272. Fix Your Digestion For Good with Gut Healing Heroes Wade Lightheart & Matt Gallant

Wade Lightheart

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Wade Lightheart and Matt Gallant from BiOptimizers talk gut health, enzymes, probiotics, some healthy things to stick up your butt, supplements that work, and what you can do to repair your gut microbiome.

Wade Lightheart is an advisor to the American Anti-Cancer Institute, certified sports nutritionist, 3-time All Natural National Bodybuilding Champion, former Mr. Universe Competitor, author of the book “Staying Alive In A Toxic World”. 

Matt Gallant is an entrepreneur, a poker champion, an ex-rock guitarist, a serial entrepreneur (who's built 13 companies in the last 20 years), and a strength and conditioning coach with a degree in kinesiology.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

All health begins in the gut, even your mental health, so today we’re learning about how to get our guts right from two of the biggest experts on gut health in the world: Wade Lightheart and Matt Gallant from BiOptimizers, an organization dedicated to helping humans shift from a sick unhealthy condition into a peak biologically optimized state.

Wade and Matt define Biologically Optimized Health as a state of existence where all of the body’s functions operate in perfect harmony. But before you start replacing the tires and tuning things to perfection, you need to make sure that your engine, your gut, isn’t about to crap out.

To help you figure out how to do that, these two provide a quick and dirty overview of our digestive systems and the underappreciated role of enzymes in them. Then we go over the results of my recent gut biome labs... and I get some, frankly, shocking truths about my current situation. But I also get some great advice for how to fix it, as well as some idea of why things broke bad in my gut biome the first place, and I hope this helps you get your own health back on the right track.

If you’re interested in focusing on your gut health after listening to this episode — and given the current state of the world, there’s never been a better time to focus on maintaining your health and your immune system — you can use the code LUKE20 to get 20% off any of the supplements at bioptimizers.com/luke.

11:00 — The origins of BiOptimizers

  • Competing as Mr. Universe, on a plant-based diet and without drugs
  • How bodybuilding wrecked the inside of Wade’s body
  • “You learned to build your body from the outside in. You have to learn how to build your body from the inside out.”
  • How they started rebuilding Wade’s digestive system
  • Finding their dharma
  • The workers in the body are the enzymes and probiotics

14:35 — Is food combining legit?

  • Or is it just the nocebo effect?
  • Nature combines proteins, fats, and carbohydrates in almost every food it makes
  • The challenge today is that we have lowered the definition of “food”
  • Hacking the digestive system
  • Superoods list Vs. Foods to avoid list
  • Viome test - test your microbiome

25:30 — Let food by thy medicine

  • It’s now just about what you’re eating but what you assimilate
  • The danger of undigested proteins

26:55 — The role of different enzymes in digestion

  • How systemic enzymes differ from digestive enzymes
  • How to improve the benefits of fasting using enzymes (and why fasting is so effective)
  • What is an enzyme?
  • We’re the only species on the planet that doesn’t eat raw food most of the time
  • You probably need to redefine what food is
  • The power of serrapeptase for removing scar tissue in your body
  • The difference between a $10 bottle of enzymes and a $100 bottle of enzymes
  • You need enzymes to get your protein, protein to get your minerals, minerals to get your vitamins

43:25 — The secret to making protein smoothies that build even more muscle

  • John Gray’s “holy grail” of protein assimilation
  • X3 Bar (use code LUKE for $50 off)
  • Do you drink the shake before, after, or during the workout?
  • A hack for making cheap cuts of meat more easily digestible

50:07 — What causes heartburn?

  • What heartburn is
  • The many hidden causes of heartburn
  • The five stages of digestion
  • How HCL (hydrocholric acid) kills sushi parasites and how to use baking soda to determine what your HCL level is
  • Supplements that help with heartburn: try Primergen-M or or Primergen-V from BiOptimizers
  • Most mineral supplements aren’t actually bioavailable

01:07:53 — The correlation between digestion, neurotransmitters, and mood

  • BiOptimizers‘s upcoming CogniBotics
  • Where cravings come from
  • What causes leaky gut and the fastest way to fix it

01:12:11 — The power of putting (some) stuff up your butt

  • Rectal ozone
  • Rectal probiotics

01:22:20 — Hiatal hernia and how to fix them

  • What is a hiatal hernia?
  • BiOptimizers’ Gluten Guardian
  • Just Thrive’s spore-based probiotics
  • Spore-based probiotics vs. other kinds of probiotics
  • What makes some probiotics live and some die when you eat them
  • We’ve lost connection with our own biofeedback — but you can nurture that connection!

01:41:45 — The results of my microbiome test 

  • My pancreas isn’t making enough enzymes
  • kApex - BiOptimizers’ mitochondrial booster
  • Panchakarma

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

[00:00:06]Luke Storey:  All right, dudes, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:06]Matt Gallant:  Great to be here. 

[00:00:07]Luke Storey:  Here with Wade and Matt. Let's do this. We've been working on this recording for a while now. Where do you—you guys live in Canada? 

[00:00:15]Wade Lightheart:  Well, I'm in Vancouver for the grand total of two more weeks, and I will be moving down to Venice Beach, California.

[00:00:23]Luke Storey:  Oh, you and—

[00:00:24] Just cleared the house today.

[00:00:24] Dude, nice. Good for you. You and all the other wellness people. I'm the only holdout that still lives in the Hollywood area. 

[00:00:29]Wade Lightheart:  You've transcended to the mountain where we have to come up to see you. 

[00:00:33]Luke Storey:  I have. This is like a Himalayan cave up here. 

[00:00:36]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. 

[00:00:37]Luke Storey:  If we have time, I'll show you the Zen den. That's my real like man cave up there. 

[00:00:40]Wade Lightheart:  Oh, I'm excited about that. 

[00:00:41]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it’s right with the BioCharger and the sauna and the Joovv and all the beautiful things, you know. 

[00:00:46]Wade Lightheart:  I love it.

[00:00:46]Luke Storey:  I spent a lot more time up there. So-

[00:00:49]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, I'm Canadian, but I escaped the cold and the taxes and moved to Panama 15 years ago. 

[00:00:53]Luke Storey:  Are you serious? 

[00:00:54]Matt Gallant:  Yeah.

[00:00:54]Luke Storey:  You live in Panama? Word. 

[00:00:56]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. I actually just celebrated my 15th year anniversary a couple days ago.

[00:01:00]Luke Storey:  Expat vibes. And you've got to hookup on the culture to stem cells down there, too. 

[00:01:06]Matt Gallant:  That's it. 

[00:01:06]Luke Storey:  Have you ever done it? 

[00:01:07]Matt Gallant:  I haven't gone to see them yet, no. So-

[00:01:10]Luke Storey:  There's that guy, from what I understand, I forget his name.

[00:01:13]Matt Gallant:  It's the place. They do a lot of stuff there that legally, they can't do in other countries. 

[00:01:18]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:01:19]Matt Gallant:  So, if you've got serious medical issues, like I know, they have heart protocol, stuff like that, it's probably the best place to go. If you're looking more for joints or IVs, then you have a lot more options.

[00:01:29]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Cool. Good stuff. I didn't realize that. Well, I'm glad we caught you guys state side here. And we're going to jump right in and stay super focused. So, tell me how you guys get into a digestion in the first place. 

[00:01:41]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. Well, you know, it's always trying to solve a problem. So, I competed at the Mr. Universe contest. And at the time, I was trying to adapt the mediator's mentality in a bodybuilding performance diet to compete at the Mr. Universe on a plant-based diet without drugs. And that's a very tall order. And no one was doing this. This is back in 2003. So, there was no plant-based performance guys or any of that stuff. Starting to change now. And I was trying to—we were kind of figuring out. 

[00:02:11] And after the Mister universe contest, I gained 42 pounds of fat and water in 11 weeks. I literally—you know, I was able to kind of do the performance protocol at the expense of my health. And Matt will kind of talk about how we've kind of reframed of what is the optimized or biologically optimized person. But I had an opportunity to meet Dr. Michael O'Brien. And he was a phenomenal video person. I mean, he was in his 70s and he was just so vibrant. He had so much energy and he could look right through. 

[00:02:43] And I went there and I said, “I don't understand.” I said, “Look, I've got Spartan discipline. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be. I've went to what I call the cosmetic idea”, which is really what bodybuilding is. It's creating the external cosmetic level of perfection.” And I said, “And I'm a physical wreck. You know, what happened?” And he said to me, “Wade, you've learned to build the body from the outside in, but you haven't learned how to build the body from the inside out.” And what you've been doing has wrecked your digestion. 

[00:03:13] Most people, you know, later on, but I just got there faster because I was pushing so hard. And I said, “Well, what do I need to do?” And he says, “You need to completely rebuild your digestive system.” And in order to do that, I was going to have to take what I call therapeutic dosages of enzymes and probiotics and minerals and all these sorts of different things. And I did it. And it transformed my life. It worked. And not only that, I was able to take that and expand upon it. And Matt and I mentored under him and went—I remember we went to their lectures and we were just like, “We have to do this. This is kind of our dharma. And we got started in that and haven't looked back since 2004.

[00:03:57]Matt Gallant:  And one of the most useful frameworks that he gave us, which to us, we're still using, is that the workers in the body are the enzymes and the probiotics. So, all these materials, whether it's amino acids, fatty acids, glucose, vitamins and minerals, they're the building blocks. And, you know, just sharing this metaphor, imagine you're building a home. You've got the finest materials in the world, but there's nobody to put it together. Nothing's happening. You know, enzymes do 25,000 different things in the body. 

[00:04:25] So, if you're not producing enough enzymes and you don't have enough of the right gut flora, then you're not able to disassemble and reassemble amino acids in the body because, you know, if you'd think about, you know, the 7,000 peptides that activate all these different functions in our bodies. So, these are just amino acids that your body is combining. But if you’re eating the best protein source in the world, if you can't break that down, it actually becomes a toxin, which we can talk about later.

[00:04:58]Luke Storey:  Oh, you know what, it's not on my list that I want to ask you guys. Let me just ask you right now because I don't have my pen to do it for later. Do you think that paying attention to food combining is legit? 

[00:05:09]Matt Gallant:  The second guy to ask us that today. 

[00:05:11]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[00:05:12]Luke Storey:  Because I don't know if it's like a nocebo thing where I got that belief system in my subconscious, and then when I eat certain foods together, wrecks my gut and I have heartburn and all these problems. But I know some people that can eat like, you know, bacon and eggs, and then drink a big orange juice on top of it in the morning, and they're rocking and feel great. If I mix any kind of sugar or fruit, if I eat that after I ate carbs or protein or fat, it wrecks me. 

[00:05:38] And so, I don't know if that's because I believe that, you know what I'm saying? And it's like my body's going, “Oh, we're just following what you believe to be true” or if that is—is that a thing? Because different foods digest at different rates of speed, right? Like obviously, if you have some ice cream, that's going to run through your peach faster than a big old ribeye is. So, what is your take on mixing, you know, carbs, proteins, fats, sugars, et cetera, together?

[00:06:00]Wade Lightheart:  Well, I've thought about this a lot particularly because, you know, you really get into diet and food, even, you know, my background from the bodybuilding and nutrition. And if you look at nature, nature combines proteins, fats and carbohydrates and almost every single food that it makes in different ratios. The challenge that we're facing today is we set a definition of food, which is very incomplete and there were consequences to that en masse because you have to understand, it's not just about what's happening. 

[00:06:33] And so, I'm going to go macro first, and then we're going to go micro. The macro situation is starvation and calorie insufficiency were major problems up until 60, 70 years ago in industrialized worlds. We went to monoculture production and we went to massive food distribution. And the advantages of that, we solved the caloric and nutrient component of that. But our definition of food did not account for what was the protein content, what was the fatty acid content, what was the phytonutrient content, what was the enzyme content, what were the probiotics that were naturally occurring that most of that stuff was washed out. 

[00:07:10] And so, what happens is your food that you're eating today, for most people, is nothing like any of our ancestors have eaten, you know, outside of two gens or the last couple of generations. And so, what happens—and then, you add onto all the chemicalization and industrialization and civilization components that we're adding all these other elements that interfere the natural conversion pathways of converting your food into what I call electrons. I mean, if you're talking from an energy pathway, we're all living on electrons. 

[00:07:44] And your ability to convert into energy units and into building blocks is going to determine how well you digest food. Now, if you have a compromised digestive system, let's say you have a compromise lipase fat pathway—that's lipase, the enzymatic pathway that breaks down fats. If you have that in you combine, say, fats with carbohydrates, chances are you're going to have a problem. You're going to be metabolizing the carbohydrates, you're not going to be metabolizing the fats. There’s going to be interactions. It's not going to work right. 

[00:08:15] If you have a dysbiosis in your bacteria culture, some foods are going to be inflammatory, some are not. And the more that you put in combination, the more likelihood that you're going to run into a problem. So, this is the kind of situation that people are faced with. And generally, what happens is people get into dietary strategies or pattern and there's a benefit to reduction-based strategies, which most diets start there, whether they're moving to a cleansing diet or a raw-food diet, or a vegetarian diet, or even they're going to a keto diet, depending on their genetics and epigenetics, which one's going to do better. 

[00:08:51] The reality is people mistake the change or the elimination with the benefit. There's a benefit from reducing the inflammatory components or the compromised things, but you can only reduce yourself to a certain amount. It's like you can't budget your way to become a billionaire. You know, getting budgetary control is a great idea, but at some point, you got to spend time, energy in expanding your capacity. And when you're talking about digestion, I would say that—well, just look at the facts, 12% of the society today—or 12% of the emergency hospital visits right now are gastrointestinal-related illnesses. 

[00:09:28] 25% of the population is on prescription medications for digestive-related conditions. And a third of Americans today are suffering from some form of digestive distress on any given day of the week. So, what we're talking about here is the collective food strategy that we've embraced in the westernized world, has benefits, but also severe consequences, which are passed on generationally. And the reality is food combining makes sense in a compromised situation for some people for some time, but ultimately, we're into optimization. 

[00:10:06] We're into how do you create dietary flexibility that you can be successful on virtually any kind of diet, that you can have the tools to deal with any kind of meal, and then that you—through testing and optimization, that you're able to figure out the components that are going to allow you to just rock and convert anything into the energy, you know, and some building blocks that you want. That's the ultimate goal, flexibility. So, that's what we're all about. And I know it's kind of a roundabout answer, but I think that sometimes you can get too narrow and not understand the big picture because you don't see the big picture. You're just going through a maze and you continue to get lost on strategies or philosophies that are—I would say that are limiting as opposed to expanding.

[00:10:49]Matt Gallant:  Here's the great news though. First of all, yeah, eating a lot of—I'll talk about the test that we're really big fans of to really optimize your diet, whatever type of diet you're doing, but you can hack the digestive process using enzymes, hydrochloric acids, and probiotics. So, even if, you know, you want to eat whatever you want to eat, those will allow you to not have digestive distress. So, I do like massive calorie days every Sunday. I'm keto the rest of the week. And I eat about 6,000 calories, which is a lot of food and pretty much whatever I want. It's not a clean day. 

[00:11:28] And I have very close to zero digestive distress because I use those tools, which we can get more into later. But what we're big fans of on the optimization side, one is using Viome data to look at the strains you have. And then, you know, looking at the super food list and the foods-to-avoid list and shifting more of your diet to that. So, to give you an example, I do usually a super salad once a week. And it's all foods that are in the superfood category. So, arugula, watercress, salmon, blueberries. 

[00:12:01]Luke Storey:  From your Viome test. 

[00:12:02]Matt Gallant:  From my Viome.

[00:12:02]Luke Storey:  And by the way, guys, what he's talking about is a particular gut test. We had Naveen Jain on this show a while ago, and you can get the Viome test at lukestorey.com/ store, little plug there, but it's very useful because it gives you the foods that are optimized for your particular gut and which aren't, which was interesting because sorry to divert you, but I just want to give this insight, when I got the test, I was expecting like, “Oh shit, what if I can't have burgers anymore?”, you know, or whatever I didn't want to give up. And it's like my Viome results were exactly what I like to eat anyway.

[00:12:34]Matt Gallant:  Yeah.

[00:12:34]Luke Storey:  There were very few things on there that I, you know, wanted to eat and shouldn't and vice versa. There weren't things that were recommended that I hate. It was so interesting. It's like my body kind of knows. 

[00:12:45]Matt Gallant:  I had the similar result. Like chicken, it has never sat well with me and it was like, “Don't eat chicken.” Arugula and watercress were things that like I always prefer that over normal lettuce and romaine and whatever, those were my superfoods. But what's amazing, when I eat that super salad, which is like literally at two pounds, Wade and I are big fans of big ass salads, my body just incinerates it, like almost nothing comes out and my weight will actually drop. 

[00:13:11] So, that's because the probiotics, going back to the workers, when it hits that part of the intestine, they just start literally feasting. So, that's one of our favorite tools. You know, doing a food sensitivity test, like Cyrex, and obviously eliminating foods that stress your body is another great idea. And the other one is Nutrigenomix because, you know, that's a big deal. For an example, like coconut oil, which is very popular in keto and other diets, I got my triglycerides tested, I was over 200, which is pretty high. And then, I was doing muscle testing and figured out it's the coconut oil. 

[00:13:51] Pretty much eliminated it out of my diet, and then I went down to 95. So, for me—which makes sense, you know, I'm from Canada, I've got European genetics, like coconuts have not been part of the culture versus I live in Panama now, and my wife, you know, she was born eating coconuts and it doesn't have an issue. So, there are genes that allow us to eat more saturated fats or eat plants and convert the plants into usable Omega-3s, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So, Nutrigenomix is another tool to really optimize your diet. 

[00:14:25]Luke Storey:  And is that a test that someone can order? Do you need to go through a functional medicine doctor and all that?

[00:14:29]Matt Gallant:  I mean, I have no doubt that the next couple of years, these tests will be commercially available, but yeah, we have someone that we work with that probably the best we're aware of, as far as, you know, she spent—she's incredibly smart and spent maybe thousands of hours at this point studying all the mutations. And it's not easy to do, even if you know your stuff. So, that's what we use. 

[00:14:53]Luke Storey:  Oh, cool. Awesome. So, in essence to the food-combining thing, it's like if your digestion is optimized and you're shredding food like your body is meant to, it's not that big of a deal. So, 15,000 years ago, if I, you know, dig up some wild leeks and go smoke a raccoon or something, eat them together with some wild rice, not a problem. But if you've been eating glyphosate and-

[00:15:17]Wade Lightheart:  Exactly.

[00:15:18]Luke Storey:  ... you know, Froot Loops your whole childhood and, you know, all that, then you're not going to—I think that's—you know, it's interesting because when I ignore the food-combining rules that I kind of have in place for myself, if I chug a bunch of enzymes and HCl, like the ones you guys make, then it's pretty good. 

[00:15:34]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[00:15:34]Luke Storey:  But I need that boost because my body's like, “Fuck you. This is too much at once.”

[00:15:38]Wade Lightheart:  But, you know, I find it's ironic too, if you go back to Hippocrates, the father of medicine, he said, all disease begins in the gut. 

[00:15:44]Luke Storey:  Right. 

[00:15:44]Wade Lightheart:  You know, 2,500 years, how he knew that information, I'm not sure exactly. 

[00:15:48]Matt Gallant:  Well, he was probably looking at the people around him and probably noticing some gut challenges back then.

[00:15:54]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. 

[00:15:54]Luke Storey:  Well, you know, it's interesting also to let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food thing. But as I've heard you guys say on other interviews that I've heard you on, it's not about the food you're eating, it's what you actually assimilate. And I think that's so confusing to so many people like me that at different times, your diet is super clean, whether you're vegan, paleo, carnivore or whatever, like you're eating really good food and whatever category suits you, and you're still sick. You know, it's like what the hell is going on? And I think that's why I really wanted to do a show just like zero in on this digestion issue. 

[00:16:27]Matt Gallant:  But one of the things that will really—I mean, it can literally kill you is undigested proteins that's an allergic reaction, is a protein that your body cannot break down and your immune system says, “Whoa, that's a threat.” And, you know, I mean, like I say, it can kill you. So, you know, obviously, amino acids, what creates our neurotransmitters or peptides or muscle, you know, is what repairs your body. Of course, fatty acids are really important as well. These are really the two main nutrients that builds our body as far as the inside. Of course, carbs, we use for energy if you're a carbivore like Wade is. But unless that nutrient is broken down and passes through the intestinal tract, like it's not used, it just ends up in the toilet or, again, worst, creates inflammation and other problems. So, you've got to break your food down. 

[00:17:20]Luke Storey:  What's the deal with the different types of enzymes? And I know that we could have like a whole five-hour show just on enzymes and the 25,000 things that they do in your body and all of that. But at different times, I've explored all kinds of different companies that make enzymes. And at one point, I got really into these systemic enzymes, particularly this brand called Wobenzyme that are like bovine pancreas and just all of these pretty potent animal derivatives. I think they're originally from Germany.

[00:17:48]Matt Gallant:  Yeah.

[00:17:48]Luke Storey:  And I started using that for pain in my body and just inflammation. So, I'd take like 30 or 40 of those tablets with just a huge glass of water and all of a sudden, no back pain. I'm more flexible. My joints, tendons, ligaments are really happy. And then, I found also I could take them on top of a really heavy meal and it helped with digestion. And then, at one point, I got into serrapeptase because—I'm, you know, again, I'm always working on joint mobility and things like that. And I would do serrapeptase rectal infusions, where you take like basically-

[00:18:21]Wade Lightheart:  Is that for tight ass?

[00:18:24]Luke Storey:  Yeah, a bunch of serrapeptase capsule, like MTL, like 20 serrapeptase capsules into like, you know, a quarter of a glass of water, and then take basically what's like a giant syringe or turkey-based or kind of thing, and up the hill. And then, that would help with pain and stuff. So, it's an enzyme. It seemed to have like this anti-inflammatory effect, but also help you with digestion. So, I don't know, kind of unpack all the different types of enzymes and what they do, if you can. 

[00:18:51]Matt Gallant:  And back to the ones you've mentioned, they're mostly proteolytic enzymes. And so, the main three categories are amylases, which breaks on carbs into glycogen; the lipases, which we looked at some of your interesting gut results, which we can talk about because it seems you have some lipase challenges, and those break down the fats into fatty acids; and then there's the proteases, which breaks the protein down to aminos. And almost all the enzymes you just mentioned are proteolytic. 

[00:19:21] So, it goes back to what I was saying that, you know, the inflammation could be caused by undigested proteins that are floating around. And the serrapeptase actually breaks down fibrin, which is scar tissue, which helps the mobility, which, you know, we're all building scar tissue to different degrees as we get older. And, you know, there's, I mean, literally thousands and thousands of enzymes that do very specific things. If you can't break down lactose, for example, there's lactase and so on and so forth. If you can't break down cellulose, there’s cellulase. So, what we did-

[00:19:57]Luke Storey:  That's interesting because I think, you know, on the plant-based diet, I did not do well because I was eating tons of cellulose and, you know, legumes and things like that. 

[00:20:09]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[00:20:09]Luke Storey:  It just wrecked me because I couldn't digest it. 

[00:20:12]Wade Lightheart:  Any cellulose is hemicellulose.

[00:20:14]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:20:14]Wade Lightheart:  This type of products that are designed to break down the fiber, which typically would have been present in the foods if we had got them in a natural, normal state. That goes back to the whole food production, food distribution model. 

[00:20:27]Luke Storey:  Got it. Which is essentially why we need products like yours and others to kind of prop ourselves up, like going—I always go back to pre-agriculture, most of the shit that we're doing in biohacking and kind of health enthusiasts wouldn't have been necessary because you used to be living off the land and you're golden for the most part, right?

[00:20:46]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. 

[00:20:46]Luke Storey:  So, anyway, back to you. You are on a good track there with the various enzymes and what they do. 

[00:20:52]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. So, what we did with MassZymes, there are 17 different enzymes, but, you know, because Wade's a natural bodybuilding champion, and I've been into building muscle for a long time, we wanted to focus on the protease again because we know the power of amino acids from a muscle-building perspective, from a health perspective, and even from an anti-aging perspective. I don't know if you've read Longevity Code. 

[00:21:16] Yeah, that came out not that long ago. And the theories that what's killing centenarians and supercentenarians is actually protein accumulation in the cells, and the cells just stop working. So, in our opinion, and going back to fasting, you know, one of the things that will accelerate the effects and the benefits of fasting is taking a massive amount of proteolytic enzymes, which, you know, you call them systemic. Any proteolytic enzyme you take in without food will go in and start cleaning house. So-

[00:21:49]Luke Storey:  And I just want to interrupt there, so I understand this. So, something like serrapeptase, whether you're being a normal person and swallowing it or being a weirdo and putting it up your wazoo, you know, how does that actually—when you say it eats scar tissue, because that's why I was taking it, does it get into your blood and then-

[00:22:07]Matt Gallant:  Mm-hmm.

[00:22:07]Luke Storey:  Okay. So, your blood transports it into all of the different—you know, into your muscles and anywhere, I guess like under your fascia and starts just knowingly—it just knows how to kind of get in and work on stuff.

[00:22:19]Wade Lightheart:  I really want to talk about—like I'm glad you brought this up because I think a lot of people don't actually understand what an enzyme is. 

[00:22:26]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Me neither. 

[00:22:27]Wade Lightheart:  Okay. And it's a very—enzymes are the difference between the living and the dead. The difference between stones, plants and people. Enzymes are catalysts, which means they accelerate processes inside of your body. Also, there's a foundational principle in orthomolecular nutrition, the treatment of disease or disorder through nutrition. 

[00:22:55]Luke Storey:  Linus Pauling.

[00:22:56]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. Dr. Hoffer. 

[00:22:58]Luke Storey:  Yeah, yeah.

[00:22:58]Wade Lightheart:  Dr Abraham.

[00:22:58]Luke Storey:  Good stuff.

[00:22:59]Wade Lightheart:  All those guys.

[00:22:59]Matt Gallant:  And our boy, Hawkins. 

[00:23:00]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Have you ever read the paper? I can never find it. 

[00:23:03]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. No, I actually got the book. I get 

[00:23:05]Luke Storey:  The Hawkins and the Linus Pauling one? 

[00:23:06]Wade Lightheart:  I got the actual book with the stuff and how they were figuring this stuff out in the ‘70s. I mean, it was incredible. I mean, the collective intellectual horsepower of those guys is just really, really far out. 

[00:23:17]Matt Gallant:  There’s a lot of genius up there. 

[00:23:17]Wade Lightheart:  I got that book. It was a skewer to get. You might be able to find one on Amazon used books somewhere, some dusty place and, you know, somebody found in a university. But going back to the enzyme situation is Dr. Edward Howell. And I recommend to everybody, just go get the book, Enzyme Nutrition or Food Enzymes for Health and Longevity if you want a little bit more of the studies and research and stuff. 

[00:23:40]Matt Gallant:  Great book. 

[00:23:41]Wade Lightheart:  He demonstrated that the life expectancy or the total life of any organisms was directly and inversely correlated with the amount of enzymes present in that organism. So, take a person that's two people, let's say you had two twins. And one person lives a really healthy lifestyle and another person starts doing excessive drug use. Well, how does your body get rid of these drugs? It starts burning up its enzymatic use. And you'll take those two people, which will age completely differently because of the exhaust rate of the enzymatic potential of the drug user versus the person who is preserving their enzymes for a healthier lifestyle. And I do believe this is one of the reasons why fasting is so effective. 

[00:24:29] And the one thing they seem to be correlated with people who live a long time is they eat less than regular people. And digestion takes a massive amount of these enzymes in order to break down because we're the only species on the planet that does not eat their food in a raw food state for the most period of time. Tiger knocks down a zebra, eats the enzymes, eats the entrails with the enzymes and probiotics are, then it eats thee carcass. A horse or a cow will go out and find the most—like try and get all the sprouts, which is the most enzymatically rich. It barely eats blueberries raw, it will eat salmon raw. Now, the—and this goes back to the definition of food.

[00:25:05]Luke Storey:  Oh, interesting. 

[00:25:06]Wade Lightheart:  Right.

[00:25:06]Luke Storey:  So, enzymes are present in animal foods and the organs. 

[00:25:09]Wade Lightheart:  Right. 

[00:25:10]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:25:10]Wade Lightheart:  And as well as when you pull out a carrot, it would not just have the enzymes present in its richest form, it also has the bacteria on it. It would just take the carrot—we can take the carrot out of my mom's garden and we tossed it off and we eat it. 

[00:25:22]Matt Gallant:  And for some reason, it tastes better. I was just at my dad, my dad plants a huge, like almost one-acre garden, and I don’t know, there's just actually a flavor almost, like my brain is saying, “Wow”, because this is a better carrot than even when they clean it and put it in the fridge. And I eat the same carrot when it's clean. I don't know, the probiotics are telling my brain, “Wow. This is really good for you.”

[00:25:43]Luke Storey:  Yeah. That makes sense.

[00:25:44]Wade Lightheart:  Once that carrot dies, okay, its enzymatic potential starts to diminish. If a seal is being eaten by a killer whale, there's an enzyme present in all living beings called cathepsin that's released once that seal dies that it starts to break down. Now, the whale gets all the enzyme potential of that seal, just like the horse gets the enzyme potential. So, there's a replenishment, and that's part of the definition of food. We've stripped away the enzymes because what happens when you radiate food, it has a longer shelf life. 

[00:26:13] And shelf life is important for the food distribution component. When you add mineral or mineral-deficient soils and you add nitrogen fertilizers and things like chemical fertilizers, you grow food that diminishes the protein content because the protein is now being converted into enzymes in order to sustain that particular species of food. And over time, you know, in 1900, Congress had wheat that was, you know, 90% protein. And now, it's less than 7%. In fact, other countries oftentimes will refuse American wheat products because the nutrient is not the same quality as if you get food. 

[00:26:50] And then, everybody's gone to Italy and eaten all those pastas and said, “I don't have the same thing as I have when I'm here.” And that's just largely regard because we have the most sophisticated food production and distribution component. But the definition of what food is or what quality food is so 1950s that we've got an upgrade. And if you're into optimizing your health, if you're into optimizing your diet, if you're in the anti-aging and high performance and aesthetics, which we're all kind of into, you have to recognize is that you need to redefine what food is. 

[00:27:18] And enzymes need to be a critical component of that because your potential—I mean, I went on a raw food diet and I saw all these raw foodies who would get better from restriction eating, you know, but they weren't able to rebuild their enzymatic pool. And any enzyme, and going back to earth and molecular, because I'm kind of circling around here, but when you take high doses of vitamin C, at a certain point, you'll get the runs. If you take high doses of magnesium, you get the runs. And as biohackers, you kind of go to that dosage, and then you titrate down to, I always call it the bucket theory. You have a burn rate in the bucket, but if you're only running a small bucket, then you're running out, but you want to fill the bucket up, and then you’d only have to add as much as you're burning. 

[00:28:01] And if you burn more, you add more. And if you burn less, you need less. And so, this whole enzyme thing is so powerful and so transformative for people, they understand of optimizing their diet because that is literally the catalyst that is going to allow you to convert it. And then, inside the body, if you don't use the enzymes for digestion, guess what, you don't get the runs. I've taken up to a thousand capsules a day to see if I could break the GI barrier, it never did. And the enzymes are actually being absorbed, and then transported into being systemic enzymes. I'll give you a small story, and then we'll turn off the matter.

[00:28:33]Luke Storey:  So, if you take a larger load or dose of enzymes than as needed to digest the food, then those inherently—just the extra goes into the other anti-inflammatory, the chewing up of scar tissue, all this kind of stuff.

[00:28:46]Wade Lightheart:  Correct. And I’ll give you-

[00:28:47]Matt Gallant:  The proteases. 

[00:28:48] Yeah, protease. Got it.

[00:28:49]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, protease. I'll give you an example. I had a friend of mine, she had a very thick scar. She had a spider bite that created necrosis, and started eating her skin. It was very terrible. And she ended up with this giant scar, it was about three inches long and probably a half-inch thick. And she was someone that did silks and, you know, all that acrobatics up. And it gotten so bad that she wasn't able to get shoulder rotation. And so, normally, if you will take something, serrapeptase, which is a great product and stuff. 

[00:29:18] And I said at her, “This is an interesting experiment. Let's start giving you MassZymes on an empty stomach.” So, we'd give her five enzymes and within 15 minutes, the scar would get red and start to itch. And I'm like, “This is fascinating.” So, we did this two times a day over the period of nine months, and she was taking digestive enzymes as well. But particularly, when we’re taking on an empty stomach, we'd see this response. Now, obviously, she was very responsive. And in nine months, the scar completely went flat. 

[00:29:49] The coloration returned to the normalness of her skin so much that her three-year-old daughter, she was holding her three-year-old daughter, and her three-year-old daughter goes, “Mommy, your scar is gone.” And that was proof in the real world that I got to watch of the effects of proteolytic, high-quality proteolytic enzymes, which are generally used for digestion, be converted into a systemic enzyme, therefore providing benefits outside of that. And of course, now, the research shows about recovery factors and the healing of contusions and the acceleration of healing when people are supplementing with high quality cultured enzymes. And so, there’s different types of enzymes. 

[00:30:29]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:30:29]Wade Lightheart:  Plant-based enzymes, animal-based enzymes, food-based enzymes. And then, there's cultured enzymes. And cultured enzymes are going to be anywhere from a hundred to a thousand times more potent than a regular enzyme. And that's why there's such a disparity between, you know, you'll go to Whole Foods and you'll see one set of enzymes, it's 10 bucks and another one that's a hundred. And then, it says amylase, protease, and lipase. 

[00:30:52] Well, what's the difference? And it's because a lot of companies are taking advantage that the consumer is not sophisticated to understand what is a quality product that’s going to get the job done because there's nothing more expensive than a product that doesn't work. And that's why I think some people said, “I’ve tried enzyme and didn't feel anything.” Well, what enzyme did you try? How did you use it? And what's your current goals? It's always a determining factor. 

[00:31:15]Luke Storey:  If that type of enzyme that we were just talking about is breaking down proteins, and then allowing you to extract amino acids from the protein, which kind of the whole point of eating protein, right?

[00:31:26]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, absolutely. I mean-

[00:31:27]Luke Storey:  How do enzymes play into minerals? You know, I find it fascinating how—you know, well, we have a plant in the room, which doesn't get as much sun. I'm sorry, plant. You're going to have to live off the blue light of the studio light, but you know, you have your microbiome in the soil, right? And then, the microbiome, this is my kind of Flintstonean understanding of it, the microbiome is eating rocks, which are minerals, right? And it's making it bioavailable to the plant. And then, the plant has this enzymatic process that makes those minerals or electrolytes kind of units of energy, I guess, you could say in a crude way. 

[00:32:00] And please absolutely correct me if I'm wrong on any point of this. And then, we either eat that plant, and then there's enzymes in there to help us assimilate that energy and those minerals or an animal eats that, and then we eat that animal. But we're kind of like, we're getting the photonic energy from the sun, right? The electrons from the sun that are going into the plant or the animal in whatever order. And then, we're getting their rocks or minerals in another form of energy coming from the soil. How do enzymes play into the mineral part of it? And did I get that process right at all? 

[00:32:35]Matt Gallant:  Let me throw it. 

[00:32:36]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. Here's the channel. You need enzymes to get your protein, protein to get your minerals, minerals to get your vitamins. 

[00:32:44]Luke Storey:  Oh, shit. 

[00:32:45]Wade Lightheart:  That's the pathway. 

[00:32:46]Luke Storey:  That's way more confusing than I thought. 

[00:32:49]Wade Lightheart:  So- 

[00:32:50]Luke Storey:  My over-simplification of the process.

[00:32:52]Wade Lightheart:  No, you're actually on track with that about the process because essentially, the plant is digesting essential elements for us through humic and fulvic acid as the mechanism that is breaking that stuff down, and that's why that's such a popular supplement for people who are in the bio hacking community that want to optimize- 

[00:33:11]Luke Storey:  This is why my body likes shilajits a lot.

[00:33:13]Wade Lightheart:  Correct. 

[00:33:14]Luke Storey:  I put it in my coffee every day. I love that stuff.

[00:33:16]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, 100%. 

[00:33:17]Matt Gallant:  And the minerals are involved in a lot of enzymatic processes. So-

[00:33:23]Wade Lightheart:  Magnesium.

[00:33:24]Matt Gallant:  Magnesium and-I mean, all of them, to different degrees, are involved in equating the trace minerals, which we're big fans of. So, you know, it is part of the whole—of the 25,000 enzymatic processes and reactions that are happening as we're speaking, you know, from thinking to blinking, to moving my arms, you know, there are minerals that are part of that. 

[00:33:48]Luke Storey:  Interesting. Okay. I'm loving this. This is such good stuff. Something that I recently learned from John Gray, who most people learned about how to have a good relationship from John Gray, and he’s great at that.

[00:34:00]Matt Gallant:  He’s one of us, right? He's a biohacker. 

[00:34:01]Luke Storey:  Yeah, he is. He is. And he's really into targeted supplementation. And I was just spending some time with him, just hanging out up in Marina recently, and he was like, “Dude, I discovered like the Holy grail of protein assimilation.” And I said, “What did you do?” And I think he makes a product that's like some kind of weight protein or something that has enzymes in it, but I just kind of hacked it and I used your enzymes where you make like a—I don't even know how many grams of goddamn protein, bone broth protein, collagen, gelatin, whatever, I have them all. So, I'll take that, six egg yolks, and then I'll take a bunch of your enzymes and blend it up in there, you know, empty the capsules out, and then put it in the refrigerator for like an hour. Am I on the right track here with like pre-digesting kind of-

[00:34:43]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, 100%.

[00:34:43]Luke Storey:  I picture that like a bird chewing up the food, and then regurgitate and into the little chick’s mouth, you know, and making it easy to digest.

[00:34:49]Matt Gallant:  It's one of my favorite hacks, and especially if you're working out. Because, you know, when you're working out, as soon as you lift and like as soon as you finish, your body wants to start repairing the muscle. I mean, we know that a lot of the repair happens the 48, 72 hours after that, but it's kind of an instant response. And there is—research has shown that you can get more gains if you're getting amino acids in real time. And, you know, we all know that BCA is our popular supplement, but the hack is exactly what you just said, except I want put it in the fridge because you know, the speed of the enzymatic process is directly correlated to temperature. 

[00:35:35] And that's why when you get sick, your body's increasing the temperature of your body. And for each degree, it doubles the enzymatic activity. So, as your body gets sick, you're like, “Okay, let's increase enzymatic activity to try to heal.” And that's why your temperature goes up. So, if you pull it out of the fridge like within usually 30 minutes, you'll taste the change go from protein to amino acids, which is a very different flavor, I’m sure you know that. 

[00:36:02]Luke Storey:  Yeah. It does not—you know, my little formula does not taste great, so I don't recommend it for anyone that's like wanting a nice vanilla, you know, kind of. It also turns it very watery. It just like get viscous. Yeah, it's really interesting. It'll be just like a—it looks like a stout. 

[00:36:18]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. 

[00:36:18]Luke Storey:  It looks like a pint of stout after I'm done with it or it was the super creamy, like thick milkshake kind of consistency when I first found it.

[00:36:25]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, because you break them down.

[00:36:26]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:36:26]Matt Gallant:  You see all these little bubbles and chemical reactions, basically. 

[00:36:28]Luke Storey:  It's interesting, yeah.

[00:36:29]Matt Gallant:  Wade, why don't you share the experiment we did in Panama using that concoction? 

[00:36:34]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. So, we wanted to—so, you know, Matt and I will cook up a theory and we're like, “All right, well, let's go test it”, you know. And sometimes, it works and sometimes, it's a disaster, but we always learn. And so, we just said, “Well, what's a workout that we couldn't possibly do? Can we accelerate recovery right off?” And he's like, “Well, doing a 300-set workout with every set to failure is kind of crazy.” You know, the average workout maybe be anywhere between 15 and on the low end to maybe-

[00:37:05]Matt Gallant:  30 in a big day.

[00:37:06]Wade Lightheart:  ... 30 in a big day, you know what I mean?

[00:37:07]Luke Storey:  Mine's like eight. I used the XXX3 bar. 

[00:37:08]Wade Lightheart:  Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:10]Luke Storey:  You know, I use like the thickest band I can, and it's like depending on the movement, which was only five or six movements, I'll get to like eight or 10, and I'm smoked. 

[00:37:19]Wade Lightheart:  So, we were like, “Okay, this is very viable. We're going to be in a lot of pain if we try and do this, if we can complete it.” So, we went at it and what we did is we concocted up our protein shakes, blended up the MassZymes and some P3-OM actually with it as well. And then, went to the gym and we sipped these drinks while we went through this insane workout. And I remember an-hour-and-a-half in, we're looking at each other and like, “This is—it doesn't feel too bad”, right? 

[00:37:47]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:37:47]Wade Lightheart:  We get to like two-and-a-half hours and it's like, “Hey, we still feel pretty good.” And we've got three hours, and it was like, “Okay, we got it. We got our 300 sets. It’s pretty awesome.” And it was just relentless. And what was interesting is we'd like, “Okay, well, now, we did that. We are going—we might not be able to walk tomorrow”, right? Like we've felt we're going to be in a whole world of hurt. And I remember waking up the next day and I wasn't sore, and I was like, “Okay, did something happen? Is like the soreness coming tomorrow just like the boogeyman or whatever?” But yeah. 

[00:38:18]Luke Storey:  We call that creeper soreness.

[00:38:19]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. And there was a fellow by the name of, I think it was Dr. [Dipskwali] that said that he used to use specific amino acids before the workout, during the workout and after the workout because he wanted to create certain repair pathways. And he was the guy that kind of said, you start repairing instantly from that workout. And if you can provide those nutrients concordant to working out that would work. Now, just sipping on protein shake without those probably wouldn't work that well because now, you're going to suck on your own enzymatic reserves. You need the external enzymes in order to get the lift.

[00:38:54]Luke Storey:  Well, you just answered my next question, which would be like, dude, because I'll also put extra amino acids in there too, you know, just because, why not? 

[00:39:02]Wade Lightheart:  Sure. Why not? 

[00:39:03]Luke Storey:  But I never know like should I drink that before I go lift or during, after?

[00:39:08]Matt Gallant:  In through workout. You can start before and keep sipping throughout so that, again, you don't want to overload the stomach because you don't have that much blood flow there, and it's just going in. So, you want to kind of time it as you're sipping through, and by almost the end of it, you've drank your concoction. So, it's a great hack. It really works well. 

[00:39:26]Luke Storey:  That's cool. I love that. Well, John Gray, man, he knows-

[00:39:29]Matt Gallant:  Here's another hack too for those of you that might only have access to cheap cuts of meat, you can use MassZymes and pre-digest the steak. So, you break—you take your steak, you put the capsule on it and-

[00:39:47]Wade Lightheart:  Break it open, break the capsule open. 

[00:39:48]Matt Gallant:  Break the capsule open. 

[00:39:49]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[00:39:49]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. Put the cap on, it won't work. Put the powder, blend it, you know, just spread it and weight, depending on how much pre-digestion you want, you know, an hour to two hours, and you'll actually see like it'll start to dissolve the meat, but it's a great hack if you want to make cheap cuts of meat be more tender. 

[00:40:08]Luke Storey:  Oh, no way. Does it make them—the amino acids or, you know, the proteins any more bioavailable, like once you cook it, is it easier to digest or is it just a trick to make it not so tough? 

[00:40:18]Matt Gallant:  It's more of a trick to make it tender. 

[00:40:20]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:40:20]Matt Gallant:  Yeah.

[00:40:20]Luke Storey:  Oh, interesting. Wow, that’s cool.

[00:40:22]Matt Gallant:  And, you know, some people that are cooks will use pineapple, which has bromelain to do the same trick or papaya. 

[00:40:29]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:40:29]Matt Gallant:  So, it's just science 

[00:40:31]Luke Storey:  And what causes heartburn, guys? Because when, you know—as we were talking—we always have these like deeper, more private conversations before the mic's around, but, you know, it's no secret that I did experiment a bit with opiates back in my former life. And when I did that, my digestion just stopped after a few years of those shenanigans. And I don't know that it's ever come back totally online as it would in prior to that. And one thing I suffered from, from a long time, was heartburn. And over the years as I've optimized, it's gotten better and better. But I think many people are still very confused about the different—I'm sure there's not one cause, but the many causes of it and what you can do about it. So, break down heartburn.

[00:41:12]Matt Gallant:  Gas. So, what happens is if you don't have enough hydrochloric acid, stomach acid or bile, the gas builds up and pushes the valve, and then the fluids come up and burns. So, it's kind of the opposite of—it sounds counterintuitive, “Hey, I'm not making enough acid, and that's why I've got acid heartburn.” But basically, it's the gas that's pushing the valve, and then the liquid comes up. So, where you can—maybe a way you can cover the five stages of digestion because it's such a great framework to understand each part of it.

[00:41:45]Luke Storey:  Oh, cool. Let's do that. 

[00:41:46]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. Okay. So, remember that it's a single canal from your mouth to your anus. And whatever dietary program that you're following, people assume that if they eat something, it's going to go into their body, but you only get what you can digest, absorb, and utilize. And if you don't do that, and as I gave you the statistics earlier, people are compromised. So, the first area of digestion is taste, touch, sense, smell the food. That actually starts to prepare your body, goes into a digestive response inside the body. And-

[00:42:17]Luke Storey:  Oh, this is the Pavlov, the dog, that phenomenon. 

[00:42:19]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, absolutely. They ring the bell and the dog salivate. And if you look at ayurvedic philosophy, they were very into touching and tasting the food as a sensory first. And what's interesting is if you look here in America, almost the most popular foods are finger foods, pizza, burgers, fries. People eat with their fingers in their hands, which is kind of fascinating because I do believe they're setting up their nervous system and they're preparing themselves to absorb the food. And as part of the joy of that is it's a much richer sensory experience. So, that's the first component. 

[00:42:52]Luke Storey:  Dude, you just reminded—I know you have this down, so I'm going to do this, but you just reminded me of being in India and I had to learn their culture there. And oftentimes in the more rural areas, people eat with their hands. But you also use, I forget if it's the left or right hand you use to like clean yourself up after you go to the bathroom. 

[00:43:10]Wade Lightheart:  Why they do the Namaste, right?

[00:43:12]Luke Storey:  Yeah. So, you know, you got to be careful which hand you're eating with. But I thought that was so fascinating when I went to India. I was like, “Wow, these people are cretins”, but it's just like culturally, in the more rural areas, people are just sitting there like scooping up their food without utensils. Very interesting practice. 

[00:43:26]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:43:27]Luke Storey:  So, carry on to stage two. 

[00:43:28]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. So then, the food, as you masticate it, which is a fancy name for chewing, the food goes down the esophagus and into what's called the upper cardiac portion of the stomach. Now, a lot of people believe that there is like a big bowl of acid sitting there waiting to break down your foods. No, that doesn't happen. Thirty to 60 minutes before the hydrochloric acid comes in. Now, in that first—that timeframe, that 30, 60 minutes, the enzymes naturally present in the food are going to start activating in the high temperature, in that environment. And if they're not present, it doesn't happen, and certain key amino acids don't get cleaved and ended up as undigested proteins in your intestinal tract because that critical stage is important. 

[00:44:10] The next phase is the hydrochloric acid starts to come in. And this is where the magic starts to happen. Hydrochloric acids, it's first and foremost there to disinfect against pathogens, parasites, bacteria, viruses, things like that, that high-acidic environment is designed to kill. It's a big part of our immune system. Average 40-year old, less than 30% of the hydrochloric acid production. That's why a lot of people say, “Hey, I can just be able to eat pizza and beer when I'm 20. Now, I'm 40, and I’m having pizza and beer, and I'm like, I have one piece and I'm bloated. I feel like crap for two days.” That's oftentimes a hydrochloric acid issue. 

[00:44:45]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. And-

[00:44:46]Wade Lightheart:  When they're getting sick all the time. 

[00:44:47]Matt Gallant:  Another friend of mine was also in recovery. He's 35. He can—I don't think he's producing any stomach acid, like, you know, he just gets crazy heartburn unless he's taking hydrochloric acid. So, yeah, it depends of, say, the lifestyle. They can just compromise some of our systems sometimes. So, I'm not surprised by what you were sharing. 

[00:45:07]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. 

[00:45:07]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:45:07]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. So, as the hydrochloric acid starts to come in, the second thing is it starts changing the pH of that mixture. And why that's so important is because different proteases will start to cleave and break from proteins into amino acids at different pH levels. And so, the big three in proteases is 6.0, 4.5, and 3.0, which is a correlation to a band that they work with. So, the 3.0 would go down to just about 1.5 and the 6 would go up to about 8 in regards to its ability. And that's a logarithmic scale. So, you know, hydrochloric acid is extremely acidic and your body needs it to break these things down and to kill these pathogens. 

[00:45:49] So, that mixture is going to work and start mixing around. And when it's kind of in its optimal state, it's going to transit out of the intestinal tract. And this is where if someone has mineral deficiencies, well, they'll run into trouble because they don't have bicarbonate buffers, which is a fancy name for alkaline minerals that are going to buffer that acid coming out before it goes in the intestinal tract. If you don't have that, what happens is, you start getting burn holes in your intestines, and that's where you get the ulcers, colloidal ulcers, and, duodenal ulcers and all these sorts of things because something's disrupted in that system, you know.

[00:46:23]Luke Storey:  Do you think, on that note, supplementing with bicarbonate minerals or electrolytes is helpful, generally? I'm a big fan of this magnesium bicarbonate. I put it in most of my water. It wasn't in your water, but usually, I'll kind of dilute a bit in my drinking water. 

[00:46:41]Wade Lightheart:  We’re major fans of supplementing with all of the minerals, particularly trace minerals as well. Magnesium is a great, alkaline. And I think everybody needs to be on massive amounts of magnesium. It's probably one of the—I call it the master mineral. 

[00:46:55]Luke Storey:  Do you guys have a brand of trace minerals that you like, that you can actually assimilate? 

[00:47:00]Matt Gallant:  Primergen-V, Primergen-M, which is made by us.

[00:47:04]Luke Storey:  Oh, you guys do that? 

[00:47:06]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. 

[00:47:06]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[00:47:07]Luke Storey:  Oh, I didn't know that. 

[00:47:07]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:07]Luke Storey:  Oh, shit, man. I'm behind the times. I'm not-

[00:47:09]Wade Lightheart:  I'll send you something. 

[00:47:09]Luke Storey:  Oh, great. Thank you. Okay.

[00:47:11]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. And they’re in a liquid fulvic, humic acid base.

[00:47:15]Luke Storey:  Dude.

[00:47:15]Matt Gallant:  And you do get a big lift. I mean, you can put that in your coffees, your teas, and-

[00:47:19]Luke Storey:  Is that a new product you guys have? 

[00:47:22]Matt Gallant:  No, it’s actually one of our oldest.

[00:47:23]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, it’s our oldest one.

[00:47:23]Luke Storey:  Really? Wow, that’s weird on how I missed that because I ordered a bunch of stuff off your site and I thought I got one of everything or more than one. Interesting. But is it not true—and hold your thought on the five stages because I want to wrap that up, but is it not true that most mineral supplements that we get aren't actually digestible? They're not bio-available to us. They're still in like-

[00:47:44]Matt Gallant:  The average pill is like 5%, is the estimate. 

[00:47:46]Luke Storey:  Right. Because it's like ground up rocks basically. 

[00:47:49]Matt Gallant:  Yes, compressed rounded rocks that are up in the sewer.

[00:47:52]Wade Lightheart:  We actually wrote about that 15 years ago when we were producing our bodybuilding because we were kind of like some of the original biohackers as bodybuilders. And we were talking about fulvic acid and minerals and enzymes and probiotics and mind machines and electro current therapy and hot and cold. We were kind of in that conversation for, you know, a long, long, long time. Going back to that, I do suggest that people can go and get a SpectraCell test. 

[00:48:21] I think it's the best test for looking at micronutrients and mineral deficiencies because you took the three of us, each one of us would have a kind of a unique mineral deficiency, a vitamin deficiency, or our ability to absorb that. So, for example, let's say the three of us were taking 20 milligrams of zinc. Well, our ability to absorb those 20 milligrams I think is probably going to be quite a bit different. So, you might need 40, he might need 20, I might need 80 to get the amount that's going to help our body's function based on methylation, epigenetics, and these types of things. So, you can go really deep. Go ahead. 

[00:48:55]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. Well, you started the, what I wanted to say, which is the epigenetics or genetics. You know, even if we were back to like the golden times of, you know, you had the perfect garden in your house, there are still mutations to deal with, the genetic mutations that, for an example, you know, there's the motherfucker gene, which like 50%, I think, North Americans have, MTHFR. And what that means is, you know, there's a lot of things you just don't methylate. So, what Wade is saying is that if you don't look at that data, it's easy to have nutrition deficiencies that even if you are eating the food, it can still be problematic. So, it's just another piece of the puzzle. That's why we're so big on just nutrigenomics. 

[00:49:45]Luke Storey:  Cool. Awesome. 

[00:49:47]Matt Gallant:  Keep rolling on the stages.

[00:49:48]Wade Lightheart:  Right. So then-

[00:49:48]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I’m into this. So, I think a lot of us don't realize, you know, we think of our insides and our GI tract as like being part of inside us, but it's really outside of you. 

[00:50:01]Wade Lightheart:  Correct. It’s a single canal, all the way down. 

[00:50:03]Matt Gallant:  It's like a pipe. 

[00:50:04]Luke Storey:  Yeah. You have like a garden hose that runs through your body and then, you know, it's permeable, hopefully not more than you want it to be. And then, your different organs are able to extract things out of that if these processes are working optimally. 

[00:50:18]Wade Lightheart:  Correct. Correct. So, now, we buffer that acid, and the food chime now moves into the intestinal tract. And at that point, that's when your microbiome, the various probiotics inside your body, the good, the bad, and the ugly, so it's 10% good, 10% bad, and 80% opportunist. That's why, oftentimes, when people travel, they go to some place, they're subjected to new bacteria or new food or whatever, and it disrupts the microbiome and they get sick and they get food poisoning or they run into some kind of problem. Go ahead.

[00:50:47]Matt Gallant:  Which we are undefeated against food poisoning, as far as we know.

[00:50:51]Wade Lightheart:  With your probiotic.

[00:50:52]Matt Gallant:  The P3-OM.

[00:50:53]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[00:50:53]Matt Gallant:  It's never lost. I mean, I've had food-poisoned me four times the last six, seven years. My wife, one guy, which we don't advise you do this, gave him some food poisoning to test. I was just like, “Don't do this. Don’t do this.”

[00:51:07]Luke Storey:  That's like Wim Hof, you know, taking the-

[00:51:09]Matt Gallant:  Right.

[00:51:09]Wade Lightheart:  It’s exactly like that. Yeah, you know, biohackers are pretty crazy.

[00:51:12]Luke Storey:  Injected himself with-

[00:51:12]Wade Lightheart:  You caveat into what we were—guys, we're not recommending going out and, you know, trying to kill yourself.

[00:51:18]Matt Gallant:  But the thing is it happens. I mean, if you go out and you eat, you travel, and sometimes, it's even just obviously in the water, there's new strains of bacteria that exists, you know, whether it's the Bali or India or Mexico, that can be present in the water, that creates massive disruption in your intestinal tract, and then you got diarrhea, you're vomiting. But P3-OM solves that every single time within usually 30 minutes because usually, when you have food poisoning, it's a 24 to 48-hour ordeal, which is typically not pleasant. So, I’ll just add that.

[00:51:52]Luke Storey:  You just made me think of like every intern I've ever hired in my whole life. Like we used to joke with other business that I own in fashion, and, you know, we’d hire interns or just assistants and whatnot. And I would always tell my partner, “Wow”, these whatever, generation Z or whatever they were, I was like, “Wow. People get food poisoning a lot”, you know. I don't think I've ever had food poisoning in 49 years, but that's the way they would call in sick all the time. It's like, “Well, I have the food poisoning.” I'm like, “Really?” It's the number one excuse for, yeah, like a gen Z, X. You know, from millennials on down, food poison is like the number one health concern apparently. But now that I know about this, I'll be like, “You're coming in any way and take these goddamn probiotics.”

[00:52:32]Wade Lightheart:  Well, there's actually some legit components to it. I'm not saying that the people that are abusing it, but we're now—if you go back to Howell’s work and Dr. Howell back in the ‘40s had predicted—he took all these different species. Everything from dogs, cats, rabbits, rats, you name it, and he fed them enzymatically deficient diets. And by third generation, here's what happened, genetic mutation started happening, lots of genetic diseases, inability to procreate and strange social interactions, like, you know, with mothers eating their young or all sorts of problems and/or strange sociological behaviors and changes in sexual patterns, all kinds of stuff. And he predicted that there would be a massive rise in genetic-based diseases in about three generations. So, when we're getting to those newer generations, many of those younger people are severely compromised from their digestive health. And if you look at the sense of-

[00:53:34]Luke Storey:  Now, I feel bad for like not believing.

[00:53:36]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. Well, I just want to—of course, you wouldn't know this unless you're kind of deep down the rabbit hole with digestion. 

[00:53:42]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:53:42]Wade Lightheart:  And we've seen thousands and thousands and thousands of our clients and heard their stories. And, you know, you get into people with autistic conditions or autoimmune disorders, all of those can be traced into digestion and their food sensitivities come up really—and as you correct them, you start to see that they have more range and capability of the diet that they can have or the foods that they can absorb, digest, and utilize. But going into that, that microbiome, which is a very dynamic environment.

[00:54:09] And we've had been on this kind of antibacterial kick since the advent of, you know, antibiotics and, you know, antibiotic food and antibiotic cleaners and antibiotic everything. And we've had this complete obsession. And there's a lot of benefits to that, obviously, which is part of the population exposure. We're all here because of the use of antibiotics, which saved millions and millions of lives, but the over-prescription of antibiotics creates resistant strains of bacteria. 

[00:54:38] We'd get mutations in our own bacteria. We can get bacteria overgrowth, plagues a lot of women, particularly. Candida issues because of disruption in the microbiome and the foods that are feeding the bad guys. And then, you get a disproportionate amount of that growth. And so, the strategy in order to go in and deal with that is you need to, number one, provide the foods that are going to support your microbiome, right? Number two, you need to beat down the bad guys in a way that supports the good. 

[00:55:10] But guys, like when you take an antibiotic, you just wipe out everything, you’re nuking the place. And the problem is if someone has to go through one of those protocols because, you know, they got an infection or something, you just do it, follow the doctor's order, get that done. But recognize when you come out, your microbiome has been significantly altered. And if you don't replace your bacteria strains or you don't beat down the survivors, what's going to happen is you're going to be much more susceptible to a variety of illnesses and immune system problems and things like that. 

[00:55:41] And you see that the people that are on the kind of the revolving door of antibiotic use are going in and they get every cold and they get every infection and they get every virus and they're continuously sick. And you can totally turn that down by getting your digestion down because that's your body saying, “Stop eating. I need to recover.” The food has now become a poison. Even good food is now a poison. And so, the body's like, “Stop eating. Stop this process until I correct” or you can hack it, take all these things, reconstitute your microbiome. So, that last stage, as it goes into the probiotics, the good ones will actually convert your food into energy-production units or into building blocks. So, the easy way to think of it is, you know, enzymes cut the grass and probiotics mulch it, right? And break that final stage down. 

[00:56:31]Luke Storey:  That's cool. That's interesting. I didn’t know that.

[00:56:32]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. And then, you know, here's another really important factor, is that 95% of your neurotransmitters are actually built in the gut, okay? And if you don't have the bacteria present that are essential to those, the chances of you getting depression or bipolar or all sorts of neurological conditions are quite prominent today because people don't have the right bacteria in their body to convert and build the neurotransmitters that make them feel good or feel happy or feel supported or not feel depressed. And so, oftentimes, we see people and you've got a great story about that, I'll let you queue up. Tell a story about your friend, you know. 

[00:57:11]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. So, my friend, Frank, he's one of us. I've turned my friend—he was 75, when we became friends. He's 78 or 79 now. Biohacker officially. He’s got a NanoVi, he's got all the toys. 

[00:57:25]Luke Storey:  Oh, cool.

[00:57:26]Matt Gallant:  He just buys anything I tell him to buy. But when we started hanging out, he was on antidepressants for a very, very long time. And when he started taking MassZymes, within weeks or months, he got off all of them and feels better. And, you know, he just started a new business, got a dog, you know, all kinds of incredible life changes because his brain is getting the neurotransmitters because again, as we get older, if you're not able to break the protein to amino acids, let's say the amino acids and build neurotransmitters, like serotonin, you know, dopamine, oxytocin, and [endorphins] , all of these things that make us feel good, you're going to feel depressed. So, just taking—and again, MassZymes is not an antidepressant. We're not making any claims here, but for him, in his situation, it solved this problem, which was really just a lack of amino acids. 

[00:58:18]Luke Storey:  That is freaking amazing. And I think that anxiety and depression piece is just so prevalent now. So many people I talk to have that. And I mean, there's all sorts of different factors, you know, on the metaphysical and spiritual realm also, you know, and just having meaning in your life and support and relationships and all of that. But I don't think a lot of people have a direct correlation between digestion, neuro-transmitters, and mood and sleep and all of those things. That's really interesting.

[00:58:49]Matt Gallant:  And you heard it here first. We're going to be releasing a new product in the new year called CogniBiotics. And it's all the strains that have been shown clinically to produce neurotransmitter to improve your mood.

[00:59:03]Luke Storey:  Oh, dope.

[00:59:03]Matt Gallant:  Because, yeah, we all hear that there's a brain to gut connection, which obviously there is. And I want to get into another tangent related to that in a second, but it’s very specific strains that produce the neurotransmitter. So, that's coming out. But one thing to note too, especially for people that, you know, want to start a new diet or change how they're eating and, you know, they might have food cravings, in our opinion. And there's a lot of evidence that the cravings are coming from very specific strains. And again, these probiotics are alive. These bacteria, you know, they want to eat and specific bacteria eat specific foods. So, if you're been eating Doritos and McDonald's, you've been feeding certain colonies of strains. And these colonies, when they get hungry, they send messages to your brain saying, “Hey, go to the Drive- Thru, get me another Big Mac, buddy. So, you know, that creates a cycle-

[00:59:59]Wade Lightheart:  I’ve heard that call before. 

[01:00:02]Matt Gallant:  But here's the good news. The good news is that we know now, and within 24 to 48 hours, if you don't feed certain colonies, they start dying off. So, you know, if you're starting a new diet, give yourself a week and, you know, expect some cravings. I remember when Wade got me, turned me on to the big ass salad, I think within about a week, I remember like starting to crave the big ass salad. We were both trainers in World’s Gym in Vancouver, and we'd cross the street and go to like a Whole Foods and just, you know, eat a big salad. And I remember being really surprised because I was going to—actually, I was going to McDonald's and eating keto, and then Wade turned me on to the salads, and just started craving salads, which it didn’t make any sense to me at the time because I didn't understand how this works. So, yeah, the gut to brain connection is a really fascinating thing.

[01:00:56]Luke Storey:  You know, when I first—it's been maybe three months or so, I've done 10-pass ozone treatments and like gone to clinics and had ozone, but I got my own generator and started doing the rectal. I think it's called insufflation, something like that. Anyway, you put ozone up your butt. Apparently, I like to put things up my butt, enzymes, ozone, et cetera. But- 

[01:01:16]Matt Gallant:  We've got another thing to put up your butt in a second.

[01:01:18]Luke Storey:  Great. I hope it's not one of you two guys. Whoa. Easy here. Slow down. The kids listen to this show. 

[01:01:25]Wade Lightheart:  That's a bit outside.

[01:01:26]Luke Storey:  But in all seriousness, it was so fascinating when I started doing—I did at least once a day, sometimes twice a day, two minutes of, you know, a really high gamma ozone, probably higher than you're even supposed to. And within a week, I just like didn't crave sugar at all. It was so interesting. I must've been knocking back the fungus or bacteria, the bacteria in there that really craves the sugar. And I was like, oh, my God, this is—for some with a sweet tooth, I found the cure. Put a catheter and some ozone up your poop shoot and you're done with sugar. It's just amazing. In fact, since I started doing that, I kind of have to think about like, oh, mentally, I think I want something sweet, but then I'm able to actually think it through and make oftentimes a wiser decision because my body's just not like, “Oh, give me sugar.” It's really weird. 

[01:02:12]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[01:02:12]Matt Gallant:  Speaking of wazoos and probiotics, one of the protocols that we're big fans of is taking the P3-OM, which again is a single strain of patented strain that is like a Navy SEAL that will clean house as someone that's in defeat against food poisoning. And you can ferment it to make it stronger so you can put it in a coconut water and let it ferment for maybe four or five, six hours, and then do an enema with it, and it'll go and eliminate bad bacteria that might be hanging around there. So, that’s another power move. 

[01:02:43]Luke Storey:  You know, I've done that with probiotics before too. The idea there, guys, by the way, I learned this from Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac because back in the ‘70s, their noses got so melted from snorting so much coke that they started blowing coke up each other's butts. That's how I found out that you have mucus membrane inside your colon and it's permeable. And if you want to get something in your bloodstream, you take it that way. So, that's the whole theory behind this. It's not like a weird kink, but with putting probiotics up there, that's interesting. I didn't realize that that was a way to knock back the bad bacteria. 

[01:03:19]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. 

[01:03:19]Luke Storey:  So, I did—I tried and maybe I got it wrong, I took some of your probiotics and put it in some coconut water, you know, because there's sugar in there to feed the probiotics and I couldn't get it to ferment. At least, it didn't become sour. It was like still sweet, did I still do it right?

[01:03:36]Matt Gallant:  Wade, maybe show us some of the more recent sort of-

[01:03:39]Luke Storey:  Like I was trying to make my own kind of coconut kefir essentially, you know.

[01:03:42]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. So, there’s a couple of things that you need to do in order to create—we've actually got a video. You can kind of go to our site and we actually train it.

[01:03:48]Luke Storey:  Oh, cool. 

[01:03:48]Wade Lightheart:  So, temperature is going to be a big factor. So-

[01:03:51]Matt Gallant:  It's huge. 

[01:03:52]Wade Lightheart:  It's a huge, huge, huge factor. So, oftentimes, I'll actually submerse the concoction that I make. So, I mix coconut water or coconut meat with coconut water. And if you can get Thai coconuts, it's kind of the best, and you kind of blend it all together. If you want to accelerate the process, add a bit of honey. And that the sugars will metabolize much faster. And then, what'll happen is you'll get that fermentation faster. And then, you can take that—if you're not in a warm climate, what you do is you put it in a Mason jar, maybe a quarter to a third full. You can go up to half, depending on how long you want to ferment that mix. Dump all the probiotics in there. The more probiotics you start with the mixture, the faster it's going to ferment. So, a lot of people will only put a couple in there, I'm like, just -

[01:04:37]Luke Storey:  So, how many capsules? Like 10, 20, like that?

[01:04:39]Wade Lightheart:  I think you do better on 10. 

[01:04:41]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[01:04:41]Wade Lightheart:  You know, if you want to do 20, you want to ferment it faster, it's just going to give you a starting base much faster. And the honey will accelerate that if you—and we've got a little video that shows you how to make it up properly and blend it. And then, if you want to accelerate it again, you can put it into low temperature, like maybe at someplace that could heat. So, a dehydrator would work or you could put it in—I've done it with a cooler and I fill it with boiling hot water, and then I submerse the Mason jar in the heat because, you know, again, every temperature degree you go up, you're doubling activity. So, the difference between something at 70 and something at body temperature is a factor of 30X. 

[01:05:26]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[01:05:26]Wade Lightheart:  And so, a lot of people don't like—you know, that's exponential. It's doubling each time 30 times. So, when you look at the growth of that bacteria, it's night and day. And I think a lot of people that run into fermentation problems is because of not enough probiotics to start, not enough temperature, and then adding a little sugar and-

[01:05:45]Matt Gallant:  And maybe not enough sugars.

[01:05:46]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. And you can do that because you're going to vary a lot with coconut water and coconut meat of how much you have. And so, those are the feasible stuff.

[01:05:53]Luke Storey:  Well, when I did it, I didn't have the coconut meat in there, A. B, it was just as warm as it is in my house, which this is only maybe a month ago or something. So, it wasn't that warm, but maybe that was why. But if you've done it right, will it not be sweet anymore? Will it have that sort of that sour effervescent?

[01:06:09]Wade Lightheart:  It'll start to go sour. And if you continue the experiment, it eventually will get beyond sour, and that's when it's not good. So, you ferment it up in kind of a nice like a key for powder or like cream. Once it's fermented, you kind of taste it. And when you get that sour flavor, which is really what any yogurt should be, it should be kind of sour. They add sugar and berries and stuff to make it sweet, but then you take it, put it in the fridge at that point because you want to slow down that growth or you want to bring—as you bring the temperature back down, that means that you're not going to get excessive fermentation where it goes rancid. 

[01:06:44]Luke Storey:  Got it. 

[01:06:44]Wade Lightheart:  And then, you just—what I do for a lot of people, and I think especially if they're dealing with things like candida and stuff like that, you can put it also topographically, right? You just put it right in the vaginal canal and topographically or in the genital area. And then, you can also—I just eat it by the spoonfuls, you know. And then, you're getting a lot more to start than if you're just doing capsules. It's another way you can extend, you know, getting more value out of the caps that you have.

[01:07:12]Luke Storey:  High value. Thank you.

[01:07:13]Matt Gallant:  And the best colonic I've ever done was the fermentation and put in that in the VAT and running that through. And then, the next day, I had some impacted fecal matter that came out that that I've never seen before. So-

[01:07:28]Luke Storey:  Oh, trippy. And that was jarred loose perhaps by the activity. 

[01:07:32]Matt Gallant:  Well, it was broken down. 

[01:07:33]Luke Storey:  Okay. Yeah. 

[01:07:34]Matt Gallant:  Because, you know, again, impacted fecal matter is going to be primarily undigested protein. And sometimes people will feel that, and when you start taking MassZymes or P3-OM, there's a lot of new stuff happening because it's breaking down old things that are impacted in the intestinal tract. 

[01:07:55]Luke Storey:  Back to the heartburn piece, it seems counterintuitive then that if you go through Western medicine, that they're going to prescribe something that stops the production of acid, if that's what the problem is, right? And so, I don’t know if we got to like the solution, but essentially, we want to be adding more acids. So, if someone's suffering from regular heartburn, I think this is what's helped mine, is supplementing with HCl, with hydrochloric acid, especially with big, like, you know, steak, big heavy meals or lots of fat. 

[01:08:26] And it's counterintuitive using the natural approach because you'd think, oh, if I'm taking acid, then it's going to downregulate my own production, and I'm going to become dependent on it. But it seems to me, it was like a couple of years there, I'm supplementing at regular basis with HCl, and then I've really stopped getting heartburn for the most part. And then, I would actually kind of forget to take HCl, like I have you guys, listen, I just forget because I don't get heartburn anymore. 

[01:08:51]Wade Lightheart:  A few key pieces in that. So, simple tests for your listeners to do is take a quarter teaspoon of baking soda, mix it in four ounces of water and drink it. If you don't burp within five minutes, you're not producing enough hydrochloric acids. 

[01:09:07]Luke Storey:  What? Say that again. 

[01:09:08]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, a quarter-

[01:09:09]Luke Storey:  Because that's what I do when I get heartburn, I take baking soda. 

[01:09:12]Wade Lightheart:  You have a quarter teaspoon of baking soda, four ounces of water, stir it all up and drink it. And if you don't burp within five minutes, you have low HCl. 

[01:09:20]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[01:09:20]Wade Lightheart:  That’s a great, easy, simple test for people to test. Now, if you look at the literature-

[01:09:25]Luke Storey:  On an empty stomach, I’m assuming. 

[01:09:26]Wade Lightheart:  Yes.

[01:09:27]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[01:09:27]Wade Lightheart:  And if you look at the literature, the medical literature on proton pumps and these antacid things, the recommended timeline for prescriptions is four to six weeks because they understand that there's going to be complications. And unfortunately, what happens is the doctor, and if you go to the New England Journal of Medicine, it says, you know, we do not cure diseases, we treat the symptoms of disease. So, when ma and pa America walk in the door to the doctor, he's not telling them what he needs to eat. 

[01:10:02] He's not trained in that area. He's not expecting them that they're going to change their lifestyle. His job is to first do no harm and to treat those symptoms, whatever they might be, whether that requires a pharmaceutical medication, whether that's a treatment or whether that's, you know, radiation or surgery, whatever. And then, they take down to particular pathways. And part of the fundamental problem with people in North America is that we think that's the doctor's job to keep you healthy. The doctor's job is to keep you alive in that moment and keep you upright and functional, and will use an array—what I would say, they're very smart people with three basic tools, you know. And they have-

[01:10:47]Luke Storey:  What are those tools? Drug, surgery. 

[01:10:50]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. They got to do, you know, drug, surgery or you know, some sort of-

[01:10:54]Luke Storey:  Or test.

[01:10:54]Wade Lightheart:  ... or some other form of—well, you know, maybe a treatment like radiation or chemotherapy. 

[01:10:59]Luke Storey:  Got it. Okay. Oh, yeah. 

[01:11:00]Wade Lightheart:  Or some sort of like protocol that's developed relative to the condition that your people are dealing with.

[01:11:05]Luke Storey:  Got it. Okay.

[01:11:05]Wade Lightheart:  And so, for us as health people, we have—or people who want to have optimal health or live their high self, they have to recognize that it's really good in those short-term situations. But as soon as you get that treatment, that's where you need to get your ND, your nutritionist, your health expert to give you the specific advice to how do you—number one, you got there because of your lifestyle. And just because you took care of the symptoms, they’re going to be—if you keep doing the same thing, the problem's not going to get better, it's not going to go away. And so, that's something to make a note of.

[01:11:39]Luke Storey:  On the heartburn tip, another thing that I've found useful was I was diagnosed with something called a hiatal hernia. You guys familiar with that?

[01:11:48]Wade Lightheart:  Yes. Yeah. That can also create a problem for people as well.

[01:11:51]Luke Storey:  Well, do you know how to explain it probably better than I do? I know how I fixed it, but I'm curious if you can kind of explain. It's a mechanical sort of air in the system there, as far as I understand it. 

[01:12:03]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. You know, it's basically you can start getting a hole developing and intestine starts to push up in areas it's not supposed to go. And sometimes, it'll come into your leg or something or go up into the lung chamber and stuff. And that can cause problems when you're—with the peristaltic contraction in your stomach that'll push acid up because of the pressure pushing up. So, instead of a gas type of situation where you're flipping the flatter, you're literally that. And as the food goes in, it starts pushing up an acid and it can create all sorts of conditions, gastritis conditions, or it can create heartburn and acid reflux, depending where it's coming and how it's pushing. 

[01:12:41]Luke Storey:  It’s basically like your internal organ is up here, you know, under your ribcage. They're not in the right place, looks like it’s shoved around and it causes these different gastric juices and stuff to go where they're not supposed to go, basically.

[01:12:52]Wade Lightheart:  Correct. And oftentimes, one of the triggers for that is accidents. Car accidents oftentimes will jar people's internal organs and will trigger a hernia. And people don't know that they're not feeling right. Six months later, they're having digestive problems and it's because they jarred it and actually activated a potential of a hernia situation. So- 

[01:13:13]Luke Storey:  Well, for those listening that, you know, can't solve your heartburn through diet and taking HCl and stuff, what was recommended to me by—I forget what kind of practitioner it was that told me about, but he was like—maybe body work or something, he's like feeling up my ribs. He's like, Dude, your stomach's not where it's supposed to be. Do you ever have heartburn?” I was like, “Yes, help me.” So, he instructed me to write when I wake up, have a huge glass of water, drink it quickly, and then stomp on my heels like 10 times in a row and the weight of that water, like in the sack of your stomach, knocks it back down into place. And I'll be damned, it worked.

[01:13:44]Matt Gallant:  Yes.

[01:13:45]Luke Storey:  Yeah. It's crazy. Crazy that one of the most-

[01:13:47]Matt Gallant:  And there's a hack there too with different things, which you're brought up. I mean, sometimes you want to bypass your stomach, and drinking a massive amount of fluids is one of the hacks because it'll just—you know, the, the weight of it will just flow right through. We have a week, he got solution coming out. And that's one of those things. You want it in your intestinal tract, so you just wanted to kind of chug the whole thing so that it goes in the intestinal tract and not hangs around the stomach very much. 

[01:14:19]Luke Storey:  Oh, cool. One thing I did want to talk about leaky gut that I knew these topics were going to be huge and we needed four hours, but we're going to do what we can here. In terms of the gluten issue, I did a show a while back for those listeners, I don't remember the number, but it's Dr. William Davis. And he's one of the foremost experts on, on gluten and the issues with that. And I freaking love bread, dude, like sourdough, baguette.

[01:14:46]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, we enjoyed some last night.

[01:14:47]Luke Storey:  And salted butter like that’s my shit.

[01:14:50]Wade Lightheart:  It’s got a little honey. We had it with a little honey. 

[01:14:51]Luke Storey:  Oh, yeah, of course. 

[01:14:53]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. 

[01:14:53]Luke Storey:  Really great, olive oil, you know, I've just-

[01:14:55]Matt Gallant:  For the record, his mom makes some of the best bread I've ever had.

[01:14:58]Luke Storey:  Really? 

[01:14:59]Wade Lightheart:  She's undefeated on getting people onto bread, like it’s steep. 

[01:15:03]Luke Storey:  Well, I'm, you know—and I'm very disappointed that when I do eat gluten, especially if it's not organic, which, you know, you go to even like an organic restaurant, it's like, is all the flour they're using really organic? It's debatable. But what I have found is you guys have this enzyme called Gluten Guardian. And if I ever do, just feel it in my heart to have a cheat on the bread or the pizza or whatever, I find that if I take more than you recommend, I forget how many you say to take, but I'll just take like a handful of those things, 10 or something like that, and it could be psychosomatic or your shit works, but it bothers me, if at all, way less than it would. And it's not going to do anything for the glyphosate that could be present in the wheat as it is in much wheat, but it's definitely working on the gluten piece.

[01:15:49]Matt Gallant:  Well, going back to my 6,000-calorie Sundays. Yeah, the gluten guardian and the HCl are my go-tos on those days. And adding the HCL really—you know, there's synergy again, you know, there's always synergy when you combine the right things. And combine the HCl with a gluten guardian for me, it gives me pretty close to zero digestive distress despite eating literally three times more than I normally do, and not eating clean food. Like I'll eat burgers and pizza on those days.

[01:16:19]Luke Storey:  Damn. 

[01:16:20]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. 

[01:16:20]Luke Storey:  Okay. I like that. And then, you know, I did a show on probiotics before and uncovered a product called Just Thrive, which is one of my sponsors. I love them. It really helped my gut a lot because it's a spore-based probiotic. So, the theory there is that it doesn't—you know, it hatches in your GI tract and so has a much easier time kind of digging in and fortifying you with that, whereas many of the probiotics on the market don't actually survive the digestive process and you're basically just, you know, you're wasting your money. 

[01:16:52] As you said, the most expensive supplement is the one that doesn't work. If you could kind of summarize in a brief way, again, for people that maybe didn't hear that episode, you know, what's the deal with like the whole, it seems like there's a lot of scams and misinformation in the probiotic department at the health food store. You know, it's like they're really expensive. Some are in the refrigerator. I've taken some—I don't think they do anything at all in there—you know, could spend quite a bit of money on them. 

[01:17:18]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. So, there's a few ways. There are a few things you want to look at. when you're buying probiotics. One is if they're freeze dried, okay, you pull out all the water, they become dormant, and as soon as the water, the hydration hits them, they come, again to come—this spring back to Again, certain strains are extremely resilient. So, freeze drying is one thing that you don’t need to worry, be as paranoid about the refrigeration process, that if they don't freeze dry them, then you need to look at the refrigeration process and, you know, some of the more expensive ones are in that section. And then, of course, if there's any part of the transportation chain that maybe you got warm, too warm, then they might be dead. So, those are certain things to look at. The other big question too is, can it survive the stomach acid? And Wade, why don't you talk about the P3-OM and how it’s designed.

[01:18:14]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. The beauty of P3-OM, I think it's really important to understand that, you know, Matt is a keto guy, I'm a plant-based guy. And we understood there’s a wide variance. We’re at the two extremes and, you know, most people are somewhere between.

[01:18:24]Luke Storey:  You guys haven’t killed each other? 

[01:18:25]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. No.

[01:18:26]Luke Storey:  No fisticuffs?

[01:18:27]Wade Lightheart:  The thing is because we're dietary agnostic. We're about what's optimal. And for him, that's a diet that works really well. For me—For him, not something that I'm—I've experimented with it, didn't work for me. I went on plant-based and he's done a plant-based and he prefers the keto in his life. But what we're totally clear on is about getting your digestive health optimized. And when it comes down to bacteria, there's two basic types that people are dealing with. Implant strains or colonizing strain sometimes, which will develop a colony and grow inside the intestinal tract.

[01:18:59]Luke Storey:  Is that what I'm doing with the spore-based one?

[01:19:01]Wade Lightheart:  That's what you are working on at the spore-based? 

[01:19:04]Luke Storey:  Are you a fan of that, in general?

[01:19:06]Wade Lightheart:  I believe my personal opinion on that is it should be done under the guidance of a naturopathic doctor, where you're actually looking at the specific strains you want and that you're going to have a diet that is going to support those strengths. So, if you took it—look at, say, Matt's microbiome versus mine, we'd have completely different microbiomes because he's been doing keto for over 20 years. I've been doing plant-based for 20 years. We have completely different diets. We wanted to cultivate and develop a probiotic that was able to be universally applicable regardless of the diet. 

[01:19:37] And that's why we throw a transient strain. And a transient strain comes in, does its work, and leaves, goes through the entire body. The next thing we looked at is we looked at what's happening in hospitals today. Hospital today is one of the most dangerous places that you can go to. In fact, a friend of mine who's a surgeon, he put the first stent in the body. And he said, it's so amazing how much surgery he’s come from when he started to now. And you know what, they put a little incision now, this big, they used to have to open you from one side of your body to the other. 

[01:20:10] And he said—but the ironic thing is, he says, half the people that die from surgery today die because of infection. And they die because of infection because bacteria in hospitals, these antibiotic resistant strain bacteria cultures, which have been subjected to massive amounts of antibiotics, a certain amount of those will mutate, and then the antibiotics don't work on them. And that's what's proliferating in hospitals, and it's very dangerous. However, if you take that same principle and you apply an environmental stress to a robust and aggressive strain, we took L. plantarum, put it through an extraordinary process that literally created a super probiotic, just like you take an a military soldier, put them in Navy SEALs BUD/S training, and he comes out as a super soldier. 

[01:21:03] We did the exact same thing with that product, and that's why it's P3-OM. And because of that, you had to prove the process. And in the patent, there's a patent issued on that probiotic, and that means, this is not me making a claim, this is what the patent demonstrated, antiviral antiretroviral, proteolytic, digest tumor and is maintainable in the gastrointestinal tract. And so, the role of that probiotic is to go in there, wipe out the bad guys, eat up the undigested protein that's feeding the bad guys that produce indoles, katal and all the neurotransmitter interruptions that make people feel groggy. 

[01:21:42] You've got brain fog in the morning or crust in your eyes or bad breath every morning, that's not you producing it. That's the bacteria producing it. And you've got to beat those guys down and wipe it out. And if you're going to do that, you want to send the most aggressive strain that you possibly can to go in and wipe that out. And that's what L. plantarum does. And then, ideally, you're going to choose the probiotics that's right for your diet. And have the prebiotics and postbiotics, and that's the big gap where a lot of probiotic companies, they take a single strain research and they say, well, one strain is good, but they'll have eight strains which are competitive. 

[01:22:17] They might not work. You might not have a diet that's going to allow them to grow and support and colonize inside your body. There are all these different factors that aren't well thought out because many supplement companies are built primarily on profits or catching waves or trends that they want to profit from. They put a mishmash of maybes in the bottle. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But the trend is there and people are buying it and they turn and burn people. We've been doing this for 15 years. We've been in this long time because Matt and I are just really passionate about getting our health—we started as personal trainers, and that's why we had this probiotic in specific, and why we're so excited about it. 

[01:22:54] And, you know, it's literally taking us—and we've been in the probiotic conversation a long time, it's taken us 15 years to get comfortable with coming out with our next probiotic to come down to get the right components of prebiotics, postbiotics, the Chinese herbs that are going to support that and accelerate the effect of that and the strain specific to that. And so, it took us a little 15 years to get to the point where we were comfortable producing a different type of probiotic. 

[01:23:21]Luke Storey:  And what about this—and I think I covered this in my episode with Tina Anderson, but I forget what she said, but, you know, I really liked being a MythBuster, and I don't like when companies rip people off. It really bothers me. And I know so many people that want to get healthy or having health issues, they go in a store like Erewhon and drop 800 bucks on a bunch of bullshit.

[01:23:41]Matt Gallant:  That you can do that at the shake bar. 

[01:23:43]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah. And probiotics- 

[01:23:46]Wade Lightheart:  Love Erewhon, by the way. I love that store. 

[01:23:48]Luke Storey:  I do too. 

[01:23:48]Wade Lightheart:  It’s my favorite store.

[01:23:49]Luke Storey:  I'm grateful to spend my money there.

[01:23:50]Matt Gallant:  Love it.

[01:23:50]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, yeah.

[01:23:51]Luke Storey:  Way too much. But, you know, you have, as you said, the different strains. So, some probiotics, you know, they're like, we have 15 strains and people think, “Oh, 15 is better than one”, not necessarily so. 

[01:24:01]Wade Lightheart:  Correct. 

[01:24:01]Luke Storey:  And then, what about how many, you know, CFUs, I think, is how they're measured, you know, so they're like-

[01:24:06]Wade Lightheart:  Colony-forming units.

[01:24:06]Luke Storey:  “15 billion, live, guaranteed”, dah, dah, dah, does any of that gobbly goop mean anything?

[01:24:13]Matt Gallant:  I'll jump in. So, one is, you know, what's more important than the count is the doubling rate. So, P3-OM, depending on the temperature, excuse me, doubles every 20 minutes. So, if you do the math, you know, again, would you rather get $1 million or have a penny double every day for 30 days? If you do the math, you'd be—not pretty sure with the penny. So, that's a more important metric to look at, is like how fast is it doubling? And if you do the math-

[01:24:44]Luke Storey:  And are they going to put that on the label though? I've never seen that. 

[01:24:46]Matt Gallant:  No. 

[01:24:46]Luke Storey:  Okay. 

[01:24:47]Matt Gallant:  No. But we know P3-OM doubles very aggressively. And so, that's one thing to consider, but here's the unfiltered truth about probiotics from a guy that formulates things with probiotics. In my opinion, like at this very moment, we know maybe 1% of what we'll know in maybe 10 years, right? So, there's so—it's such a complex system. There are so many strains. There are competitive strains. There are strains that will beat other strains. Each strain has certain things. 

[01:25:23] And, you know, we do have some data, so we're not completely ignorant, but, you know—and of course I read research all the time and we're discovering new stuff like on a daily basis, literally as far as what's coming out and as far as research. But, you know, there's a lot of—yeah, there’s probably a lot of myths. There's probably a lot of stuff that we believe today. And you know, that's why these podcasts are so important, and just constantly educating yourself. I mean, that's just one of the things about health. 

[01:25:51] There's always new information coming out that makes yesterday's information obsolete. So, I think when it comes to probiotics in general, that's one of the things that to look for. You know, one other comment to talk about as far as probiotics is there are certain strains that produce histamine. So, those are things that you want to look at and you can Google probiotics, histamine, and you will see there are strains that do that. So, that's one. And that will produce brain fog. 

[01:26:18] So, again, going back to Naveen, Wade and I were chatting with Naveen as we were walking at a health event last year. And he said that almost nothing colonizes, like I mean, you are talking about a guy who built a gut health testing company and he's not seeing. And I've looked at a lot of different biome test, including my own, and, you know, almost nothing colonizes as far as what's commercially available. And I saw another study that came out of Europe. They tested 55 different probiotic products and nothing seems to colonize. 

[01:26:58] Now, does that mean there's no benefits as you're taking them? I think there's benefits as it's going through your intestinal tract. So, if you look at it as a digestive aid, I think it has merit, but I think one of the biggest myths is that I'm going to take these strains and they're going to colonize, and then I'm going to be healthier as a result. They don't seem to colonize. We know P3-OM is transient. That's how it was designed. But I think in general, almost nothing seems to colonize. So, it’s probably one of the biggest myths. 

[01:27:30]Luke Storey:  Interesting. And then, what about-

[01:27:32]Matt Gallant:  And maybe the spores do. Again, in-

[01:27:34]Luke Storey:  I mean, that's their big selling point. And there’s a scientist, a friend of mine, I forget his name, a friend of mine interviewed on his podcast that actually came up with this particular strain of the spores. So, when I interviewed Tina Anderson from Just Thrive, it wasn't—you know, we didn't get that deeply scientific because that wasn't her expertise. We've talked about fermented foods and all kinds of different things like that. But from what I understand, that one does and they have—you know, it's been quantified and tested in a lab, but I'm also someone that's like, “Cool, if that one's good and yours is good, I'm just going to take them all. I’m going to head to my bed.” 

[01:28:05]Wade Lightheart:  Well, here's a question, you know, sometimes, we overcomplicate things. And I always say, did you take it and did you feel the benefit? 

[01:28:15]Luke Storey:  Totally. That's it. 

[01:28:17]Wade Lightheart:  That's the deciding factor. 

[01:28:21]Matt Gallant:  The bottom line. 

[01:28:22]Wade Lightheart:  And I think what's really odd about humans today is that somehow, we've lost connection with their own bodies and our own biofeedback. Keep in mind, our bodies are the process of billions of years of evolution. And there are literally millions of reactions going on in any given moment that are just happening automatically. Even a person dying has millions of functions still working at a perfect rate. And because we've become so externalized in our life, we forgot to tune in. 

[01:28:57] And one of the beautiful things that happened to me in my life is my old coach, Scott Abel, in bodybuilding, taught me specifically how to leverage biofeedback. In other words, because I had a training routine, because I had a dietary, he'd say, how do you feel? What's your hunger levels? What's your moods? Are you going in the bathroom? Are you waking up tired in the morning? And I would start to build patterns. Now, what I've done with that, and I recommend this for your listeners, is follow the protocol and start writing down whatever program you're on. 

[01:29:28] Write the program, and if you're taking a new product, write how you're feeling on a day-to-day basis and see the changes. And then, if you get testing, this is where it becomes magic. You start testing in correlation with your biofeedback. And pretty soon, from your biofeedback, you can predict what the testing is going to be. And so, that way, you can get real time feedback of where you are relative to a variety of different tests. And one of the things I love taking new tests for is because now, I can do that test and monitor my biofeedback and go, “Oh, yeah, I'm starting to see this.” 

[01:30:04] And then, you know, three years down the road, I can remember what that was. And I'm like, “Oh, yeah, I'm off here. And I remember I took that back three years ago to correct myself” and boom, you can fix that. And so, I really encourage people to cultivate that mindfulness practice. Take the time, check-in with your body and write it down. And when we coach people, I get a person to write down their whole lifestyle for two weeks. And everybody says they eat pretty good, and then they go through it and they're like, “Oh, it wasn't so good.” And they start seeing their moods or their sleep patterns and stuff, and it's like, “Look, there it is. It's self-evident.”

[01:30:34]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah.

[01:30:35]Wade Lightheart:  And we can correct those patterns relatively easy through lifestyle change. 

[01:30:38]Luke Storey:  I'm also a huge fan of lab test, you know, working with a functional medicine doc. And it's fun to see yourself age backwards. You know, I could look at my labs 15 years ago and they look like shit. And every year, year over year, all the different metrics of testing, and the testing gets more sophisticated over time too, right? 

[01:30:56]Wade Lightheart:  Correct.

[01:30:57]Luke Storey:  You have more options available to the different types of tests you can do. But it's so fun to see. Speaking of which, and we're just about out of time here, and if we can do this in just a couple seconds, but when I recently worked with my doctor, Dr. Scott Sherr, who was recently a guest on the show, talking about hyperbaric oxygen therapy, we did my biome test and came up with decreased pancreatic elastase. So, a pancreatic enzymatic production deficiency. And he wants me to take pancreatic enzymes with meals. Does that make sense to you guys? 

[01:31:34]Wade Lightheart:  Well, let's talk a little bit about humans. 

[01:31:36]Luke Storey:  Okay. I just—I'd be like, we have 30 seconds to answer a question that takes an hour.

[01:31:41]Wade Lightheart:  Humans have a pancreas that's four-and-a-half times—or four times, excuse me, larger per body weight than any other species, larger because we have a highly cooked-food diet and we have to produce more enzymes. So, that's your enzyme storage system, your liver produces most amount of source and it releases it. And if you're not releasing enough enzymes from your pancreas, oftentimes, taking some form of digestive health aid is going to benefit. 

[01:32:03] So, I would certainly say the test is probably correct, although I wouldn't list at the pancreatic enzymes per se because pancreatic enzymes are generally from animal-based source, and they're only usually effective within a very narrow range of pH. And that's where I think for most people, if they go to a cultured enzyme, and we talked about those enzyme ratios, a cultured enzyme is going to be a hundred times to a thousand times more powerful, and chances are they're going to get a much better result with less caps than-

[01:32:31]Luke Storey:  So, you think from your enzymes that I'm taking, the MassZymes that I wasn't taking as regularly when I did this, that I could solve that?

[01:32:38]Wade Lightheart:  Oh, absolutely.

[01:32:40]Luke Storey:  Dope. Okay. 

[01:32:41]Matt Gallant:  There was another issue that I saw, which was fatty stools. And that's a lipase deficiency.

[01:32:48]Wade Lightheart:  I had that challenge. 

[01:32:49]Luke Storey:  That sounds really gross. Yeah, I was disappointed when he had explained that to me. 

[01:32:54]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah, I had that problem when I tried the ketogenic diet. I would find when I hit certain amount of fat in the body, I would get oil in my stools until Matt G. concocted the kApex formulation. 

[01:33:07]Luke Storey:  Oh, nice. 

[01:33:08]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. So, kApex has four different types of lipase. So, if you're in a keto diet or you have your situation, it solves that. But kApex is a little more than just a digestive aid. It's an incredible mitochondrial booster because, you know, what it does, it'll break the fat into fatty acids, the L-Carnitine transports it into the mitochondria, in the muscles and in the liver. And then, there's several ingredients, CoQ10, 7 Keto-DHEA, which activists three liver enzymes, and Innoslim, which activates even the enzymes in the mitochondria even more. So, you're getting the mitochondria kind of going from a V4 to a V12 and you're feeding them more, so you're giving them more fuel. And you’re boosting the motor, the horsepower, if you will. So, you know, if you take four or five caps, three caps in the morning, you'll get eight to 12 hours of energy without tapping your adrenals, which is awesome. 

[01:34:07]Luke Storey:  I love that kApex stuff, dude. I take—I don't even count, but I just—every morning with my first drink of water, just take a big handful of them. Almost like, I don't know.

[01:34:15]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[01:34:16]Luke Storey:  If it says three, like 10 must be better. 

[01:34:18]Matt Gallant:  Yeah. Yeah. We’re the same.

[01:34:20]Luke Storey:  Okay, good. But that's something that we'd also want to be taking. In my case, where I'm in a high-fat diet and my body doesn't digest fat easily.

[01:34:27]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, which is probably one or two caps because it's really potent in terms of the dosage of the lipase. 

[01:34:32]Luke Storey:  Okay. And then, the other thing, the last thing I wanted to cover, and then we're going to do a quick lightning question to close out here, is I've got this klebsiella overgrowth, which, you know, can happen from antibiotic use and IBS and, you know, all this kind of stuff, which is a real bummer, and I think that might be at the root of some of the digestive problems that I’ve been plagued by for a while. And so, my docs got me on, you know, the oregano oil and I'm taking like—I think I'm not on his recommendation when I'm taking this stuff that's like a pine oil, which is super hardcore, kind of like turpentine therapy, you know, similar to that kind of vibe.

[01:35:08]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah.

[01:35:08]Luke Storey:  Because I'm just like, I'm done. I can't have this shit, no pun intended, happening. So, any advice on bacterial overgrowth like that? 

[01:35:16]Matt Gallant:  Well, I think these are effective tools. Another thing to look at is starving it. So, again, there's something that you're feeding it. There’s something that you're eating that's feeding that strain. So, remember what I said earlier, 24 to 48 hours, strains start dying. So, figuring out what is eating that might be difficult, this is where maybe muscle testing would be very helpful, you know, through a practitioner that you would trust as is accurate and kind of having a list of foods and testing and really isolating which food is feeding that, and then eliminating that from your diet for a while. That would be my approach. 

[01:35:55]Wade Lightheart:  And another option that you may want to consider is subjecting yourself to a panchakarma, which is Ayurvedic, which is designed to, you know, you pump all these oils into the fats that push out the toxins. And then, all come the medicated herbs, which are going to cause sometimes vomiting and sometimes, you know, spend a lot of time on the throne. But the effectiveness of that for people who have dysbiosis inside their bacteria cultures is pretty strong. You know, usually, you're going to need three, four weeks, and not everybody can do that, just to take that because it's not something that when you're going through that process that you can go out and, you know, you do your day job. You know, it's not going to work that way. So, it's a very intensive program for people really struggling. 

[01:36:39]Luke Storey:  Cool. Yeah. Someone was just recommending that to me a couple of days ago when I interviewed Sahara Rose, Ayurvedic expert. My last question is, what are you guys coming up with for leaky gut? 

[01:36:51]Matt Gallant:  We have actually two formulas. One is vegan and one is non-vegan. So, it's coming out in the new year, really excited about it. And basically, it seals the gut. So, there are several different ingredients that have been shown to be able to seal and fix that. So, stay tuned. 

[01:37:12]Luke Storey:  Oh, dope. Because this is going to come out in the new year, maybe even as far out as February or March, so maybe by that time. 

[01:37:18]Wade Lightheart:  Yeah. We should probably—we’ll probably have it by then. 

[01:37:20]Luke Storey:  Be rocking and rolling. All right, cool. 

[01:37:21]Matt Gallant:  Yeah.

[01:37:22]Luke Storey:  Normally, this is where I ask who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced you, but I'm running super late for an event that I'm supposed to be and that's a habit that I'm working on breaking. 

[01:37:33]Matt Gallant:  Maybe we can just do one.

[01:37:34]Luke Storey:  Yeah, give me one. So, each of you give me one teacher that's profoundly influenced your life in general that our listeners might be able to-

[01:37:40]Wade Lightheart:  Well, we’ll pick the one that we all do. 

[01:37:41]Matt Gallant:  Yeah, let's do it. David Hawkins.

[01:37:42]Luke Storey:  Oh, nice.

[01:37:43]Wade Lightheart:  David Hawkins, yeah. Best teacher overall for navigating life there is. Read the whole series, watch all the videos, do all that sort of stuff. I haven't seen anybody that's done that, their life hasn't radically transformed and their perception of the challenges they might be going through. 

[01:37:57]Luke Storey:  What a perfect ending, you know. And it's funny because if I ever meet anyone that's not just like, “Oh yeah, I read his book”, or something, but if someone's like into David Hawkins’ work, David R. Hawkins for our show notes writers, I already know they're at certain level of consciousness because no one else would ever be interested in his work unless they were at a certain kind of vibe. So, I always find if I meet someone and we have that in common, I'm like, “Oh, we totally understand each other on a soul level from that standpoint.” So, thank you so much for that. 

[01:38:27]Matt Gallant:  Absolutely. 

[01:38:27]Luke Storey:  That's a great way to end it. Lastly, where can we find you guys? Website, social media, where can people go buy your stuff and do all of the social media things? 

[01:38:36]Matt Gallant:  Well, you know, we have a special link with a discount. So- 

[01:38:38]Luke Storey:  You know, yeah, I don't have it on hand, but I'll give that to your web. We've got a discount you guys gave us, which I don't have in my notes, but I'll put in the intro and the outro for people. What about for people who want to follow you on social? Do you have anything going on?

[01:38:50]Matt Gallant:  Just Google BiOptimizers or we have a YouTube channel that we're starting to put up more videos. Wade produced 84 videos that is, you know, a really valuable series. We are on Instagram, on Facebook, so be with us, BiOptimizers. 

[01:39:05]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Dope. I'm going to go watch the video on getting my kefir game down, but I won't watch the video where you do the rectal implant. What? Okay. That wraps us up, guys. Thanks for joining me today.

[01:39:17]Wade Lightheart:  Great to be here. Thank you.

[01:39:18]Matt Gallant:  Thank you.

[01:39:23]

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