269. EMF Solutions! How To Mitigate Cell Phone, WiFi, & Computer Radiation Dangers with Daniel DeBaun

Daniel DeBaun

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

This episode is your ultimate guide to navigating our EMF-ridden world with your health intact, without giving up your cell phone, computer, and internet. Our guest is Daniel DeBaun, EMF expert and co-founder of DefenderShield.

Daniel DeBaun is an internationally recognized expert in EMF radiation, EMF shielding, and EMF-related health issues with special focus on the effect of exposure from mobile devices.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

There are both benefits and drawbacks to our modern society. Air conditioning, the ability to travel across the world in a single day, access to nearly all of human knowledge in the palm of your hand: that’s all pretty awesome. But we’re making a lot of tradeoffs to be able to do all of that — or, more accurately, multinational corporations are choosing to trade our health and our planet’s health for the ability to sell you some of those things.

One of the most potentially damaging aspects of our society is the sheer magnitude of electromagnetic frequencies (EMFs) we’re blasting through the air and through our bodies, and this is only getting worse as the world begins rolling out 5G and people start connecting more and more parts of their homes to WiFi.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying we have to choose between technological advancement and being healthy — but if we don’t arm ourselves with knowledge about what these new technologies can do to our health, we could be putting ourselves and our family at a lot of risk.

So I sat down with Daniel DeBaun, an internationally recognized expert on EMF-related health issues, co-founder of DefenderShield, and co-author of Radiation Nation – Complete Guide Book to EMF Protection & Safety. This episode is your ultimate guide to navigating our EMF-ridden world with your health intact, without giving up your cell phone, computer, and internet. There’s a lot we can’t control, like where cell towers are being built, but we can control how we’re affected by our personal wireless devices and the electronic devices in our home.

If, after listening to this episode, you’re ready to take some action to make your home and travel safer — especially since you’re probably going to be spending more time at home than usual for the foreseeable future — you can get 20% off DefenderShield’s EMF-shielding solutions by using code LIFESTYLIST at DefenderShield.com.

13:30 — Why Daniel dedicated his life to EMF education and protection 

  • Research about the risks of EMF radiation go back to the 60s and 70s
  • The first EMF-shielding prototype that Daniel built

16:40 — The different types of EMF radiation

  • High-frequency signals Vs. Low-frequency signals
  • How these signals affect us differently, and from different proximities
  • Why it’s 3-4x more dangerous for children to use wireless devices than adults
  • The fine line between awareness and fear

27:10 — Why the current safety standards for EMF are vastly insufficient

  • How the standard for cell phone frequencies was established using their effects on six-foot-tall males
  • There’s no regulation for the radiation that comes out of the devices
  • The new dangers introduced by 5G
  • Why being near a 5G cell tower is worse than a 4G cell tower

38:35 — Commercial and military use of millimeter wave technology

52:10 — Protecting yourself and your family from the EMFs in your home (when you don’t own your home)

  • First thing’s first: don’t panic!
  • Use ethernet over WiFi whenever you can
  • Somavedic
  • Blushield
  • Protecting yourself from your phone using the DefenderShield phone case and wallet (something I want on me all the time now)
  • Put your WiFi and other devices on a timer
  • Think about where you put your router in your home
  • “One bee won’t kill you — one thousand will”
  • How to protect yourself from bedside tech devices

01:00:38 — More strategies for protecting yourself from your devices, at home and on the go

  • While devices like your laptop are plugged in, the frequencies coming out of them are more harmful
  • Protecting your private bits from your laptop using DefenderShield
  • Computer setups and accessory alternatives that make using a computer safer
  • Why you should never use Bluetooth headsets or Bluetooth anything on your head for extended periods of time
  • Which part of the phone produces the most EMFs
  • Do the harmonizing stickers you can put on your phone to protect yourself from EMF radiation really work?
  • Balancing awareness with fear and paranoia
  • Annie Hopper’s DNRS course
  • Brain Tap

01:28:52 — Why Daniel started Defender Shield and what you can expect from their products

  • The teenage girl who inspired the first cell phone shield
  • A new headset designed to help autistic individuals
  • The grounded, shielding blanket that I bring onto planes
  • You can get 20% off DefenderShield’s EMF-shielding solutions by using code LIFESTYLIST at DefenderShield.com

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

[00:00:00] Luke Storey:  Daniel, welcome to the show, dude. I'm really excited to talk to you today. 

[00:00:08]Daniel DeBaun:  Luke, I appreciate you giving me a call back and following up from last time we talked. 

[00:00:13]Luke Storey:  Yeah, me, too. So-

[00:00:14]Daniel DeBaun:  It was one of the best podcasts I ever did. 

[00:00:17]Luke Storey:  Second time's a charm, we can only hope. And what he's referring to, those of you listening to the podcast is we recorded about a month ago and we went for like an-hour-and-a-half, man, and we covered everything you could ever want to know about EMS as they pertain to your personal devices, et cetera. And we were both like, yes, like doing the virtual high-five afterward. And then, when I went to download the files, which I do a backup, that's what's funny, I do the video on Skype, and then I have an app called Zencastr, which captures the audio, and all four files, because there are two files, you know—there are two people, so there are two files, all four files were corrupt and unlistenable. 

[00:00:56] So, I sent them to my producers at Crate Media and I was like, “Can you guys salvage this?” And they're like, “Honestly, it's not even listenable to us. And, you know, so, the audience would never approve of this. So, you know, that was a trial run. We're going to do it again and, you know, maybe we can—we might even be more focused today giving it a second shot. 

[00:01:15]Daniel DeBaun:  Well, thanks so much for inviting me again, Luke. I appreciate it.

[00:01:18]Luke Storey:  I'm stoked, man. 

[00:01:19]Daniel DeBaun:  I appreciate it.

[00:01:19]Luke Storey:  I'm stoked because EMF in general are a topic that I'm really excited to share information about. And more so, specifically, what we're going to be covering, of course, is—I mean, we're going to dip into some different areas of EMF, but essentially, you know, how they relate to our devices, because I think that's the thing that we have a really hard time getting away from. 

[00:01:38]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:01:39]Luke Storey:  If you find that you're living next to a cell tower or you've got a, you know, wall of smart meters on your house, you have the ability to move away from that to some degree. 

[00:01:48]Daniel DeBaun:  Right. Right.

[00:01:49]Luke Storey:  But I don't think any of us are willing to not have a laptop or a cell phone or a tablet or something, so I've been kind of like struggling with, “Well, how do I keep my devices and use this technology without, you know, harming myself?” So, I'm stoked. So, you've been in the game for a long, long time now. You've written a book, which is a really great, simple read for those listening called radiation nation, the fallout of modern technology. And I'm just—if you could give me like the truncated version of how you got into the industry of EMF protection in the first place, what's your background? 

[00:02:25]Daniel DeBaun:  Sure. For 20 years or so, I ran the technical laboratories for the Bell System, on electronics, all the infrastructure used to communicate phone calls for all these years. I ran technical laboratories for this stuff. So, I had a lot of background from Bell Labs and subsequent companies that do that work. And, oh, seven years ago, so my sons were visiting, they’re dull men and they were typing away on their laptops, but always at a time, and my wife says to me, “That can't be good for them. That's the electronic stuff that's close, and I want grandchildren, this can't be good.” 

[00:03:12] And I said, “You don't know what you're talking about. This is low-level energy. There's no way this is ever going to hurt you.” But I said, “Okay, let me look into it a little bit.” So, I looked onto the medical side, the research side of this stuff, which is quite a lot, and been going on for since the ‘60s, ‘70s. And I found that even back then, we knew that after about three or four hours, 25% of the male sperm is immobile. So, it definitely affects the body. And as you pointed out, you're not going to throw your technology away, neither are my boys. 

[00:03:48] So, I said, “Well, what can I do?” And I said, well, “I can shield it. I can stop the signals that are closest to the body.” And by doing that, I removed most of the harm potentially from those transmissions. So, I built a prototype because I'm a mechanical engineer as well. And so, I built a prototype for them. Their friends liked it, so I built a couple more for their friends, and then it became a nightmare. I kept on going with this and building more and more products that are designed to fix the stuff you don't want to throw away from protecting you when you use it. 

[00:04:29]Luke Storey:  Right. So, can you describe the different types of EMF that we're dealing with when it comes to devices? Because, you know, I think a lot of people just think it's the RF that's—you know, the signal that's coming from our phone or our laptop using wi-fi, but there's a few other things that these devices to be emitting.

[00:04:48]Daniel DeBaun:  Oh, yeah. So, Luke, when you were talking about at the introduction, you mentioned something about smart meters and you were saying like, you know, we can find ways of fixing that. Well, there are two aspects of a smart meter you worry about. The RF, the radio frequency signal, and then there's also the extremely low frequency signal, the byproduct of electronic running through the wires is 60 hertz emissions that are coming out of your walls. It's coming out of your microwave oven, your toaster, your hair dryer. There are emissions coming out of that. When you're really close to that stuff that is as dangerous as radio frequency stuff, but it's different because it's a different spectrum. 

[00:05:46] Radio frequency, as you may remember, is typically around two gigahertz. The ELF is around 60 hertz. So, it's much, much lower, but it still can interfere with the body. And so, those fundamentally do different things. It's also true that with RF, many people don't realize, it's a microwave signal. In other words, you have a microwave that operates at 2.3 gigahertz. Your cellphone is about two gigahertz. They're almost the same thing. But guess what, it's still a microwave signal. It's a thermal emitting signal that can damage the body. So, those are the two different types to be worried about. 

[00:06:36]Luke Storey:  I remember a few years ago when I first started going down the rabbit hole with EMFs and stuff, there were these videos, they're probably still on there, and guys writing my show notes, if you can find these videos, they're fascinating. But there was one in particular where they took an egg and they put an egg on a little pedestal, and then they put two cell phones calling each other on either side of the egg and it cooked the freaking egg. 

[00:06:58]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah, right, actually. 

[00:07:00]Luke Storey:  Have you seen that? 

[00:07:01]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. That's because it's a thermal limiting signal. That's why. In fact, with a cellphone, they restrict the amplitude of the signal, so it doesn't fry the center of your or your brain. But guess what, as an adult like you, it maybe goes in one inch and it heats up the shelves around your head as much as two degrees. If you're a child, it goes completely through your head, doing the same thing. It's heating up to cells, but more importantly, there's a lot of biological impacts to that as well. 

[00:07:38]Luke Storey:  And I'm assuming it's worse for kids because their skull is so much thinner, right? 

[00:07:44]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. The soft tissue, the softer it is, the more susceptible it is. So, it's kids, very, very young kids, they're like three, four, five times—it's three or four, five times more dangerous for them to use it than it is for an adult male. 

[00:08:03]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I always kind of cringe, you know, when I see, a well-meaning parent with their kid with a tablet or an iPhone or something that's sitting on their lap or they have it up in their face, it's like so tempting to politely say, “Hey, you might not be aware of this, but there are some facts.” You know, it's funny. I've told this story so many times on my podcast, so regular listeners, forgive me for flogging a dead horse here, but I've been so EMF-aware because of seeing videos like the egg getting fried. 

[00:08:34] From that point on, I use a speakerphone—I mean, I don't think I've ever put my phone to my head except maybe getting an Uber at the airport or like in an emergency situation where I couldn't use speakerphone. Now, I can because I've got your DefenderShield. So, if it gets loud, I do. But still, I tend to use the speaker phone. But when I started becoming aware of this, unknowingly, I was living in an apartment here in LA that was about 100 yards across from two giant cell towers. 

[00:09:03]Daniel DeBaun:  Wow. 

[00:09:04]Luke Storey:  The multi-tower ones, but they were hidden by this sort of facade of a wall. And I was living there for three years and I started having all of these horrific symptoms. My eyes went bad. I started having to wear glasses. Just incredible brain fog to the point where, I mean, sometimes, I just couldn't even work. I'd have interviews like this and I'd really—people didn't know, but I was struggling to even put a sentence together. And woke up with severe headaches every day. Just, you know, on and on. 

[00:09:30] Got colds and flus, which I haven't—you know, I've been healthy for so long. I haven't—there was years where I didn't get a cold or a flu. Anyway, I had all these symptoms. And then, eventually, I figured out by investigating the building across the street accidentally or not, maybe perhaps it was the unseen hand that was guiding me over there to see it. But, you know, instantly, I started looking for a place to live and I moved into this house, which is in the Hills and has, you know, no cell service, which, you know, has its own challenges that I found out. 

[00:10:01] But anyway, what I did is when I moved out, you know, I emailed the other three tenants in that fourplex and I said, you know, “I'm not trying to be a tinfoil hat guy here and I don't want to instill fear in you, but I would be remised to not let you know why I just suddenly moved out. And, you know, take the information and do with it what you will.” But I sent them a photograph of our building, including those two cell towers with a couple of arrows pointing to where they were, and then links to a few studies and videos and stuff. 

[00:10:30] And I said, “Hey, just so you're aware, you know, some people are more sensitive than others. I think I'm one of those.” And not one of them emailed me back, you know. And so, I was like, “Well, at least, I did my job.” And then, the lady that moved in after me, she started getting my mail and I thought, “Well, I could send her that email.” I said, “You know what, it's like—it's none of my business. I don't want to freak people out. None of the other tenants answered my emails. So, maybe this is just my thing.” 

[00:10:57]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. 

[00:10:58]Luke Storey:  A couple of days ago anyway, she found another package for me and I moved out almost a year ago, and I thought, God, what a sweet lady. You know, she could just throw them in the garbage, but she emails me and says, “Hey, there's a package here on the porch.” So, I sent her that email and just said, “Hey, you know, not trying to be weird here, but I thought you should know.” And she emailed back and she was like, “Yeah, I'm very aware of EMFs, but you know what, I like living in the city and I don't care.” 

[00:11:24]Daniel DeBaun:  Right. 

[00:11:24]Luke Storey:  And so, it's like, you know, those types of situations helped me to realize it's not my job to go around and be the EMF police. Even when I see a kid with a cell phone on their head, it's like that's their karma, their journey. And I guess my work is interviewing people like you and building the awareness without instilling fear. And so, that brings me to my next question just on the psychological front. If we're knowing that women that keep cellphones in their bras get breast cancer in short order and men, their sperm gets immobilized from having a laptop on their junk and all of this, you know, where's the fine line between awareness and walking around with anxiety and fear about these things being in our environment? 

[00:12:05] So, when we talk about these devices, there is a lot of different ways you can minimize dangers, very simple things. And we're going to get into more detail about those kinds of things. The simple things you can do that eliminates much of the concerns. But there were some very important things you were mentioning. You had fog, foggy thinking, you maybe had headaches. Those are electromagnetic radiation hypersensitivity responses to exposures. You're a canary in the coal mine to some extent. 

[00:12:49] There's over 20% of the population that we know is hypersensitive. Yours is a little bit more than the average, but it can get extremely worse in time. So, hypersensitivity is a really sort of big deal when you talk about this stuff, even more so than the linkage of cancer related to these kinds of things. Like for example, a frontal lobe cancer has increased 2% over the last 10 years, compounding over 10 years. Frontal lobe. Well, that's what you would expect to see because that's the surface part of the brain tissue that is most impacted by cellphone. 

[00:13:36] And we'll talk a little bit more about that, but in general, you're really more worried about your stuff than you are worried about cancer in a sense because it's debilitating and it can be extremely debilitating. And so, when you have a cancer description of a cellphone on a breast, for example, there's virtually no question about it. There's a direct correlation to the cancer in the breast from the transmitting cellphone. If you're a woman in the first trimester at San Francisco a couple of years ago, they gave RF meters to a bunch of women in their first trimester. 

[00:14:18] And what they found was the high levels of exposure. Those who were in the high levels of exposure were three times more likely to have a miscarriage. And so, there is no doubt under high long-term exposure periods, there can be pretty serious consequences. But in the—and we know that there is clear scientific evidence, replicated evidence through multiple studies, well-written studies, well-structured studies that show pretty serious damaging long-term exposures kind of conditions.

[00:15:01] In terms of the regulatory agencies that implement safety standards, give us a bit of background on, you know, when the laws were created and how they're so terribly outdated. You know, I don't know the data on that, but I've heard you talk about that before. It's like, you know, we're going off cellphone studies from 1973 or, you know, it's like—it seems to be that it's kind of a fox in the henhouse situation, where you have—similar to, you have like—at the FDA, you have X heads of Monsanto and, you know, there's all this pay for plague kind of funky stuff going on. So, what's going on with the FCC or other regulatory agencies that should be protecting the populace, but are not because they're perhaps in bed with some of the tech companies, et cetera?

[00:15:51]Daniel DeBaun:  Right. So, I'll refer to—I'll start off by talking a little bit about the standard. Over 30 years ago, cell phones came out. And the standard was based on six-foot males that occasionally use a cellphone. And the standard was established that the strength of the signal can't be more than one that's 6 watts per kilogram because they knew a six-foot male would have that signal penetrate the skull by one inch and heat up the area by two degrees. I often tell this story that 30 years ago, I'd had a cell phone, but I had no one to talk to because no one else had a cell phone. 

[00:16:45] So, occasional use back then was very, very so often and very, very short because you couldn't afford the minutes on your cell phone. Fast forward today, that standard—which by the way, that standard was only concerned with the thermal impact, the heating up. Everything you were talking about before was a biological response, which is far more—as we now understand it, far more dangerous than any thermal impact could ever be from these kinds of transmissions. 

[00:17:21]Luke Storey:  So, is there no regulation then for the radiation that's going into your head or your private parts-

[00:17:30]Daniel DeBaun:  There was none.

[00:17:30]Luke Storey:  ... in using these devices? It's just about like putting a hot thing against your head? 

[00:17:34]Daniel DeBaun:  Right, literally.

[00:17:36]Luke Storey:  That’s so insane. 

[00:17:37]Daniel DeBaun:  And I'll break it into more detail, which I hate to do, but, you know, a standard six-foot male, if he had a concussion and had a blood brain barrier breakdown, that's no longer true. The cell phone will go to the center of their brain, the frontal lobe. So, if there are certain body conditions that you have, it can be worse. So, that was when the standard was, there's only talk about thermal, and it's been never updated over these many, many years. Recently, the FCC approved 5G, which is the fifth-generation technology, which by the way is fundamentally different than the standard when it became 30 years ago, established in the marketplace. 

[00:18:32] It was not a sign wave signal. It was now 5G, a digital signal that didn't work at two gigahertz. Two gigahertz, by the way, is 2 billion cycles per second. And the 5G can work up to 300 billion cycles per second. So, all of a sudden, the standard has virtually nothing to do with the current technology that we are integrating into our devices. And sort of the fox in the henhouse that you are referring to is 20, 30 years ago, I actually worked in the industry for a long time, as you know, and there was a guy named Tom Wheeler who was the head of the CTIA, a consortium specifically lobbying the federal government for the service providers, the cell phone service providers. 

[00:19:35] And he had that job for 10, 15 years. And five, six—no, actually about seven years ago, he was appointed as the chairman of the FCC. And as the chairman of the FCC, he had 5G standards introduced to his organization to be approved or disapproved. And so, here we are, the guy that represented the cell phone industry making a decision about a technology. And his decision was, “We don't have to test this. We don't have to make sure it's safe. We have to make sure we deploy it really quickly.” And so, here we go, we have up to 300 gigahertz of signal that's being transmitted at the front of your house and it's not been tested. The standards for presenting safety for the user haven’t been reviewed for 30 some odd years, and that's what's being deployed with 5G today.

[00:20:50]Luke Storey:  And what's the difference between the 5G millimeter wave and the, you know, 2G, 3G, 4G that we've been using and sort of progressing through, like what's the difference of the biological effects because there's so much noise within the health community about the dangers of 5G even above and beyond regular exposure? So, being near—you know, in a smart grid kind of city, as they call it—I love that they call it smart too, because it's so dumb. But being, you know, close to a 5G transmitter, why is that worse than being near a regular cell tower? 

[00:21:27]Daniel DeBaun:  So, there are a lot of reasons for that, but let me talk about why is this so much different than previously? When we spoke about—I spoke about ELF or extremely low frequency at 60 hertz, that's really, really, really low on the spectrum scale, on the left-hand side of the spectrum scale. And when we talk about microwaves, we talk about it a little above the left-hand side of the scale. So, it's not much farther. Two gigahertz from 60 hertz sounds like a lot, but it's really not too much. We're talking about almost approaching x-ray speeds, which are in the terahertz space. 

[00:22:11] And so, it's very, very fundamentally different because now, you're right, so much faster speeds. And by the way, when the standard was created long ago, they weren't a pulsing signal. When the standard was created, it was on a constant load signal. Now, it's pulsing signals. Pulsing actually is more damaging to the cell than a constant load to a cell. So, there's a little bit of mechanical breakdown of the cell that happens more with this. But with 5G, as you increase the speeds, this is in the nanometer. It's just a continuation of speeds. 

[00:22:57] It's going much more fast, not quite as fast as x-ray, but it's getting there. As time goes on, it'll actually get up to that point. So, here, you're increasing it, and then you're asking me what's the impact? No one knows. There's been literally no study work. And as a research scientist, you don't speculate. However, I can give you some idea what potentially can occur. We don't know, but bugs like to propagate in faster speeds. The gut, for example, the good gut, the bad gut, it propagates better in higher speeds than up to 4G. 

[00:23:42] So, when you go to 5G, it's almost a different game. It’s a different ballpark, but there was another really important point you were making before you have. You were within a thousand feet of a cell tower. That was a 60-watt cell tower transmission, 60 watts. And so, there was a lot of power that was coming down. It wasn't one watt, it was—by the time it was hitting you, maybe at 30 watts, wattage of it. So, you had a fairly strong signal. With 5G, you can only go 750 feet, not the four or five miles of 4G. Why? 

[00:24:24] Because the speeds are faster and the load drops down really, really fast. So, it's really short distance. But guess what, it's at 20 watts being transmitted at—what is referred to the small tower, the small cell. It's a third of what a standard cell tower. And what I wanted to mention before is the amplitude of the signal where you are three times more likely within a thousand feet of a cell tower to get cancer than the average population. And so, would I speculate? Do I know what the problem is going to be with the small cell tower distance? 

[00:25:04] I can’t, but I know from research that the closer you are to a higher power level signal, the more likely you are susceptible to biological changes to your body. I'll give you a story about that. I work with a neurologist. He called me up on a Saturday morning and he says, “My head hurts. My head hurts.” I'm saying, “Well, how do I know what's going on with your head?” And I said, “Well, what are you doing?” And he said, “Well, I just moved into a place and I have a—well, you know, I'm in a cabin somewhere and I just got a new cable service.” 

[00:25:43] And I said, “Did you get a coaxial cable or did you have a wireless service?” And he said, “How did you know? I have a wireless service.” I said, “Well, chances are, you have 5G.” His head was hurting so bad because of that 5G signal, that he was a canary in the coal mine. He immediately felt it when he was so close to the towers. So, I think there's enough projection of concern from historical evidence of pro-body response up to 4G, where we really should be concerned even more so with 5G.

[00:26:26]Luke Storey:  Something I find terribly disconcerting about the 5G wavelength is, well, A, is millimeter waves not the technology they use in those relatively new TSA airport scanners? 

[00:26:42]Daniel DeBaun:  It’s even worse than that. 

[00:26:43]Luke Storey:  Because I don't go—I don't use those. I have TSA precheck and I go through the old school, you know, metal detector. And if there's not one of those, I'll get the pat down. I'm like, “You guys can take me in the room and do whatever you want with me”, like I'm not walking through the millimeter wave. That's like a little 5G coffin, you know.

[00:26:59]Daniel DeBaun:  It is. But worse than that, you and I are on the university, we're going to go complain about something and all of a sudden, the army truck comes up and it directs a signal to us. And it's an active device intended to break up crowds and it's at 90 gigahertz. Remember, microwave signals go up to 300 gigahertz, wi-fi goes up to 300 gigahertz. So, we know at 90 gigahertz, they use it in crowd control. It's not water, power water. It's used for crowd control. 

[00:27:36] And what's actually happening in there, by the way, when you have sweat glands, there are little coils underneath the skin, and when they put that 90 gigahertz signal towards you, it acts as an antenna and it draws the antenna in. That's why you get so hot. That's why you run. So, we know in some of the spectrum, it can be pretty seriously dangerous to you. In fact, you will run from it. And that's active denial that's used today in armies, in crowd control. 

[00:28:08]Luke Storey:  Yeah, there are videos. And hopefully, these can make it in the show notes as well. It's interesting though because information like this is now being quickly censored from YouTube. So, I implore someone, you know, start creating other platforms where information like this can be shared, but I have seen videos of them demonstrating the military applications of the millimeter wave AKA 5G range. And essentially, what you're describing is they have a tank and rather than a water gun or bullets or, you know, those beanbags or any of that, it's an invisible wave. And then, you see people just start screaming and crying and running away. I mean, they show it being tested and it's like, “Oh, you're going to move into a neighborhood that is actively firing those same signals toward your house or your office.” I mean, it's just nuts, you know.

[00:29:02]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:29:02]Luke Storey:  One of the thing that I find confusing about the 5G thing, and I meant to kind of stick to devices, but this is such—it's such a hot conversation right now and one that I think is so important, but myself and people that write into the show and follow me on social media have a really difficult time discerning which of these new towers are 5G because the old cell towers are, you know, like these panels that are maybe three feet tall and, you know, 10 inches wide, right? And there'll be a bunch of little sticks up on a pole. You know, that's kind of the classic, maybe the 4G cell towers. And then, in LA, we have now, especially in the canyons like in Malibu and Topanga Canyon here in Laurel Canyon, where there's mountains that prevent cell towers four or five miles away from getting into the Canyon. 

[00:29:50] They have these little short dogs hanging off the phone poles in both directions, you know, facing, in other words, both directions of the road. And there'll be every single or every other phone pole will have these, and they’re maybe 16, 20 inches high and eight inches wide. You know, these small cells. And I always thought that those were 5G. And then, I had my friend Brian Hoyer, who has RF meters that are specially designed—actually, they're used by the telecommunications companies, and they go up to, I think, 30 gigahertz, so they can test kind of at the bottom range of what 5G would be. 

[00:30:23] We went out and tested those and we’re getting no signals. We were getting, you know, within the normal range of 4g. And so, I don't think those are—because a lot of people will send pictures to me on Instagram, they’re like, “Is this 5g?” I go, “I don't think it is actually.” But now, we have these little cylinders. They're like—they look like a giant soup can and they're white and there's nothing else on them except that. And I suspect that those might be the 5G one. So, is there any way to identify visually what a 5G cell tower looks like versus one of the older ones? 

[00:30:59]Daniel DeBaun:  The height, literally the height of the stuff you see. When you see it at the very top of a telephone pole, that's possibly—it's a small cell site. It's a traditional 4g cell site. But when it's lower, it's highly likely to be 5G because they can only go 750 feet. And that means they don't worry about going over the Hill, they worry about only getting to your house. So, the lower it is, the more direct it is. And so, when you see lower units, that's more likely to—and by the way, they can convert as well. They can show as 4G transmissions, but they can convert them to 5G. 

[00:31:45]Luke Storey:  Oh, interesting.

[00:31:46]Daniel DeBaun:  But you'll see now, if there's a new installation, it's more likely than not 5G because of the cable service provider, the telephone providers are not spending money on any traditional technologies. It's all the new stuff. 

[00:32:01]Luke Storey:  Or here's what's weird in LA, when I see these new strange-looking cell towers that'll be on the top of like a lamppost, for example, right in the middle of Hollywood, what's strange is you'll just see one and there aren't any others around in many cases. Like you just see one on one street, so that would indicate to me that that's probably not 5G. Because if that one little tower only goes 750 feet, they would need to have them going up and down the whole street for them to do anything, right? I mean-

[00:32:31]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. Right. So, Luke, we've been talking up to 300 gigahertz, right? 

[00:32:36]Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

[00:32:38]Daniel DeBaun:  In 5G, there's actually four or five different signal levels around the three to five gigahertz range, even down to 900 megahertz. It's depending on the application. 5G talks about a whole network, a whole new network. And so, there’s a bunch of parts to it. And one part may act as an intermediary with other parts of it and they interconnect. And that's this web of stuff, transmission stuff, it’s all controlled by control stuff above it all. So, when you see these new stuffs going in, they may be actually in the lower range. And that lower range is not as concerning as the really high range, which is only in the small cell. 

[00:33:36]Luke Storey:  Got it. 

[00:33:37]Daniel DeBaun:  It’s to stop only in front of a house, that would likely be 5G. 

[00:33:42]Luke Storey:  Okay, got it. 

[00:33:42]Daniel DeBaun:  Then you worry about it.

[00:33:43]Luke Storey:  And another strange thing about this rollout, because the 5G rollout is so shrouded in mystery, there's not a lot of public knowledge being shared by the telecommunications companies because they're about profit, not about informing the public of safety precautions. 

[00:34:01]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:34:02]Luke Storey:  But another thing that's interesting is some people's phones in different towns and cities will pop up. And when you look at your phone and the service you're getting, like right now, I think, let me see what mine says, oh, mine, I don't get service at my house, that's right. I'm on wi-fi on my phone. But, you know, your phone will usually say 3G, 4G, something like that. 

[00:34:22]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:34:22]Luke Storey:  I notice if I go to a less developed country like Costa Rica, my phone always drops down to 3G. And there's an indicator on the top of your iPhone that tells you what network.

[00:34:31]Daniel DeBaun:  Right.

[00:34:31]Luke Storey:  And many people now have phones that are popping up as 5G, but they're not in a 5G area and they're not near any visible 5G towers. Do you think that's like a test that the different phone companies are rolling out to make your phone receptive to 5G even though you're not in one of the networks yet?

[00:34:49]Daniel DeBaun:  So, believe it or not, you didn't intentionally ask me this question, but it's a very good question. 5G will coexist with all of the previous technologies for the foreseeable future. So, when we talk about as you just did about, it registers 3G or it registers 4G, it will continue doing that because those transmissions will continue. And when you're picking up a 5G, it's possible it's one of the intermediary transmissions, and not the small cell transmission, which you probably wouldn't see. 

[00:35:35]Luke Storey:  Got it.

[00:35:35]Daniel DeBaun:  And by the way, you probably didn't pick it up, but when I said 20 watts, no one knows that. That's sort of a pretty important point. When you talk to those who are talking about these problems, it's not a general well-known, understood, it's 20 watts being transmitted to the front of your house. It's one third the power level of one that goes five miles for 4g. 

[00:36:00]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[00:36:00]Daniel DeBaun:  That's a big deal in my opinion.

[00:36:04]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:36:04]Daniel DeBaun:  Because I think that's what's going to bother you more than cancer to the brain, for example. You're going to feel that more so than you do 4G.

[00:36:16]Luke Storey:  The next thing I'd like to clear up for people is the terminology that's used when we're looking at our in-home wi-fi network. You have a wi-fi router that's transmitting radiation throughout your house and that radiation carries your data as mine is right now in my office so that I can use my cell phone and a laptop and the Sonos system and the Dyson heater, all the shit that runs on wi-fi, unfortunately. 

[00:36:43]Daniel DeBaun:  Right.

[00:36:44]Luke Storey:  But people seem very confused that if they're picking up a 5G signal from their router, they think that's the same thing as 5G cell service. So, could you explain the difference between a wi-fi router number and the cell phone network that's out in the world on the towers and all that? 

[00:37:02]Daniel DeBaun:  Absolutely. 5G that we all hear about these days is fifth generation. When we were talking about ELF, we talked about it as hertz. When we talked about up to 4G about two gigahertz, that's the actual speed that's being transmitted from your cell phone to the cell tower. When you go and you talk about a router, it's at 2.4 gigahertz or 5.6 gigahertz, that's the actual speed of the transmission. It has nothing to do with fifth generation transmission. It only has to do with the speed of the transmission. 

[00:37:55]Luke Storey:  Got it. So, it’s-

[00:37:56]Daniel DeBaun:  Does that help? 

[00:37:56]Luke Storey:  Yeah. So, it's semantics. In other words, people just need to understand that when you're talking about the 5G rollout worldwide and smart grids and smart cities and this horrific stuff that's being developed and released without any safety testing that many communities and citizens are fighting against, that's a completely different thing than when you have your wi-fi in your house and you can set it to 2.4 or five gigahertz.

[00:38:19]Daniel DeBaun:  Or 5.6, right.

[00:38:19]Luke Storey:  Because it'll stay 5G when you're picking up the signal in your house. So, I just wanted people to understand that. Now, in your opinion, for those of us that have the option of running a wi-fi router in our house on 2.4 or five, which do you think would be the safest? Because I can set mine to either one and it works the same. The speed seems the same, receptivity within the home seems the same, but I've heard different opinions on which one's more biologically harmful in those two different wavelengths or signals in the home from your router.

[00:38:54]Daniel DeBaun:  From a scientific medical point of view, there is no difference. I can say that so definitively because there has never been research that clearly tests one against the other. So, when you think of these things, you define it as no difference. So, there is literally no biological difference that science knows about. Now, you can speculate that it's possible that 2.4 is better than 5.6 because it's a less speed, but when you are at those low-level speeds, there's appreciably very little, if any difference at all, to the cell itself. So, I wouldn't—so, it's more a question of do you want your data faster or not? Once or twice as fast the other, that's it. 

[00:39:52]Luke Storey:  Okay. Because I think my—if I'm not mistaken, I think mine's still on 2.4 and it seems to work fine and-

[00:39:58]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah, it does. 

[00:39:59]Luke Storey:  I think ultimately, the solution when you're dealing with your home, I mean, in a perfect world, this would be my strategy. I'll run this by you and just share this with the listeners. I leased the home that I'm in now. And I'm in the process of looking to buy my own house. Since I'm leasing, it doesn't make sense to spend $20,000 using shielding paint, you know, however—I mean, it might cost 50 grand to tear out all the wiring in the walls to shield all that to do shielding paint, EMF curtains, in other words, to turn the whole home into a Faraday cage, and then hard-wire all the devices, so you have ethernet ports in every room to plug in your phone, to plug in devices and things, which I think that's like the ultimate, the best harmonious, safe kind of home strategy. 

[00:40:48] In this house I'm in, as I said, I don't have cell service, so I've got to have the wi-fi on. So, my intermediate strategy is to just have it on a timer and the wi-fi turns off around the time I'd go to bed every night, and then turns back on in the morning. And then, I also have a few devices around the house that had been very effective for my symptoms. One is called a Somavedic. I have a couple of those around the house. And then, I have these blue shield devices. And it's definitely helped kind of harmonize the field. It doesn't block the EMF, but it absolutely improves sleep and gets rid of the headaches and some of the other symptoms I've experienced. 

[00:41:25] So, shielding your whole home, hard-wiring everything would be the most hardcore way to do it if you really wanted to be protected. And if you own the place and you wanted to invest, you could do that. But for those of us that are renting or living in an apartment and don't have, you know, the finances or the opportunity to kind of like bio hack our whole property in that way, let's go ahead and move into some of the strategies of the various devices. And I want to talk about our cellphone, tablets and laptops to see what we can do. 

[00:41:43] Because I know you make some great products that protect these, but I'd like to talk about specifically kind of the emissions that are coming off our devices generally. So, we could start perhaps with a laptop. From what I understand and like your DefenderShield pads go under the laptop. So, mine is just Velcroed permanently to the bottom of my MacBook. And just that way, you know, I don't have to go grab it. It's on the airplane anywhere I am. So, the radiation on the bottom for what I understand is 99% blocked or something. What can we do about, you know, radiation or magnetic fields or electric fields coming off the actual keyboard, the track pad, the screen, all of that on a laptop?

[00:42:42]Daniel DeBaun:  Let's talk about those things, but I think what you just spoke about earlier is so important. This is not—you don't panic. You don't talk about how endangered you are from the technology around. You can take actions to do things. And I think you are pointing to some very, very solid ways of minimizing exposure. And that's what you do. But the fact is, in your case, where you can, running an ethernet cable to your devices, whatever devices you're using is a simple thing. I have a laptop. It's always plugged into an internet. I never use wi-fi for that. 

[00:43:29] So, I'm not transmitting wi-fi. I'm using cable, so I'm reducing the number of transmissions in the room. That's a very simple thing to do. The other thing you did is you put it on a timer. You choke probably 50% of the real dangers and you put them away. You'd eliminated them from being a concern for your body by simply turning it off. The other thing you can very simply do is move it away from you. As you push it away from you, the more and more you push it away, the better off you are. So, if you have a router next to your head and you're sitting on a desk, that's not a good thing. 

[00:44:15] But you take that same router and you put it 10 feet away and much of the danger is gone. So, by simply placing it away from you, you actually reduce the potential dangers to your body. You don't panic about it. You simply manage what you have in those ways and you reduce it. And in fact, with devices in general, 98%, 90%—100% of the problem with devices is when it touches your body, any part of the body. When you move it one to two foot away, almost 80% of the danger to the cell is gone, just by moving it one, two-foot away. 

[00:45:01] By four-foot, most of it is gone. So, by simply taking devices that you're not using and moving away, you really reduce the exposures. And by the way, as we just spoke, if you're using devices and you're putting them aside by turning them off, you're reducing the cumulative—the ambient in the environment. So, like in your case, you have a cellphone, you actually have a wi-fi transmitter on, you have a cell tower transmitter on, and you may even have a Bluetooth transmitter on. If you are not at home using the cell or the Bluetooth, turn them off. We often-

[00:45:50]Luke Storey:  So, your phone's going to transmit three different—it's not just receiving, but it's transmitting those three signals?

[00:45:56]Daniel DeBaun:  Right. So, just cut them off.

[00:45:57]Luke Storey:  Oh, shoot. So, in my case, for example, because there is no cell service here, which is why I moved here, I can go ahead, like I can show you, I can turn off on my iPhone to see if we can put that in the camera.

[00:46:10]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:11]Luke Storey:  I can turn off my cellular service, turn off the Bluetooth, and just have the wi-fi on my phone. And that way, it's only emitting one of those three signals and I can still get phone calls and texts using my network. 

[00:46:24]Daniel DeBaun:  Right, exactly. Luke, when we last talked, I talk about bees in the room. One bee won't kill you, a thousand will. So, that's analogous to the transmitters in a room. If you have one transmitter in the room, you're not going to die. You have a thousand? I'd be really worried. So, turn them off. By simply turning off within your environment, you’re reducing much of the dangers potentially to your body. It’s simple.

[00:46:58]Luke Storey:  And with a laptop, I've heard that the electric frequencies coming off the laptop are exponentially higher and more harmful when it's plugged in. Would you agree that you want to pre-charge your devices, then use them rather than using them while they're plugged in? 

[00:47:18]Daniel DeBaun:  So, we spoke about ELF and RF, right? So, you're not only getting the RF transmissions, but you're getting the ELF transmissions, 60 hertz stuff, the AC, the alternating current within your home is also at play. It's not that it's increasing the RF, it's making multiple sources of emissions, both ELF and RF. And you're right, simply by taking it, unplugging it, using it with battery, half of those transmissions that can be dangerous to your body are gone by simply unplugging it.

[00:48:00]Luke Storey:  Right. And if you're protecting the bottom of your laptop with a device like you guys make, is there anything you can do about the emissions coming off the keyboard and the track pad, like on a laptop or are those something of concern anyway? Like would it be optimal to use a like a wired trackpad or mouse and a wired keyboard and keep your laptop screen even further away from you rather than having your hands like over those emissions while you're using it for long periods of time?

[00:48:34]Daniel DeBaun:  There’s actually no question about that. In fact, we also will often work with extremely hypersensitive, local hypersensitive people. And for them, we have fairly rigid rules. You have to create a workstation. If you use your laptop the way it is, you're all going to be in chronic irritation all the time you use it. You have to manage yourself when using the technology. So, if you take a new LED monitor and you put it away, the danger of the screen is gone. If you put a wired pad versus a wireless pad, you will eliminate the Bluetooth. 

[00:49:25] In addition to that, you're putting the source of much of the emission away from you by one or two feet. So, you're really reducing the emissions by 80% by simply doing the simple things you suggested. Having a wired mouse and a wireless keyboard connected to a tablet or a laptop really is important to some of us, more than 20% of us. And it's simple to set up and you really provide a more safe environment for use. 

[00:50:01]Luke Storey:  Awesome. That's perfect. That's one of the things I've been intending to—I don't use a laptop that much, mostly when I travel, but I've been intending to do that.

[00:50:09]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:50:09]Luke Storey:  And even, I had a Brian Hoyer, the guy I mentioned before, come in and test my whole house, which by the way, guys, it's a two-hour documentary that I produced. Basically him screening the whole house to teach people what's going on in there. And that'll probably be out I think by the time this does. So, I'll plug it in the intro and the outro when your episode comes out. But he came and tested the workstation that I'm in right now, which is a big iMac computer. And my microphones and headphones, all the recording equipment. 

[00:50:36] And this was one of the lowest EMF areas of the whole house, which I thought was so interesting because I always thought I'm probably getting fried by this giant computer and all these mics. It's actually pretty good. The only thing that I could optimize, I think, on this workstation is I'm using the Apple—I'll put it on the camera here for the YouTube video. I'm using the Apple Trackpad. And when I use this or I use my laptop and it might be a nocebo psychosomatic thing, too, but I swear, like my right hand gets sore. It like hurts in my bones. 

[00:51:05]Daniel DeBaun:  No. It's literally true. That's what you’re feeling is true. 

[00:51:09]Luke Storey:  Oh, okay. 

[00:51:09]Daniel DeBaun:  It’s very consistent. 

[00:51:10]Luke Storey:  Because I don't want to believe, but unfortunately, I'm so addicted to the trackpad, I can't use a mouse anymore. It's just so cumbersome and I just can't move quickly and operate my computer with efficiency. And so, they've not yet invented, you know, an Apple Trackpad that's wired, which just drives me nuts. 

[00:51:27]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:51:27]Luke Storey:  Because otherwise, my little workstation would be really, really legit. 

[00:51:32]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. All your workstation is wired. That's why it's the way it is. 

[00:51:38]Luke Storey:  Right. There was a little ELF coming off the back of the iMac, but I'm quite far from it, so it wasn't an issue.

[00:51:44]Daniel DeBaun:  So, you’re pretty safe.

[00:51:45]Luke Storey:  If you wanted to be real hardcore, you could put, you know, like shielded power cables on the back of the computer essentially. But, you know, it's far enough away. I didn't trip on that. Another thing I'd like to ask you about is Bluetooth devices that people use on their head. I see people all the time now walking around with these earbuds. And I just—again, like when I see a five-year-old with an iPad on their belly or something, I just cringe. What's your opinion on the radiation level of Bluetooth devices on your skull? 

[00:52:16]Daniel DeBaun:  Actually, I was hinting to some of that earlier, so let's talk about that. A standard cellphone shouldn't transmit more than 1.6 watts per kilogram. It can't penetrate by—by this standard, it can’t really go beyond one inch. If you are a concussed and you're not a six-foot male, you're a female, for example, that Bluetooth signal is .3 watts. That's five times less than a 1.6-watt signal, .3 watts. What we know from research is that with a concussion, with the blood brain barrier down as result of the concussion. .1 watts, one-third below the level of Bluetooth can disturb the cells of the frontal lobe. 

[00:53:21] So, they're crazy to run the risk of using it long term like that. It's not that it's moment—if you use it for three minutes, not a big deal, but if you put it in your ears and doing it for hours at a time, it's a constant transmission of a long duration of time. And that's when it becomes dangerous. And even though it's a low level, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't recommend it. 

[00:53:48]Luke Storey:  It seems perhaps worse even now because you've got the ear buds that go on either side of your brain. So, you're creating like, you know, this field that's surrounding your brain. Even the old school, little Bluetooth things on your ear would be, you know, just on one side. And for some reason, just having it kind of, you know, the communication, the hemispheric sort of, you know, surrounding of your brain with even that low-level radiation for a three mile jog or going to the gym for two hours or sitting in the office and not wanting to hold your cellphone, I just think, “Wow, that can't be good”, you know. 

[00:54:26]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. And think of this, some actually transmit separately, but not many. Most transmit to one that transmits to the other. 

[00:54:37]Luke Storey:  Oh, damn. 

[00:54:41]Daniel DeBaun:  That makes it worse. That's .3 watts going through your head. 

[00:54:46]Luke Storey:  Interesting. Okay. And when we're looking at a cellphone like an iPhone, I guess most people I know have an iPhone, but they all probably work the same, what areas of the phone are—provided it's not plugged in, like again, with the laptop, we would advise to not use your phone when it's plugged in, try to charge your phone and then use it when it's not plugged into the 60 hertz, you know, power grid in your house. But in terms of the RF, the radiation, whether it be the cellular service, the wi-fi or the Bluetooth or all of them, which parts of the phone, directionally produced the worst or the most signal that you'd want to avoid?

[00:55:25]Daniel DeBaun:  The top. 

[00:55:26]Luke Storey:  Really? 

[00:55:27]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. That's where the cell tower communications are occurring, on the top. Wi-fi, Bluetooth are on the sides. 

[00:55:34]Luke Storey:  Oh. So, the cell service is on the top edge, and then the other signals come out the side? 

[00:55:41]Daniel DeBaun:  On the sides, yeah, typically.

[00:55:42]Luke Storey:  Oh, interesting. 

[00:55:44]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[00:55:44]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:55:45]Daniel DeBaun:  And by the way, we haven't talked about any of this stuff, but, you know, when you talk about a cellphone to the head, in telecommunications, they call crosstalk, where I can be talking to you on one telephone line and I hear someone else other than you, that's where one transmission is interfering with another transmission. Well, when you have a transmission to your head, the communications within the head is cross-talking with the communications from your cell phone.

[00:56:23] So, it's not just—and we haven't talked much about it other than it's terminal and not much biological, but you're actually interference by neuro glands. There are all sorts of stuff that's interfering with, the very low-level communications, infrastructures of the body. It's screwing it up. And so, it's not just am I going to get cancer in the frontal lobe that we're worried about. It's really the interference problems of the signals. And the clinics these days are finding out more and more that there is clear evidence of direct links between cellphones. Like the breast to cancer, there's breast to neurological and physiological changes in the body. 

[00:57:11]Luke Storey:  Got it. And so, with the device that I have, that you guys make, the DefenderShield phone case, which by the way, when I first got it, it has a little wallet in it, you know, where you can put, you know, like a billfold. You have your bills, and then credit cards. And when I first got it, I was like, man, I don't want to carry around this big ass thing. It's so clunky, and then my credit cards are in there. And I also felt really old, you know. It's like an old dude thing to carry it all in one. 

[00:57:37] And I'm hanging on to 49 as long as I can. But, you know, it's interesting that I've found, is I actually—now, I can't stand carrying a wallet, like I'll be bummed if one of my credit cards that I—you know, like my business card or whatever's in my wallet somewhere. I'm like, oh, God, I just—so now, I have them all stuffed in this phone case. And actually, like just having to remember one thing, it's been really kind of actually a game changer just in terms of carrying stuff around, but-

[00:58:02]Daniel DeBaun:  Oh, I’m glad you liked it.

[00:58:03]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's cool. It's a great device. What I'm curious about though is, from what I understand, the shielding part of this case is the part that covers the screen, which is where the sound, you know, your speaker is on that side too. Is that correct? 

[00:58:18]Daniel DeBaun:  Speakers on the earpiece and we go around it. 

[00:58:24]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:58:24]Daniel DeBaun:  But remember I told you where the transmitters are, they're on the sides. 

[00:58:28]Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

[00:58:29]Daniel DeBaun:  So, we actually shield it from the sides, so our shielding goes up to the top. So, we actually shield—and the speaker—and when you talk, the microphone is on the bottom and we don't cover that.

[00:58:42]Luke Storey:  Right. 

[00:58:42]Daniel DeBaun:  And so, by the way, I didn't go—I don't know if I told you this, but when I was developing this product, there was a 16-year-old girl that wanted a cell phone. And parents finally ended up breaking down and buy it for her. And she passed away from frontal lobe cancer a year later. That was the motivation of me building that because I knew the signal could be stopped and no one was stopping it. And a simple device like that stops the signal, where it's most dangerous to the body. So-

[00:59:23]Luke Storey:  And so, if you're walking around and you'd need to have your phone on and not on airplane or turned off, which is the case for most of us, obviously, we want to be reachable, then you would carry this phone here in your case with the shielded side, which is the face of your phone, the front of your phone, where the screen is, you'd carry that facing your body, and then, it's still going to be getting the cellular transmission coming out of the back of your phone, which is the part of the case that's not shielded, right?

[00:59:52]Daniel DeBaun:  Right. That's exactly how it works. 

[00:59:53]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:59:53]Daniel DeBaun:  It's that simple.

[00:59:55]Luke Storey:  Because if you shielded all four sides with your case, your phone would be non-operational, right? 

[01:00:00]Daniel DeBaun:  It wouldn't work. 

[01:00:01]Luke Storey:  Okay. That's how good the shielding works. Well, that's good. Okay. And then, I've heard that there's GPS and other things still activated when even when your phone's on airplane, is your phone still producing radiation when it's in airplane mode or is it—

[01:00:18]Daniel DeBaun:  Yes.

[01:00:19]Luke Storey:  It is. Okay. 

[01:00:20]Daniel DeBaun:  Yes. And it's even worse with the new newest stuff, 11, iPhone 11 and other new technologies because they are using slightly different GPS stuff. So, it's actually worse now than it was a year ago. So, yeah, you have to be aware that when you turn it off and put airplane, it's not turning off all the transmitters. But they’re spurious. It's not constant, it's periodic. 

[01:00:46]Luke Storey:  Got it. And then, I'm assuming you don't find a validity or efficacy in these other little crystal stickers and the quantum pads and, you know, over the years before, there was device like you make that just covers the whole damn thing up. I mean, I don’t know how many different—in fact, I just found one on the bottom of my track, I have some little Shung guy sticker thing, you know. And I'm like, hey, it can't hurt, but I've never seen any empirical evidence as to, you know, the effectiveness of these little stickers and quantum, this and that, that you stick on the back of your phone or anything. Have you ever come across any of those devices that have any positive impact at all or is it, you know, hogwash?

[01:01:35]Daniel DeBaun:  I try to be open about it, but we got to remember, I ran technical laboratories for many, many years. And so, for me, when somebody makes a claim about performance, you test it to see if it did what it says it's going to do. And so, many products on the market have no independent, unbiased testing that substantiates the claim. And quite frankly, there are some arguments that are being described about the performance of these—some of these devices that defies physics. I don't know what they're talking about. And so, like you really have to look for, as you just pointed out, some level of evidence that substantiates the claim. So, many of them don't. And I would only make an assumption that if they don't have a substantiation, I would question the livability of the claim. 

[01:02:36]Luke Storey:  Right. Yeah. I think that when you get into the EMF mitigation game, it's tricky because there—and I don't know that this is true for the little stickers that go on your phone and that kind of stuff. The only evidence I've ever seen that that's doing anything is if you do muscle testing, you know, which is there's a lot of potential for placebo and things like that when you conduct muscle tests. In other words, like if you put a sticker on my phone that's supposed to protect me from the EMF, even though it's not going to affect an EMF meter’s reading because it's not technically blocking, but let's say it creates a, you know, harmonious field on and around your phone, and you tell me that. And then, I hold the phone against my solar plexus and you muscle test me and I'm weak without it, strong with it, that could be just because I have a strong belief that it's doing something, you know, so-

[01:03:54]Daniel DeBaun:  You can't tell. And by the way, that's a test called indirect. 

[01:03:54]Luke Storey:  Okay. 

[01:03:54]Daniel DeBaun:  You can't trust indirect for the very reasons you said.

[01:03:54]Luke Storey:  Okay. 

[01:03:54]Daniel DeBaun:  It's not controlled. 

[01:03:54]Luke Storey:  Right. Okay. So, with the devices, you have that. And then, the thing that I'm finding fascinating is, as I mentioned before, I have two different types of devices that are in my home. And because it doesn't, technically speaking, block the wi-fi in my home, for example, because my wi-fi still works when these devices are on, however, I have had my N equals one own personal study in the case of the blue shield device, which is a scalar wave device, which essentially emits a frequency that is resonant with your body, that renders your body, to some degree, impervious to the negative EMF fields because your body's kind of attuning to the positive field, therefore becoming somewhat invisible to the negative EMF field. 

[01:04:25] And my evidence with that was when I was living next to those cell towers, I lived there and I didn't know the cell towers were there. I just knew that I felt like shit and I thought, “Well, I'm going to put one of these devices in my house because I know I live in the middle of the city and there's EMF around. There's no need for me to test the levels because I already know there's just ambient radiation in my neighborhood anyway.

[01:04:46]Daniel DeBaun:  Right.

[01:04:46]Luke Storey:  So, I put the thing in there, and then once I found the cell towers and moved out, I looked back and was like, holy crap. Before I even knew there were cell towers there, those symptoms, like the headaches and insomnia and all those things stopped when I had put that blue shield thing in my house.

[01:05:01]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:02]Luke Storey:  I got worse for about a week. I had some kind of, you know, die-off or, you know, kind of a Herxheimer reaction. And that's what they told me it probably was because I said, “Guys, I feel worse now that this thing's in my house.” After a week or two, that subsided, then my symptoms went down dramatically. And months later, I put two and two together and I thought, oh, my God, that little scalar thing actually did something, even though you couldn't empirically test that it was, you know, blocking that cell tower next to me, it was doing something. 

[01:05:33] And much the same way, these other devices that are based on not scalar but on precious stones and semi-precious stones that emit a field within your home called the Somavedic, both of those companies do really interesting testing where they do live blood cell analysis. They do HRV analysis before and after. And even blue shield has done a couple of interesting animal studies, which of course is, you know, impossible to placebo, if the animal doesn't have a conscious awareness that you're doing any tests.

[01:06:03]Daniel DeBaun:  Right. Right.

[01:06:04]Luke Storey:  They do these tests in New Zealand where they would go to chicken farms and cow farms that were very close to cell towers and they would test the milk before and after installing these devices and find that the milk, with these devices installed on the property, had a much greater nutrient density and fat profile. And then, they take it away and it would go back to being kind of crappy milk. And with the chickens, the same thing. They would test the quality and size of the eggs. And they would also note the degree of infighting within the coop. And so, these chickens, they were under the stress of those cell towers, would be fighting and picking each other and all this kind of stuff.

[01:06:47]Daniel DeBaun:  Oh, yeah.

[01:06:48]Luke Storey:  And then, when they installed the devices, they were just like peace in the chicken coop, you know. And they documented all this. And so, I find those technologies interesting. But I still am—I'm a bit woo, woo, but I also like a dose of science and empirical evidence here and there, but I find both of those interesting because they are able to do testing outside of the direct realm of saying, “Okay, this blocks EMF like your devices do on your cellphone, your tablet, your laptop, et cetera.” 

[01:07:20] So, I'm encouraged that these companies are seeing a marketplace need in coming up with technologies that they can verify, at least to some degree, are having a positive effect, even though they don't interfere with your ability to use those devices by technically blocking it all. So, there's kind of a middle ground, I think, between the little fake stickers that don't do anything and just having everything locked. You know, there's some—in the energetic kind of quantum field, there seem to be things emerging that are useful, which is exciting. 

[01:07:51]Daniel DeBaun:  And Luke, that's why I said right from the very beginning when we started chatting about this, I don't make an assumption that it doesn't work because there are some things, like for example, some of the stones, they're fundamentally carbon. Carbon is a—it absorbs the emissions, believe it or not. So, they're like a floating ground. And so, there's very legitimate scientific evidence of what it can do, but they just don't realize what it is or they can’t explain it. So, there's a lot of stuff that I see going on that is good stuff that does have a good market that has the need. And I think we should find out what they are and test them out.

[01:08:43]Luke Storey:  Yeah, likewise. Well, I think between the two, you know, a lot of the strategies we've talked about today, there's a lot you can do. And I also appreciate your perspective that it's important that we don't get bogged down in the fear and anxiety and run around with veins full of cortisol and adrenaline because we're terrified over environment. Because I think—and I tend to be on that spectrum sometimes. And so, you know, I find myself being afraid of these fields and all that stuff because I have perhaps a mild PTSD of getting so ill from being next to them, oh, my God, I never want to feel like that again. So, it's sort of a balance, as I said earlier, of having awareness of these things and doing what you can to mitigate it and kind of set it and forget it and live your life. Because it's probably worse for your health to walk around in anxiety with these stress hormones flooding your body than it is just, you know, having a wi-fi router on, you know.

[01:09:38]Daniel DeBaun:  You know, it's funny you said PTSD because, well, we know what the extremely hypersensitive, which is the worst side of the spectrum, there's always the fear. It's literally psychological that it builds up in your mind. And so, it's really something that you need to overcome in a sense because it's really true. The body set up to protect itself. And so, when there's an environment and you suspect it could be a problem, it is a problem because you're psychologically trying to deal with it.

[01:10:15]Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

[01:10:15]Daniel DeBaun:  So, it's interesting you said that. 

[01:10:17]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Well, it's—I've been really into the work of Bruce Lipton and Joe Dispenza and these guys that are, you know, to changing your biology using intention and, you know, entering into the quantum field and working with things like that. And I've interviewed both of them about this issue particularly, and they both kind of gave me the affirmative kind of answer that I just arrived at. There's like, A, protect yourself whenever possible. B, don't be a victim of your limbic system and walk around paranoid because that's even worse for you, you know.

[01:10:49]Daniel DeBaun:  Exactly. Exactly.

[01:10:50]Luke Storey:  So, I'm actually doing a program right now called DNRS that was developed by a woman named Annie Hopper who suffered from severe chemical and EMF sensitivities and learned this process of—well, learned and developed a process of using neuroplasticity to heal the limbic system of its injuries, which happens throughout your life from various forms of trauma that put you in that perpetual fight or flight state and the state of being, you know, on constant, on a cortisol and adrenaline cycle. 

[01:11:22] And so, through that system, she gets people that are very sensitive to become unsensitive. And in some cases, render them completely impervious to the effects of EMF and chemicals and things like that by healing the limbic system, which is fascinating. So, that's kind of my next venture into, you know, moving out of the anxiety and fear, but that said, I'm still going to have a DefenderShield on my phone, under my laptop, I'm going to turn my wi-fi off at night. You know, I'm not going to live next to-

[01:11:52]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah, simple stuff to do.

[01:11:52]Luke Storey:  So, it's kind of a combination of both, I think, the mentality of it and your attitude toward it and, you know, loosening up a bit and just taking, you know, the simple approach of just mitigating what you can. 

[01:12:08]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I like that story you're telling because we are finding that—I work with clinics and we're finding that the cellphones, the ambient, our ambient has picked up thousand times over the last 15 years. And so, we see all these kids in school that having anger problems, more ADHD, all those kinds of things that are happening in our environment. And what they're finding is it's the brain that actually appears to be being influenced in all this. And so, yeah, it was kind of characterized by one neurologist with me, it’s, you're walking and your brain’s sleeping. In other words, the brain patterns are screwed up. So, when you're in bed, you're not healing. 

[01:13:06] And when you're up, you're trying to heal. And so, it's becoming more and more complicated with the presence of these electronics in our environment. And the way in which you deal with it has to be different. And so, the first thing I thought about it is when you were mentioning that is that they have BrainTap and other forms of systems that actually help the brain realign itself to where it needs to be. And we have things like Wabi, which is actually measuring the electrical resistance in parts of the brain, so you know you're gaining or losing in the clinic environment. So, a lot of people are working on a lot of very important things in this new space, which by the way, I think more is the elephant in the room than ever before. It's pretty serious stuff. 

[01:14:04]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I love that you mentioned BrainTap. I recently met those guys and got one of those devices. It's kind of a neuro reprogramming, brain healing meditation, earphone light show thing. It's very cool. Actually, I did one last night. And it has—

[01:14:18]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. That’s Dr. Porter.

[01:14:20]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[01:14:20]Daniel DeBaun:  I love the guy. 

[01:14:21]Luke Storey:  Oh, yeah. He’s brilliant.

[01:14:21]Daniel DeBaun:  He's been doing it for 30 years. 

[01:14:23]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I'm looking forward to interviewing him, but yeah, I love the BrainTap. Last night, I was listening to one about manifesting wealth and stuff, you know. Because a lot of his programs have guided visualizations in things and it puts you in this theta state where you're very programmable and puts you in a position to use neuroplasticity to reprogram you. And so, he'll do these guided visualizations and meditations while you're under that state and kind of imprint you in almost a hypnotherapeutic fashion to take on new beliefs and to let go of old ones. It's absolutely fascinating. Yeah. 

[01:14:55]Daniel DeBaun:  By the way, that's how they've improved the ADHD response of the body that’s hypersensitive. That's how they did it. 

[01:15:02]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[01:15:02]Daniel DeBaun:  I've seen it actually change. 

[01:15:04]Luke Storey:  Oh, that's so cool. Exciting stuff. And by the way, by the time this comes out, guys, I should have, in addition to the DefenderShield products, I should have the BrainTap on my store, lukestorey.com/store. Speaking of store, I appreciate your time today and we've done a good job, I think, of sharing information with people without trying to slang products to them. But I love the products that you guys make. So, I'd like to just open the floor now for you to just, you know, give us a rundown of your product line, what devices they fit on, where they can find them, and things like that.

[01:15:38]Daniel DeBaun:  Well, as I said, we started with a laptop shield, the Defender Pad. It was done because I wanted to protect my sons and have grandchildren, which by the way, I don't have grandchildren yet seven years later.

[01:15:51]Luke Storey:  Thanks for nothing, boys.

[01:15:53]Daniel DeBaun:  You’re right. But I know they have their good sperm count. And so—but then, I told you the story about the 16-year-old girl, that pushed me into the cellphone space. I was really frustrated. It was anecdotal, but it really, for some reason, drove home the need to try to do something about it. So, we went into the cellphone. Ever since that time, we've kept on expanding our product lines, where we have earphones, earbuds, we have headsets coming out for the autistic. We're trying to create environmental EMF-free products for all people, not just kids, but adults as well. And so, we have a full product line there going. I'm a little sensitive to the—we talked about—you would actually—this would actually work for you. We have a blanket we sell. It's actually a grounded shield. It's a floating grounded shield.

[01:16:59]Luke Storey:  Oh, you know what, I got to one of those. I got one of those. Yeah. I've been taking it on the airplane. 

[01:17:04]Daniel DeBaun:  You will feel different from it because you're sensitive. And it really calms your body down. So, I didn't make it for you, by the way. I made it for protecting women who are pregnant because I know the womb is so vulnerable, but I've found out later on that it really helps the body, in general, feel more calm and it provides protection. We have sleeves, we have pouches, we have all sorts of different things. We're trying to build for the everyday use. If you want to look really older, like you're about 65 years old, we have a clip that you can put on the side on your belt. We have also that.

[01:17:50]Luke Storey:  Yeah, that's where we're going. That's my next step, you know, when you really throw in the towel. I think once—I can get away with that once I lock in a wife and settle down, you know, then I'll pull that out. Now, it might be premature. 

[01:18:03]Daniel DeBaun:  Well, a year or two from now, I'll give you a buzz. 

[01:18:06]Luke Storey:  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, that’s great, man. Listen, you know, I appreciate the work you're doing in the world and I appreciate when people make products that actually works. So, kudos to you and your team for that. In closing, I'd love for you to share three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life or work that our listeners might be able to go learn something from as well. 

[01:18:33]Daniel DeBaun:  I have a teaching. Life is pretty precious, you don't realize it when you're living it. So, I always talk about, look at what you’ll be thinking about on your death bed. When you're on your deathbed, what's going to be important? Is Luke's podcast going to be important? Is the—I represented the telephone industry with the FCC every so often. I thought that was really important. Believe it or not, it's not very important. There's not a lot of things that are important that are truly important to you. 

[01:19:10] And so, this is a ride we take. It's a journey that takes us to an end, but there's certain very important relationships you build in that journey and cherish them because that's what you're going to think about on your deathbed. To me, that was like pretty important and it's not theory for me. So, you really want to see it as hopeful hint on how you should think about your lifestyle. That's probably the most important thing in my mind. And it boils down to very simple, be aware of the life you're living and where you're going, and make sure it's where you want to go.

[01:19:52]Luke Storey:  Love it, dude. Thank you. And give us the URL of your website, social media handles and all that stuff. 

[01:20:00]Daniel DeBaun:  Defendershield.com, that's defendershield.com, and that's where we have not only products, but, Luke, we spend a lot of time educating as well. We have a learning section about 5G, for example. No one else has this stuff. We try to help people understand it. In fact, you don't ever have to buy a product from me. I don't care. But you should read and understand what it is your environment is because the more you understand, the more you control. And so, we have a learning section. We have the products under defendershieldl.com. We offer our products through Amazon, if that's where you prefer. 

[01:20:43] But if you ever need help, give us a buzz. We spend a lot of time having a staff of experts that can really answer all your questions about electromagnetic radiation. And I used to answer the phone all the time. I could never get off because there'd be finally someone who can help them understand their environment. It's not a time to panic, it's a time to understand. It's environmental. And we need to understand environmental of our lives. So, if you need to question about any subject outside of our products, that's fine, give us a buzz at defendershield.com.

[01:21:26]Luke Storey:  I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for your time today and thank you for enlightening me and our audience and I look forward to talking to you again.

[01:21:33]Daniel DeBaun:  Luke, thanks so much for inviting me again. I appreciate it. Have a good one. Thanks so much. 

[01:21:39]Luke Storey:  Okay, we did it. Sound man, that would be the edit. Daniel, when we hang up, make sure that you don't close Chrome because I'm going to stop that now and I got to wait for those files to process. And on your end, it could take a little bit of time. Oh, wow. It looks like I already got it. 

[01:21:59]Daniel DeBaun:  Oh, wow. 

[01:22:00]Luke Storey:  Wow. That was fast. I did one yesterday and my episode was three hours and it uploaded all night and I still didn't have it. But just to be on the safe side, if you could just keep-

[01:22:09]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah, no problem.

[01:22:09]Luke Storey:  Yeah, just keep that browser open until I've, you know, 100% confirmed that I have the files on my hard drive here, okay?

[01:22:18]Daniel DeBaun:  No problem at all. 

[01:22:19]Luke Storey:  And I think this one actually worked this time. We got everything.

[01:22:22]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[01:22:22]Luke Storey:  It’s going to be perfect.

[01:22:22]Daniel DeBaun:  And by the way, I don't know if I said it last time, I really did enjoy working with you because you're very casual, but your goal is to help people understand and you have enough understanding to ask the right questions and bring people the information they need. You did a very good job. 

[01:22:39]Luke Storey:  Thanks, dude. 

[01:22:40]Daniel DeBaun:  As you did last time. You did a better job last time, we just didn't record it. 

[01:22:45]Luke Storey:  No. That's good, man. It's all about sharing information and helping people, you know. It's like they’re—think of how many moms and we're still live stream, by the way, on my other devices, but think of how many moms, for example, are going to hear this, and then maybe think twice before they put a laptop on their pregnant belly. You know what I mean? Just that is having an impact on so many people.

[01:23:06]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah. We didn't talk about it much, but in-vitro, you interfere with—at the in-vitro level with electromagnetic radiation. So, if you have a tablet on your lap or a cellphone in your pocket, that's influencing the womb, the child that's growing in your womb. So, it's serious stuff. 

[01:23:27]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[01:23:28]Daniel DeBaun:  I think I even told you, I'm sorry, I'm rambling, I wrote a book, right? Radiation Nation. And one of the most well-known radiologists in the country read the book and he said, “I don't know if I believe this.” He knows ionized radiation.

[01:23:46]Luke Storey:  Right.

[01:23:47]Daniel DeBaun:  About a year later, he called me up and he said, I just had a woman come into my practice. She had a child, she was young, capably mobile using technology all the way around it. She had multiple—the child had multiple cancers. 

[01:24:11]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[01:24:12]Daniel DeBaun:  “I couldn't figure out why until I remember what you said. It can influence the womb”, which is true. And sadly, she lost the child almost immediately. 

[01:24:25]Luke Storey:  Oh, that’s crazy.

[01:24:25]Daniel DeBaun:  So, it's real. It's real. 

[01:24:28]Luke Storey:  It is. Well-

[01:24:29]Daniel DeBaun:  And a little bit of maintenance and you're perfectly fine. It doesn't take much. 

[01:24:34]Luke Storey:  Cool, man. All right. Well, thanks so much, Daniel. I look forward to talking to you again. You're going to be at Paleo f[x] next year?

[01:24:40]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah, I will be there. 

[01:24:41]Luke Storey:  Okay. Cool.

[01:24:41]Daniel DeBaun:  Yeah.

[01:24:43]Luke Storey:  I'll see you in the team there if we don't talk before then. 

[01:24:46]Daniel DeBaun:  Okay, buddy, thanks an awful lot. You have a good one. 

[01:24:48]Luke Storey:  All right. You too. Have a good one.



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