264. Soul Mate GPS: Finding The Love You Want (Without Losing Yourself) W/ John Wineland

John Wineland

February 25, 2020

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Spiritual intimacy teacher John Wineland returns to talk about conscious sexuality, why men need to cultivate the divine feminine, conscious ways to end a relationship, revealing the truth in your heart to the person you live, & so much more.

For the better part of a decade, John Wineland, an LA-based men's group facilitator, speaker, and teacher has been guiding both men and women in the realms of life purpose, relational communication, sexual intimacy, and embodiment. 

Known for his groundbreaking work with men, John travels world-wide teaching his vision of embodied men's work and deep relational practice.  In 2014, he founded The New Men’s Work Project, which has attracted men from around the world looking to develop as leaders in their relationships and communities. The Project is committed to the staggering goal of creating 1000 men's groups worldwide in the next ten years and has already supported trainings and groups throughout Europe and the U.S.  John's clients include entrepreneurs, leading thinkers in the world of entertainment, Ted speakers and creative leaders in Hollywood.

John brings a multi-faceted approach, which is both energetic and highly practical, to his workshops and experiential coaching sessions. John's embodiment-driven teaching draws from not only over 30 years of experience with his own Buddhist meditative practice but from 10 years of intensive study and practice with renowned Yogic Intimacy teacher, David Deida.  Drawing from Deida's revolutionary framework, as well as the deep lineages of Vajrayana, Tantra, Kundalini yoga, Taoist and Iron Shirt Qigong traditions, John seeks to create a profound experience for men and women longing to express their deepest desires with open, fierce and loving hearts. 

John's work has been featured on multiple podcasts and publications; including Zen Habits, The Elephant Journal, Sex with Emily, Man Talks, The Good Men Project and Love TV.  John's first book, The Art of Masculine Leadership, will be available in the fall.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

John Wineland is an LA-based men's group facilitator, speaker, and teacher who has been guiding both men and women — including yours truly — in the realms of life purpose, relational communication, sexual intimacy, and embodiment for the better part of a decade. His teachings are profound and powerful, but he seems to have the unique ability to deliver it with a light and humble heart. I don’t know if I’ve met another individual on this planet as warm and receptive as John.

John's embodiment-driven teaching draws from not only over 30 years of experience with his own Buddhist meditative practice but also from 10 years of intensive study and practice with the renowned Yogic Intimacy teacher David Deida. Drawing from Deida's revolutionary framework — as well as the deep lineages of Vajrayana, Tantra, Kundalini yoga, Taoist, and Iron Shirt Qigong traditions — John seeks to create a profound experience for people longing to express their deepest desires with open, fierce, and loving hearts.

This multi-faceted approach is both energetic and highly practical, which I can vouch for personally — John’s guidance helped me expand my capacity for communicating with, understanding, and feeling understood by members of the opposite sex (although I’m sure his work can be applied to all relationships, regardless of what they look like). 

This episode is almost like a one-on-one coaching session, and a lot of the questions I ask him come from a very personal place. So, you’re going to get a very honest view of what my romantic journey has been like and what I’m looking for out of a relationship today.

08:20 — What’s the newest development in John’s constantly-evolving teachings?

  • What does it mean to be healthy, sexually?
  • The stages of health
  • The most sacred form of sexual health

11:30 — Conscious sexuality

  • Why are people so interested in podcasts about sex?
  • How most of us first learn about sex: kids at school and movies (or pornography)
  • Having casual sex — yay or nay?
  • When should sex enter the equation in a new relationship?
  • How we can create negative karma with unconscious sex
  • Conversations that we should be having in all of our intimate relationships, serious or casual

21:30 — Why men need to cultivate the feminine more deeply

  • Moving beyond the desire for casual sex
  • Any spiritual practice will make you more open and receptive, which will activate the feminine part of you that wants love, wants connection
  • You can’t own your masculine if you’re rejecting your feminine

28:10 — Conscious ways to end a relationship

  • Do men and women have different preferences?
  • A recipe for the ideal way to end a relationship
  • Toxic Masculinity Vs. Toxic Femininity
  • There’s nothing wrong with feeling any emotion — it’s how they’re contained that can become an issue
  • What should be priority #1 for men

36:12 — Learning masculine energy individuals can learn to have an awareness of their feminine

  • It only takes three or four sentences (and a lot of courage) to communicate what’s in the depth of your heart...
  • ...and you shouldn’t just accept it if someone shames you for that
  • Good feedback Vs. Bad feedback in a relationship
  • What we can learn about relationships from movies
  • What can and should men bring to a modern, powerful woman?
  • Integrating physical practices to build a deeper level of awareness and perception

55:57 — A huge challenge for every person today: revealing the truth of your heart (in a way that it can be accepted and honored)

  • The art of revealing the truth of your heart as a gift
  • It requires yogic practice and nervous system training to master this art
  • Do you have a Masculine Core or a Feminine Core — relationally, sexually, and spiritually?
  • When you might have to step into the masculine or feminine, even if it’s not natural for you, to support your partner
  • How do you know if you’re in a relationship that’s wrong for you or if you need to do more inner work?

01:09:33 — Relating John’s teachings to my recent ayahuasca experience

  • You have to be able to hold your own feminine before you can hold someone else’s in a relationship
  • Knowing when it’s enough

01:16:17 — What tools can someone use who embodies masculine energy at work but wants to embody feminine energy in their relationships? How do you balance that?

  • Developing a pleasure practice
  • Practicing the art of surrender
  • How to cultivate sensitivity
  • A transformative eye-gazing practice that John teaches and Luke loves

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

John Wineland:  And I see women all the time like really want to give their hearts, but feel really scared to do so because they don't trust men, they don't trust men's capacities. And that's kind of rightly so.

Luke Storey:  I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest fashion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist Podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. I wonder if you can guess what my very favorite herb in the entire world is. You think you can guess, think about it for a second. What is Luke's favorite herb? What's the herb that he uses every day above all else? 

Well, I'm going to give you a hint. It's called coffee, folks. What's even cooler though, is my friends over at Four Sigmatic now make a mushroom coffee. It's got medicinal mushrooms, like lion's mane and chaga. Chaga is the King of mushrooms, supports your immune system. It's got hell of antioxidants. It's amazing. Now, these shrooms don't contain psilocybin, but they do help you think and be more creative, especially the lion’s mane. It's my brain's best friend. It supports focus, productivity, and creativity during my busy days of recording and doing all the other shenanigans that I get up to. 

And I know what you're thinking, you're probably thinking, “Wait, this coffee has mushrooms in it. Isn't it gross?” You're probably also thinking, “Wait. Coffee is an herb?” Yeah. It's an herb. It's not like the kind of herb that you smoke. I know what you're thinking. Shrooms, herb, that's not where I'm going here, guys. I'm talking about clean living. I’m talking about being awake, being alert, and having energy. And that's why I love the Four Sigmatic mushroom coffee. You can get your grubby little hands on some of this by getting over to foursigmatic.com/lukestorey. That's F-O-U-R-S-I-G-M-A-T-I-C, foursigmatic.com/luke. 

Just by going to that webpage, you're going to save 15% off your order. What's really cool though, I got this backup here about the Four Sigmatic coffee is it comes in easy-to-use packets that you can take anywhere. So, you put them in your gym bag, your suitcase, your purse. I have these things kind of stashed all over my life, in every suitcase, every bag, like my shaving kit that I travel with, even though I don't shave, obviously. Who needs to shave when you can drink this delicious coffee? No, I'm just kidding, but not really. But I'd love for you to check it out. It's amazing coffee. It's organic, mold free, all that good stuff. You can find it at foursigmatic.com/lukestorey. That's foursigmatic.com/lukestorey. Get your mushroom coffee over there.

Let's take a moment to celebrate this fortuitous and very auspicious moment, folks, you just stumbled across. Episode 264 of The Life Stylist Podcast, Soulmate GPS, finding the love you want without losing yourself, featuring one of our most popular guests and one that's been on the show twice before on episodes 31 and 85, respectively, none other than John Wineland. He's an LA-based men's group facilitators, speaker and teacher who's been guiding both men and women, including yours truly in the realms of life purpose, relational communication, sexual intimacy, and embodiment for the better part of a decade. 

And I've got to say, I can give a testament to John's work and how it has helped to expand my capacity for relating, specifically relating with members of the opposite sex. Although, I'm sure that his work is very useful for people in relationships with people of the same sex. John brings a multifaceted approach, which is both energetic and highly practical to his workshops and experiential coaching sessions. His embodiment-driven teaching draws not only from over 30 years of experience of his own Buddhist meditative practice, but also from 10 years of extensive study and practice with renowned yoga intimacy teacher David Deida, one of my other favorites. 

Drawing from Deida's revolutionary framework as well as the deep lineages of tantra, Kundalini yoga, Taoist and iron shirt qigong traditions, John seeks to create a profound experience for men and women longing to express their deepest desires with open, fierce, and loving hearts. And I got to say, man, speaking of love, I love John. Every time I see this guy, he's just so warm and open and receptive. And although his teaching is profound and powerful, he seems to be able to have the unique ability to deliver it with a light and humble heart, which is something I truly appreciate. 

You know, when you're in the presence of a master, someone who's really nailed their area of expertise, but are still able to remain teachable. And it's a really great quality. And so, this goes out with much gratitude to John. I've learned so much in his workshops, as terrifying as they've been at certain times. We might allude to that in this conversation, but this one's almost like a one-on-one coaching session. I mean, my questions were very personal at the time of this recording, which by the way, shout out to Attune, the amazing event where this was recorded in Atlanta, along with my Joe Dispenza, a prior show that came out a couple of weeks ago, and the upcoming shows with Sahara Rose and ICONA, respectively.

You can look forward to those. This was a part of the Attune series. So, I'm very grateful that they gave me the opportunity to sit down with John in person, because even though we both live in LA, sometimes, it's actually difficult to get him in person. So, I was really happy to be able to do that. But man, he's just awesome and I've learned so much from him. And in this conversation, it was, like I said, you're kind of a fly on the wall and I'll probably be mortified after I released this, but hey, it's too late now. Here it is. It's in your feed, man. You're about to listen to it. 

Tuesday, I'm going to be back with a show called Maximum Meditation with NuCalm, The Ultimate Stress Release System featuring Jim Poole. And that's something I discovered a few months ago. And I am obsessed with this technology. I mean, I'm a pretty good meditator. I've been doing it for 20 plus years, maybe 23 now or so with some regularity and commitment. But this device called the NuCalm has taken it to the next level. And so, we talk a lot about stress relief with Jim, not just about this particular modality or device, but just how stress works in your brain. And that's on next Tuesday. 

And then, the following Friday, I'll be back with a solo show called The Flow State Formula, Neurohacking Mindfulness, which is a recording of a live talk I did some months ago at an amazing event in LA called the Mercado Sagrado. A couple upcoming events, I'll be at Upgrade Labs - Biohacking conference, March 27th through 29th, Paleo f[x] in Austin, April 24th through 26th, Meet Delic in LA, May 2nd through 3rd. And you can find those events and tickets to them at lukestorey.com/events. That being said, man, let's jump right into this very intimate and enlightening conversation with one of my favorite teachers in the world, Mr. John Wineland. John Wineland, third time back. Third time's a charm. Welcome. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah Good to be with you, man. 

Luke Storey:  Dude, I'm glad we got-

John Wineland:  What a treat. Yeah. Yeah.

Luke Storey:  I'm glad we got to do this. And also, I think out of 250 episodes, this is probably the earliest one I've ever done. Like we booked it for 10:00 AM, which for normal people, I understand like, they're like, “Dude, I'm at work at 8:00”, you know?

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  But I was like, can I even talk at 10:00? I don't know. We'll find out. So, you can though. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Well, I get up early. 

Luke Storey:  So, I want to jump right into it. Unfortunately, because I was recording yesterday, I missed your talk here, but I've done a considerable amount of work with you. You know, a few of your workshops and stuff, which had been majorly transformative. I've talked about them a lot on the show.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Because they've been pivotal experience as a male navigating my way through romantic relationships. And so, first thing I want to ask you is like, what's your hot take right now? What's the newest kind of development or awakening that you're having in your teaching?

John Wineland:  Wow. That's a good question. I hadn't really thought about like what's the—I think the thing that I'm doing here is I'm taking a look at what it means to be healthy sexually, you know, as part of the sort of health and wellness prism, right? That this is—that this whole workshop is about, this whole conference is about. And I think the way that I've structured it seems pretty relevant. And, you know, there's stages of health, right? In the first stage of health, it's all about self-expression, right? So, we want to be able to express ourselves sexually, fully, you know, from the light, complete light energy of divine love to the dark energy of, you know, dark fuck. You know, we want to be—and everywhere in between. So, we want to be—I can say that on your podcast? 

Luke Storey:  Totally. Whatever you want. It’s just funny. Sometimes, I forget that that—you're not like, “Well, when we're lovemaking-”, you know, you're just like-

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  It's got to be a good fuck. 

John Wineland:  You talk to rose petal and you like move it on her third eye as you sing mantra to her. Yeah. I mean, there's that. That's great. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  But there's also the biting, scratching. And so, sexual expression, healthy sexual expression is the whole spectrum. The base to the treble, right? Low notes to the high notes. And learning how to do that, that's the sort of first stage of sexual health. And then, once we get good at all of that, which most people don't even get to that space, like right, they can really—most people will collapse at certain energy. So, what I've been working on here is, you know, what are the energies that you're—what are the gifts you naturally bring? Like people can just feel like you're good at bringing ... as a sexual romantic partner. 

And then, what are the energies that you want to bring more of? I think we might've done something like this in a workshop that you’re a part, like what's the like fierce love or dark lover or, you know, dominance or whatever it is or surrender, or what's the one of the energies you want to bring more? So, once you get past that, then it's all about, okay, how do I take that to other and be really sensitive to other? And to take my personal expression in, give it in chunks that people can metabolize and that turn them on and that open them and all that. And then, once you get good at that, I mean, there's a whole bunch of sub strata here, but then, once you get good at that, it's about how do you incorporate the divine and make, it's not about what she wants or he wants. 

It's not about what you want. It's about what God wants, so to speak. Put the divine once in the moment, which might be something that like you're not even wanting in that moment, right? But you know that it's going to open love deeper in the moment. And so, sexual health, you know, this most sacred form of sexual health actually involves the releasing of your preferences, because you're an instrument for something greater that wants to come through as, you know, divine love fuck, you know? So, that's been the take that I've been bringing here this weekend. 

Luke Storey:  I bet that's been a big hit. 

John Wineland:  So far. So good. Yeah. So far, so good. Yeah.

Luke Storey:  I have noticed, probably, you know, not by accident that some of the shows I've done that have the word sex or sexuality in the title tend to be some of the highest downloads, one of yours, I think and then, one of John Gray’s also.

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  Because this is something we all just kind of figure out, right? I mean we're kids, we don't learn usually in a healthy way unless we have very conscious parents. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And as men, I think many of us learn from pornography and like bros at school. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  And then, you go out and try and, you know, bring that to your early explorations.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And that sometimes-

John Wineland:  You're on your own.

Luke Storey:  ... it's not well received. You know, then you could—you know, the whole thing, the whole story. So, I think it's a really important conversation to have.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And especially for those of us that are seeking to live more consciously and being able to integrate sexuality into our lives in a way that is productive, not destructive.

John Wineland:  Yeah. Well, if you think about it, if you break it down, how at least boys will talk about boys since you and I are men, like how we learned about sex, there was basically nothing from our parents, very little, right? Then, there was, you know, some kind of pornography movies maybe, like R-rated movies, I don't know. But, you know, something about Mary kind of stuff. And then, alcohol and drugs kind of helped make it happen, right? 

Luke Storey:  Very much so. Yeah. 

John Wineland:  So, that's kind of our education when you think about it, right? It's pretty fucked up, but like-

Luke Storey:  Become totally unconscious and then like.

John Wineland:  And then, you’re drunk.

Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah. 

John Wineland:  And then, fuck and see how it goes, right?

Luke Storey:  Right. 

John Wineland:  You know what I mean? Like that's how most of us have learned about sex. And so, yeah, there's a complete retraining that needs to happen around conscious sexuality and what that means. 

Luke Storey:  I'm curious what your take is on having conscious sex in a casual, non-committed type of relationship, friends with benefits, booty call kind of situation, because I've had a lot of those relationships in the past and then, that kind of became unfulfilling and I sought to seek deeper meaning and a deeper level of intimacy. And I've also been in relations. And so, those, maybe the more casual relationships were based on sexual compatibility and great chemistry or perhaps, there was an alignment in other values. 

And then, there have also been relationships that have been very bonding in other ways, but perhaps, the sexual element of the relationship wasn't as strong. And so, I'm always kind of left at a place where like if you lead with sex and that's all you've got, you might not have a great foundation for a long-term healthy relationship. But if you don't kind of introduce that somewhat early in a relationship, you don't really know what you've got. 

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  So, I don’t know if there's a question in there. It's sort of just a-

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  ... pondering of like, when does sex enter the equation and what's a healthy way to go about getting to know someone in that way?

John Wineland:  Yeah. Well, I have a personal preference, which is to take a little time, you know, take, you know, a little time not doing it on the first night, getting to know somebody for a few nights, kind of feeling into it, that kind of stuff. I've gone as long as three months centering a relationship. And, you know, I think if you wait to have sex and you bring all the heat without the sex first, then by the time you have the sex, you know, you kind of know, right? And if there's chemistry and if there's a good compatibility, that kind of thing. So, I think that—I think it's allؙ—you know, sometimes one-night stands can be the most conscious, beautiful, deeply loving experiences, right? 

There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that doing them consciously. And by consciously, I mean, being aware, both partners being aware of what they're stepping into, really feeling it. Really feeling it. Like feeling it, okay, can I give my heart to this man for one night, because I know he's not interested in a relationship? You know, can I fully love this woman and can she handle me leaving? Like most guys will just say, “Well, you know, I told her I wasn't available for relationship. And then, we had sex for four nights. And by the end of it, she's like wanting more. And I'm like, I said, ‘I told you.’” And guys justify that when they could feel, when you could feel, you know. You can tell when-

Luke Storey:  I know a guy that's done that before.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  Yeah. So, as a masculine partner, I'm saying like, don't create bad karma. You know, like if you can feel in your heart that this woman, you're not—you are just interested in something that will be pain for her, don't do it. Why do it? Like why be so—that's kind of desperate, you know. And I think people can get desperate for sex and do stupid shit and do shit that creates bad karma. So yeah, I'm all for it. If both partners are like, yeah, let's have a one-night stand and we bow, we like, you know, love each other like with wild abandon and then, we bow, we move on. 

That's great. I think the same thing with friends with benefits, as long as both partners are really bringing honesty and true consciousness to it, why not? Like there's no limit on how much conscious, beautiful, deep sex we can have as long as there's a feeling into, are we creating any karmic hooks? Are we creating any negative karma, you know, that's going to hurt them and hurt us? And, you know, then we have to clean up. 

Luke Storey:  I experienced earlier in life and I'm not really there now, where I really enjoyed my freedom, you know, through my 20s and 30s and wasn't really interested in relationships or being monogamous or anything like that, but at the same time, I had gotten sober and it was really necessary for me to be honest in all my affairs in order to maintain my sanity. Then, ultimately, my sobriety and ultimately, like being able to live, you know, live my life out and not prematurely exit the planet. So, like honesty was a really integral part of my life.

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey: And still is, even more so than ever. And so, when I, you know, met myself at that place like, well, I'm 35, like I work in the fashion and entertainment industry. I'm meeting a lot of women. I'm having fun.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  But I want to be honest. I started just being very forthright as you just described, like, “Hey, listen, you know, we met, we seem to dig each other. Here's what I'm in for. Here's what I'm not in for.” And being like brutally, brutally honest to the point where sometimes, it was a bit harsh even, you know. But before any feelings or oftentimes, any intimacy even transpired. And what I experienced from time to time was people getting hurt, women getting hurt. because of like I'm saying one thing, but then, I'm kind of doing another, you know.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  So, I'm expressing very specifically that like it's just this thing and we're not going to be in a relationship and they're nodding, “Oh, yeah, totally. I get it. I'm a modern woman. I'm a feminist. Like I get it. I have my freedom, too.”

John Wineland:  Right. 

Luke Storey:  Cool. But then, if it happens too often and you throw in a couple of sleepovers and it starts getting a little too cuddly and there's a certain sort of threshold of intimacy and caringness that just naturally happens between two people, then they'd kind of be like, “Well, what's going on here?” I'm like, “What I told you”, you know? But in other words, it's like I found at times, women would not listen to what I said, but they would watch what I did. And so, I think at times, and thankfully, this is—you know, I've learned a lot since then, but going back, I was somewhat irresponsible, because I thought just telling them was enough.

John Wineland:  Right. Right. 

Luke Storey:  But I had to sort of learn how to have discipline and really, you know, not make it a regular thing or get too involved, because even though mentally, perhaps they didn't—they were trying to protect themselves, their hearts would get involved. 

John Wineland:  Sure. If they have a feminine essence, then, you know, anytime you take them deep sexually, you know, anytime there's depth sexually, it's very hard for someone with the feminine essence not to want more of that. And there's all kinds of biological reasons, the way the women bond sexually, oxytocin, those kinds of things. So, you know, it stays in them for a long time. So, naturally, women, feminists or not, they get wired for attachment different than most men. And I think where most guys run into problems is you could say, “Hey, here's what I'm in for”, but you can feel their capacity when they start to get hooked. And if you blow past that point where your heart kind of knows, then I think you're now entering the realm of irresponsible kind of karma, creating negative karma, creating, relating. And it's just going to be painful, you know?

Luke Storey:  Right.

John Wineland:  So, I think it's—you know, again, I try to teach men, just bring consciousness, like bring real consciousness and real depth and I think it's great to be honest. It's really great to be like, “Here's what I can give you and here's what I can't.” But the real honesty is, “Here's what I feel you can take and here's what I don't think you can. And if I go any farther with you, I'm going to take you someplace that I don't think you're really-“ And then, you listen and you feel she might be, “No, fuck you, man, I'm great.” And you feel the truth of it. You're like, “Okay, baby. All right. Just checking. Great. I'm glad you're still down.” Or, she might say, “No, no, no, I'm good”, but you can really feel that she's not.

Luke Storey:  Right. 

John Wineland:  Or, you give her a chance to be really honest, because you're naming something that she's almost afraid to name. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

John Wineland:  And all of those things I think are important for guys to bring to modern sexual relating, you know, whether it's long term or friends or short term, any of that stuff. Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah, absolutely. And then, there's a point at which I think some of us male-embodied people also, you know, subjectively speaking and also watching friends of mine as they mature, perhaps they get into their late 30s or in my case, you know, early 40s where that proposition just ceased to be interesting anymore. And there's like a desire for greater depth and greater intimacy and not having to have any kind of breaks in terms of allowing love to express itself. 

And I remember it was after a few years of Kundalini yoga, I started having the experience in a couple of relationships, where I was like I was confused, because I started to have these really heart-centered feelings of love for someone that I didn't even know that well and we were just having kind of a casual thing. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? Like I'm catching feelings like many women have, even though I was not intending to do so, you know.

John Wineland:  But that’s not—that's healthy, man. That’s definitely-

Luke Storey:  Well, yeah. I'm like, how do I stop the feeling? 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  No, but it was an interesting—I think I was very love avoidant for a long time, you know, just to be real. I did not want to be vulnerable. I didn't want to be heard. I didn't want to show my feelings. So, I'm just like, cool, there's a wall around me and you can hang out with me, but you're never going to get past a certain point, right? Which is fine. That's one way to live. But it's also very limiting as one wants to have more of a deeper expression, in general, in love in their life. 

So, I found that the tables kind of turned and then, I was the one that kind of started feeling a bit needy and like, well, I want more, this kind of stuff. You know, do you think there's a point at which men arrive where the tables sort of turn energetically and they're no longer kind of able to, for lack of a better term, get away with the more casual flings and stuff, because they're too open and receptive?

John Wineland:  Well, I think they— well, if you're doing a ton of Kundalini for years, you're actually becoming—any practice, any embodied practice, yoga practice, meditative practice that you do is going to make you more open and receptive. Meaning, it's going to activate your feminine, your own feminine, which wants love, which wants connection, which wants devotion, right? And so, there's nothing wrong. It's actually a very healthy sign that you're like, okay, I want to fucking fall in love. I actually think that men need to cultivate their feminine more deeply. And we did this a little bit at the men's workshop. You saw like I had guys work on feminine practice. 

Luke Storey:  Oh, yeah, totally. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. I was like, because, you know, you can't really be—you can't own your masculine if you're rejecting your feminine, right? So, you know, I think men need to do that and then, it's mature, it's healthy. And what is going to happen is that they're going to get hooked, like you talked about, just like a woman who has a feminine essence would get hooked. So, for me, I tend to be of the school that we want every relationship—if we're going to sleep with somebody, if we're going to go deep with somebody, it should break our fucking hearts, like it should, like we should be that in. 

We should be—I'd rather people, you know, have less sex, but the sex that they have be absolutely bone crushing, beautiful, even if there's no monogamy or no commitment, but there has to be a really—there has to be depth. So, I'm of the belief like you should both be in tears and somewhat heartbroken when you part and go different ways. And I think that the masculine responsibility in a relationship is to kind of know when that is, like to be aware of when, “Okay, we've run our course”, or, “If we're going to stay together, this has to happen”, or, “Here's what I feel I need in my life”, and her values are totally different and know that, right? 

So, the masculine value in any relationship, long term, short term is to be able to survey the field of relationship and bring deep consciousness and awareness. So, the truth is honored. Your truth, her truth, the truth of the relationship. And if you've gone all in to that point and then, you bow and end the relationship, there's sadness, there's heartbreak, but there's no dishonoring, you know. You leave like fully given. And I think I'd like to see more of that in relating, you know.

Luke Storey:  We'll be right back at you after this brief, but important announcement. Oh man, I am buzzing to tell you about Beekeeper’s Natural. As you guys know, I've been into bee products for a really long time. And after I recorded and published episode 175 with Carly Stein, I got even more obsessed with bee products. Now, a lot of people think bees just make honey. “Oh, that's nice. It tastes sweet and it comes in that little bare thing.” No, dude, bees make a whole suite of really potent superfoods. They're actually medicines. In many countries, they're considered medicine and I consider them that, too. 

So, you've got your propolis, you've got bee pollen, and of course, the honey and the royal jelly. Now, Beekeeper’s Naturals, which, to me, is the number one most premiere bee product company in the world also make a product called B. Powered, which combines all of those superfoods from the hive into one product, which is just absolutely insane. There's something you need to be aware of though when it comes to bee products is that even if you get, say, like a great honey that tastes delicious and it's labeled organic, it still could be tainted by pesticides like Roundup, it's called glyphosate. 

It's like one of the most gnarly pesticides in the world. Monsanto, you are evil. Shame on you. Why are you putting this stuff all over the planet? Anyway, I digress. Here's the deal though, you can label a bee product organic, but that doesn't mean that your bees from your hive aren't going down the road and like picking up a bunch of glyphosates and bringing it back into your hives. So, you want to only use bee products from a company you can trust. 

And Beekeeper’s Naturals is one such company because not only is their whole process organic and really kind to the environment and to the bees, which is really important, but they test for all contaminants and poisons and pesticides using a third-party verified lab, so you know that you're getting a pure, safe, and very effective product from beekeepersnaturals.com. So, go to beekeepersnaturals.com, use the code Life Stylist and save 15% off your order. And now, back to the interview.

When a relationship is coming to an end, regardless of the level of depth that you've gone with someone, what are some practices and conscious ways to end that? And do not people have—whether they be male or female, have different preferences in terms of how they separate?

John Wineland:  Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, the sad truth, you know, Sofia Diaz, one of my teachers said like, you know, it's fucking amazing just how brutal people get in ending relationships, like from love to brutality in very short periods of time. But if I had my druthers, it would be—there's a recognition that, hey, this is coming to an end. There's an honoring of everything that has happened, right? There's a recognition and appreciation of everybody. And this can be a practice, right? Like you sit down and you spend a day and you just go through all these things, like what I appreciate about what we did together and what you brought me and there's a real honoring and thanking of each other. 

And there's a sharing of regrets, like, I regret that I didn't do more of this or I didn't bring more of this. And, you know, this idea that relationships need to continue forever or you know what I mean, this is somewhat unrealistic. Not always, but somewhat unrealistic for every relationship, every time. And so, what's really important is that you leave each other—in my opinion, you leave each other better than you found each other. And that a recognition of that work together feels like the best way to end it. 

So, I like appreciations, regrets. If there's anything else that needs to be cleared, like, I wish you would have given me more. That tends to be the less important thing, because it just creates more drama. And a real honoring of what your partner brought you. Because chances are, if they're a good person, which you know, I'm assuming most people, you know, are with good people, they did their best. You know, they did their best to love you and they did their best to honor you. And so, having a recognition of that. 

What happens in reality is that shit blows up, I mean, this is the feminine. Like the feminine—the volcano does not ask like, “Can I level this town?” The town's just leveled, right? The tornado doesn't ask like, “Hey, can I just like sweep up this entire farm?” No. The farm just completely destroyed. So, the feminine in all of us, not just women, in men, too, I see this in men a lot, like they'll burn the fucking village down. So, the feminine in us will burn the village down. The masculine in us wants to create a beautiful ending and finding some middle way where, you know, that can happen, I think is really good masculine leadership. 

Luke Storey:  That's really profound. Thank you for that. And I like the identification of the feminine within the man. I think a lot of people—I think I learned this from John Gray, like the two of you, the two Johns, I've learned so much from, but, you know, he talks a lot about the hormones and things like that. And that when men get really emotional, especially if they're in rage, we think of that as like toxic masculinity. 

John Wineland:  Right. Right.

Luke Storey:  But it's actually like toxic femininity, it’s having an estrogen fucking overdose and they're going completely into their feminine when they’re like freaked out, punching walls, violence, that's all feminine, which is so—I was like, “Wait, what?” Because growing up, that was the embodiment of scary men to me that were around in my life and that I was terrified of and traumatized by. And so, I got the message. I'm never going to be like that. So, when I have those feelings, I'm just going to point them inward and do it to myself rather than other people, you know?

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And so, I think it's important for guys to understand, and not that there's a right or wrong with expressing that part of the feminine, but guys aren't being like tough when they're being jerks and negatively, destructively expressing emotions. 

John Wineland:  Right. There's nothing wrong with the emotion. It's the lack of container for the emotion or the lack of consciousness around it. So, if a guy was going to say, “Baby, I'm getting really angry. I need to punch a wall for five minutes. Just, you know, stand back.” That would be okay probably, but losing your shit like so you're bringing in that instance, the guy is bringing his masculine, his awareness, his true masculine, his awareness and his capacity to hold energy to the—to holding his own energy and knowing that it needs to be expressed. 

That is leading, that is using your own sacred masculine to lead your own feminine. And men need to learn how to do that. These days, men need to learn how to work with their own feminine in a very deep way, because when you do that, then she can trust that you can lead her feminine. So, when you're honoring your own feminine by acknowledging it and just being aware of it, “I'm so fucking angry right now, baby. You know, it's not about you. I just need to scream for a moment. Excuse me. I'll be right back.” You turn it and—and then, you come back and okay, better. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  That's trustable. You know, like that's—the capacity to own your own shit is very good masculine leadership. And I just think a lot of guys, you know, there's a lot of men's work being done that is very good at expressing emotion. I think they're missing this point. I think a lot of men's work is missing this point, which is that it's not just about expressing your emotions or revealing your emotions or revealing your pain. That's part of it. But it's also having a way of shepherding your own pain and integrating it into your partnerships and into the world in a way that opens people. And so, that's a missing piece, I think, in relationship and just kind of this masculinity talk.

Luke Storey:  That's really cool. And that obviously requires a certain degree of—a certain perspective of self-awareness through meditation practices and whatnot so that there's an observer witness, you, that I guess we would call that still, you know, never changing masculine energy that's observing, “Oh wow. I just got this feeling. They kind of just hurt my feelings. Now, I want to say this shit to them.” Like you have to have some dominion over your emotional and mental body in order to be able to regulate that and even have that self-awareness. In other words-

John Wineland:  You have to have the nervous system strength and the awareness. Yeah. So, you can make the choice of like, “I'm going to like-“ And look, I certainly lose my shit still. You know, it's like—but I'd say 50% of the time, I have enough awareness to own it, which is much better than it was 10 years ago, right? And so, it's just this thing where, you know, you gently figure it out. The other piece that's super important for men is have other men around you who can see you, who can be the witness for you and be like, “That doesn't feel quite right, man. Like continuing with that woman in that way, it feels like kind of piggy. It's kind of bullshit.” And having men around you, which is why I love men's groups and leading men's programs who can point you to that, that's also crucial. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah. That is the accountability when you have men around that are conscious and courageous enough to be honest with you.

John Wineland:  And aware.

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  Like having aware men around you, that's fucking priceless. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. 

John Wineland:  Like whatever—you know, any dudes listening, make that priority number one, get a bunch of aware dudes around you who are going to call you on your shit. I still have guys from my men's groups and teachers, my men—you know, some two of my three main teachers are men. They're calling me on my shit all the time. And I need it. I need it. Otherwise, I'll drift into my habitual, you know, ego-driven selfishness that I just don't want to bring to the world anymore.

Luke Storey:  In terms of masculine energy, men learning how to have an awareness of their feminine side and their emotions and to develop practices and habits of healthy ways to express that without undermining a relationship. So, I think in terms of the emotion of anger, you contextualize that, how would a man, in a healthy way, express feelings of deep love, empathy, compassion in a way that wouldn't turn off a feminine woman partner? I think men I know and including myself at times have started to venture into the land of like, “Whoa, I'm getting feelings. Let me not shut them down.”

John Wineland:  Right. 

Luke Storey:  You know, in a moment of intimacy, maybe tears might come to your eyes and you're just like, “Holy shit. I'm feeling this immense sense of love and the heart's opening.” And it's a very feminine sensation that I think most men, even though we might be able to access that, we're never going to let our partners see that, because it's so vulnerable. 

John Wineland:  That’s a mistake. That’s a mistake.

Luke Storey:  Okay. Well, let me—I'm going somewhere here with it. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  I know my questions, sometimes, are very meandering and I feel bad for the guests, because like there was 10 questions in there, but they sort of take a narrative, sometimes for me to formulate.

John Wineland:  I got you. I'm with you. 

Luke Storey:  And you know—and also, I want to put things in the most broad perspective, so as many people can relate to it at once, but let's say I'm in a relationship and this has happened to me in the past and, you know, going from being very avoidant and sort of really protecting myself to emerging into this, like, “Wow, I'm actually not going to die if my heartbreaks”, and having the heartbroken a few times and weathering the storm and going, “Cool, I'm going to keep opening it and it's going to keep getting broken. 

And that's just part of life.” But I have experience in relationship, where I'm just having this like emotional expression and maybe tearing up and just nothing's even happening, I'm just looking at my partner going like, “Fuck, I'm just feeling this deep love.” And have had experiences where they've been really threatened or turned off and even kind of shamed me for that, like, “God, you're so feminine”, or like, “You're such a pushover”, and was extremely painful to have that reflected back, because it takes like so much courage to be able to be vulnerable in that way. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah. I won't put up with it. 

Luke Storey:  So, men, I think like many like me just don't go there, because we're like, “I'm not going to like chance-opening that portal and have someone put a fucking dagger in it”, you know? Or at least, that's what it feels like, whether that's their intention or not. So, what's—like as a man, how do you know, not only—as you said, how to kind of put a container around anger, but what about just joy, bliss, love, open-heartedness in a way that's productive to the relationship and be well-received?

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah. I think I get where you're going and I do see—I think that it's not the love, the joy, the bliss, the ecstasy that we're feeling when we're in love, right? Our own feminine. It's the structure of our bodies. So, our bodies need to maintain a certain level of structure. So, our front of our bodies needs to be open and soft. Our spines need to be strong. We need to be grounded. And if we're all those things and tears are streaming down our face, so they need to feel the structure, our physical structure and structures both physical and aware. 

So, our awareness of our own emotion and our physical structure. And normally, in very few sentences, so where guys get—where women start to get turned off as the guys like get into it. And then, you know, “When I was in—my mother did this”, and, you know, we attach it to a whole story of our life. They get lost there. But if we just came and said, “I just fucking love you.” Just like, “You're breaking my heart. You're so beautiful.” Like, “I'm just in awe of you.” Like, “Never leave me. I just fucking-“ Like, “I'm yours.” And if we can say it in two, three sentences, it's usually very, very impactful for women. 

It's when we lose our physical structure or our awareness structure or we start meandering into giving too much story around our feelings, because we're scared. And so, when we get scared, we'll like add a bunch of shit to it, but that the basic, hold the structure, reveal the truest emotion is almost tried and true with good women. Now, if you do that and you bring that to a good—to a woman and she shames you for it, do not take that, like, “Wait a minute. I just revealed the depth of my heart to you and you're shaming me? Fuck you.” Like, “That is not okay. I'm not cool with that. If you ever do that again, I'm out”, period. Three or four sentences. 

Luke Storey:  Well, that's a simple solution.

John Wineland:  Yeah. Because if you do it right, Luke, and if you really give your heart and you’re breathing and you’re open in your body and she responds like that, do you want to be with a woman like that? No. Fuck that. You just took the most courageous step as a man, like you just said, revealing your heart and if somebody shames you or stabs you like that, then no. Now, if she's pointing out you lost consciousness in your body or you talked about a feeling for 30 minutes or you know what I mean? She's pointing that out. That's different. That's different. 

That's her pointing out that you lost consciousness, right? And I think men have to be aware enough in their own, she's pointing out like, “I know you wanted to tell me something that was emotional and vulnerable, but then, you went into this thing or you like got kind of freaky with your body or I could feel all kinds of closure”, her giving you that information is very helpful, because she'll get repulsed and you'll be like, “Wait a minute, I'm just sharing something. What was repulsive?” Guys don't want to actually go into that. Like, “What repelled you?” 

And she'll be like, “Well, you just become too nervous”, or, “you stopped breathing”, or, “you did the things that mean your structure went to shit.” So, that's very helpful for a woman to point out to you when you're in this emotion. But if you've done the work, like I know you have, to train your nervous system, to be with your own deep emotion and you just deliver it as a gift, as a transmission of love, and they reject that, question that woman's, you know, depth and be really clear that you won't tolerate shaming of your heart. That would be my recommendation to men. 

Luke Storey:  Sage. I love it. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Because I think we're at a time now when—not just myself, there’s so many—these interviews end up being like personal consultations and I think that's what gives them value, because there is a lot of vulnerability in that.

John Wineland:  Yeah. Sure.

Luke Storey:  So, I try to speak for all men, but it's hard to take my self-centered self out of it, you know? 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  But I know a lot¬-

John Wineland:  But you're a good reflection of what a lot of dudes are going through. 

Luke Storey:  Well, I hope so. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And I do keep my friends in mind, you know. Most of my close friends are in relationships right now, I'm not. And I observe we all go through kind of the same cyclical experiences, you know. I think there's kind of that high of mind where you have a kind of soul tribe and you're going through perhaps many incarnations, but at least this one. And you're kind of all learning the lessons around the same time. Like me and all the homies, you know, they're all considerably younger than me. 

I must be a late bloomer, but, you know, like my five maybe close friends, like we're all single, just having fun. And then, one guy, you know, locked one in, the next and next, and we all kind of were in relationships at the same time and all going like, “Wow, we know how to like play the field, but we don't know how to do this intimacy thing.” And so, we're reading books, we're listening to John Wineland or, you know, a podcast about like, “Okay, how do you do this?” 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Because the old paradigm of being stoic and just never showing your feelings and not being available for true intimacy and vulnerability is unsatisfactory, you know? It's just like there's a sweetness there and a richness there, but I think for many of us, it's difficult to find that balance. And if we do happen to kind of step over the line into our feminine and then, get shut down, abandoned, rejected, hurt, whatever, whether it's intentional or not, obviously, then it's like, “Oh cool, I'm going back into my shell and I'm never coming out, because I don't want that shit to happen again.” So-

John Wineland:  Yeah, it takes courage, man. It takes courage and it takes balls, quite frankly, to go to give your heart to a woman fully, takes balls. And just know you're going to do it. And sometimes, it'll be clunky and sometimes, you'll get it crushed, but in the end, it will magnetize a deeper, more devotional woman like we can't, as men, expect women to be devotional to us if we're withholding our hearts. We can't expect her to be devotional to our hearts if we're not willing to be devotional to our own hearts. 

All right. So, part of good masculine practice is to get clear, like, okay, what's the truth of my heart? Truth of my heart is I fucking love you. I'd never want to be apart. And to say that with no closure, a great scene. There are three scenes I use to teach men about, like claiming a woman fully, right? One is the last scene from Pride and Prejudice where he's walking through the marsh and he like delivers this like incredibly vulnerable admission to her while being completely open, like he's tearing up and he's just saying, “I love you. I never want to be apart from you.” And it's in a way that's so beautiful. 

The second one is, the end of season two from Girls when Adam Driver like runs watching FaceTime to save her from some OCD moment that she's having and he kicks in the door and this kind of thing. And then, the third is the moment from Game of Thrones where Khal Drogo is like saying, “I'm going to sail across the ocean and take the throne for you.” So, those are three ways that men can, you know, claim a woman's heart fully open. And I think there's a lot to be said for those. I often use movies, because I think that they capture these moments that men can dilate and really go into. So, yeah, it's, it's hard to—I think men are uncertain about what to bring to the modern, powerful woman. 

Luke Storey:  You got that right.

John Wineland:  Yeah. And-

Luke Storey:  So very confusing—I mean, now, there's—not just what I said before of like us learning that we don't have to be tough. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  We can show our feelings, like that whole thing.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Now, it's also there, because of so many of the abuses of men and the pendulum of sensitivities swinging so far in the other direction with the Me Too movement and all this. I know that many of us are like, “Am I supposed to hug people now?” I mean, it's like you really want to be careful. So, there's that element of confusion also. It's a very strange time. 

John Wineland:  It is a strange time for men. And, you know, I think the answer and unfortunately, most men don't want to do this work, but it's really important work to do, which is become so fucking sensitive, so aware that you know yourself and the field that you're in very intimately. So, that requires ninja-like training of your nervous system and body to really know when a woman is a yes or a no. Now, because they won't say no. Most women, still, I see this in workshops all the time. I say, “Look, put up your hand if you're a no, put up your hand if you're a no. 

And they won't. And they'll say, “He did something and I didn't like it.” And I was like, “Dude, why didn't you put up your hand?” Like I just did—and it happens all—even if I give them permission and I have them demo it, they still won't say no. And it's so hard for women to say no. So, it means that men have to be really aware. Is that a no, is that a yes? Like is she getting tense? Is she opening? And learning awareness is the number one skill I would—like full-body awareness is the number one skill I would offer men. So, Kundalini yoga is a great way to do it. Qigong is a great way to do it. I use both to teach men all kinds of embodiment work so that you become more open and aware and you'll know like how to navigate the modern woman, right? But it takes time. It's a challenge. 

Luke Storey:  Well, I like the work that you're doing in your workshops, how you integrate all those physical practices. Because I think, I'm sure this is true of women as well, obviously, I just don't know what their experience is, but for me, I mean, just like watching the way that you sit. You know, you always sit with a very open posture. And in your workshops, you encourage all the men to sit that way. And I mean, these are kind of body language things I've picked up over the years also and have tried to integrate them, but never contextualizing them as holding this container and using my physiology and nervous system in order to build a deeper level of awareness and perception. It's sort of just like, I want to be open minded and receptive, so I'm going to set like this rather than like sitting like this, you know? 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  It's common sense. But I have found in moments of conflict, which I find to be very challenging, growing up around a lot of drama and violence and pain, you know, I don't like conflict. And so, my fight or flight response is more freeze. I'm just like, don't talk, don't move. Hope the bear keeps going. 

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  That kind of thing. But the physical posturing and stuff that you teach is so powerful, because you're able to really withstand a lot more of that if you're using your body where you're not shutting down and not protecting yourself. It's just like an open strength. That's really—it's hard to describe, but you obviously know what I mean.

John Wineland:  I do, yeah.

Luke Storey:  What are some other ways that men and women can strengthen the nervous system in order to have the capacity to handle uncomfortable emotions and even confrontation and conflict and sometimes, very raw communication that needs to happen in order to facilitate a solution. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Well, breath is the first thing. That's one thing I always teach as well. Yeah, that’s just taking a-

Luke Storey:  I forgot about that. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Breath. Breath is super important, because your nervous system, you know, you stop—the first thing you do in fight or flight or freeze is your breath stops. So, if you want to—so, breathing, I've been doing a lot of martial arts the last couple of years since I think we last spoke. And I've been doing a lot of Kung Fu and sticky hands, right? One of the things I love about sticky hands is that the idea in sticky hands is to stay center line to your opponent, right? So, you stay center to center and then, you move in and you feel, react. 

So, you're constantly like touching them. Like you want to be touching them. This is kind of—you know, Bruce Lee brought this to the US. And you want to be touching them and then, you react, feel, react. So, in a fight with a feminine partner, I'm just talking to the men now, moving forward—and you constantly move forward. If you stop moving forward, you're going to lose. So, you're constantly moving forward. So, breathing, feeling, reacting, moving forward. These are things—and staying connected to the earth. 

These are things that if men can do—so, moving forward in a fight with a woman means tussling. Like she comes at you with—and then, you have some move that actually takes that—takes that energy and transmutes it into something playful or loving. “So, why didn't you put the toilet seat down?” And then, you like move closer to her and pull her near you and say, “I love it when you tell me what to do”, right? That's like a move. 

Luke Storey:  Right.

John Wineland:  You know? 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah.

John Wineland:  It's like a tussle, right? 

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  So, “I love it when you talk to me like that. Talk dirty to me”, right? Something, whatever. You know, everybody's got their own move. But there's a thing where you're moving forward, moving forward and most guys, when their women come at them like that, they kind of either freeze or move back or attack. There's not like this kind of tussling, playful, what my teacher David Deida calls flowery combat. And learning that, I think—No, no, I'm making it sound easy. It's not. 

Like dudes need to kind of do all kinds of training and this is why I have a job. But that's the skill set that's needed moving forward with where women are at, both in their level of, you know, powerful—their own powerful masculine that they've cultivated over the last 40 years, their deep level of mistrust of men and the masculine, because of, you know, tens of thousands of years of abuse and the ache in their heart of not being met, because men have just got—for the last 20, 30 years, have got more consistently numb and checked out. 

And all those three things are hitting women and making them feel almost desperate, you know, for like, “Oh fuck, what am I going to do? Look at them. The men are doing this”, or, “They're doing that. They can't hold their emotion. They're numb. They’re-“ And I see women all the time, like really want to give their hearts, but feel really scared to do so, because they don't trust men. You know, they don't trust men's capacities. And that's kind of rightly so.

Luke Storey:  We'll be right back at you after this brief, but important announcement. When I first found the product made by today's sponsor, Comrad socks, I was so stoked, because I love wearing compression socks when I travel. And now, actually, just when I'm living in my life, walking around, because I didn't realize how awesome they feel all the time. But I also kind of had my own fashion sense. You know, I worked in the fashion industry for a long time and I liked to wear me some colorful, well-designed socks. 

So, when I found out there was a company that merged both of those things, meaning, some like medical-grade socks that don't look medical, they look fashionable and help with the swelling and all the discomfort associated with being a human and having feet on the bottom of your body, I was super pumped. So, if you want to check these out, here's what you do. Get over to comradsocks.com/luke. That's C-O-M-R-A-D socks, comradsocks.com/luke. These are great for preventing swelling, so you're more comfortable when you travel, sitting or standing for long periods, speeding up muscle recovery after workouts. 

And they come in a range of colors and styles that are actually dope-looking. No one will even know you've got scientifically designed compression socks on under there. If you've got more circulation, you have more energized legs, less pain and swelling, so you're just living that good life. And they also use something called Smart Silver antimicrobial technology, which prevents odor-causing bacteria, so your feet don't smell stank, which is a huge plus. So, get over to comradsocks.com/luke. That's comradsocks.com/luke. Enter the code, Luke, and checkout and save 20%. And now, back to the interview.

I hear a common complaint from women that men are, you know, as you say, now, I think I've heard the term emotionally unavailable. And there are, of course, you know, patterns that develop in childhood, where I mean, certain women pick unavailable men, because their dad was on—you know, the whole thing, which you can learn about in therapy. But hopefully—and then, you know, we have our own thing, too. Perhaps, mother was a bit overbearing. 

So, you know, as a male, you're more avoidant and you're like, “Oh, I don't want to get trapped under the pressure of a woman's emotions or attachment or whatever”, right? But I have also witnessed, again, like myself and friends in that kind of sloppy stumbling into being emotionally unavailable and not having the wisdom to know how to deliver that in a way that's not overwhelming or a turnoff to a woman.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  So, I think that goes back to that confusion. It's like, okay, so, women, you guys are saying you want us to be more vulnerable, open, emotionally available, but when we are, you don't know what to do with that, you know? 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And so, it seems like there is a lot of finessing of this and-

John Wineland:  It's art. 

Luke Storey:  Right.

John Wineland:  It’s art. And I think that most people—same for women, right? Same for women. When we're talking to women, like their capacity to reveal the yearning of their heart or the truth of their heart, it's an art. It's an artful practice to be able to do that. So, yeah, it takes massive amounts of refinement for both men and women to really—you know, this is a human issue, right? Not masculine or feminine of revealing the truth of your heart in a way that occurs as a gift to your partner. That takes art and it takes yoga practice. It takes nervous system training. And it's something that most human beings are not up for. You know, because it requires a commitment, requires intentionality, requires practice. Like, you know, you know me, man, I'm—people should be practicing 30 minutes to an hour a day of opening their body, deepening their breath, connecting to their core feminine, or masculine essence. 

Luke Storey:  Oh. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  That's what I wanted to ask you. You know, I have my notes printed out, but then, talking to someone like you, like I don't—like the notes go away, because this is a way of meandering and you're a great communicator, but I did want to ask—wait, what was that last thing you said? Because then, I looked at my notes and I forgot-

John Wineland:  Like connecting to your masculine or feminine core.

Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Then, your core, because I remember this in your men's group we did up in Shasta, which was freaking fantastic. And I just want to say, I mean, men and I've been to the mixed ones, too. And I'm not just plugging this because you're sitting here, I always tell man like, “Dude, you got to go to John's things, like it is a game changer.”

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  But you talked about how you personally have a masculine core, but your emotional body is feminine.

John Wineland:  Yeah. Sure.

Luke Storey:  And you went into a little bit of that. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  It was very helpful to me, because in relationship, I am miserable unless I'm in the masculine role in the relationship, like it's just not happening. It's not going to last. 

John Wineland:  Right. Right.

Luke Storey:  I just can't be with someone who wants to be the leader, be in charge, be controlling. Like I just—I'm controlling and I love it. 

John Wineland:  I'm with you, man. I’m with you. Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  But I'm also super alpha and I don't think my way through life, I feel my way through life, you know? I'm just super intuitive, high empathy. And so, it's a bit of a war inside. So, what do you mean by like someone's core and then, their emotional body? What are the different aspects of us as humans that are sort of managed by those different emotional centers? 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Well, this is a very deep question. There's a lot of layers to that. So, I'll give you just, you know, the two-minute version of that. Most men have a masculine core, meaning that they would prefer less to more most of the time. They would prefer to lead, like you talked about in a relationship. They would for to penetrate and facilitate the surrender of their lover. They would prefer to have those things most of the time. Not all the time, but 70%, 80% of the time. That's the role they want to play in the relationship if they have a masculine core.

Luke Storey:  Does that include not wanting to be told how to drive? 

John Wineland:  Of course, yeah. Like, you know, it's kind of common that you want to be the direction. 

Luke Storey:  Okay.

John Wineland:  So, if you have a masculine core, you want to be the direction, the clarity, and the consciousness of the relationship. You want her or him, doesn't matter, to be the energy, the love, the flow of the relationship most of the time. Not all the time, but most of the time. So, that's how you know you have a masculine core sexually and relationally.

Also, you know, you have a masculine core spiritually if resting into—if relaxing into the consciousness of nothingness or the emptiness feels good. 

Luke Storey:  There's nothing better than that. 

John Wineland:  Exactly. So, that's how you know. It feel—you feel like—if you feel like you're sitting in nothing and all of a sudden, you’re just like, you're sitting in nature, in the woods and you're just opening into the emptiness of the beauty around you and that feels like bliss, masculine core, that's how you know.

Luke Storey:  So, three hours in a float tank is your favorite thing?

John Wineland:  Yeah. There you go.

Luke Storey:  Okay. Perfect. Good. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Okay. So, I’m-

John Wineland:  So, you've got a masculine core.

Luke Storey:  Got that.

John Wineland:  But you have a feminine emotional body, too. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. I sensed that-

John Wineland:  Just like me. Yeah, just like me.

Luke Storey:  I mean, just moments ago, I'm like tearing up. I mean, my emotions are always so accessible.

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah. Which is great, right? As long as you're conscious of it, right? So, those of us who learned intuitively, you know, whose emotional bodies maybe—you know, for me, I was raised by all women. So, literally, five women, an aunt, a great aunt, you know, grandmother, mother, you know, but it's just like—so, I was raised by all women and three sisters. Four sisters if you include my stepsister. So, I learned about the emotional body, the feminine body, and it just kind of, you know, just the way that I was raised. 

So, I have a feminine emotional body. Now, it's beautiful, because I can feel shit, right? You're very intuitive too, right? So, I can feel it. I can cultivate it. If I'm judging it, like a lot of guys will, like I know a lot of guys who have them feminine emotional bodies who will judge it or make themselves wrong. That doesn't work. So, what you do is you like get busy accepting who you truly are, wow. Like I'm a dude with a masculine core, a masculine sexual essence, masculine relationship to my body, but my emotions are highly feminine. 

Like I'm sensitive. I'm intuitive. I care a lot. I'm an empath. You know, those are great. Right? And so, now, it's just about your masculine recognizing your own feminine in terms of your emotional bodies and the flow of emotion, which can get quite volatile sometimes and creating space and practice and communication techniques. So, I will say to my partner, “I just feel fucking needy. Like wow, I just—I'm so needy tonight. Like, I just need you to-“

Luke Storey:  Oh my God. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  I would be so afraid to verbalize that, dude. I don't think I could ever say that. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. No.

Luke Storey:  I feel that sometimes, you know, like there's distance and I'm like, I need to know we're cool. I need that connection back, you know. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. No, no. And that's part of—that's because I've done the work. 

Luke Storey:  Right.

John Wineland:  I've done the deep inner work to get right with my own truth, my own emotional body. So, I think that's a big piece of men's work that, again, it doesn't necessarily get taught in the traditional men's practice, right? We'll face our emotions, we'll get good at it. But learning to face your emotions and then, learning to communicate them to the world and express them through the body and through words, that's all yoga. That's a yoga that people, you know, in my opinion, need to learn, men especially these days. Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  I would assume, and this might be an incorrect assumption, that someone like you or I that has a very strong emotional body might be best suited to be with someone, you know, whatever their gender happens to be—obviously, your work is, I would say, pretty gender-neutral, because it's about energy, masculine, feminine energy. I get accused of being too heteronormative every once in a while, on my show. I'm like, that's what I am. Like, how can I not have that perspective, you know?

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah.

Luke Storey:  I've only lived this way for 49 years. But it seems as though you might have to be with someone who has an even more prominent or dominant emotional body themselves. In other words, like if you're wanting to be the masculine energy in a relationship, you probably can't be kind of more feminine emotionally than the other. 

John Wineland:  Yes, you can. Yes, you can.

Luke Storey:  How do you do that?

John Wineland:  You just be aware and you warn them. 

Luke Storey:  Okay.

John Wineland:  Now, with a feminine emotional body, a man, a masculine being with a feminine emotional body like me, I need somebody who has capacity to hold space. 

Luke Storey:  Got it. 

John Wineland:  I need somebody who has, if I asked her to, she could step into her masculine. And my partner's good at this. She can step into her masculine. And actually, if I give her warning, “I'm like, baby, here it comes. Like I'm just a fucking hot mess.” I'll say that, “I'm a hot mess, you got to take care of me. I'm just-“ Because I get that way after I teach for a long period of time. So, I'll warn her and then, she has to have the capacity to step into her own sacred masculine and hold space for me for a few minutes. If it's not the whole relationship or it's not forever, if it's just an evening or an hour or a few minutes, most women are totally game for that. 

And I teach women in women's groups to do that. Like I teach women to cultivate their own sacred masculine so that they can hold, you know, the feminine responsiveness that they want from their men, like you said. They've got to cultivate their own sacred masculine, women do, to hold space for that if they want it. You know, if they want a guy who's got no emotion that's just totally shut down emotionally. Great. They don't have to worry about that. But most guys in modern—relating now have more emotional capacity than they did 20 years ago. So, women have to have more capacity to hold that, their man's feminine. 

Luke Storey:  That's cool. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  So, it sounds like we're—it doesn't sound like we are evolving.

John Wineland:  Totally.

Luke Storey:  Right?

John Wineland:  Totally.

Luke Storey:  Especially those of us that are into doing the work on ourselves and becoming more conscious, it's not an either or, black or white duality of like, “I'm the masculine one, you’re the feminine one.” There really is a dance then in a dynamic, healthy relationship, where each partner hopefully has enough self-awareness about what makes them tick and can find a way to integrate and communicate. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  That's interesting. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  That's cool. 

John Wineland:  It's a total evolution there.

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  And I think we're—like I said yesterday and during my session here, it's like we're at a unique time in history where we're cultivating these things and we get to choose the kind of relating that we want, because we're not required for security or protection or propagation of the species to be together anymore. So, we get to choose like, “Oh, I want to-“ We get to actually—we’re in a moment where we get to choose relationships and create relationships that honor the truth of who we are. So, it's a really exciting time, in my opinion. 

Luke Storey:  And what if one finds themselves in a relationship where they feel like they can't express the truth of who they are? Does that mean they're in the wrong relationship or does that mean they're just not having the courage to show up? 

John Wineland:  Normally, it's the latter. Normally, it's the latter. Normally, it's either a refinement of skills question, like it's not that the truth of their heart can't be accepted by their partner, but the way they're delivering it needs to be refined and more artistically created. Most of the time, people aren't certain about staying in relationships, not because of the other person, but because of themselves, because they haven't—they know somewhere in their hearts they haven't fully given it their all. They haven't fully revealed their truth. They haven't fully owned what they need to own. They haven't fully developed a skillset that will serve the relationship. They haven't fully honored their terms in the relationship. 

And they have to do all that first for a period of time, two months, three months, six months, and really give their partner, you know—I'm assuming this is like a longer-term commitment, right? Really give their partner a chance to step up. So, I think those are the main issues, like your skill sets, which is, you know, what I'm all about. Your skill sets, your awareness and then, go all in, like, you know, give your fucking heart at the altar, like be that committed that you're going to just give it your all. And then, in six months, if they're still not getting you, then you're like, “Okay, I tried, baby”, you know. 

Luke Storey:  Right. 

John Wineland:  I'm going to move on to somebody who's more suited for my gifts. 

Luke Storey:  Right. Because there's someone for everyone. 

John Wineland:  Totally. 

Luke Storey:  Right?

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah. Multiple people, I think, over the course of a lifetime. 

Luke Storey:  Right. 

John Wineland:  But yeah.

Luke Storey:  It seems that way.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  We have this idealistic, some of us, view. I mean, for me, I just hate dating and I hate breaking up, you know. It sounds like that’s kind of find the one person and this is like our path and then, we die on the same day, you know. Hopefully, like we're 99, we both just-

John Wineland:  We go sitting and see, all that shit.

Luke Storey:  Yeah. We just die in our sleep and, you know, never have to suffer the loss of an attachment or, you know, a sense of abandonment. In terms of the container, this is something I really wanted to cover with you. If the masculine role in the relationship is to create a container, a safe space for the storm that is the feminine, you know, the fluid emotions, the constant change, never the same. 

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  And then, the masculine is the same. And it hearkens back to an experience I had on ayahuasca in Costa Rica. And it was like ladies’ night and all the shaman were female. And it was just completely intoxicating feminine energy in the space, the music, the dancing. I mean, it was just like, oh, my God. I'm like in the belly of the feminine beast, so to speak. And I went outside and I was looking at this amazing fire pit and I had the realization that that fire is the feminine, you know—because I would try to grab—I mean, I was high on ayahuasca, you know.

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Luke Storey:  But I tried to grab the fire like there it is, no, it's not. It's gone. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And then, the container is there, getting burned, charred, it doesn't move. And I was like, oh, that's great. And then, I looked at the moon and the moon was illuminated by the sun. I was like, oh, the moon wouldn't even be visible without the sun giving it its energy and its light and the moon is just there receiving, receiving. So, it was this amazing moment of that. And so, I was like, well, okay, I get that in nature. How do I integrate that? And I think for men at times, it's challenging to tell when you're just holding space and you have to have a nervous system and learn how to breathe and accept the fluidity and the, you know, emotional unpredictability of a partner. And when it's just like unacceptable, like, you know, when you draw the line of like, this person just, you know, has issues that they haven't dealt with and it's not my responsibility to handle them or to hurt them. 

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  That's their shit. They need to go deal with, because they're too reactive or angry or they shut down or whatever it is.

John Wineland:  Right. 

Luke Storey:  Like how do you determine how much space to hold and where to draw the line. 

John Wineland:  Well, I think I've answered these at different times during this interview, right? But basically, there's a—first place is that you bring your sacred masculine, your capacity for awareness, your nervous system strength, your physical strength, which includes your nervous system strength. I'm talking about muscle. I'm talking about like capacity to hold to be in your own emotional body and the emotional bodies of others, right? Your breath work, all of that work that you know about, you cultivate that enough so that you can hold your own feminine first. Your own feminine first. So, where most men, I think, make mistakes in this work is they're like, “Okay, I'm just going to be stoic and hold the feminine for her. I'm dying inside”, right? 

Whereas the real thing to do is to cultivate your own, like she might be storming or raging or calling you something, you're breathing deep, you're grounded into the earth, tears might be streaming down your face, because your heart is breaking. And you look into her eyes and you say, “Ouch, baby. Ouch. Fuck. That hurts.” That's it. You reveal the truth of your own heart while maintaining meticulous structure, while maintaining an awareness of your heart, her heart, the relationships, you know, health and energy. And so, you know, masculine awareness needs to be—needs to pervade the entire relationship, your body, her body, her heart, your heart, all of it. 

Then, you can feel—once that's happened, then you can feel like, okay, like I said, if you're bringing your open true heart to her with meticulous structure and vulnerability and depth, and she rejects that consistently, then you say—or she brings her own neurosis or unprocessed stuff to you consistently and you’re responding with depth and practice and the best you've got to offer, then it's—after a few months of trying your best, like really trying your best, trying to, you know, change your skill set, trying to change how aware you are of your own stuff, try to own your own shit. Then, after that, you can bow and say, “Look, baby, I've given you my best. You know, it feels like somebody, another man would probably serve you better.” I'm talking to men right now, but the same thing applies to women. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah, me too. Well, that's—I asked the question, because I think, you know, men hear work like yours and they think, okay, I just got to like be that—I can be that—you know, be those bricks and let the fire be the fire. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  But at some point, you know, you're getting burned, you know,.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And so, me and other guys are-

John Wineland:  But the bricks get the—if you look at the bricks the next day when the fire's done, they're scarred. 

Luke Storey:  They are. 

John Wineland:  They're scarred. So are the rocks, right? They're scarred. So, if you're going to get into the—you know, if you look at, you know, the Grand Canyon, it's getting eroded. It's getting killed. The skin's getting pulled off of it, right? So, you know, if we're going to step into the ring, we're going to get scarred. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's actually factually beautiful and sexy. And I just think that men's capacity to—it's a common mistake that you touched on, which is the men will think I have to hold the space for all of the feminine storm. No. What you need to do is you need to determine how much space is reasonable and then, lay your ground rules there. 

Like she does not want to rage on you for hours at a time. She might do it, because she's in her completely unhealed feminine. So, part of creating a container is for you to say, “Enough.” Like, “I've heard you. I apologized. I gave you my truth. I heard your truth. Enough. That's it. No more.” That's a container. That's a container. So, men think that part of what men have to learn is to have—now that takes nervous system strength to do that in a way that she will—that will actually relax her, you know. Maybe, you put your hands on her shoulders and you go, “Enough, baby. That's it. I heard you.” That's what she wants. She does not want to be a volcano for an hour and completely level the village. She feels like shit when she does that.

Luke Storey:  I love that analogy. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah.

Luke Storey:  That's funny.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Right. Because, you know, we know as men, when we level the village, it's not long after that you're like, oh, God, I wish I could take back that thing I said. You know, you said that one thing that was just over the line of being hurtful and not just expressing your feelings, but you're like, ah, you know, you throw a dig in there and you're like, ah. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Your value to her is to know when it's enough. That's part of your masculine value. 

Luke Storey:  What are some tools women can use? Well, anyone that has a desire to maintain more of the feminine role in a relationship, to bring themselves back into that optimal position for polarity. Meaning, you know, say, woman, CEO, girl boss, lawyer, but doesn't want to come home and be boss to her man. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. A lot of women are like that. 

Luke Storey:  What are some ways that she can reintegrate and go, “Oh, yeah, let me like have the awareness to kind of switch over and have the dynamic that I so desire”? 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Two things I'll give that are relatively easy. One is develop a pleasure practice, like literally develop a practice of honoring pleasure in your body daily. Could be a certain kind of masturbation practice or movement practice or just kind of like the women in my women's groups, they'll do—we teach them a pleasure practice to do every day. That's just honoring their body and cultivating and amplifying the pleasure in their body. Because most women, when they are CEO, girl boss, they might enjoy it, but that doesn't create a lot of pleasure in their bodies. 

So, to switch from that, they've got to move from their own sort of holding space, kind of, you know, more tank like to getting home and being more like bamboo or, you know, like flowing water or, you know, that kind of thing. So, that would be the first, develop a pleasure practice. And the second would be find modalities of movement and physical practice that cultivate the expression of love through your body. So, sacred dance is one. Hula is one, like even twerking, you know, like just cultivate the movement of energy and love.

Luke Storey:  Picturing the twerk.

John Wineland:  Yeah, me too. So, cultivate the movement of energy and love through your body. And if you just do those two things, you will be more in your feminine and your partner will thank you.

Luke Storey:  That's cool. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  Sage advice. I like that it. It brings me back to one of the exercises we did in your last men's group that was—there's all—I mean, you really put—I don't know how it is for women, of course, but like for us guys, that shit is hard. There are some things you have us do that are just—that are more defined. But I think because I've been practicing the art of surrender and just willingness for so long now that some of the things that I saw the other guys freaking out when you had to like, I don’t know, like embody your shadow. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  So, we did that exercise, you were embodying your shadow.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And I'm like, oh, my God, really, John? Like, this is so whack. And then, I'm just like, I'm all in and I'm on the ground, you know? 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And the homies I was doing mine with were like, “Damn, are you an actor?” I'm like, “No. I'm just—if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it”, right? So, some of the things that were really hard for the other men, I just—I managed to summon the wherewithal to do, but the one that was the most hard for me, which other guys seem to kind of get into was when we had to embody the—well, you invited us. We didn't have to do anything to embody the feminine and really move our body and kind of an aesthetic dance, in this free form dance. And I'm not someone who's ever really expressed myself through dancing. I used to play music and, you know, I'm like, if I have an instrument, I’ll groove around.

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  But I'm like jazz hands, what do I do with the hands? 

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  There was no bass, you know? 

John Wineland:  Right. Right. 

Luke Storey:  But when we did that, it was interesting, because there was this self-consciousness, I look stupid, you know, the guys are going to be judging me.

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  All that kind of stuff. And then, there was a threshold that I passed and I kind of clicked into it and it then got out of my head finally.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And I still felt like a total wuss, but I did kind of like get a glimpse of like, Oh, this is that thing where it's constantly shifting and changing and moving, and there's no logical order of anything. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  There's no plan, there's no strategy, there's no tactic. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  You're just embodying energy and moving it around. And I thought that was a profound practice to give me the experience of what it might be like on the other side. And it did actually increase the level, I think, of compassion and understanding-

John Wineland:  Well, it’s one of those practices that it's about pleasure, right? So, it's like, okay, only move in a way—like men can do this and they need to do this, right? Because we're like—you know, we're kind of linear, so linear, right? 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah.

John Wineland:  So, you need to move as pleasure. And one of the great things about a practice like that is that that cultivates sensitivity. So, we've been talking, you know, all interview about the sensitivity that needs to be cultivated and being able to move and flow and let your body kind of ask for the next movement and let it be nonlinear and let it be all about feeling good. That's a great practice for men and it cultivates a really wide swath of sensitivity that I think—that we've been talking about for the last hour about what men need. So, that's why I have guys do it, because, A, they need to feel good, right? You need to feel good in your body. And B, you need to cultivate sensitivity. So, yeah. Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  Yeah. That was-

John Wineland:  You’re not the first dude to go like- 

Luke Storey:  It was so mortifying, but still beneficial. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Not something I would voluntarily engage in on a regular basis, but it was like, oh, cool, that was a nice glimpse into that world. Let me get back to like being cool. 

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Another exercise that I thought was really profound, and this was in your art of fearless intimacy, mixed workshop that was in Santa Monica a couple of years ago, and it was at a perfect time in my life, because I was in a period of celibacy and not dating. It was really just going inward and doing some work. And so, I went as a single guy, and as you know, what I'll tell the audience, there'll be a number of single guys and single women and then, a lot of couples. And I remember walking in kind of being like, well, this is pathetic. 

You're like, you're here a solo, dude. Like, seriously? It's like the high school dance, standing on the wall, waiting, you know, to find someone to dance with kind of thing. But then, you'd partner us up with these different women and it was really powerful, because I got to work with so many different souls and female bodies. Just when I'd kind of get comfortable with one doing one of these intimacy exercises, you'd be like, “Okay, switch, next lady.” I'm like, ah, God, I just was like feeling okay with this one. 

John Wineland:  Right.

Luke Storey:  But there were so many exercises that were powerful, but two of them that were just extremely transformative. One of them was an eye gazing exercise where you would either bring, I think it was warrior or-

John Wineland:  Lover.

Luke Storey:  Was it lover? 

John Wineland:  Warrior, lover.

Luke Storey:  Warrior or lover.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  And so, those listening, there's no movement of your body. You're just standing face-to-face with your female partner. And you have to express without moving, saying anything, doing really any facial expressions, just energetically a high degree of warrior or lover. And then, you get feedback from your intuitive female partner as to what they want more. 

John Wineland:  Right. Right. 

Luke Storey:  So, if you're like bringing too much lever, they're like, “Ew, more warrior.” And too much warrior, they kind of get scared looking and they're like, “Yeah, more lover.” 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  And that was the first time I ever think that I consciously was able to hit a sweet spot.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  The right note just for seconds at a time, where they're like, “That right there.”

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  I'm like, Luke, remember this shit. This is what you got to bring, right here. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  What's up with that exercise? 

John Wineland:  Yeah. You know, it's about installing in your nervous system that perfect blend of your fierceness and your love. Fierceness, warrior, lover, you know, heart lover. So, it's about finding the capacity to bring fierce love, which the feminine craves. Like she can't actually surrender deeply unless she feels both the part of you that loves her and is devotional and the part that would kill someone who wanted to hurt her. And by extension, kill her unconsciousness or kill for love or ravish her. Like the perfect blend of lover and warrior is the part that ravishes her heart. And so, men don't—like we talked about at the beginning, we weren't taught—no one taught us in high school like, you know, “Bring the perfect blend of warrior-

Luke Storey:  Yeah.

John Wineland:  Yeah. You know, they'll throw their panties at you. No, it's like it was, you know—so, we have to install this in our nervous system, so we can bring it into our love and to our sex.

Luke Storey:  Yeah, a beautiful practice and one that I think is one of the most lasting, because there were moments, as I said, where I hit that note and I was like, remember this, Luke. And I have been able to achieve that since, you know.

John Wineland:  Yeah.

Luke Storey:  There's some kind of muscle memory in there that goes, yeah, that's the sweet middle point of that energetic balance. So, thank you for that and everything else. 

John Wineland:  Yeah, man. 

Luke Storey:  As we come to a close, I've asked you this, I guess, two times before, so I don't know what your answer will be today, but you've taught me and so many people listening so much today, who've been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your work that people might be able to go investigate?

John Wineland:  Yeah. There's a man named—I talked about martial arts. This is new. This man named Sifu Matthew, who's my martial arts teacher. He's in Miami. He's an absolute fucking wizard. So, Sifu Matthew is somebody. I'll always mention David. David Deida's my teacher and, you know, has been for 12 years now. So, anything from David Deida, I would send people to. One of my teachers who's, you know, a showman in the lineage of Carlos Castaneda’s work, studied it for 20 years and is a true master in this realm is a man named Teo Alfero, who would be great for the podcast, by the way. He lives in Acton.

Luke Storey:  Oh, really? Oh, cool.

John Wineland:  Yeah. He owns a—he started an organization called Wolf Connection, right? And so, he rescues wolf. He's got a wolf sanctuary, like 30 to 50 wolves in Acton, outside of Los Angeles. It's awesome. 

Luke Storey:  Oh, wow.

John Wineland:  It's awesome. And he a no-bullshit shaman, you know, like he doesn't call himself that, but that's what he is. And so, he wrote a book called—I think it's called The Wolf Connection, but he just wrote a book that's doing really well. So, I would send them to Teo, too. 

Luke Storey:  Sweet.

John Wineland:  That’s Teo Alfero. Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  Teo Alfero. And what about a website, social media, anything you want to plug? 

John Wineland:  Yeah. You know, I'm having a lot of fun with the virtual workshop, right? So, for a lot of people who can't get to my workshops, because I only teach a coupl, three a year for co-eds or men, you can come on to a virtual workshop where I do office hours, answer questions. I literally load all the content from my workshops, including lots of the practices that we talked about onto the virtual workshop. So, if you hit my website, you can sign up for the virtual workshop. It's like 60 bucks a month and you can stay on it as long as you want. Get as much as you want. It's like kind of like Netflix for all this shit. 

Luke Storey:  Cool. 

John Wineland:  Yeah. Yeah.

Luke Storey:  Cool. All right, dude. Well, thanks for joining me again. 

John Wineland:  Oh, man. I love it.

Luke Storey:  All right. 

John Wineland:  It’s good to see you, brother. 

Luke Storey:  See you soon.

John Wineland:  Yeah. 

Luke Storey:  Thank you so much for joining me on yet another episode of The Life Stylist Podcast. I trust that you were inspired to improve the relationship you're in or to find one that suits you and your highest good. I've learned so much from John over the years and man, I just can't get enough of this guy. I could have him on the show every week, honestly. The area of romantic relationships has been one that, I've, I've learned some hard lessons in and one that's not come easy for a number of different reasons. 

A, the obvious ones, you know, early trauma, addiction, all those kinds of things that I had to work through first. But then, just not really focusing on it for so many years. Really just having fun and being free and single and having a career and doing all the things that I did for past 20 years before I really started getting serious about finding a very special relationship, which now, I have. I hadn't at the time of this recording, but I'm happy to report that I'm putting all that I've learned in life and from John and teachers like him to work and it's paying off. 

I'm very happy and I'm sure we'll be talking more about that soon. But first and foremost, I want to thank you for listening to this show. And I think it's through really learning how to relate to one another that we can not only improve and enrich our own lives, but send a ripple effect of love, positivity, compassion, and empathy out to those around us. And in so doing, transform our little corner of the world. So, thank you for participating. And if you made it through to the end of this episode, that qualifies you to be someone who's committed to improving themselves in their life. 

So, I congratulate you for that and thank you for joining me in my journey to do just that. This show and every other show of The Life Stylist Podcast that's ever been or ever will be would not be possible if it was not for the support of our sponsors. Don't hang up. Please listen. They're very important. These are awesome. The first one is Comrad socks. No,w I know this sounds crazy, like why is Luke talking about socks? Dude, actually, it's funny, right at this very moment, I have my Comrad compression socks on. 

I love when I practice what I preach. It was not intentional, but I'm taking a road trip today. I'm driving off to someplace called Indian Wells, which I think is near Palm Springs or something, to spend a week with Joe Dispenza, who was on the show a couple of weeks ago, as I said. And on long drives, when I'm going to be sitting for long periods of time, standing for long periods of time and especially flying, I always wear my Comrad socks, which you can find at comradsocks.com. The discount code there is Luke and that saves you 20% off. 

Then, my friends over at Four Sigmatic. You know, I'm going to be packing some of their little instant coffees to go when I go to this Joe Dispenza situation, because from what I hear, he's kind of on the Tony Robins tip, 12-hour days, all that business, going to be working hard on ourselves. So, I'll have some of their lion's mane instant coffee with me. You can get your hands on some of that at foursigmatic.com/lukestorey. If you want a discount, at foursigmatic.com/lukestorey, enter the code Life Stylist and you'll save 15%. 

Last but most certainly not least are our friends over at beekeepersnaturals.com. That's beekeepersnaturals.com. I just crush their bee products. I like to have a little of the old honey. They make a very special honey infused with pollen. And what's the other thing? Propolis. I like to have that at night. It helps me sleep. It's a glucose thing. It's something I discovered in the deep, in the biohacking world. I forget exactly how it works, but it does. And then, of course, when I travel, I have the propolis spray, which is my own little kind of natural antibiotic. 

And then, I just randomly crush spoonfuls of their bee pollen, because it's delicious and super healthy and full of copper and B vitamins and all sorts of bioavailable minerals and nutrients. That's beekeepersnaturals.com if you want to get the best and most organic and toxin-free bee products on the planet from some people that not only make great products, but really do a lot in the conservation of our bee communities around the world, which is vastly important. And you can get yourself a discount with the code Life Stylist at beekeepersnaturals.com and that saves you 15%. 

So, there you go. Keep your feet cozy with those compression socks. Get your coffee and medicinal mushrooms from Four Sigmatic. When you make that coffee drink, throw some Beekeeper’s Naturals honey in there and you are winning at the game of life. Folks, thank you so much, again, for joining me. I'll be back Tuesday where we talk about alleviating stress on a very profound level with Jim Poole. And then, again, on Friday, with a solo show of a talk I did at Mercado Sagrado. Can't wait to share the upcoming episodes with you. Make sure to tune in and don't forget to subscribe, so you don't miss any of the upcoming shows. All right. Peace out.


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