273. Solving The Wuhan-5G COVID-19 Mystery W/ Dr. Thomas Cowan

Dr. Thomas Cowan

May 9, 2024

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Dr. Thomas Cowan shares his hypothesis about what’s happening right now and we consider why anyone asking questions about this is being censored.

Dr. Cowan is a longtime holistic physician living and practicing in San Francisco who specializes in helping people heal through diet and natural medicines. His book How (and Why) to Eat More Vegetables describes why eating small amounts of a wide variety of vegetables is key to optimal health. He is the author of Human Heart, Cosmic Heart, published by Chelsea Green in 2016, is the primary author of The Fourfold Path to Healing, and co-author, with Sally Fallon, of The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care. He is one of the founding board members of the Weston A. Price Foundation, and he is trained and experienced in Anthroposophic medicine as well. He is also a passionate and knowledgeable grower of vegetables. He did, indeed, plant and tend many of the vegetables that were turned into these powders.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

You are about to swallow a giant red pill, my friend — but, first, I want to express my sincere condolences to anyone who has been negatively affected by the situation, whether through illness, financial hardships, loss of life, or loss of your former lifestyle. I also released a full episode all about my thoughts and a spiritual perspective on this hardship last week, so go back and check out episode 270. (It ends on a positive note, I promise!).

This week, however, we’re digging into the possible connection between the coronavirus and 5G. This is a question that was first brought to my attention by Dr. Thomas Cowan in a couple of YouTube videos, which may or may not still be viewable thanks to the rampant big tech censorship going on right now. Then, if you try using that ubiquitous search engine to learn more, you’ll see results from the MSM going out of their way to discredit Dr. Cowan and mischaracterizing what he said.

But why are they working so hard to silence this point of view? Who gains from trying to squash anyone who’s just asking questions, and what’s wrong with asking these questions in the first place? If this hypothesis is just flat out wrong and doesn’t include any medical advice at all, why does it need to be removed from every corner of YouTube and censored?

So, as these questions were swirling around my head, I just had to go straight to the source and Dr. Cowan on a call.

I’ve actually been a fan of Dr. Cowan and the powders he makes at Dr. Cowan’s Garden for a long time now, and I’ve been looking for a good reason to bring him onto the show — and I don’t think we’re going to get a better reason than this any time soon.

07:00 — The videos that made me start doing research

18:53 — Dr. Cowan is no stranger to controversy

  • Human Heart, Cosmic Heart - the book where Dr. Cowan questions the assumption that the heart pumps blood through the body
  • How do we know a new disease is actually caused by a virus?

28:30 — Our current situation: what happened in Wuhan?

53:37 — The propaganda of a pandemic

01:07:00 — Dr. Cowan’s hypothesis

01:30:03 — Why and Who?

01:38:05 — A way out

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

[00:00:10]Luke Storey:  All right. Welcome to The Life Stylist Podcast, Tom.

[00:00:10]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Thank you, Luke. Thanks for having me on your show. I guess it's an old-fashioned word.

[00:00:15]Luke Storey:  Well, it is—I think of it as a show. It is.

[00:00:17]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah.

[00:00:18]Luke Storey:  It's sometimes more like a variety show, which might be appropriate today because we're going to be covering some pretty serious ground. And I want to thank you for making the time on such short notice to come on. And, you know, I know you got a lot going on right now. And based on the viral nature of the recent video that was posted of you, I'm sure you're getting a lot of requests. So, I feel honored to have your time. And it's really two birds with one stone for me, because I've been wanting to interview you for a long time about a bunch of other stuff.

[00:00:50]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah.

[00:00:50]Luke Storey:  So, it was timely. And I'm glad that these unfortunate circumstances brought us together today.

[00:00:56]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Well, it's good to meet you, Luke.

[00:00:58]Luke Storey:  Likewise, man. So, before we get into the nitty gritty here, just give the audience a little bit of background on who you are, your practice, what you do in the world, and then we'll go ahead and jump right into it.

[00:01:12]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, I grew up in suburban Detroit, went to Oak Park High School in suburban Detroit. I was one of the better athletes in the school, I must say. I was on the golf team and basketball, et cetera. And then, I went to Duke for three years. I didn't like it. And just even though I sort of knew a coach should be a doctor, I really didn't like it. So, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. So, I decided to do anything but be a doctor. And I joined the Peace Corps to teach gardening in southern Africa. And amazingly, and I think I maybe the only person who can say this, while I was living in a mud hut in a village in Africa, I met the work of Rudolf Steiner and Weston Price.

[00:02:05]Luke Storey:  Oh, wow. That is a very fortuitous meeting there. Oh, wow.

[00:02:12]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah. So, I learned about biodynamics. And then, I realized that the type of doctor I didn't want to be was not the only type of doctor there was. And that allowed me to then go to medical school and been basically searching for how to do medicine and have had a, you know, medical practice basically ever since.

[00:02:35]Luke Storey:  And your practice is in San Francisco, is that right?

[00:02:38]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  San Francisco, yeah.

[00:02:38]Luke Storey:  Got it. And then, before I forget, because I have a feeling once we go down the various rabbit holes that I want to go down, this could get skipped, tell us about Dr. Cowan's powders because I'm sure your early introduction of Rudolf Steiner and the biodynamic farming somehow had something to do with that. And I think a lot of people that are familiar with your work might not even be aware of the connection between those really great products. And I think they're awesome and I'd like to give you a chance to talk about them, actually, before I forget.

[00:03:08]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It really came out of the idea that, you know, I've been involved with the Weston Price Foundation since its inception. And it's basically a foundation to resurrect traditional foods, you know, in the world, in the United States and traditional farming methods and including sort of modern takes on those like biodynamics. And what I realized is that a traditional diet has essentially three parts. One is the animal part. One is the seed part, which is either grains or seeds. And the third is the vegetable part.

[00:03:50] And when you look at those three, and then I ended up thinking, so we have good ways of producing animal products these days, you know, grass-fed meat and wild fish. It's not like it used to be, but it's close. And good seeds and we can soak them, et cetera. But traditional people used to eat about 120 different vegetables or plants per year, at least most of them. And a lot of them were perennials and wild ones and things that basically nobody eats. So, even the people who are dedicating themselves to eating a traditional diet, they don't do it with regard to vegetables.

[00:04:29] And so, once I realized that you had to eat, you know, 110 different vegetables a year and 10 to 15 a day, and half of them had to be wild or perennial, I decided that I had to grow them because there was no way to get them otherwise. And then, I realized that—I used to joke that if I told all my patients, they had to eat 110 different vegetables, and not a lot, just a little bit, that's the traditional way, and 15 a day, and they had to be wild and perennial that I would be down to about two patients after a while.

[00:05:05]Luke Storey:  Right. Exactly.

[00:05:06]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, I decided that we could actually grow them, and then put them into powders, and essentially provide the diversity of vegetables and vegetables that people can't get otherwise. This is like the little medicinal part of the diet. It's not for building bodies or, you know, growing strong bones. It's basically the medicinal part of that.

[00:05:31]Luke Storey:  Well, I'm very grateful that you've elected to do that because I'm someone that doesn't like to chew my way through a lot of roughage. And I understand the polyphenols and antioxidants and different minerals and the nutritional profile of some vegetables, of course, are better than others, but, you know, to get them in is really tough.

[00:05:52]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right.

[00:05:52]Luke Storey:  And that's like always been kind of a missing link. And I would say I follow loosely in ancestral diet, but it's always been a little difficult for me to get that in and get in to see vegetables and things like that. And I'm not particularly fond of or skilled at cooking, and that makes it all the more difficult.

[00:06:08]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah.

[00:06:08]Luke Storey:  So, I love the fact that you created those things, so I just want to give you kudos for that and make sure I mentioned it before we get into the deep water here.

[00:06:16]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Let me just start here because I was thinking about, you know, how we're going to do this. And let's just say, first of all, that I'm no stranger to controversy, right? I mean, you know, I wrote a number of different books so far. There's been five total. And the first of this last series, which was called Human Heart, Cosmic Heart, was the basic point of the book, the first points anyways, was I questioned the idea that the heart pumps the blood. Now, of course, everybody knows the heart pumps the blood around the body. That's like something we learn in third grade. And frankly, I attempted to demonstrate in that book that that's frankly nonsense, and that there's a whole different way the blood moves, and that changes everything. And I want to read to something I wrote from a quote from one of my heroes to get us started here.

[00:07:12]Luke Storey:  Cool.

[00:07:13]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  If I could.

[00:07:14]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:07:14]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  His name is Viktor Schauberger and-

[00:07:16]Luke Storey:  Nice, dude, you know all the good ones.

[00:07:18]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  I know all the good ones.

[00:07:19]Luke Storey:  Great.

[00:07:19]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  He's one of my heroes. And I would say he's somebody who knows more about water than probably anybody else who ever lived. So, here's what Schauberger said, which I put in the front of this book about the heart is not a pump. So, he said, and I quote, "People may say I am crazy. Perhaps they are right. In this case, it's not so much important if there is one fool more or less in the world. But in case that I am right and science is wrong, Lord have mercy on mankind." And so, what I'm about to say, I don't know if I would use the word science like he does, but a lot of people will think possibly that I'm crazy or that I'm wrong, in which case, so be it, but I would try to make the case that I'm not wrong, and we'll see where that goes, if that's okay with you.

[00:08:16]Luke Storey:  That sounds great. Any show that starts with Rudolf Steiner and Schauberger, I'm already on board.

[00:08:23]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Got it.

[00:08:23]Luke Storey:  And I'm also an absolute—we could have a whole other show about this, and hopefully we will, but I'm an absolute water fanatic. I'm obsessed with spring water and structured water and-

[00:08:35]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, this story has a lot to do with structured water.

[00:08:39]Luke Storey:  All right. Cool. Let's do this.

[00:08:40]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  But that comes at the end.

[00:08:42]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:08:42]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And the first thing I would say is because I made this very controversial comment that viruses don't cause disease. And unfortunately, at the time, I didn't have time to flesh that out. But I think it would be good if I did. And to actually start with this very simple question of how do we know, given a new disease, if it's caused by a virus, right? I mean, that's the basic question. You could also expand the question and say, "How do we know if a certain set of symptoms is caused by a microbe, in other words, an infection?" 

[00:09:22] And there, we're talking not just about viruses, but bacteria and fungus and maybe amoebas and other things. So, it turns out, you know, like most things in life, there's rules to this game, right? We all—everything goes by rules. And there's rules that have been established for approximately 100 years on how you demonstrate with a new set of symptoms that it's caused by a microorganism.

[00:09:52] And they're basically called Koch's postulates. And I would say, there's no doctor, there's no microbiologist, there's no infectious disease person, at least that I know of, who disagrees with Koch's postulates, that there's some things to say to qualify that. But basically, that's, everybody agrees that that is the way scientists investigate a disease and find out if it's infectious in the out, right? You with me?

[00:10:22]Luke Storey:  Absolutely.

[00:10:23]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, let's take an example of a very simple one called meningococcal meningitis. Meningococcal meningitis is a bacterium. And basically, everybody who has meningococcal meningitis has the identical symptoms. They have a very high fever. They're really sick, like sick like you've never seen. They have a very characteristic fever, temperature. And generally speaking, they'll die in two to three days if nothing is done. And by nothing, I mean, intravenous antibiotics.

[00:10:56] So, that's the clinical scenario. So, that's Koch's postulate number one, is you have to have a defined clinical scenario. In other words, everybody has the same symptoms. Now, when you investigate people with meningococcal meningitis, 100% of them, if you take their blood and culture it, meaning you try to grow it, they will grow out millions of copies of meningococcal bacteria on the petri dish, 100%. There is nobody with that set of symptoms who has meningococcus, who doesn't grow out meningococcus in their blood.

[00:11:34] That's Koch's postulate number two, you have to find it with everybody, not 20%, not 80%, 100% of the people have it. The postulate number three is nobody walking around like you or me or your friends or anybody who doesn't feel—you know, it's not sick, none of those people have meningococcus growing in their blood. None of them. There's nobody walking around with millions of copies of meningococcus in their blood. So, that's number three. Number four-

[00:12:08]Luke Storey:  Because inherently, they would be showing symptoms.

[00:12:11]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  You can't—it's not compatible with being normal to have meningococcus in your blood.

[00:12:17]Luke Storey:  Got it.

[00:12:18]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right? It doesn't happen. Never. Now, the next thing is you can take the blood. You can purify the bacteria so that all you have left is the bacteria. And you could inject it into another person, which obviously you wouldn't want to do, but you could find an animal model. In other words, an animal that's susceptible and you introduce it into that animal either through injection or through their nose or something, and 100% of them will get sick. And then, those people will—you can culture out meningococcus from their blood and then you could keep the thing going, right? 

[00:12:58]Luke Storey:  Got it.

[00:12:59]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  You got it?

[00:12:59]Luke Storey:  Yeah, sounds-

[00:13:00]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  That's how-

[00:13:01]Luke Storey:  Sounds pretty foolproof so far.

[00:13:02]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It's very clear, foolproof. That's how we do it. Now, you can also apply that to viruses. So, let's take chicken pox as an example. More or less, everybody who has chicken pox, every child has a certain kind of fever, you know, it fluctuates a little bit, but they have a fever, they don't feel that good. They have this vesicular or bubbly rash. And then, if you examine their blood or the stuff that comes out of their vesicles, their blisters, they all have millions of copies of this chicken pox virus, 100%. There's nobody with chicken pox who doesn't have chicken pox in their blood and in their rash, you know, secretions and like number three in the meningococcus, nobody like you or I walking around without chicken pox has chicken pox viruses by the millions in their blood. It just doesn't happen. It's not compatible with having a virus, right? 

[00:14:07]Luke Storey:  Got it.

[00:14:07]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And then, if you take back millions of copies and expose another person to it, they who hasn't had chicken pox, they will get chicken pox. And they'll have a million copies, et cetera. Now, hopefully, more—I'll have more to say of why, even though that seems clear, that doesn't necessarily mean they have an infection, but that's advanced virology. And I just want to ignore that for a minute. But I do want to get back to that because for our purposes, for literally years, decades, that's how microbiologist virologists decided that an infection or a set of symptoms was caused by an infection, right? We got it? 

[00:14:57]Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

[00:14:58]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And maybe I should apologize for being sort of science wonky here, but I think this is crucial to people understanding even your question about 5G.

[00:15:09]Luke Storey:  I think you're laying a great foundation, and it's fundamental to the conversation that's about to ensue. And I'm learning right now because I know nothing about viruses. I know from my knowledge, viruses have to do with, yeah, I had chicken pox when I was a kid. I had it, then it went away, I never got it again. And having been a bit of a biohacker over the years, I've done a lot of blood work and have done viral specific blood work and have found remnants or indications that I've had various viruses, strains of Epstein-Barr, whatever it might have been, I don't remember, and panicked, and then talked to my functional medicine doctor. They go, Oh, that doesn't mean that you have it. That just means that it's been there at some point or something like that.

[00:15:48]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah.

[00:15:49]Luke Storey:  So, my knowledge base of viruses ends there, which is, you know, obviously leaving a lot on the table.

[00:15:57]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Okay. So, with that background, now, we come to our current situation. So, here's what happens then. There are people who are identified who are sick in this city in China, called Wuhan. So, they say they're sick. Now, what are the symptoms that they have? Basically, they have a fever and a low-grade fever and a dry cough. Now, unlike meningococcus, unlike chicken pox, those two symptoms, which are the defining symptoms of this coronavirus disease, are not specific to anything, right? 

[00:16:36] You could have the flu. You could have coronavirus. You could have asthma and air pollution. Apparently, Wuhan is the most polluted air pollution place, frankly, in the world, I hear. There's a lot of things that caused people, you've probably had fever and a dry cough at some point in your life. We all have. So, my first point is that doesn't really help us, right? That doesn't fulfill Koch's postulates that there is a specific set of symptoms.

[00:17:07] But let's say, okay, they have a fever and dry cough, and we want to know if there's a new virus causing it. So, if we were honest about this, in other words, if the Chinese people, government or whatever, whoever is in charge there says, "We think we've identified a new disease", what you would do is you take 500 people with that set of symptoms, right? Just like five hundred people with meningococcus. You examine their blood for under electron microscopy or their secretions, it could be their respiratory sputum.

[00:17:45] And in every case, you would find these hundreds of thousands, millions of copies of the virus. That's how we do it. And then, you would examine 500 people who are normal, but living in Wuhan, and they don't have a cough and they don't have a fever, you examine their blood and their respiratory secretions, and not one of them would have this virus in. So, that's exactly the same way. And then, you would take the virus from the people who are sick and you would purify it, so there's nothing else in there. There's not, you know, snot and there's not whatever else might be in there. And you would give that to an animal, and they would get characteristic symptoms. That's how it's done.

[00:18:35] Now, the question is, is that how it was done this time? And it's not shocking to me because I've been part—I've been down this rodeo probably 10 times, but as far as I know, and I could be wrong, I'm not a virologist, I'm not an immunologist, I look on—I have sources who give me information, I research this myself, as far as I can tell, there is not one person who has had this electron microscope study done to demonstrate millions of viruses, no other virus or bacteria or any toxin at all.

[00:19:16] There's never been 500 people or even one person who is examined under electron microscope with the same set of symptoms who doesn't have the virus. And then, they never purified it. And then, they couldn't demonstrate that they could make an animal sick. Now, let's think about that for a minute because again, I could be wrong. There could be a study. I looked on PubMed just today. As far as I know, that never happened.

[00:19:49] Now, you could ask me, "So, Tom, why didn't that happen?" I mean, let's just say for now, I don't know why it didn't happen. I mean, if I was the CDC Wuhan officer, I would say, "Okay, you got a new set of symptoms, let's take 500 people, let's look for the virus. We find it in all these people. We purify it. We find out it's not in other people. And then, we give it to an animal and see what happens." They didn't do that. They didn't do that.

[00:20:20]Luke Storey:  Tom, has this process that you've been describing, which is sounding like the legitimate way to determine what's going on with potential pandemic, has this been done with other viruses of recent years about which there was, you know, to a lesser degree, but also some media hype and precautions taken, you know, around the world at the suggestion of the medical industrial complex. In other words, like is this the worst case of that apparently not being done or is this kind of common that sometimes, something will break out and protocols like you're describing are not followed, and therefore, it remains nebulous and obscure?

[00:21:01]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  They always do this.

[00:21:03]Luke Storey:  Oh, shoot. Okay. Okay.

[00:21:05]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And in fact, this isn't even new. So, I could go back and by the way, there's a couple of books that people need to read. And because I'm not somebody who is going to quote like references here, but I will give you the name of a book, it's called Virus Mania. I have it here. It's written by Torsten Engelbrecht and Claus Koehnlein, who I've met. And I think you can get it on Amazon. And all the references for what I'm saying are in that book.

[00:21:38] So, if you say—if somebody says there's no peer-reviewed studies on this, there are. I'm not going to give you the citations now because it's boring. They're all in that book. Now, this nonsense, I would say, started even with polio in 1900. So, here, we had a situation where there was apparently a new disease. It happened to coincide with the wide spreads spraying of the trees with something called lead arsenic. And the place in our body that there's pathology, in other words, the place that's sick, is called the anterior horn cells of the nervous system.

[00:22:20] These are the cells, the nerve cells that make motor function happen. So, that's why people with polio got paralyzed. It turns out that lead arsenic is a specific toxin for the anterior horn cells of the nervous system. But even then, people were determined to say this is a transmissible agent. They didn't really know about viruses then, but they couldn't find anything under the microscope, so they decided to take samples from people who were sick with polio. 

[00:22:55] So, they would, for instance, get a child and they would do a dissection and take the anterior horn cells of their nervous system, right? That's the part that's sick. And they would take a piece of that, mix it with some water and maybe some other things, and they would give it to animals, and they didn't get sick, then they would inject it into animals, and they didn't get sick. They did this hundreds and thousands of times, and they could not get the animals sick.

[00:23:23] And then, they decided to take this one child with paralysis, they took a piece of their nervous system, rounded up, put it in water, took two monkeys, drill a hole in their head, and they didn't purify it, they didn't take any virus or anything, they just took unpurified stuff from the sick nervous system, injected about half a cup into the monkey's brain, and one of the monkeys died and the other got paralyzed. And they showed the monkey and they said, "That's proof that it's a virus." Now, I don't know about you, but-

[00:24:01]Luke Storey:  What the hell?

[00:24:04]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  ... first of all—right. What the hell? Like are you serious that that's—I would say my interpretation of that is if I was a monkey, don't let somebody drill a hole in my head and don't put somebody's diseased spinal cord in my brain because God knows what's going to happen. And there was no evidence that that was a transmissible illness. How do you know it's not arsenic? How do you know it's not—there was something in the spine that was poisoned. How do you know monkeys don't like having a quarter cup of goop, you know, injected in their brain? Anyways, believe it or not, that's the definitive proof that polio was a transmissible disease. And as I like to say, we went downhill from there.

[00:24:57]Luke Storey:  Wow, that's unbelievable.

[00:25:01]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It's unbelievable.

[00:25:01]Luke Storey:  I mean, I've heard some crazy shit doing this show, trust me. I've interviewed some brilliant people that have a lot of alternative information that's not—I mean, it's available, but it's not widely discussed, let's just say that. And that has got to be one of the top bits of info I've ever heard. So, congratulations on freaking me out big time.

[00:25:23]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, let's get back to the current situation then.

[00:25:27]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[00:25:27]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, there's not a clear set of symptoms, right? There's a nonspecific fever and cough. There's no purification and identification of viremia, which means virus in the blood, millions of copies in anybody, at least that I know. There is no confirmation that no normal person has that. And they can't transmit it to another animal. So, you could say then, "So, what is this based on? And what is this test that's confirming that people have coronavirus?"

[00:26:07] Now, I talked to a lot of people now and they say, "Yeah, but, Tom, they did a test and they said it was coronavirus." And they are talking about the test and they did a test. And then, I ask them, "Do you know what they were testing?" And they say, "Well, their mucus." I mean, right, that's what they were testing, but what was the test? Now, I don't want to put you on the spot, but my guess is you don't know what kind of tests they did.

[00:26:33]Luke Storey:  Of course not.

[00:26:34]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. So-

[00:26:35]Luke Storey:  No clue.

[00:26:36]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. Most people don't. So, let me tell you about the test. It's called an RTPCR test, and I'll tell you what that means in a minute. But the most important thing to understand about that test is it's what's called a surrogate test. And a surrogate test means that if you find a gold standard, and the gold standard is what I just described, then you can take a piece of that genetic material of that specific microorganism, the bacteria or the virus that you found, and you can do some manipulations of it, which I'll describe in a minute. 

[00:27:19] And then, you can find out if that piece of unique genetic material is what's in that sample, and it's much quicker. Now, the way to understand this because I like to talk in analogies and to help people really see what I'm talking about because this is crucial. So, here's what a surrogate test is, let's say you want to find out how many feet there are in a small town in Texas. And I don't mean inches, feet. I mean feet you walk on, right? 

[00:27:52]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:27:52]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right? So, you go to Lubbock, Texas. How many feet are there in Lubbock, Texas? Anybody would say the way to find that out is to get all the people in Lubbock, Texas, and count their feet, right? So, then, you got 3,120 feet, and then you go to the next town, and that's—I don't know what it's called, in Amarillo or something like that, and there's 4,284 feet. And that's the gold standard. In other words, you're 100% sure as long as you've got all the people in that town and you counted their feet, that's the number of feet there are in that town. You with me? 

[00:28:32]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:28:33]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Now, you go to the next town and that took too long and you don't want to bother with that, so you say, I'm going to use a surrogate test. I don't want to count the feet. That takes too long. I'm going to say everybody with a foot has a shoe. And everybody who has a shoe has a shoelace. And every shoelace was bought at the one shoe store in this town. So, all I have to do to find out how many feet there are is go to the store and say, "How many shoelaces did you sell last year?"

[00:29:05] And they say, "2,000." So, you say that's the number of feet. The problem is—there's two problems. A, if you haven't correlated that that number of shoes equals—shoelaces equals the number of feet, you could be way off. So, for instance, there may be somebody who doesn't have any shoes or I've heard sometimes women have 10 pairs of shoes. And I've heard that there are shoes—I even have a pair that doesn't have shoelaces. So, it's very obvious that a surrogate test, if you haven't 100% correlated that with the gold standard, which is counting the feet, could be very misleading.

[00:29:57] So, in a situation where you have not identified the virus, purified the virus, transmitted the virus, and then all you do is take an example of the virus and you take some genetic material of that virus, and then you have to do something called, I'll put it through amplification cycles. And I know this gets technical. So, you have this piece of RNA from the coronavirus. It's a unique piece, they say, right? So, if it's in one copy in the blood, you can't find it. It's too small.

[00:30:36] So, you put it through a cycle and this amplification cycle or otherwise known as viral load or PCR test was invented by Kary Mullis, who was given the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for inventing this test. He said, "You cannot use this for diagnostic purposes. You can only use it to follow the course of somebody's treatment because if you don't have a gold standard, you don't know what you're comparing it to", right? 

[00:31:09]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:31:09]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, you take the RNA, the RT part means you convert it into DNA, and then you make it one copy become two copies. And you still can't see it. Two becomes four, four becomes eight. After 30, a million becomes two million, 10 million becomes 20 million. And after 36 cycles, you start to see it. In other words, you find something that binds with that. And then, it changes the color, right? Now, at that point, you see the color change. But at 36 cycles, you still don't catch it all because you haven't put it through enough cycles. So, you put it through 37 cycles. And then, you catch most of it. Got it? With me? 

[00:31:59]Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

[00:31:59]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And then, you put it through 40 cycles and you start catching all of it, except then, you start getting false positives. In other words, some people because turns out, there's always a little bit of that RNA in everybody's blood, apparently. And if you put it through 60 cycles, everybody is positive. Now, let me say that again, because 36 to 40 is the sweet spot. Thirty-six is too low. Forty, too many positives, there are false positives, even though you actually don't know which are false positives because you never counted their feet. 

[00:32:41] So, you don't really know how many shoe laces go with the feet. I know this gets complicated, but it means that everybody has that little piece of DNA if you accentuate it enough. Now, the problem with this is if you do, let's say, all biological tests have—I mean, it depends. It has at least a 1% false positive rate. In other words, it's said the test is positive, but you don't really have the virus or the bacteria. If you test 30 million people and it has a 1% false positive rate, you have 200,000 people who test positive, and you've got an epidemic. 

[00:33:26] And then, if you give them X drug, and then you want to demonstrate that X drug works, all you do is turn the cycles down to 37 and only a thousand people will test positive. So, you've cured the epidemic. That's weird because you didn't really do anything except change the number of amplification cycles. Now, it turns out, all of these diseases SARS, Ebola, Zika, you know, hep C, et cetera, have all been diagnosed with these PCR tests, where it says in the package insert, you cannot use these for diagnostic purposes, which is bizarre because one could ask the question, "What are you supposed to use it for?" 

[00:34:21] Anyways, Kary Mullis insisted that this test is an inappropriate use to diagnose somebody with that disease, particularly if you've never done those four steps. So. That is the test that they're using, sorry, to diagnose that this is a viral epidemic. And because they've never done the original Koch's postulates, there is no way to know how many are really positive, how many are negative. And the whole thing is frankly a bit nuts.

[00:35:00]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it sounds like that methodology that you just described is nuts for—and I'm just going to state what might be obvious here, it's nuts for everyone except someone who's coming up with the treatment or the vaccine, right?

[00:35:17]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. Or the test. 

[00:35:19]Luke Storey:  Or the test itself. Right. Okay.

[00:35:21]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah. And, you know, I always say, I hope nobody believes me about anything, but go and ask your doctor, ask the CDC, what are the tests you're using? What is the false positive rate? What is the false negative rate? What are you comparing this to? We understand that viral loads, it sounds like you're testing the number of viruses in the blood, but it's nowhere near that. You're testing a piece of DNA or RNA, sorry, you know, it could be either depending on what you're looking for, in the blood, that's not a virus. 

[00:35:59] Now, having said that, then the question—so, let me just stop there for a minute. So, that's the place to start on this, to say, "Actually, what is happening here?", right? Now, the next question is, but yes, they people say, "Tom, but there's a lot of people being sick and a lot of people have evidence on this PCR test that there's this new sequence. What do I make of that?", right? That's the next question. So, again, just because it's my habit, I'm going to speak in analogy here. 

[00:36:40] Because I would say that the first thing, and it's also, people tend to get angry at me or, you know, "Well, if it isn't the virus, then what is it?", they say, right? What is it? So, I would just—the first thing I would say is imagine, you know, Lubbock, Texas. I don't know why I'm picking on Lubbock, Texas. Every morning, you go running around the track because you like to run. In the middle of the track is grass like most football fields. Every day, you go running at 8:00 AM.

[00:37:13] One day, you go there at 8:00 AM. And there's this four-story boulder, half of the football field, lying on the grass. And the grass underneath is perfectly normal, right? And then, you hear on the news, a meteor fell from the sky and landed in the football field in Lubbock, Texas. And it's all over the news. Oh, my God, a meteor fell. And you were the only one who saw it. And if it was me, the thing that I would say to myself is, "Hey, wait a minute. If it fell from the sky, the grass wouldn't be normal", right? 

[00:37:51] There'll be a big hole there and the grass would be all messed up, and that just doesn't make any sense. So, that's what I meant, that story of this virus, it doesn't make any sense, at least it hasn't been proven. Now, somebody then could say to me, "Tom, well, if it didn't fall from the sky, how did it get there?" And my first response would be, "I don't know. I just showed up in the morning and there it was. I don't know. Maybe somebody put it there or I don't know why they would put it there, but somehow, it got there." 

[00:38:28] So, that's the problem. You can't prove that I'm wrong or even suggest just because I don't know what happened. Now, I am going to say what I think is happening here, but I just want to be clear that the first thing I know is that meteor didn't fall from the sky because that doesn't add up. This has not been proven that there is a viral causation in the generally accepted hundred years or so of how we prove a virus causes disease.

[00:39:04]Luke Storey:  Wow. And is there anyone other than you, to your awareness, that's bringing what, to me, are such obvious contradictions and gaps in the story to light? I mean, I'm not hearing any of this in the—obviously, like in the mainstream narrative because of the panic and the motivation.

[00:39:23]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yes, there are people. There are people, they've been doing this for decades, and nobody pays attention. That's why I read Schauberger's quote, they're considered crazy people. 

[00:39:36]Luke Storey:  Right. 

[00:39:37]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Now, if we may then, let's get into this—I mean, if you want to ask another question, I didn't mean to-

[00:39:44]Luke Storey:  Oh, no. Go ahead. This is all making sense. I mean, I might just add that just from the observational point of view, when this story first started breaking, you know, like anyone at first, you want to take media reports to be at least somewhat true, and the media reports we first got we're out of China. You know, I'm always giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it wasn't even our obviously corrupt and misguided mainstream media here, but the first reports are coming out of China and God bless the citizens of China. Obviously, I would never say anything disparaging against them, but based on the track record of Communist China over the past 80 to 100 years, they would not be the first place I'd go for accurate information, you know what I mean?

[00:40:32]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right.

[00:40:33]Luke Storey:  So, it's like just the very premise of, "Hey, China's saying this thing's happening and this is how it's happening", we already kind of have to go, "Well, hang on. Really?"

[00:40:43]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yes.

[00:40:43]Luke Storey:  This is a regime that's responsible for upwards of 80 million deaths in the last century through their ideology and much of that being supported by the propaganda machine that they've grown so expert in perpetrating. So, all of a sudden, we're going, "Hey, yeah, whatever China says, I mean, that, to me, at the outset was smelly." And add to that—kind of what you alluded to, that the symptoms seemed to be so random and you don't know how much of the footage of these symptoms is even real in terms of you have people just falling flat on their face and passing out or dying on the leaked news reports, whether they be staged or not. I mean, it just totally, from the very outset, has just been completely bizarre, leaving aside any of the science that you just described. I mean, just from a reporting standpoint, it's like, "Now, what the hell is happening here?"

[00:41:40]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right.

[00:41:41]Luke Storey:  So, it's terrifying and equally as intriguing to just proselytize as to what could possibly be going on before it even enters our news cycle here. And we have a reaction to it that we've had from not only our media, but obviously government agencies, et cetera.

[00:42:00]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. So, all that, yeah. And that's the sort of politics, which, you know, I'm, at this point, trying to stick to, you know—but my contribution is basically medicine and facts, I think.

[00:42:18]Luke Storey:  Sure.

[00:42:19]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Now, let me just point out another thing. People often say to me, "Yeah. But there's all these people sort of dying in one place. Therefore, it must be a virus", right? I hear that a lot. And all—I would just point out, you know, back in the mid-'40, '45, I think it was, they dropped a bomb on Hiroshima and a lot of people died in one place. And that wasn't a virus. And you say, "Well, yeah, but they saw that", right? Okay. But if you go 50 miles away from the town, they didn't see anything. And they were dying of this new disease of nuclear weapons. 

[00:42:58] And same with Chernobyl. You know, it started and they didn't necessarily see anything. I think they saw a bomb or a flash. But it isn't a proof of infectious etiology because a lot of people die, nor is it a proof of infectious etiology because they're all in the same family. You know, if I put cyanide in your water, a lot of people in your house will die. And that's not because they have a virus. So, that's not the proof. Now, we then get into, so what is a virus in the first place? And why are they fingering viruses for this?

[00:43:39] So, a virus is a piece of DNA or RNA, which is the genetic material. You know, DNA makes RNA makes proteins. I won't get into so much, but it's a piece of DNA or RNA with a few other proteins that then gets up. It has to live inside a cell. And so, it replicates so-called in a cell, and then bugs out through the cell membrane and gets spewed out into the world. That's what a virus is. Now, it used to be, we didn't think, you know, back when I was in medical school, so this isn't like—I'm not that old, I mean, I'm old, but not that old, we used to think there was no such thing as beneficial bacteria, which we call the microbiome.

[00:44:27] Everybody knows that we have more bacterial cells in our body than we do human cells. But back then, we used to treat people who are sick by trying to kill all the bacteria in their body because the bacteria were making them sick. So, we give them high dose of very toxic antibiotics trying to sterilize them just so that they wouldn't get sick. And that didn't work out very well. They die. It turns out, we have millions of different viruses, which are these little particles of genetic material inserted in our DNA, in our cells, and everywhere else, in your eyelids, in your nose, in your blood, everywhere.

[00:45:11] There's all these viruses. When something stimulates them to start—I wouldn't use the word growing because they're not alive, something stimulates your body to produce more of these genetic sequences, they then get packaged up into your cell membranes and excrete it. Now, the interesting thing about this is if you do something to degrade somebody's DNA, in other words, if you put an agent in there that's toxic to the DNA, you will produce these DNA pieces or RNA pieces, it depends how you do it. They will get packaged up. And those are called exosomes, which they look like viruses.

[00:46:00] And then, the question is, did this virus, these chicken pox, million viruses, did that come from the outside or was that produced by your own sequence in the inside because of some reason? Now, I would make the analogy that, what could be the reason? Well, it could be that it's getting rid of toxins. In other words, if you poison the cell, you degrade the DNA, it packages them up and sends them out. And that's what we call, "So, the person is sick", right? Because they've been poisoned. 

[00:46:36] And then, they package it up, and we think they have a viral infection when they're actually just getting rid of poisons. Now, for those of you saying, "Well, Tom, he just makes this stuff up." I mean, I do make stuff up, but not this kind of stuff. I would say, go to a lecture given by one of the top virologists in the world, whose name is Dr. Skip Virgin, that was given at the NIH June 4, 2005. The title is called The Mammalian Virome and Genetic Analysis of Health and Disease Pathogenesis. That's a mouthful.

[00:47:13] But if you do—if you go to YouTube, you can find it. And he says essentially something very similar, viruses are messengers. They're the rapid response team that says that the organism is saying "We've been poisoned. We're going to package up some genetic material and send it out to alert other cells, other tissues, other organisms, maybe even other species that there's a problem here. Something is degrading my DNA, my cells. Now, the analogy here is this is exactly what trees do.

[00:47:55] If you have beetles eating a tree, then the one tree who's the first one to be eaten by beetles will make chemicals, which they package up, send it out through the roots. Those go and tell the other trees to make an immunological reaction so that they can fend off the beetles. In other words, this whole idea that there is some survival of the fittest or a sort of wily virus theory, you know, the wily viruses escaping detection, and I always ask people then, "So, it's a capsule that comes from your cell. It's a piece of RNA or DNA and a few proteins, which is actually the wily part of that?", right?

[00:48:42] The part that's thinking I'm going to escape detection and survive on my own. That is an antiquated, ridiculous concept. These are messengers and toxins excreted from the cell. And then, here's where it gets interesting. They're then put out into the world as if there's a problem here, people, right? Now, that's why, you know, Rudolf Steiner described viruses as essentially mineralized excrement. Now, I would submit that it's not good to eat somebody's mineralized excrement, right? 

[00:49:28] So, if somebody has the signal that I'm being poisoned and they send out the message through this rapid response team, which is called viruses, and that goes to you, and then you make a reaction to defend yourself, you think you got sick from that person. And it's very—that's why it's complicated. It seems like you have an infection, but you don't—that's not really an infection. In other words, the cause of that was not an infection. It was actually a beneficial reminder that something is happening here, which we don't like. 

[00:50:13] Now, it's like I describe with people in thinking about medicine. So, here you are and you get a splinter in your finger and you don't take it up. And then, what happens is you make pus, right? Is the pus the disease or is the pus the therapy for the splinter? Everybody says the pus is the therapy for the splinter, the splinter is the disease. And you can say, "Well, yeah, but the pus could eat your finger, and then get into your blood and kill you, right?

[00:50:45] Sometimes, your therapy or your response to an insult can get you into trouble, I get it, but it still doesn't mean it's not the response. And everybody says, "Well, no, that's stupid, because everybody knows that." But how about this? People put debris in their lungs. It's called smoking. And then, twice a year, they get mucus and cough to get it out of their lungs. And then, they go to the doctor. The doctor says, "You have bronchitis." And he gives you medicine to stop you from coughing. And I would only ask, "What happens to the smoke?" It stays there. 

[00:51:22] And then, you do it for twice a year, for 20 years, and then you get lung cancer. Now, I know this is a little simplistic, but why do you get lung cancer? Because you put crap in your lungs and somebody stopped you from getting the crap out of your lungs, and then it builds up and you get lung cancer. So, it's true that, you know, being exposed to somebody's signal creates a reaction in you, "Oh, I have to defend myself." The part that we call being sick is the defending yourself. Sometimes, it gets too much, especially if there's multiple toxins that are causing this. Like it doesn't necessarily always have to be a splinter or smoking. 

[00:52:12] You could put arsenic in your lungs. You could breathe in pig poop or, you know, lots of things can make you have that immunological reaction. So, it gets complicated. So, once you go there, then you can say the question, which is what you started this whole conversation with, so what do I think about 5G? So, all I'm saying then is if this modern theory of virology is accurate, which is what the real top virologists in the world are saying, then we have to look for something that's poisoning these people.

[00:52:54] Now, let's just say—just to be clear, I don't necessarily know what's poisoning them, right? I just know that the boulder fell out from the sky. I don't believe that's true because the grass is fine. That's the main point. Now, if we want me to speculate on what may be getting people sick now, I would say, "Well, something is degrading their DNA." So, what could that be? Well, if you look at Wuhan and northern Italy, I think it's northern.

[00:53:29]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:30]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Where the people are getting sick. There are some interesting things that are happening. Now, let me just be clear about this. I'm getting these from eyewitness sources and from reading and from studies. And it could be that they're not accurate. You know, it's hard to know this. But what I understand is, A, those are two of the most polluted places on earth, that they have industrial toxins galore in the air that the people are breathing. Number two, they both embarked on hyper immunization campaigns in the months leading up to this, where they put basically metals into their body, like aluminum.

[00:54:13]Luke Storey:  From vaccinations? 

[00:54:14]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  From vaccination.

[00:54:16]Luke Storey:  Yeah.

[00:54:16]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And that plays into it because of the following. So, there's pollution, there's older population, there's a vaccination, there's stuff in the air that's probably not good, and these people are exposed to metallic poisons. Now, when you—so then, you introduce, and my, you know, sources say, so they introduced 5G in Wuhan. So, what does that do? Well, it does two things. It's sort of—I mean, I'm not an electrician or an EMF expert, so nobody should take me as that, but what I heard-

[00:54:53]Luke Storey:  Got it. And for the record, for those that are interested in hearing someone whose specialty is that, I've done a lot of episodes with people that are very knowledgeable about all of the various types of EMF, including the various frequencies of RF like 3G, 4G and 5G.

[00:55:11]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yes.

[00:55:12]Luke Storey:  Well, you know, anyone that listened to my show before knows that I covered this a lot because I'm very concerned about it. So, that's—you know, the caveat is welcome. And people can go find more information on that, too.

[00:55:24]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. But let's take two things that I am hearing a lot about. One is that somehow, these new frequencies, they're absorbed or interfered with or something to the oxygen in the air. It degrades the oxygen in the air, it makes it less bio available. The other thing is all of radio frequencies are increased absorbed into your body the more metals you have in your body. The metals act as antennas. And I can tell you in my practice, in my career, I really didn't want to get involved with EMFs because then, it's like, what do you do?

[00:56:12] And it's just a pain in the ass. Until eventually, I get—I had a guy, came in. He had, you know, cardiac arrhythmias. He was exhausted. Couldn't get out of bed. His life was a mess. And so, I got the history. He works putting in, you know, high intensity EMF systems, Wi-Fi in very rich people's houses. That's what he did. But he did that for years and he was fine. And then, he had a—he's a surfer, fell off a surfboard, broke his arm, they put a metal plate in his arm, next thing you know, two weeks later, he can't get out of bed.

[00:56:46] Two years later, he can't get out of bed. And it just hit me then that he became an antenna. And he was in a very toxic work environment, but he could—he was resistant to it. And then, he became an antenna because of what happened to him, and then he couldn't get out of bed. So, that really got me thinking about this. The next thing I found out was that basically, if you know structured water, I won't have to go into the whole thing, but all these radio frequencies are absorbed into the water and destructured.

[00:57:22] Now, I happen to know because I wrote a book on Cancer and the New Biology of Water, which basically says, you know, the destructuring of water is the cause of cancer. And for anybody just who doesn't believe me, A, read my book. But B, what the main tool we use is called an MRI device, right? Everybody knows MRI hurts your shoulder and you do an MRI. If you have a tumor, they want to know if it's real, they do an MRI. If you say to your doctor or to you, do you know what an MRI measures?

[00:57:59]Luke Storey:  Is it deuterium?

[00:58:00]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  No.

[00:58:01]Luke Storey:  Okay. Shit.

[00:58:02]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It measures the-

[00:58:02]Luke Storey:  I was hoping I would get that one right.

[00:58:04]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah, you didn't. It measures the relaxation phase of the water in your cells, which is a measurement of how structured the water is in your cell. It was an invention inspired by a guy named Gilbert Ling, who is the mentor of Gerry Pollack who discovered EZ Water.

[00:58:27]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[00:58:27]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Basically, it was his discovery that all the water in the cell is structured, when the structure deteriorates, then that shows up on this signal, which is integrated by the software in very complicated ways. And that shows up as a picture on the screen. And that's what we call a tumor. And it turns out that this structured water basically does everything in the cell, including it is the DNA in the nucleus, this genetic material, which are viruses, right?

[00:59:02] That's what a virus is, a little piece of DNA. The DNA is embedded in an encasement of structured water. Now, there will be people out there who say, "How do I know that?" I have references for that. I can't say them off the top of my head, but I wrote about it in my book, and all the references are in there. So, if you—please don't email me and say give me the reference. It's in the book. So-

[00:59:26]Luke Storey:  For that matter, don't email me either. It's in the show notes. His book is in the show notes. So, I'll take it one further.

[00:59:33]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. So, here's my hypothesis of what's happening here. You basically have metallic toxins that people are breathing into their lungs. They've also been injected with metallic toxins. Both of these tend to degrade the water and serve as antenna for new electromagnetic fields. Then you introduce the spark, which is a new electromagnetic field, this new radio frequency, and that degrades the water that the DNA is embedded in or the RNA. 

[01:00:12] That sends off a novel piece of DNA because they've never been exposed to that frequency before. The cell sees as, "Oh, this is a new piece. We better send out messages to all the other people and all the animals that there's a new toxin in town so that they can defend themselves." And that's what we call this coronavirus. And then, the people have, A, they have an immunological reaction, sometimes, an excessive one, but meanwhile, why does it happen in the lungs? Because their oxygen has been degraded, which will always end up with forming these injuries to their lungs.

[01:00:58] And so, that feeds on the problem, so it ends up showing up in the lungs and they have bleeding because like Martin Paul has described, which may or may not be true, but the 5G signal pushes the calcium into the cell so the calcium gets low in the blood, calcium in the blood as part of the so-called clotting or coagulation pathway. So then, you can't clot your blood, so you fall over dead because you have a hemorrhage. And you have hemorrhages in your lungs, which is exactly what we're seeing. And so, you know, is that—can I prove that with peer-reviewed literature?

[01:01:42] I mean, a lot of the steps, yes, but nobody has said, "Here's what's happening now." Now, then you say, "Well, what about places that supposedly don't have 5G?" So, it also could be different in different places. It could be different biological toxins. Remember, this is not a specific syndrome. There's no specific virus ever been isolated from anybody. There is no proof that normal people don't have—do or don't have this virus, and they've never transmitted it. Therefore, we have no—we've never counted the people's feet, so we don't know.

[01:02:24]Luke Storey:  Oh, man.

[01:02:25]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And so, that's the problem.

[01:02:27]Luke Storey:  Oh, that's so crazy.

[01:02:27]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And so, there could be different frequencies or it could be that their satellites. I mean, some people tell me they haven't started the satellites. Some people tell me they have. Once you send out a signal, it probably blankets the earth to a certain extent. So, that's why you see this sort of spreading. And anyways, there is a transmission part of this, right? There is a signal. And I sort of would finish with one of the things I said, and then I'll just sort of shut up here and answer, is the way I see the-

[01:03:06]Luke Storey:  By the way, you've already answered like the first ten of my questions, so we're doing great. Your ESP is working perfectly.

[01:03:14]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  The way I put it is if you're a dolphin doctor, world-famous dolphin doctor, and you noticed all the dolphins in the [indiscernible] or whatever you call it, islands. It's always been fun. You've been studying for decades. And then, somehow, some of the dolphins are dying, you know, like 10%. And they call you up. They say, "Luke, come down here, take a look at these dolphins." Now, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. I'm going to give you a multiple choice. You only get one question to ask them. Okay. Here's the three choices. One, do the Dolphins have a genetic disease? Two, do the dolphins have a virus? Three, did somebody put some stuff in the water which isn't good for the dolphins? 

[01:04:05]Luke Storey:  Three.

[01:04:06]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Three. 100% percent of the people say three except, apparently, doctors.

[01:04:12]Luke Storey:  Except the CDC.

[01:04:14]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Somebody put some stuff in the water, that's Exxon Valdez, kills the whales, they excrete toxins, which quite possibly are messengers that we confuse as viruses. Here's another story. This is a true story. When I was growing up in suburban Detroit, there was a wetland across the street from my house, from my window, and there was frogs in the wetlands, and they made a horrible racket. And I was a light sleeper so I couldn't sleep well, so I taped the windows and everything, and it didn't work. And then, when I was around eight or nine, the frog croaking went away. All the frogs were dead. Again, three choices. The frogs had a genetic disease, the frogs had a virus or somebody put DDT in the water.

[01:05:07]Luke Storey:  DDT in the water.

[01:05:08]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  That's what happened. So, I don't know why we—you see, the thing that I'm worried about, like what you said in the beginning is I can't really tell how bad this is. You know, people send me reports that the excess mortality rate is nothing. And then, other people say they're going to kill, you know, 10% of the population. I don't really know. Let's just say I don't know which of those. But my worry is somebody put some shit in our water. 

[01:05:47] And there's not a single drop of food or water or air or, you know, that's actually toxin-free these days. And they just cranked up the volume. And that's not a good thing because when you crank up the volume of a technology which is known to degrade DNA, which is, after all, what viruses are, then you might see people expressing these viruses and getting really sick. And I don't think that's a good thing. And I think I can stop there. And I know I've talked to your ear off, and I apologize.

[01:06:29]Luke Storey:  No, I've eaten it up. Don't apologize. This is exactly what I wanted to be talking about. If you—when you see me looking over here, by the way, I'm just checking a live feed. We're livestreaming on Instagram and it times out at a certain time. So, I peek over there. It's not that I'm looking at the clock or anything. I'm fully engaged here and fascinated. Now, I want to know, if you might know, you know, as much or more about this particular statistic. 

[01:06:58] But I have been seeing some things online that I can't cite exactly, but that there have been correlations over the course of history, I guess, post-industrial revolution, specifically that each time there's a new amplification of the electrification of our society, that there's a roll out of a new pandemic. So, in 1890, whatever, people got—you know, all of a sudden, there was widespread illness. Then, at the advent of radar in World War 1-

[01:07:29]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Essentially, radio waves and World War 1.

[01:07:32]Luke Storey:  Radio waves.

[01:07:33]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  In fact, I made a mistake, and it was a typo, I wrote something that said radar was rolled out in World War 1, which is not true.

[01:07:40]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[01:07:40]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It was the advent of the radio wavafication. That's not quite the right word, but you know what I mean. Radio wave blanketing of the earth. And interesting, Rudolf Steiner at 1918 said, "The world is blanketed with these unseen electrical forces and the repercussion of that is it makes it hard to be a human being."

[01:08:10]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[01:08:11]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And then we go on to radar, and then a new pandemic, and then I don't know exactly which one in '68 was then the Hong Kong flu. And if anybody wants to do—to read about that, and again, unless you've read Arthur Firstenberg's The Invisible Rainbow, where he documents this and gives references, please don't email me and say I was wrong about radio waves and radar. And right, I made a typo on the thing. It was radio waves in 1980.

[01:08:46]Luke Storey:  Got it.

[01:08:46]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Okay. If you haven't read that, don't ask me for references.

[01:08:50]Luke Storey:  Can you name that-

[01:08:51]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It's all in the-

[01:08:52]Luke Storey:  Can you name that book again, Tom, for our show notes?

[01:08:54]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It's called The Invisible Rainbow by Arthur Firstenberg.

[01:08:58]Luke Storey:  And in The Invisible Rainbow, he describes this span of time in which it's been punctuated by these developments in technology, and that they're being corresponded with pandemics resulting from that expansion.

[01:09:14]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Exactly.

[01:09:15]Luke Storey:  Yeah. I'm a big fan of correlation, you know, because when you can't find the causation, well, the next logical step is correlation, like what happened also, just like your example of the frogs out in the marsh and the DDT, we're unable, as a species, to really be—you know, to zoom out of an issue when we're in the middle of it, we seem to only be able to do it in hindsight. And I think that's one of the things I really like doing on the show is rather than us having to wait 20 years and looking back on coronavirus and what might have happened, let's look at it from a different point of view right now and try and, you know, zoom out a bit and not just take the information we're getting at face value, obviously, also due to the fact that the information is so obviously skewed, especially the information coming out of China.

[01:10:06] Like as if American media could be even worse, like imagine that, it's like, well, yeah, it's even worse, exponentially worse in China. It's a communist country. I mean, hello. You know, I think a lot of people that don't—and I'm not even a history buff, but I know enough to know that, you know, you have a totalitarian regime watching their news reports and believing what they say is probably unwise. So, I find those correlations really, really interesting. And I'm glad there's a book about it because I can actually, you know, get some more—to speculate less and actually get some historical like-

[01:10:44]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah. I mean, all the references are there. And even the mechanism. You know, again, you increase electrification, that pushes the calcium into the cell, the calcium goes low. People die of hemorrhage, which is exactly what they said they were dying off in World War—in the Spanish flu. It was also, by the way—and you see, it doesn't necessarily help to always be simplistic about this, like there was also the advent of aspirin, which is a blood thinner, right? 

[01:11:14] And people were taking 30 to 40 aspirins a day because it was the wonder drug to treat the Spanish flu. So, at the same time, they were pushing the calcium into the cell, lowering the calcium in the blood, which makes you bleed. And they were being told to take up to 30 to 40 different aspirins a day, which side effect is bleeding, and they report that the number one cause of death was spontaneous hemorrhage. And the best treatment in the Spanish flu time was intravenous calcium lactate.

[01:11:50]Luke Storey:  Oh, wow.

[01:11:50]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  That makes no sense except through that story. You know, you did something which we have very clear documentation effects the calcium level of the ionized calcium in the blood that causes clotting. You give somebody a blood thinner to make them bleed even more, and then they bleed. I mean-

[01:12:15]Luke Storey:  Something—yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put those pieces together, something that's interesting going further into the metal's issue that I've always wondered about and on the more conspiratorial side, there are some people talking about this with the widespread geoengineering and the metal particulate that's in the air and, you know, one can only assume ending up in our lungs and water and food supply, in addition to the heavy metals and pesticides, just all of the metal particulate that a human body tends to take in over time.

[01:12:52]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And vaccines. 

[01:12:53]Luke Storey:  And yeah. And as you said, in the vaccines, I did get some information about it. And again, some of these things are like, "Oh, I heard from so-and-so that heard from so-and-so.

[01:13:02]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right.

[01:13:02]Luke Storey:  So, you know, any meme you see online can't be taken as fact, just like mainstream media can't be taken at face value.

[01:13:07]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right.

[01:13:08]Luke Storey:  I think alternative media needs to be held up to the same scrutiny, but there is some indication that as you were saying earlier that Wuhan is also just full of roundup and it's one of the most toxic pesticide-laden places on the planet. So, this might be really one of those perfect storm situations where you have all of these different converging elements and negative influences happening at once, and then poof, you have an outbreak. And I guess that being the case, then you get into the, okay, well, if no one's really-. 

[01:13:46]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Well, let me just stop you for a minute there because I have a very dear friend who's probably one of the three most knowledgeable, glyphosate, which is the active ingredient roundup people in the world. She's done, you know, a significant part of the original research on this. And she just put out a paper saying, you know, that Europe has, to a large extent, converted to biodiesel, right? So, they grow corn and they use that as their fuel source, which then gets spewed into the air.

[01:14:20] Now, everybody knows that the corn that they're growing for biodiesel is not biodynamically grown corn, right? That is roundup ready glyphosate-soaked corn, which then gets into the body of the corn, which is then converted into fuel, which is the "green fuel" of Europe. So, they use biodiesel, too, which is then vaporized—vaporized may not be the right word. And the reason I try to be clear is because then, I get 50 emails, you said it was vaporized. So-

[01:14:58]Luke Storey:  Let's just say it's made airborne.

[01:15:00]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Somehow, it's burned in the engine. I'm not an engineer.

[01:15:04]Luke Storey:  Right.

[01:15:04]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  I don't exactly know what happens in a combust—you know, what do you call it? A combustible engine or something.

[01:15:11]Luke Storey:  Combustion engine.

[01:15:12]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah. Anyways, it goes into, there's exhaust. The exhaust probably has some glyphosate in it, which then gets breathed in the air into your lungs, and then you may have damage to your lungs. Now, just, let's be clear. Do I know that that's the cause of this situation? Absolutely not. But what I do know is if you give me a choice between having glyphosate in my air or not, even if I don't have a study, I choose not.

[01:15:49]Luke Storey:  So, if this thing erupts as it did and we start getting news reports out of China, and then they're echoed by our media. And the first story we're given is that people are eating bat soup in Wuhan, and that this is happening as a result of that, then, you know, if there's no clear—what is going on and no clear answers in terms of that, then one has to logically go to the next question, which is why. And then, furthermore, who, right? 

[01:16:20] So, it's like, well, who stands to benefit from creating confusion around something that is probably solvable by some means of logic as we're sort of stumbling our way through here? Then, you look at the end result of said pandemic and the end result worldwide now, as we're seeing at the time of this recording, is a dramatic loss of civil liberties and freedoms in the interest of public safety. And I think for me, this is where it gets really confusing because I'm here in Los Angeles, you're in northern California.

[01:16:55] And right now, we have—I don't even—I just don't leave the house. I love staying home. So, I'm fine. And I have some food, have a girlfriend, cute dogs in the back here. So, not going out is not a problem for me. Thankfully, I do this for a living, but apparently, there's, you know, a kind of martial law light happening here, this safe at home initiative or order, rather. And, you know, now, we're seeing talk from people like Bill Gates about microchip vaccines and, you know, there's talk of, well, we better not have cash now because, of course, cash can carry viruses or cashless society. 

[01:17:33] I mean, it's getting very Orwellian new world order very quickly in reaction to this. And then, you know, this might be beyond your area of expertise or even something you want to comment on, but my mind can't help but wonder, okay, if there are so many anomalies to this, and if it's just so obviously a case of the official narrative having huge holes in it, then who stands to benefit? And what is this really all about? 

[01:18:00] Have you looked at it from that point of view, from, you know—well, obviously, pharmaceutical companies will benefit if they magically come up with a vaccine for a virus that we don't even really know exists or might not even be the problem. You know, it just gets really murky when you even get beyond what we're talking about. So, what might you have to say about that side of it? Like what could possibly be going on if it's not the official story?

[01:18:28]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  So, Luke, let me just say, I appreciate your concerns. At this point, I think it's best for me to just not comment on that.

[01:18:37]Luke Storey:  Okay. Fair enough.

[01:18:38]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  But I am going to tell you a story of why—of how really awful I think this really is.

[01:18:46]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[01:18:46]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And this is a story—I don't want to—I'm not trying to put you off here, and I'm not trying to say you're wrong or you're right, I just think it's better for me at this point in my evolution with this to just stick to what I do.

[01:19:04]Luke Storey:  Sure.

[01:19:04]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  But here's a story that's 100% true, which is really awful, right? So, I can 100% guarantee this is an actual story. My wife was at the local food co-op yesterday. They have to stand in line every six feet, you know, and they only let a certain amount of people go in at a time. She comes out—and she gave me permission to tell this story, she comes out with her bags to grocery and sees a elderly, well-dressed African-American man lying on the ground. He just fell and hit his head. 

[01:19:44] And he was bleeding from the head and looked dazed and confused, right? That's the story. Everybody standing in line, literally, nobody did or said anything. They kept either looking at their phones or looking at him and nobody went to ask him how he is, does he need help, "Can I help you up? Can I call 911? Can I find your wife?" Turns out he had a wife who was back there. So, my wife goes up and asked hum, you know, is he okay and could she do anything to help.

[01:20:23] She gets them to call 911, finds his wife, and they helped them up, and, you know, then he goes and gets help. As a result of this, we are at serious risk of becoming non-empathetic robotic beings. And all the other things you said are really awful. And I don't know if or how any of them are true, I suspect that you know a lot about this, and it's probably true. But I know that this has happened. I know that people are dissociating from each other and their life is becoming on a screen.

[01:21:08] And that is an awful development in the history of human. And I can tell you that story is true, and it's happening all over the world. People are convinced that our fellow human beings are not to be cared about. It's okay if the dolphins died. It's okay if the daffodils die. It's okay if all the bees are gone. It's okay if the birds are gone because I have mine and I have my cell phone and I'm okay. And that's really spooky.

[01:21:44]Luke Storey:  That is spooky. Yeah, I think one of the things for me that's challenging about this is you want to be civil, you want to be obedient, you don't want to leave the house and gather in public and put people at risk because you're told that that could be risky and you want to do the right thing, but I think what I'm observing is that because of the media's reaction and because we're really also unsure about exactly what's going on, that people are really in a hurry to give up their liberty and their freedom and their empathy-

[01:22:27]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And their humanity.

[01:22:28]Luke Storey:  And their humanity. And it's-

[01:22:30]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And if you don't have that, what's the point?

[01:22:32]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And so, you know, I didn't expect you'd necessarily have the answer to that. And I'm working on these answers. But that's the thing about it to me that's so puzzling, is if you start to uncover some of the mysterious origins of this and, as I said, the official narrative, just as many holes in it, it's like, "Well, what's the motive then for this?" And you have to look at who benefits. And that's what leads me down, well, there's, you know, more government control being unleashed upon us and people are being strangely obedient.

[01:23:05] And I think it's because our—the better part of humanity is perhaps being played on because we don't want to be the one that goes out and gets people sick and breaks the rules, right? So, like it's just a really strange, strange time. But aside from that, I do want to go back to a couple of the things just around viruses. When you were talking about the virus being a signal from our body that there is an invasion or that there's something wrong, it brought to mind HIV, and then HIV turning into AIDS, does that work in a similar way, like that model-

[01:23:46]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  It's the same story.

[01:23:47]Luke Storey:  Okay. Got it. And that's why that particular one also, I guess like so many viral infections is so mysterious and kind of unsolved and no one really knows how it all works, and it's just a weird-

[01:24:01]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah, it's the same story.

[01:24:02]Luke Storey:  The whole viral game, all in all, is just so bizarre.

[01:24:05]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  This rodeo has been played before.

[01:24:08]Luke Storey:  Got it. And has this been the case with many of the viral pandemics that we faced, some of which you mentioned earlier, Ebola, Zika, et cetera?

[01:24:17]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yes.

[01:24:17]Luke Storey:  Is there always kind of this unsolvable mystery to them?

[01:24:21]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yes, read Virus Mania.

[01:24:23]Luke Storey:  Virus Mania, okay, another great book for the show notes.

[01:24:27]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  I have a possible way out for people if you would-

[01:24:31]Luke Storey:  Okay. Good. Let's go there then. Love that.

[01:24:35]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And this is not—I must—I'm going to credit of the person who I'm going to read this from.

[01:24:41]Luke Storey:  Okay.

[01:24:41]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And I've talked about him before. His name is Rudolf Steiner.

[01:24:44]Luke Storey:  Yes.

[01:24:44]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  And he wrote this, quote, verse or something that people can say on a daily basis in trying times. So, I'm going to read it to you. It's called A Verse for Our Time, "We must eradicate from the soul all fear and terror of what comes toward man out of the future. We must acquire serenity in all feelings and sensations about the future. We must look forward with absolute equanimity to everything that may come.

[01:25:19] And we must think that whatever comes is given to us by world directive full of wisdom. It is part of what we must learn in this age, namely to live out of pure trust without any security in existence. Trust in the ever-present help of the spiritual world. Truly, nothing else will do if our courage is not to fail us. And let us see this awakening from within ourselves every morning and every evening."

[01:25:54]Luke Storey:  That's amazing.

[01:25:56]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  That's the way out.

[01:25:57]Luke Storey:  That's a beautiful reading. It is a way out. It's in our perception and our trust of the greater plan that's beyond our current point of view, right?

[01:26:08]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah.

[01:26:09]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's funny that you took it to that because I did—I recorded a solo show a couple days ago that will have come out a week before your episode comes out, and in which, I posed a lot of questions and concerns in the beginning part of it, and then I was sort of left with, well, God, this is getting a bit doom and gloom, so what's the solution? And in a nutshell, essentially, that's what I came up with. And I think for me, it's like, my goal with speaking to you and the different people that I will inevitably be talking to about the issue at hand is to try to get some semblance of what's going on.

[01:26:47] And if there is anything interpersonally or just in terms of the way we look at our medical system or anything in the future that can be gained, but at the end of the day, it's like really all of this is so beyond control. I can't control the 5G towers being put up in Wuhan and whether or not they did anything to the poor people there or not. It's kind of just about building awareness. And I'm always walking that razor's edge between awareness and fear within my own life.

[01:27:17] And, you know, I have a Wi-Fi router here in the house, and it's needed right now. So, it's like, you know, am I going to sit here and make myself sick and kill, you know, my immune system from worrying about the Wi-Fi router? No, but I also want to be informed, you know. And so, there's a fine line between building awareness about some of these issues that face us and also knowing like, hey, it's kind of a thing like one of my favorite phrases is, "Trust God, tie up your camel." So-

[01:27:47]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Yeah, people, there's help out there. Whether you-

[01:27:50]Luke Storey:  You take whatever precautions you can. You-

[01:27:52]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Whether you know it or not, there's help.

[01:27:55]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And there is a master plan, whether it seems so in the moment or not. So, thank you for bringing light to that because I know it's really easy for some of us to kind of go down the doomsday path, especially in light of, you know, not only the potential of getting ill, but just the reaction that we're seeing in just unprecedented roll out of so much authoritarian behavior. It's like, whoa, these are the things we heard the conspiracy theories talking about 20-30 years ago. And now, it's like, whoa, some of them were right about some of the things, you know, and that can be a bit disheartening.

[01:28:30]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right. Here we are.

[01:28:31]Luke Storey:  Fear doesn't really get us anywhere. So, I thank you for that. And I thank you for your information and all the expertise that you brought to this and giving, you know, your take on it thus far. And I look forward to talking to you again. Hopefully, we can dig into something a little lighter next time, like the science of water and, you know, the Quinton minerals and all of these wonderful things that I know you and I are a fan of.

[01:28:56]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Right.

[01:28:57]Luke Storey:  All right, man. Well, thank you so much for your time, Tom. And I look forward to speaking to you soon.

[01:29:01]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Ok. Thank you, Luke. I really appreciate it.

[01:29:03]Luke Storey:  Oh, man, you too. Bye.

[01:29:05]Dr. Thomas Cowan:  Bye-bye.

[01:29:11]

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