[00:01:02] Luke Storey: So we did a session, what was that, a couple months ago?

[00:01:05] Kyle Coursey: At least.

[00:01:07] Luke Storey: I mean, life-changing, and we're gonna go into that, of course, the origins of your work and how it came to be. Um, so you call it the reset now. Yeah. First thing I wanted to ask you is, what is the wildest thing you've ever experienced facilitating a reset session?

[00:01:29] Kyle Coursey: Um, I think it was the session I did on a full dose of ayahuasca. I wasn't on it, but the client was on it, and they had their own medicine person, um, singing and chanting and playing music as well. And it was one of my favorite sessions and one of the most intense because of the layer that ayahuasca adds to it and the spiritual energetic things that were going on in the room.

[00:01:58] Kyle Coursey: Um, I'm sensitive to [00:02:00] them, and so to sit in them and to work with a medicine person at the same time as they're doing what they're doing and to help support that process through the somatic experience, um, was a really profound experience for the person. And so all the things that you'd see in a typical ayahuasca ceremony, the persons purging, like the shamans moving energies, and like I'm sitting in it and trying to amplify the experience and work in tandem with the medicine woman's music and the, the vibe that she's working on.

[00:02:38] Kyle Coursey: And it was just like-- I remember being in it and just seeing kind of like how I see these spaces is like one of my upper level things of what I'm hoping to, to pull off in the world is to expand, um, practitioners kind of scope of what's helping people and [00:03:00] how it's helping people. So they might be open to utilize, um, either another modality or another approach simultaneously with the approach they're already using.

[00:03:10] Kyle Coursey: And what I, what I see consistently is like the more things you can kind of accumulate and use simultaneously, usually the more beneficial the outcome is. Um, and so it was just such a beautiful, wild experience for me to actually sit with a medicine person, have a person willing to, to go on that journey and to like do something that I've been Literally, like creating for as long as I've started this in combining approaches to try to hit as many layers of the human as possible.

[00:03:46] Kyle Coursey: And so it was a wild experience. Like, they're purging- ... I'm working, Shaman singing, amplifying the, the whole thing. The room is just lit up with energy, you know?

[00:03:57] Luke Storey: Wow.

[00:03:58] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:03:58] Luke Storey: Uh, and I'm [00:04:00] assuming in the, in the bodywork portion they're on a massage table?

[00:04:03] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:04:04] Luke Storey: Are they, like, purging through the, the face hole?

[00:04:07] Kyle Coursey: Like, at points they almost did. But we had a bucket underneath the table. And so literally, like, as soon as I would see the contractions, I would reach down while keeping my hands on them, and I would actually pull up the bucket so they could pull their face out and actually purge at the same time.

[00:04:24] Luke Storey: Wow.

[00:04:25] Luke Storey: Yeah. Wow. I was thinking about that when we did our session and, um, I don't know, just the depth of that experience. I took some mushrooms and a heart opener, so I w- I wasn't nauseous at all. I felt great in my body and was totally chill, no headache, nothing, you know? Yeah. Just physically felt very fortified and, and, uh, and not sick in any way.

[00:04:48] Luke Storey: But I was thinking about that, you know. I mean, you can go really deep with mushrooms. I mean, they're probably my... Well, they are my longest standing allies. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, [00:05:00] I think I-- first time I took mushrooms was probably 1987, you know?

[00:05:05] Kyle Coursey: Wow.

[00:05:06] Luke Storey: So it's been a-

[00:05:06] Kyle Coursey: Well you've been in this space for a while.

[00:05:09] Luke Storey: Yeah, but there w- there was a 20-year break- Yeah, yeah ... you know, of s- when I was, you know, in that, in that version of sobriety. But point being, I remember thinking, man, the DMT space could be really profound with your work, but I couldn't imagine having to manage nausea and stuff like that when you take DMT via Ayahuasca.

[00:05:30] Luke Storey: You know, it's historically been a really physically challenging experience for me. Yeah. I never purge, but I just feel- Uncomfortable ... super nauseous, and it's really hard to find a comfortable position.

[00:05:41] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:05:41] Luke Storey: I think that's something I've struggled with a lot in, in ceremonies with Ayahuasca is just like, okay, I'll lay there for two hours thinking about, like, should I roll over?

[00:05:51] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like so much energy goes into am I gonna puke? Do I need to go to the bathroom? You know, it's just there's a lot of physical management [00:06:00] involved.

[00:06:00] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. So- That's actually something I'd love to hear you speak about on your experience because, like I think I'm excited with, with the work I'm doing with people with medicine.

[00:06:11] Kyle Coursey: And to be clear, I don't do medicine sessions with everybody. It's actually, uh, the majority is done completely sober. But the people who are willing, the people who have experience, who have done a lot of medicine or used allies, um, whatever term you wanna use, um, it's a different experience for mo- even the most seasoned, uh, psychonauts or, uh, medicine pursuers hit a different layer of the experience when they're on the medicine and what is-

[00:06:41] Luke Storey: Oh, I-- Yeah.

[00:06:42] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And so like-- And so this comes to like another one of my things that I'm like trying to work with, 'cause now I'm hearing stories from the jungle of like shamans actually like combining a little bit of touch with the medicine work because they're starting to understand that it's moving the energy that they're [00:07:00] talking about in different ways as well.

[00:07:02] Kyle Coursey: But what's interesting is, is that most people when they're on the medicine There's two parts to it. There's a conversational part that I think actually structural-- structurizes the content that comes up. But the touch can actually be an anchor to go deeper into the experience as opposed to sitting in, um, a lot of the n-noise or information that can come up.

[00:07:30] Kyle Coursey: Is this making sense?

[00:07:32] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:32] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And so, like, I would love to hear you speak because you've used these things so many times, and you have such, like, an adeptness to the space, and you know consistently what they do. Um, I'd love to hear a firsthand experience of, of your experience w-being touched and kind of almost like what I'm using touch for in some cases is how the shamans use, um, music or sound.

[00:07:56] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:57] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I'm-- One of the, the concepts I [00:08:00] play heavily with is, uh, kind of like a, a adaptation to the Shipibo belief system of at some form or another, when our-- when we're experiencing symptoms, like of struggle or of pain or of suffering, their belief system is we're all like a, a song. And so part of that song is either looping or distorted or, um, not playing its full expression.

[00:08:28] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:29] Kyle Coursey: And so what I'm trying to do on the physical level is very similar to what they're d- what they're using music and sound for, is to try to help, uh, resolve the distortion in the song, in the system, um, physically. And we can get into the layers I've found as I've worked and why I've incorporated actually some of their techniques and their, their music during sessions.

[00:08:51] Kyle Coursey: Um, but I think the touch while on, um, plant medicine or psychedelics or, or [00:09:00] allies, uh, can anchor one and kind of act as a guide deeper into the experience and to hit layers that maybe would be a little bit harder to reach because of all the information and the experience happening.

[00:09:16] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:09:17] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. Um, but yeah, I would love to hear your experience because you've used them so much, like...

[00:09:23] Luke Storey: I mean, I-- It's funny, we had some friends over for dinner last night, and I was telling them about some of the many breakthroughs I had on that day. And I think we spent fourteen, fifteen hours together or something. And, you know, well, for those listening and watching, we'll give more context as we go. Um, but I was explaining it to him and, um, the, the way that I explained it was pr-prefaced by saying this is gonna sound really sort of trite or obvious.

[00:09:54] Luke Storey: And it's like sometimes with these kind of experiences, words just can't do [00:10:00] it. You know what I mean? They just don't do it. Ineffable. But what I said was it was like I have such a great relationship with mushrooms. You know? I just feel so safe in that space and have had, um, just really... At this later stage in life, when I approach them with intentionality, leaving aside the '80s and '90s when I really put myself in some really dangerous situations and probably caused myself a lot of harm, um, using, you know, psychedelics.

[00:10:29] Luke Storey: But in this last, uh, eight, nine years or so, I mean, mushrooms are just... I kind of know what to expect.

[00:10:36] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:37] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas one thing I, I, I wrote something in my book about ayahuasca, and I said, you know, "The only predictable thing about ayahuasca is, is that it's completely unpredictable."

[00:10:47] Luke Storey: It's like y- you have no idea what's gonna happen. Ever. You know? Yep. Uh, which is challenging for me. So I think that that's one of the reasons mushrooms to me feel kind of safe, is- Yeah ... I know the general [00:11:00] landscape, right? Yeah. I don't know what direction we're gonna go and what I might work on or realizations, insights, et cetera.

[00:11:06] Luke Storey: But it's, it's, it's not surprising in the sense that it does something completely different. Mm-hmm. You kind of have an idea of what you're walking into. So I was telling my friends, um, Michael and Rhea, about my work with you and just how transformative it was, and I said, "It was the first time where I ever felt-" The mushrooms working in my body- Yeah

[00:11:31] Luke Storey: and that your hands were the mushrooms.

[00:11:36] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:11:37] Luke Storey: Right? And, and I explained it. I said, you know, talking about you, I said, "Yeah, Kyle, I think he's just-- he's really adept at that field, right?" And he, he's-- It's kind of like when I've tripped with my dog with me. Like, she gets high as shit. You know what I mean? She just...

[00:11:52] Luke Storey: She absorbs the field. She's so sensitive to energy, you know, and you have that capacity, obviously, in the work that you've been doing for a long time. So it's like you [00:12:00] didn't need to take mushrooms to go into that field, but it's like we were in this portal together.

[00:12:05] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:06] Luke Storey: And so the touch part, it was really an extension of the, mm, spirit of the medicine.

[00:12:14] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:12:15] Luke Storey: You know? So it's like the medicine's kind of creating this bubble field around us, and it's speaking through your body into my body, right? Which is a totally unique experience because, at least for me, um, I've never really been in that kind of space where touch is emphasized to that degree, and especially for that long, right?

[00:12:38] Luke Storey: I mean, you know, someone might come over and rub your chest or... I don't... You know. There's like hit you with a feather fan, you know. But it's, um, it's, you know, much more subtle and, and brief, right? So that's how I was explaining it, was like I remember, you know, I'm-- again, I'm, I'm in the, the massage table with my head poking through the, you know, the headrest-

[00:12:59] Luke Storey: and [00:13:00] just laughing my ass off, just going, "Oh my God, this is what I've always wanted to happen in the medicine space," you know? I was just like, "I've had so many experiences where I'm like, 'God, I just... I feel there's something stuck in me,' or I wanna expand in my physicality," and, you know, those, the, the kind of, um, containers aren't set up for that.

[00:13:21] Luke Storey: Yeah. You know? And so I just go, "Oh, well, maybe someday." So it was, it was... Part of it was just going, "Oh my God, finally. I've just always wondered what this would be like." You know? And, um, and then I think a huge part of it too was the realization that So much of the stuff I've been working on healing is really body-based.

[00:13:45] Luke Storey: It's like stuck in the body.

[00:13:47] Kyle Coursey: Yep.

[00:13:48] Luke Storey: You know? And so there was so much intentionality around that within me and also you because of the talking that happened beforehand. So there was a very clear template [00:14:00] of the intentionality. It wasn't just like, "Oh, say your intentions," you know? It was like, I mean, I had a laundry list of-

[00:14:08] Luke Storey: intentions, right? But when you're talking about it, you know, it's, uh, there's a lot of mind involved, there's a lot of intellect involved, which is, you know, we can talk about talk therapy and, you know, some of the limitations involved in that. But yeah, I think overall that was, that was the basis of my experience, was like, finally, thank God.

[00:14:26] Luke Storey: I knew there was something really deep here by m- merging these two- Yeah ... modalities. Um, the, the knowing that the intelligence of the mushrooms were working through your body and just hitting me in a way that I just, I couldn't even communicate that I needed that.

[00:14:46] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:14:47] Luke Storey: Like, if I told... If you're like, "Standard body work session, what do you wanna work on?"

[00:14:50] Luke Storey: "Oh, my neck's a little sore. Kinda got this thing in my lower back." You know, that kinda-

[00:14:54] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm ...

[00:14:55] Luke Storey: it's very superficial in comparison- Yeah ... where this, like, nothing needed to be [00:15:00] said. I never for a minute was I going, "Oh, I wish he would go here, or softer or harder," or whatever. It was just like you knew, I knew, the mushrooms knew.

[00:15:09] Luke Storey: There's this holy trinity-

[00:15:11] Kyle Coursey: Orchestra.

[00:15:11] Luke Storey: Yeah. This, those little orchestra of three, plus the music, so four really, right? Exactly. 'Cause you got your-

[00:15:16] Kyle Coursey: That's an important

[00:15:17] Luke Storey: part ... your playlist. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it was that and, and just so much emphasis For me, in just feeling how some of those things that I haven't been able to really reach, I just got such a clear sense that they were stuck in my body.

[00:15:34] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:35] Luke Storey: The cells in my body, I, you know, the nervous system. It's hanging on to things that don't serve me.

[00:15:41] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:15:41] Luke Storey: So it's very much like a, um, an exorcism of just stuck energy and I'm, I'm-- you, you, you know, you may or may not remember 'cause you work with a lot of people, but I kept saying, "Anything that's not true, anything that's not love, get the [00:16:00] fuck out of my body."

[00:16:01] Luke Storey: Yep. Um, I said that over and over again, as I remember. Um, and it was really beautiful, too, because I could tell that it was happening. You know what I mean? It was like, that's why I kept doing it. I was like, "Whoa, this is working." I'd take a huge breath in, breathe in all this love, and you'd, like, dig in, and then I'd exhale and just, "Get the fuck out."

[00:16:25] Luke Storey: It was so liberating.

[00:16:27] Kyle Coursey: That's, I think, an important part that you just touched on is a lot of us intuitively know that these experiences are necessary, but we haven't had them, like, truly organically experience them firsthand. And when you connect those two, like, what I'm trying to do is provide a space for a person and maybe some support in actually experiencing those sensations firsthand so they can make the psychological, emotional, physical connection to feel what it feels like and to connect to a layer of themselves that normally they [00:17:00] don't have access to in order to, like you said, actually push these negative, denser feelings, emotions, energies out of your system and to feel what it feels like to pulse love, um, higher frequency vibrations into your system, and to see how the system actually responds to that in real time through a firsthand experiences changes a lot of the actual outcome of the, the sessions, right?

[00:17:27] Kyle Coursey: And that goes to the layer that the sh- the shamans are working on, right? It's a subtler layer that isn't really accessible to most. But once you have it, you can't unsee it, and you can't unvalidate it, right? Like, it doesn't really matter what a person says or if they get it or not. Like, the firsthand experience is all that tends to matter at the end of it.

[00:17:46] Kyle Coursey: And that's, I think, one of my upper-level beliefs, too, is that, like, if I can help a person experience something, truly experience something, not intellectualize something, it hits so [00:18:00] much deeper, and it starts to touch layers of them and do the work for them in the way of, like, most people who come to see me have done decades of therapy or medicine journeys or work, right?

[00:18:11] Kyle Coursey: And What I see more often than not is a form of intellectualizing of that experience. And, uh, one of my one of the things I tell people over and over is like, "You can't think your way to that outcome." Right? Especially if there's some anchor point in the somatic experience, and usually for us there is because they're not separate, and they tend to reflect and reconfirm each other's reality in real time, and most of us have been in these situations for so long that it's just a top-down, bottom-up consistent signal, consistent experience.

[00:18:52] Kyle Coursey: And this is another reason I, I play in all worlds and try to combine as many things as possible is if there's [00:19:00] a system that's still out of distortion or like in distortion, um, what can happen is, is after the experience or after the intervention, like whether it's psychotherapy, whether it's like-- even if it's a body-based approach, right?

[00:19:16] Kyle Coursey: What I see more often than not is that if both aren't addressed the, the psychology, the emotionality, the energetic system, and the spiritual system, like one can still remain kind of distorted and then pull the others back out of alignment on the back end.

[00:19:36] Luke Storey: Mm. Yeah.

[00:19:37] Kyle Coursey: And so this is like-- I think this is one of the more important things is like how do we take that subjective experience and put it first and foremost when we're dealing with people, you know?

[00:19:49] Kyle Coursey: Because I can tell you, like you, you can go to, uh, a psychotherapy session all day and the, the psychiatrist can tell you like what you're missing or what you're doing or [00:20:00] a pattern you're repeating. But if it doesn't hit on an emotional level, it usually doesn't stick. We almost have a hard time accepting it as well, even if we know it's right.

[00:20:12] Kyle Coursey: But if you have a first-hand experience, a felt sense of that truth or a felt sense of you letting go energetically of the negative stories that you're holding, it's much more likely that that will have the impact you've been seeking, that shift. 100%, yeah. So true. I was thinking about, um,

[00:20:33] Luke Storey: I got sent to this like cult, cultish boarding school when I was 14 for two years.

[00:20:40] Luke Storey: I didn't know it was like a cult when I was in it. You never know you're in a cult when you're in it, you know? You get out and you go, "Oh, wow, that was a lot of indoctrination." Um, but there was, there was a lot of group therapy and talk therapy and primal scream therapy. And some of it was physical, like, you know, hitting the, the wiffle ball bat.

[00:20:58] Luke Storey: You'd hit pillows and get [00:21:00] your rage out and, you know, crying and screaming and all this kind of stuff. Um, but that was the first time I really talked about some of the trauma that I experienced as a kid. And so there was a certain, a certain amount of liberation from that, of just being seen and accepted by my little group of peers and like group therapy and things like that.

[00:21:22] Luke Storey: I think that was kind of, you know, a good opening. But in any kind of talk-based therapy that I ever did, which I haven't done in a traditional sense in a long time, it's like I could only get to Maybe the, the f- the first layer of shame-

[00:21:44] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:21:44] Luke Storey: right? Of just going like, "I'm imperfect, and I've gone through these things," and, you know, things that I was withholding or had never told anyone.

[00:21:52] Luke Storey: There's a certain, there's a certain freedom in just revealing yourself. But it, it only goes so [00:22:00] deep, right? Because there's- The feeling still

[00:22:01] Kyle Coursey: remains ...

[00:22:01] Luke Storey: there's, like, so much subconscious.

[00:22:04] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:05] Luke Storey: You know, the, the PTSD, the post part of trauma, um, the shame, which we've talked about a lot, uh, which is huge. I wanna talk about it more.

[00:22:15] Luke Storey: But it's like, yeah, I think in, in the stages of healing, in my experience, it's an important stage to get kind of- It is ... an understanding of what makes you tick from a psychological perspective and to, and to learn how to speak your truth- Yeah ... and to verbalize your i- your inner experience and, you know, allow it to be seen.

[00:22:35] Luke Storey: But it it really is very limiting. You know, it only goes so far.

[00:22:39] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:22:40] Luke Storey: Yeah. And so that-

[00:22:41] Kyle Coursey: And that's why I like to look at these things. Like, I'm not trying to condemn these things. I actually utilize these approaches, right? Yeah. Like the talk therapy part. They're actually really beneficial for what they do.

[00:22:51] Kyle Coursey: There's just a secondary stage that needs to be done as well. And so, like, like you said, like, we sat down and we talked for a long time. Part of that is [00:23:00] because of the value of what you just spoke to, to articulate out loud what's going on, to be seen in our, what we consider to be weaknesses, inadequacies, shame, like, incapabilities.

[00:23:14] Kyle Coursey: Like, that part is, I think, a really important part that most people don't understand the nuance to. To be witnessed in those unjudgingly, uh, I think is a layer of that healing that happens. And that's why I'm combining all of them, um, because that, that is a profound piece of the puzzle, and I don't wanna downplay that.

[00:23:35] Kyle Coursey: I love what psychotherapists are doing. I love all, all the things that they've created, I've pulled from, and I've utilized, you know? But what the newer research is starting to show is that the body needs to be addressed most times as well because it can be, it can hold the story as well And for a person to get the [00:24:00] felt sense, I think that's what happens to most people is that just speaking about it doesn't change their felt sense of it.

[00:24:08] Kyle Coursey: And so if I can get a person to go in and experience a different felt sense for an extended period of time, it more often than not allows them to believe that psychological thing that they w- they understood because they have the felt sense of being something different or feeling different other than the story.

[00:24:29] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:31] Kyle Coursey: And so, like, I think what I'm hoping to impart is, like, I'm hoping to give a person that experience, one, to have both of them connected in a way that's, like, meaningful and, like, actually helps them process through some of that. But like I said earlier, I would love to start Demonstrating this to other practitioners who are using just either one or the other approaches, and it could be just body approaches, it could be just, you know, energetic [00:25:00] approaches.

[00:25:00] Kyle Coursey: Like, what can we do as a group of people trying to help people, um, to help people even more?

[00:25:09] Luke Storey: I love that idea.

[00:25:11] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And that's the seed I'm hoping to plant with these, these conversations.

[00:25:14] Luke Storey: Amazing, dude.

[00:25:15] Kyle Coursey: Like, I love what you guys are doing. I'm not knocking any of it. Like, I just want everybody to know that.

[00:25:20] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. I utilize all the things you guys have learned. Like, that's what I do. I'm like an intermediary. I'm a bridge between worlds. I'm just more of a experimenter in the way that I've saw, like, how these things affect, and I, I'm trying to combine as many of them as possible to create a way to do what you guys are already doing, is just help people.

[00:25:43] Kyle Coursey: You know? Just, like, help people even more who-- And don't get me wrong, like, some people are helped by these systems, singular systems, and, like, that's great. I love that. But for the people who aren't, like, let's see if we can give you guys more tools. Like, let's... And, like, that's the thing I get excited about with talking [00:26:00] to people with you who, like, have spent so much time in all these spaces, and to see where the nuance is and, and to talk to it, 'cause conceptualizing these things opens up newer realities.

[00:26:11] Kyle Coursey: And so now we get to play with, like, ideas that maybe we once didn't see. And maybe we can take this information, and maybe we can hopefully, like, synthesize a way of our own. Like, I'm not saying everybody should do my system. I don't think everybody's incapable. But to take-- to glean information off what I'm saying and to implement it in your way, I think is where the field is heading.

[00:26:36] Kyle Coursey: Everybody's own unique expression and understanding of how these systems combine and affect to help more people in a more beneficial way, and kind of like one of my upper goals is, like, breaking the patterns that we've inherited, like societally, culturally, familially. Like, what happens when we can free people from [00:27:00] those distortions, from those narratives, from those experiences, and, and how they positively affect everybody else, you know?

[00:27:06] Kyle Coursey: And that's, again, that's one of my, like, driving things behind everything, is like how many people can we just help feel like they can go into the world and do good things again, or at, at least be their best selves for their, the people close to them?

[00:27:23] Luke Storey: Yeah. I mean, think about a world where there are More people and coherence

[00:27:29] Kyle Coursey: Oh Like, you know?

[00:27:31] Kyle Coursey: That's what I've been trying to do. Like

[00:27:33] Luke Storey: I mean-

[00:27:34] Kyle Coursey: That's what I've been trying to do ...

[00:27:34] Luke Storey: I'm a better person, a better husband, a, a better, better or worse, but I would say more in integrity with-

[00:27:43] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:27:43] Luke Storey: who I am and who I wanna be.

[00:27:45] Kyle Coursey: And I

[00:27:45] Luke Storey: think that's an important part. Since, since your session, you know? Yeah. So it's, like, the ripple effect.

[00:27:49] Luke Storey: But it's funny you mention about, you know, wanting to kind of train other people or share your modality and, you know, obviously people have various expertise and can- [00:28:00] Yeah ... tune it to their own-

[00:28:01] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:28:02] Luke Storey: skill set. But I remember, um, during the session with you, I mean, one of the things I was just going, "Oh my God, I can't believe I've lived this long and I haven't had this experience."

[00:28:14] Luke Storey: I don't know if you remember that. I do. I was laughing. I was just like- I love when you said it ... oh my God. I was just like, what the fuck? How have I been walking a- how have I survived without this, you know? And I'm, and I, I'm like, I'm not blowing you, blowing smoke up your ass. Yeah. I mean, I was really... And that's still true.

[00:28:31] Luke Storey: It was just like, oh my God, A, how have I never done this? B, I need to do this a lot more. A lot more. And then, oh my God, there are millions and millions and millions and millions of people who will live an entire lifetime, probably many lifetimes, and never have this experience.

[00:28:50] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:28:51] Luke Storey: And that to me felt so tragic.

[00:28:54] Luke Storey: And thinking about, well, you're not, you in and of yourself aren't scalable, you know? So like

[00:28:59] Kyle Coursey: something- All my [00:29:00] entrepreneur friends look at me and they're like, "Kyle, this is great, but it's not scalable. What are you gonna do?"

[00:29:04] Luke Storey: Right. But I mean, also just, you know, I can only imagine the, you know, the energy output and the, I don't wanna say a toll- Yeah

[00:29:10] Luke Storey: but it's like, man, when you're moving that kind of energy and you're physically working, you're mentally working, I mean, you're putting a lot of energy into those sessions. Yeah. And I remember asking you about it, like, "Dude, how many days do you have to recover in between these things?" 'Cause like, it's gotta be a lot.

[00:29:26] Luke Storey: So I remember having this sense that, like, working with you is f- finite to some degree- Yeah ... because y- you're probably not gonna want to or be able to keep going the way you're going. Mm. Like back-to-back clients, a day off, traveling all over, right?

[00:29:42] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:29:42] Luke Storey: I mean, it's just likely not sustainable for all that long.

[00:29:46] Luke Storey: So I was like, A, how, how have I not had this experience? I need to do it more. Everyone should be doing this. Kyle can't do it with everyone, you know? I know. So the idea of, you know, some kind [00:30:00] of training- Yeah ... adopting, you know, practitioners into this, I think is amazing. It's so needed. Um, for people listening, I feel like we kind of just dropped in in the, in the middle of it-

[00:30:10] Luke Storey: which is fine 'cause there's, this is a nonlinear podcast. Should just call it that, The Nonlinear Show. Um- But for people that are like, "What are you guys even talking about?" Maybe just start at- Okay ... you know, the beginning of What a session looks like for someone that has no idea. And, and adding to that, one thing that I've been curious about is in the talking portion 'cause I can see you do it now when I'm talking with my hands you're, like, tracking my body language a lot.

[00:30:40] Luke Storey: Yeah. Which when we did the talk portion sitting right here in these chairs- ... a couple months ago, I was like, "What is he seeing?" You know? I'm like, "Okay, sit still. Don't move your arms," you know? But I, I wanna know, you know, kind of what you, A, what the modality is, you can explain that, and then also I'm really curious about, like, what is your experience [00:31:00] of working with people, right?

[00:31:01] Luke Storey: Not just what you see in them, but- Yeah ... when you're looking at my body language and hand, like, what are you noticing? What are you tracking? W- what does it contribute to the effectiveness of the overall session? So give me both parts. What does it look like objectively, and what is it like for you subjectively?

[00:31:25] Luke Storey: I'm all for a healthy gut and detox programs, but honestly, most detoxes just seem like an expensive way to have a terrible week. You know what I'm talking about. Harsh ingredients, cramping, fatigue. You're basically forcing your body to flush everything out, whether it's ready or not. Personally, that never made sense to me because let's face it, your poor gut is already dealing with enough: pesticides, food additives, environmental toxins, all day, every day.

[00:31:52] Luke Storey: So instead of forcing the detox process, I use something that actually works with my body. It's called Daily Gut Detox from Just [00:32:00] Thrive, and it's one of the simplest, gentlest ways I know to keep my gut in a good place. It uses something called immunoglobulins, which bind like a magnet to toxins, microbes, and other irritants in your gut and help carry them right out of your body.

[00:32:15] Luke Storey: So there's no harsh flushing, no crash, no feeling wrecked for days like you would on some of the other more aggressive detox programs. It's something you can take daily that keeps your gut clean and functioning the way it's supposed to. For me, that shows up as smoother digestion, better energy, and feeling more like myself on a day-to-day basis.

[00:32:33] Luke Storey: So if you wanna get your gut detox dialed in, here is what you do. Go to justthrivehealth.com/luke and use the code Luke to get twenty percent off your order. So now, thanks to Just Thrive, you can stop punishing your body with harsh cleanses and start supporting it the way it was designed to work. Again, that link, which you'll also find clickable in the show description, is justthrivehealth.com/luke, and that [00:33:00] code is Luke.

[00:33:04] Kyle Coursey: What it is, is it's a synthesis of all of the modalities and approaches that I've kind of seen either mainstreamed or used historically, either through tribal traditions or through more modern approaches to help people. So it's a synthesis of everything I've learned, whether it's psychotherapy, whether it's tribal practices, medicine practices, whether it's somatic approaches, all of the lineages of somatic approaches, and even the newer stuff like neuroscience to help us understand what's actually going on neurochemically.

[00:33:39] Kyle Coursey: A lot of stuff pulled from biology to understand the effect of things that I'm doing in a session on a hormonal level. Um, and I think all of these things are important as practitioners because you-- it's a wiser way of implementing approaches and techniques during [00:34:00] a session to try to create a situation where the person will benefit, and that's ultimately what I'm trying to do.

[00:34:09] Kyle Coursey: The other unique variable about what I do is it's long format, and what I mean by long format is it's timeless. Like, I don't put a time duration on the session, and I think this is one of the most important, um, pieces of what I do. Um, I think we all live in time constructs, and when we put a time construct around a person's process, we limit their process significantly.

[00:34:40] Kyle Coursey: And so what I'm trying to do is create a space where there is no need to finish or get somewhere by a certain time, to just go until the person either can't or doesn't want to go anymore, or I've done everything I possibly can to help the person. And on the subtler levels, what this is doing [00:35:00] for a human being is most times it's providing a level of nurture and care that most of us have never received.

[00:35:08] Kyle Coursey: Not even close. Not even close. And so, like, I think that's another important piece of the puzzle that most people don't talk about is like- The lack of nurturing, if you wanna use the word support, connection, care, um, that most of us are walking through this life with. And one of my intentions is to fill a person's cup up so much that they're actually realize, like, how little they've been running on, but also so that it's as full as it can possibly be, and hopefully I can fill them up so much that they're overflowing so that it just pours out of them, and they go about their life filled up, happier, more content, more seen, more connected, and the, again, the ripple effect.

[00:35:56] Kyle Coursey: How it actually looks in practice is I will [00:36:00] usually require somebody who's interested or somebody who wants to do a session to take one full day off, and the reason is like yours. Like, it's... People don't believe me when I say this, but the sessions can go anywhere from 12 to 20 hours straight, and, like, they, they think-- they don't really quite understand, you know, what that means until they're in it and time just starts to blend.

[00:36:22] Kyle Coursey: I remember telling, um, Allison too when I did the intake form and, you know, understood kind of the, um, you know, the structure of your

[00:36:31] Luke Storey: work. Yeah. It was like, "Yeah, you gotta leave." Yeah. You know, we need the house to ourselves. No dog.

[00:36:35] Kyle Coursey: I'm glad you brought that up- No wife ... 'cause that's an important piece of the puzzle.

[00:36:38] Kyle Coursey: Like, energetically, subtle energetics. I'm working on all the back ends of these things with subtle energetics, and to have a empty space where somebody doesn't even have to consider anything else-

[00:36:50] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm ...

[00:36:50] Kyle Coursey: is a super important part as well. Like- Yeah ... to, to have your partner in the space, automatically there's a level of energetic, uh, [00:37:00] for lack of a better term, enmeshment- Mm-hmm

[00:37:02] Kyle Coursey: or at least, at the very least, like, uh, playing. For sure. You know?

[00:37:06] Luke Storey: Yeah. You're, you're aware they're in the other room. Oh, yeah. Are they bored? Are they-

[00:37:10] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:37:11] Luke Storey: are they bummed 'cause they can't walk through the room? You know, whatever. It could be an infinite number of things, but- And then- ... you're s- part of your energy in a, especially- Is out here

[00:37:19] Luke Storey: in a partnership, in a couple, like, you're so connected-

[00:37:23] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:37:23] Luke Storey: that y- in-- I'm imagining if you didn't do it the way you did it, like, if we had done our session and Allison would've been here, I definitely would've been thinking about her a lot more than when she was at a friend's house. Exactly. You know? I was like, "She's gone," and, you know, we're a text away, but I didn't have to, like, manage anything in relation to how she's feeling.

[00:37:44] Luke Storey: Yep. Right? It's just all about me.

[00:37:46] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, and that's a big part of it. Like, what I'm requiring, one of my non-negotiables, is that that person has the whole day spent to focus on themselves. No distractions, whether that's a pet, [00:38:00] a partner, a kid, um, some type of business obligation, um, and that becomes super important.

[00:38:07] Kyle Coursey: Uh, going back to, like, how I'm setting this up, I- Like you said, you fill out an intake. So I'll usually require a person to fill out an intake to, for me to see if there's any contraindications, to see if like maybe this wouldn't be a good thing for them. 'Cause my whole thing is I always wanna leave a person better off than I found them.

[00:38:28] Kyle Coursey: And a part of that is knowing when this might be too much for somebody or at the specific stage they're in, if they might need something else. Um, once they get past that, they also kind of get a sense for what the commitment is required and where they're possibly going in that day. But there's still part of the mind that's like, "Mm, he says this much of time, but I'm probably-- it's probably not gonna go that long a time," right?

[00:38:53] Kyle Coursey: And so going back to that piece of the puzzle is like, okay, how many hours can I keep you in this state [00:39:00] undistracted, focused on yourself, receiving? And like the way I like to put it to meditators is like imagine if you had a guided meditation bringing you into the layers that you couldn't access for twelve, fifteen, twenty fucking hours.

[00:39:16] Kyle Coursey: What progress would you make then with an external source actually redirecting you and forcing you back deeper? Because there's a lot of these places that the mind can't go on its own. And part of my job and part of what I help people do is to pull apart the threads of like what they're either not seeing or what they thought was irrelevant.

[00:39:36] Kyle Coursey: Um, so going back to the structure, I'll usually come to the person, right? Once they've gone through the intake process, once they've agreed to give me a whole day. Ideally, I would ask that the person had two or three days after the session to absolutely do nothing, to not have to take care of anybody, to not have to take care of obligations.

[00:39:59] Kyle Coursey: And [00:40:00] the reason for this is the depth at which the process itself creates usually brings up a lot of material, and this concept of integration becomes really important. And for those who are like unfamiliar with integration, the way I would define integration is taking the time to take everything that you've seen or like learned or felt and to truly sit with it, pull it apart, understand it, honor it, acknowledge it, contextualize it.

[00:40:33] Kyle Coursey: Because I think that's the part that a lot of people are missing, especially the people I'm seeing going into either plant medicine journeys or psychedelic therapy journeys, is if they don't have a way to contextualize what they just went through and what it means, a lot of them end up in like what I call limbo space of not knowing if it's a positive experience or a negative experience or what these things mean or what it says about them.

[00:40:59] Kyle Coursey: [00:41:00] And so I like people to have three days post-session ideally to just sit with everything that came up and actually analyze it. And the thing I do differently the most is during the talk part, I don't know if you remember this, but I'm actually trying to help a person see actionable outcomes. And I think this is an important part, like when you speak to like either psychotherapy or talk therapies, like I think a part that's really important is giving people actionable outcomes to interrupt the psychological emotional experiences that we're having.

[00:41:33] Kyle Coursey: And so this goes to the body-based experience of like, you know, like how do we create a different form of reality that interrupts the narrative that's so strong when we've had the narrative for twenty years and we've had the outcomes from it for, for as long as we can remember, right? Which is another layer of what I'm doing physically, but I'll get to that later.

[00:41:54] Kyle Coursey: I'll come to a person usually 'cause I want them in their own house because it's their, their comfort zone most [00:42:00] times, unless their house brings chaos. Like, I'll screen for all of that in the intake And what I especially want is I want them comfortable, but I want them in a place where when it's done, they don't have to think.

[00:42:12] Kyle Coursey: They can just either just sit with themselves, have access to their shower, their bathtub, whatever they need, and to just be able to crawl into bed without thinking about logistics or thinking about like how I'm gonna-- like nobody can drive after this. I don't care if you drink plant medicine or not.

[00:42:27] Kyle Coursey: Like, so you're gonna have to Uber if, at the very least, and then you're interacting with somebody else. I wanna create an envelope of clean space, 100% you with no external circumstances that could bring any distortion to the process that just happened. And what I'm trying to do is saturate you for extended periods of time.

[00:42:44] Kyle Coursey: And if I can get you to be alone for the couple days after, even more time you have to sit with yourself and just really comb through the content that came up instead of like dealing with your wife or dealing with other things, right? Like then you're out of your own experience again. [00:43:00] And I'm more geared toward altered traits than altered states, and that's like my whole outcome is like, so how do we set the situation up for the greatest amount of success?

[00:43:10] Kyle Coursey: And that's keep you in this process for as long as possible. That was a concept gleaned from Iboga. Iboga is an extended duration psychedelic, one of the most powerful ones that we have. And when I went through the process, like it kept me in that space for three days straight. Damn, son. Three days. I thought I lost my marbles, you know?

[00:43:30] Kyle Coursey: Like- Wow. But what it did was it kept me in there long enough to break all the boxes around my mind and to focus on all the things that I said I wanted to work on. And like that's another reason the sessions are so long. And we'll go into biologically why it's important and the, the duration of like the hormones and the neurochemicals in our system that we're running around with.

[00:43:51] Kyle Coursey: They, they need an extended period of an altered chemical and emotional state [00:44:00] to actually shift the neurochemical hormonal balance.

[00:44:05] Luke Storey: Um, going back to the session, sorry. No, it's okay. This is all great. Yeah. Going back- This is everything I would ask you from my little bullet point list. Perfect. That's good.

[00:44:14] Luke Storey: You're, you're hitting all the things I want people to, to be able to hear.

[00:44:17] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And going back to the session is once the person accepts if their house is a suitable environment and they can agree to the non-negotiables, which is not having any obligations or people in their environment, I'll usually come, we'll find a suitable space to do the work, right?

[00:44:36] Kyle Coursey: And once we figured out that, another condition that's highly important is they're able to control temperature. And the reason I need them to control temperature, I need it to be between 80 to 85 degrees. And the reason for this is that the, the soma, the fascia responds really well to heat And going back to this bottom-up concept of a lot of the experiences that we're having a hard time process through that we can't [00:45:00] access intellectually, they kind of reside in the body, and the fascia tends to reflect or hold.

[00:45:06] Kyle Coursey: Like, there's different opinions right now in the scientific space of, like, how these emotions are stored in the body. Like, some of them believe that it's actually stored physically through in the fascia. Some peoples believe that it's stored cellularly. And the neuroscientists are starting to lean towards this more of a neurochemical signature or cocktail that then resonates or provokes an experience that has become kind of associated with that type of touch or that location of touch.

[00:45:39] Kyle Coursey: But they need to be able to keep the environment warm, and one of those reasons is I want them calm. I want them in a, in a very, like, restful state where it's soothing, it's nurturing, it's safe, but also because the heat helps the fascia relax. So if we can control temperature, what we'll do is [00:46:00] we'll set up the, the space that we're going to do the actual physical body work on, and then we'll go and sit down, and we'll talk for as long as needed.

[00:46:11] Kyle Coursey: And that goes back to that timeless aspect If you want, I can explain why I have them talk that way. Yeah. And I think it's important. I wanna know, I wanna know why, and also what you're experiencing

[00:46:23] Luke Storey: during- Yeah, yeah ... the, the talk. 'Cause that w- that was one of the most interesting things to me. I mean, y- like I was saying, how you would just be tracking, you're just visually tracking whatever you're tracking.

[00:46:35] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:46:35] Luke Storey: You know, just uncommon when you're just having a normal conversation with someone, right? Yeah. They're not, like, scanning you.

[00:46:41] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:42] Luke Storey: But also, one thing that was really interesting about the talk, and it was just funny 'cause we were sitting right here when we did it. This is the- Same seats that we...

[00:46:49] Luke Storey: Yeah. I'm glad we didn't record that. It was a little, a little personal, uh, at times. But, um, one thing that was really interesting as the subject of said talk session [00:47:00] was, you know, I'm just kinda rattling off things from my life story, peak moments, high points, low points, et cetera, starting from, you know, as early as I, as early as I could remember.

[00:47:09] Luke Storey: But there were so many points at which you were like, "What? Uh, oh. Hold up. Back up. Say what you just said again." And I'm like, "Okay." I'd say the thing again, and the second time I said it, I could actually hear myself. And I remember there were a number of things that I, that you double-clicked on, and when I said them the second time, I was like, "Holy shit, this is what I actually think and believe."

[00:47:35] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:47:35] Luke Storey: After all of these years of, you know, made a lot of progress. I've been at this, you know, almost 30 years of-

[00:47:41] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:47:42] Luke Storey: awakening, healing, whatever you wanna call it, right? Recovery. And some of the things that even came out in that, I was just like, "Holy shit. I have so much more work to do." E- especially in the realm of self-worth.

[00:47:57] Luke Storey: Yeah. And just, you know, what I, what I [00:48:00] believe I'm, uh, deserving of, and, um, capable of. You know, just how How much I still sell myself short in many ways.

[00:48:12] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:48:12] Luke Storey: And that, I don't know. It's like I could've sat here and told someone my life story, and had they not had the, mm, the ability you do to just know when to tease an idea out, right?

[00:48:25] Luke Storey: And then like, "Let's zoom in on that a little bit." I don't know. I could just talk and talk and talk, like oftentimes happen in, in talks therapy. And it would've been... Like, say we had that long-form conversation, it would've been helpful to me just to like, man, just to be heard and to be seen, and just share everything in a safe space where I know I'm not being judged or graded, and I know there's confidentiality.

[00:48:50] Luke Storey: I felt that I could trust you in terms of, um, yeah, just in terms of you honoring my, my boundaries, and you're not, [00:49:00] you're not gonna go share with someone else things I said. That kind of thing, right? I mean, that would be useful, but what was really useful was the double clicks and like, "Hmm, no, no, no, no.

[00:49:09] Luke Storey: Slow down. Go back to that." And it was like, holy shit. I would've had no idea. I could talk to 10 people like that in a row, but if they didn't know where to stop me and what to look at in that, and a lot of therapists have the capacity and ability to do that. But that was really interesting, um, for me. And also, that gave me such a clear template in terms of what I wanted to work on when we actually moved on to the somatic part of it.

[00:49:39] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:49:39] Luke Storey: Right? It's like I couldn't unthink about the things that we just uncovered, so that became the, the template and the focal point- Yep ... of the things that I did through the body and through the medicine. It was like there was no e... I couldn't have, I couldn't have worked on anything else other than that 'cause it was so, um, a lot of the subconscious stuff through the talking was brought [00:50:00] to the conscious mind.

[00:50:01] Luke Storey: Yep. And so when I'm in a space doing the body work, and in our case, medicine, and as you said, most people don't work with medicine and you at the same time. But it's like in that space, I have access to the subconscious mind and the conscious mind. So, like I have this really broad spectrum of things that I can pull in and work with, right?

[00:50:24] Luke Storey: Yeah. Whereas if you were to just walked in, I take some medicine, we get on the table, I mean, I'm sure great stuff would happen, healing would take place, but there's no way it would've been as focused-

[00:50:35] Kyle Coursey: Exactly ...

[00:50:35] Luke Storey: and deliberate as it was because we did all that talking beforehand. So anyway, that's Part of my experience, if it's, if it's helpful, but-

[00:50:43] Kyle Coursey: Really helpful

[00:50:44] Luke Storey: carry on to, you know-

[00:50:47] Kyle Coursey: I mean, you just spoke to all the ingredients ... where you are in the process. You just spoke to all the ingredients, right? Like, part of the thing that I see is a way we can increase the effectiveness of psychedelic therapies or medicine work is to act-- When I use the word structure, this is [00:51:00] what I mean.

[00:51:01] Kyle Coursey: What if we, before we gave these things to people, we brought all their unconscious and conscious material to the surface so that they're not going into the experience seeing what happens, but all the content is top of mind and actually theirs?

[00:51:14] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:51:15] Kyle Coursey: Like w-- You know?

[00:51:17] Luke Storey: Like then-

[00:51:17] Kyle Coursey: Totally ... what progress could they make?

[00:51:19] Kyle Coursey: And this is a thing I'm hoping to hopefully, like, spark the curiosity of practitioners out there is like, what if we added another layer of it that helped the people even more, you know? And so all the things you just spoke about are all the little important pieces, I think, as practitioners we need to take into account is the space we're creating.

[00:51:42] Kyle Coursey: Like one is the safety, right? Is there, is there room to be seen, to express without being judged or fixed? And like that's my orientation as a witness, as a person sitting here like honoring the depth, the pain, the, the beauty, the, the hardship of [00:52:00] a person's life. And that orientation feels different to people.

[00:52:04] Kyle Coursey: And I think that felt sense actually changes and shapes the actual experience itself, right? If I sat here with the intention to psychoanal- psychoanal- analytically fix you, there'd be a little bit of like different orientation on your side to the experience, right? There'd be like a little bit of-

[00:52:22] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:52:22] Luke Storey: In, in that kind of dynamic, there's, um, a bit of a hierarchy.

[00:52:27] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:52:27] Luke Storey: Right? Where you're, you're trying to impress. You don't wanna disappoint. Yep. You wanna say it the right way.

[00:52:34] Kyle Coursey: The brain does all these little computations.

[00:52:35] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:52:36] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[00:52:36] Luke Storey: In the

[00:52:36] Kyle Coursey: context of the situation.

[00:52:38] Luke Storey: There's like that, then the, the therapist/practitioner, whatever, they're, they're in l- in a position of authority in a way.

[00:52:45] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:52:45] Luke Storey: Right? So

[00:52:46] Kyle Coursey: it's like- Which is changing the energetic dynamics of the thing in the first place. Right. Like as to say that this person isn't a whole person to begin with.

[00:52:53] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[00:52:53] Kyle Coursey: And that they don't have the ability to like self-heal. I think all biology does. I think there, a lot of times there's just a [00:53:00] blockage in the way we're trying to heal ourselves, and this orientation, I think, has, has a lot to do with the outcomes I see with my people, you know?

[00:53:09] Kyle Coursey: Is just to sit there and witness somebody in love and give them ultimate space to explore and share and honor their whole experience. And now when we talk about time duration and why I set it up the way I set it up is because going back to this concept, if I put an hour on you and tell you to tell me your whole life story, your brain's gonna do this computational thing where it's like, "I need to tell these most important parts."

[00:53:35] Kyle Coursey: The important parts don't hold the answers for us. Those double clicks that I do on the, the parts that we think are irrelevant hold the structures for which these experiences are still weighted. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and the processes our minds use to continue to hold onto them or to minimize their actual importance because the brain doesn't [00:54:00] have the efficiency needed in a real-life circumstance to go through the nuance of how their brain constructed reality and all their belief systems, and that's usually where I see the mistakes.

[00:54:12] Kyle Coursey: That's why I double-click so much. That's another part of the process is 'cause I'm trying to edit all your lines of code. I'm like, "Wait, there's something there that is actually probably contributing to this thing that you say is the thing," right? But most times it's not the thing. It's the stories we write around the thing.

[00:54:32] Kyle Coursey: That is where the answers usually lie. That is how we create a neuroplastic window into outcomes, right? And I'm doing them on both sides because I don't think that just the mind holds the answers. I think we need to create neuroplastic windows in the physiology at the same time. So now they're both mirroring back that space of a different reality or a different belief system or a different experience.

[00:54:55] Kyle Coursey: But going back to, like, your questions of, like, one, I'm creating an [00:55:00] environment where they can share with safety, where they can express themselves, be known, be seen. Just that alone, like, I don't think we can actually quantify what that does, and everybody who sits with me thinks that it's gonna do very little.

[00:55:13] Kyle Coursey: But it's actually, like, one of the parts where in the back end they're like, "Oh, now I see why you do it that way." Like, that kind of gave me a gift in and of

[00:55:19] Luke Storey: itself. Oh, 100%.

[00:55:21] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And so- Well,

[00:55:22] Luke Storey: another thing too about it, um, uh, during the talk, I never got the sense, like You were trying to fix me- Yep ... or heal me.

[00:55:35] Luke Storey: Yep. It's like- I'm not.

[00:55:37] Kyle Coursey: You're just- And I don't consider myself a healer, just so everybody knows. Like-

[00:55:40] Luke Storey: You're just listening, tracking, watching, and then there's a, a real sense of autonomy to it. Yeah. You know, you might say, "Hey, what did you just say? Say that again." And I say it, and then I'm the one that's going, "Oh, shit, now I see what this...

[00:55:53] Luke Storey: The meaning behind it," right? It's like the context is being revealed through the con- All you're doing is [00:56:00] bringing the content out. Yep. And then it's kind of within me to have the desire to look at the greater context or the deeper layers beneath whatever is being verbalized and intellectualized.

[00:56:13] Kyle Coursey: I think that's, that's an important part of the non-fixing orientation.

[00:56:17] Kyle Coursey: To, to sit here and say that I'm fixing you is undermining your own, like, authority. It's undermining your own capability. It's undermining your own power, right? Like, I believe you have all the answers in you, but some of these stories are blocking. That's why I use the word distortions, right? Some of these, uh, psychological assumptions or stories creat- created out of a continued experience based on what happened to us are the thing that are blocking our way of seeing the thing in a way that can actually unblock us.

[00:56:48] Kyle Coursey: And so the, the reason I set up an unlimited time format is for that reason, is like, to expect a person to, in a two-hour session, go into all the nuance of [00:57:00] who they are and everything that, like, basically shaped them and put them in this position in the first place, I don't think it's possible, first of all.

[00:57:10] Kyle Coursey: Like, and I don't think it does anybody justice to keep scratching the top of mind or the, the story that's already there. Like, there's this concept from trauma therapy that I pull from is, like, to keep re-exposing a person to their thing sometimes doesn't do mu- much benefit. Sometimes it actually does the opposite.

[00:57:27] Kyle Coursey: It actually reconfirms the story because they can't seem to work their way out of it. And so the continual exposure to it, the, the continual recitation of it actually drives that neural loop even deeper, and this is what I'm starting to see in the psychedelic worlds and, like, whether it's microdosing or even, like, full-blown doses, is that if people are exposing theirself and they're not actually able to sh- structurally contextualize the information in a, in a modern framework where they can go implement their life, [00:58:00] it becomes a process of re-exposure and sitting in more, more, and more information, not being able to utilize that information, then going back to the thing to try to get the answers again.

[00:58:13] Kyle Coursey: And that's what I consider different about my approach is, in the conversational part, I don't know if you remember this, but I was very clear on the steps necessary to walk yourself out of those belief systems. To, in real life, without medicine, without me there, to do differently what you believe and to let yourself see a different reality and experience a different reality so that the synapses in your brain can rewire a new outcome.

[00:58:40] Kyle Coursey: And that's the thing I see with most psychological approaches is if you provide an intellectual insight with action without an actual differential outcome, it has no choice but to pull from the, the story it knows with the outcomes it knows.

[00:58:54] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:58:55] Kyle Coursey: It doesn't have the safety. It doesn't have the practice.

[00:58:58] Kyle Coursey: It doesn't have a real-life [00:59:00] example of, like, a different reality or a different outcome.

[00:59:03] Luke Storey: And has the inertia of habit Yeah. Yeah ... of some, for some of us, decades of-

[00:59:09] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[00:59:10] Luke Storey: ways of thinking and feeling-

[00:59:12] Kyle Coursey: And that's another

[00:59:12] Luke Storey: thing ... a certain perspective. That's another- Also, one thing, too- Go ... uh, that just came to me is, you know, doing, I don't know, we talked for eight hours or something probably sitting here.

[00:59:21] Kyle Coursey: I mean, if I look at the tape- ... it's probably, like, eight or nine.

[00:59:24] Luke Storey: Okay. So imagine I'm going... And again, this isn't to, like, shit on talk therapy. It's, it's not a, we're not-

[00:59:31] Kyle Coursey: No, this is talk therapy.

[00:59:32] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:59:32] Kyle Coursey: This is- A different form.

[00:59:33] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:59:33] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, yeah. Like-

[00:59:34] Luke Storey: But I'm thinking, okay, so say we talk for eight hours, and we really go deep.

[00:59:38] Luke Storey: If that would've been eight weeks, and I go do t- I drive across town for 45 minutes each way, find parking, go sit in a waiting room. Go back into real

[00:59:48] Kyle Coursey: life, deal with real life

[00:59:49] Luke Storey: when you're going there. That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of i- in between, you know, each of those one-hour sessions over the course of eight weeks, I'm getting back in my car, going back to work, going back into [01:00:00] my life.

[01:00:00] Luke Storey: And so it's like how would I expect to really break that- Yeah ... that habituation and to really have the time and space to unpack it? Because then life fills up with more content again, right?

[01:00:12] Kyle Coursey: That's what I mean by top of mind. It just-

[01:00:14] Luke Storey: Yeah ...

[01:00:14] Kyle Coursey: there's

[01:00:14] Luke Storey: more con- there's more

[01:00:16] Kyle Coursey: information and more situations coming in- Right

[01:00:19] Kyle Coursey: that will essentially pull you out of it, or they'll push you right back into your pattern responses like you said.

[01:00:24] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:24] Kyle Coursey: Because, like, we can't do both. We can't process and still live our life and function, right? They're two different states that we need to be in. And to expect a person to take an intellectual concept and change their whole way of being as soon as they leave the session while going back into real life It's a big ask.

[01:00:42] Kyle Coursey: It's a big ask. I don't think it's an efficient ask, you know? And so a part of the way I've structured all these things is like, let's look at how human brains actually work. Let's look at how biology actually works. Let's look at like what is actually effective and how long it's effective for and why it's effective.

[01:00:59] Kyle Coursey: Now [01:01:00] let's play with those levers. Let's actually give ideal circumstances to a person, and let's see what we can accomplish. And so going back to the whole time thing is like, if I give you an unlimited amount of time, w-what could you dig into that you didn't even know was important? And if you can't dig into it, what can I catch in you that might lead down to a pathway where you can actually start to make progress on these belief systems or these experiences?

[01:01:27] Kyle Coursey: And when you say like, what am I doing double-clicking is like sitting from the outside in, like my whole experience is like I don't have the abilities that some of these people have. Like whether they're psychic, whether they can see auras. Like I, I don't, I don't see any of that. I don't have those gifts, right?

[01:01:46] Kyle Coursey: What I do is I allow a person to talk and express themselves and share their story so that I can try to understand as deeply as possible what it's like to walk through the world as them. And so part [01:02:00] of it is my curiosity on the double-clicks, and a part of it is like this felt sense of like there's something more there.

[01:02:07] Kyle Coursey: Let's both explore it. And I think that's the orientation that most people really enjoy is like I'm sitting here as an explorer, explorer of your story with you. I'm not trying to fix you. I'm not trying to point you in a direction. I'm not trying to say like, "This is better for you." I'm saying, "Let's explore that, and let's understand what that does to you."

[01:02:25] Kyle Coursey: All right? And if you say that you wanna change it, let me show you the 40,000-foot view map of where these stories tend to lead and they have for you historically. And let me show you where life might give you a situation where you can actively play out a different story that leads you down a different path that you say that you want.

[01:02:46] Kyle Coursey: And without that, people are just lost in the sauce of the story, right? And it's like, okay, I know I do this, but I have no understanding of what situations can actually change this for me. And so the [01:03:00] exploration, the conversation part becomes the set and setting. Like when we use the word set and setting, it's usually in the, in the psychedelic therapy context, right?

[01:03:08] Kyle Coursey: This whole concept of like, if you take mushrooms at a party, you're probably just gonna have fun with your, with your friends and like dance to music. If you take mushrooms underneath the care of a psychiatrist who's going to then help you try to distill meaning out of them, the setting becomes an exploration or a healing setting.

[01:03:26] Kyle Coursey: And what I like to-- my orientation to this is like, what I try to always sit is in humility, is like, "I don't know what's best for you." Like, I can't sit here and think that I can assume that I understand the sum total of your life by you sharing something with me, right? Let's actually have your inner wisdom do the work.

[01:03:45] Kyle Coursey: Let's give you the ultimate space to share everything you've ever been through and why you believe that. So that creates your set and setting, the structure around these psychedelic experiences that I think are missing. And what happens is, is all their things come to the surface, all [01:04:00] of the stories come out, and they can actually see what's affecting them, why it's affecting them, how it affected them.

[01:04:07] Kyle Coursey: And so then when we move to the table, like they're able to then physically process through these psychological, emotional, sometimes spiritual experiences And I think the, the marrying or the combination of all these things is the thing that leads to the outcomes I see with my clients, is like we just did the thing that all these talk therapies are doing in, uh, a more expanded way that honors the human being and their actual process more than the current dynamic is allowing for.

[01:04:46] Kyle Coursey: And in that you ask like, "What am I doing? What, like, how, what is my experience," right? Um, it's so interesting because like I said, I don't have the abilities that these, these gifted people have. What I'm doing is when I'm watching you [01:05:00] is it's more information to the words you're saying. Like the body language actually shows the, the charge of the experience or the, the truth in it for them or the extremity of it or even the untruth of it.

[01:05:13] Kyle Coursey: Like sometimes I'll see that their body language doesn't match the story they're telling themselves. Oh, right. And so like it, it adds another layer of information for me. It's like showing me like your felt sense of what you intellectualize.

[01:05:27] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:05:27] Kyle Coursey: Does that make sense? So it's, it's more information.

[01:05:30] Kyle Coursey: I'm like picking up on like where is your body moving? But it's also information for me for the session. Like if you're, if you're adjusting constantly or like when you're talking about a certain subject and you're rubbing your shoulder, I can almost guarantee there's a psychosomatic connection there, right?

[01:05:45] Kyle Coursey: When I get you on the table, I'm gonna wanna help you explore that. Like I'm gonna wanna go into your shoulder and try to help you provide the space for you to connect the story that you were talking about with the actual physal- physical location of tension or pain. And [01:06:00] so it's all clues for me. It's all information.

[01:06:03] Kyle Coursey: It's all helping me understand your experience. Like it can even just show me like your experience of that situation in a more layered, more nuanced way that language can't, right? It adds feeling to it. Absolutely. And that's like w- when you ask how I do what I do is, this is something I don't talk about very often but I'll just be direct, is like a part of my process is inhabiting what it feels like to be you and to walk through the world as you, so that when you get on the table it's not me coming through me, it's me reflecting you-

[01:06:37] Luke Storey: Mm.

[01:06:38] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm ...

[01:06:38] Kyle Coursey: in the places that maybe like you haven't connected, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why w- what your felt sense of the me, the medicine, all of it working as an orchestra is because I'm-- one of my gifts is, is I'm really good at putting myself aside and fully living through you without judgment or without assumption, [01:07:00] and just taking everything you've showed me and trying to reflect it back to you as cleanly as possible.

[01:07:07] Kyle Coursey: Um, that's a big part of the process that I don't usually talk about. Uh, but I think it's important. I think it's important as practitioners to leave ourselves aside, you know, as much as possible, because the person doesn't actually need that most times. What I think they need is they, they need a space to truly be with themselves in a clean, uh, environment, to be reflected cleanly, to be held cleanly, to be, you know, cared for and accepted and not fixed, not judged.

[01:07:45] Luke Storey: Quick question for you. If you get a cut, burn, or some kind of skin irritation, what's your first move? Is it alcohol that fries your skin? Peroxide that kills good cells too? Or maybe some petroleum-based ointment that seals everything up and literally [01:08:00] traps what's in there? It blows my mind what we've been trained to put on broken skin.

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[01:08:46] Luke Storey: Go to lukestory.com/skinrepair and use the code Luke at checkout and get a fat 20% off your order. And if you want a deep dive on Active Skin Repair, check out Lifstylist episode 664 at [01:09:00] lukestory.com/skincare. That episode has all of the science, all the data, all the things. You'll love it if you're a geek.

[01:09:06] Luke Storey: Or you can just jump right to it, and believe me when I say you will not regret trying this product. When you're ready to try it for yourself, hit up lukestory.com/skinrepair, and again, that Luke code will save you 20%. So yeah, the question that came to mind was around your ability to hold neutrality. You know, you mentioned a few minutes ago, um, having humility about it, right?

[01:09:32] Luke Storey: And not thinking you know what's best and yada yada. But during the talk session, I think one of the things that helped me to feel really safe was I didn't feel like you had, um, an opinion, you know, or a belief around anything that I was saying or not saying. It's like you're just observing and sometimes saying, "Hey, tell me more about that."

[01:09:58] Luke Storey: "Repeat that thing," right? [01:10:00] But I didn't get the sense that you were trying to steer me in any direction necessarily- Mm ... and that the floor was really open. So you have a really uncanny ability to create a safe space I think it's the lack of judgment, it's the lack of you, yeah, having, um, a preconceived idea about what I'm supposed to be saying or sharing or not.

[01:10:26] Luke Storey: It's like you're, you're just very open. So I guess the question is, how do you-- how did you develop or how do you maintain that kind of neutrality where you're st- you're staying out of your mind's stories while someone's telling their story? I mean, that's the sense I get anyway.

[01:10:44] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, it is.

[01:10:46] Luke Storey: There's like a real, um, acute presence, I guess, is what I'm going for, yeah.

[01:10:51] Kyle Coursey: I think it's a mix of different things, right? Like, I think that's kind of who I am. Like, so that, that might be one of my [01:11:00] natural gifts, right? I think another important factor is curiosity and not assuming or just projecting what the, the situation would be, but actual, like, exploration. Like, one of my deeper things ever since I could remember of being a kid is like, what is it like to walk through the world in somebody else's shoes?

[01:11:24] Kyle Coursey: What is it like to see the world through somebody else's eyes, right? And if you come from that context, you kinda leave yourself behind so that you can truly experience and inhabit the person's, like, their expression or their feelings or their, their experience. Um, there's another part of it that, like, I mean, I've made so many mistakes in my life.

[01:11:47] Kyle Coursey: I'm so damaged. I'm so imperfect. I'm so flawed. Like, who am I to judge this, you know? And if more often than not, I can actually resonate with the person, you know, no matter how distorted, how messed [01:12:00] up their, their experience or situations or things that have happened to them. Like, I know what pain feels like.

[01:12:06] Kyle Coursey: I've held pain for a long time, you know? And I think human nature is, is asking to be seen more than anything, you know? To be seen in its-- in, in all of it, in, in the messy and the beautiful. Like, to disacknowledge the messy parts or to, like, want to fix them or, or change them about somebody else, I think is a, is a huge dishonoring of the whole of them, you know?

[01:12:34] Kyle Coursey: And so I just try to s- not try. It's not even hard for me. It's just, like, where I orient from, right? And so I'm glad it comes through. I'm glad it, you know, came through with you. It's because that's where I actually sit on these things.

[01:12:49] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:12:50] Kyle Coursey: So I guess a little bit of essence, a little bit of a lot of mistakes on my own part, a lot of understanding, um, a lot of curiosity.[01:13:00]

[01:13:00] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, I would say that's...

[01:13:02] Luke Storey: Let's talk about, um... Why it's so difficult for some of us to receive? Mm. You know, 'cause a lot of what you do seems to be oriented around I don't know if training someone is the right word, but allowing someone to have the experience of an unlimited reception of love and attention and care.

[01:13:26] Luke Storey: Yeah. You know, the time, the taking time out of the equation- Yeah ... as you've, as you've, uh, talked about is a huge part of that. And I, I even found, even though you reiterated that to me so many times. I mean, even when we were doing the talking portion, I'm like, "Ah, you know, I'm probably taking too long. I need to wrap this up."

[01:13:44] Luke Storey: You know, just that ... It's just how li- it's how life is generally, right? Yeah. It's like you're never given enough time and space, and so it feels, I don't know, it's, it's a little uncomfortable to be given that space because we're just not [01:14:00] used to it. And even in the, in the physical part of it, I mean, because we talked about it so much, I- But I kept having to remind myself, like, "No, he's fine.

[01:14:08] Luke Storey: Stop being codependent." "Don't worry about him. He told you, Luke, you go as long as you need to go." And then it was really beautiful when it, when I think it was time to wrap up, it just, it, it felt clear to me that I was complete in that moment. I sat up to drink some water, and I was like, "Yeah, I think, I think I'm good."

[01:14:25] Luke Storey: As much as I wanted to keep going, it felt like my body, my intuition said, "Okay, for this one, this is enough." But it thankfully wasn't because I was like, "Oh, he's probably tired or bored," or-

[01:14:37] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[01:14:37] Luke Storey: you know. I was trying to stay out of your experience and just receive. But it, it was challenging even though you gave me so much, so many prompts that that's what it's all about.

[01:14:47] Luke Storey: So why, why is, why is it so difficult for human beings to just take time for ourselves and allow, uh, allow ourselves to be cared for in that way? [01:15:00] I don't think it's innately that way, and that's

[01:15:02] Kyle Coursey: one of the reasons I'm doing things in the way that I'm doing them, is to remind them that, like, you weren't always like that.

[01:15:08] Kyle Coursey: There was a time when you could receive. Like, you look at children, they'll receive endlessly, right? At some point in our life, something happens or a story gets created that says we need to be aware of this or mindful of this, or there's a certain amount of balance, or there's, like, an energy dynamic behind it.

[01:15:26] Kyle Coursey: Or most times it's I'm not worthy that gets created, right? And that's actually a backdoor I'm trying to work through, um, by giving somebody so much attention, care, like, and, uh, having them receive for so long, right? Is what it shows me a lot of times is there's a hole in self-worth, right? And so why is it hard for humans to receive so much?

[01:15:52] Kyle Coursey: Usually because there's a story there that they're not worthy of it in some form or another. And you'll have all different ... It's so [01:16:00] nuanced between individuals, and that's why I have them share their whole story, 'cause I need to understand where those holes are and what the stories that are supporting that so I can, uh, actively Contradict them through touch, through care, through saying things.

[01:16:17] Kyle Coursey: And yeah, like I said, like, at some point or another, we all pick up this thing that, like, we're, we're not worthy of this much or, you know? And it, it just shows me where the, the holes of self-love are and the h- the holes of self-worth are. And a part of what I'm trying to do is, like, provide a situation where they get an experience where they can receive it with a positive outcome so that they can actually-- Like, going back to the fill up your cup, like, kind of analogy, right?

[01:16:50] Kyle Coursey: Like, what I'm hoping to remind a person is they actually needed more care, more attention, more love, more nurturing than they've been surviving with. [01:17:00]

[01:17:00] Luke Storey: Totally.

[01:17:00] Kyle Coursey: And that's, like-

[01:17:01] Luke Storey: Totally ...

[01:17:02] Kyle Coursey: a thing I'm really trying to d- drive deep on the back end, is how little gas they were running their car on, and how much better it feels when you have a tank full of just love and self-worth.

[01:17:17] Kyle Coursey: And what it'll actively do is usually it'll so subtly change the way they engage with themselves and with life, and they'll start doing more things that prompt or provide situations to show them the opposite of what they've been doing the whole time, and where they've been doing so little for themselves or where they've allowed so little care for themselves.

[01:17:45] Kyle Coursey: And so it's a direct experience of what I call an alternative reality than the one that they've been living in, which makes them then assess, usually in real time after [01:18:00] the session, of, like, where they're still doing it. Or like, like you said something to me in the other podcast of like, "Oh, shit," like, "There, there's so many places in my life where I could give myself more love that I haven't," right?

[01:18:14] Kyle Coursey: And every situation will now spark the, like, kind of circumstance for you to measure that against. And so when I create those situations or I create that extended saturation in a time of receiving, like, it really does change the, the thermostat, the internal thermostat of what they actually need and what they actually would benefit from.

[01:18:39] Kyle Coursey: Is this- Yeah ... is this answering your question? Yeah,

[01:18:41] Luke Storey: 100%.

[01:18:42] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:18:43] Luke Storey: One of the things that was a huge realization for me, and one that has really carried over into, you know, daily life after that, was around, um, just what [01:19:00] low standards I've allowed myself to have Yeah and the shit that I'm willing to tolerate from other people or situations I get in personally or in business.

[01:19:09] Luke Storey: And I remember so many times, I mean, thankfully I wasn't crying about it, I was just laughing at myself like, "Dude, oh my God, the subpar shit you put up with is insane." Yeah. Just thinking about all these situations in my past, and even at that time, my current life, and at the root of it really was totally subconscious up until that point, but just that's as good as I deserve

[01:19:35] Kyle Coursey: So that's the part, the subconscious

[01:19:37] Luke Storey: part.

[01:19:37] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:19:38] Kyle Coursey: It's so wild to me, and that's what the double clicks are for.

[01:19:41] Luke Storey: Right.

[01:19:41] Kyle Coursey: Is they, they helped you connect the subconscious operating system to the belief system so that it can become conscious, so you can see it play out in your reality. And like, just like you said just now, it's like, holy shit, like, how many places do I accept subpar, [01:20:00] like, quality of life and, and why?

[01:20:04] Kyle Coursey: Why? And I think that's going back to like, why is it so hard for, for humans to receive that much? 'Cause it directly contradicts the story that they've built their whole life around, all their belief systems, all their operating systems, all, like, everything. So, like, to accept it is to almost knowingly break down the castle they've built to protect themselves, and that's overwhelming for a lot of people.

[01:20:32] Kyle Coursey: And so there's almost this subconscious push away 'cause knowingly it threatens the, the structures they've built to survive.

[01:20:39] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is this- Mm-hmm ... is this hitting for you? How often do you have clients try to end the talk early or, you know, get off the table for the somatic aspect of the experience early?

[01:20:53] Luke Storey: Do you have people that you have to, like, encourage, like, "No, hey, you can keep going"? Do people, like, pull the plug from that place of not [01:21:00] deserving that much time and, and attention?

[01:21:01] Kyle Coursey: It's happened before, but you'd be shocked at how little it happens knowing what I just said.

[01:21:07] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:21:07] Kyle Coursey: Right? And that goes back to that, like...

[01:21:10] Kyle Coursey: So, like, I used this term in the last podcast we did to get the seed of doubt, right? Like, what I'm trying to do is create an environment to push a person back to the knowing before that seed of doubt was planted, that I'm not worthy of love or I'm damaged or I'm broken or I'm inherently flawed, right?

[01:21:34] Kyle Coursey: And when a person-- when I can get a person to receive, they, like, they actually... What happens most times is they, they don't push it away because they're so quenched. They have such a thirst for care and nurturing that they, they weren't able to either articulate or acknowledge to themselves that most times they, they just sit back [01:22:00] and, like, take it for as long as they can get it

[01:22:03] Luke Storey: Oh, wow.

[01:22:04] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And that's not to say it doesn't come up, but very few actually try to stop it.

[01:22:09] Luke Storey: Mm.

[01:22:09] Kyle Coursey: So like most people will get what you got, and that's why I try to warn people beforehand. They're like, "There's gonna come this time when you're gonna wanna like try to do something for me," or you're gonna like think like, "Oh, is he okay?"

[01:22:20] Kyle Coursey: Like, "Oh, I should probably end this because like he's probably tired," you know? But more people than not experience that, but very few have actually tried to stop the session. The only time the session usually gets stopped before I finish is if they are actually, like you said, complete, like when what happened with you.

[01:22:39] Kyle Coursey: Like when you're complete, and this is something I try to explain to everybody before the session, is like there is no expected outcome. You'll know if you need more. You'll know if you're done. You'll know, and all you have to do is honor that. Like, I don't know if you remember that part, but I told you like anything that comes up, [01:23:00] anything that you need to do, like what I'm trying to provide a person a space for is to acknowledge and honor all of their needs, all, all their intuitive hits, right?

[01:23:09] Kyle Coursey: And so what I'll usually do is I'll just keep going until they're either complete themselves, I'm done, or they are at a capacity threshold, because there's another concept in this work and it like kind of leads to trauma therapy, like more is not always better, right? And so you have to-- What I'm really paying attention to during these sessions is like the capacity of a person and what they can actually withstand in a single session.

[01:23:38] Kyle Coursey: I'm always trying to push the limits on that, um, going back to that concept of like saturation, right?

[01:23:45] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:23:45] Kyle Coursey: But there is, there is a part that you can hit with some people, not everybody, it's a very few amount of people, but where it can become oversaturation or overextension.

[01:23:56] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:23:56] Kyle Coursey: Right?

[01:23:56] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:23:57] Kyle Coursey: And that's what I loved so much about you and your [01:24:00] session is like you intuitively got the hit and you're like, "This is where it ends," you know?

[01:24:05] Kyle Coursey: And like that's-

[01:24:05] Luke Storey: You, you know why I think it was-- I mean, there's probably a number of reasons, but It was interesting the way, you know, we, we talked for a very long time, and then before we started the physical portion, you know, you kind of interviewed me about, um, what medicine I felt like I wanted to work with, if I did, what my past experience was with that, and so on.

[01:24:31] Luke Storey: Yeah. And also just to be clear for people listening, um, 'cause you didn't state this expressly, like you don't give people psychedelics. Yeah. So I just, I want that to be clear.

[01:24:38] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. I, I want that to be very clear to people as well. Yeah. So I don't administer or provide, and very rarely do I allow a person to do it.

[01:24:46] Kyle Coursey: It's only under the conditions that they have a lot of experience with it. They've done a lot of work in all these other realms.

[01:24:54] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:24:55] Kyle Coursey: And even in those cases, I will never provide and [01:25:00] I will never administer. I, I just can't legally- Yeah ... and liability wise.

[01:25:04] Luke Storey: 100%. I think that's super smart.

[01:25:06] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:25:07] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah. I w- I mean, I've told this story a bunch of times, but when I've had really profound experiences, uh, in the plant medicine space It's pretty common that I think I need to facilitate when I'm in it.

[01:25:21] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? Like, I'm having such an amazing experience. I need to do this for people.

[01:25:25] Kyle Coursey: Yeah,

[01:25:25] Luke Storey: yeah, yeah. And then of course, the next day I'm like, "Dude, you're not qualified." You know? I mean, I feel like if I, if I did feel that was my life calling, then I, I would really have to commit myself to it for a very long time- Yeah

[01:25:36] Luke Storey: um, as a facilitator and trainee and whatever that would take, right? So- Yeah ... I come back to reality and humility very quickly on that. But, um, what I was getting to, why I felt like it was the end, it was really interesting 'cause we had that talk and, uh, I said, "Yeah, I wanna, I wanna take some mushrooms.

[01:25:52] Luke Storey: This is how much, and a little heart opener," and I was very familiar with that stack. I kind of know what to expect, and I felt like it would be the [01:26:00] optimal, you know, uh, particular ally to work with. And so I went in the other room, took a hot shower as you recommended after I, I ate some of the medicine, and, um, and then it just...

[01:26:11] Luke Storey: The second I got on the table, it hit. It was so interesting. It came on really fast, and then we were there for a number of hours and, uh, you know, I was having a really deep experience within that that was beautiful and amazing and really comfortable and safe and amazing and fun, and it was just perfect.

[01:26:31] Luke Storey: Um, my friend that formulated those particular mushroom truffles, who will remain unnamed for, uh- ... legal purposes. But I had texted him beforehand like, "Hey, I'm about to do this thing. What do you recommend?" He said, "Well, I'd recommend this one and take this much," and so I followed his, you know, his kind of prescription, I guess you could say.

[01:26:48] Kyle Coursey: Mm.

[01:26:48] Luke Storey: But what was interesting is when it, when it ended, it ended very abruptly. And so when I sat up and I was like, "I think I'm thirsty," and my back was kinda hurting from being in the position I was in, and when I [01:27:00] sat up, I was like, "I'm sober," you know? It like wore off like that. And so that was the point I said, "I think I'm complete."

[01:27:07] Luke Storey: I didn't feel like I wanted to go back into the depths because I came out and was kind of, "Oh, you know, I'm just... I'm back," right?

[01:27:13] Kyle Coursey: Yep.

[01:27:14] Luke Storey: So I feel like It would've been a stretch for me to keep going. I feel like I would've had to take some more mushrooms- Mm ... and then go back in. But that's like-

[01:27:23] Kyle Coursey: Why? It becomes why.

[01:27:24] Luke Storey: Yeah. With everything.

[01:27:25] Kyle Coursey: It's like- Yeah ... you can, you can play into these worlds infinitely, and I see some people in the medicine world just continually go back in, and it's like, but why? Right? Like, bring the signal back, end where you're, like, complete- Yes ... and integrate that. Just drive the... 'Cause there's enough information in any session.

[01:27:44] Luke Storey: Oh my

[01:27:45] Kyle Coursey: God. Too much sometimes, right? And so like- Yeah ... that's why, like, I'm so heavy on the integration side or like, like you said, like, I'm complete. Like, yeah, I could go back in, but like e- for what? Like, there's gonna be diminishing returns at some [01:28:00] point.

[01:28:00] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:28:00] Kyle Coursey: Right? Yeah. And it's like, I love when people end on a positive note.

[01:28:04] Kyle Coursey: Like, that's another actual, like, the arc of my sessions, right? Like, I- I'll end them on a more nurturing, loving note, and because, like, the, the place you leave a person in when they're complete tends to more often than not provide a continued experience of positivity and a felt sense of a different experience than the one they went in with, which is usually struggling or pain or sadness, right?

[01:28:34] Kyle Coursey: And to leave them in that kind of like neurochemical hormonal soup or that experiential like pleasure, right? Like I f- I find it far more beneficial to the outcomes than continuing to take somebody into the depth all the way till the very end.

[01:28:51] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:28:52] Kyle Coursey: And it's just like-- And that becomes this whole saturation concept of like playing with neurochemical hormonal [01:29:00] profiles for extended durations so that we can interrupt what is usually kind of like the background chemical environment.

[01:29:11] Kyle Coursey: But yeah, like I love the fact that you called it where it was on a positive note with completion, and I find it always so interesting when people tell me these things. It's like the medicine hits faster, it hits harder. Like people usually have to take half the dose of what they usually take when they do these things.

[01:29:29] Kyle Coursey: And a part of it, I believe, is because the, the talk session is so deep, right? You're accessing so many more layers, and on the back end you're subtly like untangling the energetics that the medicine is doing as well, so the-- it doesn't take as much medicine to make you feel the effects because a lot of the subtle energetics have been more aligned-

[01:29:53] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:29:53] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ... through the narrative part.

[01:29:55] Luke Storey: There's like a heightened sensitivity and receptivity.

[01:29:58] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. A very [01:30:00] heightened sense- Mm-hmm ... of receptivity- Yeah ... and sensitivity. And then usually on the end too, it's like, it's like you said, like some people will get up like, and they'll think they'll be fully like still in the medicine, and they'll get up and they'll realize like, "Wait, I'm sober."

[01:30:17] Kyle Coursey: And so what part is medicine and what part is what I'm doing? Right. And what part is the chemical cocktail of the, the neurochemicals and the hormones that you're feeling? And that's like where I think the intersection becomes super fun to play in for practitioners is like there's this belief system from some people that like we have all the neurochemicals and all the things that create these psychedelic experiences, right?

[01:30:44] Kyle Coursey: We have the ability to release them in ourselves under certain conditions. And so that's one thing I've been always trying to build, uh, in my work is how do I encourage the release of these neurochemicals or these hormones that like [01:31:00] contribute to these altered states. And so that's why, like, some people don't even do it with medicine.

[01:31:06] Kyle Coursey: Like, I've had people not do any medicine and have full psychedelic experiences, like extreme psychedelic experience where they're traveling different worlds or meeting their spirit selves, you know? And that goes back to that concept is like when we can release the neurochemicals and the hormones that contribute to these states, we become our own empowerment, like our own neurochemistry factory.

[01:31:30] Kyle Coursey: And if I can consistently keep you in that state long enough The system starts to remember that it has fluidity through these states, and that's like where the neuroplastic window comes in, not only from the psychological side, but from the somatic side. It's like if I can keep these hormones and neurochemicals circulating long enough, it takes you out of more of the fight or flight chemical cocktail and puts you into the [01:32:00] more kind of like rest and beauty profile.

[01:32:03] Kyle Coursey: And what happens from there, and serotonin has a lot to do with this, but when you have things like serotonin and oxytoci- oxytocin circulating heavily, it, it becomes more of this felt experience state of like pot- like unlimited possibilities, access to a lot more information, a lot more perspective.

[01:32:24] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:32:25] Kyle Coursey: And that's what I mean by creating the somatic side that resembles the psychological side of what we're trying to do in these, like, modalities or therapies, is if I can create the physical experience that has the neurochemical ingredients to shift the perspective and solidify it, like what a beautiful thing.

[01:32:46] Kyle Coursey: What if I could give somebody the physical experience that actually contributes to a psychological sp- perspective shift if they can't make it psychologically? And then when the two are [01:33:00] working together, then you have the context, you have the, the set and setting, you have the unconscious and conscious material, then you have the neurochem- chemical states that support actually rewiring the neural connections that keep these things available to you, or at the very least, make it more likely that you'll believe them and sustain them.

[01:33:23] Kyle Coursey: Because most people have these, uh, psychological experiences where they'll have these upper level perspectives, and then they'll get a felt sense that disagrees with it- Yeah ... or doesn't match

[01:33:35] Luke Storey: it. Yeah. Totally, like doing affirmations or manifestation work. Right. Right? It's like, "Oh, I want this dream," but there's a subconscious part of you that's like probably living in all layers from your auric field down to your bones- Yeah

[01:33:49] Luke Storey: that doesn't believe it.

[01:33:50] Kyle Coursey: Doesn't believe it, and can't hold- Yeah ... this is the perfect segue into the actual physical structure part of another thing I'm trying to do physically, is going back to that analogy [01:34:00] is like If you've had intellectual jumps in consciousness or spiritual, like evolution, if you've done a lot of that work, like is the physical structure creating an environment to support that as efficiently and effectively as possible?

[01:34:18] Kyle Coursey: And like that's where you start to get into like all the cool things that they're learning with fascia. And fascia is like a conductor, and fascia is like a storage and communication system, an antenna. And like they're even starting to pull back layers like where they're starting to speculate, and they may have proven this, I, I'm not quite sure, but the fascia kind of encompasses everything, right?

[01:34:42] Kyle Coursey: And so when you're talking about things like meridians or chakras, and it also is a d- like some people see it as a bridge between your energetic and spiritual, like in- uh, intelligence and the actual like human denser like [01:35:00] innate intelligence. And when it's working properly and it's unrestricted, it's able to communicate and hold these connections a lot better.

[01:35:10] Kyle Coursey: And so if we can create a lot more fluidity in the actual physical structure, can we then, going back to the Shipibo belief system of like singing a person's song back into harmony. Like if you start to look at all of their artwork, right, it's all these like patterns. And like I think a part of that goes to cymatics, right?

[01:35:33] Kyle Coursey: Or this concept of sound effects structure, whether it's sand, whether it's water, like thoughts and belief systems can actually structure different kind of, uh, geometric shapes.

[01:35:44] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:35:45] Kyle Coursey: And so if we've been living in this soup of like negative thoughts or fear or shame or guilt, it starts to translate because we're-- the, the content of our body is highly water, and water's really susceptible to the, the actual energies and the belief [01:36:00] systems, and then the, the actual things that are put in.

[01:36:03] Kyle Coursey: And how I look at it is it starts to structure it in a way that might perpetuate or, or contribute to these denser or negative belief systems. And so when I'm trying to work through the body, I'm actually trying to do what, like the medicine actually shows you is like everything is kind of like patterns, and the more structured and the more coherent the pattern is or more complex the pattern is, the more it can sustain on the psychological, emotional, sp- spiritual side.

[01:36:35] Kyle Coursey: And so it becomes this back and forth loop where the mind can actually taint the structure of the physical systems, but I can also backdoor into the physical systems to clear up and clean up the structural side so that it can sustain or even sometimes change the actual perspective and belief systems.

[01:36:57] Kyle Coursey: And it becomes this fun area to play [01:37:00] in, um, that I think a lot more people are starting to understand, and it's, it's the profundity of it. But to then try to work on the body for as long as possible to try to create as much coherence to the, the physiological systems and the systems that house Basically the, the whole human experience, you know?

[01:37:24] Kyle Coursey: And like that's one thing I say is like, like if you're here, you're still human, right? And the human system, the human experience has to be honored to its, its totality. And so how do we take the body and help a person come back into balance in all their physical symptoms, systems to support the homeostasis or the coherence of both, of the energetic, psychological, spiritual experience?

[01:37:50] Kyle Coursey: So going back to this whole concept of like how my sessions look and what I'm doing is we kind of ended off on the talk portion and why I'm doing what I'm doing on the talk [01:38:00] portion, right? And a lot of that plays into, to elucidating, um, the, for lack of a better term, distortions that are being caused by the mind, the belief systems, the narratives, their experiences.

[01:38:14] Kyle Coursey: And then to get a person on the table, the next step is usually what you said, is like if they're gonna take psychedelics, we'll have a conversation about what they're gonna take, why they're gonna take it, where it takes them, how it's gonna help, 'cause I won't let anybody take anything to take them out of their experience.

[01:38:32] Kyle Coursey: The, the medicine or the substance has to take them more deeply in or contribute to the work that we're doing. It has to be aligned with where they say they wanna go. Then I'll usually have the person, whether they're doing that or not, take a nice hot shower. And going back to like the energetics of it, um, to, to use water to like wash off kind of like more of the layers of like the story that we've been holding, but also to put some heat into the body, 'cause we've been sitting for a long time [01:39:00] at that point.

[01:39:02] Kyle Coursey: Um, and to be like a beautiful transition point, right? To like stepping on the table. And then the second half is they'll typically come down and get on the massage table. It's a massage table. And we'll do-- I'll do body work on them for as long as their system can handle until I complete the whole body or until they're complete.

[01:39:24] Kyle Coursey: And that's going back to the same theme as why I like to talk with the, uh, unlimited time format, is as body workers, like I see a lot of like- of the same thing as the s- the psychotherapy world is these structured time formats where you can only attend to so much, and it's not their fault, it's the way the system is structured, right?

[01:39:50] Kyle Coursey: But to work with the body is, in my opinion, my orientation to it is to explore and listen [01:40:00] instead of, like, try to alter or manipulate, right? It's to support it in its process, 'cause it knows how to go back to homeostasis. It just needs help sometimes. And so that process is, is-- it's a delicate process in the way of, like, if you push too hard too fast, you create a whole different neurochemical profile and a whole different response system in the person.

[01:40:24] Kyle Coursey: And so I like to leave it in unlimited time format so I can explore the whole body. And being that fascia is literally interconnected to every part of you and runs through the, the completion of your body is like, it doesn't stop in one section. It doesn't, it doesn't end, right? It's just up and down, back and forth, interconnected with everything.

[01:40:46] Kyle Coursey: And so the way I, I interact with fascia is in a continuous way and creating an environment where I can touch every part of the human [01:41:00] being in order to help support it coming back into its most ideal state, its most coherent state. And in that process, usually what's happening too is that the neurochemicals or the hormones that are being released are supportive in the process as a whole of what we're trying to do And time under tension, again, is creating an extended duration, just saturation of these positive, beautiful neurochemical hormonal experiences with the felt experience of being touched and cared for and having every part of our body, like touched and nurtured and, and loved and worked on is like the subjective experience is extreme level of care.

[01:41:52] Kyle Coursey: And that's, I think, the felt sense that like I can access through touch that most talk approaches don't, is there's something [01:42:00] about touch to the human being that conveys care.

[01:42:04] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:42:04] Kyle Coursey: And it bypasses, it bypasses the human mind, and it goes deep into the limbic centers, and it, it connects us to subconscious belief systems.

[01:42:13] Kyle Coursey: It connects us to our stories. It connects us to our needs. It connects us to our pain. It connects us to beauty and connection. Um, and I think those parts are-- I'm leveraging really heavily intentionally, because going back to this modern construct, I think, I think the two worlds are separated, body and mind, right?

[01:42:33] Kyle Coursey: And I don't think they can actually be separated. I don't think any of the systems can be separated. I think they're all just these interconnected, interdependent systems. And to touch somebody, it creates a felt experience that moves belong-- beyond intellectualism and usually has that felt sense that I'm trying to get a person to And so [01:43:00] the amount of care and nurturing that comes through in that steeps a person in the felt sense of that and kind of brings them back to that place where we're talking about of, like, realizing, like, how little they've actually had through their life and how much more they actually need and how good it feels to just be, like, cared for on a deep level without a timeframe, without a reciprocation clause, without, like, this-- without all the constructs of, of normal, like, cultural or social, like, situations, and to just receive, to receive.

[01:43:38] Luke Storey: It, it takes you out of a transactional-

[01:43:42] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[01:43:42] Luke Storey: framework too.

[01:43:43] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:43:44] Luke Storey: Right? I mean, you're getting paid- Yeah ... but then, like-

[01:43:46] Kyle Coursey: There's nothing else on the-

[01:43:47] Luke Storey: Yeah, that's already- There's no

[01:43:48] Kyle Coursey: emotional

[01:43:48] Luke Storey: cost ... that's already happened. Yep. So you're, you're, you're not laying there like, "This is gonna be another 500 bucks if I keep going- Yeah

[01:43:54] Luke Storey: overtime," or something like that, right? Yeah. It's just like- Or I must have helped the- We've settled the tran- the transaction is [01:44:00] complete, right? Yeah. It's like, okay, that part's done, and what me as the client, in this case, paid for was an unlimited amount of time for this kind of care.

[01:44:08] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:44:09] Luke Storey: You know? Again, it's hard to adhere to that i- in some cases.

[01:44:14] Luke Storey: Yeah. You know, there's... Resistance will come up, and I had to remind myself, "No, no, no, he said whenever," you know?

[01:44:19] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:44:19] Luke Storey: But that, that's a really important thing. One thing that comes to mind too, as you just unpacked all of that so beautifully, is, and you've probably thought of this before, but it just became so clear to me, is the analogy of hardware and software, right?

[01:44:33] Luke Storey: Yeah. I'm thinking about, as you're talking, I'm thinking about my computer, and every few years, I have to get a new Mac, right? Yeah. Because it just's too slow. It's not up to speed. Yep. The software is not compatible anymore. But I could have a new machine with old software, it won't function properly. Yep.

[01:44:50] Luke Storey: And conversely, the other way around too. I could- Or it'll

[01:44:52] Kyle Coursey: work slower. It'll work inefficiently.

[01:44:54] Luke Storey: Well, no, it, and, and, and in that incongruence of the software and hardware not [01:45:00] being updated, uh, together- It drains energy.

[01:45:05] Kyle Coursey: Yeah

[01:45:05] Luke Storey: Right? You're-- It's wasting energy

[01:45:07] Kyle Coursey: A lot

[01:45:07] Luke Storey: of energy Like the user's energy and, and energy of the whole system is being kind of bled out, for lack of a better term, because of the, the...

[01:45:16] Luke Storey: It's like a, um- Inefficiency ...

[01:45:19] Kyle Coursey: inefficiency.

[01:45:19] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:45:20] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. That's what most people don't expect on the, the outcome of this is they're like, "I just, I didn't realize how much energy I was utilizing to either maintain these stories, this dysfunction," or even structurally. When your body's, like, in a state of inefficiency, the amount of energy it takes to, uh, adapt to that or to sustain that out of balance is, is exponentially more than it does is if it's efficiently structured.

[01:45:52] Kyle Coursey: And so both the mind and the body are usually leaking- Yeah ... an immense amount of energy.

[01:45:56] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:45:57] Kyle Coursey: And so people on the outcomes of these are just like, "I have [01:46:00] so much more energy. I have so much more enthusiasm. I have so much more joy. I have so much more excitement. I have so much more..." Because the energy isn't being used for inefficiencies.

[01:46:09] Kyle Coursey: It's not being used to maintain stories that were never meant to be maintained, like, that don't actually align with your integrity or your actual version of yourself.

[01:46:19] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:46:20] Kyle Coursey: And so it's like going back to this, even the computer analogy is interesting because what they're starting to, uh, like, elucidate now is that we thought of the mind as like the computer, right?

[01:46:32] Kyle Coursey: But what they're actually starting to find out is that the body has, like, a greater adeptness and intelligence and neural actual input than the mind does. And so what if, what if it was the reverse the whole time? Like, what if-

[01:46:48] Luke Storey: Hmm.

[01:46:49] Kyle Coursey: Interesting ... what if the, the mind is actually doing, like, more of the programs and the, the operational systems, but it's being fed and [01:47:00] confirmed by the actual body and the hardware?

[01:47:04] Kyle Coursey: You know? And so that's where I like to play in both realms, too, and that's, I think, what-- I think where the, the industry is heading is a deeper understanding of what's going on between the body and mind and how important the body actually is and how it's, it's, in and of itself, it's its own brain that's more likely greater in capacity to its role and function than the actual mind.

[01:47:27] Luke Storey: Wow.

[01:47:28] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And so, like- Wow ... there's some people that they'll go as far as to say that, like, the soul is actually housed in the fascia And like if you look at water as a s- memory storage device and a communication system, it, and a bridge to both worlds, it like starts to make sense. And like if you look at what happens after death or under anesthesia, like what happens to the fascia, then it becomes a very interesting- What happens?

[01:47:56] Kyle Coursey: It usually collapses or becomes more stiff and more rigid- [01:48:00]

[01:48:00] Luke Storey: Ah ...

[01:48:00] Kyle Coursey: and unflowing. And so like this is where like the speculation part comes in, and I just wanna be clear, this isn't confirmed, but this is like what people are starting to point at is like, huh, like where is the actual housing for this, for the soul?

[01:48:14] Kyle Coursey: Like where does it actually reside? And the only part of the human body that actually touches everything and communicates with everything is the fascia. And so how important is that in our experience, in our subjective experience? And this is why I play so heavily in the body and use it as kind of a backdoor, right?

[01:48:35] Kyle Coursey: Like people downplay its act- actual effectiveness in making intellectual, psychological, and spiritual, uh, leaps in understanding. And when I create an environment, it's in a way that will help a person experience that firsthand instead of intellectualize it, so that they can have a felt sense and [01:49:00] conceptualize it to a, to a greater degree.

[01:49:02] Kyle Coursey: And I think this conceptualization part plays a big piece because we can only go as far in our understanding of things as what we can actually conceptualize or imagine. And so the felt sense then takes them almost into like a different experience that helps them frame a deeper understanding of, of things that are going on so that they can expand their perception.

[01:49:32] Luke Storey: In my mid-50s here, I've reached a point where I'm not trying to do more for my health. I'm all about doing less, but doing it better. The thing is, stacking supplements and protocols only gets you so far if your body never actually resets. That's why I lean hard into infrared sauna therapy. I've been doing it for, God, almost 30 years now.

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[01:51:06] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[01:51:06] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Uh, talk to me about two things, the breath- Mm ... which

[01:51:13] Kyle Coursey: I

[01:51:13] Luke Storey: kind of forgot about, I think just because the experience is so full on

[01:51:18] Kyle Coursey: and

[01:51:18] Luke Storey: immersive and also because of the medicine, you know.

[01:51:22] Luke Storey: So you're like, "Breathe this way." You know, there were different times where you would cue breath. One-- And one thing I remember about that was there'd be more of a, you know, more a little bit more of a, um, exertion or aggressive breath when you were, like, really getting in there. Yeah. And then I don't think-- I don't know if you told me to do this or I just intuited to do it, but when we were doing the kind of some of the, the deeper work that, you know, could be really uncomfortable or painful, um, and then I would be doing the heavy breathing, I would do this long exhale, and that's when I was like, "Ah, get out of me."

[01:51:57] Luke Storey: You know, it's like I was just [01:52:00] pushing all this bogus energy out. Then I would hold my breath on the exhale, you know, because like many people have done all kinds of different breathwork, and so I think it was just-- it, it was kind of innate just because I've done that in various practices. But when I would hold those exhales after a really deep little few moments, I-- that's when I would go into this really wild space where it's like A lot of the kind of bells and whistles, the light show of the, the mushroom part of the experience would subside, and I would just go into this zshew.

[01:52:36] Luke Storey: This, like, zero point-

[01:52:38] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm ...

[01:52:38] Luke Storey: of stillness where everything would kind of clear out, and it just became very empty. And those were some of the most profound moments where I felt like I was really getting to the core, the essence of my soul.

[01:52:53] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[01:52:54] Luke Storey: You know? And because so much of... We haven't talked that much about this aspect of self-love in this conversation.

[01:52:59] Luke Storey: [01:53:00] We'll link to the one we did with Cal, um, at lukestore.com/kyle is the show notes for this, by the way, guys. And we talked a lot about shame and self-love in that conversation, so I don't wanna open that up and be here for another four hours. But those exhale holds are the moments when I really saw myself for who and what I am in a very clear way, and those were the, I think, the biggest breakthroughs in terms of seeing how little appreciation and love I have for myself.

[01:53:33] Luke Storey: So I was able to get to that guy, the real me- Mm-hmm ... in those moments. So that's one, is the, um... And you can just speak to this however. How does the breath play into it? And then the other one was, um, it was really interesting for me, is really working with my relationship to physical pain.

[01:53:52] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:53:53] Luke Storey: And I felt, um...

[01:53:54] Luke Storey: I mean, I've never experienced anything like that, where, [01:54:00] uh, it's like I was communicating and talking to the pain, the phenomenon of pain, and really, like, going into the center of it. Um, it's kind of hard, it's hard to describe, but it's like W- w- so much of my life has been the avoidance of pain, right?

[01:54:18] Kyle Coursey: That's-- So there's-

[01:54:18] Luke Storey: And so-

[01:54:19] Kyle Coursey: That's everything, right?

[01:54:20] Luke Storey: That- Yeah. So it's like, "Ooh, this is getting really deep. Can I take this? Breathe, breathe, breathe." And I'm like, "You can do this. You can do this." But then it became more not just talking to myself and, like, coaching myself through it with, like, um, you know, gritting my teeth through it.

[01:54:34] Luke Storey: It was like, "Actually, let me surrender to this pain." Yeah. And it started to become this relationship of- Yeah ... gratitude with pain. Yeah. And I became so thankful that my body has the capacity to give me those signals.

[01:54:47] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[01:54:47] Luke Storey: And then started communicating with it and saying, "Hey," I'm like, "I get it, and thank you, but you don't need to keep giving me these signals all the time when there's no reason."

[01:54:56] Luke Storey: Right? Just my back pain or whatever it is. So-

[01:54:58] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm ...

[01:54:59] Luke Storey: yeah, so the [01:55:00] breath and the relationship with pain, and also the third thing was, I know this might be a lot to remember, so just, you know, take it how you wanna take it from here. But it was also I thought, "Man, I don't know if I would be able to go this deep into the relationship with pain if I hadn't taken some mushrooms."

[01:55:18] Luke Storey: Like, I feel like I would've, you know, uh, pulled the plug at many points where it got super intense. But because I was able to work with the pain in that way, I mean, I think I was able to take it much further than, than I could have otherwise. It's not like I'm numb or something, right? Mm. It's just-

[01:55:37] Kyle Coursey: Changes your relationship to it.

[01:55:38] Luke Storey: Yeah, exactly. So that, that's one thing I kind of wanted to have you unpack a bit 'cause that was- Yeah ... those were some of the most interesting elements as I recall.

[01:55:47] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. So the-- Going back to this concept of how many systems I can intelligently and positively engage simultaneously during a session, [01:56:00] like, touch and talk isn't the only things, right?

[01:56:04] Kyle Coursey: M- The breath becomes a very important input in our experience of, of our reality, but also as a signaler to what we're experiencing. So it's bidirectional. And so the, a lot of this kind of insight was gleaned from holotropic and from, like, things more like Wim, Wim Hof style of breathing and the physiologicals, experiences they're creating or correlating with And so I started playing with those because I'm trying to get a person's whole internal biological landscape to match the subjective experience they're having, right?

[01:56:47] Kyle Coursey: So when I'm taking a person into depth or into intensity, like I have this belief system that the human organism was geared mostly to respond to stressors in a physical way. Like we, [01:57:00] a lot of us don't get that same kind of like physical response to most stressors. A lot of them are... 90% of our stressors nowadays in modern society are perceptual, they're psychological, and we're sitting here experiencing these stressors, and these, the stressors are taking a toll on us.

[01:57:17] Kyle Coursey: Like inside, like it's, it's a very stressful experience, but we're sitting here calm, collected, trying to maintain cool and breathing normally, when I think our biology is more geared to like have them match a physiological expression or response. Ah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Is that making sense?

[01:57:34] Luke Storey: Yeah. So if you're a hunter-gatherer and you're in a stressful situation, you're probably moving- Moving

[01:57:40] Luke Storey: running from something, chasing something, breathing heavily, your heart rate's up- Yeah ... and it's like an appropriate-

[01:57:46] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm ...

[01:57:47] Luke Storey: psychological stress that is coupled with the physical stress. Yeah. Is that what you're getting at?

[01:57:51] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[01:57:51] Luke Storey: So like I'll be sitting at my computer, too many emails, money, ah. It's like-

[01:57:56] Kyle Coursey: And

[01:57:56] Luke Storey: it just- I'm not actually in a objectively stressful [01:58:00] situation - Yeah

[01:58:00] Luke Storey: but the mind makes it stressful, but the body's kind of locked up with it.

[01:58:04] Kyle Coursey: And so like then you start to s- So

[01:58:04] Luke Storey: it's not moving the energy of the stress ...

[01:58:06] Kyle Coursey: then you start to see what that, how that affects the system on like the somatic system because you're pumping these, uh, stress neurochemicals into your system, and you're not moving, and you're not breathing to match it.

[01:58:19] Luke Storey: Wow.

[01:58:20] Kyle Coursey: And this is like w-... Like I'm gonna use an extreme term here, and like don't grab onto it, and don't like misquote me, but for most of us, we're gaslighting our experience because our biology doesn't match our psychology in our moment. You see what I'm saying?

[01:58:34] Luke Storey: That's deep.

[01:58:35] Kyle Coursey: It's... Yeah. I

[01:58:35] Luke Storey: never thought about that.

[01:58:36] Luke Storey: That's

[01:58:36] Kyle Coursey: wild. And the amount of like what that's doing in the background to your felt sense, like a lot of people I see have like an exaggerated amount of anxiety or depression or stress, and like a area I like to play in and examine is how much of that is being caused because of the psychological states you're having are not matching your biolog- biological expression [01:59:00] of the similar state.

[01:59:01] Kyle Coursey: Like it's a, there's an incongruence there that can be s- extremely detrimental to some people, you know? And a lot of people don't have outlet, outlets or like even the framework to understand that like maybe this is contributing and amplifying it. And so what I'm trying to do with the breathwork is I'm trying to match the form of breath that would most likely naturally come with the type of experience objective that they're having.

[01:59:31] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:59:31] Kyle Coursey: And so it's like all of the holotropic work and where that work is taking people, right? Like, you're taking people deeply into the somatic memory, like where they're having, like, regressions to, like, birthing experiences. And so that then shows you how deeply the breath can access these somatic stored memories And so I thought, like, why wouldn't you pair these things together?

[01:59:59] Kyle Coursey: Like, one [02:00:00] can take the other deeper, and at the very least, it might honor the experience they're having. And if I do that through enough cycles over an extended period of time, can I build in what I think the system was naturally meant to engage with and build more background resilience in the nervous system's expression through physical, um, bell curves?

[02:00:23] Kyle Coursey: Like, 'cause in a natural situation, a stressor would have a physical response, a heightened expression, and then it would have an ending.

[02:00:32] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:00:32] Kyle Coursey: But with psychological stress, the thing keeps spinning over and over. It doesn't have completion.

[02:00:36] Luke Storey: Right.

[02:00:37] Kyle Coursey: And so the body's not... The body and the mind aren't able to fully let go of it or process it or mark it as complete.

[02:00:43] Kyle Coursey: And my whole thing is, like, how much of that is creating these heightened pings in the nervous system to, like, uh, states of hypervigilance? And, like, then you start to get into this whole concept of, like... Yeah, yeah.

[02:00:57] Luke Storey: You're explaining my life for the past two weeks.

[02:00:59] Kyle Coursey: [02:01:00] Yeah. And then,

[02:01:00] Luke Storey: like- Like, on, holy shit, I need to go work out.

[02:01:04] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:01:04] Luke Storey: I, I kinda quit working out a while ago 'cause I just hate it.

[02:01:08] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:01:08] Luke Storey: Maybe-

[02:01:09] Kyle Coursey: But if you can reframe it as in, like, honoring a biological process-

[02:01:12] Luke Storey: Totally ...

[02:01:13] Kyle Coursey: and, like, uh, like, even better than going to create one workout session is every time you have a psychological stressor, do some form of, like, immediate physical exertion-

[02:01:23] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

[02:01:23] Kyle Coursey: and watch that bell curve drop over time. And you'll just, it'll... Even the pings of the stress will be less because what your nervous system is learning is that you're surviving each one, and they have completion, and so it's better able to let go at the end. You see what I'm saying?

[02:01:39] Luke Storey: That's badass.

[02:01:39] Kyle Coursey: It's fucking badass.

[02:01:40] Luke Storey: I've never heard that. It kind of explains why there's, um, such a positive yet subtle therapeutic effect to going for a walk-

[02:01:49] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[02:01:49] Luke Storey: which I do sometimes. It's just like, "Ah, I can't take it." I take the dog for a walk, and I come back and, "Oh, well, everything's fine. What was I tripping about?"

[02:01:55] Kyle Coursey: So there's a mechanism to that.

[02:01:57] Kyle Coursey: Movement through space conveys [02:02:00] action to the nervous system and the psyche. It then conveys that, like, you're actually, like, safe, and you're actually then, like, proceeding to an outcome, whereas sitting in it do- does nothing to convey that. But then what happens is, like, this is the EMDR thing, where your eyes are going back and forth, and it's not seeing threat, and so it's then conveying, like, a sense of, like, safety, but it's going through the processes that it was naturally designed to go through, right?

[02:02:28] Kyle Coursey: Which is, like, what precedes a stressful event physically, biologically. And so I'm using breath and all the, the learnings of, of the Hof Method and the holotropic breathers and all the breathers that came before them, right? To then engage with the physiological But also the somatic access to the stored memories and also the neurochemical cocktails that it can create in these sometimes spiritual or [02:03:00] psychedelic or emotional situations.

[02:03:03] Kyle Coursey: And so the breath can amplify or take a person deeper into their subconscious mind. It can amplify or create, uh, a spiritual experience. It can amplify or create a full psychedelic experience. And I'm just trying to take those things and pair them as intelligently as possible with the other things I'm doing simultaneously to create environment where all the systems are actually operating as they should in relation to each other.

[02:03:33] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:03:34] Kyle Coursey: And then on top of that, I'm usually cueing a person before we do the breathwork, is like I'll tell them like, "I'm gonna take you into these deeper states. I want you to breathe in this way." And the breathing pattern just correlates to the type of experience they're having. So if that's what you were asking.

[02:03:48] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:03:49] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm. And I'll, I'll amplify it or I'll minimize it as I see while they're subjectively having their experience. But then I'm also cueing a person up to then have a [02:04:00] visualization. So like going back to your experience in the cult, right? They were doing a lot of things right on the processing side, but what I think is missing is the marrying of all of them simultaneously, right?

[02:04:11] Kyle Coursey: The physical expression, the visualization, and the vocalization. And so th- they're all ways that the, the system expresses, releases stress or emotional experience. And so what I'll do is I'll have them visualize while they're breathing of like you were doing, breathing out the pain, breathing out the sadness, breathing out all the distortion that isn't theirs.

[02:04:42] Kyle Coursey: And usually by that time, they're so deeply connected to the somatic experience that they're having a felt experience of these things. It's not some, some woo-woo concept that they're trying to implement, right?

[02:04:53] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:04:53] Kyle Coursey: They're usually like, "Holy shit, like I can feel these things in me. I can feel how they're connected to my body.

[02:04:58] Kyle Coursey: I can feel how they were [02:05:00] connected to my mind and my story. I can feel that they're living in me." Right? And then to have this experience where you're blowing out pain, out sadness, out, out all the negativity, and you're breathing in love. And this is a concept that like some of the ancient traditions also preached as well that I kind of like backward my way into, is that When we're, when we're playing with these denser kind of belief systems, right?

[02:05:27] Kyle Coursey: Shame, guilt, fear, all of these things, like to move them out to, to try to, to try to create space in our body. We're creating more space, and sometimes what we can create is maybe like a hole or a thing that's like left unfilled from what was once denser belief systems or negative energies. And it becomes important then to fill that space with love, or if the person believes in some higher form of intelligence, God, spirituality, the universe or whatever, is to fill that space with positivity.

[02:05:59] Kyle Coursey: [02:06:00] And that becomes important for the actual charge of the environment, right? To, to move denser negative things out and to fill it with positive, lighter things. And so you were doing it on your breath where you're breathing in- Yeah ... these things. And what I found continuously over time is that I can take a person so much deeper by combining them than I ever could with a singular approach.

[02:06:25] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:06:26] Kyle Coursey: And that's kind of like the, the basis of my, all of my work is like, you guys all got it right, but the human is this interconnected system, and all of these things need to be addressed and, and balanced at the same time if they have more complexity than just one system being off. And that's an important nuance.

[02:06:47] Kyle Coursey: Like if you go to a psychotherapist and all you have is a psychological problem, though it'll work. It will work. But most people who go that it doesn't work usually have more problems than just that, right? It's become a somatic [02:07:00] experience as well. It's become a neurochemical experience. It's now it's trapped in the breath, and the breath is now mimicking that same environment.

[02:07:07] Kyle Coursey: And so the, the overarching theme is like, again, like if I can get you breathing to match your experience for eight, 10 hours, if I can get you oxygenating yourself, if I can get you matching that experience of breath with pushing out negative things and bringing in positive things, like what can I do?

[02:07:31] Kyle Coursey: Where can I take you? How much more can I help you feel all of the things that you know are going on inside of you, but don't have the frame or the reference point to understand how they're connected? And a lot of these things I gained through firsthand experience on plant medicine, right? Is like the, the understanding of how the subtle energetics works of all this, how they're all interconnected, how they play in the body, how they store, how they transfer, what it looks like to move them [02:08:00] around.

[02:08:02] Kyle Coursey: And so the breathing part you did so beautifully, and I think the spaces you were able to take yourself to really speak to the amount of work you've done, right? And that empty space on the exhalation is a space I really love to play in, 'cause-

[02:08:21] Luke Storey: Oh, man, it's the best. It's the best,

[02:08:23] Kyle Coursey: right?

[02:08:24] Luke Storey: It's the most pristine.

[02:08:26] Kyle Coursey: It's, it's clean.

[02:08:27] Luke Storey: Yeah. It's just empty

[02:08:28] Kyle Coursey: space. Yeah. Right? And from that vantage point, you really get to see what's true.

[02:08:33] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:08:33] Kyle Coursey: And that's, I mean, if you, if you wanna, if you wanna sum up the totality of my work is helping a person see what's true and what's not true.

[02:08:41] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. I mean, that was really the whole experience for me a- and especially in the inhales and the exhales, right?

[02:08:47] Luke Storey: And as I said earlier, I would verbalize it a lot, but if I wasn't speaking it out loud, it's what

[02:08:52] Kyle Coursey: I was- But the fact that you spoke it out loud, I wanna emphasize this for the listener, so I didn't interrupt.

[02:08:55] Luke Storey: No, go ahead.

[02:08:56] Kyle Coursey: The fact that you're speaking out loud is another layer of subtle energetics and expression that's [02:09:00] actually needed in the formula to let go of things.

[02:09:02] Luke Storey: Mm.

[02:09:02] Kyle Coursey: And this is what I was saying, is like- Mm-hmm ... it's physical expression or physical- Mm-hmm ... exertion, visu- visualization, and vocalization. And, like, the vocalization part, like, people don't understand the subtle energetics of it, but to speak something out loud restricts certain blockages in your body.

[02:09:20] Kyle Coursey: It restricts certain blockages in your experience, and it does this thing on the back end of your mind that kind of pushes you more out of, like, the f- the flight response- Mm-hmm ... or the freeze or the fawn response into the fight response. Mm. And the way I look at it is, like, I'm trying to take people up a tier of natural response systems back into empowerment, and the way I look at that is, like, those lower levels are stuck.

[02:09:48] Kyle Coursey: They're a little bit blocked. They have no course of action that can take them out of it, and so the vocalization acts as a way of, like, speaking up for oneself or acknowledging one or, like, discharging the [02:10:00] energetics of the story- Yeah ... or the feeling. Yeah. So, like, people will growl. People will yell.

[02:10:05] Kyle Coursey: People will scr- cry, scream. They'll, they'll wail. They'll, they'll make all these guttural noises, right? And that's a way of processing that I want people to understand that's deeply intuitive and deeply natural and extremely beneficial. Like, I'll tell people before on the, they get on the table, I'm like, "I'm gonna stay quiet the whole time.

[02:10:23] Kyle Coursey: I'll keep working. Whatever comes through you, let it come out." If... And you did a good job of this. You kept talking your way through it, and, like, I, I told you from the beginning, "You're gonna talk. I'm not gonna answer. It doesn't mean don't talk," but you worked yourselves to your own conclusions.

[02:10:38] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:10:39] Kyle Coursey: I think that's a big part in therapeutic approaches that most people are missing.

[02:10:43] Kyle Coursey: We have the answers. Sometimes we just need to work ourself through it. We need the space, the observation, the, sometimes even the motivation. Like, and when I'm pressing into you, it creates a stimulus that forces you to keep your attention-

[02:10:55] Luke Storey: Yeah,

[02:10:56] Kyle Coursey: yeah ... on this train of thought. 100%. That's a really good point.[02:11:00]

[02:11:00] Kyle Coursey: It's like- It commands presence Presence Yeah And like you wanna talk about presence, like all day you were present that day

[02:11:07] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm

[02:11:08] Kyle Coursey: And what can somebody achieve if they have somebody keeping them present in themselves and int- intellectually, structurally pulling back more and more layers? 'Cause the mind can only hold so many steps.

[02:11:21] Kyle Coursey: This is where most people, like end up running into a wall. When you internally process, you usually have to jump back to your old narratives to complete the psychological train of thought. You don't get a reflection where that hole in that logic is, and then you can only hold so, so many steps. But to speak out loud to another and then to have a person guide you through a physical exploration of it, like the layers you can touch that you didn't know were there, the way you can process and evolve.

[02:11:53] Kyle Coursey: I think evolve is the most important word. Evolve your understanding of your experience and your existence. [02:12:00] That becomes a beautiful space to play in Right?

[02:12:05] Luke Storey: Yeah, yeah. The speaking out loud too, um, there's something in that that is declarative, right? Mm-hmm. It's like a line in the sand, sort of-

[02:12:15] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[02:12:15] Luke Storey: to, to what you were speaking to about the, you know, the different sort of nervous system responses.

[02:12:20] Luke Storey: Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot more power in fight than there is in fawn or flee or freeze. Yeah. Or, you know, it's like a, wow, I don't wanna fight, but if I gotta choose a response, that one feels the most empowered. And I remember in a lot of those vocalizations, it is, yeah, it's a declaration. It's like- Reclamation.

[02:12:38] Luke Storey: Yeah. Reclamation, declaration. It's like I'm planting my flag. No more of this shit. Yep. Get out of me. I'm done, right? Yep. And I could be thinking that. Yeah. It might have some effect, but there's something about bringing physicality. I'm like, I'm bringing something that's

[02:12:53] Kyle Coursey: non- It's a lot of commitment and resolve.

[02:12:55] Luke Storey: Yeah. I like the word resolve. I'm bringing something that's non-physical into the physical. I'm making noise, right? [02:13:00] Yeah. But behind the noise, behind the words, is a deep meaning and a deep commitment and promise to myself. Mm-hmm. It's like I might make a commitment or promise to myself like, yeah, I should probably stop doing this one thing, right?

[02:13:13] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. And I think about it a bit, and then I keep doing it. If I go tell my wife, "Hey, you know that thing I've been doing? I'm, from this day on, I'm making a commitment to not do that-"

[02:13:21] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[02:13:21] Luke Storey: I'm gonna have a completely different outcome.

[02:13:23] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm.

[02:13:24] Luke Storey: Right? It's like being witnessed, but also witnessing yourself by actually speaking it out loud.

[02:13:29] Kyle Coursey: I think that part is important, witnessing yourself, like hearing yourself say this shit out loud. Like going back to the thing you said that was so valuable for double-clicking-

[02:13:36] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm ...

[02:13:37] Kyle Coursey: is you heard yourself say that shit out loud. Yeah. And you were f- and then you're forced to, like, be like, "Oh, fuck." "I gotta believe this shit."

[02:13:44] Kyle Coursey: Dude, some of, some of the

[02:13:45] Luke Storey: things you double-clicked on, I'm still wrestling with. Still wrestling. You know? Yeah. There was one thing we got to, um- Yeah, yeah ... around kind of what am I doing with my life? Like, do I enjoy what I'm doing? Am I living to my highest potential, my purpose, and so [02:14:00] on? Before that conversation, I remember being like, 100%.

[02:14:02] Luke Storey: Like, I get to sit here and talk to people and do what I do. And I for- I forget what the prompt was that you asked me, but you know, something to the effect of like, "Well, if you could just pick whatever you wanted to do with your life, what would it be?" And I'm like, "I don't know. I'd be in Costa Rica on a farm just chilling."

[02:14:17] Luke Storey: What, I don't know what it was, right? And you're like, "Well, why aren't you doing that?" And then that opened up this whole other can of worms, you know? So that's something I keep going back to, like, yeah. Why am I not doing exactly what I wanna be doing? And that, you know, then underneath that is all the, oh, I don't deserve it, how am I gonna figure it out?

[02:14:35] Kyle Coursey: Self-love. Yep, self-love and self-worth.

[02:14:36] Luke Storey: Yeah, it's like-

[02:14:37] Kyle Coursey: It's usually at the bottom of it ...

[02:14:38] Luke Storey: I think there was something I said at one point, I was like, "Well, you know, who's gonna pay me to do that?" Or something like that. And you're like, "What did you just say?" And I was like, "Holy shit, did I just say that?"

[02:14:47] Kyle Coursey: You know?

[02:14:47] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:14:48] Luke Storey: That kind of thing, yeah. So many levels to it. Um-

[02:14:52] Kyle Coursey: But go, going back to the vocalization part. Yeah. Yeah Like, not only is it what you just said, but I wanna emphasize for people, it's usually a process of [02:15:00] releasing pain, sadness, anger. Like, really good at releasing anger, you know? And that, that it's so important but so subtle that people will downplay its importance or its significance, but the verbal or the, the guttural expressions really is a powerful tool for letting go of the things that you don't either wanna carry anymore or were never yours in the first place.

[02:15:23] Kyle Coursey: And so I just wanna make that an emphasis- Mm-hmm ... for either the listener or practitioners of, like, creating space for that and the importance of it. Um-

[02:15:31] Luke Storey: Beautiful.

[02:15:31] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:15:32] Luke Storey: Um, last thing is let's go back to, my famous last words, last thing, and then I think of 10 more things, but, um, to the relationship with pain.

[02:15:42] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:15:42] Luke Storey: You know, that was a really interesting part of it for me, of just like, wow, I spent my whole life running from this thing, and it's actually trying to help me.

[02:15:50] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:15:51] Luke Storey: You know, and I'm fighting this thing within, you know, speaking of physical pain, I'm fighting this thing that's actually on my side.

[02:15:57] Luke Storey: We're on the same team. You know, so how can I [02:16:00] work with it in a more symbiotic fashion rather than spending so much energy trying to get away from it? Like, what happens if you just go into the center of it and just be with it?

[02:16:12] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:16:12] Luke Storey: So speak to that. What's your experience of our relationship with pain, with physical pain?

[02:16:17] Kyle Coursey: So that side is pulled from, like, the side of exposure therapy. Like, and exposure therapy has a lot with taking people into their fear. And-

[02:16:27] Luke Storey: I've done that a lot on myself.

[02:16:28] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. Yeah.

[02:16:29] Luke Storey: It's- Deliberately putting myself in the-

[02:16:32] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[02:16:32] Luke Storey: the, uh, line of fire.

[02:16:35] Kyle Coursey: And so, yeah.

[02:16:35] Luke Storey: Desensitize myself to the- So it,

[02:16:37] Kyle Coursey: it's nuanced on how you do it-

[02:16:39] Kyle Coursey: looking at it ... because, like, some form of it can actually be a lack of self-love or self-worth, like the, the implementing of, like, masochistic tendencies, right? So it's a very subtle thing. But, like, I- Yeah ... in, in, as a whole, like, intentional, safe, um- Consensual exposure is a beautiful thing for a human being.[02:17:00]

[02:17:00] Kyle Coursey: And so going back to this concept of pain, right? What I found in the beginning was all of us in some way or another are running from pain, whether it's emotional, whether it's psychological, whether it's physical, we're trying to avoid it. I mean, that's what it's there for. It was, it was designed to, to give us warning, right?

[02:17:20] Kyle Coursey: But it's actually one of the most beautiful access points into the deeper parts of a human being because it predates like the intellectualism, right? And so I can use it as a tool to backdoor into a person's subconscious belief systems. And so when I'm, I'm using depth or intensity or pain, if you want, right?

[02:17:42] Kyle Coursey: I'm exposing the human organism to something it was built to fucking avoid. And if I can create a safe enough place with enough understanding and desire on the person to explore the stories that come up through that, it's usually really [02:18:00] profound because the, the things that hide from us the most are trying to protect us from pain that we think we're avoiding through doing it.

[02:18:09] Kyle Coursey: And so that's exactly the experience you had is like that doorway in through pain and your relationship to it and actually what it's, what it's actually trying to do versus the avoidance of it because of the fear, because of the dislike of what it's telling you. I believe it's a beautiful communication system, and if you can access and understand what it's trying to tell you and show you, I think the body in and of itself is a beautiful, like a beautiful intelligence system that speaks our truth continuously.

[02:18:40] Kyle Coursey: But we've learned to like shut it up or ignore it or deprioritize it. And I think that's one of the main symptoms of modernity is like we value the head's intelligence over the body's deep wisdom and deep truth. And like when you talk about soul, like I, I believe that form of intelligence speaks through [02:19:00] the body and can-- is trying to communicate with you at all times.

[02:19:04] Kyle Coursey: And so pain becomes a messenger, right? It's a protector, but it's also a messenger. It's showing you what it's protecting you from at all times. And if you just assume that you understand what it's protecting you from 'cause you haven't taken a deeper look, you miss the actual message sometimes. You evaluate it incorrectly.

[02:19:25] Kyle Coursey: And so it just, like I said, it becomes this beautiful doorway to explore what we're actually afraid of, what we're preventing ourselves from, what it's trying to prompt us to do or not do. And if I can create the environment where that introspection and that relationship is, and that exploration of pain is, is not only safe, but like prioritized in a way, or just like amplified maybe in a way.

[02:19:56] Kyle Coursey: I think I think the [02:20:00] potential of the exploration of the space is worth its weight in, in pain or gold, whichever one you wanna call it, right? Um, and going back to the could you have endured it without the psychedelics, the answer is yes, and it's because of my approach to people. I'm, I'm taking you to your threshold.

[02:20:19] Kyle Coursey: Your threshold is different at every type of intervention. And so, like the same way I'm gonna press into you, I'm not gonna press into, like, a 100-pound female, right? The same way I'm pressing into you on medicine is not the same way I'm gonna press on, on m- on non-medicine.

[02:20:35] Luke Storey: Ah, okay. So

[02:20:36] Kyle Coursey: I'm always meeting

[02:20:37] Luke Storey: the

[02:20:37] Kyle Coursey: person- You're, you're

[02:20:37] Luke Storey: calibrating.

[02:20:38] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:20:38] Luke Storey: Right. Okay.

[02:20:38] Kyle Coursey: And that's the thing, the nuance in-

[02:20:41] Luke Storey: So, like, had you not been calibrating me to what my capacity was, it would've been objectively lighter, but you're calibrating to what I could handle, and I was, like, going, "Bring it on." Yep. "Let's go." I think there were two points where I was like, "Dude, dude."

[02:20:58] Luke Storey: Not... You know, w- we had a [02:21:00] safe word. Yep. Like, you know, this whole thing stops like that- Yep ... if I said the word, whatever it was.

[02:21:04] Kyle Coursey: So that's an important part that I want that listener to understand. Okay. 'Cause th- they've listened to this whole thing, and they're like, "Well, this is intense."

[02:21:11] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:21:11] Kyle Coursey: Like, the, the whole thing is surrounded around safety.

[02:21:14] Kyle Coursey: Like, I've created the whole container around safety.

[02:21:16] Luke Storey: Very much so.

[02:21:16] Kyle Coursey: There's, there's safety, and there's a deep articulation and understanding that you're in control the whole time. It is not about what I think you need, right? So, like, if you would've said from the get-go, "Kyle, I just wanna be touched softly," I would've done that the whole time.

[02:21:32] Kyle Coursey: I wouldn't have been like, "No, Luke, I know what's best for you." You know? Right.

[02:21:36] Luke Storey: Right.

[02:21:36] Kyle Coursey: And that's, that's... I want the person to understand that, is that I meet everybody where they're at. It, it's not that you need these things. It's not that we have to do them. It's that we have to honor your system in a way, and if you're willing and if you have the desire to push past and push deeply, I will help you go there.

[02:21:55] Kyle Coursey: But I have safe words that you can use at any time to stop everything at all times for [02:22:00] any reason. Doesn't have to be pain. It could be, like, you're scared. It could be that you, like, feel uncomfortable. It could be that a trauma came up and you're just overwhelmed.

[02:22:08] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:22:09] Kyle Coursey: Right? Mm-hmm. It could be that, like, you're sad and you need a moment.

[02:22:14] Kyle Coursey: Any reason at any time, a person can stop the session and end it completely or even redirect how I'm approaching with them, and that's the humility side is, like, I, I don't know what's best for you. But if you tell me how to engage with you, I'll meet you there over and over and over again, and we'll, we'll push past if you wanna push past.

[02:22:32] Kyle Coursey: We'll do it in the way that you need to, or if you just wanna to let me go, I will match where you're at and try to take you into it. Is this making sense?

[02:22:43] Luke Storey: 100%, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there were a couple points. I mean, I d- I never got to safe word, like we need to pull the plug on this. But there are, there were definitely a couple points that I was like, "Hang on one second, one second."

[02:22:54] Luke Storey: "Just give me a moment to catch up with this," you know? But yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the, [02:23:00] I don't know, one of the key elements to what you do is the autonomy, right? The respect for the client's autonomy. Yeah. And it's, it's self-directed.

[02:23:10] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:23:10] Luke Storey: Right? And- Yeah ... you do have a great ability. I'll meet you as far as you wanna go, but if you wanna pull back, we'll stay there.

[02:23:17] Luke Storey: You know what I mean? Yeah. I always got the sense that I was in control of the situation.

[02:23:22] Kyle Coursey: And that's important on so many levels. Which allows

[02:23:24] Luke Storey: for safety and trust, right? It's like-

[02:23:26] Kyle Coursey: But it also speaks to empowerment and sovereignty.

[02:23:28] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[02:23:29] Kyle Coursey: You know what I mean? Like, like everything I'm doing, is what I tell people, everything I'm doing has a reason, and it's a subtle layer of reflecting self-worth, deep self-reconnection, self-empowerment, or a situation where you get to do something differently than you've always done it and have a positive outcome instead of a negative outcome.

[02:23:51] Kyle Coursey: And I think that last part is really important for people to understand, is 'cause that's actually how you break these, these really hard to [02:24:00] break emotional traumas or wounds or belief systems or... Is to have a positive outcome to something that you thought was going to have a negative outcome changes your reality and your perspective, and the amount of flexibility you have in that belief system.

[02:24:18] Kyle Coursey: And so that's something-- And that's, that's gleaned from, from exposure therapy- Mm-hmm ... as well as neuroscience and as well as trauma therapy, is like trying to build resilience in very safe, very incremental ways through an extended period of time, and leaving the person at the outset with a positive total outcome and more empowerment and more sovereignty and more self-connection.

[02:24:46] Luke Storey: All right, let me ask you something. Does your life suck a little more after one bad night of sleep? Well, mine does big time. If I don't sleep well, I tend to be a lot less fun. You can ask my wife for confirmation of that. I've got a shorter fuse, [02:25:00] lower patience, and everything feels just a little harder than it should.

[02:25:03] Luke Storey: And I'm guessing I'm not the only one. But what most people don't realize is that a lot of that comes down to magnesium deficiency. Between stress and just getting older, your body burns through it faster than you can replace it, and magnesium is what your nervous system needs to shut things down at night.

[02:25:19] Luke Storey: Now, thankfully, it's a super easy fix. It's called Magnesium Breakthrough from BiOptimizers. These guys created a blend of seven different forms of magnesium designed to help your body relax and support deeper, more restful sleep. I take it as part of my nightly routine, and the difference is legit. I find that my mind settles down faster, I fall asleep easier, and I wake up ready to handle my day instead of fighting my way through it.

[02:25:42] Luke Storey: Now, call me crazy, but sometimes I take it in the morning too, especially on days that are likely to be more stressful. So if you're ready to get your chill on and improve your sleep, here's what you do. Go to bi optimizers.com/luke and use the code Luke15 to save 15%. And for a limited time, here's what's up.

[02:25:59] Luke Storey: You get a [02:26:00] free bottle of MassZymes, BiOptimizers' best-selling digestive enzyme, added to your order automatically. That's a $20 value for free. So to take advantage of that offer, again, go to bi optimizers.com/luke. Use that code Luke15 and enjoy a free bottle of MassZymes while supplies last

[02:26:21] Luke Storey: The last thing okay. I have a lot of

[02:26:24] Kyle Coursey: last things. Please go in. I like last things.

[02:26:26] Luke Storey: Uh, is, 'cause I keep thinking of other elements of it, but the music- Yeah ... you know, is the-- I mean, in any kind of deep experience like that, the music is such a vehicle, such a catalyst. Um, and your playlist was really beautiful, but one thing that was interesting about the playlist was the ebb and flow of it, right?

[02:26:48] Luke Storey: There's, like, some beautiful classical music, and things get very soft and gentle and just subdued, and then it will ramp up, and there's some more intense music. There's, like, this real... A sine wave to it, you [02:27:00] know? Mm-hmm. That I wasn't really paying that much attention to 'cause there was so much going on, but it was like the soundtrack in the background seemed to be really guiding your flow.

[02:27:10] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. So talk to me about, like, what that music does for you as the practitioner.

[02:27:16] Kyle Coursey: Um, for me, very little. Mm. What it's really curated for is it's curated for what you just said, like the ebb and flows of the experience of the person on the table. And, like, that's one thing I learned, is that humans aren't built for consistent high output, right?

[02:27:35] Kyle Coursey: They need these, like, ups and downs. They need the contrast. They need a little bit of rest, a little bit of care, then a little bit of stimulation, a little bit of push. Like, and so I kind of created the playlist, one, to hit the waves that we've kind of disconnected from in our modern, like, kind of being, but also a lot of the music [02:28:00] I use is doing what the Shipibo are doing.

[02:28:06] Kyle Coursey: They're using sounds to organize structure and to make changes that the physical hands can't make in the person's energies and in the person's geometrical structures that then support the full expression uninterrupted, undistorted of their song. And so the music, like going back to the breathwork, you see how I'm layering in every piece, like sound as a technology that actually affects the psychological, emotional, and physical system that my hands can't actually do physically.

[02:28:44] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:28:44] Kyle Coursey: Mm-hmm. The breath to match the states. And we even did a thing that I usually do with clients when I, when I had access to, is we put your biomat on the table, and that's another level affecting the biology to match what it's naturally supposed to be, right? And so the [02:29:00] sound becomes a tool, a tool to help a person heal on layers that I can't access through the means that I have access to.

[02:29:07] Kyle Coursey: And in it, it elicits emotion. It takes a person on a felt sense of a journey that is so usually deep and meaningful and sparks like introspection or connection or feeling because it, it bypasses the intellectual brain and goes straight to the emotional brain And that's like where I wanna keep a person for as long as I can while I have them deeply in those emotional experiences, and honoring them, and processing them, and reflecting upon them.

[02:29:42] Kyle Coursey: And so I'm using it for, like I just stated, a bunch of different reasons. But for me, it, it really is about providing another level or layer of care for the person on my table, um, and helping them go sometimes past where they can go naturally on their own. [02:30:00] Like, as an, as a tool to evoke emotion, music is a beautiful-

[02:30:05] Luke Storey: Yeah

[02:30:06] Kyle Coursey: beautiful tool.

[02:30:07] Luke Storey: It's kind of, you know, thinking back to it, it's, it's like a carrier wave, right? Yeah. Where it's like even though you're fully present to the psycho-spiritual and physical process, it's like something you can kind of grab onto, right? Yeah. It's like a little bit of a safety net- Yeah ... where part of your awareness is in the music- Yeah

[02:30:30] Luke Storey: so the, the overall experience is less overwhelming.

[02:30:34] Kyle Coursey: Yep.

[02:30:34] Luke Storey: And also getting the sense that there's that ebb and flow. I remember being like, maybe it was in a bit of an intense thing, and I go- Mm-hmm ... "This song can't last forever." Yeah. You know what I mean? Yep. Like, in a minute, the music's gonna chill out, and then we're gonna go into, you know, the-

[02:30:49] Kyle Coursey: Yep, feel it naturally.

[02:30:50] Kyle Coursey: Like, that's what I'm trying to-

[02:30:51] Luke Storey: Yeah. So there's like a sense of safety that comes with it. Yeah. Because after, you know, the first half an hour or hour or something- It

[02:30:57] Kyle Coursey: shows you the bell curve.

[02:30:58] Luke Storey: Yeah, exactly.

[02:30:59] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:30:59] Luke Storey: There's some [02:31:00] predictability to it- Yeah ... right, where you're like, "Okay, I can settle into this because I know it's not gonna be just one thing level 10 the whole time."

[02:31:07] Kyle Coursey: Yep. And that's my style with intensity going back for the people, like with pain and with intensity and depth. Like, I'm not doing depth and intensity the whole time, and you experience this, right? Like, a lot of it is nurturing care, and I'm riding those waves.

[02:31:20] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:31:21] Kyle Coursey: I'm trying to bring a person back to fluidity and give them complete access to oscillation between all emotions, feelings, and experiences.

[02:31:30] Kyle Coursey: And what happens when you do that is they have less restrictions around flowing through them more naturally. They have less inclination to grab on or to hold it, to restrict themself. And so going back to the, like, overarching theme is, like, how much can I push you into, like, subjective experiences that teach you in a non-teaching way and convey to you safety, trust, fluidity, like, um, all these, like, beautiful things on the back end and how much that [02:32:00] will actually give you when you have it, like energetically or in the experience of your life.

[02:32:06] Kyle Coursey: Like, it directly contributes that, uh, that fluidity between emotional states.

[02:32:12] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:32:12] Kyle Coursey: And ability to honor and experience them fully while they're here is another layer I'm working is like, yeah, the song isn't gonna be intense the whole time, but I can allow it to be what it is. Right? And when that drops down, I can, I can appreciate that much more than I could before because now I have a different experience, and I can see what its actual intent is versus what I'm, I'm-- the story I'm making up.

[02:32:38] Kyle Coursey: And then to take you through courses and cycles of that for hours on end, you just-- the nervous system just starts to really, like, have this effect of like, "Okay, it's not all as bad as I thought, and it's not all gonna last forever." Can we do a session after this? Yeah. The table's set up down there, guys.

[02:32:56] Kyle Coursey: Tune in for part

[02:32:57] Luke Storey: two. That's, that's one thing I remember [02:33:00] during it, you know, like I was saying earlier, going, "How have I, like, stayed alive this long without ever having this experience?" But another thought that I had was like, "I need to do this shit quarterly." Like, this needs to be a, a regular thing, and I haven't, you know, I haven't had the opportunity to- Mm-hmm

[02:33:16] Luke Storey: to do another one. But I was telling Jared in the break, I was like, "Yeah, I think it's probably about time," 'cause it's like I've built on what we did. Mm-hmm. And I've made a lot of progress in certain ways, but it also revealed so much that it's like, uh, there's a bit more to work on now, you know?

[02:33:33] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, yeah.

[02:33:34] Luke Storey: So it's, it's interesting the way that, um, the way that that's played out over whatever it's been, two or three months, is like, okay, cool. Yeah, I feel like I integrated all of that. Mm-hmm. But there's still a lot left on the table-

[02:33:45] Kyle Coursey: Yep ...

[02:33:46] Luke Storey: to work with.

[02:33:47] Kyle Coursey: Um- That's another thing I wanna speak to before you continue- Okay.

[02:33:50] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ... is like you kinda started off with that when you said, like, "How, how have I not experienced this in all my years here?" And like, how [02:34:00] are there people walking around without this experience?

[02:34:02] Luke Storey: It's unfathomable, dude.

[02:34:04] Kyle Coursey: And so, and then you also said something like, like, this is something you unknowingly wanted and craved for most of your like, at least medicine journey life, right?

[02:34:14] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, yeah.

[02:34:14] Luke Storey: I mean, all my life, just without knowing it.

[02:34:17] Kyle Coursey: All your-- And that's what I'm trying to touch at is like the thing, if you want to understand what I'm doing, is I'm actually trying to provide as much humanness and humanity to a person to make them realize what you just said, is like we've all deeply been needing this and wanting this.

[02:34:35] Kyle Coursey: We just didn't know it existed, or we didn't know it was possible, or we couldn't really conceptualized how we needed it. And so that's one thing I wanna make clear to, to anybody listening is like, this is, this is such a human need, right? To be held, to be seen, to be cared for, to be touched, to be, to be honored.

[02:34:59] Kyle Coursey: [02:35:00] And I highly recommend that whatever you're doing, whether you're high functioning, whether you're struggling, whatever it is, like there's nobody I see that doesn't actually need this in some form or another, right? It doesn't have to be me. But like what I wanna emphasize is like- If you have the opportunity to do this, like it will benefit you in ways you cannot comprehend.

[02:35:27] Kyle Coursey: And that's the thing I see over and over in people, no matter how much they've done. Like I've worked with everybody who's done everything. I've worked on shamans, you know what I mean? Like the people who take care of everybody else. It's like it was built around that concept of like, I know I need this, but it doesn't exist, and that's the thing I'm trying to give as many people as I can for as long as I can.

[02:35:53] Kyle Coursey: Um, and that's where I'm hoping more people will wanna learn because everybody I run [02:36:00] into is, "Kyle, you have to start teaching people," because there needs to be more people offering this because it's not scalable the way it is. You're gonna come to your end, and that's something I've had to like acknowledge and accept is like I-- like at the most I'll be able to, to touch and do this with, I mean, at the most 500 more people, you know?

[02:36:26] Kyle Coursey: Just because of what you said, like I, I can't do it at the pace I was when I was younger. I've been doing this for 20 years. Like I used to be able to do sessions every other day.

[02:36:35] Luke Storey: Really? Holy shit.

[02:36:37] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And now it's like one a week.

[02:36:39] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:36:39] Kyle Coursey: And so like that's just, it's gonna become extremely limited in who I can offer it to.

[02:36:45] Kyle Coursey: And so if anybody wants to learn, if anybody wants to just, you know, start implementing some of these things, you don't have to do them the way I'm doing them, but I would love to help you learn how to offer your gifts in [02:37:00] the way that you want with all that I've learned. Yeah. And you can take pieces of mine, you can take all of it, you can change it.

[02:37:06] Kyle Coursey: I don't care. I just wanna expand and evolve Ah, these modern forms of either therapy or care so that the person is, is helped as much as possible.

[02:37:21] Luke Storey: Yeah, I think it's like The world could use about two million, uh, people doing some f- some version of what you're doing, you know? Yeah. 'Cause it's just like, that's the sense I had, as I said earlier, just go, "Man, everyone needs this."

[02:37:36] Luke Storey: Everybody comes off the table

[02:37:37] Kyle Coursey: with a profound experience- Mm-hmm ... and a profound shift that they haven't got from, from other things.

[02:37:41] Luke Storey: Yeah, 'cause it's like, I think no matter how healed one is or high functioning one is, there's levels to the game. Levels, yep. Like, there's always up-leveling. I mean, I have a really good life.

[02:37:54] Luke Storey: I'm generally happy and successful in most ways. I've come a long way in my life. Yeah. I've healed a lot, [02:38:00] transformed all the things, and I think, "Well, I'm pretty much, you know, I'm baked. Like, I can come out of the oven. I'm good to go." Yeah. And then I meet someone like you and work with you, I'm like, "Oh, shit."

[02:38:09] Luke Storey: Like, I haven't even scratched the surface. It's, it's, it's-- I have. Yeah. And it's not discounting the progress I've made. Yeah. But it's like we have an infinite potential in the human experience. Yeah. And so I'm just someone who's oriented toward discovering what that potential is, 'cause it's like, what else are we here for,

[02:38:27] Kyle Coursey: you know?

[02:38:27] Kyle Coursey: That's... I love, I love to work with people like that. Like, what I find interesting is, like, all the CEOs and all the Wall Street guys, they're all starting to learn about this, and what they're all saying to me is like, "Holy shit." Like, the returns on this is higher than any of the performance shit that they're doing, right?

[02:38:45] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. It's higher than any of it, and like, I've had people come off the table and make millions of fucking dollars because they got clear on what- Do

[02:38:53] Luke Storey: this protocol on me.

[02:38:54] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[02:38:56] Luke Storey: No, but it's true, man. You think about it. I mean, a lot of the stuff we talk about here on the show, you know, [02:39:00] red light therapy.

[02:39:01] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. It's like all these biohacks and technologies, and every kind of breathwork and meditation and all the things. I mean, it's all good. I do all of it. I love it. But it's like, it's a lot slower.

[02:39:11] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:39:11] Luke Storey: It's a lot slower to get where you wanna go,

[02:39:14] Kyle Coursey: you

[02:39:14] Luke Storey: know? Or many of us, myself included, get hung up on one side of it, right?

[02:39:19] Luke Storey: Just really committed to spiritual growth and meditation. Yeah. And then you're kind of like ignoring the physicality of it.

[02:39:25] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. That's an important piece.

[02:39:26] Luke Storey: Right? Or that flips and, you know, you're really into biohacking and fitness and working out. And you're not seeing the other side. But you're not really dealing with your trauma, you know?

[02:39:33] Luke Storey: So it's like we're such a multifaceted creature as humans, I, I think. This

[02:39:38] Kyle Coursey: is meant to be the amalgamation of all those worlds.

[02:39:40] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:39:41] Kyle Coursey: And it's meant- It

[02:39:41] Luke Storey: is.

[02:39:42] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And so that's another thing is like, another concept I wanna put out to people is like, there's only so much of this you can do on your own. You will hit your own blind spots no matter how aware you are, just the nature of it, right?

[02:39:54] Kyle Coursey: And so to do it in the presence of another, uh, provides a level of [02:40:00] accountability that is super important in the whole scheme of things.

[02:40:03] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:40:04] Kyle Coursey: And so find whoever you need, but like, make sure that process is being held in account, because the mind is so good at writing those stories and justifying them.

[02:40:15] Kyle Coursey: Like you said, like to, to just have me double-click on a couple of your narratives was like That's

[02:40:23] Luke Storey: brutal Brutal, right? I mean, not 'cause of what you're doing, just the realization's

[02:40:28] Kyle Coursey: brutal The realization of how tricky and sneaky the mind is, you know? Yeah. And yeah Yeah ... so find somebody, you know. If it's not me, then find somebody.

[02:40:37] Luke Storey: So we're gonna put, uh, links to your website and social and all the things- Mm-hmm ... at lukestory.com/kyle, uh, so people can go, you know, learn more about you. But give, uh, listeners and viewers some idea of where do you travel for people that are interested in working with you, which I'm assuming there's gonna be quite a few of them after this, hopefully, for their benefit and yours.

[02:40:58] Luke Storey: Um, [02:41:00] you know, you come to Austin now. There's, you know, you're, you're gaining some traction here- Yeah ... 'cause someone like me or our buddy Cal or- Yeah ... Mark Gober. God bless Mark, who introduced me to your work.

[02:41:09] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, big formal thank you to you, to Cal, to Mark. You guys have all, like, played a big part of me succeeding in Austin, so thank you.

[02:41:17] Luke Storey: Absolutely. Thank you. Well, it's funny 'cause, you know, I'm in a, a men's group with Cal and Mark, and we have a little WhatsApp, and I, you know, I'm really terrible at WhatsApp. Sure. It's, I just can't keep up with all the notifications. Every... Fucking Signal, Telegram, SMS, emails. Like, ah. But I happened to dip in there one day, and Mark's, Mark just, he didn't even really say anything.

[02:41:36] Luke Storey: He said, "I worked with this guy. He's amazing. Here's his Instagram or your site or whatever," and just gave a basic description of it. And I wasn't in the market for- ... this kind of experience at all that day, right? Yeah. And I looked at it, and I was like, "Hmm," clicked on it, and just my intuition is like, "I'm doing this."

[02:41:54] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. That's what I tell people- Yeah ... is like- It's

[02:41:55] Luke Storey: crazy.

[02:41:56] Kyle Coursey: I mean- It doesn't have to be for inner work. It can be for optimization. [02:42:00] Mm-hmm. You'll be blown away at the level that it actually helps you perform. Like, I work on athletes. I work on military guys. I work on all kinds of people, and what they don't realize is, like, when you're at that level of the game, like, the metric, the percentage you're trying to increase doesn't actually come from the, the ways that you're doing it anymore.

[02:42:20] Kyle Coursey: And so that's what I help them with, is like, then they realize how much of the subtle energetics was tied up in keeping them from actually hitting that 1 to 5% extra.

[02:42:28] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:42:28] Kyle Coursey: And so, like, whether it's, whether it's the money guys, whether it's the performance guys, whether it's the, the responder guys, like, they're like, "Oh, shit, there's a lot more in here than I realized," you know?

[02:42:39] Kyle Coursey: And so I just wanna make that clear 'cause it doesn't have to be about inner self-work.

[02:42:44] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:42:44] Kyle Coursey: Like, you can do this for other reasons. You can do this for marital reasons. Like, a lot of people that come see me, they're, they're having marital issues, or they're having a midlife crisis, or they're, you know, or they're running a huge company, and the amount, the amount of stress and tension they're [02:43:00] running on is actually starting to distort their capability and their ability to implement as high level as they desire.

[02:43:11] Kyle Coursey: And so at that level, it becomes this equation of, like, the cost of one mistake equals a lot of money- Mm-hmm ... or a lot of people's jobs or, you know, at the very least, their, their quality of life.

[02:43:23] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:43:24] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. And if you're operating at that level and you have a shit quality of life, I would tell you that- You should probably come see me because, you know.

[02:43:32] Kyle Coursey: And the other thing I'm hoping to affect too is a lot of these guys are creating, um, the reality, but also the-- They're also creating the path for other people to follow. So they're role models even though they don't realize it. Mm-hmm. And if they continue to do it in an unsustainable way, the next generation picks up that distortion as well, and we all struggle or suffer, right?

[02:43:57] Kyle Coursey: Like, th-there's another way. We can do [02:44:00] both, and that's another thing I'm excited to work with people for is like, let me show you that both/and is a possibility. You can perform at the levels, you can achieve the things you want, but you can also have extreme self-care and show the world that there's another way You know, how can we change that story?

[02:44:16] Kyle Coursey: How can we change what's being passed on?

[02:44:20] Luke Storey: So you're from Hawaii, hence the accent. Which I always, I love hearing you talk- ... 'cause I, I think I told you when I met you, I thought, "Oh, he's Russian or something." And I was like, "No, from Hawaii." So you, you live in Hawaii still, right?

[02:44:33] Kyle Coursey: Kauai,

[02:44:33] Luke Storey: yeah. Kauai. Oh, oh my God.

[02:44:34] Luke Storey: Yeah. I was,

[02:44:35] Kyle Coursey: I was raised on

[02:44:35] Luke Storey: Kauai. Dude, I was... I'm, like, addicted to Zillow. Zillow is like- ... my Tinder or something, you

[02:44:40] Kyle Coursey: know? Yeah.

[02:44:41] Luke Storey: But Kauai is on my searches, you know? Oh my God, I found a property there yesterday. I mean, I have no plans to move there right, I'm just... I like to dream and just- Yeah ... open up possibilities.

[02:44:50] Luke Storey: Oh my God, I c- I'll text it to you. Oh my God, dude, I found this amazing farm there. It's, like, all old growth fruit trees. It's been organic since- Oh, that's beautiful ... day one. It's got a river running [02:45:00] through it. I mean, it's- Oh, that's beautiful ... I think 3.2 million. It's a little out of my budget at the moment.

[02:45:04] Luke Storey: But yeah, Hawaii is such a special place. It is. Uh, but anyway, point being, uh, for people that wanna work with you, I mean, how many different cities or states do you typically travel to? And also, if there's someone that hears this and is outside of your normal route, I mean, do you take special trips to someone who's in freaking Ireland or something that really wants to work with you?

[02:45:26] Luke Storey: How does, how does that work?

[02:45:28] Kyle Coursey: Yeah. I have cities that I go to, that I have hubs that have a lot of clientele. So, like, places like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Austin, New York, Boston.

[02:45:39] Luke Storey: Oh, okay.

[02:45:39] Kyle Coursey: Right? But at the same time, I also travel to independent states for clients, and I also travel internationally for clients, and that just becomes logistics and costs, like covering costs of travel- Sure

[02:45:53] Kyle Coursey: and things like that.

[02:45:54] Luke Storey: Okay.

[02:45:54] Kyle Coursey: But it's all doable. They just have to reach out to me, and my, my assistant and manager will [02:46:00] help them understand what it would take to actually make that happen.

[02:46:03] Luke Storey: Cool.

[02:46:03] Kyle Coursey: But as of right now, if you're in a city that I travel to, it's super easy. And if you're not, like, my assistant or manager will help them figure out- Okay

[02:46:12] Kyle Coursey: like, how we can make that possible.

[02:46:13] Luke Storey: Amazing.

[02:46:14] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:46:14] Luke Storey: Well, I'm stoked that you're locked into Austin. Yeah. You know, you got a lot going on here.

[02:46:18] Kyle Coursey: I mean, you guys have a lot to do with that.

[02:46:19] Luke Storey: Yeah. So thank you. Yeah. I mean, there's- Yeah. Thank you ... you know, there's so many like-minded people here. It really is a hub for-

[02:46:25] Kyle Coursey: Yeah

[02:46:25] Luke Storey: everything related to the kind of work you do.

[02:46:27] Kyle Coursey: I agree.

[02:46:28] Luke Storey: Uh, all right, last question for you for real this time. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have contributed to who you are and the work you do?

[02:46:43] Kyle Coursey: Hawaiian culture. I was raised in it, and I took the value system of it, and it showed me a lot of, like, the underpinnings of what I do. Um, nature has always been my greatest teacher. Like, one of the things I'm trying to do with my work is take ultimate [02:47:00] complexity and turn it into beautiful simplicity, because it's too much for the mind to comprehend all these things, and the way it deeply understands things is through experience, and beauty is a beautiful way to touch that part.

[02:47:14] Kyle Coursey: And so what I'm trying to leave a person with after they're done is a felt sense of beauty, right? They don't need to understand all the complexity of it. Like nature, if you just look at it, you appreciate it for what it is, and you understand it in its, in its intent, right? So nature is always teaching me.

[02:47:33] Kyle Coursey: A lot of that has been the ocean and the flows of the ocean and what the ocean does and what it represents and depths of it, the emotionality of it. And the last thing has been medicine, like ayahuasca, mushrooms, iboga, LSD. All of it has taught me. And there's other ones. There's many other ones, but they've all taught me different things that are very important [02:48:00] and things that can't be really taught.

[02:48:02] Kyle Coursey: They have to be experienced to truly know. And that's what allows me to, to take people to a lot of the places that I end up taking people Um, but those have been my biggest teachers.

[02:48:15] Luke Storey: Amazing. Yeah. I always love hearing the answer to that question. Yeah. I think I've asked it on just about every show.

[02:48:22] Luke Storey: Unless someone's been on twice, I, I don't ask it the second time.

[02:48:25] Kyle Coursey: Yeah.

[02:48:26] Luke Storey: Every once in a while I probably forget, but it's, it's funny 'cause s- it often takes people a moment. You know, there's usually a pause, and then it's always surprising 'cause it's like, "Oh, my wife, my kids, my mom, and my dad." Yeah. The other one is it's Jesus, Buddha, and then, yeah, I mean, people, it's, like, all over the map what, how people answer.

[02:48:45] Luke Storey: But if I had to answer, a- apart from Hawaii, 'cause I haven't spent as much time there as you have-

[02:48:51] Kyle Coursey: Yeah ...

[02:48:52] Luke Storey: but I think nature and medicine have been two of my big ones, too. I mean, the- I love what you said about the, the complexity of [02:49:00] nature, right? It's

[02:49:00] Kyle Coursey: taken ultimate complexity and

[02:49:02] Luke Storey: turned it into- But, but how we experience it is simplicity.

[02:49:05] Luke Storey: Simplicity. When you were saying that, I was thinking about, uh, an orchid or something- Yeah ... right? Or a rose. It's like, oh my God, that's, like, such a complex organism. Yeah. But we experience it with such simplicity. It's beautiful to look at. It smells nice. Soft when you touch it. Like- Yeah ... you know, you can have this multi-sensory, uh, experience of it that's very simple and primal, but if you step back, you're like, "Holy shit, who made that, and how, and why?"

[02:49:31] Luke Storey: You

[02:49:31] Kyle Coursey: know? It shows you the nature of reality- Right ... and the nature of us in everything. Like, there's different stages of it. It responds differently. It evolves. It, you know, it adapts to stressors. Like, it's all right there.

[02:49:42] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:49:42] Kyle Coursey: All the information is right there, right? I'm not saying you can synthesize it or grok it all, but, like, it, it points to everything.

[02:49:50] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:49:51] Kyle Coursey: You know?

[02:49:51] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[02:49:52] Kyle Coursey: And that's, yeah, that's been one of my overarching goals is to, to try to take what it's taught me and, and [02:50:00] help people understand and experience that.

[02:50:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. Bring people into their own nature, baby. Yeah.

[02:50:05] Kyle Coursey: Exactly.

[02:50:05] Luke Storey: Well, thanks for your commitment to what you do. Yeah. Thanks for making the time to come by today, and I can't wait to work with you again.

[02:50:11] Luke Storey: I think I'm, I'm ready for the next level soon, so- ... I'm glad we got to refresh, you know, my, my memory of how profound it was to, uh, to have the opportunity to work with you, so I'm very blessed to have you. Thank you.

[02:50:23] Kyle Coursey: Yeah, same to you. Like, I really appreciate you guys' support and you guys' help. Like, it's meant a lot to me.

[02:50:32] Luke Storey: All right, Lifestylist Nation, big ups to each and every one of you for joining this conversation. Wherever you're listening or watching, hit those buttons. You know what I'm talking about. Like, follow, subscribe, 'cause I know you don't wanna miss what's coming. And if you enjoyed this episode, please drop a rating and quick review.

[02:50:51] Luke Storey: This podcast has always been and will always be free and unfiltered, and dropping a quick rating and review is a powerful way for [02:51:00] you to give back without spending a penny. 'Cause here's what's up. With tens of thousands of new podcasts constantly hitting the airwaves, it's tough for us to reach new people.

[02:51:09] Luke Storey: The reason is because the podcast platforms are ruled by algorithms, and the only lever I have to pull is your ratings and reviews. So pretty, pretty please with organic cane sugar on top, take 60 seconds out of your life and tap that review button. It not only keeps the show from disappearing, it's also the only way I can know what topics and guests you want more of.

[02:51:31] Luke Storey: Our new episodes drop every Tuesday, and on the last Friday of the month, I release an AMA where I answer your very own questions. And I put those calls for questions out on all my social media accounts, so you gotta make sure we're connected. You'll find over 600 podcast videos and long-form product reviews on my YouTube.

[02:51:49] Luke Storey: That's youtube.com/lukestory. I'm on X @MrLukeStory, and my brand-new TikTok handle, fresh from being banned for the third time by the CCP, is [02:52:00] LukeStoryOfficial. And of course, I'm still active on Instagram @LukeStory and on Facebook @MrLukeStory. But you'll need to follow to see me, thanks to four years of heavy shadow banning.

[02:52:11] Luke Storey: And I know that was a lot, so I'm gonna let you know you can find all of those links at the bottom of my homepage at lukestory.com, which is the mothership for everything I do. Oh, and if you enjoy your content raw-dogged and uncensored, you're gonna wanna join my Telegram channel at lukestory.com/telegram.

[02:52:29] Luke Storey: But be forewarned that my Telegram feed is for adults with open minds only. Things can get pretty racy in there. Okay, that's it, and that's all, folks. Thank you for your attention to what matters. I'll close by sending blessings to you and yours and to your journey. See you next time

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