[00:00:00] Luke: What's the most money you ever lost in a moment?

[00:00:07] Oto: 1.1 million. And I came out of the room and fell into the ground kicking and screaming like a child when that happened. It was 2017 maybe, or 2018.

[00:00:24] Luke: Was that in something crypto-related?

[00:00:26] Oto: Yeah. Yeah. It was a leveraged trade that went into the wrong direction. And so you get liquidated. That's the worst kind of trading you want to do, is leverage trade, especially if you're not grounded in your own self, because the emotions can play a part in that. And I wasn't, but I was willing to risk. But that was an experience too.

[00:00:51] Luke: That's a good one. I wonder how different that experience would've been for you, would be for someone if that 1.1 million was a result of 20 years of sweat equity in building a brand or a company and it just evaporates, or you put everything you have into a piece of real estate and it burns down or whatever.

[00:01:17] It feels like it would be easier if you're in the crypto-- you make a bunch. You lose a bunch. You maybe are a little bit desensitized to that because I try and put myself in your position with my whole net worth just evaporated with one transaction. That would probably be much more devastating if I just got it and now it's gone. Do you think it was any easier because you're used to the volatility of that space?

[00:01:46] Oto: Yes. 100%. Actually, I would say it's because of that experience that I realized the importance of your relationship to the energy of exchange, this thing that we're doing every day.

[00:01:59] But yes, to your point, the longer you spend on something and put in sweat equity, I think you're going to feel it if you lose it a lot easier than what I went through, which was like-- at that point, that 1 million that I lost, I had 17 million. So I had a very large portfolio. It was devastating to lose that, but I got over it pretty quickly, a couple of days maybe.

[00:02:24] Luke: If I had another 16 sitting there, I'd be like, "Ah, let's give one to charity just to even the score here. That's funny because if I think about sitting on a net worth of $17 million, it would take me approximately 30 seconds to retire.

[00:02:45] Go treat all my friends to trips and live my best life. I buy each homie a house in Costa Rica or wherever, and we just build little compounds, and we just hang out and meditate together and do fun stuff. I think that's one thing that's weird to me about exceedingly wealthy people. There's just never enough.

[00:03:10] It's like someone makes 100 million on a deal. Okay, we got to get 200. I don't know. Maybe because I've never been there, I don't know. But I feel like at a certain point I'd be like, "I'm good." If my basic needs are met, I'm out. I feel like I would not have the need to keep pushing and pushing. What are you going to even do with it?

[00:03:30] Oto: I think the difference there is how quickly you obtain that wealth. That goes back to that first question. I think because I didn't have that amount of money ever in my life that when it all of a sudden landed on my lap, you would think that I would go, "Okay, I'm done. I'm out. Like, I'm good for the rest of my life."

[00:03:49] But no, it was like my current relationship to it had to be fully expressed at that point. And so the truth is that when I obtained that very quickly and for six to 12 months-- it might've been closer to 12 months, but definitely six months-- I was spending 50 to $100,000 a day.

[00:04:11] Not even kidding you. Because the money kept coming in. The portfolio value was always rising. And I kept spending and I'm like, "I spend 50 and I make 300." It was like that. It was weird.

[00:04:25] Luke: What would you spend money on?

[00:04:28] Oto: Mostly traveling. You know the Montages, the Montage resort?

[00:04:32] Luke: Hotels?

[00:04:33] Oto: Yeah, the hotels.

[00:04:33] Luke: Yeah.

[00:04:34] Oto: There's six of them. We went to five. They're expensive. Just staying at hotels, buying a lot of biohacking stuff. For two years we were going to-- that's where I met you the first time, was at a biohacking event. We bought everything, like $17,000 Samina bed.

[00:04:57] So many things. My house is similar to yours in that sense. Bought my mom a car. I just did things that were just this expression of that current relationship, which now I know it's this giving, almost martyrdom-type relationship with it, where I was just like giving it away for free.

[00:05:20] Luke: I wish I would've been closer to you. I think we'd met.

[00:05:25] Oto: The people at the resorts lobbed me because I would come in with thousands of dollars in 20s and just giving it away.

[00:05:34] Luke: I think about that sometimes. I don't have that many friends that are uber wealthy, but I think about that sometimes from both sides, if I was a billionaire, let's say. To me, the most fun thing would just be hooking all the homies up. Not only people in need and philanthropy, but just my inner circle. People that are struggling.

[00:05:59] So if I was in that position and you were a friend of mine and you're like, "Man, I'm in a tough spot. I could really use 200 grand right now." I'd just like, "Here, man." You know what I mean? So I think sometimes of my friends that could afford to help me out in a meaningful way, and it would make no difference in their lifestyle at all, I would never ask, you know what I mean?

[00:06:17] But I think sometimes I go, "Man, I'd be sick if homeboy was just like, here, dude. Here's a million just to tide you over so you can go do that project or whatever." Obviously, you're never going to ask, but you just think, God, to some people it would be so meaningful in your life, and it would not leave a dent whatsoever in their life.

[00:06:38] Oto: Yeah. Again, I think it goes back to how quickly did you obtain it? If it was a slow process, I can see that being a harder thing to do, to just give away the money. Because, man, it took me 15 years to get here. Why would I just give it to somebody that isn't working for it?

[00:06:56] So I can see that mindset. And I also see my relationship with it, with what I did, which was like, I didn't make it that-- it wasn't that hard. I made it so quickly. And so for me to give it away was so easy because I was like, "I can just make some more. I can just pull in some more."

[00:07:16] Now I look back and I see the duality of that, the extremes of that. And what I've come to understand and learn now is that money does not solve your problems. We've heard that probably over and over. What I believe money does is it gives you the space to fully express your current relationship to it.

[00:07:34] So it'll exaggerate, it'll magnify that current relationship, whatever it is. Once it's fully expressed, then I think that's when you can ground into like, okay, what do I want to do with it now? Then it's a luck thing. Because what happened to me, I leaned too hard on that. I didn't manage risk well.

[00:07:55] And so that 17 million turned into four after four or five years because of the COVID thing that happened in 2020. But now I know what I can do. Now I'm like, "All right, I lost millions, but now I know that I can make it up and then some." Because now I'm grounded in that relationship.

[00:08:15] Luke: You have proof of concept.

[00:08:18] Oto: You can't deny experience.

[00:08:19] Luke: Yeah, totally. I noticed something. I forgot about this until this moment. This is going back, I don't know, 20, 25 years. I lived in LA. There's a lot of unhoused people there, so everywhere you go, someone's asking you for money.

[00:08:38] And at a time I felt like, if I give this guy two bucks or five bucks, then I don't have it. You know what I mean? So every once in a while, maybe I'd give a little bit. And then one of my teachers noticed that and was making fun of me for being a dick, and just said, "Every time someone asks you for money, you automatically just give them whatever you have, and even way more than you're comfortable with."

[00:09:11] "Oh, I'm going to try it." So I was like, "Maybe five bucks was the stretch." I go, "What if I give this guy a 20?" That doesn't feel right, and I just do it. Maybe I give him 100. And I didn't have very much money at the time. But when I started doing that, I started making more money than I'd ever made in my life.

[00:09:30] Oto: Oh, I'm so happy you just said that.

[00:09:32] Luke: And I noticed that. Well, I'm doing the same shit. I'm working just as hard, I'm in the same career. What's the difference here? What's happening? And this is where I'm going to lead with this because I know this is an area that you teach, is my clinging was actually stopping it, and my selfishness and that like survival mode that I was in was keeping me in this energy of surviving with what I had.

[00:09:59] And then I expanded my capacity to give. And also there's compassion and love behind that. I really want to help someone out. That's like, if I give someone 100-dollar bill on the side of the freeway that's trying to wash my windows or whatever, it got to the point where I just know I'm not losing $100.

[00:10:18] I probably just gained $1,000 in the energy of reciprocity from doing that. It's more symbolic than it is even a transaction or a gain or a loss. It's just opening up a river of possibility. And that's how I started to see that. And now I live in the country. So I don't run into people asking me for money, but I kind of miss it.

[00:10:44] It feels really good. You watch someone's eyes light up when you don't just ignore them or treat them like a piece of garbage, and you really acknowledge them and go, "Man, I understand, dude. Here. Maybe this will help you out."

[00:10:55] It's such a great feeling, to give. So what's your current relationship with exchange and reciprocity? Let's go full metaphysical with it and then we'll get back to crypto and some of these other more tangible ideas.

[00:11:09] Oto: Yeah. Man, you just hit the nail on the head with that because the main topic really that I try to instill in the students, first of all, it's this question of what type of capitalism are we dealing with? So I believe right now we're in wartime capitalism. And the commerce that we're dealing with and the way that we interact with each other in transaction is wartime tactics.

[00:11:35] Literally, the art of war. Go pick up the Art of War book. There's all your tactics. And then what do we do? We take those and then we're putting it into all relationships, into our intimate relationships, with our parents, family, friends. So it's about this type of mindset, this divisive wartime mindset. And I'm trying to recreate that with my students to peacetime. It's like, what does peacetime capitalism look like?

[00:11:59] So one of the things we do in our academy is embodiment challenges. We allow the students, or we give a list of challenges that you do on a weekly basis to help you recreate that relationship and feel the energy shift. And one of the analogies that we use, introduction to these challenges is the hose analogy, a garden hose. I feel that the divisive capitalism mindset--

[00:12:26] Luke: Thanks for clarifying that terminology, because I thought you were being disparaging.

[00:12:32] Oto: The divisive capitalism wartime mindset, it's extraction. It's the siphoning. It's the parasite. Where the peacetime capitalism is like nature. It's toroidal. So it's regenerative. It builds on itself. It's republic. It's not hierarchical. It's republic. It's not like a pyramid. It's a toroidal. So I believe, if we want to shift to peacetime capitalism, we have to let go of that type of mindset and that extraction path and strategy.

[00:13:07] We have to go into more toroidal. And what that means, I believe, is to be a node, to be a flow of abundance. So back to the analogy of the garden hose, everybody should be a garden hose, where the water is just flowing through you and going to things that are going to bring you more joy, love, and connection.

[00:13:27] The garden hose we use to water plants, what is that doing? That's giving us more love, more connection. We're connecting to nature. So thinking in those terms. Most people, because of the wartime capitalism, they're cranking the hose. They got the hose on a crank. And what happens when you do that?

[00:13:44] It doesn't stop the flow, but it trickles. A little bit of water here and there. And then that facilitates the scarcity mindset that perpetuates it. Because in any little bit that comes out of that hose, you're like, it's mine, mine, mine. I got to save this for later because I don't know when the next drop is going to come out.

[00:14:01] We have to let go of the hose. How do we let go of the hose? Like I said, you have to allow the flow of the energy to things that are going to bring you the energy of exchange. Not money, but the actual energy that that medium uses to move around. If we deposit into that account, then the money will flow. Then the money will come, if you allow that to flow to the things that are going to bring you love, joy, and connection.

[00:14:30] Luke: Do you think there is sometimes a downside to keeping that hose open and turning the faucet on full blast, meaning a disregard for spending? And I'm asking this because someone I know really well does this, a guy named Luke. I've noticed a trend in my life where I think, not year over year-- some years are better than others-- but generally speaking, I'm on a upward trajectory of revenue.

[00:15:05] If you would've told me 20 years ago that I make the money I make today, I would've been like, "Damn, you're going to be rich." You know what I mean? Because I was living so hand to mouth then. But I have barely discernible more money in savings, investments, and so on than I ever did.

[00:15:22] In other words, my spend always just chases, if not exceeds my earn. So it's like I always feel broke no matter what level I am because if there's more abundance there, I'm just like, "Oh, sick. Let's take a trip. Let's buy someone expensive gift." You see what I'm saying? It's like I'm just going to spend up to that threshold, therefore never probably feel like, okay, cool. I got some cushion here, some breathing room.

[00:15:50] There's always like, well, if I don't keep working, things are going to dry up. So my version of like, yeah, open the hose. It's just all easy come, easy go, more's just going to come, spend it, whatever. You're just making room for more. It has a shadow side to it. What would you say about that for people that swing in the other direction where they have almost no respect for money in the sense of managing it well and being a good steward of resources?

[00:16:19] Oto: You said it. It's respect. I think most people disrespect it because they haven't even figured out what their current relationship is. And I think most are stuck in the cycle because they haven't made it quick to be able to fully express it. You made it slowly, so you're expressing it when you can. And it's like you have a pressure cooker and you're just like, it's not all coming out.

[00:16:42] You're just laying it out little by little. So that's where I was in for a while in the beginning when I made a lot of money. I was leaking the energy everywhere, like the entrepreneurial way. You want to try things. You want to risk a little bit so that you can see what works and what doesn't.

[00:16:59] So there is some learning that you do through pain. So I normalized that for a long time, and then I had to pull back because I became aware that I was like, like you said, I'm not making as much as I'm spending right now. There's a little difference there, and I'm having to take from my crypto. And I realize this is not sustainable.

[00:17:20] So yeah, I think, again, it goes back to how did you make that money will create that relationship. And then in your journey, you're trying to become aware of everything. So maybe there hasn't been enough space for that to be fully expressed. And you're aware of it, so then you do the things that you think are the right ways. But then it's not the full thing. It's just little bits and pieces of it.

[00:17:47] Luke: Do you think some people have a subconscious block around saving, wherein it's like you better just spend it because at least then you're exchanging value for it versus if it's just sitting somewhere. It seems like it's maybe vulnerable, especially because the way we express money is just nebulous, and there is no money. It's all fake everything.

[00:18:20] So it's like the volatility of the financial world feels like nothing's real, even if you squirrel some away in what-- it depends, I guess, what security you're holding value in. But I think for myself, it's like, I don't want to just sit in somewhere because it feels like something could happen to it. So I'll just better get rid of it all. You know what I mean? That kind of thing.

[00:18:46] Oto: I feel like in the last 15, 20 years, that mindset has definitely shifted. Maybe less. Maybe 10 to 15 years of saving because inflation. Just the inflation rate alone is an average of 10% a year right now and accelerating. Actually, this next two years is supposed to go up to 30%, with the $9 trillion.

[00:19:08] Luke: Really?

[00:19:08] Oto: Yeah. $9 trillion promised to be pumped out in the next two years.

[00:19:11] Luke: Just to interject real quick, in real life terms, I put a thousand dollars in the bank right now. In one year, that's $900. Is that how that works?

[00:19:25] Oto: It used to be. Now it's going to be 20 or 30%. So it'll be 7 to $800 in purchasing power, the weight of it. So saving is not a good idea anymore, at least not in the traditional way, like saving in the bank, in the way--

[00:19:42] Luke: Getting your little 2%, whatever.

[00:19:45] Oto: We can talk about that for hours and how that system works and what they're doing with that deposit. So recently smart money has been moving towards hard assets, assets that are limited, finite, commodities, real estate, definitely crypto, in a lot of ways. Especially this year because they just regulated stablecoins. Or they just officiated a regulatory path if you want to create your own stablecoin.

[00:20:18] And that's a whole other conversation too, like, what does it mean to have a stablecoin, hold a stablecoin compared to fiat in the bank? Isn't it just the same thing one-to-one? No, different contracts. This is a negotiable instrument. That's a whole contract in of itself. And then this is a protocol.

[00:20:34] It's a protocol based contract, a smart contract. Has different policies, different parameters. And then every stablecoin that is created is different too. So that's the move that's happening right now, is the smart money. The global GDP right now is $143 trillion, growing at a steady 10%.

[00:20:57] The US currency is supposed to go up 20 to 30% in the next couple of years. So you think about hard assets as a vacuum right now. It's a massive vacuum for $143 trillion in fiat circulation. We call it the great redistribution of wealth right now.

[00:21:19] Luke: Do you foresee that we're in or entering into a total financial reset, like a collapse of the US dollar and creation of another form of currency, mainstream currency?

[00:21:34] Oto: I actually do because, and I'm basing this on history-- I'm Brazilian. I was born in Brazil. Came here when I was seven years old.

[00:21:45] Luke: Where in Brazil?

[00:21:46] Oto: Sao Paulo.

[00:21:36] Luke: Oh, cool.

[00:21:47] Oto: Yeah, the big city.

[00:21:48] Luke: Yeah, it is.

[00:21:49] Oto: Yeah. One of the big reasons why we moved to the US was my dad was an auditor at banks, and he would do forensic accounting. So he'd go to the banks and go through the papers and through the numbers to make sure everything's good to go.

[00:22:09] He started hearing rumors in the early '90s of something happening in the banking system where the inflation rate started to increase. And then I remember my dad told me that in '92, I think, they started to create credit cards at 50% APR. And that's what they still have today. If you want to get a credit card in Brazil, it's 40 to 50% APR.

[00:22:33] Luke: Whoa.

[00:22:35] Oto: So in 1993, I believe, '92, '93, they did a bail-in. Do you know what a bail-in is?

[00:22:46] Luke: Mm-mm.

[00:22:46] Oto: Oh, they just passed it here in the US last year to allow banks to do bail-ins. So a bail-out is when the government comes and bails out the bank. They pull from, I forgot what it's called. It's a reserve of money for banks for that reason. Actually, recently we've had billions of dollars pumped out through that little system. I forgot what it's called. I forgot where I was going. Oh my gosh.

[00:23:15] Luke: The Brazil APR.

[00:23:16] Oto: Yeah. So bail-outs, government bails out the bank. Bail-in is where the government approves the bank to take everybody's deposit as collateral for their issue. So that happened in Brazil. That happened a lot of countries actually. I think Venezuela was another one that was more recent.

[00:23:39] But it happened in Brazil. Basically, if you have over $200,000, it's gone. You only get to keep whatever's below that. So all these millionaires in the streets overnight because they just took all the money.

[00:23:53] Oto: Whoa.

[00:23:54] Luke: So this is the thing. I forgot the name of the act or the bill that passed last year. Something dod, I believe. But that approves the bail-in offer of the bail-in process for the US. So I'm seeing similar things happening now. And then, by the way, right after that happened, that bail-in or bail-out, or bail in, within a year or two, it went into hyperinflation. The Brazilian currency was called Reis, R-E-I-S. And then they had to recreate the currency because it hyperinflated, and then they changed it to Reals, R-E-A-L-S.

[00:24:32] Luke: Wow, dude.

[00:24:34] Oto: It feels similar to what's happening here in the US. And what's the new currency? CBDCs. That's what they want to replace it with.

[00:24:41] Luke: What do you think about that idea?

[00:24:45] Oto: Terrible.

[00:24:46] Luke: Is it worse than the fiat that we have?

[00:24:50] Oto: Yeah. We're in this movement, and people are like, they're trying to make it all digital. They're going to go all full digital. And I'm like, "It is digital, bro. We are there." It is all digital. It's a very small percentage of actual physical cash circulating.

[00:25:08] What's happening now is that they're taking a step further and programming the currency to the cent. So prior to this blockchain shift to CBDCs, the current currency, when you remove it from one bank's policies, you can go to another bank and have different policies for that specific bank with the same currency.

[00:25:30] So that allows options. And like a free market. If you use CBDCs, it doesn't matter what bank you go to. You can go to any bank in the world. It's programmed into the cent. So if they decide that you shouldn't be buying certain things, and they give you a list of approved locations to buy with, they can do that. They will do that.

[00:25:52] Luke: Damn.

[00:25:53] Oto: Yeah. So the control aspect of it will go 100 times x.

[00:25:58] Luke: Wow. And then if you have a digital ID and a social credit score and you're a guy with a podcast that rags on vaccines, you got problems.

[00:26:08] Oto: I think you're safe actually. I think we're safe. Because I have this feeling that right now they are creating digital versions of ourselves. So they're collecting all this data to create a digital version that is us, but just through the data.

[00:26:26] And so if they're creating a digital version of ourselves that they can control, we should be doing the same. We should be digitizing our own reputation online through social media, through these things. Because then anything that happens that they control, we'll take that article, and we'll do a video about it and go like, "No, this is the truth."

[00:26:45] And then you got two sides. People trust you, and they're going to believe you because you created that relationship and that trust. So I think right now everyone should be digitizing their reputation because of that exact reason.

[00:26:59] Luke: Good point. God, there's so many directions I want to go because you, like me, have gotten really interested in the law space in the past couple years. So there's all kinds of shit I want to do there. But for the interest of the listener, a topic that I have not covered at all is crypto.

[00:27:20] I know that's an area of expertise you would be the person in the world for sure that I know that knows the most about it. So I'm going to approach the topic as a complete dance because I don't understand what it is, how it works, blockchain, Bitcoin. I'm totally lost.

[00:27:40] All I know is around 2017 or whenever Bitcoin was, I think it was $7,800. I started a few of my homies. They were techie. We were starting to talk about Bitcoin and getting all obsessed. And I had no idea what it was, but I was like, "I don't know." I had a little bit of cash on hand that I could afford to lose. And so I asked a couple homies, I'm like, "Should I buy one of these Bitcoin things?"

[00:28:06] They're like, "Yeah, buy 10." I was like, "That's $80,000 or whatever." I'm like, "I don't know about that. I don't even know what this is." But I bought one and I just sat on it and still have the one Bitcoin. And I'm like, "Of course now, hindsight, I'm like, oh my God, I should have listened and bought 10." You know what I'm saying?

[00:28:25] Maybe I could retire, or at least soon. So I know nothing about it other than just this internal ethos that I do not touch it. I don't know why. I don't spend it, even though I've been broke many times and like, oh my God, I could use a little boost out of that account. I just don't touch it.

[00:28:45] And I buy more here and there, a little auto buy. Just set it and forget it kind of thing. But I don't know how it works. I got my treasure thing and just fucking totally sketched out, trying to move it from Coinbase into the thing where I have it in my safe in my house.

[00:29:04] I don't even know what that means. What am I even doing? I have no idea. It just feels less vulnerable than, I don't know, if Coinbase gets nuked or hacked. Then my shit's gone. And I think the way the treasure hardware-- is that what you call it, hard wallet? I think I have it, but I totally don't even know if that's true.

[00:29:24] I know you have to put all these goddamn codes in the computer when you plug in your little treasure. There's this list of 40 words, and I have copies of it all over that are really easy to find for anyone who wants to find them. So yeah, just ground zero. I guess the first question would be, how did you first get into crypto before even say what it is?

[00:29:44] There's going to be listeners who are very sophisticated at this and many that are like me that have no clue but want to learn. So what was the first time you heard the word cryptocurrency, and what attracted you to the concept to begin with?

[00:29:58] Oto: Oh yeah. I can definitely give you that little journey. So I was an accountant for 11 years and worked in an accounting office-- was our family business. So I started working when I was 15 years old, preparing tax returns. And around close to the end, I'd say around my ninth or 10th year, so this was like 2000-- I want to say 2012, ‘13. It was actually 2012, beginning of 2012.

[00:30:25] I was in my office and the IT guy in our office came and said, "Hey, did you hear about Bitcoin?" Never heard about it. First time I ever heard that word. I'm like, "No. What are you talking about?" And then he handed me the white paper. He printed it out, 10 pages. Printed it out, put it on my desk, and I read through it.

[00:30:43] It took me 10 minutes to read through it. Blew my mind. The thing was written in a way that you had to have some accounting-- like you have to know a little bit on math and that part of it to really comprehend what was happening there. And so I did have that, and when I read it, it clicked immediately. I just knew what the potential of this was.

[00:31:05] Now, I still didn't believe on the actual thing itself, on the digital thing. I was like, "Ah, people believe it works, and it's going to be valuable, so that's great." But I can't invest into that, knowing as a businessman that it's going to be tangible or be worth something in the future. What I can do is buy the equipment and resell the equipment.

[00:31:28] So the miners themselves. So that was actually my first step into crypto, was getting my brother, and we parted up together. I flew to China and bought 400, they're called grid seeds. It was these little miners, 400 of them. And then I created a web online store and started selling them 200 a pop.

[00:31:48] Luke: Wow.

[00:31:48] Oto: So I was like, that's how I'm going to make money.

[00:31:51] Luke: So the hardware for people that want to create Bitcoin?

[00:31:54] Oto: Yeah. Think of it as the mining equipment. When you go to a gold cave, that's the equipment you buy to be able to harvest the gold. That's the equipment that you need to get these processing machines. It's either a graphic processing unit, a GPU. It used to be CPU, the computer processor. But it got harder as time went on. The math formula that you have to solve gets harder and harder. As more people join in, it self-regulates and then adjusts how much of it is coming out.

[00:32:31] Luke: So just to jump ahead, with Bitcoin the idea there is there's a finite amount of this data. There presumes to be gold or whatever other store of value. If somebody can just get the hardware and start mining, why can't there become an infinite amount of Bitcoin where it gets devalued?

[00:32:58] Oto: Yes. Great question.

[00:33:00] Luke: Why can't you just keep making more of it and then it's worth one penny instead of $90,000 or whatever?

[00:33:05] Oto: And it's funny because there's also the opposite argument, because the goal was to make this into a currency. It would never be a currency. But the other fight on the other side is there's only 21 million of them. What happens when it's over? It can't be a currency. You need inflation. And it's like, no, but you can divide it.

[00:33:23] Luke: So why is there only 21 million of them, and why can't more be made?

[00:33:30] Oto: So there's three layers that make up blockchain. I'll give the analogy of the computer so it's easier to comprehend. So layer 0 on a computer is the physical hardware. So there's a company that created that hardware, IBM, Apple. And then you have layer 1 that's the operating system. So you have macOS, or Windows, Ubuntu, which is the operating system for the device.

[00:33:57] And then layer 2 are the programs. So Zoom, iMessage, whatever that's built on the operating system. Same thing with crypto. You got the hardware level, layer 0. You got the operating system, layer 1s, that is like Bitcoin. There's only 120 of them in the crypto space of layer 1s. And supported and functioning, 30 to 50.

[00:34:20] So not many. And then layer 2s, that's the programs. 2.99 million projects out there in layer 2s. Why? Because those are very easy to create. That's a copy and paste. Very easy. Layer 1 require--

[00:34:35] Luke: Is what people call shitcoins?

[00:34:37] Oto: That's where all the shitcoins are.

[00:34:39] Luke: I don't know what that means either, but I hear it a lot from bitcoin purists. They're always talking shit about the shitcoins. I'm like, "What even is that? I better not buy any, whatever they're.

[00:34:49] Oto: That's a whole conversation too, man on speculative projects versus utilizing projects.

[00:34:54] Luke: Yeah. You're like, "Bro, I made 17 million on shitcoins."

[00:34:57] Oto: Dude, the Dogecoin, I was using it as a hedge, and I forgot about the dust that I left in the wallet, which was maybe 30 bucks in total. And this was in 2015. Forgot about it. And then Elon Musk tweeted about Doge. This was 2023 or something, 2022. I go look at my wallets, $750,000.

[00:35:21] Luke: What? Holy shit.

[00:35:25] Oto: I was like, I was using this to hedge. I was holding a lot of Doge at the time when I was using it to hedge Bitcoin.

[00:35:33] Luke: Bro, you just reminded me of something actually. When Bitcoin first came out, and you could buy stuff on the dark web with it, I bought some to buy smart drugs or some shit from China or something. And then forgot about the wallet that I had, and this is way, way early.

[00:35:54] And then I still didn't know what it was, and there was like a couple hundred bucks in there. So I took it out. You know what I mean? But it was probably when Bitcoin was $10 or something.

[00:36:03] Oto: That sounds right.

[00:36:04] Luke: Yeah. I was like, "Goddamnit." But I just had no idea what it even was. I was just like, "What? They don't take credit cards? What's this Bitcoin thing?" And I figured how to buy it, and I don't remember what I bought.

[00:36:13] Oto: Dude, during those times, before 2015, there's websites you can go to that were Bitcoin faucets. You just go in there and it would drip out some Bitcoin to you every hour or something. You just need to go back every hour and click the thing, and it would give you more Bitcoin. I did a lot of that too.

[00:36:34] Luke: Imagine how many people out there like me with a couple hundred dollars in there, whatever. Imagine how many people are multimillionaires but don't have any idea because they just forgot about their wallet or they couldn't get into it anymore. A lot of the people that are winning are probably winning as a result of the people who didn't know they won or won and then couldn't liquidate.

[00:36:58] Oto: There's definitely a lot of that. Definitely. Because I know personally I have maybe five computers at home that are old wallets. I probably have 100 wallets in different layer 1s. And I've yet to go back and look into them just because I've been fine. I haven't needed to go search for more crypto. It's like doing laundry and finding 20 bucks in the pocket, but it's like $150,000.

[00:37:25] Luke: Right. It's like change in the sofa cushion kind of thing. Like, goddamn, there's $3 in here. All right, sorry to inter interject there. Take me back to-- you were talking about the three layers.

[00:37:39] Oto: Yeah. So in blockchain, similar to the computer, you have the three layers. And the layer that I believe has the storage of value capacity, like the toroidalism in it is the layer 1s, the ones that have its own chain. That means that they're not dependent on any other operating system to function.

[00:37:03] All they're dependent on is whatever machine is supporting the network, supporting that math. So going back to that question you made like, well, why can't you just print more and just mine out more coins, when it was initially launched-- so these are the variables that create blockchain.

[00:38:20] So very big distinction I want to make here between Bitcoin and blockchain. Two separate things. Blockchain is not Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is blockchain. Blockchain are fundamental ideas, concepts that were put together, and we use this digital ecospace to create the concepts and code the concepts.

[00:38:44] That's all that blockchain is. So there's 10 different variables, I can go down this list, that create blockchain. Bitcoin is a specific version of blockchain. It's a coded blockchain that is branded to be called Bitcoin. And so if it didn't have the name Bitcoin, we would have to call it something because it's a different code.

[00:39:03] It's like a unique code to itself. So I'll explain a little bit of that. So Bitcoin specifically, it's hard coded into it to be finite. So only 21 million coins will ever exist. It's self-regulating. So as new miners come in, as more people put processing power to solve the math problem, it will self-regulate. The math problem will get harder or easier depending on how much people are processing in there. So here's the analogy.

[00:39:35] Luke: Amazing.

[00:39:35] Oto: A gold cave.

[00:39:36] Luke: So those governors keep equilibrium.

[00:39:41] Oto: Watch, I'll give you an example, and it's going to like, oh, that makes sense. So a gold cave, there's nobody there. Nobody knows it exists. You've done all the work to know that there's gold in there. So you walk in there with your shovel and you start digging for gold.

[00:39:56] There is a specific math problem that's happening in that moment. You're one body in this gold cave. So there's a bunch of gold in there. We don't know how much. But there's a rate of how much you can extract at any given moment based on your ability to put out work.

[00:40:11] As soon as you tell your friends, "Hey, there's golden here. Come on." And then two friends come with shovels and then one of them brings a backhoe, a bigger machine. Now what happened as soon as they come in and they start digging for gold? What's the math problem?

[00:40:28] Well, your chance is individually of finding gold just dropped, especially because one of the guys brought a backhoe. But your ability to find gold as a group shot up. Did anybody say anything? Did anybody go like, "You're going to get less than me, and you're going to--" No, it just happened naturally.

[00:40:47] So we've taken these concepts, these adjustments that happen naturally in real life, and we've coded it into hard code. And then when you put that code out, it's a lockbox code, you can call it. So it's got all these protocols built into it. And then when you put it out on the Internet for anybody to download like a program, when you download it into your computer, you're downloading all of the transactions.

[00:41:13] Every single transaction that's ever happened on the ledger, every single thing that's ever happened on that specific ledger, you download it to your device. So you're now a part of a decentralized ecosystem of people in a trustless system, because we have the ledger. I can look at my computer, my device, and know exactly what transactions have been happening, and know what the math is.

[00:41:36] So that allows for strategy. That doesn't exist anywhere else that I can look somewhere and know how many people are mining inside the cave. I know what the difficulty is to find the gold. I know how much I can get if I put in my processing power. That's very different than speculating.

[00:41:53] You're looking at the math and doing the strategy, and then you can project forward almost. You can look forward and see what your potential is. So that's why I call it the hardest asset that ever existed, because it's not something that can be now, at least in the last like six, seven years, it's gotten to a physical point, like in physics, where it cannot be taken down anymore because of physics.

[00:42:23] Basically, the amount of processing power, the amount of individual devices that are supporting this network right now for Bitcoin specifically, it's over 650 exaFLOPS of processing power. So the fastest supercomputer in the world is 26 teraFLOPS.

[00:42:42] So you got teraFLOPS and then there's one in between. I think it's quintaFLOPS, and then exaFLOPS is a six, and there's 600 of that. So we're at a point, even if you put all the supercomputers together in the world to try to gain the 51% necessary to make change, not even close.

[00:43:04] Luke: So Bitcoin is a safe investment based on-- that's the thing I think early for me, it was like, but this thing's just totally ephemeral. It could just, poof, it's just gone. There's no such thing as Bitcoin anymore. There goes your $100,000 or whatever. But from your standpoint, because it's decentralized and there's so many nodes, I guess, for lack of a better term, it's impossible to kill.

[00:43:32] Oto: At this moment, there's too many backups. That's what it is. It's backed up on satellites right now. It's not much. It's 150 gigabytes of information, of data. It's growing every day, but it's not a lot for you to download. But yes, it's at this point now where it's-- so here's the duality of it.

[00:43:53] You have this technology that, in my opinion, is intrinsically meant to be used in the private sector. But because everybody's lost themselves in identity and self-worth and externalized it, they're looking on the public side of things at the price of it. And it's like, guys, the price does not determine value.

[00:44:13] The price is speculative. That's what somebody's willing to sell or buy something for. Value is found when you individually go after the information and try to figure out how is it valuable to me? And that's when you reinternalize value. And then you can start actually acting as a bank.

[00:44:31] That's a big thing we try to teach too, is helping people shift away from the gambler mindset, wartime capitalism to the peacetime capitalism, where you're acting as the house for your family, for your friends, and utilizing the technology, using the tools to build wealth.

[00:44:46] Luke: What is the impact or potential impact of government on Bitcoin? What if they, for whatever reason don't like people having sovereignty? Not that they would ever do that. What if it was regulated? All of a sudden the government imposes some codes and statutes on my Internet provider, and the URLs that go to crypto exchanges and stuff, they're all blocked?

[00:45:23] We're in a communist China kind of situation, which isn't that far away, if you're paying attention. I literally can't get to the Internet. Then my zillion dollars in Bitcoin means nothing. What's like worst case scenario in terms of the government interfering with our capacity to operate in this space privately?

[00:45:46] Oto: So I think that the reach of the government is limited to the public sector, first of all. And also it's limited to the gatekeepers of the public sector. You just said, how do we access the Internet, if that gets gatekeeped, the gatekeepers block it? There's decentralized internet now.

[00:46:08] There's definitely two big companies right now that have created a decentralized ecosystem, or at least a space that you can share the server information through blockchain, through the blockchain network.

[00:46:19] One of them is called Helium, helium.co. And they have their own devices. I talk about this too in our coursework about like, what is the Internet? That's a question I think most people ask themselves. What is the Internet? What are we actually doing here? What is actually happening? How is this thing actually built?

[00:46:40] And I've done the work, so you guys are going to hear a nice summary of this. So 95-plus percent of the Internet, maybe less now because of the balloon satellites, but for a while, 95% of the internet was hard cables. So it's an mycelium network of hard cables that connect everything to everything.

[00:47:00] Countries like US connected to Europe, connected to Africa, going under the ocean. There's these massive cables, and there's redundancies over the last 50 years through free market, through competition, through all the things. Just laying new lines down because the old ones aren't as good.

[00:47:23] It's actually cheaper to just lay the lines on top of it than dig out the other one and put the new one. So there's all these lines that exist that we have access to. What was the issue though? We had to use their operating systems. So every time I want to talk to you over Zoom, I'm going through three different gatekeepers.

[00:47:42] I'm going through Cox, cable. I'm going through Apple, through their operating system, and then going through Zoom's operating system and gatekeeping. So how can we circumvent that? How can we go outside of that and not have to perform with this technology in the public, as the private?

[00:48:01] You use blockchain. You use blockchain technology. Like I said, Helium, they have this little device, and you connect it to-- there's two ways you can do it. You can connect it to the regular Internet line, or you can connect it even to just the outlet. Let me blow your mind. Did you know that electrical cables can carry information?

[00:48:23] Luke: Yes.

[00:48:25] Oto: On Amazon, you can buy these little things. You just plug it into the wall outlet somewhere, and on the other one plug it into wall outlet.

[00:48:32] Luke: I saw a post about that, and the inverse is also true that your ethernet cables carry power.

[00:48:40] Oto: Yes.

[00:48:41] Luke: So when we put these cameras in, I'm like, "Where's the power thing?" And Matt from Sound Shed Studios, a great guy who's helped put the studio together, he's like, "No, they're powered by the ethernet line." I was like, "Oh, no wonder when I've tested ethernet cables, they have crazy electric fields." I'm like, "What? There's no power running through that." Well, it turns out there are.

[00:49:02] Oto: It's a very simple difference. So the ethernet cables, all of these cables are pushing out an aura, a toroidal aura. And those ethernet cables, they keep the aura inside the cable

[00:49:16] So you're pushing information through the cable, but it's using the aura. The electrical cables, they have an aura. There's a aura of about three feet around these electrical cables that we see in the streets. That's where they push the information through. It's through the aura of the electrical cables.

[00:49:32] Luke: What a trip.

[00:49:02] Oto: So we have all the lines. We have all the hard cables in place already. What we were missing was the operating system. And so blockchain is now the operating system that we can use, create our own devices. Now we have connection.

[00:49:49] Luke: Wow. That was going to be my next question, is to break down blockchain in simpleton terms, because I don't know what it is either. The way I think about it is kind of what you described, that it's another Internet user face that's encrypted and therefore more secure. But that's literally as far as my very little understanding goes.

[00:50:15] Oto: That's the good first way to look at it, first step to look at it. When you create a layer 1 ecosystem, you're creating a new economy, a new Internet nation based on the commerce that you build into the code.

[00:50:31] So the layer 1s for sure, they're like different nations in their own economies. The layer 2 is being more dependent. And then if you're smart, you make a layer two that's agnostic and allows it to be used on any chain, any layer 1. What was the question? I'm sorry.

[00:50:52] Luke: What is blockchain in simple terms? And also what are the possibilities for it? I'm always forward thinking. When the powers that be change the rules, what's the workaround? So say we upload this audio and video file on the regular old Internet to an RSS feed that then pumps it out to Spotify and YouTube and whatever.

[00:51:15] It's like, if they come tomorrow and they're like, "Oh, we don't like you anymore, we're going to Alex Jones you and just nuke you from the Internet," could I use blockchain to still get content into people's hands that want it?

[00:51:28] Oto: Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of solutions that you can do with blockchain. And we're seeing a lot of those products coming out now, because I think that that's the big shift that's happened in crypto recently, where you have to have a product before you launch. So I've seen a lot of social media solutions, a lot of things.

[00:51:47] So what is blockchain? Like I mentioned earlier, it's coded concepts. So it's taking these concepts that we do in our everyday life, but we've never put it into one thing. So I'll name a few. I can't remember all of them, but first one is permissionless.

[00:52:06] There's no permission to access. A good example of that is like when you're in the jungle and you see a river. There's nobody stopping you from using that river. You can just go walk up and use it. So blockchain is essentially like that.

[00:52:17] Through any portal, any device, computer, you can access any of the blockchains. There's no gatekeeping other than obviously to access the internet. So permissionless, decentralized meaning that the code is not central to one server. So you need 51% or more of the whole processing power control of the server for that specific code to have control over it.

[00:52:45] So if you go to Facebook and you use Facebook, you don't have control of that. Facebook can make changes at any time they want, and you just have to agree to it and keep using it. And blockchain, that's not the case. Once you create the code and you put it out, because it's decentralized, it's in a bunch of people's computers, you would have to have consensus.

[00:53:06] Everybody has to agree to changing the code, or at least 51% to changing the code for us to be able to get consensus to get to that point. So the decentralization aspect of it gives back that control. So that's another concept right there. It is deflationary, deflation. Name me another asset that's deflationary.

[00:53:31] Why haven't we ever created an asset that's deflationary. Only inflationary. So being deflationary creates more scarcity. There's less and less of it as time moves forward. It's scarce. That's another concept. It's limited to how many of it exists. What other asset out there do you know that is limited in how much exists of it? Maybe land. But even then, I think we have more land that we're not being told.

[00:53:57] Luke: If you get past the ice wall. All real estate inside the circle would just tank.

[00:54:03] Oto: Exactly. I'm like, "We found more land." Done.

[00:54:06] Luke: We got four more worlds right over that wall.

[00:54:11] Oto: Gold. How many gold caves are out there that were found and then the billionaire was like, let's just keep it right here. When we need to take profits, we'll feed the market with a bunch of new gold.

[00:54:25] And I just posted a reel the other day about if you look at the inflation at the dollar price increase of stocks to the dollar price of gold in correlation, it's almost one-to-one the inflation rate that we're having to what stocks are going up to what gold is going down. And so it would've been better-- your gold that you bought 10 years ago will buy you way less stock. So that just proves that stock prices is just the one-to-one to inflation.

[00:54:59] Luke: Wow.

[00:55:00] Oto: I know. So it's a real thing. The math is there. So gold is, in my opinion, just the hedge that they use to keep the inflation in the path that they want it to. So Bitcoin, crypto space, there's all these layer 1s, Bitcoin being one of them, that is the flow of the energy is more toroidal, because of the concepts that are built into it that don't create more inflation.

[00:55:28] Luke: How does the crypto ethos relate to reciprocity and the peace time capitalism versus the wartime, selfish, extractive capitalism? What's the difference in using that as a store of value or as a currency? Let's just say other currency disappeared and the whole world is just on Bitcoin. What changes in the way we interact and the way we engage in commerce and contracts and things like that?

[00:56:05] Oto: Yeah. So then that goes to like the difference between being a speculator in the space or being a person that's going to utilize. Do you want to be the gambler, or do you want to be the house?

[00:56:14] And I think that we would have way more control over the value that we create if you utilize, if you actually use the technology. So yeah, I think the big differentiating factor here is using strategy to build wealth rather than just speculating. Actually, ask a question again. I'm sorry. I had the thought, and I totally forgot.

[00:56:43] Luke: If Bitcoin was ubiquitous, how would that impact the way we engage in commerce with one another in terms of reciprocity? It's a different type of scarcity. It's like if we're going out to work so many hours for so many dollars and you know the inflation is making that worth less every single second you have it in your pocket. What changes about the world and the way we relate to one another in terms of buying and selling and contracting, if we're in-- and I know this is not going to happen-- but an idealistic Bitcoin-only space?

[00:57:24] What's the difference between me paying you in some Federal Reserve notes to come over to my house and do some work versus me giving you Bitcoin? Is there any difference on a day to day level? How it impacts culture and relationships and our capacity to build and create. What's different about in a spiritual sense and also in a practical sense?

[00:57:47] Oto: Great question. All right, so this goes back, I think, to where does your self-worth lie? If your self-worth is outside of you, it doesn't matter what you interact with. You're going to be looking for that thing to feel validated, to feel success, to feel whatever. It can be currency. It can be Bitcoin. It can be gold. It could be real estate. It could be whatever.

[00:58:08] If you're always looking for that thing and allowing that to determine how you feel, then you're already lost in the pudding. I think that Bitcoin allows us to reconnect to our self-worth a little bit more, mainly because there's nobody to call if you make a mistake. You're going to be met with your shadow very quickly on how you relate to crypto.

[00:58:32] Based on the work you did to manage it, you'll get an immediate reaction of your current relationship to it, and nobody would call it to go like, "I messed up." So I think that that is the better path, if you have to choose. But I think the bigger path, the one I think we should all try to strive for is to recreate that relationship, reinternalize our value, reinternalize our self-worth, meaning start to look at things outside of us as the tools to express the value, not as the tools to give us value.

[00:59:08] It's a very different way to look at it, and it's difficult. Don't get me wrong. It took me a long time to get to this point. But what that's going to do is it's going to give you more control. You're not going to be as reactive because you're utilizing the technology. You'll create that separation between price and value because you've connected your dots.

[00:59:27] It's like, why would somebody take the vaccine and somebody not? Because this guy did the work, and this guy is just looking at value based on what he heard. So take it to the markets. Same thing. If you're determining value based on what you've heard and what people are talking about rather than the research, then you're just speculating.

[00:59:47] You're just playing the speculation and regurgitating. So I think the bigger picture is reinternalizing and then utilizing the technology to put value. So it's not necessarily that Bitcoin will be the one. I think that will be like the people's reserve that will use as liquidity, or to create backing or hedging.

[01:00:08] But I think that as we all reinternalize value and create these small ecosystems, these layer 1s that are our own voting system, pooling of funds, Kickstarter, literally anything, social media-- you can do anything in these ecosystems, I think that if we start building that, then it won't matter what the narratives are.

[01:00:35] Imagine we create our own little community of a garbage man, police officers, people at the grocery store, and they all create their own coins. And then we start marketing with each other in our own little ecosystem. Well, it's like, I'm an accountant. You're at a garbage man. Let's trade. Let's do a market together.

[01:00:54] Luke: Yes, yes. What's going on in countries that have allowed Bitcoin to be used in the mainstream, like, I think El Salvador?

[01:01:07] Oto: Yeah. The president, I forgot his name, but he--

[01:01:10] Luke: Jack Kruse is a big Bitcoin advocate, and I haven't talked to him, but looks like he has a really nice crib down there. I'm assuming he went and bought it with Bitcoin. Is that happening in that country?

[01:01:22] Oto: Yes.

[01:01:23] Luke: Okay.

[01:01:23] Oto: Oh yes.

[01:01:24] Luke: So if I would've been one of those smart guys in 2016 or something, and I'm sitting on 50 million of Bitcoin right now, but it's not liquid-- it's not in US dollars and it's not my bank-- it's in some wallet, I could take that to El Salvador and be like, "Cool, I'm buying that ranch."

[01:01:41] Oto: Yeah. You just memorize the private key if you want. Not even take a device. Just go with the private key in your head. You just show up there on a computer and you pull up the money, and you transfer it, and you're done.

[01:01:50] Luke: Are there any other countries that have adopted it in a real way like that? The US, man. There's probably 3 or 4,000 different businesses that will accept Bitcoin right now. You can go on Expedia and do it.

[01:02:06] Luke: No shit. I didn't know that.

[01:02:07] Oto: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:02:07] Luke: Wow. I guess because I never spend mine, I'm like, I'm hoarding it. I don't pay attention to how you can actually spend it because I don't want to know. I might be tempted to.

[01:02:14] Oto: I would recommend, if you want to tap into that, there is a way. You ready?

[01:02:18] Luke: Yeah.

[01:02:19] Oto: You're a bank, bro. You are your own bank.

[01:02:22] Luke: Thank you.

[01:02:25] Oto: So why not take a loan from yourself? A loan that you never have to pay back? There's 0% interest.

[01:02:33] Luke: Okay, I'm listening.

[01:02:34] Oto: There's really no potential of liquidation if you do it right. So there are decentralized platforms that you can go into with your collateral, and instead of selling your collateral, your Bitcoin, you take a loan against it. And they have different ratios.

[01:02:48] You can get anywhere between 50% LTV to 70% LTV on some platforms. There's one platform I know-- this is a little more on the perimeter of crypto--

[01:03:01] Luke: Fringe, little--

[01:03:01] Oto: Fringe, yeah. Because it's a new type of technology that I'm testing now.

[01:03:06] Luke: Okay.

[01:03:07] Oto: But they have a 0% interest, no payback period. 110% cushion. So if you put in a $110, you can take out $100.

[01:03:19] Luke: Damn.

[01:03:20] Oto: Yeah.

[01:03:20] Luke: So with this opportunity, someone who's, say, sitting on a million dollars in Bitcoin could go get a 500,000-dollar loan, start a business with it, buy a fucking storage unit, some other passive income generating investment, or just park it somewhere else. That's interesting.

[01:03:42] Oto: And then you just wait for the Bitcoin price to rise, because it will.

[01:03:44] Luke: And then it pays itself back.

[01:03:47] Oto: No, you don't need to pay it back because you have an LTV. So then the price will keep going up, and then you just have more available collateral.

[01:03:56] That's nuts, dude.

[01:03:57] Oto: And then there's some platforms, so instead of liquidation, they'll do something called stabilization. So here's a trick too that happens in crypto. A taxable event in investing, it's FIFO, first in, first out. So you take the cash, you put into the investment, and then you don't pay taxes on it until you cash out, until you sell it and you cash out. It's a first out. And then you take the difference of that--

[01:04:21] Luke: Like a capital gains if you sell a piece of real estate.

[01:04:24] Oto: Yeah, yeah. Short-term gains or long-term gains, depending on the length. In crypto, because we have these stablecoins, it's not fiat. It's not a contract with fiat. It's a stablecoin.

[01:04:40] It's a hybrid. So it's not considered any one thing. So you consider it an asset or a property even. So you're going from asset to asset. You're not going from asset to fiat. And so because of that, they were able to create this thing called stabilization. So let's say you have collateral.

[01:04:57] This happened to me twice already on this platform, and it highly benefited me. So I had, let's say, $100,000 dollars in Bitcoin on this platform. I took out a $70,000 loan, and then the dollar price of the Bitcoin started going down, 95, 90, 85. And all of a sudden, it hits that threshold of the amount that I took out.

[01:05:19] It will then sell the Bitcoin into stablecoin and then stabilize it. So it'll find the amount that you loaned out and stabilize at that dollar price. Let's say Bitcoin keeps going down, keeps going down, keeps going down, keeps going down. They open up a button for you to buy back in with that stable coin.

[01:05:38] Luke: What?

[01:05:39] Oto: Yeah. So dude, every time--

[01:05:43] Luke: I wish I had an accountant's brain like you. I can track you, but if you sat me down at the computer and you're just like, "Yeah, you just go here and you click there." I'd be lost in two seconds.

[01:05:54] Oto: Yeah. I do that sometimes. I'll make it sound really simple, and it is to me. But yeah, it's not.

[01:05:59] Luke: I'm sure some people listening are more knowledgeable, obviously than I am. Maybe somewhere in between the spectrum where you exist and where I exist. But like I hear things like this. I'm like, "Oh, I got to do this." And then I walk and sit at my computer. I'm like, "Wait, what did he say?"

[01:06:15] I think that's the thing for some of us with, let's just say with Bitcoin, but it could be true of all crypto, is if we're not really computer savvy-- the idea of money is totally nebulous anyway, as you said. We're already on a digital currency. We just don't know it because we have a $20 bill in our hand or whatever.

[01:06:35] But it's like, I've had situations where I didn't put in some numbers or wallet, and then just money evaporated. Thankfully never a lot, but that's because I'll test. Even when I was like moving into my treasure wallet, I'm like, "I'm going to do $10 at a time." A bunch of times until I can repeat the process and make sure I don't screw it up.

[01:06:59] So $90,000 just doesn't evaporate or something. So I think the tech side of it is a real barrier to entry for a lot of us because there's a lot of volatility. But also if you don't really understand what you're doing with some of the opportunities that you just described, like, "Oh, go borrow against your Bitcoin."

[01:07:20] You might not have read the terms and conditions, or you click the wrong button, and all of a sudden, poof, you're screwed. It's very temperamental and delegate.

[01:07:28] Oto: And you're the only one there.

[01:07:30] Luke: Exactly.

[01:07:31] Oto: You're the responsible party.

[01:07:31] Luke: To what you said earlier, I can't call Amex and be like, "Chargeback. I never got whatever I bought online." There's no big brother there to monitor you and control you, but there's also no big brother you can call if you oopsie, I hit the delete key.

[01:07:48] Oto: I don't even know what to say. You said it. The importance of doing the work. That's why I said what I said, is like, have you actually searched for the value, or are you just hearing what other people are saying and you're excited and FOMO? And that's the trap.

[01:08:04] It's that reactive gambler mindset. And I feel like the state of things in the world right now is so desperate that people are falling to that trap very easily. But you want long-term wealth. You want long-term storage and protection of that wealth. You have to do that work. And I think it starts with that step of recreating that relationship and recognizing how you currently are.

[01:08:28] In the 10-week program I have, that's the first thing we go through. I built it like a hero's journey. So the whole thing, as you go through it, it gets harder and harder, and you're going deeper and deeper. And so initially the first part is we're going to shock you.

[01:08:42] We're going to shed. We're going to discharge. We're going to let go. And that's the first two weeks. And it's all with the intention of recreating what your current relationship is to the energy of exchange so that you can see it for what it is. And then you can create a brand new relationship with blockchain. I've had an 80-year-old graduate recently from Australia.

[01:09:08] Luke: Oh, that's so cool.

[01:09:09] Oto: So I'm very proud to say that.

[01:09:10] Luke: I think we have these scarcity blocks and self-worth blocks that limit our capacity for abundance and wealth, financial security because on some level we don't think we deserve it, or we're not good at it. We're not smart enough. I don't know about business. I don't understand numbers.

[01:09:35] There's also, I presume, a huge scarcity and limitation in, oh, I just don't understand tech. I'm not good at computers. I don't even know how to get into my Gmail. How am I going to like handle crypto? Do you find, and I'm assuming help people get over that hurdle that even if that isn't your strong suit per se-- the fact that you were an accountant for 10 years tells me you have a different brain than me.

[01:10:04] You send me an Excel spreadsheet, and I'll throw up, literally. I'm like, "I don't even know." My bookkeeper sends me shit. I go, "That's nice. I have no idea what that P&L and thing even means. Where's the part where it says how much money I made?" I don't even know.

[01:10:18] So it's a like a self-limiting, well, I'm not good at that, therefore I'm not going to even try. What would you say to someone to help them overcome that perceived limitation of, well, I'm not good at tech. I'm not good at computers. I'm not good at numbers. Therefore I'm going to continue to struggle.

[01:10:39] Oto: Yeah. One thing that I know I've done differently than most that are teaching this stuff in crypto is I've created a community that is self-accountable and interdependent.

[01:10:52] Since the inception the discovery call with every student, I would say, I'm not here to recreate dependency on me. I'm here to teach you how to fish and teach you it to the point where you can fix the fishing rod if it breaks, so that you can teach others. So yeah, it's just about creating that environment. Oh God, what was your question? I'm so sorry.

[01:11:15] Luke: No, it's okay. It's my fault as a host for asking questions that are six paragraphs long. There's the limitation of scarcity thinking, like a poverty mindset. It's just like, oh, everyone in my family's always been poor, and we just don't know how to make money.

[01:11:36] That's one level when it comes to financial abundance and financial success. But when we're getting into like the crypto and blockchain, I think there's another level of limiting beliefs that is like, I'm not good at tech. I suck at computers.

[01:11:53] So what would be your way to overcome that barrier to entry for people that have that, that are just overwhelmed by logins and technologies and codes and your wallet number, and all of the kind of techy stuff that I think most of us could probably figure out more than we think we could if we were motivated to do so.

[01:12:14] Oto: Yeah. I think when you're learning something complex, it really is about like, what environment am I learning this in? There's really no one-stop shop, or there hasn't been for a while, a one-stop place that you can learn all this stuff. And that's what I've been trying to create. That's what I've been trying to put together.

[01:12:31] And over the years, I added layers to it. So different things that I believe would help-- it's like different learning ways or different ways to learn. So I add in there quizzes and worksheets for the logical person, the videos and the lives for the artist person because they can engage.

[01:12:52] And then you have the embodiment challenges that will allow you to have the chance to feel the shifts. I'll give you an example. One of the embodiment challenges we do that really helps a lot of people when they go through it is, and you mentioned a little bit about giving money to-- without a home. What do you call it? Houseless. Houseless people.

[01:13:16] One of the challenges is give a tip to someone that is not expecting a tip. Someone that's not their normal to receive a tip. We have a list of service providers in our lives that like, oh, yeah, you give your tip to the waiter, and you give a tip to the valet. What about the guy that's ripping your movie ticket?

[01:13:37] Or when you go to the hotel and the person at the front desk? They don't get a tip. Give a tip in those moments and see what happens. So these little challenges that will help you-- it's like a first step to like, I've never done this before, but I'm going to do it.

[01:13:56] Another challenge is put a timer for one time during the day that you have to do something, whatever it is.10 jumping jacks, or you have to sing a line of a song. You have to choose that thing, and you have to do it. So like people are in the grocery store and you're like, "Oh crap, I got to do 10 pushups now."

[01:14:14] So going through those fears, those little initial fears as you start learning this stuff, I've noticed that around the fifth to sixth week in this 10 week program, they start building that confidence, and they start feeling safe to ask questions, to actually engage with the rest of the community, the interdependent self-accountable community. And then before I can even answer, the other students are coming in and supporting each other and creating that space for that kind environment.

[01:14:43] Luke: Cool, cool. That's awesome. Yeah. I think something you're really good at is taking complex ideas and making them relatable and digestible. It's a rare skill. For people that have a body of knowledge, it's very technical. I think it's difficult for a lot of those people to communicate it to people in a way that's understandable. They're just like, "Oh, you just click on the thing and open the thing."

[01:15:13] It's like, well, that's easy for you to say. You know what I'm saying? It's some degree of empathy I think where you can like, okay, I need to, dumb this down isn't the right way to put it, but I need to put this in terms that someone who has less understanding and less experience in this area than I do can understand. To be able to communicate across a spectra of experience and understanding to be able to meet people at their level.

[01:15:40] Oto: I think it was Einstein that said that if you can't simply explain it, you don't know it well enough. And it's like, what is your ability to anybody that's in front of you that you can adjust to who that person is so that they can get it?

[01:15:54] If I'm talking to a mechanic, I'm probably not going to describe blockchain like I would to a doctor. Or maybe I would actually because they look at it similar. But you know what I mean. Different people will receive information different ways.

[01:16:08] And so then that's been my journey this last three, four years in creating this academy, is taking in as many perspectives without bias so that I can see all the different facets of how it's being looked at or recognized as for me to create my own, for me to connect my own dots and create my own perspective.

[01:16:27] Luke: Epic. For those that want the show notes today, you can find those at lukestorey.com/crypto, where we're also going to put a link to your crypto academy, which I think is what you're referring to. Or you can go to lukestorey.com/cryptoacademy, and if you use the code LUKE there, you get 10% off the courses.

[01:16:50] Having said that, what about the security of Bitcoin? Again, speaking to the people that aren't super tech savvy and they're like, "Ah, I got 10 grand in Bitcoin." How easy is it for a hacker to get into your computer and steal your wallet thing and all of a sudden you go in your Coinbase and it's gone?

[01:17:13] What's the difference between hardware custodian thing-- you call it self-custodian or not. Give me the terminology, the deal on that. As I said, I just did the treasure thing because I asked a crypto friend. He's like, "Dude, what? You have it in Coinbase? You're stupid. You can't do that." So I followed that, but still, again, I don't really know why or what.

[01:17:32] What's the worst-case scenario if someone's like, yeah, this feels like a solid investment? I'm going to throw disposable income into it every month and just set it and forget it. And then what prevents them 10 years from now, it just going poof and it's gone?

[01:17:46] Oto: Great question. I get that often. I would say the best way to look at it is-- there's many layers to this, but security wise, it's about how you store it. You're hitting the nail on the head. There's many ways to store it. And I think what most people are doing is that they're looking for what's familiar in the crypto space and comparing it to what they're used to, like stocks and commodities.

[01:18:09] What do we do with those? I want to buy Tesla. You go to Ameritrade, Scottrade. You buy it. You log in, you buy it, and then you log off. I own Tesla. That is legal ownership. So that does work in legislation for ownership. In crypto, you don't want to do it that way. You don't want to just be legal owner of it.

[01:18:28] You want to be possession-based owner. So that's number one. Possession is nine tenths of the law. How do we possess digital assets? So what we do is, instead of buying the crypto and keeping it on Coinbase or these exchanges and falling to their policies, they're going to be acting like a bank now.

[01:18:47] They're under the regulatory body of the US government, so whatever policy is there, you're under it. It doesn't matter if it's crypto. You don't have access to the private key. And that's a saying in crypto. If you don't have access to the private key, you don't own your crypto.

[01:19:02] That's number one thing. So depending on what you're doing with your crypto at any given moment, you'll store it differently. So the first step, you're buying crypto. Then you're going to be in a hot wallet. You're going to be an essential exchange. Hot wallet. You buy it. You remove it. You take it out of there. Where do you put it?

[01:19:23] Then the next step is, okay, are you going to use this crypto to do something with it, or are you just going to store it, cold storage it? That's where you would transfer it next. You did it right? Whoever told you that, give them a gold star. Yeah.

[01:19:37] Luke: Think it was Steph. Thanks, Steph.

[01:19:39] Oto: Perfect. Because that's how you want to store it. You want to put it in a cold storage device. Why? Because that is air gapped. So there's three types of storage. There's hot wallets, warm wallets, and cold wallets. Hot wallets are, you have no access to the private key, and it's always connected to the Internet. So might as well have gifted it to them.

[01:19:58] Warm wallet is a program, so an app that you download or a software on a computer, on a desktop. But it's one that you can access to private key. So that's warm. What does that mean? It means that if I take that private key, write it on a piece of paper, I have backed up my wallet. So what does that mean?

[01:20:19] If that program, that company that I downloaded goes away, disappears, I have the backup, and I can take that backup and go to any other company out there, or not even choose one of those companies. I can pull the backup from my own device. You're using these programs and devices because we're not technical, and we know we need people to help us reach into the blockchain and be able to access it.

[01:20:47] But you can do it yourself. That's actually the safest way. The most secure way to do it is to spin up your own wallet with your own node, like a raspberry pi, those little, tiny computers. So that's the best way to do it. But if you are downloading something, just make sure you get the backup key because then you're secure from that.

[01:21:07] But then the best way to do it would be cold storage other than your own node. The node one is better than cold storage even, and I'll tell you why in a second. The devices are good because they're air-gapped. So you can actually do something called the hybrid wallet where you can download an extension warm wallet, like Metamask or Rabby.

[01:21:27] Those are two different ones that you can use. And then create a hybrid wallet with your treasure device. Then you have the convenience of being able to use your crypto quickly with the security of having a device, meaning that there's two extra steps that I need to take physically by connecting the device and then matching the numbers, and then clicking the buttons, for the money to leave that wallet.

[01:21:52] Luke: With the cold storage you have what looks like just basically a little thumb drive, kind of. If one was to physically lose that or it got destroyed, is your Bitcoin gone?

[01:22:06] Oto: You have to back up that up. So make sure you back up the device now. Because that's a whole separate private key than the other wallet you had on the exchange. So back up the wallet. Write it on a piece of paper, all the words, or memorize it. Dude, that's what I did.

[01:22:21] Luke: Really?

[01:22:21] Oto: Yeah. It's 24 words. Can't memorize 24 words?

[01:22:24] Luke: No, I don't think so.

[01:22:25] Oto: 24 words, bro.

[01:22:27] Luke: I don't know, man. Memory's not--

[01:22:28] Oto: For full security.

[01:22:29] Luke: I don't even know-- I used to be a musician. I wasn't a singer, but even when I was a kid, I had so many songs memorized, you know? Dude, I cannot memorize one song. I have lyric sheets downstairs for songs I'm trying to learn. I can't memorize them. I have to look at the paper every time. It's weird.

[01:22:48] Oto: It's a thing. But yeah, you have that in your memory, and that's the wallet, bro. That's the cold storage device. So yeah, it's just about knowing the different levels and how to properly store and knowing what you're going to do at any given moment so that you're not just leaving in the exchange.

[01:23:06] Luke: Got it. Okay.

[01:23:07] Oto: That's the trap.

[01:23:08] Luke: Okay, got it. And then explain what money is.

[01:23:17] Oto: So there is no money.

[01:23:19] Luke: From a legal standpoint, because I think many of us still don't understand. When we see numbers on our Chase account or we open our wallet and we have some federal reserve notes, we think like, that's so much money I have. But I think you might have a different answer.

[01:23:32] Oto: Yeah. So facts, there is no money. Money according to UCC is gold and silver coins. So what we're dealing with here is negotiable instruments. We're dealing with debt. So the best analogy I've given about this is-- and you said profit and loss sheet, and I'm like, "Oh, he's not going to like this analogy."

[01:23:52] But our reality is a balance sheet. If we were dealing with real money, it would be a profit and loss sheet, because we'd be dealing with real money that you use to buy stuff. And then there's expenses, and then there's a difference. But because we're not dealing with real money, we're in a balance sheet. We're just numbers going on one side of the ledger to the other side of the ledger.

[01:24:12] So you got assets on one side, and you got liabilities on the other side. Asset side is the private sector. So asset side is a private sector that's valuation. So on a balance sheet, that's not money. That's the valuation of the asset compared to what you owe on it.

[01:24:31] So then that creates the balance, or compared to the liabilities that the company has. And it always balances out. It has to balance out at the end. So asset side, private sector. Liability side is a public sector. Because we're not dealing with real money, we're dealing with negotiable instruments, everything we do on the liability side happens in the private and vice versa.

[01:24:54] It's one affects the other. What I believe has happened is when the reserve was created in 1913, when the gold standard was removed in 1933, and then when the-- I'm sorry, not gold standard, but the gold was collected in 1933 through the Executive Order 2106.

[01:25:17] And then in 1972, it was Richard Nixon. He eliminated the gold standard. And so since then, you can go look at the inflation rate of the dollar. It was just huge increase since the '70s. And especially since 2001. And we all know why. This is probably going to be a good thing to say.

[01:25:44] So what justifies the creation of currency? And I think this is a big one because what most people believe, and I think that it's like a ancient or ancestral trauma that we all have. If I go to the bank and I take a loan, I pay it back because they gave me their money. And so that's what we all believe.

[01:26:04] We believe we go to the bank and then the bankers like, "Okay, I'll reach into my pocket, and then here's some money. And you better give me that back with interest." That's what we believe is happening. If we had real money, that would be the case, but that's not what's happening.

[01:26:20] When we go to the bank, our signatures, our performance is going to justify the bank or allow them to justify to create new currency in that instance. So when you see it in those terms, then you see that the value is actually flowing from me. Whether I know it or not, my performance is creating currency every single day.

[01:26:42] Luke: That's a huge hurdle to get over the brainwashing that we are creditors, not debtors in the way the system is set up, as you described.

[01:26:52] Oto: It's a huge one.

[01:26:53] Luke: That's so hard to get your head around.

[01:26:55] Oto: No, no. You know the next level to that spiritually? I've been talking to my Christian brothers at my men's group that I go to, and I'm like, if you really go deeper into this, it's satanic. It's satanism to practice this type of capitalism. What we've normalized as being the right-- it's just business. All that mindset, that type of mindset is satanic. It's the exact inversion of a toroidal system, which is godly in nature.

[01:27:27] Luke: Wow. Usury. Yeah. Isn't it in the Bible that Jesus talk shit about usury or something?

[01:27:35] Oto: Sure. Yeah, man. I don't know if I want to go down in this road.

[01:27:43] Luke: Those are the best roads to go down. The minute a guest says that, I'm like, "We're going down that one. That's the one."

[01:27:49] Oto: Okay, so if you look at the history of money, a lot of people go back to Romans. They were the first ones to make currencies. That's not true. You can go back further. Money originally was a bartering system of animals. So labor would be put into animals, and then the animals were used to trade.

[01:28:13] How did that start? It's biblical. So when the-- what do you call that? Yeah, the Jewish people, at that time-- this was Old Testament-- you could not speak to God unless you went through the tabernacle. And you can only speak to God through one of the priests that would then go into the tabernacle. And there was this whole process that you had to go through to then go to the ark, the Ark of the Covenant to speak to God.

[01:28:47] Until Jesus, that was the only way to speak to God. When he came in, he tore the veil. Now we can speak to God directly. But before Jesus came in, it turned into a business, this process. Because right in the beginning, the first thing you do is you have to give a sacrifice of a lamb, an animal, or a goat. And then you do the rest.

[01:29:13] This movement, I think, became a little bit commercialized, let's call it, or industrialized, where in the temples you had the butchers essentially working alongside the priests to create new cattle to be able to sell, and then both of them would benefit from it.

[01:29:32] And so they turned that into-- and you talk about the meat industry too, on top of that. Oh, you want to go down that road? It's all connected. It's all connected. And actually, there's this documentary that-- I didn't help in this documentary, but I was part of it for a while. And then we separated because he wanted to do it a different way. But have you heard of Cowspiracy?

[01:29:58] Luke: Mm-mm.

[01:29:59] Oto: Kameron Waters. And then I forgot the other guy's name. They made a Cowspiracy, Seaspiracy. So then they made Christspiracy. It's not what you think. It's not about Christianism, the Christianity. It's about the big thing of it. And this is spoiler alert. I don't know if you're going to watch it or not. Little spoiler. Very tiny.

[01:30:20] Luke: You can spoil it.

[01:30:21] Oto: Okay. So what he said in the documentary is basically they found out through research that that moment where Jesus goes to the temple and flips the tables and starts whipping all the people and say, "How dare you make my house into a den of thieves?"

[01:30:37] And that was the translation, den of thieves. And I think over the-- and this is what I learned in church, is that he was talking about doing business inside the church. How dare you? The actual translation though, if you look deeper into it, and this is what they found out, is how dare you make my house into a dent of murders?

[01:31:00] Why? Because the money that they were using was the killing of the cows and the animals. So he was there pissed off at the killing that was happening. Now, what was the effects of that? This is where I'm like, maybe he knew or didn't, but it was like affecting their economy. And that's why they were like, "Kill this guy." Dead.

[01:31:22] So yeah, if you really go biblical with it, it's deep. It's deep, ingrained into our bodies like this. The concept of I put labor out to get something that is going to bring me value, that's a very old concept, very clear old concept. And what's happened now is that we are doing the same thing.

[01:31:47] We're acting the same way and performing the same way, but with unconditional orders to pay and unconditional promises to pay. Things that we can create ourselves by doing zero work. Just like a flick of the wrist.

[01:32:01] Luke: That's crazy.

[01:32:03] Oto: So that emotion that people feel with taking a loan and have to pay it back, and I have to do this thing, it's like we have to process that and let that go. Because that's not the case. And that's hard.

[01:32:16] Luke: I think it was probably Brandon Joe Williams, I think, who's been on the show-- you're familiar with him, I'm sure-- where he broke down what happens when you go get a auto loan or a mortgage that the lender, the minute you sign for it, you just created those funds.

[01:32:39] The lender's already been paid the full term of the loan, including the interest. So they just got paid and then you pay them again, even though they already went to the Federal Reserve window or whatever and already got the currency that was created by you signing. How would you break that down?

[01:33:01] Oto: Yeah, so the dealership has a bank that they work with. The bank gets the application, they pay the dealership, and then it's not with the bank at that point. But that's exactly what's happening. There's a, I forgot what it's called. It's a rule or a act or something, but it's like the slide over rule.

[01:33:21] As soon as you sign the agreement and you slide it over, that is you transferring the security and going-- it's like cash. Here's some cash. And he's like, "Sure. You're just giving it to me? All right." And what determines that is how you performed. So performance dictates jurisdiction. That's the key.

[01:33:41] Doesn't matter what amount of paperwork you do or what amount of structuring you do. If you don't know thyself and know how to perform in your body, you will fall back into the traps. You'll self-implicate, and that's the matrix.

[01:34:08] So when you go to the bank and you sit in front of this clerk, they create the application, and then they hand it over to you. There's a number on the paper. And then what do we all do? We just sign it. We just put our signature on there. That's called a blank endorsement.

[01:34:23] As soon as you do that and you slide it over, that turns into a security. That turns into a unconditional promise to pay, which has value. Go look at your dollar, your $10 or $20. It's a promissory note, AKA an unconditional promise to pay.

[01:34:40] So as soon as you slide it over, the clerk has no idea. They're just like, "Application. All right. Thank you." And then they slide it over to their private side, to the private sector side. So every bank organization, or every bank corporation structure has a trust side, that they hand over the securities to. That is who has access to the securities window, to the discount window to be able to sell the security.

[01:35:04] Luke: Ah, okay. Got it.

[01:35:05] Oto: Now, what I've learned recently is that when they sell the security, they're selling it into a pool of securities. It's not like they're selling it to a specific bank. They're selling it into a pool. So then they get paid two to three times the dollar value of the paper immediately, and to the full term of whatever it is that's on the paper.

[01:35:26] And then any bank can go into this pool and buy the debts, buy the debt notes. That's why if you have a mortgage and then you go pay your mortgage and it's another bank, they're like, "What happened here?" Like, yeah, we sold many times before you got here.

[01:35:41] So as soon as they sell it, they get paid in currency and valuation, because you have to balance out both sides. So you get the deposit of the valuation as well as the currency to balance out on your side. And then they create the allegation. So they get paid, they put it in the bank, in their piggy bank, and then they send you another allegation.

[01:36:03] A statement, if you look at the Blacks Law meaning of it, there's also a meaning of allegation. I'm allegating that you owe me. And so they're like, "Let's send this and see what happens." And then what do we do? We agreed to the new contract. And they're like, "Sure." And then now we're in a new contract because the first one's already eliminated.

[01:36:26] Luke: So say you have a 20,000-dollar car loan and you get your statement. It's never negative, that amount. You know what I mean? Even if you just look at a statement, it doesn't make sense. It should be negative, like that's what you owe. But it's not.

[01:36:46] Oto: Oh, actually no.

[01:36:47] Luke: Do you know what I'm saying?

[01:36:48] Oto: I know what you're saying because you're thinking of a bank statement. Think of a credit card statement. Credit card statements is positive, positive, positive, positive, positive.

[01:36:57] Luke: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm trying to articulate.

[01:37:00] Oto: So it's the same thing. It's a credit card statement. So it's like a positive thing. So this is the liability side. But that was already paid by the asset side, and that's a brand new contract. So the statement you get is brand new.

[01:37:15] Luke: Every statement is a new contract.

[01:37:17] Oto: Every statement is a new contract. Yes. In and of itself. The coupon determines the value of the minimum payment. That's the value of the thing. So you can change that and put a different value because that's a negotiable instrument.

[01:37:34] But yeah, yeah, every single one is a new contract, new contract, new contract. So any moment you can make that shift and change. But yeah, the comparison that I give to history, think of when electricity first came out. They didn't have products for electricity.

[01:37:53] They didn't have fridges and toasters and all these things that we're used to around us for electricity. So you know what they did? A lot of people don't know this, but they had these stores with all these products. They weren't selling any of it. They were saying, "Hey, come get a free product. All you got to do is sign up for the electricity and pay a monthly fee."

[01:38:16] And then they would sign up, create the negotiable instrument, and then they would give them these free products. Go use the electricity now. That's the same thing that's happening with cars. The collateral is not the car. The car's the gift. The collateral is the negotiable instrument that you handed over.

[01:38:33] Luke: Whoa. I wonder what's happening to all these people that I was seeing on social media a few months ago that were going into the dealership and doing the Brandon Joe without recourse UCC whatever.

[01:38:45] Oto: I almost did it. I was just--

[01:38:46] Luke: And walk walking out with a car. You don't see the other side of that, if there's litigation, repossession. I wonder how that's working out for people that did that.

[01:38:54] Oto: I've been following along with it.

[01:38:55] Luke: You have?

[01:38:56] Oto: Yeah. A lot of people had their car repossessed, which I figured because you can't teach people how to do this thing if they don't know themselves. They're not going to know how to perform when they come collecting. Because I do believe that all of these systems that we've gotten used to are in a momentum right now.

[01:39:14] They're in this, like, it's been going for so long in the way that it is, it's going to take time for it to slow down the automations.
[01:39:20] Luke: It's the mental programming.

[01:39:25] Oto: That's a huge part of it. 90% of it, I would say, it's just the programming, man. It's in there.

[01:39:30] Luke: Yeah. When you go to the bank and you take a loan, if you're an integrous person, you think, okay, they just gave me $100,000. I need to pay that off every month. And hey, no problem. You guys want your cut? You get your 10% interest. Cool. Because the only reason we do that is because we're good people and we don't understand what's really happening. Otherwise, everyone would be like, "Eff you."

[01:39:52] Oto: Yeah, I'm out.

[01:39:54] Luke: Everyone would be just discharging on the spot. You know what I mean?

[01:39:57] Oto: Yeah.

[01:39:58] Luke: So with the free car people, have you seen success cases too, where people are able to stand on their own, square, so to speak, and hold their ground legally?

[01:40:10] Oto: Yeah. Because they recognize who they were. Honestly, one of them is-- remember that-- I forgot his name. He was here with us and his girlfriend.

[01:40:17] Luke: Oh yeah, yeah.

[01:40:18] Oto: And he has five cars. And he is doing it. So it's definitely possible. But again, I think the key is, can you stand in your square? Do you know yourself enough to where when you receive the letter, when you do get a call or you know, you have to speak to an officer, that you know how to perform in that moment that it won't move forward.

[01:40:44] Talk about, am I in control of my reality? It's those moments that will tell you that. If you feel like you got sucked into something and like, ah, I'm going to jail. Well, you weren't aware that was the moment. So yeah, again, this is why I repeat over and over the importance of recreating that relationship specifically to the energy of exchange. Because I think that's the factor that keeps us mostly stuck in this matrix. The glue that's like, I keep getting stuck, like a rat trap or something.

[01:41:23] Luke: Is part of that getting clear on the value that you have to offer the world?

[01:41:31] Oto: That's a huge one because if you don't feel that you have anything to give, I hear often, "What do I have to say?" One of my students, like, what do I have to say? What do I have to teach that anybody is wanting to hear?

[01:41:47] I think that we just need to surround ourselves with people that will say certain things and create that in us. But what I often say to my students is we are all strategically positioned to help the person we once were.

[01:42:00] Luke: Ooh, that's good.

[01:42:01] Oto: You can help Luke Storey two years ago, 10 years ago. So there's a ton of people out there that are Luke Storey a year ago, two years ago, 10 years ago.

[01:42:13] Luke: I felt bad for them, especially the 30 years ago. Well, they're in a tough spot. Yeah, that's a really great perspective though. I think that's something that I identified pretty early on in recovery, because you come in just broken. You talk about not having anything to give or anything to offer, but if you make it 24 hours, it's over. Dude, you're like a guru mystic compared to the person who can't make it one hour. Your 24 hours is huge to someone who's at minute 30.

[01:42:49] Oto: Yeah.

[01:42:51] Luke: That's something that was really helpful to me in coming to understand the value you have to offer.

[01:42:58] Oto: But that right there is so important because if we don't create that for ourselves, first of all, I don't even know how to imagine that. That I'm not worthy? Who's telling me that? Myself? But having that first layer to then-- why is that important?

[01:43:17] Because the society has normalized this need to look outside of ourselves for the thing that is valuable. Ride that rollercoaster. You can't control it. You can't control that. And the systems around us have facilitated that, to give up control. Especially since 2001, we're here to protect you. Daddy government here to protect you.

[01:43:42] Luke: Yeah. If you ever hear those words, we're here to help you, from the government, you better run fast.

[01:43:46] Oto: I think we're at this point in life now and in this reality that with all the tools that are available to us between blockchain law, the different technologies that are starting to pop up, like AI, we have all the tools available that we can create our own value systems and reinternalize that. Is it difficult? Yes, but I think long-term it's probably the only path for you to take back control of your life, in all layers of that.

[01:44:20] Luke: I think right now it really is. You could say this in any time period, but it's very true right now that it's the best of times and it's the worst of times. The duality. That's the thing. As these old, corrupt, parasitic systems, these succubus and all the institutions of finance and education and medicine, ugh, it's like this dying beast that's just grasping for its last breath.

[01:44:51] And it's scary, and it's dark and gnarly. As gnarly as that is, there's people like you that are like, oh, hey, there's this whole other way to be and live and operate in the world. It's awesome. You have like infinite potential. At the same time, which is hard for some of us to grok depending on where you are.

[01:45:10] Oto: Man, I have this whole fear--

[01:45:11] Luke: In your perception. But it's like if you gear your perception toward, yeah, a lot of darkness, a lot of bad shit, but because duality is arranged the way it is, the scales are always equal. So as gnarly as the parasite class gets, there's an equal or greater number of people that are operating from a place of love.

[01:45:32] Oto: And this is so great conversation because I have this theory of what might potentially be happening. So right now we have his world. So you have the world, public sector and the normalized behavior and politically correct stuff in that world. That's the size.

[01:45:49] And then you got this other world, the private sector, the people that are aware. They're waking up. It's a little tiny right now, but it's growing. And I think that this world will start to get smaller and smaller and smaller. This one will start to get bigger, bigger and bigger in awareness, perspective.

[01:46:04] And then I think as well, energetically in our bodies, our cells will start to speed up. So the more this world grows, we will literally be increasing the frequency of our cells on a cellular level, in density, releasing density. Where in this world they're going to be denser and denser and denser and compressed into themselves, like an implosion of on a cellular level.

[01:46:30] Luke: Totally.

[01:46:30] Oto: To the point where we will be able to, us, the higher frequency would be able to walk around in this reality and see the lower frequency, but they can't see us.

[01:46:42] Luke: Cloak invisibility.

[01:46:43] Oto: An actual cloak of it. It'll be like, can't even see.

[01:46:47] Luke: One of the positive things that I see happening right now is in the left versus right false paradigm. It seems like many people on both sides of that equation are realizing they've been duped.

[01:47:03] Oto: Yeah, it's happening now.

[01:47:05] Luke: Yeah. Which is really cool to see. That's like, no, you guys. It's not me against you. It's all of us against them. Not that I like to think of having enemies, but you know, call it the state, the parasitic class, the elites, whatever you want to say, that they've been pitting us against one another forever.

[01:47:27] And I think people are starting to wake up to that, especially with the abject failure of Donald Trump and the way he's doing things that I think a lot of people that were even centrist were banking on something changing because of him. It's just like--

[01:47:42] Oto: Sorry.

[01:47:44] Luke: Yeah. Same face, different mask. And it's becoming really obvious to many people right now that no one is coming to save us. That we have to build our own world that is one we want to live in. And we have to do it in cooperation, collaboration with like-minded people.

[01:48:02] Whether it comes to your physical health, your financial health, your understanding of commerce, finances, the stuff that you teach. It's like, dude, it doesn't matter who is the king. You're still going to be a peasant if you believe in kings. The minute we stop believing that you need a king to run things, then no one's a peasant.

[01:48:24] Oto: It's like we got to let go of the hierarchy, let go of the daddy government hierarchy, and see ourselves as men and women in plain level. We're all on the same level. We all have the same stuff. I would even take it a step further with-- because I hear that a lot, like them versus us. Who's them? I've been asked that question before, like, who's them?

[01:48:48] Good point. I don't know. What would that mean to me? I think it's a mindset. So I'm going back to like the divisive capitalism, wartime capitalism. That type of mindset is facilitating and perpetuating the plans of these groups, of these families.

[01:49:06] So it might have started with a few, like the families that created these plans, but right now, I would argue-- so if you were to make a box and it's like the top 1% and then the other 99% on the bottom.

[01:49:20] I don't think it's like that. I think it's more like this, where the mindset of the top 1% goes from those that are the richest all the way down to the poorest. And that is the enemy. The enemy is the mindset. It's not any physical living, breathing men or woman.

[01:49:37] I would even say at those levels, the really rich people, the newer generations are stepping up, and they were indoctrinated too by their families. And they were taught to do things a certain way. And I do see, even on those big families, certain people that are part of those families wanting to do something completely different or something not as PC as they would like it to be.

[01:50:03] Luke: Yeah, yeah. I think part of that mindset is, I don't know if humanity's possible of overcoming this, but it's statism. It's this belief that we're born with that tells us that we as humans need to be managed by someone other than ourselves. That society needs some authority in order for it to function.

[01:50:35] I don't believe that's true. I think there's a natural equilibrium that human beings would find that there's more good in the world than there is what we call bad, and that you actually don't need any hierarchical-- what's the word? Hierarchical. How do you say?

[01:50:55] Oto: Hierarchical.

[01:50:56] Luke: Hierarchical system of authority in order for things to work. Because there's more good people than there are bad. So if someone's doing something wrong and harming another person based on premise of common law, golden rule, there's enough good people that are going to stop them.

[01:51:15] Oto: Very quickly.

[01:51:15] Luke: You know what I'm saying? It's like the reason we see so much evil and suffering in the world is because we outsource our authority to some imaginary figure. And generation over generation, we're brainwashed into thinking we need this system in order for things to keep running. When the evidence is, to the contrary, it's not working.

[01:51:36] We still have war, we still have poverty. We still have famine. Still have violence. It's like all of the things we think we're being protected from are actually being perpetuated exponentially by the people who are supposed to be protecting us from it. They're the ones doing it. And we're like, "Yeah, but no, if we vote right.

[01:51:56] Oto: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[01:51:57] Luke: Bro, there's no voting our way out of this, I think.

[01:52:02] Oto: I have a great analogy for that.

[01:52:04] Luke: Okay.

[01:52:05] Oto: So think of it like BDSM. You know BDSM?

[01:52:08] Luke: Yes, I'm familiar.

[01:52:09] Oto: [Inaudible] all that stuff.

[01:52:09] Luke: Yeah.

[01:52:10] Oto: The only reason that works is because you sign an agreement. That's why you can't claim assault on someone and point like, oh, they beat me up. It's like, no, but you, you agree to it, bro. That's what's happening in our current system. All the individuals that protest, that go and do protests, that's a reaffirmation that they have control over you. That is you going to your BDSM daddy and getting beat up and liking it. And that just reinforces them to want to do it harder.

[01:52:41] So protesting, honestly, I truly believe, is redundant. It's not going to do anything. What will make change is your performance in relationship to the entity. How you relate to it will then determine jurisdiction. How you perform in that relationship will determine jurisdiction. The protesting of itself, I think that's a scam that they pushed.

[01:53:07] Luke: You could just nullify all of your contracts with the entities that you're protesting.

[01:53:13] Oto: Yeah, yeah. The flick of a wrists and you're done. Why protest? Why waste that--

[01:53:17] Luke: Yeah. And then it makes their behavior irrelevant. Jurisdiction is everything. It's like, why do you even care what the rulers of the world are doing if you didn't sign up for their rules? They might be that guy's rule. They're not mine. I didn't agree to any contract with them. It sounds simple, but as we know, there are ways to extricate yourself.

[01:53:41] Oto: And it's so funny because-- I talk about this with Ashley all the time, my fiancé. I start explaining it, and then she'll say a word, and I'm like, "Actually, it means this." And she's like, "You're just being technical. Stop being technical." And I'm like, "Oh, I get where you're coming from."

[01:53:58] Because I used to be a person that would like-- that was my pet peeve with people. Just speak. Now that I've gone down this road on law and learning about words and the frequency of words and word magic, and that it's not just about definitions, it's about all the meanings that a word can have, oh, I can't help myself now. Every word I use, every word I hear, I'm like, "There's three meanings coming in or five meanings coming in."

[01:54:25] Luke: I've noticed that too. When someone says a word like person or individual, even money. So it's just like, oh, the money. I go, the thing you're calling money is actually not money. It's trippy. The law space is really cool like that. It's such a psychological, emotional, spiritual paradigm shift.

[01:54:46] I was talking about this on a show the other day. I've noticed there's a difference when I get a letter in the mail that's sent to my all caps name. I didn't even used to notice it. It's just like, some mail has it, some doesn't.

[01:54:58] If someone's trying to contract with you, it's going to have that. But now I go to the mailbox and I see one of those, I'm like, "Ha ha, who's that letter to? That's not to me. That's to an entity that I actually now own and control." It's like if they sent--

[01:55:13] Oto: And you have no obligation to do anything.

[01:55:16] Luke: Yeah

[01:55:16] Oto: You have a choice, but you have no obligation.

[01:55:17] Luke: Yeah. I don't have it anymore, but I used to have an LLC called Luke Storey Inc. And if I would get a letter to that, I wouldn't see that as a letter to me. I'd be like, oh, that's a letter to my business.

[01:55:28] Oto: That's smart. You're already on the vein of that one.

[01:55:31] Luke: Now I'm starting to see-- I got a letter related to jury duty recently, and it was like, Luke Carlson Storey, full name, all caps. I was like, "Ah, you're not talking to me. I'm just a flesh and blood man on the land here." So let's see what offer you're sending to me to contract with you. Whoa, we would like you to come in and perform for us based on jurisdiction and obligation that doesn't exist and isn't real in my particular case.

[01:56:02] Oto: Dude, what you just said is like-- if you have that awareness of being able to create a distinction between the physical living, breathing body to the dead registered entity version of you, that is already 90% of the work of performance, is just knowing that distinction.

[01:56:19] Luke: Yeah, yeah. It's powerful. It's powerful.

[01:56:22] Oto: I would say the next thing would be to-- one thing that I practice that I teach my students is look at every transaction as a trust agreement. Who's the beneficiary? Who's the trustee? Who's the grantor? Because then when you know who you are, then you know how to perform. And you won't get stuck in a trap. Do that with everything. Like, at a red light or a stop sign or something, and then try to really think about it.

[01:56:46] Luke: That's cool. The trust thing-- oh man, I wish, wish we had more time. Trusts are super cool. That is an amazing spiritual concept in and of itself.

[01:56:57] Oto: Yeah. One of the things we do incorporate into the work is the combination of trust law, contract law, and now blockchain law. So we're talking about use cases for blockchain. You know what one big one is that is just now starting to take hold, is the officiation of documents.

[01:57:20] The officiation of express contracts. So that's just starting to now become a thing. Up until recently, the low-hanging fruit was with NFTs, non-fungible tokens, was artwork, music, short videos. And then somebody had the idea to like, "Hey, why aren't we using this to officiate documents?"

[01:57:46] Luke: Right. Oh, do you know-- what's his name? He has an Indian name. He's in the law space.

[01:57:54] Oto: Govinda?

[01:57:54] Luke: Yeah, yeah. He made an NFT out of his affidavit or something. So it's like, it's permanently out there. There's no censoring that particular filing. It's public.

[01:58:11] Oto: There's three main parts to this specific maxim that has to do with giving notice. You have to be first, that it has to be in a public forum, and-- there's one other thing that I cannot remember, but basically the blockchain is the space to that fits the maxim of law to officiate contracts, to officiate the expression of agreements.

[01:58:36] So there's no need to officiate through registration because we know registration is an abandonment of property. So instead of officiating through their registered forms, which is their copyrighted versions, you create your own trust, your own contracts, and then you just officiate on the blockchain. And then it's a link that you can just reference anytime you want.

[01:58:57] Luke: Right. And it's also a way to permanently enshrine, legally speaking, precedents. Right?

[01:59:07] Oto: Mm-hmm. It's a date and time stamp.

[01:59:09] Luke: Yeah. No one can ever pretend like that filing, sue, claim, affidavit, whatever doesn't exist or isn't valid. It's there. It's proof.

[01:59:17] Oto: There's already precedent on this by the way. Courts have already used the blockchain many times five years or so.

[01:59:26] Luke: Wow.

[01:59:25] Oto: Yeah.

[01:59:26] Luke: That's dope.

[01:59:27] Oto: So it's already being used like that. We just have to start actually using it ourselves. Because then there's no reason to officiate even in UCC at that point. Really. You could, I guess, to add more value to it, but yeah, you wouldn't not have to.

[01:59:42] Luke: That's badass. All right, guys. lukestorey.com/crypto. You're going to find Oto's course there. Remember your code is LUKE. We'll put all of that in the show description. Last question for you is a three-parter, my friend. Who have been three influences or teachers in your life that have informed who you are and how you roll in the world?

[02:00:07] Oto: I am going to say number one was when I was 12 years old, the children's pastor at my church. I was a bad kid at that age and stole from the church and got caught by him. And instead of pressing charges, he asked me to work with him in the children's ministry, and I worked with him for 12 years. Whoa. I just almost cried. I haven't talked about that in a while.

[02:00:32] Luke: Damn. Oof.

[02:00:33] Oto: Yeah, he's a good dude.

[02:00:34] Luke: Thank God you had a chance to make that restitution. That'd be a bummer piece of karma to be sitting on.

[02:00:41] Oto: It was a 50-50, man. You could've totally just--

[02:00:45] Luke: You got karma from stealing, but stealing from your church is probably a few notches worse, I would imagine.

[02:00:51] Oto: I worked 12 years to work it off, so I promise. He was number one. Number two would be, I'm going to say my EMDR therapist. She's the one that helped me process a lot of my trauma, and I really wouldn't know myself if it wasn't for the work that we did together for-- I saw her every week for two years.

[02:01:13] Luke: Wow.

[02:01:14] Oto: Yeah. Really impacted me. I don't know if you know what EMDR.

[02:01:18] Luke: I have a funny EMDR story. I tried everything, dude. I got a lot of broken parts that have needed put back together, so when I heard about-- I always get it confused with like the techno music, EDM or whatever, EDMR. She was out in Culver City, and I went I think once or twice, and I was like, "This is pretty cool. I get the subconscious mind, what's happening."

[02:01:40] And then in the very early days when I first started experimenting with microdosing ketamine, not for a party drug, but do meditation and things like that, I've heard it shuts down the default mode network, and you can be very susceptible in a positive way.

[02:01:58] And it's used for PTSD and stuff. So one day I drove over there and I was like, I'm going to take a little bit of ketamine before the thing to really let her work sink in to open up the subconscious mind. And maybe I can exponentially improve the results of this. I was very inexperienced. I didn't understand how ketamine works.

[02:02:17] I took a couple of sprays of it and walked in there. Halfway to the door, realized like, oh, I can't even walk. But as I recall, I didn't even say anything to her. I think I just tried to play it off. But I'm sure I was acting very strange. So I would just add as a disclaimer, if you're interested in that type of therapy, I would highly advise against trying to combine it with ketamine in an unassisted manner.

[02:02:42] Oto: It's such a potent practice, EMDR. I don't think you need the ketamine.

[02:02:50] Luke: Yeah. I'm just like, "I'm extra." It's just like, well, if this thing's good and this thing's good, should stack them, obviously.

[02:02:57] Oto: The biohacking in you came in all strong.

[02:02:59] Luke: Yeah. I like to tinker. I'm an experimenter, and sometimes it's cool because I can experiment with things and then tell people like, "Yeah, I tried that. Not safe. Bad idea. Negative results."

[02:03:13] Oto: I put my hand on the fire. Don't do it.

[02:03:15] Luke: Yeah, exactly.

[02:03:16] Oto: You can if you want.

[02:03:17] Luke: Exactly. Yeah. But I think that was the last time I went probably because I was embarrassed that I was acting like a zombie. All right. Who's the third?

[02:03:24] Oto: And the third would be my dad.

[02:03:27] Luke: Oh, cool.

[02:03:28] Oto: Yeah, I don't know why I left him last. I think because it's been more recent, the impact in my life. I love my dad. Grew up with him. Obviously, I grew up with him. So the relationship we had growing up was almost like a culty. I don't even know how to explain it other than that word.

[02:03:53] It was healthy, but he was my only friend, my only friend. Until I was probably 22. I called my dad the first time I had sex. When I lost my virginity, the first thing I did was call, "Daddy, you're not going to believe it."

[02:04:08] Luke: I hope you weren't 22.

[02:04:10] Oto: I was 21.

[02:04:11] Luke: Really?

[02:04:12] Oto: Yes.

[02:04:13] Luke: Poor guy. Damn. There was a lot of fun to be had between 16 and 21.

[02:04:17] Oto: I grew up Pentecostal, Christian, and just in church all the time.

[02:04:20] Luke: That would make sense. With your dynamic with your dad and you not trusting other people to that capacity, was it difficult to come here from Brazil and assimilate? Did you speak Portuguese when you were a kid and have to learn English and were you the weird foreigner kid and all that trip that some immigrants experienced?

[02:04:42] Oto: Yeah, I was seven when I came. I knew Portuguese, but I barely knew Portuguese. I learned English in seven months. I absorbed it very quickly because I was so young. But for the first two years I was in the US, they put me in ESOL. What does ESOL mean? English as a second language there.

[02:05:02] Luke: Oh, okay.

[02:05:04] Oto: I was in ESOL, but I could speak English though. But they're like, "But you don't know the grammar. You don't know how to read, write." And I'm like, "Okay." So for two years I was in ESOL before I actually went into the regular rooms.

[02:05:15] Oto: This was in Florida?

[02:05:16] Luke: In Florida.

[02:05:17] Luke: Oh, okay. Was part of your difficulty in the assimilation, or was it unrelated to that? Imagine Florida's pretty multicultural. It's not like you're moving to freaking Montana as the only Brazilian kid in school or something.

[02:05:30] Oto: Yeah, no, there was definitely other Brazilians there. Honestly, no. I Americanized very quickly. It was not hard. And I want to say that a huge reason that I have the traumas I have is because of that move that happened when I was seven years old. Because I wanted to fit in.

[02:05:49] And so I allowed myself to lose myself to be able to be whatever I needed to be to make everybody happy and just always like me. So that's a huge part of the trauma that I created, was how quickly I assimilated. And my mom was very strong about speaking Portuguese at home. So I didn't lose Portuguese. I didn't lose--

[02:06:12] Luke: You still speak it?

[02:06:12] Oto: Yeah.

[02:06:13] Luke: Oh, you're so lucky. It's my favorite language.

[02:06:15] Oto: Oh really?

[02:06:16] Luke: Oh yeah. I used to go to Brazil a bit. I studied pretty hard. I actually went to like the Beverly Hills Language Institute. I took a Portuguese class. I guess they were on CDs probably at this time. I got decent enough where the last time I went to Brazil, I didn't have to speak English. I could communicate enough with Portuguese. But then when I stopped going to Brazil, I totally forgot all of it. It really is like you use it or you lose it kind of thing.

[02:06:48] Literally, I'll meet someone from Brazil and I'm like, [Foreign Language]. I can't even remember-- you know what I'm saying? I can't remember the basic [Inaudible]. The basic shit is totally gone. I feel like it would take a full immersion back into living somewhere to be able to pick it up.

[02:07:05] But I think it's just the most beautiful language. I love it.

[02:07:09] Oto: It's like [Inaudible].

[02:07:10] Oto: Yeah. It's so awesome and sexy. It's just so cool. It's like French and Spanish. Funny thing that used to happen in Brazil is-- I'm okay in Spanish. I can definitely roll in a Spanish speaking country with no English, even though I'm sure it's very crude. But I can get by.

[02:07:27] But the funny thing is, in Brazil, Brazilian people can pretty much understand you if you speak Spanish. But then they'll speak back to you in Portuguese. So your understanding of Spanish does no good on the listening part. Only on the speaking part. So I learned that quickly.

[02:07:43] I was like, "Yeah, there's a crossover here, but it's only one way." So I think I'd be badass and speak a little Spanish. They're like, "I understand you, and here's a slew of Portuguese that you're not going to understand it all."

[02:07:55] Oto: Gosh, I feel like the learning language is going to go away too because of AI. They have the headphones now. You can just give it to somebody and speak them in real time.

[02:08:03] Luke: Right, right. One of my goals that is one of those nebulous goals, I really want to learn how to sing. That's one. Because it terrifies me. But I really want to learn Spanish for real. After speaking basically Tijuana street slang my whole adult life for reasons we don't have time to go into, when I speak Spanish to someone from Spain, they're like, "Ew."

[02:08:26] Oto: Yeah. Not the same.

[02:08:28] Luke: Super ghetto Spanish.

[02:08:29] Oto: I learned that quickly in Florida because I was taking Spanish as my language in high school. And I would start speaking with my Cuban friends, my Colombian friends, and they're like, no, that's Spain, Spaniard.

[02:08:40] Luke: Right, right.

[02:08:41] Luke: This is a different type of Spanish, but yeah.

[02:08:43] Luke: But yeah, I would really like to learn the grammar to be able to speak. Because that's a beautiful language too. And it's really useful in America. A lot of people don't speak English. They speak Spanish.

[02:08:54] All right, dude. I hope everyone comes and takes your course. It sounds like it would be good for me. Every time I sit down with someone and they have like a cool course, I'm like, "I'm totally going to take your course." And then they leave and I'm like, "Dude, you don't have time. You can't take five courses."

[02:09:10] But yours is one of those where I'm like, oh, I really want to do this. Can I carve out the time?" So I encourage people to come check it out. Obviously you're approaching things from the metaphysical, which I think is the most important when you're dealing with any of this. And then down to the base technical level.

[02:09:29] Oto: I'm here. I create the space. I create a covenant with every student. I show up for my half of the responsibilities, and all I ask is that you guys show up for your half of the responsibilities. As long as you do that, you will get something out of this.

[02:09:42] Luke: Awesome.

[02:09:43] Oto: There's 240 students that have really got a lot out of this.

[02:09:46] Luke: Epic, dude. Congratulations. I'm glad you found your dharma. I'm glad that you're not pushing pencils anymore for a living.

[02:09:54] Oto: Never again.

[02:09:57] Luke: I can think of few jobs that would be as torturous for me as being an accountant. I would probably like be a waste management, a garbage truck guy. Actually, I know I would. I would definitely do that before sitting down, trying to work a calculator in an Excel spreadsheet. So I'm glad that you are finding your freedom. And thanks for the education today. I've learned a ton.

[02:10:19] Oto: Thank you.