[00:00:00] Luke Storey: I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. John Lieurance, we're back for number 3.

[00:00:28] John Lieurance: Wow. Amazing.

[00:00:30] Luke Storey: Yeah, I'm so glad I was able to catch you. I love that so many people like you are visiting Austin these days, and I get to travel a little less and spend less time on Zoom.

[00:00:40] John Lieurance: It's magical here in Austin. It's an amazing place.

[00:00:43] Luke Storey: I got to say, it's an interesting place to observe this community grow and flourish. It's been almost a year since we got here, and yeah, man, I mean, there's no shortage of incredibly inspiring, productive, awake people that are just doing super cool things in the world. I mean, if I didn't have to work, I could be out every day hanging out with the most awesome people.

[00:01:10] John Lieurance: I know.

[00:01:11] Luke Storey: And the interesting thing is I think because it's a smaller city than LA, where I came from, people tend to kind of keep their commitments more and people really get together a lot. In LA, I mean, there's just so much going on and traffic is so brutal, you go, hey, man, let's hang out, and it just doesn't come to fruition often. Not because the classical like, oh, everyone in LA are flaky, it's just there's just so much going on and it's so hard to get anywhere there.

[00:01:41] John Lieurance: Well, it's so adrenalized in these bigger cities. I've never been drawn, I grew up in a small town, Kailua in Hawaii, just small little town, and even Siesta Key where I moved out after I finished school just was a smaller town, but Sarasota is starting to grow and get more like LA-ish. But Austin's got this, the land has energy, but it's attracting just some amazing people, like you said, to your point. It's like we were hanging out last night doing methylene blue IVs with Matt Bennett, and there was like 10 people in the room. Every one of them was just like incredible, right? And the conversations were just really empowering and really interesting.

[00:02:39] Luke Storey: Yeah, it's fun. I'm so grateful that I followed my gut and ended up here. And also, just living outside of the city a little bit is nice. It's much quieter out here. But if I want a little city action, it's there. So, yeah, we'll keep coming back. We got a lot to talk about here. I can't wait to get to Advanced Rejuvenation, your spot in Sarasota. And every time we talk, I mean, you bring all kinds of cool stuff with you, but you're like, "Oh, man, if we're at my clinic, we could do this. If we're at my clinic, we could do that." 

[00:03:08] I'm like, I got to get down there and just do the full thing, but I want to talk about a lot of the stuff you're doing there. Maybe we could start out by you just—because you've talked about a lot of different things in your two appearances. We've got one we'll put in the show notes, which we did with Matt Cook out in San Jose, and then of course, had you on for a solo deep dive, where we talked about all of the different delivery systems, suppositories, nasal sprays, all that kind of stuff.

[00:03:33] Melatonin, we talked a lot about in the last one. But I'd really like to kind of focus on the overview of regenerative medicine and root cause approach to things. I think our system is largely broken because we're looking at symptoms, and we're applying pharmaceuticals and surgeries to symptoms, and people just go on and live their lives, and until that kind of breaks down, and they end up sort of caught in that system. And I'm a big fan of staying out of that system, and just healing myself, and giving the body what it needs to regenerate. So, maybe you could just kind of break down on that.

[00:04:09] John Lieurance: Well, I absolutely believe that at some point in the future, they're going to be digging up bodies and looking at all these like hunks of metal, these like joint replacements, and like rods, and screws, and they're going to be like, "That is so prehistoric", right? Because what's happened with orthopedic medicine, regenerative medicine within structural musculoskeletal applications, it's just accelerated so tremendously. We got involved in this area of medicine much, much earlier than really anybody.

[00:04:46] And it was a result of a pain to purpose story, where I'm driving down the road, this is in Sarasota, and a car pulled out in front of me, and I slammed on the brakes, and I basically sailed into this other car. I couldn't avoid it. And the energy went through my leg into my pelvis and lower back, and I immediately started to have this like severe shooting pain down my leg all the way to my foot, right?

[00:05:15] So, I did what anybody would do, I went and saw an orthopedic doctor, and he ordered an MRI, and the MRI showed a bulged disc that was pushing on the nerve, L5-S1 nerve, which correlated perfectly to my symptoms. So, he referred me to what was at the time literally one of the top neurosurgeons, and this guy is no longer alive, but this guy was really like considered one of the best in the country.

[00:05:46] And so, he didn't even touch my back, which I thought was strange. He just threw my MRI up, pointed to the disk, and said, "Yeah, there's your problem. And I don't want to cut on your back, you're so young." I mean, I was in my late 20s, right? But when it gets really bad, and try to do your chiropractic, and do whatever you can, stretch, strengthen, when it gets to the point where it's so bad, then come back to me, and we'll have to go in there and probably do a fusion laminectomy, blah, blah, blah.

[00:06:19] So, I completely accepted that that was my reality. I mean, there was not even a question that this is like legit, and he was giving me great advice, but what was interesting is shortly after that period of time, a friend of mine who was also a naturopath, and he was just finishing up in osteopathic school in Miami, right? And they were taking some elective courses towards the end of their education with prolotherapy, right? 

[00:06:47] And we'll get in a little bit more with prolotherapy. It's interesting. But this is kind of like one of the earliest forms of regenerative medicine before stem cells really came on board. And it was primarily using dextrose, which is a hypertonic sugar. And basically, it tells fibroblasts to go into a state where they start producing collagen, so you can tighten and heal connective tissue and ligaments up that way.

[00:07:14] And so, I'd never heard about this before. And so, he comes into town with another student of his and they're just totally excited about this treatment. It healed their spine, and they were like just thinking like this is going to be their career. They're going to do these treatments. So, I told them about what was going on in my back and I remember like it was yesterday, because they were both—and we went into my adjustment room and they pulled out what was like a fishing tackle box, with the needles, and the solutions, and stuff like that.

[00:07:48] And so, I laid down and they felt around on my back. I had two of them working on me at the same time. And they said, "We think it's like your iliolumbar ligament, and your pelvis, and your SI joint, we don't think it's your lumbar spine at all". And they whipped out this book and they showed me all of these ligament referral patterns. And they said, "This is probably why a lot of these doctors get confused is because it could be a nerve root, but it could also be like your hip, your hip capsule, your iliolumbar ligament, your SI ligaments. There's like a whole host of different reasons that people can get leg pain, same thing with the neck and arm pain. It doesn't have to be the disc."

[00:08:30] And so, things haven't really changed from way back then. We have a medical community that is hyper focused on disc. You'll get an MRI if it shows anything that correlates, that's your problem, they'll cut on it. So, back to my original experience, so they said, they think it's this particular issue, and they said, "Well, there's lidocaine in with the dextrose, so we'll inject it, and then you'll let us know if the pain in your leg goes away and your back pain goes away, because the lidocaine will be active for about a couple of hours.

[00:09:07] And if we inject the pain-producing tissues, then that's going to be a diagnostic test that tells us, yeah, that we heal that up, we stop that from producing pain, and then that's going to be a root cause correction." And that made a lot of sense to me, and obviously, I'm starting to think, well, why didn't this like top orthopedic and neurosurgeon, why didn't any of those, because that sounds so logical, right?

[00:09:34] And so, they did the injection and the pain was immediately gone from my leg. And I'm like, I stand up, I'm like, you guys got to be kidding me, like this is crazy. Like I got this Harvard-graduated neurosurgeon that's telling me this, and then you come in, and you have a Tackle box, and you're not even graduated yet, you're not even out of school, and you guys figured it out, right? So, two or three treatments later, my problems—and I was like literally looking at like a career-ending injury.

[00:10:08] And so, that was my first experience and it was so compelling to me that I could immediately see the vision of how I could incorporate this technology into my practice. And so, we started using a blend of chiropractic, and exercise, and stretching, and acupuncture in different physical modalities in conjunction with these injections. And probably to date, I've had, I want to say, probably close to 10 different either medical doctors or DOs that have worked for me over the years, and it's just been incredible.

[00:10:47] So then, it's evolved over time, like we started to see all these extra things that can be utilized with these injections, and then platelet-rich plasma came along, right? So, it's like this fellow that was in town, he did hair restoration, right? And so, he was really involved with these machines that would centrifuge the blood to separate out the healing components of the blood, and he was a friend of mine.

[00:11:19] And so, he's like, "Listen, you got to look at this technology". And he brought the centrifuge over, and they spun the blood, and we did a couple of cases, and it was like this is next level. So, we got involved with that way before anybody even heard of it. And so, for me, I had another really defining moment in my career, where—so I was in Hawaii, right? I'm like in Hawaii, I'm like one of those crazy people that jump off cliffs and paraglide, right? And so-

[00:11:51] Luke Storey: Oh, my God, you are crazy.

[00:11:53] John Lieurance: Yeah. And I was launching from a spot called Crazies. So, it was like—because depending on the wind, it's Makapuu Bay. Anybody that's been to Hawaii, you kind of come around Sandy's. There's that really rigid like—it's called Makapuu Bay, and then you've got Rabbit Island, and then you kind of come down to Waimanalo, and then Kailua, which is where I grew up, is right there. And so, I remember as a kid driving up there and seeing hang gliders and so forth.

[00:12:22] And so, now, like there I am, I'm out there like actually flying these ridges, and it was just amazing. But there was one particular day where the launch was really difficult because the winds were kind of squirrely and the only place to launch was called Crazies, right? And there's all these lava rocks. So, a friend of mine goes out there, and he launches, and he gets off no problem, so I'm like, alright, I'm going to do this, right? I was like really, really nervous.

[00:12:48] But it was a bit of a botched takeoff, and I got pushed back into the mountain, and landed on my outstretched wrist. And I mean, it was lacerations, and then my wrist was bothering me, and it got injured. And I remember for close to six to nine months, when I would adjust patients in my clinic, like I had wristbands on and I thought, again, I was looking at like a career-ending injury, because it was like, how can you work on patients with your risk being so sore?

[00:13:23] And so, kind of fast forward, I was at a conference, where it was one of the first conferences, it was a tiny conference, too. Like back then, the conference is like 20, 30 people. Now, there's hundreds and hundreds of people that go to these conferences, because it's become so popular. And they were just starting to introduce ultrasound guidance, right? So, PRP and ultrasound guidance were like brand new.

[00:13:50] And so, I donated my body to be used as a treatment for other doctors to kind of observe. So, I'm laying there on the table, they drew my blood, they spun it down, I'm laying there on the table, and keep in mind, I'd had PRP on my wrist a few times, because we were already doing it in our clinic and it didn't work at all. Like I got swollen, but like nothing healed. So, I'm just thinking PRP doesn't work for wrists.

[00:14:18] I mean, such a general thought, like it doesn't work for wrist, it doesn't work for elbows, it doesn't—it's like the idea of how we thought about PRP is so naive when I look at it now, because sometimes, it might be more like you need more than one treatment for a certain area or maybe you're not injecting the right spot, right? So, that's why high definition ultrasound was such a game changer. So, I'm laying there, and they had flown in one of the doctors from LA, this female doctor that was doing the injection, and she had this guy doing the ultrasound guidance.

[00:14:59] And he was kind of like finding the areas that were damaged, and he's like scanning my wrist, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, I see this ligament's torn, and this ligament, and this triangular fibrocartilage. I didn't even know—at the time, I wasn't really as familiar with this particular piece of fibrocartilage that is a big support aspect of the wrist. He said, "Oh, there's a big tear in it", and my jaw's dropped and I go, this is game changer. Like I got to figure out how to do this because this is my calling. I'm going to master this. This is going to be my life's purpose to be like the mastered ultrasound.

[00:15:34] And what was great was that the guy that was doing the guidance for this medical doctor was a chiropractor, and he's written a bunch of books on ultrasound. So, I really connected with the fact that he really understood his anatomy and his ability to see some complex imaging with ultrasound. It's not an easy skill to hone. It's taken me years, and years, and years. So, it's not something a lot of doctors can go to a weekend course and like master. And that's why very, very few doctors really have a command over it, like Matt Cook is—I mean, just a handful, I would say. Maybe even like a hundred worldwide.

[00:16:15] Luke Storey: I got that sense when we were in Matt's clinic and he was doing the ultrasound-guided hydrodissection injections with all these growth factors and stuff. And I'm laying there on the table and he's got big needle in me, and it was so interesting, because he wasn't even looking at me. He kind of like looks down, and sees the needle go in, and then his eyes are just locked on the screen, and I'm laying there, and the screens facing me, and I'm watching this needle go in between the fascial plain, and like [making sounds] the liquid starts opening up the fascia. It was like I just remember laying there going, thank God, this dude knows what he's doing.

[00:16:37] John Lieurance: Well, that wouldn't be available at all unless you had ultrasound. There's no way.

[00:16:58] Luke Storey: Yeah. I mean, you'll literally just be like, I think the ligament's right there, I think I'm in the fascia. So, yeah, I can tell from subjectively experiencing it that it's not something that would be easy to do.

[00:17:08] John Lieurance: Well, where the rubber met the road for me was that my wrist like within a month was completely fixed and like I haven't had a problem with it since. And I mean, it was like almost a year of chronic pain and swelling. And so, that was just like, okay, this is absolutely the future of orthopedic medicine. It's like being able to inject something that works with the body, right? So, if you get an injury—so it works with the body, but accurately, right?

[00:17:34] Because you get the ultrasound, you can see and diagnose, and then needle guidance. But if you think about the way we heal, so if you were to tear a muscle, or break a bone, or have an injury, you bleed, right? There's blood that is in a liquid state that goes into those tissues, but then it turns into like a hard jelly material, right? And we think of that as like a blood clot, right? But what a lot of people don't realize is that's actually a graft. And so, the platelets within the blood are—they do release thrombin that activates that blood clot to form that hard jelly.

[00:18:21] But much more importantly, I think about platelets as these Christmas gifts, these packages of growth factors, and there's hundreds of different types of growth factors, and they're just showered, because they open up and they shower within this blood clot or graft, and one of the factors that's released causes stem cells to be attracted to the area. So then, stem cells migrate in there, and then there's other growth factors that will tell the stem cells to differentiate into different cell lines and to multiply.

[00:18:58] And so, this was actually the original thought of how we heal, and there's actually been a bit of a switch where we started to realize that there's something even more amazing that happens, whereas the stem cells are pulled into the tissues, and then the stem cells stick to the area where there's the injury and they're triggered to start showering these tiny little vesicles called exosomes. And those exosomes shower your existing cells and tissues. 

[00:19:28] And those existing cells and tissues through the exosomes, which it's really RNA that's in those, which is message. It's like information. So, these tiny vesicles that are like literally three to five nanometers. To give you an idea, a piece of paper is 100,000 nanometers thick. So, these are really, really tiny vesicles. And so, they shower, and they tell your existing cells and tissues to go into a youthful growth repair phase. So, it's not always like a stem cell comes in, and differentiates, and grows.

[00:20:02] That's kind of a bit of an older idea, so it's more mediated through exosomes. And it's really fascinating because both us have done Joe Dispenza, right? And the research that they were doing with the NASA scientists, where they're like, "Okay, we're looking at the blood of meditators, and we're seeing these particles that are between three and five nanometers", and they're like, "We concluded that they're exosomes". And so, there absolutely is something with regards to spontaneous healing that it does occur. I've seen it in my clinic. I've seen it at Joe Dispenza, seminars you have as well, right?

[00:20:46] Luke Storey: Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:20:47] John Lieurance: But there's this instantaneous healing that occurs, and then there's this delayed healing, right? Like sometimes, people get better two, three, four months down the road, right? So, we're a little bit rabbit-holing on a sidetrack, but I think this is a good place to like kind of shine the light on this, because it's really fascinating. Your microbiome actually secretes exosomes. And when I was at the Dispenza seminar, it's like it just hit me, I'm like, I wonder how the microbiome plays in that.

[00:21:22] So, when I got back after my first retreat, I just started to take a deep dive, and lo and behold, microbiome do secrete exosomes, right? And so, what I found is that your microbiome is much more adaptable than your own cells. And so, my postulation is that the spontaneous healing that people have with meditation and prayer is more mediated through the microbiome, where those delayed healing aspects are more from your actual cells and tissues-releasing exosomes, because that's what I see typically within our orthopedic treatments, is that it's not an immediate fix.

[00:22:05] It's like planting a garden. You can't imagine to go out there, I'm going to put some seeds in the ground, and next day, I'm going to have tomatoes, right? So, you're talking about growing new cells and tissues, that doesn't happen overnight. So, like for instance, if we were to use bone marrow on someone's knee and they had super rough cartilage, they had like bone on bone, it might be two to four months before they really start to notice a big difference. And it kind of slowly starts to build that way. And I think that's important for people to realize getting into it that it's not an overnight deal.

[00:22:41] Luke Storey: Yeah, that's been helpful for me with these types of treatments. I did a ultrasound-guided PRP maybe 2015 or so in West LA. And I forget the doctor's name, but it was new. I was like researching and trying to find something that would work, because I go get a massage on my elbow and I was like, not better. I think it was from when I switched to Apple computers, like the mouse, just the repetitive, weird action the arm's doing. And I went in and paid cash for this PRP, and I forget if I did one or two, but it didn't really help. It didn't work. And then, maybe a few months went by, maybe even a year, and then I realized my arm doesn't hurt anymore. But I had to consciously connect the dots, I was like, what am I doing different?

[00:23:34] John Lieurance: It's like the boiling frog, right?

[00:23:36] Luke Storey: I'm still using the computer. I didn't change anything. I wasn't doing mobility drills with my elbow. I was doing nothing different. And the pain to this day is gone. I've never had it come back. And then, when we went, and you and I were in Matt's clinic recently, he told me, he's like, "Dude, you're not going to walk out of here, and in two weeks, be like, 'Oh, my God, my back and hip are fixed'". He's like, "It's going to take time, and maybe you might even have to come back two or three times.

[00:23:59] This is a 25-year thing you're dealing with", but I was still hopeful and kind of fantasizing that I'd land back in Texas and be like, hey, it worked. It has gotten better and I've been doing a lot of peptides on it, too, but I think it is important for people to understand that even though this type of treatment is cutting-edge, and it's new, and it really works, but it's not like a one and done thing.

[00:24:25] John Lieurance: Well, he was pretty clear that he thought you'd need—and then we were supposed to meet for the Dispenza, and you were going to come into my clinic, we were going to do some boosters, and then all the stuff unfolded with your house. So, that all got canceled.

[00:24:40] Luke Storey: Life has been very, very fluid in the past year, yeah. But just for me to see a little bit of improvement, and looking back at just PRP, I mean, that wasn't even exosomes, and growth factors, and all this stuff that Matt and you do, just remembering that like, okay, it took a while, but it did eventually work, it did eventually take hold. And I've also had stem cells from a Dr. Joy Kong in LA. She did like a full body whole thing with me before I moved out here, and that was really great just for energy.

[00:25:13] I just felt like I handled the move out here, and didn't really get smoked from the travel, and loading, and coordination, and all that. Moving is always a bitch. And then, also did Dr. Harry Adelson, he and Dr. Amy Killen out at Docere Clinic in Park City, I mean, Amy did the cosmetic and like sexual health, so they injected my nether regions, and my face, and my scalp. And I don't know if I would have looked older or not, or if I had more hair or not, or if my wedding tackle was more effective, there's no way to quantify that.

[00:25:48] I wasn't really having any noticeable problems in that area. But Harry went in and did my discs, and he did my hip, and did all this stuff, and then, of course, people were asking me, because we did a podcast about it, did it work? Did it work? And I'm like, it's not a thing like, oh, you had something presenting, and then it's gone. It's like, did it improve, and what else did I do?

[00:26:10] And we talked a bit about this with you, and I, and Matt, but I think you're much more into the movement side of things and the other supportive kind of self-treatments and modalities that can go in, because it's like you can inject all this stuff in your joints, ultrasound, you can get it right in those ligaments, tendons, right where it needs to go, but if you're not changing your movement patterns at all, my thinking is that your nervous system still doesn't know what your ranges of motion are, and it's become kind of atrophied.

[00:26:41] And I feel like a lot of the pain in my hip is just 25 years of my hip telling my brain or vice versa, you can't move that way. And so, we're going to steal motion from other joints, your sacrum, et cetera. I mean, this just my kind of putting it together. And my brother, Cody, every time I go do stem cells or something, he's like, "Why don't you try moving your joints?" He's really into FRC and he doesn't really believe in all the injections, because he's fixed himself and a lot of other people just teaching them joint mobility drills, but that takes a lot of work and a lot of time.

[00:27:14] I mean, you got to commit to like 30 to 60 minutes a day to really turn around a dysfunctional joint. So, my thought is that what about if you're using all these injectables and doing it in an effective way with the guidance of ultrasound and all this, but then also making sure that you're starting to change those movement patterns? So, where do you think the intersection of the exogenous stuff that you can shoot in yourself and you just having the discipline to move in the right ways to actually facilitate a lasting change?

[00:27:47] John Lieurance: Well, I think it's interesting, because what I see emerging is like things becoming a bit polarizing. So, people are in the camp of like adjustments, or acupuncture, or movement, or exercise, or stretching, massage, or you have doctors that started getting into regenerative medicine, it's like they can fix everything with that, right? But it's a really myopic, ignorant way of looking at it, because I think that both of them have a lot of merit together and they do completely different aspects, yet they're so complementary.

[00:28:31] And so, the way I would explain it would be that it's like the word arthritis, right? The word arthritis, I think it takes a lot of power from people because they don't understand that word. They think it's like a cold that they catch, right? But the essence of that is it's a wear and tear situation of a joint. And so, what happens is that we have poor posture. We have different types of movement patterns or we have an injury, right? Something causes disruption to that joint.

[00:29:05] Luke Storey: Or a lack of movement, right? Sitting in a car for two hours, commuting, going to work, sitting on a computer for eight hours, then you sit on the couch for another three hours.

[00:29:14] John Lieurance: Well, if you have a joint, and you have cartilage that covers that joint, and you're only using that joint in a certain position, the cartilage is going to wear in that position and it's not going to get global wear, right? So, you're going to have like an uneven surface, which is like a rough surface. So, cartilage is really amazing stuff, like it's 10 times slipperier than ice on ice.

[00:29:42] Luke Storey: Really?

[00:29:42] John Lieurance: It's like you can't make anything like this synthetically, like your body is like incredible. And its half-life is 115 years. So, it's designed to last your whole life, but what happens is life, right? So, we get injured, or we have restricted motions or something that causes an imbalance to the joint, which then starts to wear on the structural support system of the joint, which is the connective tissue, ligaments, tendons, right?

[00:30:14] So, these are very dense tissues. And these dense tissues don't have a lot of blood supply, just like your fingers and toes don't have the blood supply that you might have towards things closer to your heart. We already know that they don't heal as quick, right? It takes a lot longer. I mean, anybody that's sprained a finger, I mean, knows like it can take like a long time before that finger really heals.

[00:30:37] And so, it's the same thing when you look at the denseness of the tissue, and cartilage, and connective tissue, are among the most difficult for your body to heal, because what it wants to do is bring in the groceries and take out the garbage, right? That's regeneration, right? You need that circulation to bring in the growth factors in the stem cells, and blah, blah, blah. And so, what happens is we get an accumulation of injuries just like if—like imagine like our clothes, our clothing doesn't have any ability to regenerate.

[00:31:08] So, if you had a shirt long enough, it would just disintegrate. It's the same thing with your ligaments and in some people more than others, they take a beating, and that connective tissue, so that you lose the supporting aspect of those tissues. And then, the articular cartilage can then move into positions that don't favor the cartilage to be safe, and to be approximated the way it should be, and the mechanics of the joint become altered.

[00:31:37] And so then, you get rough cartilage. And once the cartilage gets rough, it's like sandpaper, right? I mean, the rougher the sandpaper is, the more it's going to cause injury to the wood. You think about injury to the wood when you're sanding wood, but this is what happens in the joint. So, that's why I want to call arthritis loose ligaments, rough cartilage, because that's really what it is.

[00:32:01] Luke Storey: How much does calcification play into issues like arthritis and other joint problems, of having a lack of K2 in your diet, and imbalance of potassium, magnesium, too much calcium? Everyone's taking calcium supplements, drinking calcified water, high TDS water. Right. And we're getting this fibrosis and all of this shit going on. There's a guy named Matt Blackburn that talks a lot about this. And also, if the EMF plays into that, because it just open up the calcium-gated channels of your cells. And so, you're getting depleted in magnesium. And I think the piezoelectric kind of mineral thing plays into that somehow. I don't quite have my head around the whole thing, but*

[00:32:43] John Lieurance: Well, there's a lot of merit to that. And if people are taking high doses of vitamin D and they're not balancing it with K2, that's probably one of the most obvious ways that people are going to start calcifying tissues. But I think it's a bit of a—a lot of people think that like you have a spur growing off of the bone, right? Like you think about plantar fascia and you have like a spur coming off the calcareous, right? And so, what's actually happening is the attachment point of the fascia on the bottom of the foot become damaged. So, there's a term called enthesis, right?

[00:33:26] So, the enthesis is where a ligament or tendon actually interfaces with the bone, and it kind of like interdigitate there, and that's the anchor point. And this is the whole concept of prolotherapy and a lot of these injections is that you're addressing the enthesis. So, they call it an enthesiopathy. So, what happens is you lose that anchor point, it becomes weaker, and so the body, in response to trying to stabilize that area, will start to calcify into the tendon. So, it's actually the attachment point that starts to calcify, not this like weird projection of the bone coming out.

[00:34:05] Luke Storey: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, because I always think of it as just like when you look at barnacles and like something in the ocean, where it starts to kind of concentrate minerals and form like these big rock structures, I always picture it like it's something that's getting added to the bone. I never thought about the connective tissues actually getting that buildup. That's interesting.

[00:34:25] John Lieurance: One of the things that we see a lot of, and by the way, you can't see this on MRI and you can't see it on an x-ray either, especially within the shoulder and the rotator cuff, but on ultrasound, it's very obvious, especially if somebody knows how to read it, and you'll see it's called calcific tendonitis, extremely painful. And basically, it's acting like a razor blade sitting in your tendon. And what you'll see is you'll see tearing around that piece of calcium. And so, we do a procedure.

[00:34:57] Obviously, this is under ultrasound and we're using a numbing solution like lidocaine or ropivacaine before we go in and start to break that calcium up. But we'll actually, under ultrasound, like basically kind of poke at it to kind of break the calcium up. And then, you wouldn't want to do that unless you're injecting something strong to heal it up, because otherwise, you're going to destabilize somebody. But like if it's PRP, or if bone marrow, or some sort of placental matrix product, it works beautifully with. And so then, the body basically heals that area, and it reabsorbs that calcium, and then you truly have like a long-term fix for that condition.

[00:35:43] Luke Storey: What about this TRT machine?

[00:35:47] John Lieurance: So, that also works on calcium. So, TRT, Tissue Regeneration Technology is the company. There's a couple of other words that it goes by, is Stem Wave or Soft Wave, right? So, these are all brands that people have, because it's like TRT is just like an awkward name, like what does that mean, right? So, other practitioners have kind of changed the name to make it a little sexier.

[00:36:14] Luke Storey: I thought they're called testosterone replacement therapy, TRT, also.

[00:36:17] John Lieurance: Yeah, right. So, it's confusing.

[00:36:19] Luke Storey: I had someone that listens to the podcast, and I feel bad, I can't recall her name right at the moment, and it happened right when I have a great excuse, as in the middle of moving, and she emailed me and was like, "Hey, I have this cool thing. I've heard you talk about your hip and your back." And she lived up the road in Laurel Canyon, and invited me over, and she did the TRT, and we only did one session, but, man, I was like, she's reaching with that thing deeper into my hip bracket.

[00:36:45] John Lieurance: Deeper than anything else. Absolutely.

[00:36:46] Luke Storey: I've never felt anything that was like just knocking. Like I've done a lot of PMF and stuff, and you kind of get that feeling, but this was very unique, and I was like, God, I wish I was going to live here for a little longer, I would have just been doing that with her all the time. I haven't found anything out here.

[00:37:00] John Lieurance: No, it's the biggest game changer that we've been able to utilize in the clinic in the terms of getting deep into the body and actually stimulating growth and repair. There's definitely a number of injuries that—so no needles, no injections, like you can use this machine to heal a lot of things in the body. We treat like neuropathy, so it's great for nerves, any type of joint issues, spine issues. You can even treat cavitation in the jaw, because there's an antimicrobial aspect to it.

[00:37:35] Luke Storey: Oh, wow. God, that's got to be uncomfortable getting that thing on your face.

[00:37:41] John Lieurance: And it's hard on the ears, too. So, like I did some sessions and I had tinnitus for a while that I had to fix with the LumoMed that we do in the clinic as well.

[00:37:49] Luke Storey: Wait. Tell me about that, digress here, because I have tinnitus in my left ear, and I try to just ignore it, but sometimes, like if I can't sleep, that's when I'll notice it. Kind of like last night after the methylene blue IV, which I did at like 7:00, I was like, oh, this is not good. And then, I went home and did red light in my SaunaSpace just to activate the methylene blue, and I'm like I'm probably going to kill my sleep, but I just got to do it. But I'm laying in bed like that, I'll notice just [making sounds] and if I pay attention to it, it's maddening. So, what are you doing for that? My dad, who lives in Florida in the winter, he's got it really bad, it drives him freaking crazy.

[00:38:28] John Lieurance: Yeah. So, LumoMed is a regenerative treatment to the inner ear, and it's using laser therapy. And so, it's a very special laser that's utilized that can penetrate deeply and affect the inner ear, but not raise the heat, so it's safe to do for like—we typically do 30-minute sessions with this high-powered laser to the ears. And so, it's typically like a 15 to 20-visit treatment. A lot of our patients fly in for this. But right now, we're the only clinic in the US that offers this treatment, LumoMed. And people can check out lumomed.com. 

[00:39:09] And there's also a home unit that people use as well. But yeah, it's been a game changer for a lot of vestibular disorders, people that are dizzy and have balance issues. Of course, I utilize a lot of the functional neurology techniques that I've worked with over the years, and the endonasal balloon treatments in conjunction with using neuroplasticity with a lot of these cases that I find I can improve the balance with patients much more quickly than just doing the laser. But the laser is a nice complement to that. Tinnitus and hearing loss. Hearing loss, I've seen pretty amazing, consistent results with like pretty quickly, right? So, we typically see about 10 to 15 decibels of hearing improvement within that first initial session.

[00:39:59] Luke Storey: Wow. I got to get down to Advanced Rejuvenation, bro. Every time I talk to you, you like tell me the things you guys work on, I'm like, I got that, I got that, I got that, like, dammit, I got to get down there.

[00:40:10] John Lieurance: Yeah. Well, any time.

[00:40:12] Luke Storey: Yeah. So, you're seeing good results with both hearing loss, vestibular balance, dizziness issues, and the tinnitus with that. So, take me back to the TRT. We were on TRT for cavitation.

[00:40:25] John Lieurance: Okay. Well, so TRT is using sound and light, right? But that popping sound is basically, it's like if you were to take a lightning bolt and harness that energy into that wand, so like at the end of that probe is like water filled and there's like rubber, so you're using ultrasound gel, it's considered true shock wave, right? So, I mean, I hate to throw people under the bus or whatever, but like GAINSWave, it does not penetrate very deep and like-

[00:40:58] Luke Storey: This is the erectile dysfunction treatment.

[00:41:01] John Lieurance: Yeah. Well, we do that with the TRT as well. I mean, it's-

[00:41:05] Luke Storey: You put that on-

[00:41:07] John Lieurance: On another part, yeah.

[00:41:09] Luke Storey: Oh my God, dude.

[00:41:09] John Lieurance: But sexual wellness, right?

[00:41:11] Luke Storey: Okay. But you're turning it down in power, I'm assuming, because what she was doing with my hip-

[00:41:16] John Lieurance: It's different, like you can tolerate a pretty high setting on it with those areas.

[00:41:22] Luke Storey: Because I mean, I kept having her like ease up the power, but because it was on such deep tissue and a deep joint, I mean, she was really cranking it, but I was like, oh, don't get any closer to that.

[00:41:33] John Lieurance: Well, one of the professions that buy a lot of these machines up are urologists, because they'll treat the prostate. We have some prostate protocols that we use the machine on and we also do direct ozone injections in the prostate. We have some phenomenal results with prostate, anybody that's like waking up frequently at night having to urinate, they have a a swollen prostate, right?

[00:42:02] Luke Storey: Because you were telling me you do ozone injections into the prostate, so I'm assuming the prostate is like an empty cavity inside that organ. Is that how it works or is it a solid-

[00:42:12] John Lieurance: It's spongy.

[00:42:13] Luke Storey: Oh, okay. So, it's not like a hole in the middle of it?

[00:42:15] John Lieurance: No.

[00:42:16] Luke Storey: Because I was picturing like, okay, because I asked you to do that, and I'm sure we'll get around to it, but I was thinking like a needle goes in your lower belly, goes through the wall of the prostate, and then there's like an open cavity in there and you fill that with ozone. That was kind of how I was Flintstone-envisioning it, in a primitive kind of way. So, how does that work? Where do you go in? And how does it affect the tissue and reduce that inflammation or whatever it is in there?

[00:42:41] John Lieurance: So, the injection's done through the perineum.

[00:42:45] Luke Storey: Oh, damn. Okay.

[00:42:48] John Lieurance: But there's plenty of numbing that's utilized, and we also use laughing gas in the clinic.

[00:42:55] Luke Storey: We get a bonus nitrous trip out of it.

[00:42:57] John Lieurance: Yeah. So, we use that a lot with our regenerative treatments as well for patients. And it might be a good time to kind of shine some light on this, it's like this was this idea that I had to make injections a lot more comfortable for people, is I installed these transducers on the bottom of the table. And so, I literally play like really beautiful, like meditation music that they can feel and hear through the table. And so, I'll have people, they'll breathe the laughing gas, and then I'll just instruct them, I want you to just focus on the vibration through the table. And I mean, the feedback I've gotten is it's really, really easy to go through a session and get injections compared to without that.

[00:43:41] Luke Storey: Well, dude, think about cymatics, where you're taking sound wave, frequencies, those videos. I was watching one two nights ago where they have a metal plate, they pour sand on it, and then they run 532 hertz or whatever, snd it makes these geometric patterns, sacred geometry.

[00:43:58] John Lieurance: That's fascinating.

[00:43:59] Luke Storey: That stuff is so cool. I was thinking about that today when I was on my like Bulletproof Vibe Plate for a couple of minutes after I got out of the hyperbaric chamber, and I was like I got to find out what frequency this is, because all of the liquid in my body is going to be subjective to that frequency, and I'm probably doing that to the intracellular and extracellular fluid, and all the water in my body is probably getting some kind of a balancing effect.

[00:44:24] John Lieurance: I know he would be okay with me mentioning this, because he said that it would be okay for me to say this. But Doyle Bramhall II, you actually referred him to me, right?

[00:44:39] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:44:39] John Lieurance: And we actually did some PRP on his elbow and he was on tour with Eric Clapton, right? And you're like, "Hey, this guy is going to be in Tampa and I want to hook you guys up." So, that turned out to be just a beautiful friendship that we've cultivated.

[00:44:54] Luke Storey: You guys are like brothers from another mother.

[00:44:56] John Lieurance: He's like my best friend now.

[00:44:58] Luke Storey: For those listening, they're sending me pictures. Where were you guys, in the Bahamas or something?

[00:45:01] John Lieurance: St. Martin.

[00:45:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. I mean, it's like you guys know each other two months, and you send me these pictures, he's getting the laser IV, and you guys are just geeking out. It's so fun to watch that. I'm kind of envious, though, that I haven't been able to be there, I'm just getting pictures, I'm like, wow, this looks fine.

[00:45:18] John Lieurance: Yeah. Well, he came for his elbow, but then he wound up staying, I think, close to a month, and he stayed in—I've got a vacation rental on Siesta Key, and so I had him staying there, and he was just in no hurry to leave. He's like coming into the clinic every day. We're running a lot of the methylene—this new protocol we're doing in the clinic is just, I'm beyond excited about it, and it's an infusion of methylene blue with intravenous laser. And the laser has to be very specific to activate the methylene blue, and, gosh, I don't know how much we want to rabbit hole into some of these things, because we could be here talking all day.

[00:45:59] Luke Storey: I mean, as long as you don't miss your flight, we can rabbit hole all you want. I know we're jumping around a lot and people just have to catch on. But no. So, you were saying, we were talking about the transducers, and the effects that you get, and I'm just thinking about the compounding effects of sound therapy while you're inducing the body into a relaxed parasympathetic state. I'm assuming there's probably theta brain waves happening and you're becoming more receptive to the therapies. That's what I recall.

[00:46:28] John Lieurance: Well, you have a relaxation that happens, and the more tense people are, the more they're going to be feeling pain versus if they're relaxed. Pain is a personal, private experience, it's up to you. You got the sensation, and what are you going to define that as? What are you going to make that mean? And so, using music, I think, and sound really has a great application, and that reminds me of why I was bringing up Doyle's name. And so, that friendship has led to is us kind of collaborating on these different technologies using sound for healing. And so, we're working on some projects right now that, I think, are going to be just monumental. And using not only frequencies through sound, but combining it with something called scalar energy, similar to the-

[00:47:27] Luke Storey: The Rasha, yeah, we've talked about that. Yeah.

[00:47:30] John Lieurance: So, actually making some pretty interesting kind of upgrades to like going to a concert, where you can actually have these healing experiences for people. So, thank you for that introduction, because it's leading to some amazing things.

[00:47:46] Luke Storey: I love it. I love playing cupid and watching the synergy that happens amongst the people that I think would probably be complementary and would do something cool. You're like two people, in the case of you and Doyle, Doyle, incredible musician, explorer of consciousness, amazing human being, you have you and all this integrative cutting-edge medicine, it's like, huh, there's two geniuses in different disciplines, I just wonder what would happen if you throw them both in a beaker and let them shake it up.

[00:48:15] John Lieurance: I say it's the musician and the physician.

[00:48:19] Luke Storey: I like it. 

[00:48:21] John Lieurance: But people, what do you do? What do you do? Well, I'm the physician, he's the musician.

[00:48:25] Luke Storey: Phusician.

[00:48:26] John Lieurance: There you go. Yeah. But yeah, Doyle is a pretty special individual. I mean, he's really considered to be one of the greatest guitar players ever.

[00:48:35] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah. I saw an article the other day. He's a musician that he's not like a pop star himself. I mean, he's played with Roger Waters, and Clapton, and B.B. King, and Sheryl Crow. I mean, his resume is very impressive. But as a solo artist, he's not top of the pops. He like does his own thing and has his own vibe, but musicians, you say the word to any guitar player, and they're like, yeah, I read this thing the other day by John Mayer, and they're like, "Who's your favorite guitar player?" He's like, "Doyle Bramhall II. It's like he comes from a lineage, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and all these Texas musicians and stuff. His dad wrote a lot of songs.

[00:49:11] John Lieurance: Well, he's like royalty here in this town, right?

[00:49:16] Luke Storey: Totally, yeah.

[00:49:16] John Lieurance: I mean, this is his hometown. He was supposed to be here this weekend.

[00:49:20] Luke Storey: Yeah, I forgot about that. But when I was looking for places to move, I mean, it's funny because he grew up in Santa Rosa, which is where my mom and his mom lived. And we're about the same age and we never ran into each other, weirdly enough, but we have so much in common. But anyway, when I was looking around like, ah should I move to Arizona, or Idaho, or Oregon, or Colorado, or I want to get out of LA and just move to the mountains somewhere, and he kept telling me, "Man, you got to move to Austin. Austin's the spot."

[00:49:45] I'm like, Texas, it's kind of flat, like what? Cowboy hats, what? He's like, "I'm telling you, man, that's the spot". And then, eventually, we visited, and people have heard the story, listened to the show a lot, but yeah, so I'm always like, goddammit, Doyle, you were right, dude. It's awesome. So, now, I'm the one trying to get him out here. I'm like, yo, you told me to move out here and you don't come out here very much anymore. 

[00:50:09] John Lieurance: Well, I'm going to be jumping on a plane here in a couple of hours to go hang out with him in LA for a week.

[00:50:15] Luke Storey: Oh, cool.

[00:50:15] John Lieurance: Yeah, so blessed.

[00:50:16] Luke Storey: Great. So, back to the, you were saying you used nitrous oxide and the sound bed while you're doing treatments on people. Have you ever thought about or played with doing like a light dose ketamine for people like as a light anesthesia kind of thing?

[00:50:34] John Lieurance: Well, we use ketamine and use it therapeutically for mental, emotional disease, and improving consciousness, and so forth. And we also use it very regularly as an anesthetic for these procedures.

[00:50:50] Luke Storey: Like what it's meant for, like actually, yeah.

[00:50:53] John Lieurance: But it can be a bit intense to combine the laughing gas and the ketamine together.

[00:50:58] Luke Storey: Oh, god, yeah, I can imagine.

[00:50:59] John Lieurance: Like you really go off into space, right?

[00:51:01] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:51:01] John Lieurance: But some people need that. But yeah, no, we utilize like either an infusion of ketamine or an intramuscular injection. Really, I'd say, like when we're collecting bone marrow, that would be-

[00:51:17] Luke Storey: Dude.

[00:51:19] John Lieurance: It's really not painful. 

[00:51:21] Luke Storey: Really?

[00:51:21] John Lieurance: We have it down to a science that my goal is for people after the procedure to get off the table and say, "That wasn't bad". Now, there is a small subset, I would say, like 15% of the patients, where they just have a lot of pain receptors and they're going to feel some discomfort. But, man, the vast majority of people, with the sound and everything that we're doing around it, it's been really easy on people.

[00:51:50] Luke Storey: Well, I think this is one of the, I don't know, most exciting things about this type of medicine, it's not only what you're doing and that you're innovating, and trying all of these different modalities, and seeing what works, and refining that, and also discovering new things like TRT, et cetera, but it's also the environment where the procedure is happening. 

[00:52:09] Like when we were at Matt Cook's, I mean, his office is not like some hippied out meditation center-looking, it wasn't particularly vibey, but what was super cool is he played The Grateful Dead the entire time he's treating—like literally, we only listen to The Grateful Dead every day I was there getting treated. And suddenly, he's singing the words to me and watching the ultrasound, I'm like, this is what surgery should be like, man, like vibey. 

[00:52:30] Light some incense, put a candle, put on some good music. But what you're talking about is even another level of that, like let's actually make the healing experience that way to all of your senses, where it's not like this cold, clinical, scary, painful thing that we associate with any kind of a medical treatment. I think that there's a lot of room for us to move forward, and actually just the aesthetics of the clinic and just everything about it to make it truly more like a healing center, like what they do down the street at Alive and Well here, right?

[00:53:02] You walk in and you're like, this place is dope. There's water fountains and plants everywhere, and it smells nice. It's clean. It's well-designed. It's got great art. Just the aesthetics of it, you don't feel like you're going into a medical clinic. It's like, oh, what is this, a meditation center or something? Right? And meanwhile, you can go in the other room and do your functional medicine labs or whatever. There are some medical treatments.

[00:53:26] John Lieurance: I imagine Matt would agree with the statement, because I know when I have certain music on and I choose some very high vibration sounds and music, I go into just deep gratitude for being able to provide these treatments for these people, and already seeing where it's going to lead to, and just generally a loving state. And I think that that makes a huge difference on the results that we see with patients, because imagine, you're angry and you're like, I got another patient I got to get to, you're distracted, I think the intentionality with a practitioner with their patient makes a big difference.

[00:54:12] Luke Storey: Yeah, absolutely. Well, think about back to Joe Dispenza in the quantum field effects and the quantum entanglement, if everything is ultimately consciousness, and the density of our bodies and all these things that are breaking down that we're trying to fix, I mean, one school of thought is don't do any treatments and just go deeply into consciousness, and these plant medicine, and meditation, spontaneous healings, and things like this, no one's getting anything other than just up-leveling their consciousness.

[00:54:39] But I think that's a really important part of it, too, is the practitioner having that intentionality and raising the consciousness of the whole experience, so you're infusing that spiritual, or quantum, or unseen healing energy into the whole thing, then hitting it with the particle, which is whatever the injection or device is and kind of making it a really holistic, up-leveled healing experience.

[00:55:04] John Lieurance: I remember multiple instructors while I was in chiropractic school and even naturopathy. They would talk about manipulation and they would say, they've seen some interesting things where some doctors, they suck at adjusting, right? They're not good manipulators. And then, there are ones that are just perfect and beautiful at it. And what they found is that it's not about the skill as much as it's the intention of the practitioner, and that it might even be more important than finding the exact vertebrae and the exact direction. It might be what that practitioner's bringing to the table as far as delivering that adjustment may be more important.

[00:55:50] Luke Storey: Yeah. And also, the Bruce Lipton side of it, the biology of belief, right?

[00:55:59] John Lieurance: Exactly.

[00:55:59] Luke Storey: I mean, and the power of placebo. I mean, you could have someone come in and have all the intentionality and that person truly being willing to let go of whatever their physical blocks to healing are and having a truly surrendered experience, you could hit them with saline, and if they believe that that's this special, new kind of stem cell or whatever, like you could get, in some cases, the same level of healing from that.

[00:56:22] John Lieurance: Well, placebos are real—I mean, it's a tangible effect, right? And so, it's a situation where someone thinks that they're going to get better and they're able to like focus on an outcome that sees them more whole and healthy and that that actually becomes reality for them.

[00:56:42] Luke Storey: And nocebo, right? Someone that comes in and they're like, oh, this shit's not going to work, I've tried everything, and have a negative bias toward a positive outcome could also block the healing from taking place in the same way. I think that's a really important part of it. And with the issues that persist in my body, just pain and different things like that, since I've tried so many things on the physical level and I've made steady improvement, but I wouldn't say, it's all gone.

[00:57:10] I'm fixed, now, I'm approaching it more so from the level of consciousness and kind of in my meditations and such envisioning what it would be like to just be totally free in my body and have zero pain and inflammation, because I think I'm one that's just like go to someone like you, fix this thing. It's like, well, part of the work is on me, too, is actually believing that this body has the potential to be free of pain and to move within its natural range of motion again, like it once did, I can assume.

[00:57:42] John Lieurance: Well, it's interference to expressing the full vitality and health, right? And so, there's a lot of different interference factors that block people from healing and getting better. And so, I think that we covered some of them like mechanical issues can be a headwind for people to get better if they don't address that. There can be underlying, well, infection or toxicity, but really, the core of that is inflammation.

[00:58:15] So, there's different triggers that cause inflammatory reactions in the body. And so, if you're chronically inflamed, then the body's like constantly in like the survival mode, so it's not going to have a lot of resources for regeneration. So, some of these things need to be looked at, I think, by practitioners if they really want to see more cases, to thrive and get better with regenerative medicine.

[00:58:42] And we mentioned it before, I think it's a bit like the Wild West right now, so it's like you have this new technology that's being embraced by so many people, and there's like one thing I'd like to say, I'm probably going to get a lot of shit for this, but my personal opinion is the last type of doctor that you should look to for this type of treatment is an orthopedic surgeon.

[00:59:09] So, they're trained in surgery, like that's their wheelhouse. It is so different to do these treatments than it is to do a surgical procedure, but what I think people need to really understand is that a lot of these orthopedics, their skill set is with steroid injections. And like you could literally completely miss the area and you'll still get an effect, because you could inject the steroid intramuscularly and it's going to go systemic.

[00:59:39] So, like if you had a knee and you're going to do a steroid injection, like they don't even need to be like in the joint, right? And I honestly don't know one orthopedic that really has a strong command over ultrasound. They just don't have the time to really learn it. So, I see that with a lot of patients coming in, where they might be under the illusion that the orthopedic is the doc that really is going to have command over these types of treatments.

[01:00:07] But the prolotherapy, which is where regenerative medicine really stemmed from, and then evolved using platelets, and then different types of stem cells, and different types of growth factors and exosomes, blah, blah, blah, the roots of that are a very meticulous training where you learn how to assess a joint and be able to inject not just right where the pain is, but all the different areas that might correlate to really fully stabilizing that joint.

[01:00:40] It's like let's say you have loose ligaments on the inside of your knee and that's where the pain is, but you also have loose ligaments on the outside of the knee that are ignored because there's no pain there. Like that can create some instability in itself, right? So, that's where I see the orthopedics being poorly trained. They don't really have the time, because they're surgeons, right? But they have so many patients coming in asking them about it that it's like, all of a sudden, they've got this easy profit center that they can start hanging their shingle saying, "Oh, yeah, we do stem cells". But really interesting story, I had a rotator cuff tear and this was another defining moment, right?

[01:01:22] So, it was like crazy, crazy bad, and like I couldn't even lift my arm, and I had platelets injected into my shoulder a few times, and it would be better for a short period of time, and it was under ultrasound. I know it was going in the tear, but it wasn't quite fixing that tear, because it was actually a big tear. And so, there was an orthopedic in town and he put himself out to be the stem cell expert. 

[01:01:50] It's all over his website, and I knew him personally, but I didn't really interact with him on the level of stem cells that I really wanted to. So, I went in as a patient to see, I'm going to get a legit opinion, can I fix this? Am I wasting my time or do I need surgery? So, I go in there, the guy looks at my MRI, and he's like, "You are so wrecked, your shoulder's trashed here, and here, and here". I walked out of that clinic thinking I had no other choice but surgery.

[01:02:21] Like there's no way you're going to fix this with stem cells, right? So, shortly after is another seminar or a training conference. It was in Arizona. And I'm out there and this company called Mymedics, is like a brand new product that they're making, which was Placental Matrix. It's like they take amniotic sacs from like live births, and they turn it into this fine white powder. I know Joe Rogan calls this stuff Wolverine Powder, right?

[01:02:54] Luke Storey: Yeah, this is what Matt Cook used a lot of this stuff on me, the placental matrix?

[01:02:58] John Lieurance: No, no. So, that's more like amniotic fluid, but this is like a powder from the sac of the placenta.

[01:03:09] Luke Storey: Okay.

[01:03:10] John Lieurance: And this particular product, really, it shines more for like tendons and muscles, right?

[01:03:17] Luke Storey: I need to get some of that.

[01:03:18] John Lieurance: Oh, it's amazing, but you know what? You can't buy it anymore. The FDA just recently shut them down.

[01:03:25] Luke Storey: It works too well.

[01:03:26] John Lieurance: I'm like, you got to be—because we tried to order it just last week, and my office managers told me the bad news. So, I'm at this conference and they said, "We're going to give you a bottle". And I had a doctor friend that really was great with ultrasound-guided injection. So, I was like, perfect, alright, so we'll inject this into my shoulder. Anyway, bottom line is like a month later, my shoulder, I was back in the gym, lifting heavy weight and it completely fixed the rotator cuff tear.

[01:03:56] And if I would have accepted the opinion of the orthopedic, I would have gotten a shoulder like surgery. What I see with a lot of these tears with people is that they're complex. It turns into like a hamburger, so it's not something that's easily stitched together, and that's why most of these rotator cuff repairs fail. They don't have a longevity. And people go through a grueling rehab with these. 

[01:04:24] And I think it's totally unnecessary. I think with the right skills and the proper—these days, we'll use a lot of bone marrow for these and/or PRP, if it's a smaller tear. If it's a bigger tear, we need to kind of get some stronger solutions to fix it. So, that, I think, kind of sculpted a bit of my opinion on like, what type of doctor do you really want to seek out? Somebody that's a specialist with this, right?

[01:04:54] Luke Storey: It's experiential, too. It's not like, oh, I read this in a book that this way sucks and this way is awesome. I mean, you had that experience, and it's funny when you were explaining your orthopedic surgeon visit and him assessing your disks in the beginning today, I don't want to interrupt, but I had the same exact thing, dude, with this lower back pain. I went to the top guy in Beverly Hills, in the Ivory Tower.

[01:05:16] I had great insurance, because I worked in the entertainment industry at that time, so I could go to the best doctors, they were all my network, and all that stuff, and low co-pay. And so, I was like, I'm going to go to the best guy, my insurance is going to pay for it. And I think we did an MRI and he showed me on the MRI, he's like, "Oh, see these two discs, they're degenerated.

[01:05:32] They're smashed or a little herniated, I guess, might be the case, kind of squishing out from beside the spine. So, see, this disc is hitting these nerves, and pinched on these nerves, and that's going down, and inflaming these nerves in your lower back. So, we're just going to fuse these together", or no he wanted to like put in a fake disc, like a disc replacement, like, "We're going to take this piece of plastic and shove it in there", and just to him explaining it-. 

[01:06:08] John Lieurance: What could possibly go wrong? Right?

[01:06:08] Luke Storey: Yeah, just him explaining that to me, I'm just like, my gut's going, even if it worked, I don't think I want that happening in my body.

[01:06:10] John Lieurance: Well, the problem is the vast majority of patients, and I say this fairly confidently, because we use this initial prolo session with the lidocaine to basically tease out like where the pain coming from, and 90-plus percent of the time, it's the ligaments. And so, in fact, disc pain, when you have disc pain, you're in bed, you can't really move. You have a hot disc, you know it, right? So, most people, that's not the disc that's causing their pain. And in fact, after the age of 50, discogenic pain is extremely rare, it doesn't really exist.

[01:06:44] And so, another thing I wanted to point out, because you had your discs directly injected, most of the doctors that I know that do direct disc injections stopped, because it's like the idea is that that disk is holy grail, it's like holy ground. And so, you're sticking a needle through something that really needs to have integrity with a lot of pressure buildup. And so, I even know a patient that got an infection in their disc after this procedure and it was catastrophic, because you never get rid of that. I mean, this person's got a—yeah, I mean they're-

[01:07:23] Luke Storey: Gnarly. Well, it turned out okay for me, and I think Dr. Adelson did that using ultrasound also. I mean, I was under anesthesia, but I'm pretty sure that was the idea there.

[01:07:34] John Lieurance: Yeah. Well, it sounds good, right? And it's like there's a sexiness to, I'm going to get my disc, I'm going to keep my spine healthy and like plump, and blah, blah, blah, but I don't agree with that approach, and we don't do that in my clinic, and we don't have the need to. We have like 90-plus percent success with spines by treating the ligaments and the supporting structures. Now, sometimes, we'll need to go in and heal a nerve root, and you had asked me earlier about how we use laser, right?

[01:08:04] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah.

[01:08:04] John Lieurance: And like how can we get—so laser and light, our skin is designed to block that, right? So, literally like the first millimeter of our skin blocks like 70-plus percent of the light. So, that's for us to protect ourselves from the sun. So, to try and get a laser to penetrate all the way down to a nerve root or to try and get laser to shower articular cartilage in a knee or a hip is going to be impossible.

[01:08:36] So, we figured out a way to do it where we can literally stick a catheter and this filament that is like a fiber optic, that showers laser like right onto a nerve root and/or right into a joint. So, they call it like intra-articular laser. So, there are three different uses that we use with the laser, is we use intravenous, where we're using it with the methylene blue to activate it, and a lot of other reasons that we're using it for. We don't have time to get into all of those.

[01:09:10] And then, there's an interstitial, where you're going into tissues, so you can literally take the needle and put it right over a rotator cuff tear after you've injected it to activate the stem cells and the regeneration, or you can put it just adjacent to a nerve root, right? So, you can do an epidural, if somebody has like paresthesias, like numbness, or they have tingling, or pain, or muscle weakness, we can literally go in there and do like an epidural with a stem cell, or a PRP, or peptides, or something that's going to basically rejuvenate that nerve. And then, we can change out, and feed this catheter right into that same spot, and shower this laser. So, once it's through the skin, it's like the internal part of your body is like a big crystal. It just like magnifies the light. It's really amazing.

[01:10:09] Luke Storey: That's so cool. Yeah. I think you showed me a picture of that thing in an arm that was getting the methylene blue infusion at the same time, right?

[01:10:18] John Lieurance: Yeah. 

[01:10:18] Luke Storey: That's so epic. Yeah. So, for those listening, what we did yesterday with Dr. Bennett was a methylene blue IV with his Prexablu. He has this special formulation of methylene blue that's effective at much lower doses, basically, to say, and then they're shining the660 nanometers red light on the IV bag with the methylene blue, and then your blood in the bag, and then you're wearing these little wrist straps that are 660 to get that artery right there and get the light on there, and then he runs it through this thing called the Hemealumen. 

[01:10:53] John Lieurance: Mm-hmm. Full spectrums of light.

[01:10:56] Luke Storey: Yeah, UVA, UVC, and 660 red light. And so, they take your blood out, what is that, a liter? One of those IV bags or something, or half a liter?

[01:11:04] John Lieurance: It's between 250 mils to 500, depending on-

[01:11:08] Luke Storey: So, taking the blood out, and then running it through two times through these glass tubes inside the Hemealumen, and exposing it to all that light, which is incredible disinfectant, like blood irradiation, I think they call it, right? So, when you want to purify and sterilize water, what they do is they hit it with UV. So, you're hitting your blood with UV and sterilizing pathogens. It's incredible.

[01:11:31] John Lieurance: Yeah, it's incredible.

[01:11:33] Luke Storey: Yeah, super, super cool.

[01:11:35] John Lieurance: And methylene blue is considered photodynamic. So, there's like this photo biomodulation that happens, and methylene blue, so there's something called the cytochrome complex, right? So, cyto, meaning is cell, and chrome is light. So, we're actually designed to be able to use light to create more energy, it's within the cell, in the mitochondria. So, you have four complexes in this cytochrome complex and the red light works just on the fourth one. It's called the cytochrome C. Okay. What methylene blue allows you to do is to access all four of these complexes.

[01:12:14] Luke Storey: No way. That's crazy. That's what's happening, huh?

[01:12:17] John Lieurance: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:18] Luke Storey: That's freaking wild.

[01:12:19] John Lieurance: Yeah. So, that's why we were like, oh, we got to make a suppository with this stuff.

[01:12:24] Luke Storey: Which I don't want to be too graphic, but I utilized one of your methylene blue, what are they called? Lumetol?

[01:12:29] John Lieurance: Yeah, Lumetol Blue.

[01:12:31] Luke Storey: I did one of those this morning, was it 300 milligrams?

[01:12:34] John Lieurance: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:34] Luke Storey: Which is a lot. And then, I went in the hyperbaric, the whole thing. But I got to say, dude, I like all of your MitoZen. And for those that—we're talking about so much shit today, we'll make the show notes for this lukestorey.com/mitozen if we didn't already use that, but we'll put links to all this stuff, because I know when I listen to podcasts, I'm like, oh, my God, how am I going to remember all this shit?

[01:13:01] So, I put all this in the show notes, but your MitoZen line of suppositories, and we already did a whole show on that, we'll put that in the show notes for people that want more of that. But I was using the NAD, the glutathione, the high dose melatonin, and, dude, to me, they work better than IVs, and way, way, way better than any oral supplements. I mean, it's just not even in the same ballpark, the level of energy, and it's just insane.

[01:13:26] But the methylene blue ones, these Lumetol, dude, if I do one of those, I have so much energy for the next two days. I mean, it's just absolutely insane. And maybe you could expand on this part of methylene blue, but the way Matthew Bennett was explaining it to me yesterday is that methylene blue basically takes all of the electrons that NAD would use to make ATP, and just shuts the NAD out of the equation temporarily, and just basically produces a shit ton of ATP, which is literally like our gasoline, our energy.

[01:14:06] John Lieurance: Well, it acts as an electron donor. So, once methylene blue gets into that mitochondria, so your mitochondria, its job is to move electrons, right? That's why they call it the electron transport chain, right? So, in the process of moving electrons, it's a exothermic chemical reaction, so it produces heat. So, the body uses that chemical reaction to make ATP. And so, what happens is methylene blue gets into the mitochondria, and it just starts to shuffle and donate electrolyte like, here you go, here you go, here you go. So, it's like this unlimited amount of electrons just get shuffled into that system. And so, I like to think it turns your mitochondria into like some sort of a Tesla coil like crazy generator.

[01:14:51] Luke Storey: Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, because it really works. Methylene blue is just, I mean, I want to do like—I'd love to do a roundtable podcast with all the top people with methylene blue.

[01:15:03] John Lieurance: Oh, we should.

[01:15:04] Luke Storey: Dr. Scott Sherr and Ted Achacoso with Troscriptions, they're doing some really great things. Matthew Bennett, you. It's just like, to me, methylene blue, it's the ultimate wonder drug, because it does so much. It's antiviral, and we can't really talk too much about that, because of the communists that control our media.

[01:15:22] John Lieurance: Well, it was the first FDA drug ever approved for malaria.

[01:15:28] Luke Storey: Oh, okay.

[01:15:29] John Lieurance: Right?

[01:15:30] Luke Storey: Well, there you go.

[01:15:30] John Lieurance: Because a lot of the bad stuff that can grow in our body, viruses, bacteria, fungus, and so forth, it starves them of oxygen. It steals the oxygen, leaving our cells. Actually, there's a German scientist that coined the term magic bullet. And he was referencing a substance that would have profound healing abilities in the body, yet leave the body unharmed. And he was actually referencing methylene blue.

[01:15:59] Luke Storey: Really?

[01:16:00] John Lieurance: So, the word magic bullet was referencing methylene blue originally.

[01:16:03] Luke Storey: No way. That's funny, because you hear that in medicine a lot, like, oh, this is the magic bullet for this or that.

[01:16:07] John Lieurance: Yeah. Well, methylene blue is literally the magic bullet.

[01:16:10] Luke Storey: I got to agree. It's amazing. When I first found it, I think, was with the—I mean, I'd heard of it and maybe tried it, but when I got the Troscriptions, the Blue Cannatine, it was just like as a nootropic, I'm just like, oh, my God, put one of those in, sit down, do some work, just [making sounds] brains lit up. It's just amazing. And they have the nicotine, and caffeine, and CBD in that particular formula, but they also make one that's called, I think it's called just blue and it's like 16 milligrams. But Ted was telling me interesting thing, I mean, and I love the suppositories, because it's just like so much stronger, but I don't know if that would be for everyone. you have a more mellow one, that's what, 60 milligrams, the other Lumetol suppository?

[01:16:48] John Lieurance: Yeah.

[01:16:48] Luke Storey: And suppositories also might not be for everyone, but what Dr. Ted told me when I was recently in Florida, he said, there's a lot of ways you get methylene blue, but they put it in a troche to put it up in your gum to give the closest access to the blood brain barrier, and what they're going for is the nootropic effect, more so than anything. So, getting it close to your brain kind of made sense from a fundamental level, but this stuff, it's so cool.

[01:17:17] John Lieurance: Well, there's a whole idea with methylene blue and there is some research showing that smaller doses can be very effective, right? And so, some of the beneficial effects of higher doses can play more of a role with like an antimicrobial effect and also a mood uplifting effect. And so, we also are going to be—probably by the time this podcast comes out, we'll have a tincture, and then we have the nasal spray as well.

[01:17:50] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah, I got to try that today.

[01:17:52] John Lieurance: So, that gives people the option to do smaller doses than—so let's go ahead and put this caveat on. You absolutely should be guided by a health care practitioner with this, because typically, there's not a lot of bad things that can happen as long as you're within 10 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. So, for people like you and I, I mean, we're probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 700, 800 milligrams a day, but the challenge can become, if it's rapidly taken at one time, that there can be some really bad negative effects that can occur. So, that's why the suppository is so safe, because it's a really slow release over a long period of time, so it offers a lot of safety with that route of delivery.

[01:18:42] Luke Storey: Well, your suppositories take, typically, what, five to seven hours to dissolve?

[01:18:47] John Lieurance: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:48] Luke Storey: Yeah, because if you go get, like with your NAD suppository, if you took that same milligram dose in an IV, you'd be stomach-cramping, most people dizzy and woozy, and it's not a pleasant experience, but I could take—I don't know if I'd want to put five suppositories in, but I feel like I could do a ton of your NAD ones, even the strong ones, and I don't have any of those like flushing kind of effects.

[01:19:14] John Lieurance: Well, we put something called trimethylglycine in there as well. And so, it's a methylator and that really augments the negative effects. And in our clinic, we don't do a lot of NAD infusions anymore, because we found the suppositories to work actually better and they're less expensive for patients. And so, that gives us the ability to do other things with patients that they can allocate those funds to doing other things.

[01:19:41] Luke Storey: Yeah. Because the NAD IVs, man, I think the NEXT|HEALTH in LA, I got a couple of them, and I think they comped me, or gave me a discount, or something, but I think they were like 1,500 bucks. I'm like, dude, like-

[01:19:50] John Lieurance: Yeah, that's what we charged in the beginning.

[01:19:53] Luke Storey: That's lot of money just to like, oh, I have more ATP. I mean, that's nice, but like that's a lot of coin.

[01:19:57] John Lieurance: Yeah.

[01:20:00] Luke Storey: So, yeah. So, anyway, I'm super excited about the innovations with methylene blue and just support what you're doing with that.

[01:20:06] John Lieurance: I just finished writing an e-book on methylene blue and I'd like to offer, we do a giveaway of this e-book to your listeners.

[01:20:16] Luke Storey: Cool.

[01:20:16] John Lieurance: And it really takes a deep dive into the history, and all the applications, and all the different considerations that you might have and some ideas on how to take it and different ways to take it. So, I think it would be really valuable.

[01:20:30] Luke Storey: Let's do that. So, we'll put it at lukestorey.com/mitozen.

[01:20:35] John Lieurance: Okay.

[01:20:35] Luke Storey: Yeah, because I think I've used /john for you or someone else before. /mitozen and we'll put a link to that e-book in there. You're cranking them out, because you just did the melatonin one, which is freaking amazing. And I'm tempted to go on to the melatonin more, because it's so fascinating, but we did do a very dedicated like two-hour show to that.

[01:20:53] John Lieurance: Yeah. And it's equally as fascinating as methylene blue. Like I consider methylene blue and melatonin to be like both fascinating molecules with equal potential.

[01:21:05] Luke Storey: Yeah, I agree. Well, I mean, the results some practitioners are getting with methylene blue, and viruses, and things like that are very impressive, to say the least.

[01:21:17] John Lieurance: Very, yeah.

[01:21:18] Luke Storey: And also, I learned yesterday that there are reports of people having really good results with minimizing the damage of the experimental medication that's prevalent at the moment as well and from also being exposed to people that have elected to experiment on themselves. 

[01:21:37] John Lieurance: Yeah.

[01:21:37] Luke Storey: Let's let people read through the lines.

[01:21:38] John Lieurance: Well, I was talking to Robin and Dr. Matt last night, and they were telling me that they were doing some clinical research on using the Prexablu to decrease some of the side effects people are getting with the vaccine.

[01:21:57] Luke Storey: You just said the word I was trying to skate around. Well, I don't know.

[01:22:01] John Lieurance: You can bleep. Bleep it.

[01:22:03] Luke Storey: No, it's fine. Like I don't even know what you can say or not anymore.

[01:22:08] John Lieurance: I think it might be loosening up a little bit.

[01:22:10] Luke Storey: Generally, podcast are kind of safe, but definitely on social media. That's why I have a Telegram channel, lukestorey.com/telegram. When I find compelling research about these topics and news, I just throw it all in my Telegram. It's really like a pretty depressing channel, because it's like all the bad news, but also some of the positive news like this that you can't really talk about on Instagram or something like that. So, anywho, it's a crazy time we live in. Tell me about this other thing you use in your clinic, the CVAC.

[01:22:43] John Lieurance: Oh, the pod.

[01:22:44] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:22:45] John Lieurance: Yeah.

[01:22:45] Luke Storey: I've seen one at Upgrade Labs. They had one. I never managed to get in it, but it seems to be pretty, pretty, insanely cool.

[01:22:51] John Lieurance: Yeah. So, Nick Bollettieri, the famous tennis coach, he coached Monica Seles and a few other famous coaches, but he actually was the inspiration for me to get the CVAC. He had a wealthy friend and he said, "This person is not using this machine. You might have some benefit in your clinic." So, he kind of connected me with this person, and we bought it from them, and they're very expensive. They're a $150,000 for one of these machines. So, I got a little bit of a deal on it, but it was still really expensive.

[01:23:34] But CVAC stands for Cyclic Variation and Adaptive Conditioning. So, it's actually a hypoxic effect. So, hyperbaric is like concentrating oxygen, where when you're in the pod, you're going to altitude, but you're changing, and there are different programs, so like you'll do a questionnaire with patients, and then it'll feed them into a specific protocol that will—it's like a certain graph where the pressure can slowly go up, and then dramatically drop or dramatically goes up and slowly drops.

[01:24:09] And so, it's like this specific program that is geared towards that person's constitution. And it's the change in pressure that has some really magical things in it. It turns on all these amazing genes, these stress response genes. And besides that, so you have all the benefit that you would have from like hyperbaric, such as stem cell activation, increased oxygen absorption, mitochondrial biogenesis, but you also have the effect where it's moving lymphatic tissue and the glymphatic tissue, which is the gutter system in the brain.

[01:24:48] So, you have this strong activation where your body is almost like getting milked, where it's just pumping. So, we found early on the huge benefit of using the CVAC after an infusion, like if you do a high dose vitamin C or after we do methylene blue, we'll put them in the CVAC. We do some really interesting protocols with ozone, I call RejuvenOX. It's a high-dose magnesium. We infuse ozone, and then we'll put them in the CVAC, and some of these protocols are really, really, really impressive.

[01:25:23] Luke Storey: Dude, I got to come down to your clinic, and stay there for a month, and just do all this shit. I love learning about this stuff and I really love doing it. It's just so interesting, especially considering, right, you're born in a hospital, you get all these shots, some of us are circumcised, I mean, all this fucked up stuff happens to you, right? And then, you're on Froot Loops and Twinkies, and then you're a teenager, I'm not speaking for everyone but me, right?

[01:25:50] Then, you start smoking cigarettes, and doing drugs, and eating shit food, fast food, and then your body breaks down, and then you go back into that system where you were born to fix everything that you've done to yourself or that's happened to you, and so on. And next thing you know, you're on five pharmaceuticals, and you've had three surgeries, and you're 80, and you can't walk across the street without a walker. I'm just like, God, there's another way to do this.

[01:26:15] John Lieurance: No, you've got to come out at some point. So, by the time I get back to Florida, we're actually in the process of moving from a 3,000-square foot location to a 15,000-square foot location. So, we're just outside of downtown Sarasota, but we have a large warehouse. We're going to have an event center. We're actually going to have apartments that are like fully EMF-protected and like there's literally hydrogen water and like super filtered water in those apartments, so people can stay there. And we have MitoZen in that we're going to be fulfilling orders through there. And then, we have 5,000 square feet that's all going to be clinical space.

[01:26:59] Luke Storey: So cool, man.

[01:27:00] John Lieurance: Yeah.

[01:27:01] Luke Storey: What other things do you guys work on there? I know you work with Lyme and some other kind of chronic issues that are difficult to treat. What are some of the things that you specialize in or that you really like to work on because they're tough for people to overcome?

[01:27:17] John Lieurance: Well, my belief is that most diseases come from either infection, or toxicity, or both, right? And so, that's at the core. And so, that inflammatory reaction to those stressors results in like poor energy production, right? So, it literally shifts the energy from being, through the electron transport chain like we talked about earlier, to a very primitive form of making energy that literally is like 10%t of what you would normally make, right?

[01:27:49] So, I believe that that expression of that lack of energy is showing up in people in different ways, right? So, it could be poor immune function, because they don't have the energy to fight the infection or they don't have the energy to detox their body properly. And so, these things kind of cascade with people. So, autoimmune disease, I mean, we do a lot of work with mold and biotoxin illness with patients. Epstein-Barr and chronic viral infections.

[01:28:20] So, we do that, and then I have this subset of my practice, because I'm a chiropractic neurologist as well. And so, we use the endonasal balloon manipulations in conjunction with specific neurological exercises. And then, we're able to utilize a lot of these other things that we do at the clinic, like the LumoMed, and the different infusions, and so forth to like create really awesome, custom treatment protocols for patients.

[01:28:50] Luke Storey: Dude, I just thought of Dr. Lana's work, Think, the Think Interfaces.

[01:28:55] John Lieurance: That's going to happen, yeah.

[01:28:56] Luke Storey: Dude, if you have that in there.

[01:28:59] John Lieurance: Yeah, I just had two days with Dr. Lana, and it's like we're going to be definitely collaborating on some things and bring her technology.

[01:29:10] Luke Storey: I'm so glad that you guys—again, one of those like things where I'm just seeing, I don't know, it's the way my brain works, is just connectivity. I'm like, okay, Dr. Lana is doing this stuff, he's into functional neurology, he's working with people with Parkinson's, MS, like neurological issues, dopamine regulation issues, I'm assuming, she fixes dopamine regulation issues, I'm like, bing, get together, like let's do something. So, that's so cool. I'm glad you guys got together.

[01:29:36] John Lieurance: I mean, some of the videos that she showed me were just incredible. I mean, Parkinson's patients like walking normal and having normal like facial gestures. And there was the children, and the response to like autistic children and children with attention deficit disorder, hyperactivity, there were patients with chronic anxiety and PTSD, just in very rapid results. So, she trained me for two days the last two days, and like it's just I feel so focused and some of the-

[01:30:16] Luke Storey: It just gets better, dude. When you do five in a row, I'm sure you guys will reconvene. But I did, I think, five or six with her at first, and I was having a really challenging time. I mean, it's just like divine intervention. She shows up, I think, to look for a place here in town, hadn't moved here yet. Yeah, she was staying at a hotel, that ironically enough, we're not in our house, but she was a five minute walk from our house, her hotel. So, yeah, I went over there and I was in a pretty, pretty bad state. I have not been kind of stuck in a fight or flight response like that in a very long time, because I-

[01:30:49] John Lieurance: Well, I remember it, because you and I were going back and forth, and we were using melatonin to hep with that.

[01:30:56] Luke Storey: Yeah. It was all the shit with the remodel, and it just went sideways, and I didn't know what to do. And it was bad. So, it was kind of a PTSD, anxiety thing. And I was like, Lana, help me. And not only did like all of that anxiety subside and I was able to get back into kind of emotional homeostasis, but I had a great deal of clarity on how to actually handle it . And that was a lot of the anxiety, was just so mentally overwhelming, and it's just new stuff that I've never done.

[01:31:23] And I'm just like, how do I fix this? I could not figure it out, just the legality of it, and logistics, and everything. And so, like she cleared my brain up enough to go, oh, I see what I got to do, X, Y, and Z, boom, and executed it. And also, I had the wherewithal, I had to do like a very thorough kind of forensic audit of a lot of spending and disagreements between this contractor and all this shit, which, dude, like that type of focus-detailed like administrative work makes me nuts. It's not my superpower.

[01:31:55] John Lieurance: Yeah, but you were able to do it effortlessly.

[01:31:58] Luke Storey: Dude, I sat there for three days straight and I put together a very compelling, extremely thorough case for like, okay, this is how we stop this from happening. And I sent that to an attorney and he was just like, "Who did this?" And I was like, I did it. He goes, "Do you want a job?" You know what I mean? It's like he goes, "You would have had to pay me so much money to have a paralegal put all this shit together." I did end up, I'm not a litigious person, it wasn't worth it to me to pursue that, but I needed to present a case in order to extricate myself from a really toxic business relationship, you could say.

[01:32:31] And yeah, I'm like freaking Lana, man, she fixed it. And then, I went back and did another five recently, and I'm just—it's interesting, though, because, okay, I have a baseline of like productivity, and focus, and creativity, and general well-being mentally, just my brain works a certain way, right? And there's a certain number of things I can get done in a day, and hold in mind, and different plates I can kind of spin, right? And you're at your level, and you think, I'm functioning pretty well. What's tricky about the Think training is that your baseline goes up so high that you very quickly get used to that as being normal.

[01:33:05] So, it's like, I have to really sit back and go, okay, like let me take my to-do list on any given day, and how much I can actually get done, and how focused I can be and not be distracted by my phone, and like getting myself caught up in busy work, just because it's the easy work, but it's not the important work, like facing, eating the frog, as they say, like sitting there at the desk and like doing the hard thing that requires a lot of attention or maybe courage, in some cases, that one email you're afraid of rejection, that type of thing, you're like, I'll do that later, the deep dive kind of work.

[01:33:38] And so, now, I've had to like assess my baseline and go, okay, three months ago, there's no way I could be doing what I'm doing now, just the things that—I mean, life just got really busy and complex. And so, I have to keep reminding myself like, no, this is the new normal and also be aware of the fact that what she has done for me has just been so profoundly impactful.

[01:34:00] John Lieurance: And the lasting changes are impressive.

[01:34:03] Luke Storey: It's permanent, yeah.

[01:34:04] John Lieurance: And these are the type of modalities that I'm very attracted to, to bring into my center, because it's right in lines with my philosophy, is like using things that actually work, and work really well, and have lasting changes with people. When I was training this morning, I really got it at a real—like I just got her, the creation, while I was training. And so, the way I would describe it is that your nerves are communicating with each other through neurotransmitters, right?

[01:34:40] And so, what happens is we pulse these, like we go boom, and the neurotransmitters fire, and then they're gone, right? And so, the flow state, you hear about like athletes, and artists, and so forth getting into that flow state, where there's a constant connection with those nerves, where they're like just together and it's very smooth, right? And so, that's what the program allows you to do is to go, and make these connections, and hold on to that effortlessly, though. So, you're not actually working or making an effort to maintain those connections, it's like it's training you to do it with zero effort like Jedi Mind.

[01:35:23] Luke Storey: That's a cool observation, because I'm always chasing after the elusive flow stage, because it feels good, you get so much done, and you're happy. It's just awesome, right? Like skiers or like you're paragliding, whatever kind of thing. So, I'm always, I'll do some breath work, or I'll move this way, or do that, or listen to certain music and try and get myself in the zone, but it's kind of a ramp up process, and I'm never sure exactly what worked. And I find now even—there's something else interesting. 

[01:35:53] Some days, just due to the busyness of my life, I kind of skipped my morning meditations now. And throughout the past 25 years, that's just non-negotiable. I do not interface with the world, my phone, business, people unless I take a good 30 to 60 minutes, and just really go inward and get myself prepped. And that's part of me being able to access that flow state at some point during the day. And I've noticed and I still enjoy it more when I can still do that, but I'm not as dependent on that morning time. Like today, I didn't do it. I got up, and kissed the wife, and fed the dog, and was just like, I got to go, and ran out of the house.

[01:36:30] John Lieurance: Yeah. Well, I remember when we were on a trip together in California, like you were like in there for an hour, and you're doing your meditation, and admittedly, when I travel, sometimes, my meditation practice kind of goes on the side, but you were like so committed, and I was impressed, actually.

[01:36:48] Luke Storey: I have been for a very long time and I'm sure that I will be, because I still see the benefit in that, but there has been a difference with the Think training, of just being able to kind of not have to do a bunch of things.

[01:36:59] John Lieurance: So, meditating not because you have to, but because you want to, right?

[01:37:03] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:37:03] John Lieurance: So, it's not like you're having to fix a problem with the meditation, right?

[01:37:06] Luke Storey: Yeah, totally.

[01:37:08] John Lieurance: That's beautiful.

[01:37:08] Luke Storey: Because before, it's like, hmm, I'm not going to be as focused or be in as good of a mood today, so I need this. It's like my medicine, right? In the morning, like I got to meditate, get in the zone, and then I can perform and execute. But yeah, it's been interesting. And I don't always have to do that now. I feel like I can just kind of get up and go.

[01:37:27] John Lieurance: I think for me, what's really drawn me into that like I have to meditate is like this almost anxiety like kind of angst that you kind of get, where you're like too excited and you just want to kind of like ground yourself a little bit, and that's probably a really common reason that people will do that. And with Lana's work, is you get into that flow state and it allows you to be in that place without—so then when you go in and meditate, like now, you're able to like work on so much more higher conscious levels, right?

[01:38:05] Luke Storey: True. Yeah, exactly. You're not just kind of quelling the fire of anxiety.

[01:38:09] John Lieurance: Yeah, you're doing some real work now, right?

[01:38:11] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:38:11] John Lieurance: It's like I'm not just like doing some emergency patch working, we're like-

[01:38:18] Luke Storey: That's true. That's very true. Yeah. And I noticed one thing about it, too. For those listening, we're talking about Dr. Lana Morrow. We'll put the episode that we're referring to in the show notes at lukestorey.com/mitozen. But another thing I noticed, and this didn't persist, but in the subsequent days after doing the training with her, my HRV scores at night were a lot higher. I was like up in the high 60s, and normally, kind of 40s to 50s is kind of my range. I mean, 40s on a bad day, 50s is probably my average, and I was like, what? I got a 67. I was like, what? But then, it kind of went back to my normal 50s. But that was another interesting thing about it, and I forgot to ask her like, why did that happen?

[01:38:58] John Lieurance: Well, it's like putting your parasympathetic nervous system more online, and that's where you're kind of getting out of that stress response state. And melatonin is a great way to do that as well. And that's the primary thing that melatonin gives us, is when you think about when you go to sleep, this is like the ultimate like regenerate, calm down, relax. And so, we see patients when they start going on some of the super physiological melatonin dosing of like 100, 200 or more milligrams at bedtime, their HRV just goes nuts.

[01:39:36] Luke Storey: That's true, actually. When I use your SandMan suppositories, the high-dose melatonin, which, again, we did a whole show on, for those that want a deeper dive, my HRV scores are also very high when I do that. Yeah, reliably. And my whole sleep architecture is just insanely cool. I think we were talking about people metabolize melatonin quicker or slower, and I don't do those as much as I would like to, because sometimes, they're in the refrigerator, because you don't want them to melt, right? The MitoZen suppositories I'm speaking of. So, if I don't get home early enough, I won't take it, because I'm just kind of too sleepy the next morning. But if I take it right-

[01:40:09] John Lieurance: Well, you're a slow metabolizer, right? 

[01:40:09] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:40:14] John Lieurance: We talked about that.

[01:40:15] Luke Storey: Yeah, if I take it right at dusk, I'm going to get like 95 sleep score, two-and-a-half hours of deep sleep, great REM, and I'm going to wake up feeling awesome, like when the sun comes up.

[01:40:26] John Lieurance: So, anybody listening to this that might be wanting to embark on starting to do higher doses of melatonin or even lower doses, if you're sensitive to caffeine, so like if you're one of those people that have coffee, but like you have to do half the amount, and it lasts longer than what you see other people reacting with, then it's the same pathway that you're breaking down and metabolizing melatonin as caffeine.

[01:40:51] So, most people know that that's them. So, if you are one of those people, then we're finding that dosing much earlier, because by the time you wake up, it's metabolized out. And so, if you have light in your eyes, it's not going to activate the melatonin in your brain, so you're not going to get that sleepiness. At least 80% of the people won't. So, you can get by with taking it like you said, like before or after dinner.

[01:41:17] Luke Storey: Well, also helps me change my circadian rhythm if I've sort of slipped into my normal modus operandi, which is like the wolf cronotype or whatever it is, like I don't get tired until like 2:00 in the morning if I'm just doing my thing. I have to really make a concerted effort if I want to get to bed by 10:00 and actually fall asleep. So, I'll do one of those at dusk, then I put on my GILDED blue-blocking glasses. You can find those at gildedbylukestorey.com, my new blue-blocking eyewear line, but I'll put those on, and, dude, I am smoked by 9:00. I mean, like usually Alyson gets tired around 9:00 and we'll watch a movie, she's out every time, never finishes a movie if we start it like after 9:00.

[01:41:58] John Lieurance: Blue-blocking glasses for nighttime, it's like the biggest game changer. And if you take your glasses off while you're watching TV, like you can immediately feel energized, and then you put them down, it's like calm. So, anybody that hasn't figured that out yet, like you've got to get these glasses. They're amazing.

[01:42:20] Luke Storey: But the SandMan suppositories and the blue-blocking glasses, like that's the only thing that makes me tired when I want to be tired, like start winding down at 9:00, and be in bed and asleep by 10:00, which is still rare for me. But when I do it the next day, I'm like, God, why don't I do this every day? I feel amazing, because I can wake up, and sun gaze at dawn, and like my whole day is just like so stretched out, right? There's just so much more time in the day. I'm like getting to work at 11:00, like sitting down at the computer for the first time.

[01:42:45] John Lieurance: And this is a good subject, too, because really, I think the overwhelming subject is regenerative medicine that we're talking about today. And so, if you're not getting quality sleep, that's when your body repairs these ligaments and repairs the cartilage, so you really want to be looking at improving your sleep. And there's another hack that I figured out with regenerative medicine as well, is, very well documented in the research, is CoQ10 and something called fucoidan, which is an extract of a brown seaweed.

[01:43:20] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah, you have this and those ingredients in some of your suppositories.

[01:43:23] John Lieurance: StemZen.

[01:43:23] Luke Storey: Yeah. Okay. I've noticed that. Yeah.

[01:43:24] John Lieurance: Yeah. StemZen was actually designed for two things. One is as a potential supplement for somebody after they do a fasting protocol, because you release stem cells and you want to—so what these two substances do is they improve the survivability of mesenchymal stem cells. And so, what happens is that when we produce stem cells, or if I took stem cells from a placenta, or if I took stem cells from your bone marrow, or your adipose tissue, or wherever, and I inject it into your knee, a certain percentage of those stem cells are going to become senescent, meaning that they're going to go to sleep permanently, and that's it.

[01:44:07] Luke Storey: Huge waste of money.

[01:44:09] John Lieurance: So, it's a waste of money. So, minimizing those stem cells from going senescent is huge, right? And that's where fucoidan and CoQ10 really, they shine. So, we only have that in a suppository, so we'll have people dose that for a week to a month or more following regenerative treatments. But also, like I said, we have that fast track, fast protocol that we designed for accentuating the signaling factors of fasting, where we have people preload with NAD, with the NAD+Max, and then the Lucitol works to accentuate autophagy and cleaning up those senescent cells in the body.

[01:44:42] So, you don't want these senescent cells, actually, because they're very inflammatory, and they're linked to a lot of aging and disease. So, your body, when it's in a fasting state, actually starts to clean those up and recycle them into healthy new cells. So, the fisetin, and the sterile still being, and some of the other polyphenols in Lucitol are incredible as senolytics and they actually further accentuate autophagy.

[01:44:42] Luke Storey: You just reminded me of something that wasn't in my notes that I wanted to cover. Let's talk about recovery from psychedelics and plant medicine journeys.

[01:44:42] John Lieurance: Oh, yeah.

[01:44:42] Luke Storey: Because I've used the product that you just spoke of, Lucitol, pre and post, and I feel like it's been—I don't know what exactly it's doing. I think I contacted you and I was like, hey, I'm going to be in a ceremony next week, what should I do? I don't want to do anything that interacts with these substances negatively, obviously, which I think I did before with peyote and methylene blue. I think it kind of neutralizes the peyote. It's a whole other thing I'll figure out, but I was like, oh, it's a whatever inhibitor, and the neurochemistry of it was a little skewed. It was not a good move.

[01:46:08] But anyway, I was like, yo, like how do we deal with the neural inflammation and things like that? And I think you recommended Lucitol, and I did use it before a journey, that in this particular instance, was a canna, really beautiful heart opener from South Africa, and then these truffles that are a combination of ayahuasca and psilocybin, and it was an incredible experience. But moreover, I felt amazing afterward. I mean, there was a bit of sleep deficit there, because it was an all night thing, but I was golden. And normally, I would be smoked for a couple of days after a combination of sleep deprivation and just so much stimuli from a combination of medicine like that.

[01:46:50] John Lieurance: Well, a lot of these medicines, they are very excitatory to the brain. And so, when there's a lot of excitement that occurs, it has a similar effect that a concussion does. And so, there's an immune activation that happens in the brain when certain things get into the brain, because the brain sees these things, and it says, oh, we need to clean them up, because it's like a foreign material. And so, your immune cells in your brain are called the microglial. 

[01:47:21] And the microglial, this is like a huge focus of medicine for a lot of different diseases, a lot of chronic degenerative neurologic diseases, but also concussion, because once the microglial get activated, they don't calm down, sometimes, for months. And that's why somebody could be a football player and have a head injury, and then literally, their injury like continues to become worsened over months, and months, and months, because it's these microglial that get activated.

[01:47:51] So, I like think of them like a chihuahua with a bazooka. They're tiny little cells, but, man, once they start getting pissed off, they just start blasting away, and destroying other neurons, and creating inflammation. So, what we found and discovered with a lot of different plant medicines, by calming—so that's what Lucitol really does, is it calms down microglial activation and it's also neuroprotective.

[01:48:18] And so, it was originally designed for concussion. I had this wild idea that I was going to change the NFL. Like I make this product, it'll be available at the sidelines. As soon as people get a head injury, they could take the Lucitol. But then, after talking to a bunch of people like high up in the NFL, they're like, "These guys aren't going to put anything up their butt". Oh, bummer.

[01:48:41] Luke Storey: Suppositories are a tough sell for some, not for me. I want to do whatever works. Like I'm not worried about how it gets in there.

[01:48:48] John Lieurance: Well, once somebody tries it, like it's such a nothing thing. It's like it takes two seconds, and like it's done, and you don't even know it's there. And there's no other way, like even with an IV, if you do an IV, you're going to get a peak plasma, and that's going to be like for an hour. Like most IVs lasts for like an hour, sometimes, a little longer, but with a suppository, your cells have access to that nutrient for up to seven hours.

[01:49:17] So, it's just like if you were to soak black beans, you come back an hour later, like how much water actually got into those black beans. Like they're still hard, not a lot, but 24 hours later, like they're all plump and all that. So, your cells are kind of the same way, is that they're trying to pull and they've got like a slow rate of being able to pull things from outside the cell into the cell, so longer exposure really matters a lot more than the amount of nutrients that you subject it to.

[01:49:47] Luke Storey: Yeah, makes perfect sense. So, do you have on your site kind of a plant medicine protocol?

[01:49:54] John Lieurance: The neuroprotective. Yeah, I have an article I wrote.

[01:49:57] Luke Storey: Yeah, an article. Yeah, I thought I saw something about that. I didn't get delve into it.

[01:50:00] John Lieurance: We can give that away as well.

[01:50:01] Luke Storey: We'll do. We'll put everything in there. 

[01:50:02] John Lieurance: That's another e-book. Well, go ahead and do it.

[01:50:03] Luke Storey: Oh, cool, you crank up the e-books, dude. I'm like, I can't even write a blog post, I don't think. Beside the Lucitol, what other tools could be useful for people that are intentionally, I'll add that in there, intentionally experimenting with psychedelics in a therapeutic setting, MDMA therapy, ketamine therapy, or more shamanic plant medicine ceremonies. So, I'm not talking about like recovering from a night out at a rave, but if someone's really wanting to work on themselves, and work on emotional, mental, spiritual healing, et cetera, what other tools, whether they're ones that you've produced or just things you know of, could be useful in helping someone recover more quickly?

[01:50:45] John Lieurance: Well, so CBD has been known for a long time to really help calm things down, whether it's ayahuasca, or MDMA, or there's a lot of different medicines that if you take CBD, like it'll kind of bring you down a bit and ground you. And so, it's got a tremendous neuroprotective aspect. So, I think that following—now, I think—so we have a 300 and 600-milligram CBD suppository.

[01:51:15] Luke Storey: Oh, the NeuroDiol?

[01:51:17] John Lieurance: Neurodiol, yeah.

[01:51:18] Luke Storey: Actually, that's funny, and maybe I hit you up, and you're like, "Take this", but I think I did those with the Lucitol also, now that I think about it, yeah.

[01:51:25] John Lieurance: Yeah. So, that would be a good—some people might find that preloading with that, because the suppository works a little bit different than oral. I haven't seen people really get like the fatigue or the tiredness with the suppository, but yet you have like all this tremendous neuroprotection. So, it's also part of my Travel Hacker Kit, right? So, taking the NeuroDiol when you're taking off and while you're flying.

[01:51:53] Luke Storey: I've been doing that. That, the NAD, and the glutathione, I do three of them. I bring them to the airport in a cold pack, which always gets me stopped by TSA. And I'm like they're medical. I started putting syringes in there, though, for my peptides, and then I think they see it in the x-ray, and they're like, "Oh, that's medicine", and they don't mess with me as much, which is funny, because you think if you're walking around with like syringes, you get messed with more, but it actually, I think, is helping me get through the x-rays without having to open every bag. But yeah, I'll go in the airport, and before I get on the plane, I'll run in the bathroom and [making sounds] and do the glutathione, the NAD, and the NeuroDiol.

[01:52:24] John Lieurance: Yeah, that's a good combination.

[01:52:30] Luke Storey: Dude, flying is, and I'm not exaggerating or like kissing your ass because you're here, it's a completely new experience. It's so much less debilitating than flying is for me normally, which flying is my kryptonite. I mean, like no one I know or ever met, flying trashes me.

[01:52:48] John Lieurance: Yeah, for sure.

[01:52:49] Luke Storey: Worse than anything.

[01:52:50] John Lieurance: Well, so I grew up in Hawaii. I mentioned that earlier, and my father and my sister live out there, and I live in Florida. It's like really far away, right? So, several times a year, I would fly out there. And so, I started to experiment with things that would help me to acclimate myself, and protect my brain and my nervous system a little bit when I'm flying. And then, when I would get to a location that had a dramatic difference in time zone, like Florida to Hawaii, it's like five or six hours, depending on the Daylight Savings, then I could take the high dose melatonin. And a common friend of ours, Ben Green—actually, Ben introduced us originally, right?

[01:53:34] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:53:35] John Lieurance: So, Ben Greenfield calls it the melatonin sledgehammer. And I mean, he absolutely loves the SandMan suppository, and he uses that when he travels quite a bit. And so, the combination, I think, of using some of these medicines to protect you while you're flying, because there are so many stressors you know there. 

[01:53:57] Luke Storey: Especially nowadays, like psychological stressors.

[01:54:00] John Lieurance: Yeah, you better put your mask back up. Otherwise, you'll never be able to fly on Delta, again, for the rest of your life. You'll be kicked off at the next layover. Yeah, I've been there.

[01:54:10] Luke Storey: The trick is you get a big bag of sunflower seeds and you just-

[01:54:13] John Lieurance: That, or an apple, this is what I did on my last flight, I ate an apple so slowly, like tiny bites, and that worked. Yeah.

[01:54:23] Luke Storey: Yeah, that's a good one. That's funny with all the mask shit. I mean, I've never participated in it unless I was absolutely forced to, because it was unavoidable, like in flying. But when I fly, I wear this EMF-proof like little—it's not a baklava. I think it's a dessert from Russia or something, but whatever it's called, it's a full hood with a little face hole, where just like your eyes see out.

[01:54:48] And it's made with the silver shielding fabric and such. And I wear that thing anyway, because I'm just nuts and I just want to minimize the Wi-Fi in the plane, and solar radiation, and all the TSA EMFs, and all that stuff. So, this is the one time I actually don't mind being told to wear a mask, because I feel like less of a freak, because everyone else is wearing some version of it. I'm just like, haha, my mask is actually doing something versus all of these germ-laden paper, graphene oxide-laden masks.

[01:55:22] John Lieurance: Well, what they're not talking about is what I call the internal mask. And I actually have an opportunity to present to some very high up policymakers in Washington, DC, and we're going to present this idea of an internal mask. And it's like there's just no conversations happening about how you can boost your immune system and stay healthy. Everything is just completely on the injection, and that's your only option, right? 

[01:56:00] Luke Storey: End of sentence.

[01:56:01] John Lieurance: No, I was like, What else? "No, that's pretty much it".

[01:56:04] Luke Storey: Yeah, that is it. Maybe you could add social distancing.

[01:56:08] John Lieurance: And a mask.

[01:56:09] Luke Storey: Yeah, there are three things you got.

[01:56:12] John Lieurance: Which a lot of research does not demonstrate that the—so the virus is like actually the size of an exosome, it's like three to five nanometers. And so, that easily crosses through a mask. So, most people, if they're symptomatic, and they're coughing, and sneezing, like that's not going to hold it back. I mean, it's going to come out the sides. I don't see anybody wearing, like if you have an N95 mask, you've got it close and snugly fit, I think that there's some potential that that could really help, but nobody's doing that.

[01:56:46] And so, if you're not symptomatic, then you're not likely going to spread anything. So, it's really an interesting—so it's like they have to be like this black or white, it's like they don't want to confuse people and give them options or different considerations, because they just want everybody to conform to this one idea, and they're trying to keep it simple.

[01:57:10] And I mean, part of me understands that, but then there's a lot of people that are suffering because of that. There are some people that have hypoxic issues with it and claustrophobic issues. And I think that when people wear the masks, they're constantly touching and adjusting their mask. And so, I think it's actually a higher risk wearing a mask than not, because you wouldn't be touching your face or scratching things as much if you didn't have a mask on, right? So, you're already like touching and exposing.

[01:57:43] Luke Storey: Not to mention the metaphysical and psychological impacts of covering your beautiful God-given face.

[01:57:53] John Lieurance: Right. Yeah.

[01:57:54] Luke Storey: One thing that occurred to me, and we could start a whole other podcast with this fucking can of worms. 

[01:57:58] John Lieurance: We have covered like more subjects on this podcast. It's crazy.

[01:58:01] Luke Storey: That's why I wanted to catch you when you're here. But I'm hard of hearing, we're talking about hearing, and I want to try your treatments, but I've lost probably, I don't know, 30, 40% of my left ear. And so, I've just gotten used to it, but when we started the mask shit, I can't hear anyone, right? And then, I realized, oh, my God, I read lips, unconsciously, right?

[01:58:25] John Lieurance: Absolutely.

[01:58:26] Luke Storey: I go to order coffee, and they're behind the Plexiglas thing, and they're like, "Do you have a rewards number? What's your phone number?" I can't hear them, they can't hear me. 

[01:58:33] John Lieurance: 80% of communication is nonverbal, right? And so, there's a lot of facial gestures, and that's how we connect with people, so you're really creating quite a barrier in people's ability to like connect, and this is one of the most important human needs that we have.

[01:58:48] Luke Storey: Absolutely. Well, when I realized that, I thought, oh, my God, what about people that are really hearing-impaired? I mean, I have some impairment, but I'm not completely, I mean, I'm not deaf, like what are deaf people doing through all of this? What a freaking nightmare. You have to like walk around with a notebook or what? It's just brutal. So, anyway, not to end on a shitty note, but you do have to get to the airport. I'm excited for your new clinic, man. I can't wait to get down there.

[01:59:18] I'm so happy to share what you're doing. I mean, obviously, anyone that's heard this today is like, wow, almost anything you could want to fix, it sounds like you're working on and having some level of success there. So, congrats on the expansion, especially in this time, so many people have been shut down, businesses are being crushed because of the mandates. Luckily, you're in Florida and things seem to be a little more sane there. So, good move on that, a good premonition on where to set up shop.

[01:59:44] John Lieurance: Yeah, grace, grace.

[01:59:46] Luke Storey: Yeah. And one thing that's really cool and I want to give you kudos for is not only creating these apartments at your clinic where your patients who are more long term, someone with Lyme, or mold, or whatever that needs more time, but that's one of the prohibitive things I found for people, is if you have to go travel to see a specialist, I mean, you're paying for a hotel, and none of this stuff is typically covered in insurance. It's cash basis. So, like you got plane tickets, hotels, food, and the treatment.

[02:00:16] John Lieurance: I can tell you across the board, if I have a patient that travels to see me and they're not getting results, it's because they're staying in a moldy apartment or a moldy house, right?

[02:00:26] Luke Storey: Right. And the EMF.

[02:00:26] John Lieurance: Exactly. Right. I ask them about their rooms, like, "Yeah, it does smell a little moldy". I'm like, okay, well, because I try to coach people before that, but I think having that ability, and we're not going to have enough apartments to really handle everybody, but I think the more sensitive people, we're going to probably give preference to, and it's going to be sometime mid to late-2022 before these apartments are really going to be ready.

[02:00:52] Luke Storey: Okay. Noted. But what I was getting to was the intelligence that you've demonstrated by EMF-shielding them. I mean, you've got to think about when—I mean, I don't have to tell you, but if somebody's trying to heal from something that's really difficult and they're going to sleep in a high EMF environment, their body is never going to go totally parasympathetic.

[02:01:15] John Lieurance: No, it's like a stress response. Absolutely. 

[02:01:18] Luke Storey: And I learned some of this from Dr. Klinghardt. He's famous for not taking on patients that are unwilling to mitigate the EMF in their home. So, he's like, "You want me to treat you for Lyme, and this, and that, I'm not going to do it until you get your bedroom shielded, and get sorted out, and you have zero EMF in your bedroom, not because he's a control freak, because his stuff won't work."

[02:01:40] John Lieurance: Yeah, absolutely.

[02:01:41] Luke Storey: And that's how important it is. So, that, I'm so happy to hear that. And I hope more people that are in the field that you are start to pay a little more attention to that, because it's such a—I know-

[02:01:52] John Lieurance: Well, thanks for hooking up with Brian. I mean, those guys are like absolutely black belts.

[02:01:57] Luke Storey: Shielded Healing, man, one and done. I mean, that's the thing with EMF, is like you can get a little meter on Amazon and you can assess like, wow, it's really bad in here or not, you can't tell which wavelength of RF it is. You've got magnetic, dirty electricity, geopathic stress, electric fields. EMF is really complex, and even if you understand it, you have to have meters for all of those different types of EMF, and you have to know how to read the meters.

[02:02:24] That's the first step. That's why people always ask me, "Oh, what should I do? Like I want to shield my bedroom." I'm like, ah, you're going to spend three grand on black shielding paint, and then you forget to do your floor, and you're on the second floor, and the people underneath, you have a Wi-Fi router, you're just creating a house of mirrors for that RF to just bounce around, it'll be even worse. So, I'm glad that you connected with him.

[02:02:47] And to me, if you're going to do it, just do it right, just do the whole thing. Get the accurate testing, proper shielding protocols, because all that stuff has to be grounded, too, when you're painting the walls and doing the floors, and then once you're all done, you test again to see if you miss anything. Oh, there's a window over there, and then you can put RF shielding stuff or put up curtains. It's, I think, so overwhelming to try to do it yourself.

[02:03:13] And so, in our house here, Brian, his team came out, we did the guest bedroom, what will hopefully be a nursery, and we did our bedroom, and then we also did something super cool, which you might think about, is where our desks are and where the couches are, where we're going to be spending a lot of time when we're not sleeping, we just did the electric fields. So, we did the mesh on the floor, and then grounded the walls up to about six feet high, so there's no electric field coming off of the drywall, but you still get RF to make Wi-Fi, and your phone work and stuff. 

[02:03:42] So, you can get creative with it and do cool stuff that doesn't really impede your ability to interface with technology. So, you're sleeping room or your patients' rooms are like total Faraday, and then when you need to use these technologies and signals, they're there, where you want them, though, you have more control over it. Alright, dude. Give people websites. So mitozen.com/luke, and we've got, I think there's a discount over there for our listeners, I forget what it is, but I believe if they use that link, there's a discount there. And then, how do people find your clinic?

[02:04:16] John Lieurance: Yeah. So, if anyone's listening to this and they're interested in coming to receive some care, let us know that you heard about us from you and there'll be a discount. We can't disclose exactly what that'll be, but there will be a benefit for those that are coming from this podcast. But it's advancedrejuvenation.us. And then, I have another website that's more focused on the functional neurology that I do, and it's called functionalcranialrelease.com. And then, I also have an educational website called ultimatecellularreset.com.

[02:04:59] Luke Storey: That's why when I Google you, like five websites come up. Sometimes, I was like, if I want to look up his clinic, and I'm like, which one is it? There's like a litany of them. So, we'll put all of those in the show notes at lukestorey.com/mitozen, and we'll just pack everything in there. But if someone's listening right now that is like, "Oh, I want to look on the website and talk to you guys". But, man, thanks for making the time to come see me, let's get you off on an airplane.

[02:05:23] John Lieurance: My pleasure, brother.

[02:05:24] Luke Storey: Yeah. And I look forward to seeing you again. Hopefully, in early '22, I want to be going down to Florida, and visit my dad, I'm going to be interviewing a doctor who specializes in hair loss treatments and stuff out in West Palm Beach. So, I think I'm gonna do a little tour down there, I'll come see you, and we'll hang out again.

[02:05:42] John Lieurance: Yeah, that sounds great.

[02:05:43] Luke Storey: Alright, man.

[02:05:43] John Lieurance: Alright.

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