple derivation of molecules like serotonin that are in our own brain. And what I found was that it's so easy to metabolize and it's so easy to take into your body because it is natural and because we do produce it, that there really isn't a scary feeling about it.

[00:55:51] There isn't a sensation of like you're being poisoned or that there's a chemical to it. It really just felt as though I was getting a nice dose of something that was natural. So DMT typically comes in multiple forms. So you hear about ayahuasca quite a bit. DMT is specifically one plant because it is an actual recipe from south America where it's one plant and then one root.

[00:56:20] And one has the DMT and the other one has what's called an MAOI, which is a monoamine oxidized inhibitor. So that allows your body to not metabolize it and break it down easy. So that way you're having that four or five, six, seven, eight-hour trip potentially.

[00:56:34] But ayahuasca, when you're drinking it, and in my book I mentioned DMT brew because you can extract DMT from, again, thousands of plants and they're a bunch of m MAOIs. So you can use turmeric, black pepper. You can get just concentrates of MAOI. So you can make basically an ayahuasca-like drink.

[00:56:53] I've had great value with doing ayahuasca and those types of drinks, but when I talk about doing DMT, hundreds of times, that's smoking it. And that's in the crystal form. And the beauty of that is that the experience only lasts seven, eight minutes. So you're going into the most deepest of psychedelic trips and then coming back to full lucidity. There's no hangover. You don't need a day to recoup.

[00:57:22] You don't need to go across the country to spend three days in a tent somewhere. You're really able to have those deep lessons and integrate it. And that's what I think-- one of the big benefits that I had that first day, because I mentioned in the book too, that I did about 50 hits that first day.

[00:57:39] And I know some people are going to be like, "No fucking way. That's bullshit." Because typically two or three hits and you're good. But I did seven, eight sessions, and each session was multiple hits, and towards the end I was pushing it at five-plus hits. That's where I felt as though I got, whatever, five, 10 years of therapy in a day.

[00:57:57] I was able to put myself into such extreme levels of elevated cognitive ability and then come back and integrate it. And that, I think, one of the best attributes of DMT, is that it's something that can be used and integrated in a short amount of time. Now there's a time and a place for the long 13-hour session that you said you had.

[00:58:19] I just came from a multi-day session a week ago. There's a time and a place for that. But for most people to be able to have access to a psychedelic compound as powerful and as natural as this is, and to be able to use it on an afternoon and still cook dinner for your kids that night is amazingly powerful.

[00:58:41] And you mentioned about being able to just get the ingredients online. The most common plant that most people extract DMT from is called Mimosa hostilis. And it's this beautiful purplish dock root that they use for natural closed dyes. So that's the get around, is you can have it legally shipped in the US, and you can buy Mimosa hostilis because it's useful as an organic natural plant dye.

[00:59:12] And then all the other ingredients are simple stuff that you can get at any store. So it really is just that simple. Now, disclaimer, like we started, I don't think psychedelics are for everybody. DMT is not for everybody. I'm not suggesting that everybody goes and extracts their own DMT.

[00:59:28] However, if it is a calling to you and that is something that feels as though could help you, what I like about it is that you're not going to some shady drug dealer. You're not going out and trying to have some battering or some exchange of money for something.

[00:59:45] You don't know the intention in it. I really enjoy the process of extracting it. I set aside an entire day of meditation and prayer and imparting energy into it, and you become one with the plant, with the medicine. You're with it truly from bark all the way to crystal. You know the whole process.

[01:00:05] And I think that goes a long way in the intention of why somebody would do it, way different from whatever, just getting a bump off the street from some random guy. If you're sitting there dedicating a day to making your own DMT, my guess is that you're probably doing it for wholesome and right reasons.

[01:00:25] But that is something that, yeah, it's available. It's accessible. It's plant-based. And as we talk about this book, and I appreciate that-- we appreciate that it's a field guide with short, easily digestible chapters. The two names I would recommend if people really want to get a little bit deeper-- Dr. Rick Strassman is definitely the guy that has the most comprehensive book as far as the breakdown of what it is chemically.

[01:00:55] And it goes over his study that he did in the '90s, which really opened up the doors to I think people studying it. And then there's another gentleman, Andrew Gallimore, who basically dedicated his academic life to really getting into the molecule itself, how your brain interacts with it.

[01:01:11] Those would be the two people that I would go to for more of academic baseline for. But really, it's something that you need to experience, and I think once you do, you'll understand the power of it. If I could, one asterisk, I mentioned the word endogenous. That's a big, big aspect of DMT and why I was attracted to it as well.

[01:01:32] That just means that it's produced naturally in your own body and you really can, through breathwork, through deep meditation, induce your own DMT. And I've done it before where maybe not a full-on spinning [Inaudible] and the full-blown breakthrough trip. But man, that endogenous DMT-- when you're in that zone and you can taste it and you've got this nasal drip and there's this nasal cavity sensation, and it's a very distinct taste and feeling-- it's so beautiful to know that you can put yourself in that blissed-out state.

[01:02:04] And I put myself in that endogenous DMT state all the time, and it's awesome. In the woods meditating, intimate with your loved one as you're getting ready to blast off, to get into that space where your body is just humming naturally is beautiful. And you know that you have that power anytime you want.

[01:02:26] So it's a two-fold. To try it for the first time exogenously when you're smoking it, you realize, wow, this is what my body feels like without the veil and full potential. But then as soon as you realize that you can get there by your own supply, that's a very, very powerful thing to realize that you don't need an outside sauce. It's all right there in you.

[01:02:46] Luke: When it comes to making the brew and using the other inhibitors, is there a brew that doesn't include so much nausea?

[01:02:58] Adam: Yeah. So that, I think, is the ultimate goal. I don't think every time needs to be this purging, shitting your pants, puking 10-hour session. And maybe similar to like drinking alcohol. So if you drank a whole bottle of whiskey, you're going to be pretty zonked out. If you take a shot or two, you'll be fine.

[01:03:18] And each person is going to be really individual to what their tolerance is, whether it be weight, whether it be what their diet is. Did they just eat? Did they do any preparation beforehand? I'd like to think that it's a personal thing where, find out what works for you, find out what dosage works for you.

[01:03:36] Personally, my best experiences with DMT brew, and I say it like that because again, if you're saying ayahuasca, that really should be two specific ingredients, which is the Chacruna leaf and the bastaria caapi plant, which is the vine. I found really good-- where you're brewing three or four different plants with DMT, and then you're adding three or four different MAOIs, and then you're adding some ashwagandha, or you're adding peppermint for flavor, or you're adding a little bit of honey.

[01:04:03] And I go over that in my book about the recipes where I think you should play with it. There isn't just some set rule, like, oh, you have to have 500 grams to this and then two grams to that. And then, to your point, there can be a large variation of strengths of the DMT, the MAOI, how long it would last.

[01:04:20] When I was on one of my road trip, and this was before my father and I had a falling out, which now again, I can't wait to get back to to finish it up. But we took a road trip to Kansas City, and if I was driving, he'd be in the passenger seat drinking his beers. But if he was driving, I'd be drinking ayahuasca and coffee.

[01:04:39] So I'd have a 50-50 mix of ayahuasca and coffee, well, DMT brewing coffee, and we were driving across the country. So the intent wasn't full blast. I definitely didn't want to be puking in the truck. But it was just, yeah, sip on this concoction that you made, and you're going to feel a nice elevated state.

[01:04:58] But that was the intention. So again, with anything, what's your plan? If you're looking for a full blast off and you've got the weekend set aside and you really want to go deep, then yeah, do a deep concentration of it and drink a lot of it. If you're just looking for, again, a different intention of just mellowing out, it can be used for a lot of different reasons.

[01:05:19] And I think that has to be what people play with personally. And even, with marijuana, I smoke pretty much every day, all day. So for me, I could smoke a half ounce and be fine and not really be too messed up where if somebody took one hit-- or even right now, if I took half a sip or half a beer, I'd probably be pretty intoxicated.

[01:05:41] Where it's about tolerance level. It's about building it up. And I encourage people to play with that. And both recipes are very simple. To extract the crystals, it's a couple of more steps, and there are some ingredients in it that need a little bit of caution, but it's very simple and very easy.

[01:06:00] But the brews of the ayahuasca are as simple as just boiling water and making a tea batch. With the ayahuasca, it's putting the leaves in and putting the bark in, and you let it boil for several hours. You keep boiling it down, and that's it. There's really no fancy chemistry or anything beyond other than just making a tea.

[01:06:18] And so, again, if that is accessible, why is it shunned or people don't know about it? And that's part of what I'm trying to share, is that, no, if you want that drink, literally, you can order the product, have it shipped your house, and next week you could be making your own brew.

[01:06:32] It's that easy. And you don't have to spend $3,000 to go to another country for weeks where you're in a tent with mosquitoes and you're whatever, shitting out a hole in the ground. You can do it in the comfort of your own home, under your own pillows and sheets, in your own bathroom, with your loved one holding your hand. Which to me, I think is more conducive for therapy and self-help than going to some-- and I've never been to a retreat in South America or anything like that.

[01:06:58] I've never been to an ayahuasca place, so I don't want to just broad category say that they're all the same. But I've heard some characteristics of several of them that that would be the last place I would want to be doing psychedelics.

[01:07:10] So I think this would be the potential opportunity for people that that wouldn't be the option. And it could even be a physical limitation. Young, able guys like us, yeah, whatever. We'll go into the jungle and it is what it is. Would I want my 65-year-old mom out in the middle of the jungle?

[01:07:28] Maybe not. But again, here at your house, it'd be, sure. Come on, mom. And I think that's where this allows more accessible to people. And you mentioned your background and history about drug use and selling and things like that. And my history of being 12, 13 and have access to all of that, I and probably you and most people in that group, very easy for me to find damn near anything.

[01:07:54] If I want shrooms, you can get shrooms. There are a lot of people that don't have social circles like that, whether that be the librarian or the oil work worker who's out in the middle of nowhere or whatever, where they don't have that easy connection.

[01:08:08] And that's why I wanted to let people know too, is that for the people that don't have those social circles or don't feel comfortable walking on the streets and just asking people, you can be the lone wolf or you can be the person that just likes to be alone. And again, you don't have to put yourself out there in an awkward or unsafe situation. You can make this part of your ritual and your process. Yeah.

[01:08:33] Luke: I asked the question about the physical toll of ayahuasca because I see the point in that too. I'll just honor the tradition from where that came. One time I made myself throw up because I just couldn't stand anymore. But ayahuasca for me has always been just feeling very sick.

[01:09:02] And it's like, ah, I'm just trusting the process. And that there's medicine in that too, just however you're purging. But in the last few, it was harder for me to reconcile just the physical toll and the discomfort and just the lack of sleep. It was just hard on my body. I'm 55. That might have something to do with it.

[01:09:28] And so in many of those experiences I've thought, man, if I could have this experience without having to put so much energy into maintaining the body, it's like I'll be in a really beautiful moment just having a life-changing realization or feeling the presence of God, and I'm lying on my right side. It's like I'm spending an hour just figuring out if I can switch to my left side if it's going to be better. Just so much energy--

[01:09:51] Adam: Or do I go to the bathroom? Should I shit now?

[01:09:53] Luke: Exactly. All that. And again, I totally honor because the first, I don't know, probably 12 or so times I sat with ayahuasca was in very traditional ceremonial settings. So so much magic going on in that. But then after some time, I don't feel drawn to that medicine just because it's like the physical toll is just so rough.

[01:10:18] But there's been so much healing and awakening and so many benefits to those experiences that I kept going back for a period of time over the course of a few years just because it just changed my life so dramatically. But the last one-- I never thought I'd be this guy. The last time, that was a couple of years ago, I said to my wife, actually, when we were going back to our room after a really brutal night, I was like, "Don't let me forget this tomorrow, and I fucking mean it, I am never ever drinking ayahuasca again. I'm done."

[01:10:58] And I don't know that I would hold to that necessarily now, but it was one of these-- that's the thing. It's like also trusting in the mystery of the medicine was a huge lesson for me, is that I drank quite a lot because I've had experiences with ayahuasca where I drink the normal dose and nothing perceivable happens.

[01:11:17] And I'm just like, "God, I spent some money to come here, took time out of my schedule." It's like, let's do the thing. And that particular night I just got so, so sick, man, just drenched in sweat, pretty close to like asking someone to call 911. I thought something was seriously wrong.

[01:11:39] And then it's a whole long story that we don't need to tell, but basically it's just like one of the most brutal experiences of my life. I was just so physically uncomfortable and in so much pain. So I wrote it off. The next day it took three different visits from facilitators to get me out of my room to go drink some Wachuma, which seemed like the worst possible idea.

[01:12:02] Eventually I was just like, "I can't." The suffering was so hardcore. I was just like, "All right, it couldn't get any worse than this." I drank some Wachuma and came back in my body and all was well. But what was interesting about that was it took me, I don't know, maybe I didn't realize it till a few weeks or a couple of months later, I'd been having vertigo. Just getting more frequent for a couple of years, maybe two years or so, where I just like felt swimmy in my head and dizzy, losing my balance.

[01:12:35] It was really weird. No one could figure out what it was. And after that brutal night where nothing happened, I never had vertigo once ever again to this day, knock on wood. So it's like I respect the intelligence of the medicine and how consciousness works through it, and even when I'm not aware of the healing that's taking place, it seems like the medicine's doing things at least that night in my body that I could never really understand and probably never will understand.

[01:13:07] But something shifted. There was some detox or some healing. So I'm very grateful for that. But if you would've told me, "Hey, we can make your vertigo go away. This is what it's going to feel like for eight hours." I would've said, "I'll keep the vertigo."

[01:13:20] It was just so brutal. So in the DMT space, I'm like, "Ooh, there's something so special there." And I've had so many profound experiences, but the physical toll is the thing that keeps me away from it. So I think it's really exciting. Obviously smoking it, smoking the crystals, other brews that maybe aren't so brutal.

[01:13:46] And just thinking too, you were talking about just older people and people that don't have the physical vitality. There's so many people that couldn't handle those really rough nights on ayahuasca but could still use the emotional and spiritual healing, right?

[01:13:59] Adam: Yes. And I'm just picturing, even at a lesser dose, to be surrounded with loving intention, to be in a setting where it's to help yourself and to know yourself, all of those things are going to compound. So maybe the ayahuasca isn't the strength of 10X. It's only 5X, but you're adding those other X's to make it 10X.

[01:14:20] But the sound healing, the vibration, the songs, the incense, the smell, there are ways, I think, that can be extreme therapeutic value from doing lower doses. And maybe similar to-- more people may be more familiar with shrooms. There's a time and a place for 10 grams.

[01:14:41] Just a couple of weeks ago, it was 6.1 grams. I thought that's a massive amount. But I set aside the day. I knew that it was a rainy day. I had all the lights shut off, the curtains drawn, and my plan was to go deep. And I had specific questions that I wanted to talk with my psyche about. And I knew I wanted to push it deep.

[01:15:00] But there are plenty of times when my girlfriend and I'll do a gram or a gram and a half, where I don't want it to be that deep. And it's more than I want it to be perceived a little bit. It's not just a microdose, but there has to be some play.

[01:15:15] If you're going into it where I've got to do this amount or this strength and this dose, I think you're leaving yourself or you're not giving yourself enough room to play with it and to feel your intuition and gut. There may be times when you want to push it further, when you don't, where there may be-- and I think especially with psychedelics, there is not one-size-fits-all.

[01:15:39] There is not one right way. I actually had a really good conversation with another gentleman from Monroe who I've stayed connected with quite a bit, and he's been exploring a bunch of different modalities as far as expanding his consciousness. And he has tried DMT and hasn't had a breakthrough, hasn't really been able to push it.

[01:16:00] And so I'm really working with him about, well, what did it take? How much? What was the dosage? What was the strength? What was of it? And through it all, I don't feel as though that he's doing anything wrong or that, that the dosage was wrong. He's doing it at his own time, at his own pace.

[01:16:18] He has his own mental blocks that he's got to get out of the way. And the end of that conversation was, you're doing everything right. Your story isn't going to be like mine. It isn't going to be like the next person's. If it takes a week or a year or five years or never, that's your right story.

[01:16:34] And I think that's really important for people. As much as they can use me or you for guidance, as much as they can listen to Rick Strassman and his volunteers, to know that your personal subjective experience is going to be just that, personal and subjective. And that's the beauty of psychedelics, is it helps you as the individual exactly how you need to.

[01:16:55] And I would lean into that. If your body's telling you I want more or I need the strong one, or I really need to purge, then maybe you need to lean into that. If it's, no, I just want a nice Sunday with a light meal and we're going to have some sound therapy and we're going to light the candles. We're going to light a fire.

[01:17:11] Yeah, I just want a nice meditative hum through my body. That's perfectly all right. And I don't think anybody should be ashamed to be like, oh, I only did a little session of ayahuasca, or oh, you're not a real psychic because you didn't do 10 grams of shrooms. You only did two.

[01:17:27] It's like, no, there's a time and a place for all of that. And yeah, definitely everybody has to do it at their own pace, listen to their own intuition and gut. And there's been multiple times when I've bailed on it, where I thought tonight was been going to be the night, and we're going to go deep in the session and last minute.

[01:17:46] It's just something feels either off or that the alignment isn't there. And I'll just simply put away the bowl, and it is what it is. Then there's also times when midday, it'll be Tuesday and it's like, oh, you got to do DMT tonight because something's aligned. And I listened to that as well.

[01:18:04] So there's been random spontaneous times that it just is like, oh yeah, there's a portal or there's a gate where there's information coming through. You probably want to hit this. And I do. And I can say I've never once listened to my intuition and not been happy that I did. So gives me more ammo to keep doing it.

[01:18:23] Luke: Yeah. To your earlier statement, yeah, psychedelics and machismo do not mix.

[01:18:30] Adam: No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not.

[01:18:33] Luke: This is not the space where you got to be badass. Oh my God.

[01:18:37] Adam: Oh, that'll backfire horribly.

[01:18:39] Luke: Yeah. I'd probably be shown in a really painful way why that doesn't serve you. I want to go into the strata of experience with DMT. Now, I've never smoked crystal DMT. I've had it in the form of ayahuasca, Willka snuff. Changa, you smoke. With the exception of the ayahuasca night that I told you about, second most brutal ever, thankfully it was only like 20 minutes was the Willka snuff.

[01:19:12] That was the only time I think that I didn't do the second serving. It was like, that was the container of the ceremony. We're going to do this twice. It lasts about 20 minutes per, both, my wife and I. I looked over at her. I was like, "You going?" She's like, "No." Dude, it was rough, son.

[01:19:33] And everyone else seemed to be fine. I don't know what it was. But anyway, to the point, what I've noticed, and then there's the 5-MeO-DMT, which I'll just bookmark that, but the one time that I did an oral DMT that was a time release situation that wasn't ayahuasca.

[01:19:56] And so I was like, "Oh, finally I found someone who created--" They were in capsules, but essentially is like replicated the ayahuasca experience without all the nausea. I was like, "Yes." I went and did it. And had a really profound experience and just felt totally fine and my body wasn't sick at all and I was in like the deepest DMT space I'd ever been in.

[01:20:17] But what was really interesting in that, and I want to get your experience of the different sort of strata that you passed through, the onset was like visual, and I'm really hearing the music, and I'm just having realizations and things are getting really, really weird. But there's a lot of content.

[01:20:40] There's just, yeah, a lot of things going on visually, mentally, emotionally, beautiful, super, super deep. And then at a certain point it was like I popped through to this other space where all of the content disappeared. It didn't wear off. It was like the strongest point of it, but there were like no visuals.

[01:21:10] And this is the only time this has ever happened to me or for me, I should say. And it's like I popped into this space and it was more just emptiness. And in there it was like, I don't want to say a courtroom because no one was being judged, but it was like a hall of records.

[01:21:31] Adam: Mm-hmm.

[01:21:32] Luke: And I could talk to any soul that I wanted. I was talking to my parents, talking to my wife. I don't see their face, but their consciousness is accessible in there.

[01:21:41] Adam: And you know it's them.

[01:21:42] Luke: Yeah. People from my past. What was so striking about it was that there is no chance of anything other than complete transparency. You couldn't hide anything, anything I thought was instantly known by whoever was sharing this space with me. So it's like a thought, they would be instantly known by them. If they saw something, it was like an Akashic hall of records or something, for lack of--

[01:22:12] Adam: Telepathically conveyed.

[01:22:13] Luke: Yeah.

[01:22:13] Adam: Beautiful.

[01:22:14] Luke: And what's so trippy about it was that part that's just like, oh shit. Everyone in here knows what is going on with the rest of us. And they would come and go. It wasn't like everyone was in there at once. But whoever I felt like I wanted to reach or talk to, they could talk to me. I could talk to them. Again, not in language, but just in knowing, like an internal sort of, I don't know, telepathic communication.

[01:22:43] And I was up in that space for a really long time, and it's a little bit uncomfortable in there because there's no content to distract me. I'm like, "Yeah, where'd the rainbows and stuff go, the fractals, all the cool shit that's really fun to navigate and really interesting?"

[01:23:02] You're just in this space. And it's a long story that I don't want to take up time to tell, but that was the only time in any experience with any psychedelics where I started pursuing this line of thought around forgiveness of one particular person that harmed me. And I was trying to push to see like, had I really forgiven this experience--

[01:23:32] I came to this threshold where it was like, I don't think I'm actually supposed to forgive them. Which was really confronting because everything that's served me in my life has just been unconditional forgiveness for all of reality and everything it includes, let alone someone I would perceive to be a perpetrator.

[01:23:49] And then it's like in that space of emptiness in that hall, I quickly realized that it wasn't the person, it's that the energy of force that had motivated them to harm me. So it's like they were just cast aside, and it's the first time and only time that I'd ever stood in the face of what we would call evil.

[01:24:13] So it wasn't like demons and ghouls, not that. Just the antithesis of love. The total lack of love, whatever that energy is. And I went to battle with that energy in there, and it was just staking--

[01:24:28] Adam: Not the individual.

[01:24:29] Luke: Not the individual. Individual just faded away. I was like, "Oh, it's not even about them." It's like what energy was motivating them or possessing them to hurt me?

[01:24:38] Adam: [Inaudible].

[01:24:39] Luke: Yeah. And there's a point to this-- I'm trying to truncate a really profound experience into something very brief and digestible. So basically, I was advocating for myself in this space and standing up for myself against this dark force. I was summoning Christ consciousness and I was like a warrior in there, just like, fuck this, and just cleaning my shit up.

[01:25:13] Just anything that's not truth, love, integrity, any distortions, I'm just like slicing through it with a sword. And this went on for, I don't know how long in earth time, but when I emerged from that, I felt like I was quite proud of myself that my soul held its ground in there. I didn't cower and I just was like, "Whoa." I was very impressed with whoever the over soul is that's running the Luke show. I was like, "Dude, wow."

[01:25:41] Adam: Bad-ass soul.

[01:25:42] Luke: Good job. Yeah. I was like, "Good job." So I felt unscathed, but then the point of the story is this, is that in the couple of months after that, I felt off. And experiences that I've had in the past, I'm elated for days, if not weeks afterward. Like after 5-MeO-DMT, I'm just like in this beautiful space and I just want to meditate all day.

[01:26:09] I was off after that, and I don't know for sure, but I think it had something to do with the fact that despite I felt like I held my ground and I came out of that victorious in my own light and in love, that there wasn't a ceremonial aspect to that experience.

[01:26:26] It wasn't really led. I had my intentions, and I said my prayers, but it was like in an apartment in downtown Austin. You know what I mean? It wasn't in a maloca in Peru. And I'm not blaming anyone because I felt called to the experience, and I'm glad I did it. But what I'm getting to is like opening up those realms that are just so otherworldly is scary to me because I felt totally protected.

[01:26:55] Yet I felt pretty funky after that as if something had gotten on me. You know what I mean? There was some sort of, I don't want to say entity, but some debris or some psychic infection. Something got its hooks in me that took a little bit of work to clear. I would probably be smoking DMT all the time because I love that space, but I'm afraid of just not having the protection.

[01:27:24] When you're in those other dimensions, it's like you might think you're victorious or badass like I thought I was. In a humble way, just like, wow, I'm finding my own power in here, and I can take care of myself. It's like, even though I felt like I could hold my own, I think something still stuck to me. Which could have been in the building, the people that are there, I don't know.

[01:27:47] So I said all that to say, let's talk about the strata of experience and the context of being safe in those realms where you're navigating because the physical world is such a small percentage of what reality actually is. I'm convinced that where you go on DMT is more real than this space.

[01:28:11] Adam: Mm-hmm. I agree.

[01:28:12] Luke: So I don't even know if we could extract a question from that, but--

[01:28:16] Adam: I got it.

[01:28:17] Luke: You know what I'm saying?

[01:28:18] Adam: So I think just basics. My conclusion from Monroe, from deep meditation, from deep psychedelic work is, again, we are way more than our five senses in our normal walking, waking state, so you can dial them up to a max of 10. Those five senses can be turned up to 1,000 or a million. I think we can expand those five way beyond what we normally do.

[01:28:44] Also, I think there's multiple other senses that we don't quite have names for. So we mentioned telepathy. There are other things that maybe have a little bit of a sense to what's going on, but I think we as humans have so much more potential. That podcast of Telepathy Tapes--

[01:29:03] Luke: Yeah. Incredible.

[01:29:04] Adam: Incredible. So if anybody hasn't watched that or are familiar with Kai Dickens' work--

[01:29:07] Luke: Shit is wild.

[01:29:08] Adam: Shit is wild. So if any one of those kids' story is true, if any aspect of my story is true, if any aspect of Bob Monroe's story true, if any of these near-death experiences have any validity to them, if any one of these things are true, and I believe they all are, to me, that indicates that, again, we are way more sensitive and way more able to take in vibrational information than we typically are.

[01:29:34] And that's normal. That's okay. That's for our own survival. Like all this hox leaves reducing valve mentality that we're taking in such a small percentage of the electromagnetic spectrum. There's so much more information coming, whether it be x-rays, gamma rays, things that we're not even aware of.

[01:29:51] So I think that's pretty clear. And then even to say biological beings are able to have more sensitivity, think about some of the animal senses that are out there. I actually just watched this really cool Instagram post of 10 animals that have inexplainable abilities. And so that proves that biological meat suits are able to become way more sensitive.

[01:30:15] So I think that that's pretty obvious or should be. When we're in these deep psychedelic states, we're adding on those senses, whether we now have 10 or 15 or 20 or whatever it may be, and they're more sensitive, and they're more heightened. You're able to take in that much more information.

[01:30:33] And I think the intention is part of this. There's a lot of love. There's a lot of light, there's a lot of empathy, there's a lot of answers. Like you're saying, that connection to like Akashic records where you're able to just instantly-- and I've had beautiful experiences like that. But I think you'd be naive to say that, with that heightened sensitivity, you're not going to be able to take in potentially dark or negative or other things may be able to latch on or use too.

[01:31:01] Ultimately, if you're increasing the sensitivity of your instrument, you're going to receive some more. So as we or I or anybody goes into these spaces, I think that's really where intention is really big, to set the mood, to set that ceremonial space, to put up the protections.

[01:31:19] And not to say that they'll always be foolproof, but I found that in these spaces, if you confront the darkness with light, if you stand up to them like you did-- I've had one time what I thought a angry, evil energy come at me. I looked at it. I said, "Fuck you. Not today. Get away from me."

[01:31:36] And it instantly dissipated and went away. And so I think it's just knowing that it's not necessarily going to be all love and light and rainbows and unicorns and everything in that space is going to be beautiful. You do have to put up your gods and protects against other aspects of that energy field.

[01:31:53] Because I've been, again, asked that before, where is it possible that negative things could come out of this? And the answer is yes. I personally haven't experienced it, but I don't want to be naive to be like, "No, if you dial in your sensitivity, that it's all going to be great."

[01:32:08] Again, that's why I think intention has to really get into it. But to your question about the levels in the strata, I think DMT probably of most of the molecules has such a huge range of that strata. So from the tiny one half a hit microdose, whether-- and I do want to, if I could, because I think this will help people if they're actually looking to potentially use it.

[01:32:32] When you extract the recipe that I have in my book, you're left with basically a, a waxy crystal. So it's a whitish, slightly tinted crystal that if it gets hot or moist, it'll turn into a waxy consistency. My preferred way of smoking it or ingesting it, would be to put crystals in a regular weed pipe, put a little bit of weed underneath it to basically act as a screen.

[01:32:58] And then you are just roasting those crystals and you can figure out how much you want to put it into it and then how big of a hit, obviously. Another way that I like to do is you take those crystals and you can put it into a vape cartridge pen. So you can make that strength.

[01:33:12] You can put just straight crystals in and then heat it with a hair dryer so that way it does turn to a waxy oil. Or you could cut that with a vape oil, a tobacco oil, a CBD oil. So you can make different strengths of it. And I think there's a-- just same thing, like we were talking about ayahuasca.

[01:33:30] There's a time and a place for the full blast off. Holy shit, I want to have that epiphany. And then there is the, I just want a little bit of a vibration increase. And I use it through all spectrums of it. And similar to like I was talking about with that guy, if you don't have a breakthrough experience, did you do wrong? No.

[01:33:51] Is it not working right if you don't fully blast off and see the spinning shapes? No. There's ranges to it. And each one has its purpose. The blast off range though is something that you need to be prepared for. And like you said, you pop in and you're like, "Oh, shit."

[01:34:10] But I guess maybe the best way for me to describe that would be that first day, because I felt as though I went through pretty much the whole realm of them. But there's a couple of aspects of that first day that I think maybe poignant. So sitting in the perfect space, perfect energy, everything was right. Everything felt good, and that first hit, as much as you're getting a sensation of vibrational hum, instantly your senses, they are. They're certainly starting to change.

[01:34:40] But that first hit, that first day, it felt so natural. It felt so innate. It was not scary at all. There was no sensation of poisoning or like chemicals coming into me. With shrooms, if you take an eighth of shrooms, 20 minutes into it, you're sitting there and you're like, "Oh, shit. I can feel this going through my veins. I can feel it getting into my stomach. I can feel this poison going through me."

[01:35:03] And if you're ready for it, shrooms can be an incredible experience. But this was not that. This felt as though the veil was being removed and lifted. It felt as though I was coming closer to my natural human state. There was none of that fear. Even though the body physiologically was responding.

[01:35:23] There was a familiar taste that, again-- so when you do your breathing exercise and you get that drip in the back of your throat, you'll smell and taste what I'm-- you know what I'm saying. But that first hit was like, oh fuck, I've tasted this before.

[01:35:33] And it brought me back to a time when I was a young adolescent, maybe 12 years old, 10 years old. And I remember it was at a very specific place. I was sitting in my friend's hallway, in a random hallway in his house. And I remember having that taste of sensation.

[01:35:51] So it instantly brought me back to a time prior in my life where I'd had that chemical in my body. And it makes sense because it is naturally induced. So all of those things, that first session was, okay, I'm comfortable. I don't need to be afraid. But there wasn't a breakthrough at. There was no entities.

[01:36:09] There were no machine elves. There was no epiphany. It was just, okay, my body can handle this. It's profound, and it's pretty intense, but it's not scary. And I feel okay. But again, that lasts a couple minutes. You come back. I felt as though I needed to do it again because, again, I was there for specific answers.

[01:36:29] I wasn't there just to see sights and sounds. So the next time I pushed it a little bit further, just a vibration that goes through your whole body. Again, sights and sounds are starting to mend and change. Your perception is starting to expand where you're looking from the inside as well as being from out.

[01:36:48] Again, no breakthroughs, no epiphany, no voices. It was just like, all right, this feels good. Pushed it again, pushed it again, pushed it again. Now I'm starting to see the Alex Gray type spinning [Inaudible] and that crazy shit. And I was like, "Wow, this is beautiful." But I wasn't there for sights and sounds.

[01:37:07] Again, I was really trying to figure out how do I stay on this planet. And it was that last session where I pushed it deeper and further and I hit that breaks through place. And that was the first time that something different had happened. So that last session, again, each one started with an intention, with a prayer.

[01:37:25] But I really pleaded with the universe that I don't know what answer I'm looking for. I don't even know what the fuck guidance I'm asking for. But man, if I leave this house today without it, this is it. I'm not going to be able to be on this planet anymore. So please, if there's any time for you to give me something, this would be it.

[01:37:43] And that last session was when everything changing was completely different. So it started with the sights, the sounds, the normal vibratory hum. And then to your question about the strata, there's such distinct levels where I knew I needed to push it, and I took that last big, big deep hit.

[01:38:01] And that's when everything changed. So all the sights and sounds went away, all the lights went away. And it's not like I was shot up into the space or that I was falling. I was just in this black space, completely comfortable. All the sights and sounds stopped and there was just this conveyance of information.

[01:38:18] And in this particular case, still no entities, no creatures, which those did progress. This was just a conveyance of information. And the best way for me to sum it up would be with all the shit that just led up to where I was in my life, I had this beautiful upbringing with all the advantages, but in a short amount of time, everything had self-destructed.

[01:38:39] And I had all this conflict about, how could this possibly be that my past ended up like this? Then it was, well, now what the fuck do I do in the future? I'd have no place to live. I've now lost two high-paying jobs. So I start something completely new. At that point, I wasn't in a relationship. I have no girlfriend.

[01:38:56] And my mind was constantly going back from the stress of the past to the anxiety of the future. And that's what ultimately was causing me to be suicidal, mentally unstable, and not wanting to be on here anymore, was that I couldn't just be here in the moment now.

[01:39:14] And that last session, it was, all right, here are your 1,000 biggest proverbial dots that you need connecting, rattling on in your head. And it was instantly connected with all of the information that needed to connect it. And it was like, boom, here you go. And then those shattered. And then there was a million proverbial dots, and then those all connected and then those shattered. And there was a trillion.

[01:39:34] And the number just kept expanding until the conveyance was you stupid human. The point isn't to connect all the dots. It's to appreciate the space between the dots. It's not to make sense and have a constant sound. It's to enjoy the quiet between the beats.

[01:39:51] And basically I came out of that in a crying, crumpled mess knowing that I had this very second, this very microsecond. And again, corny Ram Dass be here now type shit. But it really was, fuck, man. You have this one second. All you have is this one moment right now.

[01:40:09] And yes, now you have all the spotlight again, shine down all your crap. But man, you're in control of this second. You're in control of what you do. You're in control of if you drink, if you don't drink, if you raise your voice, if you point a finger at somebody.

[01:40:22] And with the inner shadow work that I had achieved with the shrooms months prior, it all snapped it into a self-recognition of my own accountability, of what I had had in the past, but man, my future can be so beautiful and bright if I just make that a reality. And that was really that take-home epiphany, was, fuck be here right now, this very second, and that's all you're in control of.

[01:40:50] And that was three and a half years ago. And I've literally lived every second to the second. And that doesn't mean don't have plans. That doesn't mean don't strive for goals. That really just is succumbing to a universal plan that's greater than you, that you'll never be able to figure out, and just sit back and put out what you want to put out.

[01:41:11] And I was putting out darkness, hate, just all of the shit that I was not wanting in my life. That's all I was focusing on. And all of the stuff that I wanted in my life, I couldn't grasp because it was just either in the past or the future. And as soon as I realized that it was right here for the taking right now, that changed everything.

[01:41:28] So an answer to low introductory, nice feeling of an innate hum and vibration and, hey, this is removing the veil and getting me closer to the whole full-blown epiphany of a download of information. But that still doesn't really even scratch the surface of the range of entity interactions from the "machine elves" to the jesters, which when people try to describe them, I think they have their own flavor and ambiance.

[01:41:58] So it's not like everybody sees the same purple lady or everybody sees the jester with the spiked hat. It's, is it welcoming? Is it a feeling of heaviness or lightness? Is it one entity or multiple? And those are the types of experiences that over the years have really grown and changed and have quite honestly been fun as hell to talk and play with the elves and the jesters, to have the conveyance of information from the fatherly mentor role, to make love with the feminine energies from the beginning of history, to, I mentioned before recording, how I had an interaction, what I consider with my future self.

[01:42:40] And that whole range of different interactions, I think, are accessible with different doses of DMT, with different levels of DMT, and then also different external add-ons. So do you want to do it with your eyes closed, your eyes open? Do you want to do it with sights and sounds or quiet? Do you want to do it alone or with a partner?

[01:43:03] And all of those will, I think, change what type of interaction or experience that you'll have. But for me, they've all been beautiful. They've all been profound. And I want to say too, same thing with like Monroe. They say five people actually have an out-of-body experience.

[01:43:21] So if you're going there being like, "Oh, I want astral project and I want to have an autobody experience," you may be disappointed. Same thing if you're going into DMT space being like, "Oh, I want an entity interaction. I really want to interact with something or some sentient being." That doesn't happen all the time. For me anyway, it doesn't happen.

[01:43:40] Maybe 25% of the time is I'll actually get some conveyance of information, where the other times it really is just a space that's comfortable with vibratory hum and cool sights and sounds. But you never quite know what you're going to get out of it, but you can try to set the intention as best you can.

[01:44:00] Luke: I've only had one DMT experience where I felt like-- usually with any psychedelic for me, it's like God and some higher, timeless, eternal version of myself.

[01:44:16] Adam: Mm-hmm.

[01:44:17] Luke: It's like, I'll ask a question. It's not like a machine elf comes out of the closet and it's like, "Oh, here's the answer's." It's like I'm answering it myself. It's like I'm talking to myself in a sense. But it gives me access to a more evolved, wise me that's talking to the me that's still stuck in whatever human shit I'm working through, which was the case a week ago.

[01:44:45] But I did have one experience, one of the first ayahuasca ceremonies where it wasn't even like entities. It's like all these things, I'm sure, you try to explain shit to people and it's just ineffable.

[01:44:57] But it was like the only time I was aware that it wasn't me and it wasn't like the Godhead, and it wasn't in a body, it wasn't a jaguar, my grandma, it was just, it was clear that like I was communicating with something that had its own consciousness. And it was more like a ship, a giant ship of light, where it was like all mechanical in a way. Meaning it was like a machine, but a machine of light. Right?

[01:45:38] Adam: The computer matrix.

[01:45:39] Luke: Yeah. And don't let me forget to talk about Danny and the laser thing, by the way. Bookmark that. What was different about it was it was asking for my consent to work on me. And I felt such a loving presence, and I felt so safe. It was so warm and just of love that I agreed.

[01:46:03] And basically, I'm laying on my back and it's like, my eyes are closed, obviously, but it's like hovering above me. And then it said something like, "Can we heal your heart?" And I was like, "Oh, it's been broken a lot. I could really use that. Yeah."

[01:46:22] And so it starts almost like a telescope, how a telescope comes out and gets longer. It's like that. It's hovering above me and it's making these sounds, [Inaudible], very mechanistic, but warm still. Not mechanistic in the sense of like machinery that's cold and unfeeling. Like a very good, warm, loving feeling.

[01:46:52] But basically I came down. I was in my heart, rearranging shit. And it felt really good and really sad too, because of what it's healing is just pain that I hadn't been able to let go of. So this goes on, but I'm very aware that something's doing something for me.

[01:47:10] And then it's like, "What about your mind? Do you want to work on the mind?" I was like, "Even more. Yeah." And then does the same kind thing, going [Inaudible] into my head and rearranging things. And it was such a cool experience and also hard not to get attached to that.

[01:47:30] In subsequent experiences I've had, it's not like I've any real attachment to that happening. But I wouldn't be mad at it if that thing, whatever that was-- but you know what the funny thing was, now that I think about it, it wasn't an it. It was a they. It was like, when I would talk to, I'd say you guys, plural. And then when they would talk to me, it was like, we are doing this. Can we do that?

[01:47:54] But then it's never happened since that. I just wondered, maybe it was just a one-time shot. And certainly, whatever it said it was doing, it had an effect in real life after that. My heart was different. My mind was different. But when I hear other people's stories of different types of entities and beings and things like that, that was the only time that I've had anything close to that, which is interesting.

[01:48:18] Adam: Those are the best kinds. So I would say that is a distinct group or flavor of ambiance where-- and I've had with all of the experiences, maybe I think five stand out as very distinct scenarios like that when an entity, a being, whatever, basically came into your body and showed you how to, whether it be fix your heart or brain, where in my cases I had very distinct ones where it was like, let me show you how to breathe and absorb oxygen properly.

[01:48:48] And you're literally feeling the absorption of oxygen through every cell in every part of your body. Or let me show you how to pulse your blood properly, and to show how to get in and do that. Or I had one where they basically asked-- again, they always typically ask for permission. Can I come in into your body and let me show you what it's like to run it all?

[01:49:08] So that was one of the best experiences where-- it's almost like equating a transformer body came and attached itself to you and now you can feel and understand just how much powerful you are. So it's like they're giving you a guidebook or a handbook on how to unlock all of your hidden secrets.

[01:49:26] And it goes from like driving a shitty car with 100 horsepower in automatic transmission to a race car with rocket fuel and nitrous oxide, and it can fly and go in water and all their shit. And it's like, you come back and this is where some of the naysayers or people that don't quite understand it, they'll be like, "Oh, that's just your brain hallucinating on drugs." Or, "You're just seeing this and it's not real. It's not real."

[01:49:54] As much as I am convinced with my experiences that this is tangible and that it is real, part of me wants to say I don't care because there are so many veterans and so many people with mental health issues, or even mine in your own experiences where you come back and it changes you.

[01:50:10] You come back knowing that these are the keys to your body. You come back knowing that, wow, I've just been operating at a 10 when I can operate at 100. Or I only thought I was black and white and I have a whole rainbow of colors. Or I'm only limited to this when really I'm limitless.

[01:50:24] And those are the lessons that you take back and apply them into everyday life. So again, what's the actual basis of it, or what's the ontology of it, or how is it manifested or created or from what actual material? I don't know. And that's not even one of the questions I'm asking when I go into that space, is, are you real or not? Because the results are so tangible.

[01:50:54] And I think the best way for me really even just to describe how tangible it is, and this is why I'm so passionate about sharing it, because when I was at that point in my life, when I wanted to walk off into the woods and not come back, I wanted to get out of my skin.

[01:51:11] There was not one time when I was comfortable. It's just every conversation and relationship was strained. Every time I looked in the mirror brushing your teeth, you could barely make eye contact with yourself. Again, I not only wanted to end my own life, but I wanted to blow up the world with me.

[01:51:29] I wanted to be anywhere but me in my own skin and as my own soul. And I've been saying this often lately because I feel it's like the best way to really describe it. I am so comfortable in my own skin. I want to be no one but Adam Butler at 45 years old. And it's not like, oh, I want to be a whale or a jaguar, or I want to ascend to my home planet, or I'd like to be me with more of this or me at a different time.

[01:51:55] I am exactly where I need to be, exactly who I am. And I wake up extremely comfortable every day being in my own skin. And that's it. I'm not seeking for anything else. I know my soul is exactly where it needs to be. And that's a win. If all of these people that have mental health issues or anxiety or stress, or even and rightly, maybe they had an extreme loss, maybe they just lost their wife and kids in a car accident, and they'd be like, how could I possibly want to be in this skin?

[01:52:28] I'm going to be the widowed husband with pictures of my daughters on the-- yes, you'll find a way to be comfortable in that skin because you'll start the foundation to raise money for this. There's ways that you can turn that into, wow, this narrative happened to me because it's exactly how it was supposed to.

[01:52:48] And I think a lot of people turn to psychedelics because of trauma or because things aren't right, or because they are suicidal, like in my case, or because they have had some major trauma and there's just-- it's not even, well, what compartment in my brain do I put this information? There's no compartment in your brain to handle, oh, I just lost my wife and kids.

[01:53:06] Or I just had-- this is really cool. My first high school person reach out to me, and I haven't talked to him in 20 something years. He was a leader of a military group, and he's somebody, he'll probably be listening to this because I'm going to be working with him in the future trying to help some stuff out.

[01:53:23] But he said he lost six buddies over in combat. He's like, "I have survivorship guilt." Where the fuck do you put in your brain losing six people that you loved in combat and then somehow having some sort of blame on that. And the truth is that's not a normal thing for most people to have to process.

[01:53:41] That's a very unique and specific point of your brain that you need to put that information in. And I think psychedelics allow that creation of that compartment to put that information and put it in a way that allows you to use it to your advantage and not use it for your self-destruction. Because life is going to be tough.

[01:53:59] Life is not going to get easier. Again, this isn't all rainbows and unicorns. Life is difficult and it's going to throw you with death and loss and trauma and shit that goes beyond your belief or beyond your control. But can you put it in a way that you can turn it in a, not even necessarily positive light, but you can turn it in a way that's helpful to you. You can turn it into a positive light.

[01:54:25] I met a guy that him and his wife were driving to the hospital, and she lost her baby on the way to the hospital with a still birth. And when they were at the hospital the doctors asked him like, do you want to hold your baby? And the initial response was, it's not my baby. It's a dead carcass. What the fuck?

[01:54:44] And then luckily they realized that, no, that is our baby. And he said he held his deceased, still-born child, and he's now turned that and he has his own podcast, and he's a great guy. I'm more than happy to introduce you to him. He's an amazing guy.

[01:55:01] He turned that loss, him and his wife turned that loss into driving motivation to help others and just share love and light. And now the way he turns it was, one, he had a very clear interaction from that baby soul saying, basically, you didn't lose me. I'm still here. I'm here to help you.

[01:55:21] I'm not going to be in that particular body, but my energy is here, and I love you. And then also he looks at every child now as that's a bit of his own child. And he now can look into the eyes of every little baby and see the loving light like it's his own. And it's like, fuck man, you're telling me that's not a powerful way to turn that around?

[01:55:43] So you went from losing, you think you'll want and only child to now loving every baby that you get to look into because you know that's a part of your child. Somehow that energy is there. And some people may look at that story and be like, "Bullshit. There's no way I could do that. I would still be a mess."

[01:55:59] Maybe. For him it worked and him and his wife now, they've had another kid. They're happy that he's used that. But most people consider a horrific loss, and it is, but you change your perspective on it to allow you to process it in a way that not only helps you, but allows you to thrive. And again, me sitting on this throne with a silver spoon my entire life, maybe it's easy for me to say that, that there's ways to overcome any adversity.

[01:56:30] I'm not naive to say that I've walked in every person's shoes, but I've now befriended enough people and have heard enough transformational stories to know that damn near everything that you've experienced can be put into a perspective that allows you to feel comfortable in your own skin and not want to run.

[01:56:45] And that is the real value of self-knowledge, self-love, inner work. And for a lot of people, I think psychedelics is the catalyst for that. And if everybody could just feel a touch of that, man, that's what the world needs. And that's the message that I'm really so passionate about sharing, is figure out a way to turn that darkness into light. To turn your own personal adversity into your own personal narrative to help others.

[01:57:17] And you may not think it, but what's-- well, maybe thinking that you want to jump off a cliff is what's going to give you the parachute and wind to lift you up. And I've seen it when people just literally one day, they're done. And then the next day they've got the life force back in them. If you can be a part of that, that's the addictive part of DMT, is knowing that, man, it can change people's lives.

[01:57:43] Luke: Beautiful. I agree, 100%. I think sometimes time helps with that because you can look back on things in your past and see, oh, okay, this super shitty thing that I perceived to be shitty at the time from that vantage point, it's the worst possible thing that could have ever happened.

[01:58:03] And then sometime goes by and your life takes its course and you see, oh, there was actually a gift in that. I think what's been really powerful for me to observe and practice, and largely due to changing my perception with psychedelics is that that becomes, for me, an automatic response in real time.

[01:58:28] Like, oh, I wanted the thing. I didn't get the thing. I didn't want the thing, and I got the thing. My automatic response is trust, where it took a long time to get to that point, to not feel like a victim or the things aren't going my way. Or if I had this, I'd be happier. If I get rid of this, I'd be happier.

[01:58:52] It's like when things are unexplainable and my reaction would've been to perceive that situation as something negative, I have much more of a neutral experience of it and I'm able to see, and yeah, just let shit go in real time that I would've gotten so stuck on in the past.

[01:59:15] Adam: And I think there's a value to neutralizing an emotion, but there's a way of even completely turning it on a script. And I apologize if people have heard me use this as an example before, but something simple where the other women that I was with-- and I was in three long-term relationships prior to with the woman I'm with now.

[01:59:37] They were all amazingly beautiful women and would've been a dream relationship for damn near any guy to be in. They really were amazing, amazing women. But with my mental mindset, I was always nitpicking. They would always be something that I could find to critique. And something even as simple as leaving your shoes near the door and not putting them away would turn into a how could you, in a fight, in a screaming.

[01:59:59] But then now rage by alcohol turns into a real thing and then turns into a sleeping on the couch and no whatever. Certainly no sex, no love making, none of that shit. To now you see the same pair of shoes, and I think about how beautiful my girlfriend's feet are. I can't wait to touch them and massage them.

[02:00:14] I can't wait to feel those very feet rubbing against mine. And then it turns into a, I see her and I can't wait to kiss her and hug her and tell her I love her because she left her shoes by the door. Because that means she's here. She's in my house. She's going to be spending the night with me.

[02:00:29] It's just completely, completely different. And that's what happened with my dad over the last couple of days, just to have a complete shift of like, everything that I was looking at him being like, you're so faulted. You're so flawed. You're so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because he wasn't conforming to my way of thinking.

[02:00:52] And then just to have that perspective shift to be like, "Oh fuck. He's in his own space, at his own time for his own reasons, learning his own lessons." And I was able to perceive it in a helpful way to everybody involved. When I got on the plane, whatever, seven days [Inaudible] come out here, basically the issue was me, my mom, and my dad.

[02:01:16] And all three of us had-- and me, not from them. They love me and support me. They don't have any conflict with me. It's me with them. And I was able just to see it in a completely different way where nothing's changed. No facts on the ground have changed. Just my way of looking at it.

[02:01:35] This happened through a deep psychedelic session a couple of days ago. And it's like, wow, I'm going to come home and mend a relationship with my dad that I didn't even think was possible. I even told him. Me and my dad were best friends for 40-plus years of my life growing up.

[02:01:53] We owned businesses together. We worked together nonstop. We used to smoke and drink together all the time. And then only up until a couple of years ago when I moved back into my parents' house that this major conflict arise. And without getting into all the details, because he's got some darkness in his life, he was projecting that onto my mother. And I'm the biggest mama's boy out there.

[02:02:16] My mom is the most beautiful being in this planet. And it's like, if anybody ever messes with my mom, no tolerance for that. And that's where the conflict was, where I was stepping in, being like, "What the fuck? Don't treat my mom like this. Don't talk to my mom like this."

[02:02:30] And I'm not making excuses, and there are a lot of things that I still think need to change, but I was able to have a different perspective on my relationship, their relationship, the time, the lessons he's teaching me, the lessons I'm teaching him. And the truth is, is that both of him and I have walked very, very, very tight line where I think either way, if he didn't go right on it or if I didn't go right on it, he'd be gone or I'd be gone.

[02:03:04] And the realization was we were looking at each other like each other's worst enemy. And wow, we're going to bring each other down. And this is out of my system too over the last couple of days. Him and I got into fights where I threatened to kill him. And I looked at him dead in the face, standing in his own home, being like, "I'll fucking end you." And mean it.

[02:03:25] And knowing that I have the power to do that. Then him standing there in his own home basically saying the same thing to me in different ways, but he could have done it to me. And it got to that point where two men who were there for one another, loving each other, literally almost took each other out.

[02:03:42] Where I think now I can have a change of conversation that they're going to put it all into balance where him, me, and my mom now can be happy. I really do. And I was so pissed at him. I even told him like, "If you fucking die and we haven't healed this, I'm going to be so pissed at you."

[02:04:01] Because he's 72, 73, and even you just talking about your dad passing, about how things you needed to say to him and not even forgive him, more just let him know that you understand it from a bigger, larger picture. And that that's really important. And I was looking at my experience with him and with my mom was such a singular, myopic personal perspective.

[02:04:24] And because of that I was butt hurt, I was angry, and I'm going to stand up for my mom. Taking a greater perspective and seeing how it all works, I think we both saved each other. And I think I'm not an alcoholic because of him, and he-- there's a lot of details that him and I have to work out, but to look at it like that and be like, "Holy shit, how did that perspective change?"

[02:04:49 And it's because you're able to step outside of this individual life, look at it from a bigger perspective, and look at it from more than just your own ego and butt hurt, little whatever, like human. Like this is what happened to me. And in the grand scheme of things, I feel like his and I energy as souls have swirled together multiple lifetimes in multiple different capacities that we will continue to.

[02:05:15] And this was one of those like, yeah, don't you know we signed up for this? This is what we both needed to do. Again, if it's true or not, I could give a fuck because I'm going to go home and hug my dad. And I haven't done that in years.

[02:05:35] So that's the power of psychedelics. Not everybody's going to have the same issue with their mom and dad that I do. They may have lost their dad. They may have lost their kid. They may have whatever, lost six of their comrades, like my buddy. Whatever it is, if it's causing you pain, like it did me to where you're screaming at somebody you love, tell them you're going to end their life, that's never going to do you any good.

[02:05:58] And if you can do something, whether it's a fucking cold plunge or a hot bath or whatever it is, to get your mind to not think like that, man, that's it. That means everything. And one of the reasons why I wanted to have a conversation with you was the openness and calmness that you and your wife have, that communication, it's so genuine and authentic.

[02:06:23] And without even knowing that, I'm sure there's hiccups. I'm sure there's times when everything isn't all smooth. But the calmness and the understanding and the love and the sympathy that you guys have for one another, it reminds me of how I talk with my girlfriend now, where there is no raising of voices. There's no pointing of fingers. There's no judging. It's an accepting of the other person.

[02:06:43] And that type of communication, whether it be with a loved one, whether it be male or female, whether it be employee, employer, whether it be stranger on the street, if you can look at each person like that, I don't know. How would there be wars? How would there be people killing one another? How would there be people raping each other?

[02:07:01] How would there be people-- to me, that gets completely taken off the table once you realize like, we're all in this together and, I don't know, we can achieve so much more beauty and greatness working together in a collaborative way than in a competitive, hoarding way. Yeah, fucking crying and ranting on that one, but just a lot. It can change some stuff.

[02:07:27] So when people say, "Whatever. Oh yeah, you're just trying to see sights and sounds." Or really you're going out to Utah and you're going to trip out in the desert, like, for what? Well, for what, is because the biggest roadblock in my life that I didn't even think would be removed just got removed in a fucking afternoon.

[02:07:44] So that's the power of this. But I also want to take it one step higher. It's because I took the week off to travel out into the country, to know that I was worth it, when I could have easily said, "I don't have the money. I don't have the time." Both my jobs are seasonal. They both just ended.

[02:08:02] I have no money going into the winter. I could have every excuse about how, not only not come out to that, but then extend the trip three days to come here. It was like, no, you can't. It's like, well, no, you can and you have to. And things just seem to come together in a way that in hindsight, in five years from now, I'm sure I'll look back and be like, "Oh yeah, that was so obvious."

[02:08:25] But the point was I had that realization, yes, because I was in a safe space. Yes, because I had a husband and wife who are absolutely amazing, who treated me like I was the only soul on this planet. But that all happened because I told myself I was worth it. That I told myself that, Adam Butler, you are worth whatever cost, whatever time, whatever.

[02:08:47] And if people can say that to themselves, and it's going to be way different for everybody, whether it be the 12-year-old who's trying to figure out middle school, who wants to wear orange pants, but they think they get made fun of, not wear the fucking orange pants, be yourself, be true, to whatever, the whole range of spectrum of people.

[02:09:04] But know that you're whatever. You are worth it. You are who you have to be. You can only be yourself perfectly. You can't be anybody else perfectly or like anybody else. And if people really figure out, fuck, the best thing for me to do for myself and for this world and society is to just be myself, authentic, true, and raw, and not try to be like anybody else, if we all did that, I think we would have all the pieces of the puzzle to have that next step of human evolution that we say we want.

[02:09:34] Because we all have that unique light to shine. It may be creative. It may be artistic. Some people may be musicians or authors, or people may make the best cappuccino you've ever made. Whatever your skillset is, do that and shine.

[02:09:51] Luke: Beautiful man, I'm so stoked for the story you told about your dad.

[02:09:57] Adam: Me too. I can't wait to talk to him.

[02:09:59] Luke: I think a lot like you. What if the world-- just thinking about so many well-meaning people that want to change the world. I really think you've nailed it on so many levels. The self-love, self-worth, and having enough of that where I'm able to reconcile relationships with my immediate family.

[02:10:24] And I think that's the thing that's one of the most difficult things to do, and also the most rewarding. It's incredible. And having lost my dad, as I was in his room when he was in the process of dying, I was just overwhelmed with gratitude that he and I, in our own ways, had been on a individual journeys of healing and awakening. And also together, there wasn't anything left unsaid or unforgiven. It's like, wow.

[02:10:57] Adam: Hmm.

[02:10:58] Luke: What a beautiful gift and a beautiful testament to two souls that were like, man, if we're going to be here in this body for a while in this place that's-- it's a bitch to be a human, especially a human on a spiritual journey. I think that's probably the hardest journey you could take.

[02:11:16] The chances of that happening in our family, going-- you were talking about the alcoholism going back in your family. I don't know what happened pre-history in my family, but there's a long line of very hurt people hurting other people.

[02:11:30] And just be sitting in a room with a guy who chose differently, who chose to change his perception, as you described. And the fact that I did that, and it's like, I wish he was still here, but thank God we came to that mutual acceptance and truly unconditional love.

[02:11:50] Adam: I don't know what episode, but it was one you were talking about your dad, about how you loved him without conditions or-- you said basically two words about like, loving him just wholly without anything in return. And that, I think, is so important where if you're looking for something in return or that it's conditional, it takes away from you.

[02:12:15] It doesn't feel as good for you, in an almost selfish way. And as much as I'm talking about sharing love and light and about helping others, in my own selfish way, I'm saying that because it makes me feel so fucking good. When I wake up every day, before I get out of bed, I already have goosebumps and I'm so happy to be alive and to experience what the day's going to bring.

[02:12:38] When I go to bed at night, I have minutes, and I don't even know. Each day's different, but just recounting the day of just full gratitude and appreciation. That process feels so good. I said make sure I have a cleanup. I cry every day, all day. And that's not from sadness. That's from just pure emotion coming through my body.

[02:13:06] So as much as it's, yeah, help others, if anybody could walk a day in my shoes-- so now, at 45 years old, and not that I was some millionaire, but I was making 200 grand a year for many, many years, and I had multiple homes and multiple all that shit, to living still in my parents' basement.

[02:13:24] I told you I had multiple jobs. The highest paying one is $24 an hour, when I used to make a thousand bucks a day easy. And I have a lot of things on paper now that are way different and not as maybe good as what they were before.

[02:13:40] But man, if anybody could spend a half a day in my body and feel what it's like to be that content, that happy, to be able to instantly produce goosebumps of joy and gratitude, to go into deep meditative states and pulse endogenous DMT, to make a static transcendental love with a woman that you've truly love on every level, to have deep, meaningful conversations-- you and I just got brought into each other's lives.

[02:14:04] I'm sitting in your home. We're having, fuck, 250-minute conversation where all the barriers are gone. That is fucking beautiful. So would I rather do this and at whatever cost or lack of money making? And I want to reference that with the world is providing.

[02:14:22] I'm being blessed, and I'm in need of no material things. Everything I need is truly handed to me. But I know that this is better than a 10,000-dollar paycheck. This is better than, whatever, going to Vegas and winning the slots or getting a prostitute or whatever. It's like, no, this is the--

[02:14:41] Luke: I can vouch for that.

[02:14:42] Adam: This feels so fucking good. And again, this is going to be subjectively unique for everybody, but if everybody can say that same thing, like, man, I woke up and just this ecstatic bliss of being me, it really is a-- not selfish. It's not selfish, but there is a selfish aspect to it where I want to keep doing this because it makes me hum and vibrate and have goosebumps and express myself fully. Where I'm out into the desert on my hands and knees with my hands truly digging into the earth, giving thanks to Mother Earth.

[02:15:21] And then it's looking up to the stars and giving thanks for the sun and the moon, and everything in between. And it's like, if you are walking around with just such an innate and natural sense of gratitude and appreciation and love and connection, but still have the awareness of the life I lived and the ability to snap into a different mindset if need be.

[02:15:45] But to know that that mindset is only brought up when I need to. So if I do need to stand up or if I do need to-- say whatever. If you and I were at a concert and some whack job started doing shit, you'd want to see the red-eyed Adam Butler that I was talking about was from six years ago, because that guy would run towards that guy and take him out.

[02:16:01] So it's not dissolve all those negative aspects of myself or that I'm a completely different person and that part of me is gone and I dissolved him, and I never want that part. No. I've embraced that part of my life. I love that part of my life. I'm not running from it.

[02:16:17] I'm not making excuses for it. I use it now as part of my strength of who I am today. So it's just a way of putting your whole life into a context that you can be comfortable here today. And then I have full confidence that this will convey for the rest of my life, whether that's another day or if I get to live till 90.

[02:16:41] I'm happy and content. And then the fact that I said I interact with my future self before, I have zero fear of death. I am not worried at all about my next transmutation of form. And man, that means I won. I won at life. Pretty much like we were saying before, died without dying and came back.

[02:17:00] And now I know every second is a blessing. And that's not, wow, I figured this out. You read literature from thousands and thousands of years ago and from all different spiritual teachings and from pretty much all different religious texts. They all are saying similar things of figuring out what I figured out.

[02:17:20] I'm just happy I did. And that's what the plan is now, is to, yeah, share that message. So part of the, I don't know if I should-- well, I should say it because it'll force me to do it. Because I've said a few things on camera before where it's like, I'm going to say this to put it out there.

[02:17:36] But with all of my business successes and all the things that I've been able to do for myself and all the material wealth that I've been able to gain for myself, and I still have connections with millionaires and billionaires in my phone that I feel like I can contact and hit up, in 2026, I want to start a nonprofit basically to help people find their in a light and love to somehow experience what I've experienced.

[02:18:01] And I don't know if I raised 10,000 or 10 million or 50 million, whatever it may be. I know that financial barriers are a real thing for a lot of people to be able to experience what I've experienced, and that's going to be a big part of my journey now, is to try to get people in their own way, whether it be a scholarship to Monroe, a scholarship to whatever, DMT session, whatever it may be.

[02:18:24] Part of my life now is to try to help people experience what I've experienced in their own unique way, however that may be. But that to me is going to be way more rewarding than, oh, I got this royalty check, or I got to-- my last job was selling marble and granite on Martha's Vineyard, and I was getting 10% commission.

[02:18:43] And these are $40 million houses worth a $30 million guest house that have hundreds of thousands of marble and granite. So you can imagine 10% of that. Very easy money. Very quick, easy money. And I look back like, I don't know. Not only did that not give me joy or goosebumps, it literally drove me into the ground where what I'm doing now is giving me all that I need.

[02:19:07] And I feel like I want to make that same money, but just pass it to people that haven't experienced what I've had. Because I've lived enough in 45 years where I could die tomorrow and be truly happy and blessed. And I want to now try to share that with other people.

[02:19:22] And the next book's coming out soon. I've got actually two books that I'm working on and a bunch of just other cool experiences. And again, selfishly, but being transparent, I'm sure being on your podcast is going to open up a whole new audience and a new group of people, and people that may not be interested in DMT or psychedelics or even Monroe, but they may hear something that I said that'll resonate and click, and it just keeps expanding.

[02:19:48] My calendar literally is full every day, all day with awesome people and cool shit, and great interviews, and awesome opportunities. And I mentioned I'm doing a darkness retreat in February for five days, which is going to be insane. I don't know. I don't know where the hell my life is going to lead, but I guarantee it's going to be beautiful and wonderful and that it's going to be uniquely mine, therefore it can't be wrong. So it's like, I don't know. That just opens up so much freedom to express yourself and be yourself.

[02:20:19] Luke: The felt sense of being that you describe, I suspect, is what many people think they're going to feel when they get the Ferrari or the fill in the blank. It's like, it's not the thing that we even want. It's the feeling that we attribute, usually falsely, to the thing. You're like, ah, I got very little money, living in my parents' basement.

[02:20:45] I think anyone that is after the feeling that you have, it's going to be very insightful for them. And it's a great reminder for me too, because I'm, I think-- I don't know. Many people are like this, more man that I know. Just feel like I have to be producing, accomplishing, growing, building, building, building. And sometimes I'll even catch myself and be like, why am I even doing this? You know what I mean?

[02:21:10] It's like, what do I think is over there on the other side of that? One of my goals is to live in Costa Rica for some of the time. And it's like, cool, goals are great, but what if I could just have the feeling that I think I'm going to have if I'm in Costa Rica, sitting here in Texas. The feeling isn't in Costa Rica. The feeling is in here. It's endogenous.

[02:21:37] Adam: Point of telling our stories that we're putting out data points. So at some point there's going to be 10,000, a million, whatever that number is, data points to say, "Hey, listen, this works and this is what's happening." But I think to the point that you're making too, there's so many data points from people that have achieved all those successes, that have the multiple Ferraris, that have-- think about some of the biggest names that have taken their lives that have everything on paper.

[02:22:03] It's proven that the Ferrari doesn't give you happiness. It's proven that this-- and again, I don't want to be naive where people are like, "Yeah, that's easy for you to say. You've got--" My parents' house is on a beautiful lake, and I open my sliding glass door to a dock with a boat.

[02:22:19] So yes, I'm living in my parents' basement, but it's a beautiful lake house. Yeah, easy for you to say. I'm not suggesting, and I'm not naive to say that we're not going to all have our own issues, but I can guarantee you that it's not the material wealth, but it's not mutually exclusive. Can you have the Ferrari and the 10 million in the bank and be happy and content and blissed out like I am? Absolutely. And there are people like that. So again, it's not, alcohol is the problem, money's the problem, or financial success or accumulation of things is the problem. It's, what's your attachment to it?

[02:22:58] If I had this beautiful, expensive house in Sedona in five years from now, that'd be fantastic. But I'd be thinking about how I could use it for retreats, how I could share it with other people, how I could-- it's more than just, oh yeah, I'll show those guys I got a $3 million home over here.

[02:23:14] It's how you interact with that stuff and things. And that's where I feel comfortable that I'll be able to navigate the highs, the lows, the ups and downs, the changing of my material status and wealth as things go without losing the lessons that I've learned. And again, I'm not doing anything new or novel.

[02:23:37] I'm following the advice of people that I've read and studied and using as mentors that this is the way to go, man. You can't have a complete change in perspective and shift. And once you do that, you're good. Maybe it's a corny example, but Mother Theresa and Gandhi, they didn't have material wealth or successes, but they ate great food.

[02:24:00] They slept in amazing places. They traveled the world. They had the love and admiration of many. But you can have the other good stuff too. I think there are plenty of wealthy, wealthy people that have really dedicated their lives to helping others too. And that's where I think I needed to lose it all when I had it all to maybe now, next time, to be like, "You know what? Let's spread this out a little bit instead of hoarding."

[02:24:23] Maybe to wrap it up or to come back to what we were saying, this globe and this planet is so full of resources, so full of everything, and so many people are trying to hoard their own little lot of land or their whatever, chest of shit. And there's no reason to have that. Because if I keep my chest of shit, and everybody else keeps their chest a shit, we're all just going to have our own individual chest of shit as opposed to if everybody can share. And I mentioned that where I came from Utah with that couple, that was a pretty expensive retreat that it would've been. They invited me for free, for everything. Paid for everything, including my food, including the medicine, including the steak.

[02:25:08] So it's like the world provides. And there are plenty of people like that out in the world that will give you truly their shirt off their back. And even my algorithms on Instagram, you're seeing all these beautiful people in the world helping others. And I think people need to realize that that's out there too.

[02:25:28] And figure out what you're watching on TV and what you're listening to and what people you're using to influence you. Because you put on the news, read the paper, and it's all doom and gloom, and it's all negative talk, and it's all breaking each other down, and how we differ from opinions where you start realizing there are people out there feeding the homeless and helping out people and really doing the good work.

[02:25:50] And I want to be part of that team. I am part of that team. And it's just now a matter of let's give our team a little bit more limelight and a little more speaker time than the assholes that are fighting on TV about shit.

[02:26:06] Luke: I got three questions for you left. What do your parents think of you and your relationship with DMT? Do they get it at all? They have to see the changes in you, right?

[02:26:17] Adam: Absolutely. My mother, I think, and my father now, I have to include him in this conversation where before we just always cut him out. I don't think my mom has any interest in doing DMT, nor do I think she needs it. I think she's pretty grounded. She has a good life. I think she's accomplished quite a bit.

[02:26:34] But I think what she does is when she goes gets her hair done, and she's talking to the hairdresser, who's sitting next to the other lady who's sitting next to the other lady, now my mom is going there being educated about DMT, about plant-based medicines, about mental health. And so they're an advocate for DMT just as much as I am, even though she's never done it.

[02:26:53] But because she can say it saved my son's life. She can say, "My son at 40 years old was an alcoholic, not too nice guy who was probably not going to be here.” [Inaudible]. To, “Oh, this is my Adam. Look at him." So they get it. They understand it. They support it.

[02:27:09] And even with the conflict and shit that I had with my dad just a couple of weeks ago in a fight, he said this to me-- these are my fights-- that I know you're a great man and I know you're doing great things, and I know you're really trying to help people. I just don't want you help.

[02:27:22] That was one of the things he said to me, which was a little bit tough. But even through all of the shit that him and I are going through, no. So to answer your question, they understand it, they appreciate it, they know it's not for everybody, but they also know that if it is for that right person, that it can change and save lives.

[02:27:40] So they're on board and they support. And I don't know if I'm putting her under the bus here, but the first time I made ayahuasca in my mom's kitchen, she was stirring the pot with me. So it's like me and my mom. But now how great is that to put that type of energy into your DMT brew, making it with your mom in your mom's kitchen with love as opposed to who knows where and what?

[02:28:01] Luke: Humans have been doing that together for a long-ass time. Okay, question two of three. I'm saving the best one for last. Tell me a little bit about what you saw or didn't see with Danny-- what's his last name?

[02:28:19] Adam: Goler.

[02:28:20] Luke: Goler. And we'll put a link to his work in the show notes. But the stuff he's doing with DMT and lasers is really interesting to me. So without me explaining it, maybe just preface what his research is doing and what your experience of that was like.

[02:28:37] Adam: So anybody looking up DMT, even just a cursory Google search, typically the DMT laser experiment is rapidly coming to the top of that discussion. And so I've befriended him, speaking with him a couple of times this week together. Before I mention him and the laser, I do want to mention anybody that's listened to his personal story, he sounds very similar to what I'm saying.

[02:29:04] So as much as it's, yes, the laser, and look what I found, it's about love. It's about connection. He's doing it for all the right reasons, and he's authentic and genuine in the way that it's changed his life and his connection with other people. So anybody that knows him or talks about him, as much as a lot of the focus is on the laser, he's way more than a one-trick pony, and he's way greater than that laser story.

[02:29:28] He really has used it to change his perspective on life. But basically what he saw or found is that if you shine a diffracted laser, so not like a pinpoint or like a thin, thin one, but typically it's expanded out over about an inch and a half, that in altered or elevated states of DMT, your brain somehow allows a code or an image to be coming out of that laser space.

[02:29:54] Now, similar to when I went to Monroe, I wanted to call bullshit. It's like, eh. If there's anybody that knows DMT, it's me. If there's anybody that has an authentic bullshit filter, it's me. So I did it originally to be like-- not that I was going to cause shit and say, I don't know, I didn't see it. But I did see it, which means it changed everything in how I'm trying to maybe not necessarily help him promote what he's talking about, but to say that this is indeed what happened.

[02:30:22] So my interpretation and what I saw and what he's saying is that-- let me backtrack. When you're in the DMT space, typically everything is moving and shifting and spinning, and there's defined edges, but there's no 90-degree angles. There's no rigidity. Everything is fluid in motion and dynamic.

[02:30:43] And just the dimensional space is moving. Within the laser itself, if you ever just pull the laser and hit a smoke in it, or even just the dust particles in the air, the laser itself is extremely dynamic with all these swirling little parts to it. There's a lot of movement. When you see the code come out-- so it is a raining code, and so it is trickling down, and the symbols do shift and move.

[02:31:10] But what really stood out to me was the grid work that the code is embedded in is rigid. It's embedded in not the laser, not the wall, not your eyes, not your consciousness. If you move your head up and down, if you move the laser, if you move any perspective, that grid work that the code is in stays there and is there independent of any other factors. So that to me was the what the fuck.

[02:31:33] Luke: So it's a fixed pattern.

[02:31:35] Adam: The grid work--

[02:31:37] Luke: The grid itself is fixed, not the content of the grid.

[02:31:40] Adam: Not the content. The content is microscopic, very tiny, constantly moving and constantly spinning and morphing. So that's where a lot of people say, well, what is it? Draw the symbols. And actually, I have a video on my YouTube channel where I actually did draw original symbols where I was trying to dictate it.

[02:31:56] But I'm not saying it's the code reality. I'm not saying it's some matrix code. I'm not saying it's computer generated. I'm not saying that I have any way of interpreting it. All I'm saying is that the hundreds of times that I've been in the DMT space, there hasn't been one thing that's been rigid, fixed, or clearly there that's not in some ethereal space where the grid work that the code is in seems to be all those things that I just said.

[02:32:25] The rigidity, the 90-degree angles, the set size, the stationary aspect of the grid itself. So that's where I am really interested in exploring it further to, is there an actual code? Are there symbols that can be translated? Is there actually information that can be pulled from it?

[02:32:45] But I have no doubt or no question that there is a code there, that there is something beyond what is happening in our individual consciousness. There is something that we're all seeing.

[02:32:57] Luke: Having hundreds of people seen the same thing--

[02:32:59] Adam: Thousands. Yeah.

[02:33:01] Luke: Thousands? Crazy.

[02:33:01] Adam: And not to say there's some people with-- I like to think I have credibility. If you look at his website, some of his interviews, one guy who's really popular now, Chase Hughes, he's been on a bunch of podcasts, and he's the guy that does psychological training for the army and stuff. And he's been somebody that's come out that's said the same thing.

[02:33:19] Like, I don't know what it is, but it's there and I've seen it. And there are people that really their reputation is being put on the line to say this is what's going on. Yeah. So what it is, I don't know. What the code is saying, I don't know. But is there a code that's there? Yes. Is it independent of anything that I've ever seen in any other DMT space or in my consciousness? Yes. And I will continue to explore it.

[02:33:43] Luke: So fascinating. Anyone that's taken any psychedelic, you know when you open your eyes, there's nothing uniform about anything. It's like all of the right angles in this room, everything in this room, if we were on a big hit of DMT right now, it'd be nothing that makes any sense.

[02:34:01] Everything starts to degrade, if anything. It doesn't become more ordered. Maybe in nature sometimes, you look at a tree and you see an order that wasn't there, but it's still not fixed. Everything is so fluid and malleable. That's what is super trippy about that particular experience to me.

[02:34:20] Adam: And if you shine out of the wall and then move from here to there or down, it stays there. If you're on shrooms and you're like, "Oh, look at the whales swimming across the room. Oh, it's on the ceiling. Oh look, it's in the ground. It's all changing where this is, no, that right there.

[02:34:35] And to your point too, a lot of people see weird symbols in language. I'm actually reading a book right now, Xenolinguistics, I believe is the name of it. It was a woman that wrote it about 15 years ago where it's a whole language that she saw on one of her psychedelic trips and put this whole really cool book together.

[02:34:58] I don't think he's the first person to say like, "Oh shit, I'm seeing something." But I think he's the first person to put-- seeing it in a laser like that somehow is allowing it to come through. And part of my video that I explained, because for some people-- and he uses the analogy of the Magic Eye books from back in the day where you'd look-- so you look at it then--

[02:35:20] Luke: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[02:35:21] Adam: Then you have to like look through it and the image would pop out. It's similar to that. So if you just look at the surface, it's not there. It's in between layers, in depth, in the surface. And it's only until you let your eyes relax and not look for it, that it's able to pop through. And for me, it took, I don't want to say a long time. It took several minutes, which I guess is not that long, but it wasn't like shine the laser of smoke DMT and oh, there it is.

[02:35:49] I did have to do a little bit of searching and seeking and manipulation of my eyes, my eyelashes, the muscles in my eyes. But as soon as I did that, and once again, once that popped out, now I can see it every time. It's pretty easy to look for it.

[02:36:03] Luke: How big of a dose are we talking?

[02:36:05] Adam: Small.

[02:36:06] Luke: You can do it with a small dose?

[02:36:07] Adam: Yeah. So if anything, my first session when I tried to do the laser, similar to my first time when I tried to have sex on DMT, it was just too much and overwhelmed and not happening. So the first time I set the laser up, I had my pen. I'm all good. I didn't have a pen. I had a bowl the first time.

[02:36:24] I took too big of a rip and it was just like, I'm not sitting up staring at anything. But luckily, I had my pillow in my blanket right there, so I just laid down, and I was just like, "No, I'm just going to enjoy this one."

[02:36:36] So I rode it out for whatever, five or six minutes, and then next time I did a little bit of a smaller hit. But yeah, finding that fine line of increasing the sensitivity and volume of your senses enough to have it come out, but not being so overwhelmed where you're just blasted off and not in control.

[02:36:53] So that's where there's that a little bit of practice that comes into it. There's quite a few people now talking about their methods of seeing that code, but I haven't heard one person who really knows what they're doing with DMT as well as in looking at that laser that haven't seen it. So I'm not just the lone wolf in my inner circle. Everybody else has seen the same thing.

[02:37:15] Luke: Something that's been really interesting about that, and I was in touch with Danny about doing a podcast, so that'll probably happen at some point. But what's really interesting to me, seeing sometimes when he'll post is how triggered some people are by what he's seen. It's this strange cognitive dissonance thing where people are attacking him--

[02:37:40] Adam: Oh, I get attacked all the time.

[02:37:41] Luke: For what he's seen. Oh, yeah. It's easy for you to say. You're on drugs. But it's like with a real vitriol behind it. Like, who cares what this guy's doing, if it's real or if it's not? It doesn't bother me either way.

[02:37:53] Adam: Why are you watching the video? Do something else.

[02:37:55] Luke: Yeah, it's trippy. I wonder what it is about the human psyche. My guess would be that it's like when you've built a model of reality and accepted it as it is and someone over here is potentially disrupting your model of reality even if you haven't done it, I don't know, it must be threatening to someone's identity or worldview in a way that's really strange to me.

[02:38:23] Adam: I don't even comment. I've had comments where you're just seeing dust on your eyeballs or the laser must be from China, so that's Chinese characters embedded in the laser. And it's just like, so you've clearly never done DMT. You've clearly never looked at this laser.

[02:38:42] I don't even give those people the time of day because I engage quite a bit with the people that are being authentic and genuine. And even the naysayers. Or some people will say something not negative, but in a way that maybe goes against what I'm trying to say, but does it in an intelligent, honest way where you can tell they're not just trolling and being jerks.

[02:39:03] And I'll spend as much time as I can with them to-- and even just thanks for your perspective and input. I'll use that next time. But yes, there are a lot of people that-- but you want to pull the Terence McKenna line where it's like anybody that thinks you're bullshitting, that you're making it up, all right, go take four hits of DMT yourself and tell me that I'm making it up.

[02:39:24] But you don't have the balls to do that, so keep talking shit from afar. But it's like, if you do have the balls to do that, then we'll be able to talk on the same level.

[02:39:32] Luke: When I have seen those comments, it's always pretty clear to me that the people that seem to be agitated by that don't have any experience in that realm. Because if you did, you would know that anything's possible. And that reality is so--

[02:39:48] Adam: There's nothing off limit.

[02:39:29] Luke: Yeah. It's like, what is even reality? Right?

[02:39:53] Adam: Yeah.

[02:39:53] Luke: I thought I had one more question, but then another one came in really quick, and that is going back to, in terms of smoking DMT and the thresholds we were talking about. When I've heard some people describe it, they've described it more like the 5-MeO-DMT situation where you have a torch and a proper glass pipe, a free-base set-up.

[02:40:22] And people that have described smoking DMT in that way describe it in a way that sounds very much like the 5-MEO experience where the witness-observer-experiencer for a short time is completely out of the picture and you're not even there. You can't see. You can't hear. You wouldn't know if someone's shaking you, tapping you.

[02:40:43] It's a complete merging with the totality of consciousness briefly. And then on the way back out of it, then it's like some visuals and you know that you're a you and you have a body, but there's a point at which it's just complete obliteration. Have you smoked DMT in that way, like the complete whiteout, just [Inaudible], everything's gone kind of thing?

[02:41:08] Adam: Yeah. And I don't know if everybody smokes weed like I do, but you could-- imagine taking a small joint and just taking a little [Inaudible]. That's one hit. Or you can take a three-foot bong, fill it with a completely chalky yellow thing and then clear the whole tube.

[02:41:24] So clearly a complete difference of the amount that you're taking in. So same thing with DMT. You can do a little half hit, but if you fully rip it-- so I did that one time, and that was the intent where I-- and I never typically weigh out the dosage.

[02:41:40] I put a good amount on and I burn it until I don't want to do it anymore. But I took one hit and the plan was just roster it, burn it, take as big, deep, long a hit as you can. And then the plan, like always, was try to do three, four, push it if you can go five. This one hit was because I took probably more in that one long, just [Inaudible], long, long, long, long.

[02:42:05] And then I probably would've done in five medium-sized regular hits. I couldn't even put down the bowl. Luckily my girlfriend was there that time, and she took it from me and it was just instant slingshot, the blast off into whatever realm it was. And that was really the only time I've ever had that experience though, and I've tried to replicate it because it was really like, oh shit.

[02:42:28] And if you can get that without having to go through the three or four hits, which are challenging. But it really is so different each time that you can become a little bit familiar navigating it, but it really depends on a lot of variables that I'm just trying to figure out. Maybe on that note too, people have talked about it, about being locked out of the space.

[02:42:51] A while back, I don't want to say I got cocky or arrogant, but I started going in there demanding answers, like, I want to know this. I want access to this. And being like, "Oh, I'm the DMT guy. I'm coming here for information." I was not let in. I would take three, four big hits, no vibratory hum, no sensations, no whatever.

[02:43:11] And I remember being like, how is this possible? This is pure DMT that I'm-- and I had about three times that I did that over the course of about a month, and nothing. And then I realized, I think I lost a little respect and reverence, and I went in there with a little human attitude. And I did a pretty significant apology session or I gave, I'm sorry. My bad. Can I please be invited back into the group, so to speak?

[02:43:40] And then I did it, and then I was able to go back in. And I remember Alicia was with me at that time, and I just looked at it being like, they let me back in. Oh, they let me back in. Because I was so distraught. I didn't think I'd ever be able to go back to that space.

[02:43:54] So it's not just a simple of each person was going to have the same experience with this amount of dose, or if you use a free-base bowl or a regular bowl. I've had massive, massive breakthroughs on a vape pen with a battery, and I've had, again, blockouts where I couldn't get into it when I was just roasting it by itself.

[02:44:15] So I think what I would suggest if somebody's interested in doing it is to play with it, to know that it's going to be different and unique for each person. And again, at your own pace, and cautious about how I say it like this, but if anybody is interested in potentially doing their own batch literally $150 worth of material will give you a lifetime supply.

[02:44:39] So it's never a matter of cost or it's never a matter of having enough. It's like if you do one batch, you're going to have enough that you'll need forever. So you have the ability to play with it, which is something I think is important too, because the fact that this isn't cost prohibitive and it's a lifetime supply is something that people should know. I've never come across one person that sells DMT. I've never come across one person that profits from it or tries to monetize it.

[02:45:08] Luke: I haven't either, actually. I never thought about that.

[02:45:10] Adam: They all give it away.

[02:45:11] Luke: Huh.

[02:45:12] Adam: Because it costs nothing to make. They only give it away. So even that, I don't sit with anybody. I don't offer my services. I have shared it with a couple of people, and it's because they got brought into my life, and it was energetic mixing. Anybody that has access to this feels honored to give it and to share it for free and almost would feel dirty taking money from it. So that's something that's really neat about this molecule too, is that money is not even remotely part of the equation.

[02:45:43] Luke: Wow. Two hours and 46 minutes is probably not the right time to bring my last question into the conversation.

[02:45:50] Adam: But how fucked that it went that easy and so smooth.

[02:45:52] Luke: Flow state, baby. It's all the DMT we took before we recorded.

[02:45:56] Adam: Yeah, the rips.

[02:45:57] Luke: It's just wearing off, I think. In your book you talk about transcendent sexual experiences with your girlfriend on DMT, and I think-- I don't know if it was a book or one of the podcasts I was listening to, and you told the story that you just alluded to before where nothing was working the first time you tried it.

[02:46:17] But I'm just thinking like that type of experience to me seems so far away in any psychedelic work I've done. Just like intimacy, sure. But mixing sex and psychedelics to me is so counterintuitive. I'm sure I have a couple of times, but not with any real practice associated with it.

[02:46:42] And again, I know we've been going for a while, but maybe a summary of what that's like. It's unimaginable to me. I'm just like, what? Especially with something that strong. Like, oh, a little bit of mushrooms, you get a little frisky or something like that. But I DMT? I'm just like, what? It's fascinating to me.

[02:47:03] Adam: And I go over my book about my first experience to let people know this isn't, oh wow, this guy's freaking great. He can just handle all this DMT. My first session with sex and DMT did not go as planned.

[02:47:14] Luke: It was in the book when you [Inaudible]. You were underperforming physically.

[02:47:19] Adam: Basically, the climax of sex, right before you're about to orgasm, the plan was then to take several hits of DMT and to try to time the explosion of DMT with the explosion of the intimacy. So we're at that point, and so I was like, "All right, cool. I'm ready to take my DMT hit."

[02:47:39] And it just went from all the blood was below my waist, instantly to my head, and it was just like, whoa, shit. The last thing I could possibly focus about was performing or even finishing. So it was just same thing with the laser thing. It was, "Oh shit, I've got to ride this out."

[02:47:55] But luckily, and this is massive, if you can have somebody that has your back and you feel comfortable with-- she knew exactly what to do, which was just hold me, support me, know that that was what was supposed to happen at that time. But then we came out after it being like, all right, let's try a plan B. That probably isn't going to work.

[02:48:15] But before talking about the plan B, you can imagine the communication and conversation that a couple could have after an experience like that. So you're naked, you're vulnerable, but now you've just exposed your consciousness, your psyche. The connection and openness that I have with this woman because of those experiences are phenomenal.

[02:48:39] Again, I didn't feel bad. I didn't feel ashamed. If anything, she was just, I love you even more. Hold me, love me, and whatever. And beauty of DMT is seven minutes later you get back to it and we were able to do what we needed to do.

[02:48:54] But that changed to, how do we use this? Because I know that it heightens your senses. I know that it will increase-- typically whatever sensation or emotion you're having, it's going to make that much greater. So if you're in ecstatic bliss, if you're physiologically excited, in theory, you should be able to multiply that, and you can, and you do.

[02:49:14] It was just a matter of smaller doses. And I think that that's where, again, do you have one drink or do you drink the whole bottle? So if you're trying to prolong it, what we did was then-- really, we had a vape pen, and we do quite often where take one hit and then pass it to the other partner.

[02:49:32] And then when the timing's needed you, you're just riding that line. Similar with tantric sex. It's not about the end result. It's about throttling it and then feeling comfortable pushing a little further and then pushing it.

[02:49:45] So we have, I would say, two main ways of using it in intimacy, where we both do it at the same time and we're just passing it back and forth and keeping this vibratory hum at a consistent, but also low level. But then there's a beautiful aspect to it where one person goes and goes really deep and the other person services them.

[02:50:07] So that's going to be different for each couple. But you can imagine I'm laying there in my bed. Everything's beautiful. I've got this beautiful woman. I just take my three or four hits of DMT, and now she's doing all the things that I like sexually to me, which is, again, going to be different for everybody else.

[02:50:22] Or even I'll go really, really deep and I'll do things with her that excite me and I'll focus-- so it's either doing it together and there's a swirling dance, or one person is doing the medicine and the other person, their whole intention is to give love and physical pleasure, but it's collaborative and communicative.

[02:50:42] And that's going to change. It's not like, I always want this way this time. I think psychedelics allow for that flow in ebb. And we've had now countless sessions that have lasted hours and hours of this beautiful dance back and forth. So DMT and sex can be worked in, and then the communication and the connection afterwards is just absolutely amazing.

[02:51:04] But I'd be remiss if we're talking about sex and psychedelics-- sex and shrooms for me, that would be the way to go if you're trying to do the 3, 4, 5, 8-hour. We've had some incredible like it starts light and then it's almost like the next day where it's like, holy shit, how did that pass?

[02:51:23] Because in my opinion, with shrooms, whatever mindset you're going to be in, you're locked in. And if you can get into that state of locked in but not looking to climax or looking to end it, but looking to prolong it, it becomes very easy. And without being too descriptive, you can either get off once or get off 10 times.

[02:51:50] You can get off in a minute or in 10 hours. You are in control of it because you have that mind-body connection where you're just absolutely there dialed in. And if you can get into that shroom state, for me it's typically one to two, two and a half grams where it's deep but not too, that's when I am the master of my body and I can do whatever the fuck I want for as long as I want, which means she can have a hell of a night too.

[02:52:17] And that's something now that we've really worked into our-- and it's more than just ecstatic sex and, yeah, we can have prolonged and we're going to whatever. It's the hugging and snuggling afterwards.

[02:52:29] It's the morning after when you're sitting there and you've just realized that you had eight hours with a person that intense where-- how do you come out of that and then fight and bitch about the normal stuff that couples do or to get mad at her over the toothpaste on the counter, or the hair in the sink or whatever.

[02:52:47] It's like, no. What we just experienced, we are good. There's very, very few things that this woman can do that would ever get me in a way that I would even get mad or triggered at all. Because what we've experienced together is so beyond anything on this surface planet level of ego, being butt hurt, where it's just like, wow, no, we've truly-- and that's why I tell her, that we truly had transcendental sex. We did something that goes beyond normal physicality, and that's attainable.

[02:53:18] Luke: Beyond normal intimacy. Because there's physical intimacy, emotional intimacy, a bunch of other kinds. But I'm imagining that to be the maximum of all intimacy.

[02:53:32] Adam: You're locked in. You're looking deep into their soul. And again, your, your physical bodies are singing and dancing and playing together, but so are your spiritual body, so are your emotional body, so are your-- there's just so many layers to it. And if you're both doing at the same time, they're both interacting.

[02:53:51] So it's not just like, well, I'm really high and tripped out and I'm just having a hell of a time with my girlfriend. Those levels, the spiritual bodies are having sex in addition to this, and they're having their own communication level. And again, you come down from that, you're going to have a hell of a connection.

[02:54:07] Luke: Wow. Going to put the divorce lawyers out of business.

[02:54:11] Adam: Or to know, this isn't the person I need to be with. Let's split and have a different chapter in our life, and I love you, and I wish you well, and move forward. I think that that's a big part of psychedelics. And you mentioned something too. People don't want to have that mirror held up to them.

[02:54:26] And if they're not ready for it, and I've warned people, you may do heavy DMT or shrooms and realize you hate your boss. You never wanted to have kids. You think your wife's a bitch. you never wanted to live in this cold atmosphere. Fuck it. I'm out and I'm buying a motorcycle.

[02:54:42] Hey, that very well may be the message you get, and that may be the path that you need to take. So it's not, whatever your current life is, it'll make that better. It may disrupt the whole thing and throw a complete monkey wrench into it, but that may be the very thing that's needed. And that psychedelics may be the only thing to really--

[02:55:03] Luke: That's a really good point.

[02:55:04] Adam: --lean to your intuition.

[02:55:05] Luke: I've actually had that happen.

[02:55:07] Adam: Yeah, yeah. This is not the person I--

[02:55:08] Luke: Trying to have a experience more that you just described in that moment, having the clarity within myself and then the courage to be honest about what I was clear on. And that was actually a wrap.

[02:55:24] Adam: Yeah. It'll give you the truth, and you just have to be open to what that may mean. Like in my case, the fuck, man. I lost everything. I literally lost everything to where I was living out of my car. I have this picture where-- this is in Northern California-- it's me, my computer. I had a bottle of soda because that was my treat, and I cooked food over a fire.

[02:55:49] And that's all my possessions. I had literally in my fucking car and a picnic table when I had before, multiples of everything, from the kayaks to the garages to all the extra shit. And it's like, I've got a bottle of soda, a tent, and my computer.

[02:56:06] So most people are like, "Really? Psychedelics helped you? They got you out of-- you had everything." It's like, yeah, but look who I was back then. I was the guy with bags under my eyes, miserable, running from everything in my life to who I am now, which is the guy that's spreading a lot of and light and people want to be around.

[02:56:23] And there may be a little bit hiatus in my earning capability, but yeah, that was exactly what needed to happen. Would I have had the balls to walk away from that type of paycheck before? No, because I wouldn't have had the courage, or I wouldn't have had the self-knowledge or self-love.

[02:56:39] You get those things, and you feel comfortable making those hard decisions because all you're answering to is yourself and your gut and your intuition. And that, I think, would do people quite well in today's society when there's so many influences and other third-party people trying to get you to do or act in a way that isn't aligned with what you know your purpose is.

[02:56:56] And psychedelics make you have that truth serum not only with yourself, but with your own God, and with society and with your partners and everybody. And may be painful, but that truth is better than dishonesty and running from it.

[02:57:10] Luke: Beautiful. Last question-- famous last words-- who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and who you are today?

[02:57:21] Adam: First and foremost, my grandfather, David Salois. Him and I share a birthday. I'm one out of 19 grandkids, and my mom's one out of seven kids, and we had that shared birthday. And from day one, he took me under his wing and probably the greatest soul that I've ever been blessed to interact with. So David Salois, my pepe.

[02:57:45] Through my hard journeys, I said to a philosopher that really helped me was Alan Watts. I think his calmness and his self-awareness was somebody that that really helped. And when I referenced my favorite book, I'd often say Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.

[02:58:05] And Napoleon Hill, one of his main concepts was the mastermind group, and that was something that really helped me know that I'm not on this journey alone. And the mastermind group doesn't have to be people that are alive and that people you even know. They can be deceased people. They can be fake people. They can be characters.

[02:58:22] But that concept of creating a group of people that you can bounce things off on and run things by on and that you're not alone was a big shift because I was always the independent guy that, look what I can do. I need no help, and I'm the whatever. I'm the self-contained person, but once I really started embracing the fact that my life is enriched by the help and input of others and by the perspective and the filters-- and that's a big thing, is that I know as much clarity as I have.

[02:58:53] I also respect other people's perspective and filters. And if I trust somebody to be authentic and honest, I really value the perspective that they can give on my life. So yeah, David Salois, Alan Watts, and Napoleon Hill. That part of my mastermind group, so put them up there too.

[02:59:13] Luke: Beautiful, man. Thanks for the work you're doing. Thanks for making the time to come by.

[02:59:18] Adam: My pleasure.

[02:59:19] Luke: It's been an conversation.

[02:59:20] Adam: Been a hell of a journey.

[02:59:21] Luke: Makes me want to grab some of that brew.

[02:59:25] Adam: It's right there. I also say this on every podcast too, but I want to say, if you want to support the book, by all means. But I'll happily send free copies to anybody. I have PDF copies I can easily email. And I have plenty of free promo codes for audio versions. So if anybody wants the message or the information in the book, it's free and accessible. You don't have to pay anything for it. Just email me and I'll get that out there.

[02:59:47] Luke: Awesome, man. Thank you.