[00:00:00]Luke Storey:  I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Harry, the healer, here we are, dude.

[00:00:26]Harry Paul:  We are here. Thank you, Luke, for having me on.

[00:00:29]Luke Storey:  So good to see you.

[00:00:30]Harry Paul:  This is great.

[00:00:31]Luke Storey:  I'm glad we got to fit this in, in your busy schedule.

[00:00:34]Harry Paul:  Thank you.

[00:00:35]Luke Storey:  Traveling around, healing the freaking world.

[00:00:39]Harry Paul:  That's what I do, man.

[00:00:40]Luke Storey:  Yeah. It's so fun to have the opportunity to work with people that I interview and befriend them as I have with you. And so, it's always just easier and more of a continuation of what we'd be talking about anyway. So, I don't even think of it as an interview. But anyway, here we are. So, let's start back at the beginning a bit. I find your story, and all the things you've been through, and where you ended up as the embodied person you are now, but you grew up in a ranch in New Mexico, and then on an Indian reservation. How did that help shape you?

[00:01:18]Harry Paul:  Well, the first part of my life, we lived on this big ranch. So, it was a lot of wide open space. And I'm the sixth child. My parents had five children, and then they went 10 years and had me. My mom always said, honey, you were an accident. And I said, no, I was a surprise, mom, there's a difference.

[00:01:37]Luke Storey:  A great distinction. 

[00:01:42]Harry Paul:  Very important. So, we lived way out in the middle of nowhere between Santa Fe and Las Vegas, New Mexico, on this ranch, beautiful ranch. And how it shaped me is I spent a lot of time alone, and with a lot of animals, and in the mountains. So, I had experiences that I thought everybody had. I thought it was normal. I thought every kid is probably having these experiences. I never really thought about it, that I was the only one having them. 

[00:02:16] And then, we lived on the reservation near Gallup, the Navajo reservation, and that really, really shaped a part of my life because it took me back to my Indian roots, which is, the Native American Indians honor everything, honor the Earth. The mythological story of the buffalo is that the buffalo offered themselves up as sustenance because the Native Americans honored every part of the buffalo and used every part, from the meat to the bones to the horns to the height. And so, really, that shaping of me to honor everything in life, honor myself, honor the earth, and honor our process here in this dimension on Planet Earth. So, it shaped me a lot.

[00:03:20]Luke Storey:  I'm wondering what it was like to be a kid in a rural area in New Mexico and discover you were gay. When did that happen and was that difficult for you to work through?

[00:03:31]Harry Paul:  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I developed a lot of traits of hiding myself, hiding because two hairy legged boys liking each other in New Mexico in a cowboy family is pretty taboo. It's like Brokeback Mountain. So, yeah, I had a lot of parts of myself. So, I think I always knew I was gay, but I had a girlfriend, and she was a twin, and I was friends with both of them. And I was over at their house one night and he locked us in his parents' bedroom and showed me a thing or two, and I think I discovered, well, I think I'm gay. So, it takes a lot of acceptance. Acceptance, I think, for all of us. 

[00:04:26] No matter what we face in life, it's acceptance, for all parts of ourselves. And in the world, where did it come from that it's not okay to be gay? It's like, it doesn't matter who we love, it matters that we love. Souls have no gender, so we're capable of loving anyone if we choose to, if we really evolve through the layers. It's only the Bible that tells us it's not meant to be Adam and Steve, it's supposed to be Adam and Eve, because homosexuality has been all through time. I mean, if Leonardo da Vinci had been straight, he would have painted the Sistine Chapel white with a roller. It wouldn't have been the same.

[00:05:18]Luke Storey:  Yeah. So, that, I guess, was part of your gift, in really learning how to cultivate self-acceptance and embracing uniqueness because you're a very unique human in the best way. But I think why ask that question was I'm always just interested in the process that people had to work through, especially when they're young, because even if you kind of fit the more traditional mold of a person, which I never did, I mean, I wasn't gay, but I might as well have been because I was such a freak to all the other kids at school.

[00:05:52]Harry Paul:  You were queer. You were unusual.

[00:05:55]Luke Storey:  Totally. Real fucking queer, yeal weird, yeah. I mean, in the best way, but it was, I think, a similar kind of learning experience for me. I just had to kind of, in a sort of rebellious way, just embrace those things that other people found hard to accept and eventually through a lot more work that that led to an acceptance, but I think that feeling when you're young of not fitting in, even when you do fit in, is pretty strong for most of us. But when you're in an area like that, I think I reflect too because I lived in Colorado for a bit in a really small town when I was a teenager, and I had earrings, and wear eyeliner, and had big '80s punk rock hair and leather jackets, and there were like two kids in the whole town, me and one other kid that looked like that.

[00:06:39]Harry Paul:  Yeah, we would have been friends.

[00:06:41]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I mean, you're kind of always looking over your shoulder waiting for one of the jocks or preppies to kick your ass. And luckily, I was never subjected to violence, but there was a fair amount of ridicule and things like that. And I think that's just the nature of small-minded, less cultured people to make that more difficult. But perhaps, you were brought into this body with your preferences and way of being in that place because it was a perfect karmic opportunity for you to get that lesson, right?

[00:07:14]Harry Paul:  Yes, absolutely. I mean, at one point, I said, God, how did you put me in this family, in this cowboy family? I'm sophisticated, I'm worldly, and here I am. And then, I really got it. I accepted. I accepted it and I got it. I couldn't have been any other way. It was such a gift coming through that way because I got to experience unconditional love for myself. And that's the thing that I feel like we all incarnated here for, is to learn how to love ourselves totally, fully, completely, and unconditionally, so however we come to that. And we're always trying to fit in. Too many of us are trying to fit in.

[00:07:58] And we can't fit in. We can only be unique. We're all unique. All 7.4 billion or how many people there are on this planet, we're all unique. We're like snowflakes. We're all unique. And we can't fit in. We can't be like another person, we can only be ourselves. And once we learn that, acceptance is the first tool that I learned, accepting self, and then allowing, just state of allowing is absent of any negative vibration, just allow oneself to be. It's a process, though. Certainly was difficult, I have to say. I found a lot of heartache and you get to plow through it, and really learn how to accept yourself. Wasn't easy.

[00:08:48]Luke Storey:  And what eventually led you into spirituality, the healing arts, going to Peru to study with shaman, and then eventually becoming a shaman? What were some of the key touch points, teachers, or teachings along the way, whether it was a book, a guru, a meditation technique, yoga? What were some of the stepping stones that moved you toward where you are now?

[00:09:12]Harry Paul:  When I was 17 and we lived on this, my parents raised racehorses and I became friends with this girl and she was doing TM meditation, and I said, oh, I'd like to try that. And so, I began meditating. And it really opened up a whole world for me. And then, I moved to California and that opened up a whole new world. That's when I really slid out of the closet out here in California because you could be free. You could be much more free than in New Mexico. It's much more accepting out here. But I started meditating and I think I've always been spiritual. I think it's just something my mom always told me that I was always a loving person, and it was just natural for me to be spiritual.

[00:10:10] Most people say, we're human beings having a spiritual experience, we are the spiritual experience. Look, Luke, we're sitting here, we're two human beings, we're energy in motion, we're energy, look, we're being able to communicate right now. We have a voice box, two little vocal folds that go together, and we can make a sound, and translate meaning so that we resonate or communicate with each other. So, we were such a phenomenon and there are so many intricate parts to being a human being, and accepting, and really being spiritual. All of life is spiritual, all of life.

[00:10:51]Luke Storey:  And what led you to Peru to start investigating shamanism and plant medicines?

[00:10:57]Harry Paul:  I really wanted to learn like advanced techniques as a human being, like the secrets to the universe. Yeah. And I was very drawn to Peru because of Machu Picchu and all the things there. So, I wound up just going on a spiritual, mystical journey, and going to Lima, and going to the Temple of the Sun and Moon, and then going to Nazca, and really experiencing phenomenons in the world. Yeah, I just studied with different shamans. And every shaman is unique. There are no two shamans alike. It's like human beings. The shamans were amazing, and have different gifts, and shared different things. And I was just fascinated with it. I was what I call on fire. I think I'm always on fire, probably pretty much like you, Luke. It's like we're-

[00:12:03]Luke Storey:  Full on.

[00:12:04]Harry Paul:  Full on. Yeah, thank you. 

[00:12:05]Luke Storey:  We're going to do it, fucking do it. 

[00:12:06]Harry Paul:  Fucking do it, yeah. Full on.

[00:12:10]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's funny because we're talking about that—it's funny as we record this for those listening, Harry and I have worked together in two ceremonies using MDA and psilocybin, and MDA being the heart opener, and we'll get to that process, but beautiful, transformative experiences, but very deep, like really deep medicine experiences. And last night, I went out with a friend of mine in a little one-on-one ceremony, and we did white lily, and canna, and sassafras, three really great plant-based heart openers. And then, it was the opportunity to take some psilocybin. And I just took a little because I kind of was like, wow, I don't know. Let me just see how these three heart openers play out. 

[00:12:55] And about halfway through that, I was like, God, I should have took in more, goddammit, because it's like the experiences I had with you with that kind of stack of a combo were, I mean, I think different than ayahuasca, but as profound and deep in the realizations, and lessons, and teachings that I was able to gain, and going out into that quantum field, and accessing information, and memories, and things that needed to become up and healed, and spiritual amends that needed to be made to people in my life, and unborn babies that I aborted, and crazy shit. 

[00:13:35] I mean, just like, wow, this is deep stuff. But I thought that I would get some sleep last night and come into this interview fresh, and I maybe slept two hours, so I'm kind of still in the medicine. So, it's actually fun being with you because I don't know, two at least of the extensive periods of time we've spent together have been so deep and these really profound experiences. So, I'm kind of having a flashback at the moment. So, I'll try to keep on track here. When you were studying with these shaman down there in Peru, were you guys using ayahuasca, or San Pedro, or anything, or were they just healers?

[00:14:12]Harry Paul:  No, they were just healers. We weren't using anything except just knowledge, and learning, and experiencing. That's all. Yeah. It wasn't that kind of journey. But amazing, amazing things, like each one of them. It's almost like, I don't want to call it a magician, but it's like they would show and reveal amazing things. And it was so revealing, so touching, and so beautiful, but I was just like I was in it. I was in it to win it. I was just like, I'm fascinated. And then, I wanted to be a shaman. And you go through the fire, you learn how to exist in the flame.

[00:15:06]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's interesting that you had those experiences with them that had that much of an impact without the medicine, because now, in the work that you do, when you're somewhere that you can legally do it, you work with medicines. And if you're not, and other times, you're just based on a client's preference, I guess, you also do shamanic healing journeys with no medicine. Do you think that was the seed that was planted? Like the medicine route is one option, but there's a lot that can be done just eliciting the supernatural powers that we all have latent.

[00:15:40]Harry Paul:  Yeah. There's so much that can be done utilizing supernatural powers, that everything we're ever going to be, we already are. So, how do we unfold that? How do we uncover that? How do we let it evolve? And how do we hold the space for ourselves to really allow that to happen? The only reason that one does the medicine is to be able to hold the state of beingness. And the medicine gives you a different perspective on life. You're able to have epiphanies, revelations about yourself, and for you, it's like, you're very methodical and you went through like different veins to really sort out a lot of different things for yourself.

[00:16:26] And you've got a lot of things. That's what it's like. It's like you can evolve through lifetimes with medicine. And MAPS is really working diligently with the FDA and to approve. So, because they've showed the studies that it brings people through PTSD, through deep depression, through trauma, shock, devastation, and it's so valuable. On the nightly news, I saw a woman that they had administered a psilocybin too, and she had Stage IV cancer, and she said that she really had a lot of fear.

[00:17:11] Our number one fear in life is dying. We're afraid to die. And so, she really felt her fear on the journey and she felt where she held it in her body. And she said she was able to release it and she felt more free. Now, they've done documentaries on it, and it shows, sometimes, it can extend one's life. But even if it doesn't, it's still, a person has quality, more quality of life while they're here. So, so beneficial.

[00:17:42]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it certainly has been for me. I mean, with every experience that I've had with you or others, it's like, afterward, I think, oh, my God, what if that hadn't happened. Like the shit that I'm able to just plow through, and just demolish all falsehood or unhealed elements of myself, and just to be able to see with such clarity and depth into my own experience, and what's blocking me from my full expression. And after every one, I'm just like, I don't want to be a promoter of these kind of things, because I think it has to be the right place, the right guide. You have to be in the right place, and you're right, there are so many variables.

[00:18:30] And just for me, it's happened to be this way for the past two years. But every time I have one of those experiences, it's like I want to run on a rooftop, and just be like, everyone, do mushrooms, what's wrong with you? Because it's just like incredibly deep work. Yeah, I had no idea. And you know what's funny about mushrooms, actually, and I want to get into kind of how you landed on that as your weapon of choice, so to speak, but I was writing this piece for mindbodygreen about how psychedelics and plant medicines have supported my sobriety, which is totally counterintuitive to almost all models of addiction recovery.

[00:19:10] This is why it took me 22 years to venture into this world. So, I was writing this piece and I realized as I was writing it, and this took me 22 years to discover, that my sobriety was largely due to a mushroom journey that I went on when I was still on drugs and drinking. I mean, like drugs, drugs, heroin, crack, like the baddies, the ones that I have no spiritual benefit except maybe to get you to surrender your life to God eventually if you live.

[00:19:43]Harry Paul:  If you make it through.

[00:19:44]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And it did. So, they served their purpose. But I was just trying to get drunk and I used to sell mushrooms. Sold weed and mushrooms in my apartment behind the Chinese theater overe here in Orange Drive. And so, I'd have these big five-gallon buckets of mushrooms that I'd buy from this guy in Oregon. And so, I always had a lot of them. And one night, me and my buddy were bored and we were getting drunk, I said, let's just take a bunch of mushrooms.

[00:20:09] No consciousness about it at all, I just wanted to escape from being me because it was so painful being in my skin. And then, I had a meltdown, like a little nervous breakdown in that mushroom journey. I thought I was going to be laughing, and being goofy, and getting sore cheeks from smiling so much, but I started crying and just like basically whining to my poor, old friend who just wanted to party, that like I'm a drug addict, dude, I got to get sober, I can't do this, I'm throwing my life away. 

[00:20:43] And then, went on, and kind of hit a bottom over the next few months, and eventually did get to the point where I got checked into rehab, and did my thing, and had a spiritual awakening there that has persisted with a lot of work. But I didn't realize that that mushroom experience was the catalyst even while I was still on drugs. So, that actually helped me to reframe the use of plant medicines and these sacred medicines in the context of being sober because I don't know if I would have gotten sober had I not had that clarity in that breakthrough on that journey that night. 

[00:21:19] As unintentional as it was, it was just the stark reality of my demise became so clear to me, that within a couple of months after that, I did the unthinkable and I go to rehab. I don't know if anybody's ever been to rehab, but they don't have a bar in there, there are no dealers in there. You are fucking sober, and it's painful, but it happened. And so, I really thought about that. I was like, wow, that's really, really interesting, that I went all those years without making the connection, but that was a huge turning point that night. So, anyway, enough about me.

[00:21:52]Harry Paul:  They offer that, though. Just to expand on that, they offer that. Sometimes, the studies show that it doesn't take people on a journey of being an addict to go further. It shows quite the opposite, that it gives you, like you said, in your experience, clarity, that you don't want to do that anymore. You want to get clear about your life. You see, they're completely meant to evolve and unfold in consciousness. I don't recommend doing them without a guide because I think it's great.

[00:22:26] But I've worked in sober living, and treatment, and most people who are addicts, Luke, and I'm sure you can attest to this, you're a sensitive guy. You're very sensitive. Now, our sensitivity is our gift as long as we can use it for us. But alcohol and drugs usually allow us to numb ourselves too, because being a sensitive person, and I would say you're an HSP, a highly sensitive person, and that's your gift, any time we're sensitive, it's a gift. But it can feel like a curse or a burden unless we use it for us because you can see things in such a small minute detail of life, but you don't want to use it against yourself.

[00:23:11] If we can have no internal negative self-talk and be sensitive, that's a gift. No internal negative self-talk. And medicines really allow that to happen because it gives us a different perspective and allowed you to get clarity. Now, once we have clarity, clarity equals fun. And most of us want to have fun. If life isn't fun, it isn't life, and you're no longer interested in being fucked up anymore because the medicine doesn't fuck you up. It doesn't take you to a place. It makes you aware, makes you alert, and makes you feel good. And there are only two ways to feel.

[00:23:50]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's like the first time I did ayahuasca. I think the thought crossed my mind. Man, is this just an escape? Not like, oh, shit, I'm going to go home and drink or something. I mean, I felt solid about my sobriety, but I just thought, am I running away from something on this medicine? And it was just a microthought for a second. And I thought, no, this isn't an escape, this is an inscape. You're going to go as deep into yourself as possible. And it's like, it's the last thing you'd want to do, the intentional use of medicines, if you're seeking to escape because the exact opposite will happen. 

[00:24:29] You will be faced with those things that you're running from. And I think that's the nuance, we're in the new realm of recovery work, especially. What I've found is that I've been able to continually heal those parts of myself that caused me to feel so uncomfortable that I had to numb myself with all of those dumbing down agents, those other types of drugs, right? So, it's like, the whole point of recovery programs and everything is to get down to the root cause, and the drinking, and the drugging, and whoring around, and all the things that we do.

[00:25:08] It appears to be the problem because that's the behavior that creates the most noise and drama. So, like when I got sober, I just thought, oh, my God, I got to quit these drugs. I can't pay my rent. I'm losing friends. I'm 135 pounds and yellow. Now, I'm 185 by contrast, so I was in bad shape. And so, I thought, well, I'm just going to get the drugs out of the way and I'll be an awesome person. I got the drugs out of the way and I felt extremely uncomfortable for the first couple of few years because there were still those things in my subconscious that I couldn't reach.

[00:25:39]Harry Paul:  Well, you felt vulnerable, didn't you?

[00:25:41]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, just naked to the world, and the world was made of sandpaper, you know what I mean? Sandpaper walls everywhere, and they're closing in. Yeah, being sober without changing and really deeply healing is extremely uncomfortable. And that's why the success rate of most, even the best programs out there, aren't that great, because if someone isn't committed and doesn't have the help to achieve that inner awakening, then you're still—it's like they say in AA, they say, what do you get when you sober up a horse thief? 

[00:26:20] You've got a sober horse thief. Getting sober doesn't make you another horse thief. You're a horse thief because your character is fucking fucked up because of the way you've been living. You've degraded your own moral character, and disconnect yourself from God, and your higher self, and true self. So, unless that stuff's dealt with in one way or another, whether it's medicines or not, I don't think anyone could stay sober for any considerable period of time. 

[00:26:46] And if they are, probably not happily, not in a contented way. They're just like, God, I know I can't drink because it'll kill me, but life still sucks. And I lived like that for a long time. So, I have so much reverence for the experience that I've had with medicine, and especially the work I did with you, as I said, extremely, extremely profound. I mean, just totally unexpected. You must've got some from your shaman down in Peru, because I remember the first time I think I looked over at you, and I was just so deep in the medicine, and you just knew exact songs to play, and you were so tapped into my experience. 

[00:27:21] And Cookie is there with me, And I don't know if you remember, I looked up at you, and I said, man, Harry, you're a fucking wizard. From that moment, that's how I always see. And I was like, oh, there's this precocious, sort of playful, loving, benevolent wizard in there. So, I can see how you discovered that in yourself early on, but what led you to specifically work with psilocybin? And then, even in the combo of the heart-opening medicines, the MDA or MDMA and that whole mix. 

[00:27:56]Harry Paul:  I've just never experienced anything that allows a person to evolve and unfold in consciousness to really reveal, and live a healthy life, and really move through things because we feel trauma, we feel wounds, and most people live out of their wound. As a human being, most of the time, we magnetize to the negative, we magnetize to the wound rather than magnetize to the positive. And if we can magnetize to the negative, isn't it possible that we magnetize to the positive?

[00:28:29] What it does is it reveals, and it reveals so much about yourself, one's self, because we're in avoidance, usually. We're fearful or we're resistant to feel what we're feeling because we're so sensitive, or to deal with something, or face our shadow, or turn and face our shadow. And once we've turned and faced it, it's like a puff of smoke, usually. It's not that big of a deal, but it's being able and willing to do that. The medicine really offers that.

[00:29:02] It offers such a different perspective. We don't see life how it is, we see life how we are. And the medicine really offers you a different perspective. And it allows people—I mean, I could give so many different scenarios, but it allows for evolvement and unfoldment in this lifetime. And that's all we're here for, is to really live in our greatest self and how we move through that. And MAPS is doing really a lot of work and I hope that it continues to allow people because therapists recommend it. Therapists and doctors recommend it, some do, that it really helps. 

[00:29:47] We've done documentaries on PTSD and how psilocybin can really move people through. I went to an event, and this woman, she had returned from, she had been in Iraq and Iran, and she was completely—she said her PTSD was so bad that she wasn't functional, she couldn't function. And she did it three times, guided, and she was fine. How valuable is that for all of our veterans or for anybody who has trauma. And pretty much being a human being and growing up, we all have some sort of shock, trauma.

[00:30:26]Luke Storey:  I don't know anyone that doesn't.

[00:30:28]Harry Paul:  Yeah. 

[00:30:28]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Because sometimes, trauma is what doesn't happen. You didn't get affection or you were ignored because you're the middle child. Trauma isn't always getting smacked in the face. Sometimes, it's like, you're ignored, and that's your trauma. It's like the lack of something, not the addition of something that shouldn't be there. So, I agree. And especially in anyone I've known with mental health issues and addiction issues, I mean, it's like, it always goes back to the trauma, and all of the repercussions of the original trauma, and as we have to hold it within ourselves, and don't know how to express it and process it, it gets repressed. And then, we build this suppression, repression mechanism, where anything uncomfortable that comes at us, we're just like, no, don't deal with that, don't deal with that, until we're like a powder keg of dysfunction.

[00:31:20]Harry Paul:  Yeah, which really gets us into trouble. That's why self-help doesn't work, Luke, because we're the problem. I grew up, I was traumatized because I grew up. I was the most affectionate, got the least attention. I was like, well, if I can be affectionate, why can't everybody else? Somebody can be affectionate, it's okay. I was traumatized by it. I had to heal that.

[00:31:46]Luke Storey:  Yeah. We're in 2020 now, when did you first have a psilocybin experience yourself that was transformative? And then, when did you start training and learning how to facilitate and take other people on journeys?

[00:32:05]Harry Paul:  I studied with a guy, and really did the medicine in a guided way, and it was so—I realized what was occupying the real estate in my head, like I realized how the things that were taking me out, because we have a divine mind, we have an insane mind. And my insane mind was taking me way out. And I noticed what was taking me away and it was so powerful for me to realize, well, that's just keeping me from my greatest self. All these things that I'm preoccupied with, that I'm distracted with because we're either connected or we're distracted.

[00:32:50] And it really showed me so many things that were distracting me. And it was like I was able to really use my internal muscularity to go, okay, I'm tracking my internal environment. I'm going to be vigilant about tracking my internal environment. I'm going to stay here, and I noticed all the things that were taking me away, and it allowed me to align to be really single-mindedly focused and fine-tuned, so I got to calibrate myself, and it was so powerful to me.

[00:33:22] I was so taken with it, that that could be the process through the experience, that I was like, wow. And you do feel like you want to shout it on the rooftops. Most everybody that I know of, that has experienced some sort of, it's like, because it's liberating. I mean, to be free. Inside of love, there's freedom. To be inside of love, and to be free to be ourselves, and free to be unique, and free to just feel like you have freedom. We forget how much freedom we have, but there aren't words to express how that feeling is. And most people want to yell it from the rooftops. 

[00:34:10]Luke Storey:  Yeah. It's like when you feel as though you've stumbled across such a huge key in the lock that we face our stuckness as a race, then you see your trauma, and then you walk down the street, and you just see everyone's trauma being projected in one way or another, and you know how to undo it. It's like, I'm just like, God, everyone needs to do this. Let's put ayahuasca in the Washington, D.C. Water supply, like fuck this, man.

[00:34:43]Harry Paul:  Wouldn't that be great? 

[00:34:44]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I mean, obviously, a really good idea.

[00:34:46]Harry Paul:  Really good idea.

[00:34:46]Luke Storey:  For anyone out there, I wish these Antifa terrorists would do something useful like that instead of tearing down a Starbucks or whatever. So, how long ago was that when you had those first experiences and started looking at this? I want to get a little scope of time.

[00:35:01]Harry Paul:  Okay. So, when I had an epiphany, I changed my life 31 years ago. So, I became a healer.

[00:35:07]Luke Storey:  Wow. Damn, man. That's a long time. 

[00:35:12]Harry Paul:  Yeah, I'm only 27, Luke. 

[00:35:13]Luke Storey:  For those watching on video, he's 65, and then he looks about 45. Looks like I have a couple of years on him at 50. Okay. So, what have you seen change in the world of psilocybin and/or plant medicines in terms of popularity, public acceptance, the potential legality. Now, psilocybin's legal in Oakland, and Santa Cruz, and Mexico. 

[00:35:44]Harry Paul:  And Colorado. 

[00:35:46]Luke Storey:  And Colorado. Right. So, there are places where people can go have these experience without having to do some weird underground "illegal drug" experience. What was it like in the beginning versus what it's like now? Because other than going to Grateful Dead shows, and taking acid and mushrooms, I never had any conception that they could be used for anything other than that.

[00:36:09] And this is in the early '90s and I'm sure there were kind of little microplant medicine communities, and healers, and shaman around in this country, but I certainly wasn't meeting them. It's only been really past four or five years. I'm seeing like, God, almost everyone I know has had an experience or continues to have experiences is part of a prayer group or a medicine group. And it's becoming ubiquitous, which I think is so healthy for us as a species. I really just think it might be our only hope, honestly. I really believe that. 

[00:36:42]Harry Paul:  I agree. I agree.

[00:36:44]Luke Storey:  So, what was it like in the beginning? I mean, how did you guys communicate when's the ceremony? Were you more paranoid about it being illegal? Because now, it's kind of like mushrooms aren't really a big deal to a lot of people.

[00:36:56]Harry Paul:  No, there wasn't any fear that I experienced, and it was a large group and it was so beautiful. I mean, the music was so amazing and the shaman was amazing. It was just, everybody was so happy. And it's like taking a happy pill, or it's like tuning in to happiness, or tuning into your own joy. Joy's innate within us, that we're never separate from it. It's always there. It felt so good. It just felt like a coming together. And when your heart opens like that, you realize, wow, love is real.

[00:37:35] Anything else we're experiencing outside of love, we're hallucinating. Love is real. Like this is amazing. This is beautiful. Let's share this with the world. What if the world leaders could do plant medicine so that we're acting like high school students in our debates. And politically at the moment, it's shocking that we have supremacy in the world and this is how people are behaving. So, to do something like this is so beneficial.

[00:38:09] And the first time I did it, it was just like, wow, amazing. Well, I mean, I did acid in the '70s, just a brief period of doing it, but it opens your mind so much. That's why, say, Jimi Hendrix. Jimi Hendrix, he would play for like five or six hours, and he would put tabs of acid underneath his bandana. And as he began to sweat, he would sweat, the acid would roll down, and he would just lick it, and keep going, and keep playing. Anything that opens our mind and opens our heart is going to be beneficial for us.

[00:38:54]Luke Storey:  It's really interesting on that note, in medicine journeys, I often feel like that's as sober as you can be. You follow me here, right?

[00:39:08]Harry Paul:  Yeah, completely. 

[00:39:09]Luke Storey:  Because it's like you become less encumbered by your personality, the ego, analytical mind, and you become actually what you are at the core, which is the most sober. I mean, if I think of myself, I'm like no drink or drug one day, okay, I'm sober today, and I'm thinking neurotically, and obsessively, and reacting from patterns developed by trauma, and PTSD, and all the shit, I'm actually insane, even though technically, my blood work would show I'm sober, go take medicine, and all that shit gets healed, and put to the side, and I'm merging with God, and the God within me.

[00:39:49] Like that's as sober as you can get. But I think the distinction, I'd like to get some feedback from you on ways to do this, but because you're taking medicine, and the veil is being lifted, and you're having a higher degree of truth reveal, essentially like the clouds are just being moved away so the sun can shine. But then, the next day, you're not on the medicine. You've got to go to work. You're still getting a divorce. You're doing whatever you're doing.

[00:40:23] And so, those clouds come back and seem to obscure the light of God or realization for us again. And it seems what has helped me not just have a peak experience, and be like, wow, that was cool, I had some realizations, I don't know what they are, what to do with them, but I've been pretty mindful about communicating the things I learned with Alyson, my fiancee, or friends, and making sure I verbalize it or write it down, and then really do my best to integrate that, or if I see a pattern re-emerging in my waking, non-medicine life, I can go, oh, ding, ding, remember, Luke?

[00:41:02] This is what you hit up again, don't run from it now, because you've already faced it, you have the courage to face it. And it's a boogeyman like you said. It just disappears the moment you see it. These falsehoods and things. What are ways that you yourself, concrete ways that you've learned to integrate the realizations and lessons? And how do you work with integration on people that you hold ceremony for? 

[00:41:30]Harry Paul:  Well, integration is highly important. Today's revelation can be tomorrow's ego trip. And it's very important. Integration is so important. The day after, you may feel a little bit like, oh, I'm exhausted, I just need to—and you need to rest. You just need to rest and just let things integrate. I think we don't integrate and process enough in our lives to reflect and go. And then, it's a practice of being present. The first step is being present, really being vigilant about tracking our internal environment.

[00:42:07] And like you said, oh, okay, I ran up against a hard edge. Okay. I remember that. I remember that. And you know what to do because life is all choice. We're choosing every moment. So, the days afterwards are, for integration, highly important. And it's having a spiritual practice of really practicing single-minded focus. Meditation is practicing single-minded focus to connect. And it's called singularity. If we can do everything that we do with absolute, total, and complete focus because the people in the world, if you're a ballplayer, it doesn't matter, football, basketball, baseball, golf, tennis, you've got to keep your eye on the ball.

[00:42:50] It's all about focus. So, the integration is highly important. Listen, it doesn't matter if we know everything, Luke. We can know everything. It's, can we do it? Can we do it? It's like, okay, our inner being, even when we check in, our inner being knows everything. The second step is, can we do it? We make good choices for ourselves. Do we have an unconscious commitment to sabotage ourselves because it keeps us from our greatest self? We can have the revelation. We can have the epiphany. But integration is very important, the days afterward, rest. Very, very, very, very important. 

[00:43:30]Luke Storey:  Because otherwise, it gets minimized to an intellectual aha moment, or as you said, something the ego can seize on, and be like, check out the revelation I had about myself, I'm so insightful. The ego will grab anything, any crumbs it can get and build a structure out of it. But I think the realizations, they lack the context and potential for change unless you really take them, and embody them, and put them to work.

[00:44:02] And I think because I had been doing that without medicines for so long, because I didn't want to suffer anymore, not because I'm a great guy or anything, but eventually, the non-suffering helped me be a better guy. But with the medicines, it was just, I mean, every little nugget, those morsels of truth, and realization, and insight into the psyche, and spirit, and all those things, it's like I can't wait to go back into my life and see what my life looks like with those lessons applied rather than just being an intellectual construct or a spiritual story you can brag about because you're so deep or some shit. 

[00:44:41]Harry Paul:  I call it debugging and upgrading the human operating system because we're like computers. So, if we have stories that we're telling us ourselves that don't serve us, aren't we playing on a loop? If we delete that, shift our focus, then our human operating system can operate more efficiently. If we have apps running that are like belief systems that don't serve us, the number one textbook thing for us as human beings is who we are is not enough.

[00:45:08] If we have that at playing, who I am is not enough, I will never be able to do that, oh, I'm not good enough, oh, I don't fit in. All those, it's like an app. All these apps, if you unload that app and you file it away, then your human operating system can operate more efficiently. Our inner being would not tell us anything negative about ourselves. So, when we can really be vigilant, and track, and be present, and we notice we're living our greatest self, and it's important.

[00:45:42] It doesn't matter if we know it if we can't develop that internal attitudinal muscularity to really embody it and be it because one of the most powerful questions that we can ask ourselves is, how am I being? How am I being in this moment? How am I being? How am I being when my lover stands in front of me? How am I being when my boss stands in front of me, when my children stand in front of me? To be authentic, to be vulnerable. Like for you earlier, was such an important point to be vulnerable. 

[00:46:15] What are we doing if we're not being vulnerable? We must be vulnerable because what are we doing? We're wearing a mask or putting up a shield. Rumi, the great poet, said, we're not here to seek love. We're not here to seek love. We're here to find all the barriers to love, and let them down. We're here to be loved. And so, we must be able to develop that internal attitudinal muscularity to really be it. We can have a revelation. And then, we must embody it. We must be it. We're human beings. We get to be it. 

[00:46:50]Luke Storey:  Speaking of body, for whatever reason, we didn't do a lot of body work during the sessions I did with you. But I know that that's the somatic experience in body work, whether you're working with medicines, or the people that you choose to, or in locations where you're not using medicines, you'll work with people and do a lot of the healing arts. And it has to do with that oscillator thing you have. I want to talk about that. You have done that. I mean, it's freaking addictive as hell. 

[00:47:18] But how do these cobwebs, and subconscious wounds, and stuck patterns and things, how do they live in our body? And what are the ways you use energetically or even physically to help move those things out of our tissues and out of the matter, where you start to think we are, as that matter become so dense, as we get burdened by these experiences, and beliefs, and all the falsehood, and then your spirit starts to open up, but you still have this dense body that's still wanting to hold on because the nervous system is used to being in a certain response to protect itself. And just because your mind and spirit has become liberated, that doesn't mean the body is necessarily going to be along for the ride. Is that kind of roughly it? 

[00:48:08]Harry Paul:  Yeah.

[00:48:08]Luke Storey:  So, when did you start putting that piece into practice and what are some of the ways you've seen it unlock someone's full potential?

[00:48:19]Harry Paul:  Oh, in so many different ways. I think that's the first way I started because I went to a massage school. 

[00:48:23]Luke Storey:  Oh, I didn't know that. 

[00:48:25]Harry Paul:  Yeah, I went to massage school. And then, when I graduated, I went and got a job with a chiropractor at Beverly and Robertson here in LA.

[00:48:35]Luke Storey:  Oh, wow.

[00:48:36]Harry Paul:  Yeah. And I worked with a woman named Susan Jeffers who wrote a book called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.

[00:48:41]Luke Storey:  Oh, yeah. I've heard of that book.

[00:48:43]Harry Paul:  Yeah, it's simple. It's great. It's so good. But we record things from our life on a cellular level that it gets encapsulated in our bodies, but it's mind-body awareness. Because if it's in our body, it's in our mind. If it's in our mind, it's in our body. So, I mean, they've come out with all these articles lately on cognitive therapy. Cognitive therapy is great, but it only takes us so far. We must get in the body. So, this amazing man, Norman, he custom-made me a, it's called a North Field Magnetic Oscillator.

[00:49:23] So, it's a vibration and it has magnets in it. So, it's energy medicine, which we forget about energy medicine, right? And so, I oscillate the body because what it does is, the best way to explain it is it penetrates all the way to your electrons. So, it goes in, it breaks up and shatters any heavy, dense energy, and it balances the cells to zero point. So, we're cleaning on a cellular level. And what I do, what I call is I call it cellular erasing. So, I'm erasing shock, trauma, devastation on a cellular level out of the body because we have our heritage, our lineage that we've passed down. 

[00:50:05] Maybe our grandfather was abusive, and then our father was abusive, and then we become abusive unless we become a transitional character to stop the buck here, right? So, the body is so important to really find and get in there. We live in a heavy, dense universe. We live in a fear-based universe. Just watch the news. Yeah? So, we really get to notice where we're addicted, Luke, to heavy, dense energy. The insane mind, the ego tells us, well, if I can suffer [making sound] it gives me some sort of validity as a human being because it's like wrapping yourself in a warm blanket because it's familiar.

[00:50:44] And if you can suffer, that's familiar, right? It's okay to not be okay, but it's certainly okay to be okay, to go, okay, I can choose something different and choose peace in this moment. I can choose peace right here, right now. I don't have to go to all that. But sometimes, we have an unconscious commitment to suffer. We're suffering addicts sometimes just to suffer. And then, we're sensation addicts or our addict is an addict, our issues have issues. 

[00:51:23]Luke Storey:  My addictions have sub-addictions. It's like the the addictive iPhone. It's like, sometimes, I think, ah, I just got to be on Instagram less, and then I realized, like what about the 10 other apps you're addicted to also? It's like, no, the whole phone just has to go.

[00:51:39]Harry Paul:  Yeah.

[00:51:40]Luke Storey:  A friend of mine texted me today, oddly enough, we were on a telegram conversation, a former guest on the show who I guess will remain anonymous, but brilliant woman. And she sent me a voice message, she said, you know what, Luke, she heard this interview I did with Jeanice Barcelo about birth trauma, really super triggering, a hardcore reality check of an episode, and at the end of it, we were talking about cellphones for some reason, and she's like, I don't have a smartphone, are you kidding me?

[00:52:09] I don't use that stuff, rots your mind or whatever she said, but this woman texted me, she's like, after that interview, I really think I'm just going to get an old school flip phone, I'm done. Like I'm just opting out of this. Because of all the wormholes of obsession, I'm assuming. For me, that's what it is. It's like, if I could just use it as a utility and have the discipline to only use it for that, but it becomes this dopamine pinging addiction.

[00:52:38] And so, I guess that's the fun thing about life is, hopefully, as you progress, your addictive tendencies tend to gravitate towards things that are less destructive. There are times of my life I was addicted to stuff that could kill you in one try and did it every day. At least with the phone, it's a slow death of numbing you out of consciousness. These experiences that we have, as you said, they really do get stuck in our body. And that was really indicative of working with you. 

[00:53:09] As you'll recall both times I've sat with you, three quarters way through the experience, my body just starts involuntarily shaking, especially my hips, and it's just this undulating thing, and I could tense my body and stop it, so it's not so involuntary that I couldn't make it stop, but I don't want to make it stop because it's what the body wants to do. And I found those two experiences to be almost uniform, and also something that I've never experienced before.

[00:53:41] And I've done Kundalini yoga for eight years. I mean, like I've had a lot of far out, just totally natural, 100% sober experiences, just using breath and moving the energy of my body, and the mantra, and all of that, but that shit was on another level. And I don't know if I've ever really asked you about it. I just kind of went through it, and then parted ways, and whatever, but what did you sense was going on in me where the body wanted to do that? And is that common when you do work with people that their body has this spontaneous, seemingly autonomous experience?

[00:54:18]Harry Paul:  Well, you had it both times. And it's my theory that the medicine works with your plasma. It works with allowing you to shed heavy, dense vibration. It allows you to raise your vibration. So, it's like you're fitting into new skin. So, sometimes, you just have to shake and shake into it. It's like just fit into your new skin. Because from the place that we live from internally, you're living from a more expanded place. And that's what we want to do is live. And so, the shaking is you're just like, okay, that space internally is just expanding so that you can live from a more expanded place. That's my theory, Luke. 

[00:55:06]Luke Storey:  Is this that type of response something that is common in your experience?

[00:55:11]Harry Paul:  No. No, it's not. I mean, it hasn't happened to a lot of people. You're unique. For sure, you're unique. We know that. 

[00:55:22]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Both times were really incredible. It's a funny feeling because it's a little bit unsettling as I sit here and kind of mimic it to get the memory. It's a little unsettling, but at the same time, it just feels like it needs to be done. And to stop it would be like, this isn't right. Like whatever's happening here needs to happen, I'm just going to let it.

[00:55:44]Harry Paul:  Well, you're just hooking into a rhythm, right? You're just hooking into an internal flow, and you can just open up to it.

[00:55:52]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Why and when did the heart opener of the sassafras, or MDA, or some people use MDMA, and these kind of things in conjunction with mushrooms as like a preliminary first dose of medicine? You have this sort of heart-opening, emotional availability, I guess, one could say, and then into more of the deeply psychedelic and quantum travel of the mushrooms. When did you discover that that was a useful combination? And is that something that's widespread or many people doing that?

[00:56:31]Harry Paul:  It's widespread, I think. That was the combination because in MDA is sassafras. It's a resin from the tree, and it's infused, but it's a heart opener. It opens the heart. MDMA was developed by psychiatrists to bring people out of deep depressions, and it works. It's a heart opener. And it gives a platform and foundation for the psilocybin to stand on. And then, you're really having a transcendent experience, which is beautiful. And then, the mushrooms have a protein that blend with your neurons in your brain.

[00:57:10] So, you're able to create new pathways, and you're able to create new channels and pathways through your being because most of us are top heavy. We live from the chin up, lost in thought. Our mind is a beautiful thing. It's an electrical current. But if we stay solely there, we feel separateness. It's dropping into our heart. And feeling love, love is maximal, the moment that we radiate love, and we feel oneness. We went through 2012 in the Mayan calendar that people thought, oh, we're going to have an experience here.

[00:57:47] There's something. It's the end of the world. Yes, it's the end of the world as we know it because we were having a planetary alignment that hadn't happened in the last 26,000 years. So, we were having a moment that was creating a portal for us as humanity to step through. Now, the portal, there was only room for one person. It was a doorway, Stargate, if you will, to step through. So, we either have to line up to go through it and march through it, or remember that we're all one and take a step for humanity to go through it. Yeah? 

[00:58:24]Luke Storey:  So, what do you see for the future of—you're mentioning MAPS a couple of times, but the future of more widespread acceptance and availability of this type of experiences, specifically with mushrooms or something like MDA? It seems like you have a few cities and states around that are starting to decriminalize, but there seems to be a lot of clinicians, and I don't think they have it on their website, but not healers or shaman, but like psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, et cetera, that are still kind of using MDMA on the download.

[00:59:00] A lot of people are using ketamine now, which is totally legal medically, and also, psilocybin. So, I don't know if there's a resurgence or if all the underground people just kind of went, ah, it's actually pretty safe to be out doing this work, but I mean, it seems in the medical and psychiatric community, the mental health industry, I guess you could say, is really starting to embrace this or at least becoming more public about it. Do you foresee this just becoming the norm?

[00:59:30]Harry Paul:  Well, there certainly is a movement towards it. It's appearing on the ballots of two to be voted on. And MAPS is doing amazing work. Tim Ferriss raised $10 million to assist. And the FDA has approved for MAPS to have clinical trials of people with PTSD, and come, and it's working. It's really working. Yes. I mean, my hope, my wish is that it's widespread, that these kinds of really holistic treatments are available for people who really are stuck, who are really wounded.

[01:00:09] And as a suggestion, I watched Hoarders one day as a suggestion. And if you watch Hoarders, those people are wounded emotionally. And it really shows in our culture, in our society how many people are wounded. I mean, I work with people with medicine, and I don't need any medicine to really work. But I had a guy come, and he's Eastern Indian, and he had an arranged marriage, and there are so many things. He didn't feel accepted. He's abused by his father.

[01:00:44] He's never been able to work through that. These things must be addressed so that we can live healthy because wounded people wound people. And the buck's got to stop here. It's got to stop. I think if Biden and Trump could have a medicine journey, they wouldn't speak to each other the way they speak to each other. It wouldn't be like a high school—I mean, it feels like it's below high school. I mean, on a presidential level to say, shut up, man, I mean, let's gain some-

[01:01:28]Luke Storey:  Come on, man. Funny stuff, man. It's the theater of our world right now.

[01:01:35]Harry Paul:  We're seeing how it's playing out on the world stage. 

[01:01:38]Luke Storey:  I mean, to a pinnacle. Human consciousness is just coming so much to the surface.

[01:01:43]Harry Paul:  We're seeing great contrast. We're seeing great contrast in the world, where we're either moving into deep fear and doubt. Look at the people they're just still quarantining and won't go out. And I mean, if we vibe high, we can repel bacteria and viruses, if we vibe high because it creates a field around us. Energy is everything. Everything's energy. I mean, Nikola Tesla said, if you want to understand the universe, pay attention to vibration, to frequency, the energy. We learned about Florence Nightingale, who was the nurse in school, in high school. You remember Florence Nightingale?

[01:02:21]Luke Storey:  I remember the name, but I don't got the story.

[01:02:23]Harry Paul:  So, she took care of all the soldiers that had typhoid fever because everybody was afraid to take care of them because they thought they'd get typhoid fever and die, right? She whistled a happy tune, and took care of all the soldiers, and she was fine. It's amazing what we repel when we vibe high. They are masters around the earth that can drink rat poison and they're fine. I don't recommend we drink rat poison.

[01:02:48]Luke Storey:  That's like the story, Ram Dass's guru, Neem Karoli Baba. He was curious about this, forget what he called it, God juice or something, about their liquid LSD. They're dosing LSD. And so, he talked him into eventually trying it. He took some and nothing happened. And they thought, we didn't give him enough, or it was a bad batch, or something, so they went again and gave him a big hero's dose. And again, no state change at all, because he's already there. So, it's interesting to think about the fact that these medicines help us access something. And it seems otherworldly, but it really is just how we innately are.

[01:03:31] It's just that it's obscured in order for us to come into the world. I mean, you can't like be a regular person, and be on medicine every day, and operate in the world. You can't function in 3D, I don't think, effectively if you're in that heavy experience, but we have these opportunities to lift the veil, get purview into other levels of truth and insight, and then come back in the 3D body, and go enact that vision or take the steps that we've been shown. But I think it is really interesting how certain beings do become immune to illnesses and even a big dose of LSD just through the power of consciousness. 

[01:04:11]Harry Paul:  We use such a small portion of what we're capable of, and the only reason to do the medicine is to achieve a state of beingness, and then you don't need the medicine because it is accessing a state of beingness and a beautiful one just to reveal things to us so that we're able to live happy, joyous, and free. We came here to live in joy, to enjoy our lives. We didn't come here to suffer. We came here to enjoy our lives. So, how do we do that? How do we really access that? 

[01:04:44]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I find your kind of hard line on making the choice about how you're going to perceive a situation or how are you going to react to it or not, a lot of people talk about that, but it's much more easier said and understood than done. And I've been around you enough to see, especially one situation, we're at your house and there was a little bit of a conflict between you and someone else, actually, not between you, someone was having a conflict within themselves. And I was watching that dynamic kind of going like, oh, man, is Harry going to be all fucked up? 

[01:05:23] This got a little awkward and tense there. And I was like, are you okay here? You're like, what? Yeah. Took care of it. I'm not going to be unhappy. Are you kidding me? And I was like, is he kidding? I'm like, oh, no, this dude's for real. He really just decided, I don't do drama. I'm love. I love the conflict. I love the person that was manifesting the conflict, and love myself enough to not go down that road, and become all neurotic about some little ultimately trivial exchange. And I thought, wow, that's really cool.

[01:05:57]Harry Paul:  Whoever has the most dominant vibration will win. YListen, if we're living vertically and we're living in what I call the three Ps, positivity, possibility, potentiality, right? We're living in the quantum field. We're living in the mind of God. Yeah? When we're living, trauma does not exist in that state. When we live in our divine mind, trauma does not exist. It can't. That's why it's so important to see through the illusion. That's all we came here. This is a schoolyard. 

[01:06:28] Planet Earth, it's a school yard. It's the game of life. And it's all how we play it. So, when we're clear, yeah, trauma doesn't exist. It's like, okay, it's happening. Alright. I'm seeing through the illusion, it's trauma. Now, the illusion can feel as powerful in its effect as is the truth, that love is real, if you let it pull you. And you see, I like to give a visual, because in our divine mind, there's one compartment, Luke. We're either in our flow state, in the flow of love, or we're not.

[01:07:05] We can't be in our divine mind, in our insane mind at the same time. So, when we're in our divine mind, there are firewalls that go up. We're just like computers. So, there are firewalls that go up. So, the insane mind is insidious. It's cunning. It's tireless. It has attack bots, gains evidence. It's not here just to inconvenience us. It wants us to suffer. So, it's a good gauge that if we're suffering, our insane mind is engaged.

[01:07:30] So, there are firewalls that go up when we're in our divine mind, but we have free will, so we can venture over there if we want to, yeah, to be insane, to be in the drama. And a lot of us are addicted to the drama, Luke. And with couples, I work with a lot of couples. And couples get addicted to being connected in the drama rather than connected in the love. It's very simple, but it plays out in epic, complicated ways.

[01:07:59]Luke Storey:  Oh, I know.

[01:08:02]Harry Paul:  It's like the War of the Roses sometimes. But drama doesn't exist if you're really being in the world. Drama doesn't exist. It's like, okay, it's happening. Where do I put my focus? Does that resonate?

[01:08:13]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, again, like I get the concept and I've made some headway there, but I think it's interesting when I observe someone in a situation in which I would picture myself probably caving to the drama and at least, if nothing else, if not attacking and feeling a sense of guilt or shoulda, coulda, woulda, did I fuck this up? Was it my fault? Like I would probably more go inward with the attack than I would generally be on the attack for the other. But that was instrumental, to see that little situation. And it was a great reminder of embodiment, of actually not just saying those words, but having the practice to be able to do it.

[01:08:56]Harry Paul:  Well, if we're not walking our talk, what are we doing? We must develop that internal attitude, muscularity to stay, to stay and to walk our talk. 

[01:09:07]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Otherwise, why are you in a body? What are you doing? One thing I'm curious about, we participated in a Bufo alvarius toad poison smoking DMT ceremony together as participants and I don't want to even get into explaining mine, because it's beyond explanation, words just wouldn't do it justice. But I just remember, I laid down and all this crazy shit happened. And I don't know if I could have moved, but I did not want to move.

[01:09:45] I mean, I was just floored by the intensity of that situation. And then, when your turn came, you were doing like the wave, you were on the ground, just head to toe, your body was just moving in this ecstatic wave for like 15 minutes. And I remember sitting there over you, holding space, praying, and I just thought, what is going on inside him right now? Like what was that experience like for you because I never did ask you?

[01:10:13]Harry Paul:  It was pretty extraordinary. I felt like there was just a wave of energy inside of me, and I felt like my hands went down to the earth, and I felt like I was just becoming one with Mother Earth, and just the ecstasy that I was feeling was making love to the universe. It was really blissful for me, just becoming one with everything. And that oneness, it just felt like everything was like a wave. And I was feeling like making love to the universe. It was pretty extraordinary. I know it's probably not an easy thing to put into words.

[01:10:59]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's not, but since I was there and I never got the chance to ask you that. But also, I think it's indicative of the fact that there's been a lot of clearing done through all of the work you've done in service and all the work you've done in service to yourself. So, a lot of accounts that I hear about DMT experiences, they're kind of too intense for people and people get kind of blown out. And it was just like, they thought they were dead and all of that kind of stuff. 

[01:11:27] But mine was beautiful, but there was some pretty deep grief and things that came up, that I thought were like a deep, deep well I had never had access to, past life, pain, and celebrating, and mourning deaths that I had had before, and really deep stuff. But there's no sense of resistance because I know when I'm getting into the gold like that, it's like, oh, yeah, here we go, this is the real shit. This isn't like, maybe I'll quit biting my fingernails. No, this is like karmic shifts and chains broken.

[01:12:03] But a lot of people have that resistance. I think perhaps, they come into a situation like that cold with the really powerful medicine like that. And a lot of the heavy lifting hasn't been done in the 3D realm just over the years. And it's just like [making sound] too much. So, I sensed watching you, I was like, wow, he's really clear. There's no resistance to the intensity of the experience. So, yeah, I just wanted to reflect that to you and just give you some appreciation for having me bear witness to a beautiful surrender moment and a really meaningful clearing. Yeah.

[01:12:37]Harry Paul:  Well, here's what means the most to me. People talk about living in 3D, and 5D, and 7D, and 11D, and Big D, and little D, and all Ds, we're multidimensional beings. We're multidimensional beings. We must be able to be fully expressed in this dimension, to be fully activated, to live in all dimensions. Yeah? And to be able to access. Some people live in the ethers and I work with lots of fairies. Fairies are amazing. They sprinkle stardust in people's lives. They're like Tinkerbelle, right? But fairies get to be really grounded. We all get to be grounded.

[01:13:17] I work with famous psychics and they can fly all over the place. They are gifted and they have information. They can gather information. But then, it's like, okay, how can I live my life? We came here to enjoy our lives. We came here to live fully, embodied fully, expressed. And it's important and beneficial for me to be able to access all dimensions and be a multidimensional being like we are. We're multidimensional beings and we get to live it here. That's why the plant medicine is so good, and so valuable, and to help people clean and clear. That's my whole thing every morning.

[01:13:58] I have a spiritual practice to get clean, get clear, and get connected. And then, we can walk through life. And then, we can walk through life, accessing all of us. But if we live from the chin up, we're top-heavy. And the mind is such a beautiful thing, but we can't just use just our mind. We get to incorporate our heart, connect, and really use that sacral chakra is balance, yin and yang energy, balance of yin and yang. And then, root chakra. It's our sexuality, sensuality, creativity, and giving ourselves a platform and a foundation in this dimension on Planet Earth to really be able to function at our highest level.

[01:14:40] That's what's meaningful. That's what means the most to me, is how do we really live here, and really be functioning, and be okay? We get to allow somebody to stand in front of us, and have a strong emotion, and not make it mean anything. It's oaky. That's like witnessing. Witnessing is powerful in our lives. To be able to just witness doesn't mean anything, has nothing to do with us unless we take it on. But that's what happens because we're empaths usually. I know you're an empath.

[01:15:11]Luke Storey:  I've had to work on that a lot. That co-dependency piece slips in there, too, from different childhood experiences, where I've found it difficult to maintain my emotional autonomy. And so, if someone that I care about or I'm close to is feeling strong emotions of any type, it's like they grab a hold of me and I'm enveloped in that experience with them without being able to witness it like I am with my own experience on a good day. So, that's a really good key point there, and that distinction of also witnessing other in their experience, and allowing them to have that, and not feeling obligated to make it yours.

[01:15:51]Harry Paul:  Yeah, it's one of the most powerful things we can do. Even to be able to just stay—the center of the universe is here. We're here. We're not out here. This is searching for ourselves where we're not. So, when we can stay here, we can track our internal environment, then we can read our external environment, but we stay here. Most of us that are empaths or we're clairsentient, we run our energy through another person and back to us or through the universe and back to us, and then we're toxic.

[01:16:21] And then, we're like [making sound] and then we don't understand what's going on. We must keep our energy here, track our internal environment, stay here, and then read our external. But witness, don't take it on. Look, a lot of people come to me. They're very unhappy, Luke, about the state of the affairs of the world, and rightly so. We're the Titanic headed for the iceberg if we don't turn it around. Let's be real. Yeah? But the thing is we must live in the world rather than not the world. 

[01:16:49] If we're feeling bad, we have two eyes that look outward. We have two hands that look outward. Most of us, we're living out here, but we're here. We can live in the world. Look, we must make the best of what the situation that we have in hand. We can live in the world. There's always been things in the world that are going on. There's always been chaos. There always will be. We live in a world of duality. So, we get to stay here, and stay really anchored, and our practice gets to be like, stay present, stay connected, stay here, rather than run our energy through someone else and back to us.

[01:17:23] Just witness and we can witness. Now, when we vibe high, when we radiate, and broadcast love because we're the most powerful thing in the universe, when we radiate love, it's maximal. So, we get to go in, and then go out. Yeah? And when we stay here, we affect the world the most. We're the most effectual to be able to just radiate and broadcast, no matter what life offers or who stands in front of us, that we can just stay. It's the place that we get to live that and be okay, because then we're affecting things.

[01:18:01]Luke Storey:  Yes, sir, I do.

[01:18:03]Harry Paul:  You do. You do it, Luke.

[01:18:05]Luke Storey:  Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Well, man, I think our Belcampo meal is here. I could go on and on as listeners know of my four-hour shows, but I think that's actually a really sweet spot to end on, is that embodiment and just recognizing each of our own power. And it sounds cliche, but it really is the way it works, and that level of consciousness of love is inherently so much more powerful than that of grief, and shame, anguish, and all those things that we experience on the lower levels.

[01:18:39] It just really does always trump the lower levels of consciousness when we can radiate that within ourselves. And that's when you walk into a room, and there was supposed to be drama, and you walk in, and you're on a good day, and you're embodying that, and all of a sudden [making sounds] everything gets diffused, and you're just like, whoa, how did that happen?

[01:18:59]Harry Paul:  Do you remember Mr. Magoo? Just one quick story. Do you remember Mr. Magoo?

[01:19:03]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[01:19:03]Harry Paul:  So, he was blind, Mr. Magoo, those of you who don't remember Mr. Magoo. But Mr. Magoo was blind. 

[01:19:07]Luke Storey:  I'm probably just old enough to remember Mr. Magoo.

[01:19:09]Harry Paul:  Yeah, you're probably just old enough. And so, Mr. Magoo was this wonderful cartoon character, and he was blind, and he went through life like this, feeling like this. And the bad guy showed up in the black cars, in the black suits, and they were coming after him, and he couldn't see, so he had such a vibration that he just put his arms around them and incorporate them in his vibration.

[01:19:30] And soon enough, they forgot all about what they were doing to come and get him. And he led them on his journey. That's why I say, whoever has the most dominant vibration will win. And so, often, we let people with the dark, the lowest common denominator in the room dominated, because we magnetized to negativity rather than magnetized to the positive. When we really can learn it, it's so beautiful to utilize it in life.

[01:20:02]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's a super power, dude.

[01:20:06]Harry Paul:  Confidence is one of the secrets to life. And I always say, you know the secret to life? Feel good. Only two ways to feel, good and gooder. So, feel good and the universe knows what to do. The universe knows what to do. If you feel bad, you're repelling. It's just repelling. So, get ourselves in a place of feeling good. 

[01:20:32]Luke Storey:  Beautiful.

[01:20:33]Harry Paul:  Thank you, Luke.

[01:20:34]Luke Storey:  Thank you. Thank you. You've really touched my life and I'm so happy to call you a friend and trusted advisor. And yeah, I'm really glad we made the opportunity to do this and I can't wait to continue the journey with you. It's inspiring and always super fun. If we're not having fun, why are we doing it?

[01:20:55]Harry Paul:  If life isn't fun, it isn't life, right?

[01:20:57]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[01:20:59]Harry Paul:  Well, we have fun.

[01:21:00]Luke Storey:  Yeah, for sure. Before we close out, I got one last question for you. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work? 

[01:21:11]Harry Paul:  The Course in Miracles has been really influential in my life. I started it in the '80s and I practiced it the whole time. It's been so beneficial to me, amazing. I mean, I've studied with Eastern with yogis, in Eastern philosophy, I really am, but there's been so many teachings that are so beneficial. I studied shamanism, Sufism, Buddhism. I studied so many different things, Kabbalah. There's such amazing teachings. The Course in Miracles has really been dominant in my life, because if you can live—and the Course in Miracles talks about everything and talks about nothing. It's amazing. So, if you can really embody it, it's a beautiful thing. I think it's touched my life the most.

[01:22:13]Luke Storey:  Actually, I didn't know that about you. I'm a peripheral fan, and sometimes, reader, and various times, have made it to like day seven of doing the 365-day thing, but the one thing I always remember from A Course in Miracles is, if you find yourself in conflict or strife, ask yourself the question, would you rather be right or happy? Right? And that one, that has saved so much drama and interpersonal relationships. So, once you lose the addiction to being right in that temporary juice of satisfaction that you get off it, you're willing to surrender that, then you just let everyone else be right and you'll be happy.

[01:22:56]Harry Paul:  Yeah, the Course in Miracles says, it says, it's our role to tell another person that they're right, even if they're wrong, because once you tell a person that they're right, it just takes everything, all the heat out of the situation. And it says the only thing that's ever missing in any situation is what we're not giving, and that's a big one in life. I think a teacher who really affected me was David Hawkins and I saw him live. 

[01:23:23]Luke Storey:  Oh, my God. Yeah, you did?

[01:23:24]Harry Paul:  Yeah.

[01:23:25]Luke Storey:  I don't know you saw Hawkins. Me too. I have a show coming out, I think, in two weeks all about the map of consciousness and his teachings, yeah.

[01:23:34]Harry Paul:  When I saw him, he told a whole elaborate story, and he said, the only place we're ever going to have a problem is inside of you. Because if you don't have a problem, guess what, there's no problem. We can choose, I don't have a problem. You know the first act of war, right? Defense. So, usually, somebody has a problem in front of us, and then we make it real, and then we become defensive, and then we burn some shit down if we just stay. It's beautiful. Another person is Dr. Joe Dispenza. I think he's great. I've been to his master class. Amazing. 

[01:24:19]Luke Storey:  Cool, huh? 

[01:24:20]Harry Paul:  Amazing. So cool.

[01:24:22]Luke Storey:  Pretty medicine journeylike.

[01:24:24]Harry Paul:  Oh, completely.

[01:24:25]Luke Storey:  Those meditations, man, like even. I think, a couple of the nights when I went to the one in Palm Springs, I thought, man, this meditation is really deep, but on a microdose, a little drop of acid or psilocybin went in there, and it didn't really have an impact. It was so deep and powerful already. I realized, like, yeah, this is a different kind of thing. He found a way into the quantum that doesn't require you to do anything else to yourself other than the breathing practices and stuff like that. So, yeah, a really profound work. I agree. Well, we have a lot in common. We like a lot of the same jams. Alright, man. Let's call it. Last thing is any websites, social media links, anything like that you want to shout out for people that want to look you up? 

[01:25:11]Harry Paul:  Harrythehealer.net. 

[01:25:12]Luke Storey:  Easy, breezy. 

[01:25:13]Harry Paul:  Easy, breezy. Simple website.

[01:25:15]Luke Storey:  Cool. Alright, dude. Well, great to see you. Let's go eat some food.

[01:25:19]Harry Paul:  Let's do it.

[01:25:20]Luke Storey:  Alright.

[01:25:20]Harry Paul:  Okay.

[01:25:33]

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