[00:00:00] So, Greg, tell me about your, your wild background. I know you worked in emergency medicine, you've done a few things and now you're, you're one of the top dogs in the longevity technology research space. But I'm always curious how someone arrived to where they are, especially in your case. 'cause it seems like you've done a few things.

Yeah, my, my poor mother still asked me, what do you do now? I know what you did when you were a doctor. What are you doing now? Uh, so e emergency room doctor, uh, for 10 years and then decided to mo make the transition into biotech investing entrepreneur. And because I did math before I did med school, um, I would start, you know, just looking at the numbers is really compelling.

You know, your chance of having a positive proof of concept on retrospective eight year study is 30%. And if it's for an unmet clinical need. It's for a large market and it's best in class or first in class, you can deliver an extraordinary return. You get
[00:01:00] basically about 20 times increase in your number.

And so that made sense to me. But you can't do one drug because you have a 70% chance of failure. So we started out, uh, with our first company motivation, looking for seven to 10 drugs to try and find that one that would deliver the extraordinary return. And we had the very good fortune of doing it. So that was, that was my slippery slope into that.

And then I subsequently, uh, participated in a number, a number of other industries and fields. What was the wildest thing you ever saw in the emergency room? Um, gosh, there's so many. There's so many. I'm tilting my head back and going over it. Um, not, not, you know, the, the one you, the most extraordinary thing is the creativity of people to put an object into an orifice.

That still to this day, I marvel at, at their thought process. That is hilarious. That requires no further detail. I think we get it. That's funny.
[00:02:00] Yeah. I, I, I often marvel, I'm, I, I'm just fascinated by medical professionals in general that are around that level of gore. You know, whether it's a surgeon, I've, I've interviewed a neurosurgeon on here a few times, and I'm always going like, what's going through your mind when you cut someone's skull open and expose their brain and start working with it?

You know, just, it's hard for, it's hard for us civilians to imagine, um, just getting acclimated to seeing the inside of human bodies and what happens when they get cut open and so on. You know, it's just fascinating to me. It was interesting, you know, when you started anatomy, they were very clever. You know, they started with the chest and they already had prepped it by opening it and suturing it back up, and they just.

That just doesn't seem to offend you as opposed to, you know, taking the skull off, seeing a brain or anything on the face. So there was a gradual
[00:03:00] introduction. You see the heart, the lungs, and I think for the professionals, you know, because they do a day in and day out, you, you just, it becomes more like your place of work than the context that I'm now about to cut into somebody's brain, you know, which obviously would affect how you think about the world and, and your performance, right?

So let's talk about, uh, longevity, a passion we both share. Um, absolutely. Maybe, maybe for some different reasons. Um, from my seat here, interviewing so many people, uh, in the health and wellness space over the years, it's been coming up on 10 years now. I don't know, 600 early adapter, 600 something conversations at this point.

Um, and it, it seems when you get into the really cutting edge longevity stuff that many people have. A motivation, you know, to live to these astronomical, uh, ripe old ages. And, uh,
[00:04:00] to me it's, I think from my own perspective, all the things that I do to support my health are more about just feeling as good as possible for as long as possible.

But I'm not so hung up on the duration, you know? You know what I mean? And, and I wonder, uh, and I wonder, there seems to be a couple camps here. One being, you know, I wanna live forever and stay in this body. And then my perspective, not that one's right, but mine's just not really that concerned how long I'm here, but just, I don't wanna feel like crap while I'm here.

Um, I wonder if there's something in one's worldview in terms of your level of confidence in the afterlife, whatever that might mean to you, versus someone who has a very. Kind of material view of the human experience and that this body and this lifetime is the only shot I've got. And maybe those people tend to clinging to the, the longevity in terms of
[00:05:00] how many years.

Um, more so than someone who, like myself, has a pretty strong sense that I'm much more than the human body and the human body is more like a car that I'm driving around for a few years to learn some lessons on Earth's goal. What's your perspective on, you know, how different, how you've observed different people or yourself approach longevity from that perspective?

One of the things Luke, I found extraordinary when I was practicing medicine was people had a greater fear of the unknown than even getting a very bad diagnosis. So telling somebody they have cancer, they go, oh, okay, I can deal with that. But not knowing what it was was tro out was problematic, which I think also speaks to the.

Element of the unknown. I mean, they, you may believe in the afterlife or uh, spiritualism or that you're gonna join the universe, but we really don't know. So I think that a lot of people are just, I don't know. So let's optimize at the, uh, for
[00:06:00] the moment I've been really surprised that people, 'cause when I'm doing a presentation at a conference or public speaking, I ask people three questions.

Think of it. How long do you want to live under current medical system? They come up with a number. How long would you like to live if you're healthy? Different number, how long would you like to live? If I could optimize you, so you stated at age 25. As far as anatomically and physiologically, most people it's three different numbers.

25, 30% of people still stick with like 85. I'm done, even if I'm healthy, to which I always say, let's talk when you're 84 and still see if you're, if 85 is the number or not. But uh, so I think religion certainly plays a role. You know, it gives people a sense that, okay, if things go bad and then there's that aspect of health, am I going to be healthy?

And so I subscribe to what you do. It's why Juve Essence, the company we started was all about increasing how long you stay healthy,
[00:07:00] which presumably will increase your longevity. But that was way more important than absolute allowing you to live to 120. But you're in a wheelchair, you have Alzheimer's last 20 years of your life, right?

Right. I mean, that's, that's the thing. There's so many parts about being a protoplasm, being that just wear down. I mean, I think about just mobility and your joints over time, no matter how healthy your heart or your brain is. I mean, there's just the physical structure of the body. Seems to get worn out regardless of how healthy your diet might be and things like that, you know, so, uh, and gravity, gravity and sunlight, you know, play a role.

Right, right. Um, so what, what's the latest and greatest in terms of what you're seeing on the forefront of longevity? From the lens that we just sort of highlighted that it's not about how long you live, but how well you live and
[00:08:00] lifespan versus health span and so on. What do you, what are you seeing in terms of.

You know, exponential progress in the near future that might change things, uh, in a way that's meaningful. We're in an amazing moment in human history that we can actually begin to legitimately talk about modifying aging and your health trajectory. So things, I think the epigenetics is amazing. You know, if we can reprogram cells back to a younger state, that's extraordinary.

Uh, I think we're on the brink of sorting that out without inducing cancer. Um, there's a company that we invested in. I was delivering a, a presentation, a conference. Somebody comes up, there's this person that can regrow limbs at Tufts University, and I'm like, okay, yeah, um, sure, gimme their number. Uh, but I found Mike Levin and lo and behold, he'd cut off the leg of a frog and frogs shouldn't regrow their leg.

And 18 months later, he had a fully functioning leg regrown.
[00:09:00] Um, he's now done it with a digit on a mouse. Wasn't able to replace the whole digit, but at least the first phx. So that's amazing. You know, regrowing limbs really, uh, regrowing potential to regrow a, an organ, your organ, you know, not a transplant.

So, so much happening so fast, crisper, um, epigenetics. We'll, hopefully we'll figure out the sly story. The one thing I'll say is, having done this now for almost as long as you, um, the complexity is extraordinary. You know, this dose of that medication optimizes for lifespan. This dose decreases your lifespan.

What's good for you is completely different for me. You know, we have the four major pathways that cause your cell to age, MPK, mTOR, Tuin, and NAD. They're in a feedback loop. If I increase NAD really high, what does it do to the other three? And it, and so I think until we get
[00:10:00] quantum computing, this is gonna be a bit of a dance that we're not gonna master.

What role do you think AI's going to play in terms of a positive contribution? You mean what Deep Minds is doing is amazing with the proteins, uh, that's gonna play an enormous role. You know, everybody's focused on their genes, but we know there's 20,000 genes. There's, you know, 200,000 proteins and there's millions of metabolome.

So, you know, you're gonna need AI to sort that out. It's also gonna have a profound role in drug, uh, clinical trials, drug development. You know, right now, you know, when I, when my first company had a cancer drug and we had to have eight, wait 18 months to have an interim readout of whether we were seeing overall survival, the AI could have predicted it perhaps in two months.

You know, getting our drug on market faster for the patients. Um, enormous savings. Um. So it's gonna, it's gonna be quite remarkable all that AI can do it, it seems from
[00:11:00] my perspective, that this field has an element of treading water in, despite the progress, in the sense. I mean, there's so many reasons for that, but one, if I zoom out just as a meta perspective of human health in general, we're living in an unprecedented time of toxicity on all levels from blue light, EMF, to fluoride in the water.

You, I mean, you could, we could go on for two hours, right? Uh, and then nutrient deficiencies, obviously we're, we're not eating a paleolithic, uh, varied diet, right? An omnivore diet that's including all the fat soluble nutrients and minerals and so on. So it's like. Humans overall are really deficient in what the body needs to thrive and achieve longevity, and also has all of this toxicity working against it.

And that seems to be growing, uh, at a rate that is
[00:12:00] also exponential. You know, so it's like there's, there's these advances in science and which we're gonna be talking about, but yet at the same time we're, we're kind of sicker than ever before. So how do you see, or when do you see that ratio kind of coming into balance or the longevity and, you know, technological innovations in health moving ahead of the deficit?

Do you know about the study that was done at UCLA in 2018 where they gave people two drugs, three supplements, and using horvat DNA clock, they were able to, within one year at two, knock two years off their biological age. So. Yeah, so it was Greg Faye, uh, was the, and, and it was growth hormone, which I don't recommend.

That's a whole different issue. Metformin, which is, uh, one of the drugs absolutely depends on idiosyncratic, good for you, not good for me. And then zinc fish oil
[00:13:00] and vitamin D three. And that had that profound effect. Uh, so that was, that was really fascinating 'cause they were eating a normal diet and and exposed to all the toxins you, you've alluded to.

Uh, so I, I think there is a mismatch. We do need to be aware, um, the number one way to live long is education. Number two is money. Um, so the more people learn, the more that they can take charge of the environmental factors that you've alluded to, is gonna be a huge thing. Lifestyle's a monster. And it's why at Juve Essence, when we, we were doing a comprehensive, trying to be the, the aging company.

So whether it was supplements, um, creating, uh, a website where you could mo learn all these things you could do in a modifier age to conventional drugs, to regeneration of tissues. So I'm hopeful, I'm more hopeful that we will sort that out and that people will learn what they should and shouldn't be doing.

Yeah. The education piece is, is really
[00:14:00] important. As someone, you know, when I got into this stuff, there wasn't the word biohacking or anything. You were just a health nut. That's what you call it. You're a health nut. You eat a organic diet and maybe do hyperbaric chambers, you know, whatever was around 28 years ago or so.

Um, and then now there's, there's this whole industry around it, which I think is, is wonderful. But it's been fun for me to observe. Uh, just the level of public awareness around these kind of issues. When I started out, you know, and talking about EMF, I mean, people would look at me like I was wearing a tinfoil hat, you know, and now there's at least some level of awareness around that.

So I think it's been a really positive thing in terms of independent media like mine and many others, podcast books and so on, YouTube channels where social media, this information's getting out in a way that it never has before. I think early on you would have to be someone who was
[00:15:00] really faced with some health challenge to start exploring outside of the traditional medical system.

And now we're leaning more into a preventative, uh, mindset for younger people, um, that are getting interested in this stuff that haven't necessarily hit the wall or have Lyme disease or mold exposure or something like that, they're. Looking at the writing on the wall going, Hey man, I better, I better pay attention to this now.

And thankfully there's so much information out there. Uh, but what about the disinformation? And I don't mean disinformation, that's antip pharma, disinformation. I mean, in terms of people just wanting to make money selling supplements that are either inferior or in some cases toxic or totally ineffective.

You know, there's a lot of obviously bandwagon jumping as public interest grows, there's a lot of entrepreneurial spirits out there that are like, Ooh, I could make a buck if I put out, you know, a
[00:16:00] supplement, let's say again. We, I come from a drug development background, and so when we were looking about how to enter this, uh, in 2017, the number one thing that was paramount to me was credibility.

And we, we live in a world that has a crisis of trust. We don't trust government. We don't trust, uh, industry. We don't trust doctors anymore. You know, it's, it's, it's profound. So you have to be incredibly credible with whatever you're presenting. So you don't compromise that because the charlatans are huge.

You know, Luke, you and I know and your listeners, you walk into a drugstore anywhere in the world, you're gonna see a hundred things that say they're anti-aging. And I'll tell you now, they're not. So, you know, to deal with that issue is, is a big deal. And it, it's. It's, you know, hopefully, and there's a few people who aspire to it, it would be enormous to have that voice of trust, somebody who is
[00:17:00] incredibly credible and gave a very measured response.

You know, this is what, what we believe at this point in time may turn out to be wrong and more clinical studies that need to be done, but this is how we see the world in the health span in this various treatment, whether it's toine or uh, or red light therapy. So enormous that in, in accolades to Luke, to you and to the other people who are trying to create that credible link of information and say, this isn't real.

Or By the way, this is a fantastic study, but it needs to be repeated. So yeah, it's, it's a big issue In our, in the area we're in, there was a, a conference called RAD and, and they have a lot of the more fringe therapies and somebody was selling hotdog water for ketones. So he literally boiled hot dogs, took the water, and was selling it to people and they sold, they were selling some there.

That's hilarious dude. Uh, well ca case in point, I
[00:18:00] mean, I think one of the services that I do my best to provide the world is to be the lab rat researcher that's really willing to dig into all of these different interventions and technology supplements and so on. I mean, I get approached by brands constantly and the first thing I do is go to the ingredient list on the supplement bottle, go to the FAQ, look for studies.

I mean, I really dig hard to try to poke any holes in it. Then if I feel like it passes the snuff for me to try, if I trust it with my own body, uh, you know, I'll try it out and then see if I got results and then start talking about it, you know. But I think oftentimes people skip a couple of those steps and they just.

You know, things get trendy and, and start kind of making the rounds on social media, and all of a sudden people are making a lot of money. And also people are wasting a lot of money on things that are inevitably expensive. P you know, as I like to say. Um, so
[00:19:00] in, in the realm of research and data and clinical studies, something that's been challenging for me is learning that many, uh, studies are are not really valid.

You know, there's a lot of studies that seem skewed. So when I look at a company's website and okay, there's a couple studies, those are impressive. And then I hear, well, only 20% of studies are actually legitimate, or whatever it is, you know, it, it's 25% of published, published clinical trials, 75% cannot be repeated by a third party lab.

What, what, what is up with that? I mean, is that just human error or is there some sort of conspiracy there with people just spending money to produce studies that get the result they want to use for marketing purposes? It, I, I actually, every couple of weeks I take a variety of clinical trials and articles in popular press and I actually put out an email and say, this one's credible, this one's not.

They didn't do enough people. It's in mice and mice don't translate
[00:20:00] to humans, which is a lot of the problem. Um, and then it depends, as you know, you'll get a very different answer on your podcast depending on how you pose the question. You know, I, I can say sit down five different ways that have, will be taken five different ways.

Sit, sit down. Would you like to sit down? I mean, there's just, so I think the same with these trials is how they ask it, what population they, they pick for the clinical trial. How big is it? So those are the variables. And then when somebody's trying to find out if it's, if it's right, that's a whole different study.

And, and by the way, it's the same in drug development. If I only got one product, I'm, I am not asking whether I'm asking a question. So I won't fail 'cause my company goes versus the drug, you know, pharmaceutical company wants to kill it as quick as it can and move on to the next drug, which is again, why we do seven to 10 drugs and the supplements that we have because of this credibility issue.

You know, we have a
[00:21:00] ketone product. I ran the clinical study. I can tell you if you take it in 15 to 30 minutes, you'll be in ketosis and you'll stay there for three to six hours. I can tell you that Ohio State University, uh, Madison Kirk ran a study on, um, women with PCOS and 57% of the women got their periods back who hadn't had periods, but it was a sample of seven people, you know, so, you know that that would be erroneous to, you know, and the popular press would pick that up and blow it up.

But that's a small study that now needs to be properly repeated, properly adjudicated in a placebo ma manner. But that's what I, in supplement, most supplement companies don't do that, but because we have a pharmaceutical company at the top, we have to do it. Well, side note, and we'll, I wanna definitely talk about ketosis and ketones, uh, further in the conversation, but I'll just say, your ketone product is freaking amazing, dude.

And that was one when I figured out
[00:22:00] you were the guy behind that, I was like, yeah, I definitely want to talk to him because it's, I don't know, you're the first person that's made. Ketones that work actually edible, which is incredible. But I, I, I actually used mine last night 'cause I was like, oh, I'm talking to Greg tomorrow.

You know, I should definitely be up on the ketones during the conversation. And I, it was my last scoop. Um, so, uh, that's how, but I go, I appreciate it. I go through it very quickly. Uh, but going back to the studies, there's the, you know, the side of it that we're talking about now is how critical it is that these studies are done and that we have some discernment about, um, the validity we, we apply to them based on, you know, the fact that they're done.

Right? Or, or not. The other side of that challenge, as I've seen it, is there are so many brilliant and well-meaning. Inventors, chemists and and
[00:23:00] so on that are, are making progress in innovation. But because they don't have the funding for the clinical trials, they can't really prove what they're doing.

Right. So you, you have kind of, you know, what's a, a very logical, and I think a needed barrier to entry, which is keeping charlatans out of the space. But then because the trials are so expensive, who can afford to do them if they don't have, you know, a drug company or something like that, right? Where you have, um, the capital to do that.

So it's like, there are people that are kept outta the space that could be making a meaningful contribution, but you know, they're just, it's a startup. It's some guy in his home lab that figured something out that's really cool and useful, but there's no coin there to really get behind it to prove that it's valid.

The discrepancy between the amount of money that is gone into ai. Um, natural language, uh, tech in general versus the amount of money that's
[00:24:00] gone into one. One of the most startling things we might be able to do, which is to modify how people age. It's got, it's gotta be 50 to 1 and the giant sucking sound that you heard the last three years was all the money go DC money going into AI and LLM and we had a biotech winner.

You could, you, you got great companies who couldn't get financed. So not only do you have these scientists you've just referred to, and then obviously the current administration has cut off a lot of money to the universities, so that's gonna be problematic as well. So yeah, it's, it's, it's sad that this has such a profound effect on the human condition and yet we completely lack capital.

So you sing it to the choir here. Going back to something you mentioned earlier about the regrowth, uh, of limbs. I, I get, this book is referenced so often and I'm embarrassed that I haven't read it and that I, I'm not sure if it was Robert O. Becker or Bob
[00:25:00] Becker. I think the book is The Body Electric, uh, where he, he, he was using PEMF to regrow salamander Tails or something like that.

Are you familiar with that? And is there a relationship between the limb growth that you're referring to and the PEMF kind of work that he was doing? It, it, it would be a, a magnitude of, uh, increase in the science from what he was referring to. What, uh, Mike Levin is doing. Professor Levin, basically, when you go from embryo and become a fetus, your cells talk to each other.

You're gonna become the bone, I'm gonna become the me the muscle, and, and, you know, and you don't have a choice. It's literally a signal is sent to you what to do. And what Levi and Kaplan at, at, uh, Tufts have figured out is, let's use a supercomputer. To see how they're talking to each other and they're doing it through electrical impulses, ionomers.

So yes, that would be a a that, I don't know, disrespect to Bob
[00:26:00] the primitive application. This is the next generation and there's, we probably need super computers and quantum quantum computing to get to the next level. Where I can tell my cells here, if I've had an amputation to regrow a hand, even as an adult, a 7-year-old child under seven who cuts off the tip of their finger, it'll regrow the cells still have, retain that quality to cause the regrowth.

Now we need to figure out what that signal is to translate it so that we can apply it to regrow a kidney or whatever. So it's science fiction becoming science. It's, it's extraordinary. And that's why I said we're living one of the most amazing times for human humanity, uh, to affect the human experience.

Not only the health span, how long you live, but uh, if you've had an injury, well imagine, and I'm sure you have, when we're able to really dial in, say
[00:27:00] those specific frequencies that can map and then in inform, you know, your knee, what needs to be rebuilt, right? And we're, we're putting that energy into the knee and then we finally figure out how to get stem cells to, to stay alive longer and to ho hone into a specific area where they're really needed.

Right? I mean, I've had a lot of stem cell injections and some of them have been localized, you know, according to what I wanna work on. But you have no way of really knowing if they're gonna. They're gonna stick around and do what you want 'em to do in your knee versus just going systemic or just kind of, you know, uh, be becoming senescent and dying like your other cells are.

You know? So it's like, I think a lot of these things hopefully are going to converge and start to compound where we can integrate some of these different modalities that are siloed now and people are doing a lot of research in different areas. But do you think there'll
[00:28:00] come a time in the near future where some of these modalities will be able to be potentiated by stacking them intelligently with respect to, you know, the stem cells?

So, um, you, are you aware of the Yemen ACA factors and so the guy named Yemen won the Nobel Prize with these factors that will take an adult cell and te and cause it to basic generate so I can make a nerve. What Kaplan 11 are doing is further earlier in the pathway where they can literally not just grow a ne nerve, they can grow the whole complex organ.

And to your point about the stem cells, this is also gonna factor in to the degree that we do and don't need them to integrate into this story is, is gonna be fascinating to see. And I don't know the answer. Um, but to your point, the, so we, I, I, we were involved with a stem cell company and, and somebody said, oh, it's gonna be great.

We'll be able to, you know, you, you got a meniscus tear, we'll inject these stem cells in and the
[00:29:00] meniscus cell will grow. Um, but the root cause of osteoarthritis is seno tic cells. So I was talking to Kirkland, uh, Dr. Kirkland, who's at the Mayo Clinic, and he said, we have no idea in an osteoarthritic knee whether 10% of the cells.

And, and for the audience, lytic being they've, they've stopped functioning and now they're leaking. They're at a, there's zombie cells that are causing horrible inflammation in your eye, in your brain, or in your knee. It would get rid of them would be fantastic. And, but Kaplan says, or sorry, uh, Kirkland said, I don't know what percentage it could be 50%.

Well, if I'm putting that agent into your knee, you're not walking outta my office if I've destroyed 50% of the cells in your knee, and by the way, I then need to flush it to be able to put the stem cells in to hopefully regrow the tissue. So, yes, to long-winded answer to could have said yes. Yes, you're right.

I mean, I'm just imagining, I don't know that we, we have so many
[00:30:00] incredible breakthroughs. That are, are promising, but again, they're sort of existing in isolation, you know? And that, I mean, that's what it takes, right? Because you, in order to, in order to, um, determine what it is that's actually having a positive effect, you have to isolate that.

I mean, that's the whole premise of, uh, of doing a controlled study, right? But I'm looking forward to the time when they start to converge and we go, okay, ah, this thing works and this thing works. How can we find a way to put them together synergistically and, you know, really have compound effects? So I guess I'll keep doing things in isolation until, until someone figures out how to put it all together.

'cause I've got the PMF and I can get stem cells. It's like, it makes sense if we could figure out a way to, you know, help them potentiate the effects of one another. Um, what, what, uh. What are some of your personal strategies? You know, are you doing anything that's super,
[00:31:00] uh, technologically advanced in terms of working with different devices or, or different treatments and things like that?

I mean, you're, you're, I don't know how old you are, but you look like a, a really healthy fit guy. You seem probably based, you know, we're on the internet, but I would say you're probably a few years older than I and you're looking really good. I'm a lot, I'm a lot older than you. I think, um, the number one thing you can do that we know as far as is lifestyle is fitness.

You know, uh, Walter Bortz who was that if, um, geriatrics at Stanford said if you're fit, you mentally and physically decline at half a percent a year, unfit 2% a year. It's a huge quantum, right? Um, so that's number one. Um, so, and I, and I noticed that with my peers, if they're fit. Same age as me, completely different.

You know, it's similar. If they're not huge difference, then, you know, then the next ones are obviously the usual suspects, nutrition, sleep, properly hydrated.
[00:32:00] Um, so I don't think I'm doing anything. I definitely biohack, um, I get to talk to the top scientists in the world and ask them what they're thinking, where they go.

Um, are there any that, that I'm doing that are extraordinary? What I tell myself and others is, is it safe? And if it's safe and there's is some interesting studies, even if it's not fully vetted, I'll, uh, then I'm comfortable taking it. And those are the big ones. I do think that, the one that I'm probably doing that a lot the other people aren't is, um, one is rebalancing my hormones to more youthful state.

But not in isolation as a package. And everything I do in this area, whether it's supplements or drugs, I wanna bring you back to a physiological level when you're 30. I'm not trying to cause a spuriously high level of ketones or a crazy high level of NAD and simply with the hormones, I think you want get that rebalance, the progesterone, the estrogen, the,
[00:33:00] the testosterone, all in the right balance.

And the other one is rapamycin that I take that is, uh, still not ready for prime time. And anyone listening, it's a discussion with your physician. 'cause it's a complicated drug and we don't know the right dose. What about astaxanthin? I think it's a, it's, I would put it in the safe category. Um, interesting.

But I haven't seen enough that I would say absolutely everyone needs to be on astaxanthin. And by the way, the sgl l you know, SGLT2 and the GLP 1s are. Definitely the first anti-aging drugs, not because they affect how you age, but just because they lower your chance of dying, of neurological disease, cardiovascular disease, and you know, metabolic disease.

So they are profound with the GLP one drugs. Uh, have you seen, as I've seen, uh, a lot of sort of, um, what would you say like. Just fear around, um,
[00:34:00] you know, people going blind. And I, I just, I see things on social media about, um, about those drugs in general. And I, I haven't looked that deeply into it 'cause it's just, it's not something I'm interested in it exploring personally.

Um, but there seems to be some downside there. But I don't know how much of it is real because people like to get clicks on their social media posts and so they say outrageous things. Right. Um, but you, you're framing the GLP one drugs as something that could be life enhancing and even promote longevity.

Have you seen any validity to the claims, uh, in terms of their risks and downsides? You know, it, it's gotta be, I know it's probably. Three, 400 million people probably using it by now. I mean, I don't know the number, but it's a staggering number. It's definitely an active drug pe Somebody's gonna react badly to it unequivocally.

Um, the blindness, um,
[00:35:00] certainly haven't seen it reported. And there's, you know, we talked about credibility for researchers. Um, a researcher would love to be the one that calls out the GLP ones and says, oh, by the way, I've now done a meta-analysis and it unequivocally causes blindness. Um, and whether it's in this population or that population, is it diabetes, stroke?

You know, diabetes affects your, your, your, our, our, your ocular system and your ophthalmic system. So you, again, what's that? What's the disease? What's the, the drug? Um, I don't think it's for everybody. And, um, and it'll be interesting to see when they start microdosing. You know, where, where that fits in the equation and the increase in longevity and the decrease in the, in the pathologies, is that somebody who's a type two diabetic who's gonna, you know, have in or at increased risk of those pathologies anyway?

Or is it really gonna decrease it in the Hollywood actor who's taking, you know, the GLP ones to look good in their next
[00:36:00] movie? What role does human connection, uh, social life, family, faith, things like that, that are um, more metaphysical emotional, play into longevity? It's the number one way to live. Long, as I said, is education.

Number two, money, number one way to live through a hundred is exactly that connection, A sense of purpose, part of a community, respected, and they'll play an enormous role. We're seeing, and, you know, we're in another crisis or tragedy. To your point about our, our world, loneliness is. Uh, you know, epidemic right now.

So yeah. Big, big deal. I, I asked that because I've been writing a book about loneliness for the past two years, and, uh, good for you. Uh, about, about to turn my fi, my final revisions in after a very, very long and arduous journey. Funny thing I've noticed, uh, have you done any writing, you know, like long
[00:37:00] form writing?

I'm just, yeah. Just about to write a book on investing longevity in biotech because, you know, to your, or to circle back to something you say about, you know, the money to fund the researchers who found something profound. The number of times I've heard, I can't invest because I don't have an MD or a PhD in biotech, and Warren Buffet says, you shouldn't invest unless you understand the sector T, which I save.

You bought shares of Nvidia. Well, yes, I have. Gimme a brief rundown on how the Blackwell chip works, right. The same thing. You know, you, you wanna find trusted, respected people, um, to be able to do this. And so I think that, you know, it's circling back that that's a, that's a big deal in how the world thinks about these, these things.

And we gotta get the money in, um, to, to address it. We definitely need to address mental health, particularly if we do increase how pe, how
[00:38:00] long people are living. 'cause they're gonna have a greater chance of loneliness. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I, I found this, uh. Persistent irony in, in writing. That's why I asked, you know, if you've, if you've done some writing and you, and you'll know this as you write your book, which I'm looking forward to.

It's slow. It's, oh man. It's, it's just, it's such a solitary, creative expression, you know? I mean, you and rereading what you've just read to see the next stake. It's, uh, so I, I, I, I've gotta use my ketones to, to uh, to, to stay alert and function. Totally. But yeah, it's, it's one of these things, uh, I mean, I guess there's a lot of artistic expression.

I mean, if you're painting a painting, you're not usually doing it in a collaborative way. But it's been funny for me, writing a book about loneliness and realizing the very process of creating it has been so isolating because it's like. No one understands what you're doing. You know, it's been two years.

How you doing, Luke, can you,
[00:39:00] can you come hang out? I'm like, the book, the book, you know, it's just, it's a, it's a, it's, it's a funny, funny, well, good idea. It's certainly something that's needed. When you've tried our ketones, what, what has been your experience? What do you feel? And when you took it last night, were you able to fall asleep immediately afterwards?

Had you wanted to? Uh, yeah. It, I think it's improved my sleep. If anything. Uh, I, I pay a lot of attention to my sleep hygiene. Um, I mean, it's one of the things I'm always kind of doing trial and error and e experimenting around a lot. Um, one of the things that I've noticed that. Is sometimes detrimental to my sleep is if I don't eat enough throughout the day, which is pretty common for me 'cause I'm just not really interested in food, uh, in general.

Um, but if I go to bed and I haven't eaten a lot, I'll wake up with the cortisol spike in the middle of the night and be totally amped, right? So I, I keep a little jar, I keep a jar of honey next to the bed and I'll take a teaspoon
[00:40:00] of honey and that usually, you know, gets the glucose back in order and helps me fall asleep.

But I find with the ketones, even if I haven't eaten a lot of food in terms of calories, I've got fuel to do what the brain and body are trying to do, uh, throughout, you know, the process of sleeping. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the things that's. Such, like the coolest thing about ketones and the way that you've done it, as I said, because they're actually edible, um, is that I try to explain it to people, well, what does it feel like?

And well, it gives you energy and I think people think of energy like something that's very stimulating, like caffeine or various nootropics and ketones are, you know, speaking to your ketone product, um, are not stimulating at all. Like they don't seem to have an effect on the nervous system in terms of amping you up.

Um, it's just, it's the kind of energy, I explain it like, you're really tired
[00:41:00] and you just had a great nap and you wake up and you're refreshed and you have energy, right? But you, it's not like you can't focus and you're shaky and you know, tweaked out like you would be from taking stimulants, you know? So.

I've, I freaking love it. And that you guys have, like I said, cracked the code and I don't know how you did it, but you know, I think the one I was using last night, I had a couple bags of your product. The one I was using last night was the coffee creamer, but I just made it into a smoothie, you know, 'cause it didn't want to drink, didn't wanna drink coffee at night.

Um, but I mean, I could just put it in water and it's like, barely has a flavor, which is, which is pretty incredible. But before that, um, I haven't done a show on, you know, keto diet and ketosis and stuff for a long time. Um, I think because I became so disillusioned with how trendy it became, a, and I tried the keto diet a couple times many years ago when it
[00:42:00] first started hitting the scene.

And I, I mean, it was just impossible. Like, it was, it was impossible to not eat carbs because it's like everything except a steak has carbs, you know? Um, so I just, I just found it to be. Problematic from that perspective. Um, and I, I like carbs. I mean, I like to eat blueberries and honey and, you know, sometimes, well, let me be, let me be honest, a lot of the time, uh, ice cream and things like that.

Um, so let's, let's just kind of do a 1 0 1 on ketosis and ketones for people that have maybe heard the word or experimented with it like I have and, you know, gave up on it because it was so difficult or they just didn't feel well. So ketones are related to acetone, which is nail polish remover. So you can imagine the work that it had to be, go into it so that Le Luke could enjoy it in a glass of water without the colorful things that people say about ketones on online.

So
[00:43:00] there's two ways to go into ketosis. One is the Luke and I don't eat for the next 36 hours, and we break down all the sugar in our muscles and our liver, and then we have to turn to get our energy source from our fats. We start digesting their SA fat and it turns into ketone bodies, goes to the liver, turns into something called B-H-B-B-H-B can replace glucose or sugar as an energy source for the cells in your body.

The cells in your body are better served if they're using ketones than if they're using sugar. As we've all learned too much about the effects of sugar heart per most, A lot of people say that heart prefers the ketones. So if I have french toast and I took, uh, our product qi tone, you'll, you'll get high sugar, but you'll also have high ketones.

The sugar unfortunately used by the brain, the ketones by your heart. So the. That's one way to say is we stop eating and we go into ketosis, which has a couple effects. One is we
[00:44:00] know that fasting does seem to play a role in energy preservation. You have your cells, and so that's, that's a good part. And the second thing is the ketones are better for a lot of your cells scientists began to explore, and the one we got is from an place called the Buck Institute, which is 200 of the top scientists in the world trying to solve aging in Northern California.

And, and we know that I don't have to starve myself to go into ketosis. I can simply take ketone esters are better than ketone salts. I think most of the research will probably substantiate that. And I will go into ketosis and I said, 50 to 30 minutes after taking our product, you'll be in ketosis.

You'll stay there for three to six hours. And, and so. That will put you into ketosis, but you can still either eat a normal diet, but now you'll get the good benefits, which is ketones will be used by your cell, but you won't get the added benefit of the fact that you're fasting other than ke ketones do Actually, if you take it in the morning, you don't
[00:45:00] feel hungry for quite some period of time.

So why is key? There's a thousand studies that talk about why being in ketosis, either through starvation or through, um, or diet or, or a ketone diet, as Luke said, or taking this pro, uh, of an endogenous ketone, a supplement that you take, uh, why those are good for your heart, for your brain, for your liver.

It's just, it's just tremendous. So, uh, and you see, university of California Davis did a study and found that mammals that are regularly in ketosis live 13% longer, which would be 10 years if it translated to humans, and it may or may not. So yeah, we're looking at it both as a supplement, but also at a drug.

For heart, for heart conditions, and also to protect the brain in the case of trauma. It's, it's quite ex an extraordinary product and it's a food, it's safe, it's used by three of the teams in the Tour de France after they've, they've ridden
[00:46:00] the bike to speed the recovery before they have to go up and ride another 200 miles the next day.

So, uh, that, that might explain the positive effects on sleep. Because it's a similar kind of thing, right? I mean, obviously that's the time when the body recovers, and so if it's got the energy to do that recovery while you're sleeping, that's going to, you know, obviously have an effect on how you feel when you wake up.

I forgot about the, the appetite suppressant part of it, because as I said, I don't have a lot of appetite. I chew COA leaf all day long, which is terrible. I mean, it's great for mental focus, but it's terrible for appetite. So taking your ketones might be part of the puzzle as to why my wife's like, dude, you need to eat.

You never eat. She's constantly, it's a small effect and we don't, and we don't usually eat because we're hungry, we eat because it's. One o'clock in the afternoon or seven o'clock at night. And most people, when they take ketones to what you described is they
[00:47:00] talk about being very mentally acutely aware and just feeling refreshed, having more energy without the jitteriness.

I love to because I, if I'm tired, I'm been jet lagged. I can take it to go out to do whatever I need to do. Have dinner, see friends, and I can fall asleep 10 minutes later. 'cause it's not like caffeine where I would never be able to immediately fall asleep afterwards, or Red Bull or any of the other stimulants.

So that's what's really intriguing. And we designed it specifically so you could put it into a coffee, you could put it into water. Um, we're talking to a group about doing a a, uh, replacing alcohol in some alcoholic drinks with the ketones. So you get a bit of a buzz without the alcohol. And, and we designed it that way.

So anybody who wants to build a brand, uh, please reach out to us. We'd love to work with you. That's funny. I've heard, uh, over the years, people talking about certain doses or certain types of ketones, uh, giving them that sort of gaba heavy, um,
[00:48:00] social lubricant feeling of a drink or two. You, you're saying that that's a reality or that's possible?

Um, I would say 66% of people talk about the mental accu mental acuity and the refresh of energy. But generally it's just. You know, it's, it's a pleasurable feeling to feel something like that. I don't think it's gonna, you know, replace the social lubricant, uh, of alcohol. Um, but it, it does play a bit of a role in making a slightly more enjoyable evening and you can fall asleep.

Got it. Um, so the thing I didn't realize until now I'm starting to put the pieces together, is taking this ketone product actually puts you in ketosis? Yeah. Oh, that's, see, I didn't realize that. I just thought, oh, I'm, I'm just giving my body ketones to use as fuel, but I didn't, I, I guess I didn't realize that this is very important part of that equation.

One of the things along with rectifying, the, the taste
[00:49:00] is, and the reason we can't sell it in a capsule, it has to be a powder, is I can give you, uh, 12 and a half milligrams. I can give you 25 milligrams to drive you not only into moderate ketosis or ute to full ketosis. And that's, that's unique. A, because it tastes okay, and B, because we designed it.

So you could take a large dose safely to moderate your ketosis, and you can, there's devices, you can prick your fingers so you know exactly how much you're doing. When I, when I take 25, um, milligrams, I, I literally go to do like 2.0, 2.1, and 0.5 to 1.5 is the usual range of ketosis. Wow. Would that also be true if one were, um.

Mixing it with carbohydrates. Like let's say I make a blueberry smoothie that's got some sugar and carbs in it and so on. And I'm adding the ketones to that. Does that negate the impact of ketosis? No, on the contrary, um, third party research,
[00:50:00] not us, and it has been repeated on my criteria, have to repeat it.

Um, basically if you take ketones, it actually lowers the sugar in your blood. It has, there's a bit of an offset. I don't know if you, uh, I'll throw this one out because it's just, it was just such a fun study. This is two years ago almost. Um, if you have bananas in your berries, the bananas will destroy 80% of the active ingredients in phenols in the berries.

Same thing that turns a banana. Brown is a phenol oxidase, which destroys the nutrients and the berries. No way. Oh man. I've gotten hate mail on this one, Luke, from people you've destroyed my breakfast. How dare you don't tell Jamba Juice. Those, you know, those like the, the old, the mainstream smoothie joints are gonna go outta business.

Well, thankfully I don't put bananas in my smoothie, but I I love some berries. You know, that's like the one, yeah, it's the one fruit. The one
[00:51:00] fruit I like. There's a company called, um, Northwest Wild Foods, uh, no affiliation, but they, they sell incredible wild berries, like all different varieties of wild berries, you know, from the northwest and some, and great wild fish too, by the way.

So shout out to that company. But yeah, they, they have these incredible, um. You know, blueberries obviously, but a number of other berries, and they're just outta wild. Berries are different. There's just, there's more, uh, pigment in them. They, they're more tart. They're less sweet. They, they really like. They hit like medicine, you know, obviously they're tasty, but you're going like, huh, my body really goes more of this, you know, this is, this is real food and the chances of me going out and gathering enough berries to sustain myself, uh, and Texas is, is very unlikely.

So, yeah, I, I like that. But I, you know, I'm always kind of monitoring my sugar intake, so it's good to know that there's, you know, there's a bit of a hack there with the ketones where
[00:52:00] maybe I won't get so much of a glucose spike if I choose to indulge in some, you know, carbs and sugar. No, you can, you can have french toast with, with ke with the ketone ester.

Your sugar will go high, but so will your ketones. Steven Haggerty at, um, Harvard did a study showing the blueberry skins in particular seem to be neuroprotective, so they're probably one of the better, uh, fruits and I, I take them every day 'cause of that as well. There's a lot of things I take every day because of the, the nutrient value of them.

But, uh, you know, very excited. I'm glad you had the positive experience with the ketones and glad that we're in a position to, to put it into a variety of products. And, and you can, as I said, put a very large dose on, which is important. Amazing. Uh, I'm gonna let people know too. I highly recommend, uh, I wouldn't shout out your website if, if it wasn't something I was really into, by the way, uh, if you go to luke story.com/get ketone,
[00:53:00] that's G-E-T-Q-I-T-O-N-E.

And I'll also put that link in the show description and there's a discount code of Luke 10 there. Um, 'cause I'm just, you know, yeah, I'm, I'm well, I did too until yesterday.

But yeah, I just, I think it's like such a great, um, I don't know, it's just, it's a great tool and it also just. It seems more natural than a lot of the synthetic supplements and things like that. And I take tons of that stuff too. I have no problem with something that's synthesized. But as you referred to it earlier, this is a food which is, it's just, it's in a different category, right?

It's just, it's like a food supplement versus just a supplement. Supplement. And so, um, food, you know, they've nicknamed this area or nutraceuticals. I like that. Um, what about, uh, the. Value of ketones for young
[00:54:00] kids and for elderly, you know, I mean, we're two people talking that are in pretty good health and thriving as far as I can tell.

But you know, what about, uh, during the period of growth, you know, for young kids or babies or, you know, the elderly people that are starting to have cognitive decline and so on. What about the two ends of the spectrum in terms of, uh, age range with young children? I have not because there's the body and the way this we are structured is so optimized for growth and in every form I haven't seen anywhere it materially changes other than the fact that it, it mitigates some of the effect of sugar which kids eat too much of, and it may decrease their appetite a little bit, which again, in our culture is probably not a bad thing.

Um, we do have a product, which is our next product that we're bringing out. I don't know if you've followed the sperm story. Um, and autophagy. So we, with Jens Nielsen, out of the University of Copen negative, made a 98% pure
[00:55:00] sperming, uh, which interestingly, third party research, again, not ours given to children, accelerates their neuronal given to neonates.

It accelerates their, their neuronal development to the point where we're literally talking to people about putting it in infant formula. So on that end, that's compelling regarding the ketones in the elderly. Um, my team will tell you that we probably get an email a week, uh, from a caregiver who says, Mr.

Mrs. Johnson has Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, some neurological condition. And literally it just changes the how, how they react. I mean, it's just profound, um, which is intriguing and we definitely wanna do a deep dive as drug developers and scientists, physician scientists, into this effect. But it, it does seem to have a profound effect, hyperactive children.

We've noticed a huge impact of the ketones in there. Um, so your, your brain's, 2% of
[00:56:00] your body mass, it consumes 20% of your energy. This is a fantastic energy source, an optimized energy source. So it makes sense in somebody who's got Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, any form of dementia, or somebody who's got a hyperactive brain that this may play profound role.

So I'm excited to see the next set of studies that are coming out on this. Um, and particularly the elderly. And I think we're gonna probably make a, a formula for the EL elderly, which will not only have the ketone, but some other things that will optimize their path. Awesome. Yes, sperm aine is one. You know, there's so many different, uh, kind of molecules that hit the scene and there's a lot of hype about them.

Um, that's one I've had a lot of personal success with. Um, in particular, there was a one point at which we were trying to conceive a couple years ago and um, and I have my sperm tested just 'cause my wife was like,
[00:57:00] Hey, you should get checked. And I thought, I don't need to do that. I'm super healthy. Yeah.

And then I realized that I'd, you know, been taking saunas forever and, uh, you know, saunas aren't great. So anyway, I got it tested and I was like, oh my God. It was just in the, in the toilet and, uh, um, figuratively speaking and, uh, yeah. Uh, so I just thought, well, sperm, aine, sperm. And I just started megadosing sperm aine and within two months it was back to, you know, you're 18 again.

It, I mean, it was incredible. Again, that's just a, it's role in autophagy the junk that is created by ourselves that we clean up when we're young and we can't clean up. It also affects your skin, the aging of your skin and your hair, as well as your organs. So it's one of the few that you'll see a, an aesthetic effect with, unfortunately, is the sperming on the market's about 5% pure.

It decays very quickly, which is. One of the things, again, much like getting rid of the nasty taste for the ketones,
[00:58:00] we've optimized that in our products, that it's so pure 'cause it's being manufactured from yeast as opposed to being extracted from shrimp and natural products. Oh, cool. Yeah. The other, uh, the other way to, we, we can get you some to try it out.

Let's, let's roll, man. Um, the other way to get sperm aine is the Japanese fermented soybeans. Nato. I, I like NATO myself, I'm a weirdo, but I, I, if I've, no matter who I've lived with or been around, the minute you crack open a jar in nato, in the kitchen, like the whole house smells like rotten feet and everyone's like, what is that?

And I'm like, I'm eating that thing. You smell. So it's, it's not accessible to me. I'm probably not coming to your house for dinner. Notice for respect, Luke A, you don't sound like you have dinner. And B, true. True. And B and b, we have that lovely, no, it's on the contrary. Ho. Hopefully we get to break bread. I agree.

Uh, what about lyth and a, that, that one to me seems to hold a lot of
[00:59:00] promise in terms of autophagy, uh, in, in a, in a, you know, the other side of the equation of what we're getting from senescence. Yeah. Do you, do you think you're, you Litan a, have you seen research or, you know, observational, um, you know, opinion on, uh, on, that's the efficacy of that.

I, I've, I've literally started taking it. Um, there's one on Amazon. I dunno whether I'm allowed to mention the name or not. I Oh, it's fine. Just fine. Yeah. I, I take one from a company called Timeline. Same. I, I met with the founder scientists in the, in the last few months. And I, and I did like you did, like Zach, what you said.

Well, went in, I, I asked for the clinical papers. I had them send me the research. I went through the research and at the end of, I thought this actually, I think it's a weak positive, but I think it's a positive. It's not robust and we need to optimize for it as well. But I do think it does some, a positive for us in the autophagy area.
[01:00:00]

Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, it seems a lot easier than trying to eat 47 pomegranates a day. You know, that's the thing. I mean, I think we hear about, you know, we're talking about blueberries and different foods that have these great, you know, polyphenols and cofactor nutrients and so on. It's like, well, yeah, but who, who has the ability to eat the bulk that you would need to get a clinical dose?

And so something like u liase, sperm aine, I'm excited about, you know, innovation with compounds like that, that, that work. And they're validated. We just need more of it in the body to really move the needle a hundred percent. Totally agree. And then that's, you know, key what, what we try to do, you know? And we're, we're working on products.

Cool. Cool. Um, so I feel like there was something with the ketones Oh yeah. With the ketogenic diet. Um, you know, as I said, I've tried and failed 'cause it's just so freaking hard. A lot of people seem to get results with it, and they're able to do it for,
[01:01:00] for uh, you know, whatever their constitution allows them to.

But then you get, you know, sort of side effects, like ketone, flu, sleep issues, issues with cortisol, hormonal balance, and things like that. I mean, despite knowing that ketosis. Overall good for us. What are some of the downsides if people aren't, you know, aren't doing it right or just kind of haphazardly taking it on as a lifestyle choice?

So, uh, there's a good gentleman, Erford and John Newman are the ones who created our ketone at the Buck Institute that I, that I mentioned. Um, amazing facility, $38 million, $38 million philanthropic budget. Just trying to find great things for us. To your point about scientists and 200 scientists from all over the world work on it.

And I, when I saw the ketone research and he told me I had the ketone Ester product, which we in licensed from them in 2018, I said, I should start on a ketone diet. And, and Eric goes, as long as you can live on
[01:02:00] avocados and, and macadamia nuts, have at it Greg, but you know, one apple, one, you know, blueberry and your, your pooch for the next 36 hours.

So I, and. Scott Simpson, uh, who's at the Perkins Institute, which is a multidisciplinary institute in in Australia, working to look at aging as well, says that the optimum diet for hu for all mammals, um, which he believes will also be the optimum diet for rattles for humans, is 70% healthy carbs, um, 15 to 20% healthy, uh, protein and 10% healthy fats.

And he said, and the worst diet is 70% bad carbs, you know, and bad protein and bad, um, fats. So I think that the ketone diets intriguing, but there's so many nutrients you'll miss unless you're really savvy. Same
[01:03:00] with, you know, being a vegetarian. You really have to know what you're doing to make sure you get the essential amino acids at the same meal, you know, and everything else that goes with it.

Although it's a fantastic diet, I'm not knocking. You better know what you're doing though. Yeah, I agree. Uh, when I was a vegetarian, I did not know what I was doing and I, I did myself a, a great disservice trying to, you know, really embrace my humanity and compassion, uh, at, at my own, uh, apparel, unfortunately.

Um, what about, you were talking about some of the, you know, the aging pathways before. Do you know anything about the, the clotho protein or the cloth? Try tryin license one. Has anyone made any progress with that? Uh, because I remember years ago, this is probably going back 10 years ago, uh, I was getting this.

Probiotic strain and making, um, key fear from it and yogurt from it. Right. And it was, it was, it
[01:04:00] touted at least that it was enabling your body to produce the clotho. It wasn't the clotho itself, but kind of a signaling molecule sort of thing. And the company, I think, just evaporated, uh, at some point. But I, I, I liked eating the yogurt and making the yogurt, and I hoped that it was working, but then I, I haven't really heard anything about the, the clotho space, if you will.

Since then, I tried to in-license a clotho product out of Yale University. Uh, but the scientist decided he wanted to bring it forward himself. That was probably four years ago, maybe five. There's a number of other people, and for the audience, clotho plays a very dramatic role in, um, how we use energy preservation of, of cells.

So I think. We will see things in the next three to four years. And I, I don't think they're necessarily, they pro, they're probably gonna be pharmaceuticals, so I'm not sure they're gonna, you know,
[01:05:00] be available to, to us in three to four years, but at least they'll be on the road to making products. Cool.

Going back to ketosis, um, and, and the benefits of that. I've interviewed a number of people around the topic of deuterium, this heavy hydrogen right, that builds up in the body over time. And a couple of the foremost experts on deuterium that I've interviewed seem to hold the perspective that. Um, one of the, if not the main benefits of ketosis is that it encourages your body to start depleting deuterium and, and the cancer research around, uh, the, one of the doctors, Dr.

Q Collins, uh, who's an immunologist out of UCLA, this is a number of years ago, he did a study with, uh, dogs in Cancer. And basically by introducing a ketogenic diet to these dogs, cured, you know, an insane number of them of cancer. And
[01:06:00] his study, uh, around that led him to believe that the, the reason that the ketogenic diet worked for those dogs with cancer had a lot to do with the depletion of deuterium.

Have you looked at that relationship at all? I, I haven't, um, as you were saying it, I was trying to think of a mechanism or a pathway that would do it, certainly if, if he was keeping them not only on a ketogenic diet, but he was also, uh, diminishing the amount of food they have. So they were breaking down their fat.

I'm not sure if deuterium is stored in the fat and then gradually released into the body as a toxin, in which case it may have more to do with, uh, fasting than it had to do with the diet. But that's just be totally off the cuff here. So feel free to edit this part out. No, no, I don't, I don't know the, I don't know the answer either.

I'd have to go back and listen to the interview. But it did have something to do with, um, I remember one of them telling me a story about camels and how the fat in the camel's
[01:07:00] hump all fat, you know, saturated fat is depleted in deuterium. It's very low deuterium. And so. The fat in a camel's hump actually produces metabolic water, and that's how they're able to go such long expanses of time without, you know, using exogenous water, without drinking water.

It was really interesting. So there, there definitely was a relationship there that I can't really articulate, but it just, it stuck in my mind. And that was so many years ago, I thought, oh, that's really interesting. You know, the relationship between having good, good, saturated fat and a keto diet depleting your deuterium.

Um, 'cause the only other way to really get your deuterium levels down if you're not full keto, is drinking depleted water. Uh, which I do when I can afford it, but it's exceedingly expensive. Um, yeah. And so, uh, I, I'm, I'm, I'm wondering if, and you know, obviously you wouldn't know the answer to this or make the claim,
[01:08:00] but I'm wondering if.

There's a relationship between exogenous ketones and that same mechanism of action where it's giving your body what it needs in order to, um, better, um, deplete its own deuterium levels. Interesting. Yeah, definitely. Um, fascinating to explore. It'd be a cool experiment to, to go on the hardcore deterrent, depleted water.

Take an adequate, if not excessive amount of your ketone product every day, and then retest your deuterium levels, which you can do, uh, down the road and like see what happens. I'm gonna do the experiment for you. I will report back. I would do three arms. One, one, I would do it just on the water. See what that does.

Two, I would do it just on the ketone, and three, I would do it on the combination. And then you may have hit the magic bullet. Uh, I'm in, I'm in. All right, man. Well, uh, I want to thank you so much for joining me today. This has been super fun. It's been a while since I've done an episode where I
[01:09:00] get to really geek out on, on the health stuff.

Uh, you know, I talked to all kinds of people about different things these days as my interest kind of change. And I wonder, oh, am I still into the health stuff? And I talked to someone like you, I'm like, yeah, I still got it. It's, I'm still, I'm still passionate about this, uh, particular topic. Um, so in closing, I'm gonna ask you my classic final question, and that is, uh, who are three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life, your work, who you are and what you do?

Uh, far and away. Number one was my mother. I'm the only child of a single mother. And, uh, her I as well into emergency medicine. I did three years where I was a forensic psychotherapist, and. And as I was talking to the patients and, and trying to, you know, uh, guide them, I realized how many times I was quoting my mother, uh, you know, how she thought about life, how she and, and still to this day would, would quote her.
[01:10:00] Um, and then it, it's been a smattering of people as opposed to one Luke. Um, I, you know, try to grab something from, from, you know, everybody interact with, you know, um, if this was reversed and I was interviewing you, I'd be asking you what's the biggest epiphany you've had in your life? You know, what are you gonna do to change the world?

Um, and try to, you know, and learn from that. And I collect quotes needed, which also seem to guide me. Awesome. I appreciate that. I have one for you. Yeah. What's the biggest epiphany you've had in the last few years? Um, I would say. That it is safe to be vulnerable. Enough to love deeply. Interesting. Good for you.

Transformational. And also I think most recently,
[01:11:00] how critical self-love is in, in one's quality of life and how I have a lot of work to do in that area still after all the work I've been doing on myself for years, you know? So, yeah. I think my, my epiphanies tend to be more in the kind of metaphysical realm, and they usually lead back to the same principle of love in one way or another.

Just that. You know, that's, that's all there really is. That's all that really matters ultimately. You know what I mean? It's like even the way I look at longevity. It's like, why do, why would I wanna stay here? Because I wanna learn how to further explore this field, this energy, this aspect of the creator that we call love.

You know, it's like, how much more of that can I have and give and experience here? Because it seems like as the older I get, um, that's kind of what this game is about, is can you exist?
[01:12:00] You know, it's like, can you exist in a world with so much evil and still embody love? That's a pretty, that's a pretty good challenge.

You know what I mean? It's like, take you these days. Yeah. I'm like, okay. That, that's worthy, that's worthy of effort, you know. Well, thank you for your answer and I hope we can able to do this podcast in another in 50 years. Yeah, me too, Greg, because we, we, we won the game. Me too, brother. I appreciate you.

Cheers, Luke, and thank you.

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