293. Healing Humanity From Within: Racial Unity & Shamanism W/ Dr. Marie Mbouni

Dr. Marie Mbouni

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

I invite you to join me in this heart-opening and healing ceremony led by Dr. Marie Mbouni. All of humanity is invited. #BlackLivesMatter

Dr. Marie Mbouni, the founder of Heart Leadership and The Supercreator® Method, is a leading expert on helping high-performing business owners, entrepreneurs, leaders, and creatives get reconnected and centered in order to achieve unprecedented levels of performance, alignment, and joy.

A bestselling author, healer, and speaker, Marie's work is a reflection of her unique background in both Western and Eastern medicine, with 17 years experience as an MD in Anesthesiology and a Masters in Public Health, and as a lifelong intuitive and channel, her Eastern roots include robust work as a modern mystic and multi-dimensional spiritual guide in Energy and Shamanic healing, as well as certifications in Creativity and Yoga. Marie's insights have been featured in major media like NBC, ABC, CBS, and Fox.

Marie is available to partner as a guide and coach with conscious entrepreneurs, business owners, creative visionaries and evolutionary leaders wanting to step into their greatness, creativity, magnetic power, and purpose so that they can lead from a place of heart-centeredness and deep intuition, in order to experience lasting and holistic success.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Beginning with a shamanic song that rocks me to my core every time I listen to it, the episode you’re about to participate in is more ceremony than interview. If you watch it on video, you will see the moment my heart cracks open — and it just gets better from there. Led by our guest Dr. Marie Mbouni, this is also one of the most meaningful and profound experiences I’ve been able to share on the show.

As the social unrest unfolded over the last few months, I did a lot of soul searching and contemplation on the cultural pain body with which we are now squarely faced. It’s so clear that humanity is in dire need of healing; the powers that be seem hellbent on creating more racial and political division and many are taking the bait.

The more I see, the more confident I am that the solution to all of this suffering is in discovering the truth about who we are — both as individuals and as one human race. We are spiritual beings having a brief life experience in bodies, and on the level of spirit, there is no separation between us. 

The challenge is in helping those entrapped by the illusion of separation and the fear that that illusion creates. True, lasting change must take place in the quantum realm of energy before it can manifest here in the physical plane of matter.

Luckily, there are few voices more capable of helping people understand our shared consciousness and the collective power we wield than Dr. Mbouni. With years of experience as both a Western doctor and a spiritual guide, she’s able to make Shamanic healing practices more accessible to a Western audience. And the more I learn about them, the more I realize this is a huge piece of what’s missing in our society.

Without any further ado, please join us in this heart-opening and healing ceremony with Dr. Marie Mbouni. All of humanity is invited.

12:10 — Dr. Marie Mbouni’s takes us on a guided musical journey

  • The drum wanted to come on the show
  • “The Directions,” a traditional way of coming into a sacred space
  • Drums can take you into an altered state of consciousness
  • This is a ceremony for standing up for humanity

27:00 — Marie’s origin story: Eastern tradition meets Western medicine & the Iboga ceremony that changed her life

  • Growing up in Cameroon, Africa
  • The patriarchal-but-progressive paradigm in her community
  • Being introduced to Shamanism at 14 through an iboga ceremony
  • Watching the ceremonies heal her mother over the course of three months
  • Pushing down her intuition and ability to channel so that she could belong
  • Stepping outside of our limited dimensional awareness
  • Tangible Vs. Experiential

44:30 — Why Marie quit her medical career after 20 years to follow her dharma as a healer and shaman

  • Something changed in 2012
  • Starting the journey to accepting herself
  • Why hiding her talents didn’t work
  • Why we are hurting ourselves when we make choices based on other people’s perceived judgement
  • You can’t stay in one spot

01:04:25 — Your purpose is to be you

  • As you consciousness changes and your energy field opens, you start experiencing life differently
  • The beauty of synchronicity
  • Your spiritual purpose is to be who you are
  • What happens when you commit to the ascension path
  • The notion that you need to transcend the ego
  • Spiritual bypassing

01:10:45 — Marie’s personal experience with the current racial tension & where we can go from here

  • What’s the root cause?
  • Where do we start addressing it?
  • It’s not possible to fully understand that which is inhumane
  • Positive actions that bring attention and work against injustice vs. negative actions that hurt the cause even if they have good intentions
  • David Hawkins and the levels of consciousness
  • "Transcending the Levels of Consciousness: The Stairway to Enlightenment" by David R. Hawkins
  • “Power vs. Force” by David R. Hawkins
  • Marie’s medicine is love
  • How we can each do our own inner healing and shadow work to raise the collective consciousness of the world at large
  • Why putting your focus on unconditional love is not spiritual bypassing
  • The unfortunate paralysis happening right now
  • Why unconditional love for self and other is the answer to all inner and collective human issues
  • How to bravely face and acknowledge issues like inequality, racism, and abuse of power without being swept up in the futility of negative energy and anger
  • How to bring about harmony and peace, without feeding into the illusion of separateness or denying others’ suffering

01:44:30 — Escaping the trap of self-identifying as our egoic self-perception of race, gender, age, and body

  • How slavery happens
  • Not being a victim of your own fear
  • Marie’s take on political correctness and cancel culture
  • An exploration of virtue signaling, approval seeking, and subconscious collective guilt
  • Why Marie believes there’s no one right way to be a social activist
  • Holding is harder than doing

02:07:30 — The role shamanism and plant medicine have in ushering in a new paradigm of human consciousness

  • Marie’s surprising views on cultural appropriation
  • These plants want to get out and they have their own way of doing it
  • The potential risks of plant medicine use & how to practice prudence and discernment if you choose to participate in ceremony
  • How Marie uses shamanic ceremonies and plant medicines to bring about planetary healing
  • Sacred reciprocity + sacred activism
  • Can you get too addicted to the plant medicine experience and the forward progress?
  • The 3 phases of a plant medicine journey
  • When you’re conscious of something, you can’t unknown it

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

Luke Storey:  I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Welcome back to the show, Marie.

[00:00:30]Marie Mbouni:  Thank you so much, Luke. I'm so excited. I've been actually waiting for this. I think I contacted you once or twice, like, hey, when are we going to hang out?

[00:00:42]Luke Storey:  I'm so glad we had the opportunity. Yeah. We recorded our last episode, which I think was 245 for those listening and we talked about during that interview, we got to do this again. And that's like over a year ago or something I think, maybe.

[00:00:55]Marie Mbouni:  Right.

[00:00:56]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And then, you were out of the country, I think, for a time and now is the perfect time, so I'm really glad to see you.

[00:01:03]Marie Mbouni:  I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:05]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I'm stoked. I'm stoked because I was looking at, I think, your new website. It looks like it's been redesigned since I last looked at it.

[00:01:12]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. I actually went live about a couple weeks ago.

[00:01:17]Luke Storey:  Cool.

[00:01:17]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:01:18]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And it's absolutely beautiful. And so, I was like, oh, she's really stepping into this now. And so, it's a perfect time to bring you on the show.

[00:01:27]Marie Mbouni:  Thank you. 

[00:01:27]Luke Storey:  So, what I think would be fun, I saw that you brought your drum, and I know you have your medicine, and I thought it would be cool to perhaps start the show with a little guided journey of your choice. If you want to take us through any length of a mini ceremony, prayer, meditation, whatever you want to call it, however you want to do it.

[00:01:52]Marie Mbouni:  That's beautiful. Yes. The drum wanted to come. It's an absolutely beautiful drum for people who can see. And I will guide us through a drum journey where I'm going to call the directions. It's a method of coming into sacred place, sacred space that many cultures use, many native cultures use, where you call all the directions, the elements, the ancestors. So, I'm going to take us through that so that all this episode is going to be a ceremony.

[00:02:33]Luke Storey:  I love it.

[00:02:34]Marie Mbouni:  Awesome. So, for people who are listening, if you're driving, make sure you keep your eyes open or maybe you pull over because the drum can take you into altered state of consciousness because the repetitive pattern that I'm going to play actually works on the reticular activating system, that part of the brain that keeps you awake and aware, and it shuts it down. So, you might find yourself without knowing in altered state. So, you want to make sure that you're sitting, you're comfortable, maybe you can close your eyes during this. It's not going to be long. Maybe five minutes.

[00:03:23]Luke Storey:  Awesome. I'm game.

[00:03:59]Marie Mbouni:  It might seem like it's very long, but-

[00:04:08]Luke Storey:  Take us away.

[00:04:12]Marie Mbouni:  Alright. [Chanting] . Eastern Gateway. I call on the east, home of the rising sun. I call on the wind to bring us illumination, clarity, wisdom, discernment. I call on eagle, condor, hawk to be with us in this beautiful podcast episode. I call on the south, element of fire, the fire of transmutation, the fire of transformation. I call on the energies of the fire to be with us and teach us how to burn away anything that doesn't serve with ease and grace. 

[00:05:25] I call on sick medicine, snake commit a sin, grandfather, grandmother snake, serpent to teach us how to shed, and the skin that is too small for us in one fluid motion. I call on the west, the waters, water element, the oceans, lakes, seas, waterfalls, rivers, ponds. I call on the rains. I call on our own sweat. I call on our tears. I call on our tears, our sweat to be with us and to teach us how to go within. I call on black panther, black jaguar to teach us how to integrate our shadow. 

[00:06:22] I call on the north, element of earth. I call on the ancestors of this land of California and the ancestors of any place you are listening to in the world. I call on the wisdom of those who have come before us. I call on the wisdom of the earth, all that has lived, all that has died, all that has transformed into nourishing soil. I call. I call on owl to teach us how to see 360 degrees. I call on the great below, the great mother.

[00:07:13] I call on the great mother, Pachamama, our beautiful blue planet to teach us how to love, teach us patience, teach us how to love and how to hold. I call on the great above, Pachatata, faith, gather, the masculine principle, the arrow in all of us. I call on the star people. I call on galactic councils. I call on angelic beings, and our own highest selves, and our own hearts. May our hearts open, may our hearts open to receive the message of this podcast, the message being broadcast today. 

[00:08:11] May all of us heal from the words that we are receiving today. Bring your awareness to your breath, breathing in through your nose, breathing out through your mouth, coming into a presence into this moment right now. A-ho. Just letting this energy circulate in your body, feeling your body, feeling your presence, who you are at the core, receiving the healing that's happening right now. And with your next breath, inhale deeply, exhale everything with sound, and gently open your eyes when you're ready.

[00:10:09]Luke Storey:  Well, that has to be the most profound way, I think, I've ever opened the podcast. Thank you.

[00:10:14]Marie Mbouni:  You're welcome.

[00:10:16]Luke Storey:  What a great way to set the tone.

[00:10:20]Marie Mbouni:  This podcast is a ceremony. When you invited me and what you've been doing these months, showing up to stand for humanity, I feel that. And this is what it's about. It's a ceremony and we're standing up for humanity. Yeah. 

[00:10:50]Luke Storey:  It's funny I find myself in this moment, having an experience that's somewhat common for me, and that is in itself ironic, because essentially what I do for a living is talk, right? And then, listen to people talk, of course. And there are some experiences that are beyond words. And often, the transmission is just experienced and felt through presence. And I find myself now. I just want to sit here, just bask, bask in the beautiful energy that you've channeled into the room. 

[00:11:34] It's like everything I wanted to say seems like we don't need to even say it, just be it. But at the same time, I guess we're beholden to say something. So, it's incredible. When you started singing, oh, my God, my heart just exploded with a knowingness, a familiarity. It's such a great experience to be able to be aware that you know something, even though consciously, you don't.

[00:12:10]Marie Mbouni:  Right.

[00:12:12]Luke Storey:  This is, oh, yeah, I've been here before.

[00:12:14]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:12:15]Luke Storey:  I love that.

[00:12:15]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:12:16]Luke Storey:  Isn't that one of the great mysteries of being incarnated, where some of us, at least myself, I mean, I've had a few experiences in which past lives were revealed in some sense, but we're sort of gifted with and, in a sense, cursed with amnesia when we're born in each body. And nature hasn't really designed us to have the tactile relationship with those many, many past that we've had. It just kind of plops us into this one and they have the opportunity to karmically learn whatever there is within this span of one lifetime. 

[00:12:51]Marie Mbouni:  And then, move on. As you were talking and as I was looking at you, I remember that the reason we are here as humans is to be. And beingness can only be felt. It cannot be thought. It cannot be imagined. It can only be felt. And with what's happening with the pandemic, the racial unrest, we have forgotten to be. So, I'm so happy that you allowed this to be a ceremony where the first thing we did was to come into beingness, to come into presence, because when we're present, we are aware. And when we are aware, well, the sky's the limit.

[00:13:54]Luke Storey:  Man, it is so awesome. I remember when I first met you, we were at the bullet proof upgrade labs conference.

[00:14:04]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:14:04]Luke Storey:  And I was doing a bunch of interviews there and there were a lot of, I mean, within the context of that scene, there were a lot of famous speakers and things like that, and I was doing my best to track down all of the big names and things like that. And then, I think maybe we were outdoors and I forget if someone introduced us, if we just ran into one another, but I remember the moment I met you, thinking-

[00:14:30]Marie Mbouni:  I can tell you what happened. 

[00:14:34]Luke Storey:  You do? Because my memory is a little-

[00:14:35]Marie Mbouni:  So, what happened was, you were interviewing all these people and I was sitting there with a friend who was going to be interviewed by you. And as I was sitting there, I started connecting with you energetically. And after that friend was done, after we were introduced, I said, you should interview me.

[00:14:54]Luke Storey:  Oh, you did? That's funny. I don't remember you recommending it.

[00:14:57]Marie Mbouni:  And I was like, I'm right here.

[00:15:00]Luke Storey:  That's dope. That's dope. It's funny.

[00:15:03]Marie Mbouni:  And then, you were like, yeah, I've been thinking that, I mean, because we instantly connected.

[00:15:09]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:15:09]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. That's what happened. I was like, you should interview me.

[00:15:12]Luke Storey:  Was it Daniel Raphael?

[00:15:13]Marie Mbouni:  It was Daniel.

[00:15:14]Luke Storey:  Oh, we just spoke yesterday. He's in Costa Rica. We had a talk on the phone in his—there's this time delay, we're talking on signals. It was the weirdest conversation because, I'm like, did you hear what I just said? And then, it's very delayed. But yeah, that's right. We were outside. Yeah. Of course, like I don't always interview people that are the main speaker at a conference or something, but I'm intentional about the way that I book the show and stuff. But yeah, I just remember looking in her eyes and I was like, oh, she gets it. She's awake. That's the sense that I get with some people.

[00:15:49]Marie Mbouni:  And we had like a wordless conversation. 

[00:15:52]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:15:54]Marie Mbouni:  And then, we just went for it like we didn't even know what we were going to talk about. It was so fun.

[00:16:01]Luke Storey:  Oh, man. That's great. Well, we're about to do it today and I know a little bit about what we're going to talk about.

[00:16:06]Marie Mbouni:  I don't, but it's cool.

[00:16:07]Luke Storey:  Yeah, that's the way I like it. Every once in a while, the guests would be like, send me the questions, and I go, I'm like, no, man, that will ruin the spontaneity.

[00:16:14]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:16:14]Luke Storey:  I don't even really want to know what the questions are because they often change. But I do think your origin story is fascinating and it's something we didn't get to delve too deeply into. And I'm just actually personally very curious about what it was like to grow up in Africa.

[00:16:32]Marie Mbouni:  In Cameroon.

[00:16:33]Luke Storey:  Yeah, in Cameroon. What it was like for you to grow up? What was your surroundings, the culture like? I remember you telling me that you were exposed to shamanism in a really early age as well as iboga, I think, was in the story there. And then, eventually, ended up migrating to the states and becoming an MD. And there just seems like a fascinating journey. Now, there's so much more that I want to talk about, but I would like to just give the audience and myself a sense of your origins and how you ended up where you are right now.

[00:17:03]Marie Mbouni:  Wow. So, pretty rich story because of so many different pieces. Like I said, I was born in Cameroon, Africa. Yaoundé is the capital city. That's my hometown. Like about 2.8 million people. And it had two faces when I was a kid. It was very patriarchal, and yet, very progressive. And by that, I mean, the school system, education was really great. However, if you were a girl or a woman, you are supposed to marry a guy and bear children.

[00:17:52] And since I was a kid, since I was seven, I knew that I wanted to be a doctor. And I had been told that, you know, girls don't do that. You shouldn't do that. And I was already a rebel. I'm an Aquarian, so I did it anyway. And there's only one medical school. There was only one medical school that took 75 people every year because that was the capacity. So, every year, people have to take an exam like 10,000 people and they take the top 75.

[00:18:33] Every high school and first-year university, they take the exam. And even if I had been told it would never happen, I did it anyway. And I went into medical school. And I graduated. And I started working. And what happened was that every day, I had to prove myself as a doctor because I'm a woman. And after a while, I was like, I can't do this every day of my life. I went to medical school, I had the same training, I was top of my class anyways, so like it's not just because of the masculine gender that you're superior.

[00:19:20] So, I decided to come to America. But coming back to the shamanism and the plant medicine, when I was a teenager, my mother had cancer and she didn't want to have surgery. And so, she was going to the iboga people to heal and she was taking iboga, however, she couldn't hear what iboga was saying and she couldn't understand. And iboga told her that she should get me because I will get it. So, I was 14 the first time I did iboga. And for those who have taken iboga, it's indescribable.

[00:20:21] I don't know how much I can say here. But anyway, it was a profound experience. And I was shown the medicine. I was shown exactly where to get it, the plans, how to prepare them. And my mother took them and she healed. Like she didn't have surgery. And that happened, the healing of my mother happened in the span of three months. So, I was taking iboga every weekend, three days, like Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I had to come out of school for three months.

[00:21:08]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[00:21:09]Marie Mbouni:  And I don't even know. It's because if my mother hadn't been sick, I don't think I could have ever because it really doesn't taste good. And I already knew before that that I had spiritual gifts. I was just hiding them. And in fact, spending that much time with iboga absolutely opened me up and coded me. I could hear people's thoughts. It was incredible. And I was only 14. So, what I did was push it back down after my mom was healed because it was just a lot. 

[00:21:57]Luke Storey:  I'm curious, I always like the picturesque details of these stories. So, you're living in a city of two-plus million people. And when you would go have these experiences with this shaman, would you go out to the countryside?

[00:22:10]Marie Mbouni:  Yes.

[00:22:10]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:22:11]Marie Mbouni:  So, I'm a city girl. I was born in the city. And the shamans were, if I take miles because we use the metric system, maybe like 10 miles out of the city, not too far, but out. So, it was this place with a lot of nature, a lot of trees. A big, it wasn't really like a house. It was like a hall type, like a ceremony type of place that was really open and people could sit with the medicine. And the outside also had a lot of places where people could sit. 

[00:23:07] And I remember, the first time that I went there, I was so afraid because I actually didn't know what it was. Like my parents, like my stepdad was a diplomat. That was an international school. So, I didn't really like know, like I wasn't going to villagers, and I didn't know that. I didn't know. My grandmother was Catholic. I didn't really like going to church, so I wasn't going. So, I didn't know any of this. And however, because my mother had heard that people can heal with plant medicine, that's why she went there.

[00:24:01] And the first time that I was served, I remember there was a mat, some type of mat, and I was sitting down, and there was a plate of iboga, like the bark of a tree. This is not like water or it's not liquid. It's like the bark of a tree that's bitter, that you have to chew and swallow. That's intense. And the shaman was sitting in front of me and he would feed me a spoon of this raw, dusty bark thing to chew and swallow. It was like, I don't know, more than 10 spoons of this thing. 

[00:24:53] And the first night, the first time that it happened, you know, I was like, I thought I would not keep it down. However, every time it happened, I would think about my mother who really needed me. And when the journey came, it literally was like, I still remember it until today. It was like a light bulb was flipped on. It was literally like I was this way, and then it was like, click. And then, like everything was different. 

[00:25:41] And I found myself, I mean, I went with the goal of finding medicine for my mother. And the first vision I had, I was with my brother that I had never met. My brother passed away as a baby before I was born. And I was with him. And I knew that it was him even if I had never seen him. And we started talking. And then, after that, I was with my great grandmother who had passed away three years before that, like that is like the opening scene.

[00:26:35]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[00:26:36]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. And then, benevolent beings, is what I'm going to call that, took me, like they showed me where, there were like three plants. And remember, I didn't know plants because I was a city girl, but they showed me like when you're done with this, you're going to go here, you're going to turn left, and you're going to go down, like it was in a village, so it wasn't paved, it was like going down like a ravine type of thing, and you're going to find this. And this is what it looks like. And it's right here. And you're going to take the leaves this way. And you're also going to take that. And then, you're going to boil this for this long and you're going to mix this, like that.

[00:27:41]Luke Storey:  Wow. That's incredible.

[00:27:45]Marie Mbouni:  And I didn't forget anything. So, when the medicine was over, I was just like, oh, I have to go, you know, to this place. And my mother was like, where are you going? Are you okay? And I was like, no, I have to get this medicine. And I just knew, I had never been to that place. And I knew exactly where to go, and what to get, and how to take care of it. So, that was like my first.

[00:28:17]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[00:28:17]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:28:18]Luke Storey:  That's incredible. It's just, I love these kinds of stories that step outside of our limited dimensional awareness. And I think that's one of the most powerful things about not only plant medicines, but other modalities that have been discovered that enable you to access those different planes of awareness, and information, and entities, and all of that, which at one point in my life, I would have thought, was completely insane because it wasn't empirical, and tangible. 

[00:28:54]Marie Mbouni:  That tangible word.

[00:28:57]Luke Storey:  Intellectually, the domain of the intellect caps out at a certain level. And so, if you're in that level, anything beyond that level seems impossible because they're in two completely different paradigms. I always think of it as trying to explain sky to a fish. Well, except for perhaps a flying fish, but you could explain sky to a fish, and they just go, what? You're insane. That doesn't exist. It's just all wet. This is it. So, when you went, and got this medicine then, and prepared, it was just part of your mom's protocol?

[00:29:36]Marie Mbouni:  Yes, it was my mom's protocol. And it was very detailed. And it's like I didn't forget anything. It was like it was imprinted, I knew what to do, how much to give, like I didn't forget. It wasn't like I had a dream and it was online. I think that's how I can describe that. But I wanted to comment on what you said a little bit about the intellectual capacity and the limitation. I think that things are changing.

[00:30:22] Things are changing because depending on what you do, you can augment, I'm going to use AI terms, you can augment yourself. You can augment your reality. Like look at what we had with this drum journey. I mean, boom, right? Experiential. Experiential things are what really expand you and your intellect, because then, you understand that the tools that you need to prove, whatever you think you need to prove are what limit you.

[00:31:03] Because if you're using technology that's like aged or antiquated to try to prove something, I mean, it's not going to work. It's like a computer. The memory that you have, the RAM, the capacity, the processors, that's what allows you to do as many ones and zeroes as you need. If you have a small computer or all your memory is taken up by a hundred applications running, I mean, you're not going to be computing, right? So anyway, I don't even remember what the question was.

[00:31:43]Luke Storey:  Well, that's good. It's not important. Trust me. So, I mean, at the same time, well, I want to explore your past because it's so fascinating, I think we could do a 10-hour show just on that, there are so many current events that I want to really dive into with you as well. But that being your beginning, so you're the city girl, and because of this seemingly insurmountable challenge of your mom's illness with the cancer, you're then led into these experiences with iboga. You learn how to develop these herbal preparations, et cetera. Your mom heals. And then, as you said earlier, you were aware of some of these spiritual gifts and these awakenings. But because you had other plans or it wasn't socially acceptable, for whatever reason, you started to kind of suppress them.

[00:32:35]Marie Mbouni:  What it was that after noticing that, I just started noticing that everybody was not like me. I would go to school, and people would talk, and I would know what they wanted to say, and if they didn't say anything, my intuition, and I started noticing that, oh, everybody's not—I thought that's how humans are. I thought everybody was like that until I realized that, oh, some people are not like that. And I wanted to belong. 

[00:33:23] And I thought that in order to belong, and I thought this for a long time, in order to belong, I had to be exactly like everybody else. That's where I started pretending, and hiding my gifts, and suppressing. And then, I went into medical school and I was the scientist. I was that person, I became that person who was laughing at people who had crystals like, what is that? Right? I was. Like that's how much I suppressed that part of me.

[00:34:04] So, as I was saying, after working as a doctor in Cameroon for a few months and meeting resistance because I was a woman, I decided to come to America where I did my residency in anesthesiology. And I love anesthesiology because it's like, I mean, your own like jedi, do what you want, how you want it. And in 2012, something happened. I couldn't hide anymore. It's how I'm going to put it. It was like spiritual pressure.

[00:34:51] I would see people, and then I would start channeling without wanting to, like people's ancestors who had like maybe passed away would be like, tell him he should give the family name, people that I didn't know. And I would be like, I'm so sorry, I have to tell you this message. And it happened the first time, it was at Awesomeness fest, a fest, and like big conference thing. And it was happening. And that's when I was like, okay, this, I have to take control because I was stopping it.

[00:35:38] It was coming out when I didn't want it, like when somebody is bottled up, something is bottled up and just explodes. And so, that's when I started the journey to accepting myself as a shaman. But yeah, I did not want to be that person. And so, as I started that journey, I started noticing that I was the only one who thought I was hiding, like everybody else could see but me. And in my hospital, when I was bringing my patients from surgery, the nurses would always be like, oh, I'll take your patient, I'll take your patient. And I thought they were taking everybody's patient, that they were just being polite.

[00:36:37] And then, one day, I was walking back from the operating room with very sick patient and there was another person who had a very easy, like young guy, and nobody even looked at him. And the nurses were like, I'll take your patient. And I thought, this is—so, I went back to the nurses and I said, why do you always want to get my patients? And they said, your patients wake up without pain and they're very polite. Even when they have pain, they ask politely, and they're calm, and they wake up with a smile. And I also started noticing that when somebody was having a hard time, they would, call Dr. Mbouni, she'll calm them down. She's the verbal Xanax. Like that was my name.

[00:37:31]Luke Storey:  I can sense that. 

[00:37:32]Marie Mbouni:  So, what it made me realize was that people could feel something. And so, me trying to hide it really wasn't that successful. And plus, I couldn't hide it anymore. I couldn't. So, I decided to start my studies into shamanism, and energy. And then, I came out, I actually called it, I'm coming out, I'm coming out as spiritual. I said that in my hospital, I'm coming out as spiritual. And I started with my patients, when I put them to sleep, I took them on mini-journeys.

[00:38:23]Luke Storey:  Really?

[00:38:24]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. I stop saying, oh, count from a hundred to like 99, like no, it was just like, yeah, we could have gone a little journey. And people were like, yeah. And I was like, do you want a meditation before you go to sleep? Yes. I started bridging in a gentle way, like just being me, just being me, using all of me because I'm spiritual, I'm energetic, I'm physical. And I was like, no more compartmentalizing myself. I was done with that. I had done it for a long time.

[00:39:10]Luke Storey:  That's really inspiring. I know a lot of people, including myself, have a really hard time embracing those parts of themselves and finding their calling, finding their dharma. And even in having it revealed is one thing, but then start moving into it, into the unknown of like, is this going to work? How does this become a career? Like I know that I've struggled with that a lot and I've interviewed a lot of people that had prior careers and lives, and then kind of came out, as you said, or transitioned into one in which they're sharing metaphysical gifts, spiritual gifts, and how to figure out how to ethically and with integrity create a business out of that, that feels good, and not weird, and cheesy. And it's a tricky one, I think, for a lot of people.

[00:40:04]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. And that's what I'm doing right now. I stopped working as an anesthesiologist last April.

[00:40:19]Luke Storey:  Good for you.

[00:40:20]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. And thank you.

[00:40:22]Luke Storey:  I mean, I'm bummed, though, because if I ever have surgery, I want to bring you out of retirement.

[00:40:27]Marie Mbouni:  I still have my license. 

[00:40:28]Luke Storey:  Okay. Good.

[00:40:29]Marie Mbouni:  It was really about acknowledging that I am doing this. Because if I was still doing it, then I could be like, I'm tired today or whatever. But it was like, no, this is what I'm doing and I want to give myself the time, the chance to really do this. And you were talking about business and metaphysical or spiritual business not being cheesy or whatever. And what it is, is that people feel the integrity. And integrity comes from authenticity, like not trying to repeat, or copy, or pretend, like really using your gifts that are yours. 

[00:41:27] Because what happens sometimes with spiritual people is they want to have a business, and then this is something that didn't work, that somebody else did, and then they're doing the same thing. And people can feel like that's not your gift, right? And you feel it, too. So, you come out as totally fake. And it also comes from separation, judgement, label, that one is good, that one is bad. However, you don't even know.

[00:42:03] What I know for sure is that, and I think we're talking a little bit about that, when you talked about when we come to earth and we have the karmic things we need to do, everybody comes here for a reason. And you learn lessons, you get gifts from those things. And your gifts are here to be shared. Yours, not mine. And what happens is, in our society, it is so easy to belittle our own gifts and be like, oh, I only know how to sing, like, well, do you know how many people would love to learn how to sing in a spiritual way? I mean, you don't know.

[00:42:46] And in what we do when we really accept and harness our spiritual gifts, it's like bread crumbs that you leave for other people because we are here to show the way. And then, the people who are like you, who are here to learn the same lessons, they can follow your footsteps, they can follow the bread crumbs, they have hope. They're inspired. That's what it is about. And yes, it can be monetized and I hope it is monetized because abundance, I think the universe is abundant. And I think that it is our responsibility to share our gifts so that you can bring people to presence, so they can really say yes or no. I'm passionate about this.

[00:43:53]Luke Storey:  I love it. I love it. It's important, man, because I think that so many of us struggle in finding what our unique gift is. And when we do, and speaking again for my own personal experience, I worked in the fashion industry for a long time and I just kind of fell into it. And it was fun, and creative, and it was fine, at least for 17 years. And then, at a certain point, meanwhile, I'm having conversations like this and into all the stuff that I'm still into kind of in my private life, and at a certain point, it just became unbearable to do anything other than that.

[00:44:29] But it has been challenging at times to really take ownership of my gifts and not to hide out. Because even though I'm in this career now, I can still hide out in the more superficial type of content and things like that in a sense. And I think when you're talking about that genuineness and authenticity of a teacher that's truly embodied and is in an original way manifesting, cultivating, and demonstrating, and teaching their unique gift, that when you see others that are perhaps, for a lack of experience or depth, coming off as kind of shallow, for me, that brings up a fear of being seen like that. You see what I mean? 

[00:45:22]Marie Mbouni:  I get it. 

[00:45:23]Luke Storey:  So, I'll look at maybe someone a bit younger who is, I'm sensing that hasn't been on the path that long, and perhaps, hasn't really dug into that shadow work and really gone to the depths of hell and back, like I think I have. It sounds like you have to a degree, too.

[00:45:39]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, I have.

[00:45:40]Luke Storey:  I'll have a judgment on them and I'll be like, oh shit, I never want anyone to look at me like that, which is all still the same ego game of wanting people's approval or being afraid of how you're perceived publicly and if you're respected or taken seriously. And I think these are the traps that are really important to illuminate because whether you're a spiritual teacher or you're the best brick layer in the world, to neglect that out of other people's perceived judgment or future judgment is really like a prison that we put ourselves in, isn't it?

[00:46:17]Marie Mbouni:  Absolutely. I'm so happy that you brought that up and you used the word judgment. Judgment really comes from our perceptions, and our beliefs, and the agreements that we make with ourselves. I don't want to be seen as, but somebody else could look at that and think, wow, this is incredible. So, what agreements do we have with ourselves? What prisons do we put ourselves in? What labels do we give ourselves?

[00:46:57] And here's the thing, which is, I don't think that the word ego has been used so many different ways and being made the bad guy, right? However, we need to have an ego to have an individuation. And also, we need to let go of it to have like interconnectedness and oneness. And so, your ego, your uniqueness. However, this real thing about how we come out as. And I think that I have a question, which is, how do you want to show up? Instead of, how do I come off as?

[00:47:55]Luke Storey:  That's good.

[00:47:55]Marie Mbouni:  How do you want to show up? Because it's never really about being perfect because we always have room to grow. I don't know about you. It's like when you arrive somewhere, it's like, there's more to do, right? Like we're never done. So, it is about showing up your best, showing up in the best way possible with what you know, what you have, what you see, what you feel. The job is to be connected to yourself, to be aware of yourself, to know that, uh-oh, I'm going into the ego now.

[00:48:42] Okay. You're back because nobody's ever really completely done, right? We fluctuate. We change. We move. We dance. Like even the universe is like that. Nothing is static. Like, oh, I'm at this level now and I'm just staying here. Even our levels of consciousness, you go high, you come low, you dance, and you go back. And it is our awareness, like what do you do to really be self-aware, to notice that, okay, I said, I'm going to show up this way, however, it's not happening, what's going on?

[00:49:24] What are the fears that are making me act this way? What do I not want to see? Who do I not want to be? Right? You ask those questions, and then you're going to have the answer. And for example, about the young people like maybe who haven't done, I'm just taking what you said, paraphrasing you here, who haven't done enough work and show up as shallow, that's how they show up to certain people. However, there might be other people who are so shallow, their shallowness is that depth.

[00:50:08]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:50:08]Marie Mbouni:  Like their shallowness is like their depth, right? 

[00:50:10]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:50:14]Marie Mbouni:  So, it's this, releasing judgment and just notice like, wow, okay, that was pretty shallow and like, hey, that's where they are.

[00:50:27]Luke Storey:  That's such a good point, yeah.

[00:50:28]Marie Mbouni:  And not make it mean anything about them because they're probably trying their best and somebody is probably just waking up and be like, whoa, that was profound.

[00:50:40]Luke Storey:  Right. Well, that reminds me, on my journey of 24 years or so since my initial awakening that there have been so many different teachers, or books, or teachings, or modalities, or systems that have met me at a certain level on that ascension. They were just mind-blowing, just paradigm-shifting, completely altered my entire world. And I work with them, or that, or whatever it is for a period of time. And then, that just seems to become integrated. 

[00:51:15]Marie Mbouni:  And then, you go to the next.

[00:51:17]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And then, years later, I look back and like, that was basic, like that book, what? I even remember when I first read The Power of Now, I was just like, oh my God, you're not your mind, what? There's a now, what is it a now? It was so revolutionary, where I'm not saying, well, I'm at Eckhart Tolle level now or something, but I read that book now, I'm like, well, duh, obviously because there's been so much integration and life experience since that initial contact with that particular teaching.

[00:51:49] In other words, like maybe I was kind of looking up at that particular vantage point, and then through the work, and commitment, and surrender in God's grace, you're given a higher vantage point. Higher not being better about that judgment, but just would say a higher level of consciousness. So, it's fascinating. And that's what keeps it interesting to me, too Because as you said, there's always more to learn. So, just when I arrive at a place, like alright, I pretty much have my framework for reality in place.

[00:52:16]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, you should never do that because it's going to be challenged.

[00:52:20]Luke Storey:  Oh, my God. Yeah. And I have so much more I want to cover with you because we could go on forever on these tangents, but I recently had a, I mean, completely earth-shattering experience of meeting the Bufo alvarius toad medicine. And I mean, I can't say anything about it. I've been wanting to do a podcast kind of about it or with a shaman who works that medicine or something. I'm just like, I can't say anything really for a while because it just annihilated so much of the fog in Maya and experiences like that that my life seems to be punctuated by at different times is just completely eclipsed so many of my prior understandings, and perceptions, and ways of thinking about things. So, yeah. 

[00:53:15]Marie Mbouni:  That's how it works with consciousness and ascension process, is that it is an ascension. Because if you stop, you're not a standing.

[00:53:28]Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

[00:53:28]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[00:53:29]Luke Storey:  I notice in my case, if I stop growing, it's not even that I get to stay at the same level, I start sliding backwards. It's like riding a bike uphill and you stop pedaling, you can't just stay in that spot.

[00:53:39]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. And one thing that maybe many of the listeners have noticed or maybe not, what happens when you really are committed to the ascension path? I'm not saying being, I'm missing the word here, like really narrow-minded or all, like, oh, yeah. When you are committed, what happens is that as your consciousness changes and your energy field opens, you start having synchronicities, synchrodestinies, and experiences that are coalesced and just come together to give you the experience that you need to go to the next step. And it's just so beautiful.

[00:54:38] Like I laugh, like if you hear me even when I'm alone, sometimes, I laugh out loud because two weeks later, I'm like—but of course, that's why that happened. And I'm going to do a parallel how we started this journey, going into presence and beingness because our job as humans, our spiritual purpose is to be who you are. That's your purpose, to be who you are. Meaning, everything, your gifts, your challenges. Because your challenges, when you overcome them, you'll be able to teach someone else. Like, hey, this is what I did and it helped me. Your purpose is to be you.

[00:55:40]Luke Storey:  That's so awesome. I think I already named this episode. That might take over the title. You're perfect just to be you.

[00:55:51]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah, it is.

[00:55:52]Luke Storey:  Yeah. In all of your completeness and a wholeness. Yeah, I like that because I think many of us think, well, my purpose is to-

[00:56:03]Marie Mbouni:  Teach people how to whatever.

[00:56:06]Luke Storey:  To operate from one's higher self, right? And that's the real you. And then, as you were saying, like the ego and all of this is sort of looked down upon as something that we have to transcend that's not us. But in truth, it really is all part of us, even our lower nature is still kind of tethered to at least this earthly experience.

[00:56:27]Marie Mbouni:  Exactly. And this notion that the ego needs to be transcended is what brings a lot of spiritual bypassing, where people don't want to feel the pain. They don't want to feel the anger. They want to transcend it. You cannot transcend if you don't feel. Anybody who is in metaphysics or energetics will let you know that. Like during my studies, like my studies with humans and my studies with non-humans, no way, you cannot transcend if you don't feel it. That's what transcendence means. It doesn't mean jumping over it.

[00:57:24]Luke Storey:  Going around it.

[00:57:25]Marie Mbouni:  Putting a bra. 

[00:57:27]Luke Storey:  Well, this is a perfect segue way because as much as I love to just go into the depth here, and that's my favorite content to really produce, is just having conversations that I would have, whether there's a microphone off or not. But right now, when it comes to being present, when it comes to facing uncomfortable truths about our life and the world at large, the moment at the time of this recording because who knows when people are going to hear this, someone might listen to this 20 years from now, I hope, but at the moment of this recording, the state of affairs in our world, and especially, I think, in this country where it's really culminating is, from one perspective, I mean, it's unprecedented in the amount of insanity going on right now. 

[00:58:24] And also, just the speed with which current events are moving, it's dizzying and seemingly impossible to even keep up with. So, starting with this, what I've referred to as a plandemic, and we don't have to go into all of that because I've done many podcasts about it. But when this phenomenon, this medical phenomenon, let's just say, started to transpire and unfold, as I do with everything, having a public platform, I really had to sit back, watch, wait, listen to all sides, it's just the way I operate. 

[00:59:02] Emotionally, I had a visceral reaction, where I'm like, I want to form an opinion quickly, and speak out, and fight for what I think is right, and all of this, but I've learned a little bit over the years, 49 of them now that it's best sometimes to keep studying, and gather information, and use my own presence to go inside, and arrive at my perception of truth at any given moment, and perhaps, explore that with guests and on my own.

[00:59:29] On the heels of that came this racial unrest that's unfolding in this country that obviously has been going on for a very long time. It is now coming to a head equally with that situation because there are so many elements to it. It's quite politicized. The media has a very strange role in it that I can't quite understand. I've been left a bit paused on really addressing it on the show. Not in my own interpersonal life and inside my heart, but it's not something I've really talked about because it's almost impossible to keep up with everything that's going on.

[01:00:19] Well, I want to just ask you some questions and really listen, but it's been a little bit difficult for me to get my head around because the experience that I come from in the many years of work that I've been doing and even just how I was raised, I just really see other people and myself as a soul. And so, while I'm aware to some degree, I mean, in this lifetime, I mean, what you call a White body that has a penis. 

[01:00:52] So, I was like, I'm a White male right now. But when I look in the mirror, I'm not like, Luke, you're a White guy. You know what I mean? It's just like I look into my eyes and I go, where are you at, dude? Like I see the real me and I see the real you. And so, I think at times, it's hard for me to address these issues because while I'm aware that people have different experiences in life because not everyone views themselves and other people as souls walking around in a different color or different gender body.

[01:01:24] To me, I'm just like, what is wrong with everyone? So, it's like what my mission, as it feels to me, is to eradicate anything and everything in my life that's not truth and that's not love. And when it comes to injustice, when it comes to racism, when it comes to child abuse, when it comes to violence, any of these ills that pervade humanity, my approach and my viewpoint is that those ills that one might call the evil at their core are a lack of love. And so, my personal solution is, what's missing here? We need more love. And we need me and anyone that I can influence to see themselves, not as their self-identity, as that egoic self of the shell of their vehicle, but who and what they really are.

[01:02:32] And that's kind of my perspective. The challenge there, and I can't wait to hear your take on this, is I realized that even though that's my perception of what the problem really is at its core and what the ultimate solution is that communicating out in a way that doesn't negate other people's experience and the pain body collectively, ancestrally, globally, that people of color or any people that have been subjugated and exploited, how do I communicate that love is the answer without negating or neglecting to acknowledge that experience? Does that make sense? 

[01:03:20]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah, it's a great question. I want to say something really quick here that you said, and it just kind of went past. You talked about the truth being your compass. I don't know how you said it, but this is how I understood it. And truth is not corrupted. Truth is not skewed. Truth is actually the substance that makes the universe. It's mathematical. It's music. It's one. It's zero. So, as far as your question about how do you express your opinion without negating or neglecting other people's experiences or perception of what you would say, and the first thing that came to heart and to mind is that there was a moment in America where there was a pause, it was press pause, Black lives matter.

[01:04:42] That's how I look at it. Doesn't mean that nothing else matters, but at this moment, Black lives matter. And then, it's like when you make a movie, you zoom in, you zoom out, you zoom in, and you zoom out. And what I'm seeing and hearing from you is like the zooming out like, okay, you know what, we are in this mess. How did it start? And what's the answer? Because I don't watch the news because it's just the same thing. And it doesn't mean-

[01:05:23]Luke Storey:  That's probably why you're so happy all the time. There's the key to it all right there.

[01:05:30]Marie Mbouni:  But it's like I'm already aware, right? Like there's a field where we are aware of what's going on. And so, when you look at what's going on, the injustice, the racial unrest, right now, it's Black people, next time, it could be the Brown people, the Mexican, go back to—we're going to build a wall. I mean, it's different things at different times. And what are you doing is asking the question, what's the root cause, because what we're seeing are the consequences of something. That's how I'm understanding. 

[01:06:23] Like they are the consequences of something that is so unspeakable, that is so ugly, that is so inhumane that no one talks about it. It's easier to say somebody was killed than to really look at, what did we do? What are we doing? How are we treating this people on a day to day to day basis? Are we treating them as humans? So, yes, you can talk every day about somebody being killed and showing it over and over, but what is it bringing into the conversation?

[01:07:06] And, Luke, I just want to say this, it is not possible to understand something that is painful, something that is inhumane, like you cannot understand it. That's why when you go deeper and you talk about love because love is an action verb. It's not just a noun. It's an action verb. And love has so many components because with love comes compassion. And when you have real compassion and you see yourself in somebody else, you're not going to put your knee on their neck, it is just not going to happen.

[01:08:06] You can still arrest them, and put handcuffs, and whatever, but you're not going to do that. When you have real compassion, you're not going to treat somebody as a subhuman, as a slave. And there's still slavery, child slavery, women. This slavery with the Black people happened hundreds of years ago. However, it has never been acknowledged. It has never been exposed. There hasn't been reparation. This is not about trying to take it back, like, oh, it didn't happen or we're sorry, we didn't mean to do it.

[01:08:57] No, you meant to do it, it did happen, but how do you repair? By taking ownership and responsibility, and saying, you know what, it happened and this is where we are, we're bringing reparation, however it is done. Because when somebody fields harmed, hurt, and the perpetrator doesn't even acknowledge the possibility of being hurt, that's when you have devastation. Because if you hurt somebody, and you said, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean it or whatever, the person's like, oh, okay, I forgive you. That's how it happens. And what we haven't seen up until now is that willingness to acknowledge, to repair, to own.

[01:09:58] And of course, it wasn't you or me because like we weren't here, right? We were not born yet. And so, it becomes very tricky because some people could say, well, it happened so long ago, why? But the wounds, the wounds that are carried by the parents are passed to the children and carried in society, carried in everyday life. That's why you need that reparation. And when you repair, healing happens. Healing actually means becoming whole. That's what it means. Because when you have this, you're not whole, you're fragmented, like you don't feel like a human. You feel subhuman. And I'm not saying you feel like an animal because animals actually feel better.

[01:11:05]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Many animals have it better off than we do. 

[01:11:08]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah, yeah.

[01:11:09]Luke Storey:  They don't have that prefrontal cortex torturing them in the way that we do. 

[01:11:14]Marie Mbouni:  So, to continue to answer you, when we have this type of issues that are so divisive, and so painful, and that bring shame, and also really wake people up, because many people are like, oh, wow, I wasn't aware of this. Oh, my gosh. People are starting to feel like, am I a jerk because I didn't know. And it's like, it's not about that. Yes, awareness is important. However, putting yourself down because you were not aware is also not okay.

[01:12:00]Luke Storey:  Yeah, that's a good point. And I think in this situation, as things have culminated into this kind of eruption of civil unrest, I've observed a lot of people in my field. And again, a little bit of judgment perhaps, but just an observation, if I can just be clinical and objective about it is there has been this emergence of this kind of subconscious guilt, and pondering, and like virtue signaling, and all of this kind of stuff in it. 

[01:12:33]Marie Mbouni:  No. It's, you're still doing it in a different way.

[01:12:38]Luke Storey:  So, what's your take on that particular phenomenon? Have you observed that?

[01:12:42]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. That's when I'm bringing it on, I've observed that. And it's really about really knowing what's driving you. Meaning, like if you're feeling guilty, what's really that about? What's that about? Were you mean to somebody in high school and it's coming up? Like what is that? Why do you feel guilty? Like really connect to that. And that's what you share from an authentic place, because that's what actually will empower other people to speak the truth, not what you think you should do. 

[01:13:34] I should talk about this and talk about my privilege or whatever. It's, what does it actually accomplish? If it's about the awareness that there is injustice that we have been blind to and this is what we're going to do, then it's productive. It's positive. It's lifting up. Like putting the vibration down and being like, mea culpa, mea culpa, I have sinned, I've been so bad. No, use your power, use your voice to say, you know what, enough because you saying that you're guilty really doesn't help anyone.

[01:14:33]Luke Storey:  That's a really good point. Looking at, I don't know if you're familiar with the work of David Hawkins at all.

[01:14:38]Marie Mbouni:  Yes. I love David Hawkins, my guy.

[01:14:41]Luke Storey:  So, one of the biggest lessons for me in life is his scale of consciousness.

[01:14:45]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, Power vs. Force.

[01:14:47]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And some say he borrowed some of it. Wherever it came from, the scale of consciousness to me is just so beautiful, because I mean, you've got these calibrated levels, according to how much power those energy fields possess, at the very bottom of that scale is apathy.

[01:15:04]Marie Mbouni:  Yes, and then guilt.

[01:15:06]Luke Storey:  Yeah, and then guilt. And that's what I've been observing in looking at situations like this and any kind of social disease, is that we've got to get out of that energy field. And that scale is always my point of reference. And as this situation has unfolded, you see anger, justifiable, right? 

[01:15:31]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. And anger is actually an active energy. It's like anger, when it's channeled properly, is what can make you say, you know what, enough. Like you need to feel that thing that says that this stops now. It comes after anger. But if you're guilty, you're just sitting there. You're not doing anything, like that's just a little tiny above apathy. And in that book, Power vs. Force, he talks about if you're vibrating at 500, which is the vibration of love, one person vibrating at that level can shift the consciousness of 750 people. Just one.

[01:16:17]Luke Storey:  Well, this brings me back to that zoomed-out perspective, as you said, and that's just the way I roll, like I try to not get myopic about symptoms. I want to look at the cause. And the cause makes me go way back. This is where it gets a little tricky addressing an issue like this is from that point of view, and I'm not saying I'm right, but from my perspective, the antidote to all cruelty and what we would deem is evil, again, which under my definition would be a lack of love.

[01:16:49] There's no such thing as evil. There's just, it's missing love in a non-dualistic kind of way of looking at it. So, if we want true power to change, well, first, the change has got to begin within. That's another part B, but part A is that I'm like, how do we get to level 500 as quickly as possible to get to that love? Unconditional love. And what some people will hear, if that's not the paradigm of reality that they operate in, is that that is spiritual bypass and not acknowledging that we have a problem and that you're just, oh, love and light, like, everyone love each other.

[01:17:36]Marie Mbouni:  No, that's not what you say. See, remember when I said love is action. Actually, my medicine is love. Like that's what I work with. And I want to challenge anyone here to really say that they do love because what love is about is about loving the unlovable. Loving the lost. Loving the rejected. Loving the one who has hurt you. That's real love. Not oh, her love and light, like what's that? Love? Have you ever heard of fierce love, a mother's love that lifts a car because their kid is trapped under? That's love. 

[01:18:27] How can you lift the car of this unconscious behavior that brings racism at this level? How can you lift up that car? That's love, not love and light. That's what I'm talking about. How can you vibrate for those who are not activists, or who don't march, or you remember the Maharishi Effect, which is when people of the same level of consciousness sit together and meditate, things change? They avoided wars with the Maharishi Effect of consciousness. So, there is something to do.

[01:19:16] Like when you're sitting in your house maybe in judgment of, yeah, there goes Luke Storey, talking about love or whatever you're doing, just imagine like, how could I change the world with my love? I actually had a challenge that I called heart for humanity, where I help people meditate five minutes a day with the vibration of their heart to change the world because it is possible. It is possible. And so, the vibration above love is joy. And joy is is even more powerful. Like every time I feel really joyful, I send it to the planet. And I was telling you a little earlier, and I imagine the planet with new technologies, and green technologies, and soundless things. 

[01:20:23]Luke Storey:  Quiet leaf blowers. I love that invention by the way, lets manifest that.

[01:20:31]Marie Mbouni:  Yes. Like this loud leaf blowers are like just the passe. This is 2020, come on. All those guys that are tech people who know how to, let's just say, eliminate noise pollution. But, yeah, when I meditate, I dream for the earth. I dream for the planet. And because personally, I didn't go march. That's just not my thing. I'm more powerful energetically, right? So, wherever you are. So, when you talk about your zoomed-out perspective, prefacing or having a premise, like this is a zoomed out, how do we—it's not that you want to run away from what's happening because that's what spiritual bypassing is. It's like, no, I know that this is happening. 

[01:21:35]Luke Storey:  Well, dude, this is so rich. I love that we're diving into this. When all of this stuff started to unfold, I care.

[01:21:48]Marie Mbouni:  Of course. I do know you. Yeah.

[01:21:59]Luke Storey:  When I felt I had something to say, my message is, the presence of evil is the absence of love, what we need here is more love. And I got a little bit of flack. And of course, like it was very little from people that would be characterized as carings perhaps, as not wanting to face head on what we're going through as a species and sort of being accused of like spiritually bypassing or something. 

[01:22:35] And I'm thinking, man, you know, people make so many suppositions and assumptions about what you're doing with your life and where you've been in your life. It's like the past 24 years of my life have been deeply dedicated to going into the darkest, gnarliest shit of every nook and cranny of trauma, and all of that stuff, and bringing all of that to light within myself so that I do have the capacity to actually bring my unconditional love to the world. 

[01:23:09]Marie Mbouni:  I receive your love.

[01:23:10]Luke Storey:  Thank you. 

[01:23:12]Marie Mbouni:  There's one thing I'm going to say, which is that every time you open your mouth or your brain to utter a thought, words, really notice where you're coming from. Because even thinking that somebody else is spiritual bypassing, okay, let's say that they do that, and then you blowing them out of the water, like what is that? Like if I think that you're suffering, like I'll be just like, hey, brother, you know, what's up? Like I'll talk to you privately. I'll be like, hey, are you okay? This is not the Luke I know. Like what's going on? Like I don't really understand. Like give the person a chance to actually express. That's why we not express. Our self-expression as a society is like zero. We can't really say what we mean, we don't mean what we say, we are afraid to say what we want.

[01:24:35]Luke Storey:  Do you think that part of that tendency for us to reserve our truth is due to the cancel culture, and political correctness, and that sort of group think dominance and fear that is so prevalent now?

[01:24:56]Marie Mbouni:  It is true that there is a paralysis happening. And it's really unfortunate because when the racial unrest started and some people were expressing how they felt at their level, they got really like smacked and flacked. And just this like hate and anger. It wasn't even constructive. And it got me thinking like, were you just waiting for an opportunity to like take those people down. Like do we need to perpetrate to continue this separation, this division, this labeling, this judgment? Like if your tribe or your friends and you see that somebody failed by maybe say something you don't think is appropriate, is this how you treat them, by just kicking them off the island? 

[01:26:12]Luke Storey:  Right. The Instagram Island. Yeah.

[01:26:17]Marie Mbouni:  So, really, notice how we appropriate what's going on for our own benefit to show up as if like we're better, and we know better, and really look at that. Really look at that. Look at where you're coming from. Look at, how's your heart? Is it really open? Because even when you want to give flack to someone, what kind of words are you using actually? Are they loving? Are they supportive? Are they constructive or do you just want to kill them?

[01:27:06]Luke Storey:  Well, that's a phenomenon that I've observed through this in the world of social media, is- 

[01:27:11]Marie Mbouni:  It's crazy.

[01:27:13]Luke Storey:  ... that I think most conscious people would like to, in whatever way they see appropriate and effective, elevate consciousness so that there's less hate in the world, right? 

[01:27:23]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[01:27:25]Luke Storey:  Many people in the social media realm are going about facilitating that and by hating the people that don't hate the other people enough. I'm just like, I'm not saying shit, I'm just going to sit this out for a couple weeks, and just relax, and observe, and just like, okay, this is getting weird.

[01:27:45]Marie Mbouni:  I agree. I agree. Because what's happening is that there's a big underbelly shadow in America and it's coming out. It's just like, it's coming out.

[01:27:59]Luke Storey:  Hatezilla.

[01:28:00]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. I hate you and I hate you because people, like I hate you because you don't hate that person. Like what is that? But it's happening. People are killing other people's businesses. It's like social media looting. It's like I don't see anything admirable about that. Like if you really have something to say that you know will destroy the other person, how can you say so that everybody gets elevated? Maybe they're not educated. Maybe they never heard of it. And it's okay. And if you know so well, why not call them and be like, hey, bro, hey, sister, did you know that Black life matters was created in 2013?

[01:29:10] And it's in the UK and Canada. Like educate. That's how you shift consciousness. You don't shift consciousness by brutally kicking people off, or hitting them, or blowing them out of water, or pointing fingers and saying, you're bad, and I'm good. You shift consciousness by being at the level of consciousness where you want to be, by radiating whatever it is, like joy, peace, love. That's how you do that. And it doesn't mean that you're putting your head in the sand. It means, I see what's happening.

[01:30:02] I see that we are having this problem. And this is one of the ways that I think as we figure out ways to change laws and defund the police, like all that stuff, as we do all that, let's raise the vibration. You're not saying it didn't happen. You're not saying love and light, and let's close our eyes. It's like this is a very powerful way to do that. And the other thing I want to say is this quote from Alice in Wonderland, I am paraphrasing, but it's something like everyone wants a magical solution, but nobody believes in magic.

[01:30:55]Luke Storey:  Damn, that's good. 

[01:30:57]Marie Mbouni:  Right?

[01:30:58]Luke Storey:  That's good.

[01:30:59]Marie Mbouni:  So, all these spiritual people say they're spiritual, and yet, when you offer a spiritual solution, it's like, oh, you're bypassing. Okay. What do you like really?

[01:31:13]Luke Storey:  That's great. Oh, God. We people are so nuts. Jesus.

[01:31:18]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[01:31:23]Luke Storey:  Because this, I think, really is born out of my recovery. I had a past of addiction. I'm sure my audience is tired of hearing about it, talked about it a lot. But it's my story. And I try not to dwell on it, but my journey really started when I was reborn at 26 years old. And I was at the doors of death, and absolutely suicidal, and destitute, and just as low as I've ever been in my life.

[01:31:52]Marie Mbouni:  Right.

[01:31:52]Luke Storey:  And it seemed to me at the time that my problems were that I smoked too much crack, too much heroin, I got drunk as fuck every day. I smoke weed all the day, every day, and everything else I could ingest. And all my problems seemed to me at that time, and from my childhood until 26, that every problem I had was created by taking those substances, okay? And so, I went to rehab. I learned to pray to God. And in a moment, I was just set free of that bondage.

[01:32:24] And I knew that something had happened to me and for me that I had no responsibility in. I surrendered. But what I quickly learned was that all of the underlying pain, memories, trauma defects of character, ways of thinking, ways of feeling, ways of treating people, existential loneliness, acute selfishness and self-centeredness, dishonesty, just on and on and on. All those untrue parts of myself and those painful experiences all started to come to the surface, because now, I didn't have any anesthesia.

[01:33:05] And so, I started to figure out and through my recovery work and the 12 steps that all of those problems that were bubbling up to the surface of my life were, in fact, symptoms of an underlying problem. And so, for all of these years, I've been getting down to the root cause symptom of that and going into the depths of every nook and cranny of hell, as I said, to uproot that stuff and put it out in the sunlight and heal it.

[01:33:37] So, in a microcosm of one lifetime here, that's the model that I see all problems from, is like, yeah, they're symptoms. Like okay, so we could talk about racism, and corruption in our politics and in the media, and all of these are symptoms. So, if there is a cause there, their cause that I see is the lack of self-realization of individuals that don't know who the fuck they are.

[01:34:08] And they've self-identified and been programmed largely by the media and by Hollywood to further self-identify into smaller and smaller groups so that now, I'm a cop and I see other as other, not as me or I'm a criminal or perpetrator, victim, whatever the case may be, race, creed, color, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, all that. The more we self-identify as that, it creates a separation between ourselves, and our heart, and our God. And therefore, it's impossible to see others in an inclusive, unconditional, loving way.

[01:34:50]Marie Mbouni:  Absolutely. This is so powerful. It's so powerful.

[01:34:53]Luke Storey:  Okay. So, that's how I'm viewing the problem. Symptoms of that include child abuse. Boom. Speaking of child abuse, Cookie just got hit in the head by the drum. Dog abuse. Sorry, Cookie.

[01:35:06]Marie Mbouni:  No, Cookie is fine. 

[01:35:08]Luke Storey:  She's good.

[01:35:08]Marie Mbouni:  Cookie is good.

[01:35:09]Luke Storey:  She is a medicine dog.

[01:35:11]Marie Mbouni:  I want to bring some energetics for a moment. This drum jumped from the chair and fell down because of what you were saying. Like I was looking at you.

[01:35:26]Luke Storey:  You didn't move?

[01:35:27]Marie Mbouni:  No. Did I move? Like remember, I was telling you that, oh, this is important, and then boom.

[01:35:36]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[01:35:36]Marie Mbouni:  Like it moved from here. And even if I had moved, this is a big chair. You said some things that has a lot of power energetically, and the drum jumped, and fell, and made this noise. And right before it fell, I was already telling him, because I could feel it, like what you just said is so big. And it comes back to what I was saying that the job of being human is to be you. 

[01:36:04] Because if you're so separated from your core essence and identifying with these tiny little things, you can never be you. You're a cop. You're not you. And so, I just wanted to say that you said something really big, which is this self-identification in a separation consciousness. This is actually how slavery happens. Like you are separated from your humanity and you become programmed like a robot. And you think that it's you, but it's not. Separation.

[01:37:05]Luke Storey:  If I'm a phantom self-believing that I'm a man, believing that I'm a White man, believing that I'm American, believing whatever heterosexual, whatever, whatever that story is, and I see that as all I am, therefore, I'm disconnected from who and what I really am, which is behind that mask or that vehicle that I've been granted, it's going to be impossible for me to truly have connectedness and compassion with others. And if I'm isolated as that false self, I have no empathy. 

[01:37:47] So, I can perpetuate violence, evil, abuse of all kinds on anyone, because I don't realize in that state, I'm not saying I would do that, but, I mean, I was kind of an asshole earlier in life, never to that degree, but yeah, I was a selfish dick for a lot of my life, but when you don't understand and have the sense experience of oneness and knowing that you're beyond this physical entity that seems to be you, you can harm another because you don't realize that other is you. But with the realization that the only separation between you and I sitting here is just that on the material plane, we're separated by a body and a couple of chairs. Yeah, but knowing that I am you on the level of consciousness, I could never knowingly harm you.

[01:38:41]Marie Mbouni:  Absolutely not.

[01:38:42]Luke Storey:  So, seems to me the solution is to illuminate this principle, this master principle for people and to go inside within one's self and make your number one fucking job in life to figure out who you are by removing what you aren't, right? 

[01:39:05]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[01:39:06]Luke Storey:  And in that, we find empathy, and compassion, and unconditional love. And within that container, idiocy and just complete—a concept like racism or anything like that is just completely idiotic and impossible from that vantage point. So, my question to you, and I'm sure you've been answering it the whole time, but how do you convey that truth without negating the experience of someone who doesn't yet see themselves and the nature of reality in that way?

[01:39:51]Marie Mbouni:  You just convey the truth without negating their experience. And what I mean by that is when you share, like when you were talking about oneness, interconnectedness, I have experienced that. Like I have had plant medicine experiences or altered space, where it's like, oh, this is the real reality. So, I have done that. And I also know that there are other people who are very Newtonian, meaning, they want to touch, they want to feel, they want to be proven that this is what my reality is and I defend my reality, I protect my territory. And there are those people at that level. So, when you share or when you express your truth, which is something you know, and it's a teaching, I think that it is not about concerning yourself with what your teaching will be thought about.

[01:41:16]Luke Storey:  Right. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Because I think at the root of that, for many people that do have a gift or a point of view, it's easy to second guess oneself and be like, I don't know, I better not express my view because it could be taken the wrong way. And there you are, a victim of your own fear.

[01:41:38]Marie Mbouni:  Exactly. Because then, you're going into fear. And you're actually not present, you're going into anticipation, what are people going to think, instead of—and I'm not saying that doing that will prevent people from like giving you flack. However, when you show up in this like—when I feel that—it's like you feel it. It's like, yeah, this is it. You feel it in your belly. And when you express that, it's not about telling anyone else that yours is wrong, mine is better. It's like this is what I know. This is what I feel. 

[01:42:34] Now, if you tell me that you feel something and I'm saying, oh, you're stupid, then like, am I telling you not to feel how you feel? Like what is that? So, as you express, it has to be a self-expression instead of this is what you should do it, it's like this is how I feel. This is what's showing up for me. This is what I'm struggling with. This is my challenge. This is how I'm going to do this. This is how I'm going to show up. And invite people who want to follow you to be with you.

[01:43:17] So, the key is not to project like projections, interjections, making other people wrong. It's about you and it's about sharing the truth. And I was going to talk about, of course, when you present opinions that are new and that people do not recognize because the brain essentially only wants us to live in a familiar place, like that's his only job. It wants to learn how to tie laces, and be done, and put it. And whenever you bring something new, it's like, whoa, what's going on here? What? 

[01:44:03] So, when you bring something new, of course, it's going to shake people, but the premise, the preamble, the way you present it is what will make it timeless. It's like now, it's racism, it's sexual, gender, nationality, like we've been seeing this. But when you zoom out like your gift is like the eagle, you can be there and be like, this is what's going on. That's your gift. And you share it from that place and you release attachment to anyone's opinion. When you also come from a place of integrity, like not saying, oh, you're an idiot because you're doing it this way. It's like, no, this is how I feel. So, that's how I would answer that question. 

[01:45:09]Luke Storey:  That's beautiful. That's perfect. Yeah, I think in observing—. 

[01:45:16]Marie Mbouni:  And taking your time also like because what I was going to say also is that, energetically, what's happening now is it's like a fight, with like a lot of people like fighting, so like people don't even know whom they're hitting. So, you want to keep zooming out. There is no pressure and no rush to give your opinion about this. You don't have to right now unless you want to, unless you feel called.

[01:45:59]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Well, I think that's where I come from or at least my intention is to come from authenticity. It's always been my goal more so than being liked or anything is just if anyone's going to say something-

[01:46:18]Marie Mbouni:  I want to say something really quick because I've noticed, energetically, that there's bullying going on. I'm just going to say right out. There's bullying. What have you said about this? Oh, I haven't heard you say anything about. It's like, really? Do I have to? Can I just feel and cry in my house at the injustice? Do you know how I feel? Do you know my belly? Do you see my tears? Do you see my sadness? Are you here with me? Why do I have to expose it to the whole world to see in order for it to be real? I don't know you, I don't know how you feel. So, there's that bullying also, undercurrent bullying going on and people positioning themselves, oh, I had the most Black people on my platform, like what is that?

[01:47:18]Luke Storey:  Well, thank you for illustrating that. I'm glad you did it and not me. Yeah.

[01:47:26]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah, I know how much you care.

[01:47:28]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[01:47:30]Marie Mbouni:  And yeah.

[01:47:33]Luke Storey:  I just have a commitment to myself. I make a lot of mistakes. 

[01:47:36]Marie Mbouni:  Who doesn't? 

[01:47:38]Luke Storey:  I mean, I just started smoking goddamn cigars again, and I quit nicotine like nine years ago and I'm never going back. I went to ceremony, Costa Rica, I was smoking some of that tobacco.

[01:47:48]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, mapacho.

[01:47:49]Luke Storey:  Yeah, the mapacho in ceremony. I was like, Luke, you better not. And I thought, I'm in ceremony. It'll be fine. I came back as like, where are my Cubans?

[01:47:56]Marie Mbouni:  Mapacho is pretty good.

[01:47:57]Luke Storey:  It's delicious. But anyway, I have my vices, I have my faults, I backslide, I make mistakes, but one thing that is just really, really important to me and my character is just truthfulness and authenticity. And that is not always easy when one has put themselves in a position to have a platform and have a voice. And I mean, I don't know, I'm not that big of a deal, but there's a few people going like, hey, what's your take on this? And it's like, oh, lay back in the cut. Because when I say something, it's going to be true and it's got to be from the heart. And I need the dust, like you said, the dust to settle a little bit. There's this skirmish and the view is obscured.

[01:48:38]Marie Mbouni:  It is obscured.

[01:48:39]Luke Storey:  So, the only thing that I know is the root cause. I think I know the root cause and I know the ultimate solution. But even when you pop off with that, if you're not saying that in a way that many people feel like you should say, they're game of spiritual bypasses to project their shit on you because you're not doing activism right-

[01:49:00]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah, which is like a label, like who said that this is how it's supposed to be done? Who said? So, really, when I look at it, it's really bringing out the shadow of the conscious people, like how are you actually showing up? Are you that compassionate? When you point fingers, like what is that? When you blow people out of the water, what is that? Right?

[01:49:33]Luke Storey:  Oh, man. So good. Yeah.

[01:49:36]Marie Mbouni:  And so, really, you know, when I talk about self-awareness, is like every day, at the end of the day, I examine my day. I examine my day because that's how you can. Pick it up because spiritual bypass or this thing, they're so sneaky and sexy. I mean, it feels like, yeah, I'm standing up for the Black people, you know, like you feel good and it's like what, by putting somebody else down? Like what is that?

[01:50:16]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's not productive energy.

[01:50:18]Marie Mbouni:  No. 

[01:50:19]Luke Storey:  Destructive energy, I think, is the thing I've observed with that.

[01:50:24]Marie Mbouni:  I've observed it too. So, really, being true to yourself and not being pushed into taking a position that you're not comfortable with. And it's okay, because when you look at all of the native societies, the Africans, the natives, like when there's a ceremony or a thing, like the elder is not the first person to speak actually. All the kids speak, and then like the teenagers, and then like the grownups. And at the end, the elder speaks. Not at the beginning.

[01:51:19] So, thank you for being an elder. That's how it happens. So, I mean, I'm a little silent because I feel you, I feel your energy, and I know what you're doing for humanity and the planet. And it's one of the things that I experienced, too, the translation of the metaphysical and the bioenergetics into words that are understandable by everybody. Like it takes time to distill the truth, your truth, my truth. And it's actually harder to hold in every situation, sex, food, whatever, like holding is harder than doing actually. So, what you're doing is actually harder.

[01:52:36]Luke Storey:  I've noticed, I've noticed. Well, yeah, it's being thoughtful, and deeply caring, and also, being thoughtful in wanting to demonstrate wisdom, and to be patient. But you're right, it is a bit uncomfortable to sit in the patient sometimes and wait for understanding to pass through, where there's some path to navigate, at least to identify, okay, this is the way I'm seeing this, this is the way I think I can most effectively contribute and understand to that course.

[01:53:19]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[01:53:19]Luke Storey:  But before that, it's a little wonky before one has a chosen path or perspective on something. Cookie just got her haircut today. Come here, sweetie. So pretty.

[01:53:32]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. 

[01:53:34]Luke Storey:  This is one of the first times she's never jumped up on one of the chairs. Usually, she jumps on the guest chair. And if there's-

[01:53:39]Marie Mbouni:  No, we've been communicating.

[01:53:42]Luke Storey:  Yeah? 

[01:53:43]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. 

[01:53:44]Luke Storey:  She's been a good girl.

[01:53:45]Marie Mbouni:  She's been good.

[01:53:45]Luke Storey:  What I want to ask you now, and thank you so much for that, what a gift to be able to get your perspective. It's just, oh, man, it's like so healing for me. I appreciate it. Man, God, I recovered so much, but I do have a couple other questions. And that would be, 

[01:54:07]Marie Mbouni:  Uh-oh, drum roll.

[01:54:09]Luke Storey:  No, this is good. We got through a lot of it.

[01:54:12]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[01:54:13]Luke Storey:  Yeah. We got through the sticky stuff. 

[01:54:16]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, I love sticky stuff. It's okay. 

[01:54:18]Luke Storey:  I do too. It's fun with you. I want to ask you, I think, really now, and maybe we can kind of bring it to closure with this, is I think I asked you a bit about this before, when it comes to plant medicines and their seemingly self-guided proliferation into Western culture and the way these plants have seemed to make their way around the world now and this subculture that's being created, I think I asked you about it, if I'm not mistaken, from the perspective of not so much the positive side of it, which I want to cover for sure, but in the kind of cultural appropriation of shamanic traditions and the sort of blase plant medicine, just kind of perhaps unthoughtful side of it and maybe done in a little less ceremonial or less conscious way.

[01:55:23] And I think if I'm not mistaken, you said something to the effect of, these plants want to get out and they have their way of doing it. And the plants ignore who is doing it right and who is doing it wrong. Like they're going to get in the hands of the right people that are going to carry humanity forward through their gateways that they're opening to these other planes of reality, something like that, or at least, maybe that's my interpretation of how it works. So, I guess my question is, what role do you see all of the different medicines that are now becoming more widely used? What's their role in our awakening? 

[01:56:06]Marie Mbouni:  So, I'm going to finish with the first question about plant medicines coming out and wanting to be used, to be our allies in our awakening, our great awakening, and also, really cautioning people who are wanting an experience to make sure that the person giving them, serving them the medicine has integrity. And I'm saying this because of safety. Are you getting a questionnaire about your health, your medications, your allergies, things like that? Because you can have bad experiences, right? So, do your due diligence. So, just that word of caution.

[01:57:07]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I appreciate that. Whenever I do is show around that topic, I usually give a disclaimer, quite an extensive one at times. I've been very fortunate, I think, just using discernment and it took me so many years, so many years of knowing about the plant medicines, and psychedelics, and whatnot before I decided to dive in. But when I did, I did a lot of due diligence to make sure that I was in good hands, and I have been very fortunate so far.

[01:57:35]Marie Mbouni:  And to continue answering the question, I think that the plant medicines are really here to help us bridge the gap between our humanity and the greater consciousness because to me, being human is actually all of this. It's like multidimensional. Like that's what it means to me. And we have lost that. We have lost the connection to our hearts. We have lost the connection to our bodies. We live from the head up. We have lost the connection to nature. That's why we can damage it.

[01:58:21] So, we have lost so much of what it means to be humans. And when people start working with plant medicines, they reconnect to their humanity. They reconnect to nature. They start having this awareness of the greater reality of what's actually real, not what we're shown. And they're really happy to be here and they really want to help. And they are coming. They are coming and they are here. And yeah.

[01:59:06] So, like grandmother medicine is, I just see her like moving, and like brilliant colors, and moving, this is the movement that I see. People probably can't see me. However, it's like an undulating movement, like a dance. And the energy that comes from it is like pure joy, play, and yet, structure. Yeah. So, she's here and all the medicines are here. Like they want to be here and they will be here. And so, I am not going to be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, it's like so awesome. 

[02:00:17] And the other thing I would like to see is more—I call it translation, when I was telling you a little bit ago about how when we work with metaphysics and the spiritual, and sometimes, the translation of words, of concepts, like distilling it down where people can understand the principles, the practices, can be a little challenging. So, I look forward to seeing better practices with people who are providers, and that are not real shamans, and who serve a role, right? 

[02:01:05] And more communication and connection with the people who live closer to these plants. And you use the word cultural appropriation, which I think mean one world. And I think that if only a certain people did certain things, like we wouldn't even travel to places, right? We would just be like, oh, you're African and that's your thing, and I'm American and I'm not going to eat that food because it's your food. And like I said, I'm an Aquarian and I'm a rebel.

[02:02:04] And I'm really of like a human race. What's important is integrity, acknowledgement, sacred reciprocity, sacred activism, like really being pure of intention. I think that that's probably what people are talking about. And so, if you find yourself—okay. Let me find good words. So, certain people, they host ceremonies and they have people. They give them medicine. They don't watch them. You know, they leave before they're completely out of the—like that's not responsible.

[02:03:10] And they don't do things like in a sacred place, the plant medicine do not like that. They're sacred. So, that is not okay. And if you feel called to be a provider, go do some learning, find a teacher in every hero story because the thing is you are dealing with people's consciousness. This is not light stuff. When you take those medicines, have you ever experienced that? You want somebody who can hold you. And you never know what could happen. So, if that's what you want to do, go get some training, get a teacher, get a mentor, get help, get support so that you can share these beautiful allies in a safe and responsible way.

[02:04:16]Luke Storey:  Well said. In my own experience at this point now, as I said, after being sober for a long time, I don't know if I ever talked to you about that, but for 22 years, I didn't take anything mind-altering other than nicotine and caffeine. And then, in 2019, I went and did a series of ayahuasca journeys. And I don't have to tell you, but nothing was ever the same. And I was able to I think because all the work that I'd done, just boots on the ground, on the notch for so many years, just fucking meditating, just all of the discipline and all of the surrender, I think that foundation was really helpful for me going into that first medicine experience because I know what surrender feels like already.

[02:05:05] And so, there was no resistance. It was just like, oh, shit, let's do this, let's go, let's go, mama. I'm just like, I just had complete trust for the experience, the facilitators, the medicine, et cetera. This was at a place called Rythmia. And it's been interesting over the past, I guess it's been a-year-and-a-half because I've had so many insights and so many profound changes that have just sped up my evolution, and my healing, and my growth, and just knock down walls, and walls, and walls of things that were preventing me from fully expressing my dharma, my destiny, who I am, my authentic self as we've been discussing. 

[02:05:52] And because every single experience I've had, which has been quite a few different medicines up until this point, have been so productive, it's like I know my intention when I walk in, my guide knows the intention, I'm not just fucking around to see some colors, although that's nice, too. I'm not mad at that part either at all. I'm not going to lie about that, like I love hallucinating. But the thing is with that is like someone I really respect and care about recently just said, hey, like I'm feeling a little something with you in this journey that you've been on that there's something a little off with it. And they didn't say exactly what, but they said, maybe open your mind to consider just a pause on this exploration. And to me, it's like-

[02:06:47]Marie Mbouni:  What does that mean in English?

[02:06:48]Luke Storey:  Well, I'm like, I mean, they didn't even recommend that I pause. I think they just said like, maybe it's something to take a look at. This is becoming a pretty-

[02:06:57]Marie Mbouni:  So, what they're saying is you're doing too much medicine or?

[02:07:00]Luke Storey:  Maybe that it's a little bit, not like in an addictive way, but just, it's getting pretty frequent because I just love it. And because every time, I get so much done. It's like this sense of accomplishment, like, fuck, I just relived my birth and healed that. I just went through three past lives and healed. Just like the medicine is just gifting me these experiences. So, the question there, understanding the sacredness of ceremony, the intentionality, the company, the setting, all of that, cool, as you indicated, I'm wondering where the line is of perhaps not getting addicted to the experience, but perhaps an attachment to the progress being made.

[02:07:46]Marie Mbouni:  Okay.

[02:07:47]Luke Storey:  Do you know what I'm saying?

[02:07:48]Marie Mbouni:  I totally get it.

[02:07:49]Luke Storey:  So, it's like if last weekend, I took seven grams of mushrooms and like figured out my entire career, or the book that I'm going to write, or work through a relationship problem, whatever it was, to me, it's like, logically, well, I should do that again this weekend. Look what a gift that was. Why would I just not do this all the time?

[02:08:09]Marie Mbouni:  So, there are two phases of actually having a plant medicine journey. Actually, three. The first one is the preparation. The second one is the actual ingesting the medicine, sitting in ceremony. And the third part is the integration. So, the integration part is what sometimes many people skip because it could take even two or three months like for the downloads to really finish coming through depending on who you are, right? 

[02:08:54] Like for some people who are advanced, it's like, it comes and they know. And so, after you're done with an experience, consciously deciding to have an integration time will help you notice that, oh, am I wanting to run away or am I doing this? And the second part of my answer is that addiction, it's such an interesting term, right? So, for example, the traditional way of sitting in ceremony is really not what most Western societies are using, like we're using plant medicine for evolution, our business. 

[02:09:58] It's not like you're going on a vision quest, where you then come home and sit for six months with like a shaman guide, like trying excavate. This is like I have a business and I came here, grandmother, because I wanted to help me release whatever it is blocking me for seeing my bigger vision, right? And then, boom, you do that. So, you don't need to sit there six months if she said, oh, you've got to heal that shit. Like, yeah, go heal it. You know what I mean?

[02:10:35]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[02:10:35]Marie Mbouni:  So, it's like you have to see the context, but the thing that's for sure is that plant medicines are not used anymore like they were. It's the intentionality. And however, you always have to have integration. And when you give yourself a period of integration, it will help you not miss things that might be subtle. Because the thing about plant medicine, you have the big, like huge stuff, and then you have the subtle stuff that's also happening, that's easy to miss if you don't get yourself an integration time. Usually, three weeks is good.

[02:11:26]Luke Storey:  That's really helpful, yeah. And it reminds me of the experience I alluded to earlier of the 5-MeO-DMT, which is very brief, the actual experience itself.

[02:11:41]Marie Mbouni:  It's like minutes.

[02:11:43]Luke Storey:  It's brief, but the initial, you know, acceleration or leaving the orbit is so fucking intense that it was like, the integration of that and there was like past-life things, and things with my mother, and some beautiful things that came out of it, but the brief moments or however long it was, where there was an obliteration not only of the personality and the egoic self, but also, of the observer, almost all the way where there's not even observer observing it.

[02:12:21]Marie Mbouni:  No, it's just like one. 

[02:12:23]Luke Storey:  Just oblivion. And so, in situations like that, the integration is just like. I don't know what that meant, it's just going to manifest, and I probably won't even know how it's integrating, right? 

[02:12:37]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[02:12:37]Luke Storey:  And so, what's happened since that, interestingly, and I think there's a correlation here, just brain chemistry-wise, if nothing else, is after that, I decided to take a pause because I respect my loved ones that said, hey, maybe just consider just slowing down for a second and taking a look at that. Okay. Cool. I'll do that. And I think really what's happened in the integration of that experience is, it was great advice because it's allowed me to really get very grounded because I was getting a little like, I just want to be in the quantum, man, Like I don't want to be in my body, like I'm out there getting stuff done in the ethers, and past lives, and talking to the elders. It's like, why do you want to be down here?

[02:13:21]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, no, you do want to be here.

[02:13:24]Luke Storey:  So, what I've done is just really like, man, I'm organizing my Dropbox folders, and I hired a new assistant, and I'm doing real like earth stuff. We're writing my book, getting a writing coach, outline, proposal, I'm actually like extremely focused and grounded. And I really think that that last medicine experience, whatever it did to me and for me, allowed me to just land back here, and be more focused, and more effective.

[02:13:53]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. One of the things that when I work with my clients is you live on earth. 

[02:14:04]Luke Storey:  Goddamit.

[02:14:05]Marie Mbouni:  This is where you are. Like you're in a body. And so, everything is a dance. It's a balance, right? Sometimes, I don't know how often you use plant medicines, but sometimes, there's something that you're seeking that it could be conscious or unconscious. And when you get it, like you got it, you stop. So, if you're still going, it's not necessarily an addiction. It is, you're looking for something that you're not getting. And so, you think, well, maybe if I do it this way or with this one, I will get that. And you may not know what it is.

[02:14:57]Luke Storey:  That's really interesting that you would present it that way because I just remembered, in that last experience, one brief part that I remember was I remember asking sort of the medicine, or God, or just the field, or my higher self, I said, man, why I'm so gung ho, I'm so full on with like my growth and my commitment, and I was sort of tuning into some past lives where I was just so deeply committed to my spiritual path. And I said, why am I so hardcore about everything? I'm just so extreme, like I'm just doing this.

[02:15:32] And the answer came back, it said, I answered the question kind of, I said, because I want it all. And then, immediately, the medicine said, Luke, you already have it all. Like what you're looking for in all this shit, it's already there. And what a beautiful gift. And I think that also kind of resonated with that pause of like, oh, maybe—not to say I'm never going to do plant medicines ever again, but maybe it is time to stop and go, well, shit, like I actually made a lot of progress. I'm okay. I'm doing okay. I don't have to like just keep charging forward on this pursuit of enlightenment.

[02:16:22]Marie Mbouni:  And the other thing is that depending on the beginning of the journey, you talked about your addiction, and usually, post-recovery, not like at the recovery, people really have to be vigilant and it's kind of like you got to do it every day. And when you start being committed about your ascension, your enlightenment, however you want to call it, then, of course, when you start seeing results, it's like, I want more results, so I need to do more.

[02:17:05] And that's why I talk about the providers, like when you have facilitators that are, at a certain level, they will tell you, you need an integration period. You need an integration so that you can receive, you can come back in your body, and you can live that here. And everybody's integration is different, integration period is different. And the other thing is that you always want to make sure that you come into your body because this is where it's happening.

[02:17:55] And you see a lot of conscious people who are, like they're not even here. And that's like, our job is to be here and to be, actually, because we are the only place where we get to have a body. We get to have a body. We get to feel. I had an experience where I was hosting, I was holding a ceremony, plant medicine ceremony, and there were entities that were trying to come in that I didn't want to come in. And so, I had said no. And actually, like they attacked, like I was battling with them, but I was battling with them with like, if you had a visual, it was like mathematical equations.

[02:19:12] I mean, of course, this was like being encoded from the divine. And so, I was telling them that this here, this place is a place of love, and they were battling me because they didn't know what love meant, that they didn't know what love was. These entities, they didn't know. And so, I feel like the whole room was like mathematical equations, like in like 3D. And when the space was filled, I was like, this is love, like it took like the whole room with symbols and things. And when I said, this is love. They were like, oh. And they left, like yeah.

[02:20:05]Luke Storey:  Wow. That is incredible.

[02:20:08]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah. And I mean, like if you had looked at me, I was doing like that, just like writing and like the whole room going up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down. And I was explaining to them like, this is love. And they were like, no, we don't get it. We don't get it. And then, when everything was done, I put equal love. And then, they were like, wow. And they were like cool.

[02:20:48]Luke Storey:  That's awesome. I love that. I remember one of my first couple two or three ceremonies, maybe afterwards speaking to a couple, the facilitators. And then, I was like, I just say, man, thank you so much. You guys held this amazing space, like just incredible the way you orchestrated this. And it was just fascinating. It was quite a big group of people, maybe 50 participants. And they were just so on it. And she was just explaining her process and said, well, yeah, we're all drinking the medicine all night. And I was like, wait, what?

[02:21:19]Marie Mbouni:  Oh, yeah. You have to drink the medicine.

[02:21:21]Luke Storey:  Yeah, she's like, yeah. I was like, I'm laying there, like, I mean, I can't even walk. And she's like, oh, yeah. She goes, that's how we create the grid. It was like the grid. And it is kind of like what you described. It's like, oh, no, yeah, we set up the grid and the ground to make it safe and secure for everyone else, like whoa.

[02:21:36]Marie Mbouni:  Because when the medicine comes, like everybody comes to play, the good, the bad, like, oh, yeah, you have to set up a grid, and it's like, no, you don't come. And if people like those, I think they just kind of saw like, oh, I think there's a party there type of energy and let's go. And I was just like, no. And they were just like, what? Kind of like that. And then, I was like, no, this place is like about love. But yeah. No, you drink the medicine because that's how you go into that consciousness. So, when I'm holding a ceremony, for example, I could be sitting here, but I'm with you and I know what's happening, or if you need help, or that person, like I don't even have to like open my eyes to see. It's like a grid. It's so beautiful.

[02:22:46]Luke Storey:  The thing I want to close with is an idea that I'm into it that you've considered, going back to the root cause of suffering and especially suffering that's perpetuated by one on another, if at the root of that is the ignorance of what one really is as one single point of consciousness in the greater whole of unity, of one unified field of intelligence and love, one aspect of God, if that's what we are, if we're unaware of that, will harm ourselves, will harm others. There's this sense of separation.

[02:23:29] And as you said, some people are trapped in that Newtonian paradigm where you can explain that to them and it sounds insane because they've not yet had that visceral experience. They still think this chair is solid, the table is solid. You're a Black woman. I'm a White man. There are rules around all of this. We have to follow this. There's history that we have to act out and all this shit. It seems to me, plant medicines might be the way on a large scale out of that.

[02:23:58] And I say that because every time I'm on medicine, I'm like, how can we get the shit in the water supply at Washington DC? You know what I mean? I'm like, if we like dosed everyone in the media, and in the world banking system, and in the education system, and all governments, and police force, and military, if we could just show them who and what they are, then we could have a quantum shift. I know that's an idealistic impossibility at this point.

[02:24:25]Marie Mbouni:  Well, maybe not.

[02:24:27]Luke Storey:  What do you think?

[02:24:31]Marie Mbouni:  I think that it reminds me of the pill in The Matrix and really knowing that it's a dream that we can dream. There are dreams that I call impossible dreams, but they can still be dreams. And knowing that when you dream impossible dreams, it's not always straightforward and there can be challenges, but I think that dreaming a world where plant medicine teachers can be adjunct to our education, to our growth is possible. And knowing that growth or becoming aware of reality is not always easy, it reminds me of a quote, a dialogue in The Matrix, the movie, The Matrix, it's Neo, Neo asked Morpheus, "Why do my eyes hurt? And Morpheus tells him, "Because you have never used them before."

[02:25:51]Luke Storey:  Damn, that's good.

[02:25:54]Marie Mbouni:  So, being awake can hurt. And so, taking all that into consideration, yeah, I think that plant medicine teachers could be the way to really create a better equality system, an equality consciousness and awareness, and create change from that level and bring that change down to the physical level. Because when you're conscious of something, when you become aware, you can never unsee it. You can never unknow it. And they are based on love. I mean, this plant medicine teachers love us. 

[02:27:09]Luke Storey:  Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influence your life that you might share with the audience?

[02:27:16]Marie Mbouni:  Three teachings?

[02:27:17]Luke Storey:  Uh-huh, or teachers. 

[02:27:18]Marie Mbouni:  Teachers.

[02:27:19]Luke Storey:  Books, philosophies, people, anything.

[02:27:25]Marie Mbouni:  So, grandmother ayahuasca, she's been a great teacher, her patience. And I remember, like a journey before last, I wasn't leading the ceremony. I was there as like an extra shaman. So, I was having a journey, and I had taken the medicine, and all I could see was black. And it's color, right? All I was seeing was black. And then, I was like, I close my eyes, I turn, I squinted, squeezed, and it was just black.

[02:28:28] And then, I ask her, I was like, what's going on? And she said, oh, you need to be comfortable with the dark. I was like, whoa, what does that even mean? But I was like, okay. And she let me be like that. Like I wasn't seeing anything. I was just seeing black. And then, after a while, she said, do you know what this is? I was like, no. She was like, this is the void of creation.

[02:29:03]Luke Storey:  Whoa. Damn. 

[02:29:07]Marie Mbouni:  I know. She's like, if you're not comfortable in the dark where nothing exists, you cannot be a creator. Because before things are created, they don't exist. If you create something that already exists, you're just copying. So, you need to be comfortable here. I was like, damn.

[02:29:31]Luke Storey:  That's dope.

[02:29:37]Marie Mbouni:  That's dope. I mean, she-

[02:29:37]Luke Storey:  I like that.

[02:29:37]Marie Mbouni:  ... works with me like that way. And I want to say I learned a lot from David Hawkins, because for the first time, I could put into words the things that I knew but couldn't explain. So, it was more of a technical language, tools that could help me translate the quantum field, the energetic field, the consciousness field. And I really learned a lot from him. Who else? My teacher of bioenergetics and sound harmonization, French. 

[02:31:06] And like when I studied under him, we were like working with the music of the stars, like he would create the horoscope or the cosmic picture of the day. And each planet has like notes and that's where the music of the spheres comes from. And so, we were working with the stars and we did qi gong of the stars. And like, I really got to express at a universal level, like there was no limitation. 

[02:31:59] And the whole premise was when I look at the moon, I become the moon. When I see the stars, I become the stars. When I see the river, I am the river. I am the moon. I am the sun. I am the stars. So, that really helped me expand my field, expand. And we worked a lot on the heart, forgiveness, compassion, acceptance. And in my heart field, if you see energy, it's like it's a vortex. And so, that was like, yeah.

[02:32:40]Luke Storey:  Does that teacher have a name?

[02:32:42]Marie Mbouni:  Fabia Mamo. 

[02:32:44]Luke Storey:  Fabia.

[02:32:45]Marie Mbouni:  Mamo.

[02:32:46]Luke Storey:  Mamo.

[02:32:46]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[02:32:47]Luke Storey:  Fabia Mamo.

[02:32:48]Marie Mbouni:  Yeah.

[02:32:48]Luke Storey:  Okay. Cool. We'll try to track them down and put it in the show notes. This has been incredible, man. Oh, my God. It's such a gift to be able to have conversations like this. The icing on the cake is that it's being recorded and that I just can hope someone could have one small slice of the joy that I get out of having conversations with such amazing people like you. 

[02:33:15] It's an excuse, like having a podcast is an excuse to have conversations like this and be able to take a couple hours to do it. If we're at a party or something now, we'd chat for a minute and be like, she was awesome, but I couldn't really dive in unless we were really good friends. So, I want to thank you. And where can people find your website, which is your new beautiful website, and your social media, and whatnot?

[02:33:38]Marie Mbouni:  So, I'm going to give them, use evolvewithmarie.com. It will take you to my website, where you'll find free resources, you'll get to know me, and interact with me. Evolve is E-V-O-L-V-E, withmarie, M-A-R-I-E, .com. And my Instagram is @MarieMbouniMD. So, my last name, Mbouni, is spelled M-B as in boy-O-U-N as in Nancy-I. So, @MarieMbouniMD on Instagram and Facebook, the same.

[02:34:24]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me. This has been a great time.

[02:34:28]Marie Mbouni:  So good. I love you. And it was fun. And I got to say what I wanted to say. I want to really say this, I did not feel inhibited at all. I did not feel like I had, how do you call that, an outline or a byline, like I didn't feel stuck in a box. I felt free to express. And this is a gift. Not everyone could do that. Like when you ask a question, you let it go. You're not attached to how I'm going to answer. And that is huge. Like I get interviewed a lot and people are like, they ask a question, but they hope that I'll answer it a certain way. And I'm like, wait, no, that's pressure. But with you, I was free to do what I want. That's huge. And thank you for creating such a platform and having me. I love you.

[02:35:45]Luke Storey:  I love you, too. I'm glad you came back. Yeah, I'm glad we got it done finally. And if you ever serve up some medicine, please let me know.

[02:35:54]Marie Mbouni:  I will.

[02:35:55]Luke Storey:  I'd love to hold that space with you some day.

[02:36:00]Marie Mbouni:  It is already done. And it's done. It is done. And since things have closed, I do drum journeys that take you like with our plant medicine or-

[02:36:16]Luke Storey:  You just did one at the beginning, I'm telling you, it was hard to talk.

[02:36:18]Marie Mbouni:  No, it's my gift.

[02:36:20]Luke Storey:  I was like, oh, shit.

[02:36:22]Marie Mbouni:  It's one of my gifts. Like I can take people, like I just go, like that's my gift, like just like that. So, cacao, drum. 

[02:36:33]Luke Storey:  Right.

[02:36:33]Marie Mbouni:  We'll do it.

[02:36:33]Luke Storey:  Set. Alright. Thanks so much, Marie.

[02:36:33]Marie Mbouni:  You're welcome.



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