548. Suffering Is the Doorway to Freedom: Through the Void to Sacred Purpose

Beth Martens

July 9, 2024

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Beth Martens shares how she survived cancer, ways archetypes can help you, and practical advice on achieving freedom. Visit lukestorey.com/nurturer and use code LUKE to save 20% on the Nurturer Cure live online course – which starts tomorrow!

For archetype, purpose, and business coach, author, coach trainer, and founder of the House of Free Will in the Private Domain, Beth Martens, following her calling is a life or death thing. After a decade as a corporate VP in her family's firm, eight trips to India, and a three-year battle with cancer 20 years ago, she used archetypes to save her life. Today, she helps truth lovers find their sacred purpose, be valued for their life's work, and survive the ordeals of their Hero's Journey. As a recovering feminist, she helps strong men and women to survive their missions, and hosts the King Hero's Journey podcast to highlight important leaders, entrepreneurs, movement makers, law experts, and purveyors of the truth.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Hey again, beautiful souls! 

Meet Beth Martens, an archetype, purpose, and business coach, author, coach trainer, and founder of the House of Free Will in the Private Domain. Beth's story is one of resilience, enlightenment, and sacred purpose. After a decade as a corporate VP in her family's firm, eight transformative trips to India, and a life-changing battle with cancer, Beth discovered the power of archetypes, which ultimately saved her life.

Her gifts to The Life Stylist community are overflowing. Visit lukestorey.com/nurturer and use code LUKE to save 20% on the Nurturer Cure live online course – which starts tomorrow! And, access a generous discount on her Getting Off the Nurturer's Pendulum Swing training, plus, a free King Hero archetype reading in the links below.

In this episode, we dive into Beth’s remarkable journey of self-discovery and healing. From her corporate career to her spiritual sojourns in India, and the profound impact of her three-year battle with cancer, Beth shares how facing mortality reshaped her perspective on life and death. We then explore how she used archetypes to navigate her hero's journey and how she now helps truth seekers find their sacred purpose and be valued for their life's work.

Throughout our conversation, we touch on subjects I know many of you care about deeply, including the fallen guru phenomenon, the allure and pitfalls of chasing higher states of consciousness, and the significance of suffering as a pathway to freedom. 

Beth also shares her insights on shadow work, archetypes, and the crucial role of birth experiences in personal transformation. She also gifts us with good advice for the Nurturer archetype that many will resonate with; including establishing healthy boundaries and getting off the pendulum swing of high and low energies. 

There’s no shortage of wisdom and spiritual guidance in this conversation. If you want to explore more of Beth’s work, read her book, Journey: A Map of Archetypes to Find Lost Purpose in a Sea of Meaninglessness, listen to her podcast King Hero's Journey, and check out her online courses.

You're in for a transformative ride!

(00:00:08) Messages from the Void: Death is the Best Teacher

  • First thoughts after being diagnosed with cancer
  • Balancing a corporate career while studying in India
  • How her perspective on death has evolved post cancer survival
  • Facing death programming and getting through cancer treatment
  • How she downloaded her sacred purpose on the precipice of death

(00:16:39) The Fallen Guru Phenomenon & Ascension Myth Busting

  • How and why she became disillusioned by her guru
  • Unboxing the phenomenon of the fallen guru
  • Ascension myth busting
  • Lester Levenson: lesterlevenson.org
  • Addressing our attachments to chasing higher frequencies

(00:33:15) Suffering As A Doorway to Freedom & Debunking New-Age Distractions

  • Why suffering is a doorway to freedom 
  • Mark Archer: treeoftheliving.com
  • How translations of the Bible incorrectly depict teachings
  • Read: The Sermon on the Mount by Emmet Fox
  • Observations on spiritual bypassing and new-age distractions (Palladians, 5D, etc.)
  • How to surrender and release yourself from a stuck state 
  • How Beth survived cancer 

(00:51:05) Seeking Redemption for Shadows & The Birth Experience Transformation

(01:21:58) The Nurturer Archetype & Getting Off the Pendulum Swing

  • How to manage the complexity of our internal lives
  • What is our sacred purpose?
  • Exploring the nurturer archetype
  • Visit lukestorey.com/nurturer and use code LUKE to save 20% on the Nurturer Cure live online course
  • Why Luke stopped mentoring people in the AA community
  • Visit lukestorey.com/pendulum for the free Getting Off the Nurturer's Pendulum Swing training

(01:43:23) Controlled Opposition Discernment & Boundaries for Nurturer Archetypes

(02:31:33) Living in Private: Beth’s Advice on Achieving Freedom & Independence

(03:11:18) The House of Free Will & Breeding Humility

[00:00:01] Luke: Beth, what was the first thing that went through your mind when you got diagnosed with cancer?

[00:00:07] Beth: Oh boy, a whole bunch of stuff. I bet the first one was relief. Because I thought it's possible I was being a hypochondriac and just looking for a way out of my life that I thought I didn't have a way out of. I knew it was the reason I never needed to go back into my office ever again. When I left for the appointment to go to the surgeon and get my diagnosis, I thought that it was just going to be, oh yeah, you're just making this up. And when he said I had a stage four lymphoma, it was like, wow, okay, this is real full stop. Now I can cut bait with the corporate world.

[00:00:48] Luke: What was your corporate job?

[00:00:50] Beth: I was vice president of my family's communication and marketing firm. So I was born and raised in that environment.

[00:00:58] Luke: Oh, wow.

[00:01:01] Beth: I was 10 years old when I started working for them. Would have a summer job. I liked responsibility, oddly enough. I liked making money as a young person, gave me freedom to make my own choices. And after I did my degree in anthropology at the University of Winnipeg, graduated with a gold medal, but was qualified for absolutely nothing because of that.

[00:01:21] So I'm like, okay. I had just made my first trip to India immediately after graduating, and I fell in love with India and a guru there for better or for worse, let's say. There's some stories there.

[00:01:34] Luke: Yeah, I've been there.

[00:01:35] Beth: Yeah. And so when I got back after 11 months, all I wanted to do was go back to India, potentially live there. And so I'm searching like, what am I going to do for a living? And then I thought, hey, you know what? I've always worked at my family's firm. Why don't I go and offer my dad that I'll go and educate myself in that field because I'd never worked in a professional executive capacity before?

[00:02:02] And he told me, Beth, I will train you. I will pay you to train, and we can get started right now. So I'm like, all right, I'm in. That sounds like a deal to me. And he gave me six weeks off every year to go and do my India trip. So I led a double life, let's say. I was wearing my suit and acting like a guy all day long. And then I was doing my meditation, and yoga, and workshops, and everything by night and weekends.

[00:02:31] Luke: How did you overcome buying into the belief that you had a terminal illness when you got the diagnosis?

[00:02:41] Beth: Well, I had been studying so much in India. By that time, I had been eight times in seven years, and the whole philosophy was immortality. And I had a mantra, it was Amaram Hum, Amaram Hum, means I am immortal. I am blissful. So I didn't believe in death at that point. But it was a discovery that that was an extremely surface belief. And lo and behold, I was to come face to face with death several times, even having a near-death experience. Although not one of those classic, I saw the light kind of things.

[00:03:23] Luke: Not one of the floating in the corner of the room above your body, coming back to tell everyone present what happened when you were supposedly dead. I love those. Those are wild.

[00:03:34] Beth: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:35] Luke: How's your perspective on death evolved? I think one of the tools that I use in my life a lot that's really useful and at times confronting is just doing my best to not run from the fact that my stay in this body is temporary and fleeting, but I have a very real sense that I don't end when the body ends.

[00:04:00] I don't know where exactly I'm meant to go, but having had a number of experiences in my life where I'm basically not in my body, in a positive way, not like disassociated, but just in plant medicine, ceremonies, etc. And in those experiences specifically have realized like, oh, wow, there's still a me here, even though I'm not here, which is comforting.

[00:04:27] And then it's a matter of surrendering the attachments to form that are always developing, and some of them are lodged in. So it's like, I'm not so afraid of death. I'm afraid of relinquishing the attachments I have to the things that I value in life. So that's mine. But where are you today all these years later? Obviously, you didn't succumb to the cancer. You're here in the same damn body. How are you with death now and reincarnation and all those things?

[00:04:58] Beth: Yeah, it's the same and totally different. So the conclusion is it was a real one. Death isn't real. Death is an illusion. But by saying that, you don't erase the programming of death. And for the most part, we live in a death cult, and it promotes this whole perspective of lack, and debt, and death.

[00:05:22] Debt and death are very close. So there isn't a day that goes by-- I'm smiling a little bit because everybody tells me they're not afraid to die. They'll say maybe they're afraid of the pain before dying, or they're afraid of the loss, is very common. But until you come face to face with death programming, then it's a completely different kind of experience. When you are dying, and that's what death programming is.

[00:05:50] When you are dying, and that's what death programming is, the program tells you, you are dying right now, right here. And the tendency is to suppress that like anything, because it's the worst pain you could ever have. So that's why we tend to avoid it. We tend to think our way around it. Very easy to spiritually bypass that.

[00:06:13] And when I was face to face with it, because I'd been fighting like a trooper for 18 months and using my mantras and my yoga and rising above it and meditating my way up and out of my fear all the time. So I felt like I was actually doing great, even though my body was still very much compromised.

[00:06:35] And I tried to avoid all the therapies like the plague in terms of conventional allopathic medicine. I had some success, and the next thing you know, I'm going downhill again. So it was my naturopath that sent me home to do all of the allopathic stuff.

[00:06:52] And the months and months of chemotherapy were incredibly brutal. I don't know if you've spoken with people who've been through that, but it is a living death, and it's a slow incremental sort of like frog boiling effect that at first you don't notice it that much.

[00:07:11] Second time you notice it a little bit more. By the time you're 11 months in, your body gets decimated from the inside out. And so I incrementally became more and more incapacitated, and I would always hold on to this. Well, at least I can sing, because I'm a musician and singer.

[00:07:32] That was a huge channel for me, let's say, of joy and life. Well, at least I can sing. And then I can't sing anymore. Well, at least I can sit up. I can't sit up anymore. At least I could do this or could do that. And it was finished for me that day. And by that point, I was living in my parents' home.

[00:07:51] I couldn't live independently anymore. Ended up selling my house in order to pay off a bunch of medical bills. So there I am in my parents library, and the sun's starting to go down, and I'm absolutely useless. My body's not functioning anymore. And it would have been a time when I would call out to get some help or some assistance.

[00:08:13] And the awareness of running from death suddenly was front and center for me, the mechanism that had me running. Because it's very unconscious. We don't know we're doing it. You said it. And so I was aware of that, and I thought, oh, exhausted. I'm finished. I think I'm going to just let death have me at this stage because I've got nothing left.

[00:08:40] And so I let go. I allowed death to have me. I went into a kind of blackness, where there was a nothing, wasn't what I expected. And on the other side of the blackness was the brightest, not light, but a self-effulgent joy just opened up for me. And I'm like, wow, this isn't what I thought at all.

[00:09:06] And so I just remained there for quite a long time, hour after hour. The sun went down. The room was black, but inside, I was, it's hard to say happy. It's happy with no unhappy opposite to it. And I started to download what I realized later is my sacred purpose.

[00:09:29] Luke: Wow. What an initiation.

[00:09:32] Beth: I know. I know.

[00:09:33] Luke: Do you think that blackness that you pass through would be what most people would refer to classically as the void, an emptiness before you reached, for lack of a better term, and you could maybe frame it totality, just being in pure consciousness? It seems like for some, there's a purgatorial realm before oneness, before totality, that's just devoid of anything and everything.

[00:10:06] Beth: To tell you the truth, I can conjecture and make it up. There was nothing ever definitive about that, but it's a-- because our system is used to operating based on all kinds of patterns that are already set in place, ways of thinking, ways of feeling, ways of being, everything whittled away.

[00:10:34] I lost my house. A whole ton of my relationships ended when I got my diagnosis. The sicker I got, the less people wanted to be around me because it's so frightening for them. I ended up giving away all my possessions, my cats, lost my job, meaning I walked away from my job. And I was just moving closer and closer to nothingness. So void is probably not a bad description for that blackness. And it was just an absence. So yeah, void probably works. I hadn't even tried to describe that.

[00:11:09] Luke: And how would you summarize your life's purpose that was revealed in that experience?

[00:11:15] Beth: It was all code. Now, almost 25 years later, I know a whole lot about it. But at that point, it was just code.

[00:11:23] Luke: Like source code.

[00:11:24] Beth: Exactly. I'm just downloading. I know that it's purpose energy as if downloading, but just becoming aware, I think is a more accurate way to say it. Because if you have a soul, no one's void of purpose. That I know for sure now. And so just becoming aware of it, I got some very strong messages.

[00:11:48] There were three things that became blatantly obvious to me. And one was that we all have sacred purpose, that I'm here for a reason. Even if I don't know what it is at this point, there's nothing that isn't purposeful in my existence.

[00:12:06] And I knew that if I was to die now, I wasn't getting out of it, that it persisted beyond the lifetime of my body. And it showed me how death is often unconsciously called in as an escape. Like, oh, good. And that's a big program we can talk about as well. And then the third thing was that-- actually it was four.

[00:12:31] There's another one, is that I have been chasing fulfillment, going to India thinking I'm going to get enlightened and then I'm going to be fulfilled. I'm working in a career to make money, and I'm going to get fulfilled having the things that I want and need. And then at that point, I realized I never again needed to do anything to become fulfilled. Because I was completely full, with nothing.

[00:12:58] And so I remind myself of that quite often, let's say. Because it's in one of those long-time habits that maybe is not just this lifetime, could be other lifetimes which can't be proven. But it's a machine, and it rolls like an AI without your tacit agreement. Or it is tacit agreement, not conscious agreement.

[00:13:22] Luke: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. One of the teachings that's been helpful for me in reconciling death, I think, and just attachments is David Hawkins. He would talk about how every anxiety, every fear we have is ultimately a fear of death. And he would do this thought experiment where he would unpack any fear.

[00:13:49] I'm afraid I won't be able to pay my rent. And then what? Well, then they're going to foreclose on my house. And then what? Well, then I have to go live with my parents. And then what? They're going to get sick of me eventually, and then I'm going to have to leave.

[00:14:03] And then what? I go live under a bridge. And then what? Then predation. I get robbed. It's like you can play out even the most minuscule fear. I mean, losing your house is a pretty big fear, but even smaller fears. I find he's so right or was so right that if you really just take it to the end of the what ifs, you die.

[00:14:23] That's literally the programming that's driving all of us all the time, when something doesn't go what we believe to be our way. Would you subscribe to that as a predominant programming that we're dealing with?

[00:14:39] Beth: 100%. Yeah, it is the root of the root programs that we deal with, and it's totally hidden. So interesting that you talk about that, what next, what next, what next? Because I offer a technique in my coaching and trainings called worst case scenario. And so they're afraid to go home to Canada. Because I'm now a marked woman on my passport, by the way, so they're a little bit of frustration.

[00:15:05] Luke: Congratulations.

[00:15:06] Beth: Oh, thank you.

[00:15:07] Luke: That means you're doing something right.

[00:15:09] Beth: I don't know if that's true in that case. So yeah, when you play it out, it's absolutely true that all the fears come down to this, so I'm going to hit the border, and they're going to detain me, and I've already been traveling, and something's going to go off with my health.

[00:15:29] You can see how it goes. I'll get home, and, oh, I can't work. And then all the money's gone, and I'll lose my home, and I'll be on the streets. And so it's exactly like you're saying. It all ends in death. And if you can get to that point of facing death for real, and that's the gift of my experience, is that I made it so, not that it's inherently so, because many people brush with death or die, of course, and they don't get any more, I don't really like that word enlightened, but it doesn't awaken them.

[00:16:05] So it's a choice. And yeah, death is the best teacher ever. For example, there was one question from my white-bearded guru on a mountain. He said, what do you think you're going to regret on your deathbed? And we all sat there and nobody answered, and he said to us, that which you regret right now.

[00:16:32] Luke: Did you eventually become disillusioned with your teacher in India as is so common?

[00:16:38] Beth: Yeah, exactly. It is more common than not, let's say. And it was the same year that I was diagnosed with cancer, that he was brought up under charges of pedophilia.

[00:16:51] Luke: Oh.

[00:16:53] Beth: Yeah. And many of his students came forward that were at least adults. There was only two children that I know of involved, but his students were all in some way victim to his antics. He's just one of those self-appointed Swamis, and he had a lot of people around him, not huge numbers.

[00:17:15] And that was one of the things that gave it credibility, because he only really had about 200 students at one time, and only about 800 worldwide. So it wasn't a really big movement of any kind. Nobody really heard of him. And I just tripped on him because I took a course in university in meditation. The instructor was studying in India with that guy. And all of a sudden, I'm like, I want to go to India because I was already going to Nepal. So I thought that looked really close. It's not.

[00:17:45] Luke: I always thought they were right next to each other.

[00:17:47] Beth: It seems like it, but the topography is like this. So I come from the prairies. I'm a flatlander. But I landed there anyway, and I took a lot of good from that. I want to say that it wasn't bad for me. I didn't have bad experiences. I got good advice from him.

[00:18:06] I made incredible leaps and bounds in my own personal development in just knowing myself, who I am, and having a foundation, at least, for what happens-- not what happens, but to cope with the mortality of our bodies. So it got me to a certain distance, but it wasn't until I had those exact words from doctors, "You're going to die," that I was able to see death for what it is.

[00:18:39] Luke: What do you think it is in the phenomenon of the fallen guru? It's something I've talked about a lot in the show. It's a phenomenon which I find really interesting because you can have someone that has true spiritual gifts and insights and is a powerful spiritual being that helps a lot of people.

[00:19:00] And I've had these experiences myself where my life has been absolutely transformed for the better under the guidance of certain people. And then after some time, they either veer into a dark place or they have always been and I just didn't know it, or one doesn't know it, and then things come out and you realize like, whoa, this whole time they've been a split personality situation.

[00:19:29] It's just a strange thing, and it's been part of my maturity, I think, is identifying my own gullibility and naivete and developing more discernment around people because it's easy to be bamboozled when the gifts that they possess are real, and they have a positive effect on your life and on the lives of other people.

[00:19:53] So it makes it really hard to see like, hmm, maybe there's something under the hood. So I want to get your take, but my analysis is two things. One is, when a being carries a lot of light, they become beacons for dark energies. And so if they're helping people and they're emanating higher consciousness, in the realms of lower consciousness, they're like moths to a light effect.

[00:20:25] And if they haven't been maybe properly trained by their teacher to watch out for that possibility and the understanding that while the ego might be more at bay for someone who has a level of self-realization, it's still there to some degree as long as you're in a body. And the ego can also form its own spiritual identity as a guru, spiritual teacher, and start to morph into that without you knowing, unless you're aware that that is a possibility.

[00:21:01] In other words, if a teacher loses the humility of their humanity and starts drinking their own Kool Aid, they seem to be more apt to fall prey to that deviation. Those are a couple ideas I have on it because I think it's really strange. And I've learned those lessons the hard way in a few cases, where I'm just like, wow, I was in a cult, and I had no idea, basically.

[00:21:30] I'm much wiser now, and I don't really look to teachers in that way. I have a bit of life figured out. I definitely have people that I go to for advice, but I'm not flying to India and kissing the feet of a guru at this point in life. But I have. So what's your take on how someone can be authentically spiritually powerful and insightful, yet at the same time be capable of evil?

[00:21:56] Beth: Well, I've thought a lot about this.

[00:21:59] Luke: I bet you have.

[00:21:59] Beth: Yeah. And it's not so far off what you're thinking, maybe a couple of tweaks. But I've been doing some work on ascension myth busting because the path of enlightenment that I was learning through the Vedic teachings and his presence was all about this enlightenment process where everything from here down is low class and everything from here up is more the realm that we're seeking and trying to attain.

[00:22:30] So it was like chasing a state of consciousness and chasing high frequency state of consciousness. So raising, raising, raising, raising, raising. And by getting so sick while I was doing that, it gave me a clue, like, something's not right here.

[00:22:50] I was partly willing to take responsibility while I wasn't doing it right or everyone doesn't do that, that I did to vacate my body because I was high as a kite all the time with the practices that I was doing. And my body was abandoned in that height. So part of the thing was to turn the arrows from outward to inward, more of an embodiment practice, and that definitely helped, as you can see. Again, I survived.

[00:23:25] But what I've noticed is at less critical levels, that building of high energy does in fact make you a target for low energy, but it's not so much moth to the flame, at least in my opinion. The higher that you get, the more offensive you are to lower energy.

[00:23:49] And in a way, it's a kind of right thing, because when you're high on your horse, and you're full of confidence, and full of courage and full of peace, you are more blind than people in low energy to the programming. So this was a discovery that on the emotion scale that actually David Hawkins and a lot of the work that I've come from came through Lester Levenson, again a very unknown-- have you heard of him?

[00:24:21] Luke: No.

[00:24:22] Beth: Okay. Very unknown guy. They both discovered the scale of emotion. And so everybody knows they don't like, say, apathy, grief, and fear. You know you don't like those. They don't feel good. We resort to apathy because the grief and fear don't feel good. So you want to numb out and feel nothing and not care, for example.

[00:24:44] And even the next three stages, lust, anger, and pride, there's a certain pain in them, but they feel way more powerful than apathy, grief, and fear. So there's a little bit of a clinging to the lust, anger, and pride. And once you go to the next emotions of courage, acceptance, and peace, then you feel like you arrived. Did I mention pride? Pride is in.

[00:25:08] Luke: Yeah.

[00:25:09] Beth: Yeah, yeah. And pride is a--

[00:25:10] Luke: Pride before courage.

[00:25:11] Beth: Exactly. You got it. Yeah. So the pride is a hide. When you get into pride, that's the first feeling of arrival. I'm good. Everyone else is not good, but I'm good. And if you can learn to recognize pride, it is hugely beneficial to you and everybody around you.

[00:25:30] And then there's a new addiction to courage, acceptance, and peace. Because again, you're just so much higher than you were. And so you have a new problem, your attachment to high energy, where in the lower energies, you're motivated to go looking for, okay, what's the root of this? What's the cause of this?

[00:25:52] And in the high energy, there's no motivation whatsoever. Your life tends to be going well. Things aren't blowing up in your face. You're not having big surprises. Oh, what went wrong? You got the flow state, maybe synchronicities, all that kind of thing are happening.

[00:26:13] Luke: I definitely have an attachment to that state.

[00:26:15] Beth: Right.

[00:26:17] Luke: And if there's anything other than that, it's alarming, which has been the case recently, actually. Over the past couple weeks, I've been going through some stuff, and I'm just like, God, I was going to be a contender.

[00:26:30] It's like, I had it. It's fleeting sometimes, that state. When you're used to it for a minute and then you drop back down into some of those lower levels, there's much more contrast. When I used to live in grief, apathy, fear, resentment, anger, it's like that was my predominant state of consciousness.

[00:26:52] And so I didn't know that it could be any different. And there's almost a comfort in that, even though there's so much suffering, and you literally don't know that there's another way to feel. And after some time of feeling better, as you describe, man, it's even more painful if you slide back into those very human but more uncomfortable states.

[00:27:12] Beth: Yeah, the tendency is to hang on by your fingernails to the high state. And I was always so devastated when I would come down again. I remember the day I was asking my guru, like, I was so awake. I was so high. And he gave some answer, like, I don't know, you have to come down because of the body, for the sake of the body. That was his answer.

[00:27:36] And I have to give more thought to that, maybe where the wisdom might lie. But at the end of the day, we are, I think, tricked and for sure trapped into chasing frequency. And at some point, we were told that, God, life, the source, however we want to, I don't know your preferred way to talk about that is, everybody has their way, but we know what we're talking about because we know that, that it's not a frequency.

[00:28:09] It's not a state. It's not a vibration. It is the source of the frequency, the state, and the vibration. And so there was a point where I was really aware of this and starting to see a lot more of the programming in my high states. For example, when COVID hit, I just defaulted almost 100% into courage because it was like, okay, it's time to rise, time to speak, time to say things that are going to cost me.

[00:28:41] And they did cost me. A lot of people like my family completely turned away from me and my son. But I just thought if there's ever a time to speak, it's now. And so I got in the habit of being encouraged. Every single day, I was doing something frightening, and it got me into that place, and a year into it, I'm vibrating in courage at some point and I'm going like, I don't think this is exactly the destination.

[00:29:08] So I remembered, okay, go looking for the programming here, and found all of those root core fears that we have. The number one is death, number two is control, number three is love and the approval of others. There's a fourth one also, the fear of not having or being one. So those are the root programs that Lester Levenson discovered, and he wanted people to be independent.

[00:29:37] Rather than having to go and sit by the flame, sit by the guru so that you get high, which is not enlightenment and not transformation at all. So that's a big distinction. You can get high without transforming. You can change your state.

[00:29:52] Luke: Ooh, that's a good one. That explains another baffling phenomenon about which I've had to earn more wisdom, is that, for example, not everyone that uses plant medicines on a regular basis is of high moral character.

[00:30:10] Beth: Right.

[00:30:12] Luke: To say it lightly. Because of the experiences that I've had that have refined my moral character dramatically, and I was already pretty refined before I started even working in those realms. I have my faults, of course, but from where I came from to where I am now, I'm a fucking saint, really.

[00:30:31] But I just thought, well, anyone that goes and sits with ayahuasca a number of times or uses Bufo or has any of these like really intense transformative experiences, their experience would have been the same as mine, and therefore they were going to be of higher integrity on the other side of that experience, because they got high and realized things about themselves that were inauthentic or out of integrity and cleaned them up, because that's what has happened for me every single time,

[00:30:57] But that's not the case for some people. To your point, whether you're using plant medicines or some breathing techniques in India or whatever it is, yeah, that's a really, really good teaching there. Getting high doesn't necessarily elicit transformation.

[00:31:14] Beth: And you can bypass the transformation by getting high.

[00:31:18] Luke: Oh, wow. That's good.

[00:31:21] Beth: Yeah.

[00:31:21] Luke: That's good.

[00:31:23] Beth: And here's the beauty, though, because at one point I'm so aware of all this and I'm wrestling with my high programming, and I say, God, why did you create suffering at every single level? Some obvious, some inobvious. And then I heard this, Beth, they are all doors to freedom.

[00:31:47] Luke: All the varieties of suffering.

[00:31:48] Beth: The whole of the human experience. The scale of emotion, it's an easy one to map out because it's slow, and they see water based as an element so you can track it, and you can spiral those emotions. They're very easy to travel. Whereas thoughts tracking, it's fast. It's air element. Good luck following a thought because by the time you go to track it, it's gone.

[00:32:16] Next one's there. And so, yeah, every level of suffering, can be physical sensations in the body, pain, anything that you're aware of internally is a form of suffering. That's maybe what the Buddha said, life is suffering. And if you go through it at any level, freedom is on the other side of it. So that's where, say, the biblical knowledge of that even the worst murderer, the thief can get to heaven at that 11th hour. I'm really butchering this. I'm not super biblical. Scholarly, is in the Bible.

[00:33:01] Luke: A bibliotician.

[00:33:02] Beth: A bibliotician. Yeah.

[00:33:04] Luke: I'm not either, so I wouldn't know the difference. I've tried to read the Bible a few times, and I can't-- I don't devalue it. Obviously, it's a meaningful work, but I have a difficult time getting past the language. I just don't understand it.

[00:33:18] Beth: It's so messed up. Just as a quick aside, shout out to Mark Archer that I've been interviewing. He's joined my association recently. And so we've had a lot of discussions. He reads the Bible in Hebrew and is translating it and creates books that are 1,000 pages big, several of them, and shows how things are not what we're told in these translations.

[00:33:39] We all know that somewhere, that things have been historically altered in the King James Bible. Oh, the Freemason Bible. Can I say that word? I didn't say it. And he'll even go like, the best thing ever is that there's two Adams. There's not one Adam.

[00:33:56] They made it look like there was one creation event, but there was two Adams and two lineages. Two lineages. There's, I'll say, us with living, breathing souls with the capacity for choosing right and wrong and free will of choice. And then the other lineage with no free will of choice that we call our elites or controllers.

[00:34:18] Luke: Interesting. At this point in life, I can find very few things that we haven't been egregiously lied to about. The nature of our realm, space, cosmology, medicine, the calendar, Latin-based languages-- huge, huge. The things that build the scaffolding of our entire existence have been lies, or at least partial lies, in some cases, full lies.

[00:34:53] So perhaps that's why, I've tried to read the Bible a few times during my life and just like, ah, I just get bored. I just can't dig my teeth into it, even though I know there's something there. Many years ago, somebody turned me onto a book called Sermon on the Mount by Emmett Fox early in my recovery days.

[00:35:12] Because it was very instrumental in the creation of the 12-step movement. They used to read that book before they had their own book. So I was like, oh, okay, this other book helped me a lot. So I'll read this Emmett Fox book. And that's probably the only really, very Christian centric book.

[00:35:31] And I've read a few of his books, but specifically that one where it was legible and very practical and applicable. Here's the principle. It's his interpretation, but that this is the underlying core principle that was being expressed by this verse that supposedly Jesus said.

[00:35:54] And that book got me closer to like, oh, okay. This is very meaningful. It's a very New Thought movement, 1920s, '30s, '40s, early metaphysical teaching that landed with me in a way where I thought, ooh, I can read that paragraph and then go do it in my life after I read it, and it will affect positive change. He was a British guy, and it's written in a very-- it's logical.

[00:36:21] You can comprehend it. He gets all of the dogma and theology and metaphor out of the way, and it's just like, boom. Here, in plain proper English, English, is what he was saying. And it made sense to me. But yeah, it's like, how can we believe anything? You get how many translations over thousands of years by the time you get the Bible in your hotel room in the nightstand drawer. What is that even?

[00:36:52] Beth: Yeah, exactly. And then the different varieties of God, and Mark always argues if I use the word God. He would rather go with the word Life because the word God in the Bible ends up referring more to the elites and the controllers. They want it to be God. That was the fall of Lucifer that said, this isn't good enough just to have everything and be the son of God. I want to control and be God.

[00:37:25] Luke: Interesting.

[00:37:26] Beth: Yeah. So that's why we get the version of God that needs sacrifice. It needs blood, that is vengeful, that is jealous, all of these horrible qualities.

[00:37:36] Luke: There's a phrase that always bristles me. I'm a God-fearing man. When I hear someone say that, I go, oh man, that doesn't sound like a very fun God. That's not the God that I'm praying to.

[00:37:48] Beth: I can't find God that I'm afraid of. That's where you go when you're afraid, right?

[00:37:55] Luke: Exactly. That's interesting. Man, there's so many different directions I could go here. I know what I want to talk about. I think people are familiar with the term spiritual bypassing, where somebody starts to meditate or get into yoga or do whatever they're doing as a way to avoid dealing with their core issues and traumas and personality defects and so on.

[00:38:24] And I'm sure I've done that at points in my life, and I've known many people that have shared that fool's errand. But there's another type or maybe another level of that that I see in the world that's even maybe more, I don't know dangerous is the right word, but definitely becoming very prevalent, especially if you follow like spiritual people on TikTok and stuff. It's kind of a new age bypassing where people are really into this-- and no offense. I'm not judging. It's an observation.

[00:39:00] I'm just teasing this apart. I've been through all the different phases of being lost in my life, so I'm speaking from experience, but it's like the 5D consciousness and Ascension, and the Palladians, and Atlantis, and Tartaria, whatever. It's just like there's this whole kind of New Age fantasy realm that's very alluring, I think for many of us who have been misled about the nature of reality to such a degree that now we're grasping for straws and just willing to grasp anything that seems to take us to a better place in life.

[00:39:35] But it seems that a lot of the new age stuff, for lack of a better term, just to put it all under that umbrella, is a major distraction, maybe even more so than just general spirituality, grounded spirituality, which can also be a distraction. But this is really a way of psychologically self-medicating to avoid the real boots on the ground work that has to be done if you want to evolve as a soul. Do you observe any of that? What's your take on that kind of obsession that so many people have these days?

[00:40:10] Beth: Yeah, I go on my intuition a lot, and my intuition kept not being interested in the Palladians and the-- I had some mermaid days that it came and went a little bit. Although there's still signs of it in my book, wasn't that long ago. But I do see it all as a major social engineering away from the incredible value of being here in earth or on earth, however you want to say it.

[00:40:38] I got little clues from some of your interviews that you might see it as a realm as well. This is the valuable experience. And so everything that's been painted, there's a fifth dimension to go to, and then there's the life after death, Christian version of that. And there's always something better than being right here.

[00:41:00] And to me, this is our true inheritance. This is the power. This is the place we can transform. And so no wonder we're sent-- because there is a certain truth to ascension. Because if you don't ascend, then you won't be able to heal nearly as easily. Healing from low frequencies is difficult and slow. It can be done, but it's like slogging it out.

[00:41:29] And it's easier because you see you have a problem. Again, what I was talking about, when you get up the scale, you don't see that you have a problem anymore. So that becomes hard. But if you know that the purpose is transformation, not ascension, then you use the ascension as a tool, not a means to its own end.

[00:41:55] So Lester had a great phrase that sums it up and he said, don't release to get high, get high to release. So there is a certain amount of ascension, and I teach a technique called spiraling where if you find yourself in a low state and you try to release and it ain't happening, and you know it ain't happening, there's no, I wonder if this is working or not, it's very obvious. And I was in that place this morning. I'll just say, full disclosure, I was in that place this morning.

[00:42:27] Luke: I was there three days ago.

[00:42:28] Beth: Okay. There you go. All right.

[00:42:31] Luke: Canceling meetings, the whole thing. I'm just like, I am not right. I got to get right.

[00:42:36] Beth: Right. There you go. There you go.

[00:42:38] Luke: Thankfully, that doesn't happen very often, but when it does, what I used to do would be really fight to get out of that state, and it was like trying to pull yourself out of handcuffs. And it was just like every move, they would just get tighter and tighter until you're completely bound.

[00:43:01] So I've learned just to, as best I can, surrender to it and just trust that there's a purpose in feeling uncomfortable for that period and just letting it ride itself out, which is hard to do if you have a lot of tools that can change your state quickly. But sometimes that's counterproductive, so yeah.

[00:43:22] Beth: Yeah. Because what you resist persists.

[00:43:25] Luke: Totally.

[00:43:25] Beth: So the more energy that you put into getting rid of a state of mind, the more cemented it becomes. So it's a double thing. And you're exactly right that that turnaround, that turning point can often be just, okay, allow it to be there exactly as it is without trying to change or control it.

[00:43:44] And as soon as you genuinely do that and you can't just say it, it's not lip service. That mechanism that's trying to get rid of it, it has to completely calm and dissolve before your eyes, and that is always an opening of some kind. And then what I was saying before, just about that, bringing yourself to a place.

[00:44:08] So noticing, oh, it's difficult to release from here, and then identifying. So I'm very big on precision because you can know you're stuck. It's obvious to you, but it's just a wall of stuckness. You have no idea why you're stuck or what exactly it is. So with the two things, the scale of emotion I've been talking about, and also the scale of archetypes that I write about on the hero's journey, if you can find yourself, then that's the beginning point.

[00:44:42] Again, not the destination. So you know exactly where the work is, and you go in very precisely, okay, here's the archetype that I'm in a shadow of. Here's how I feel about it, where I am on the scale. What's the program that is rooting this experience right now?

[00:45:05] And that's the difficult part. Because they're so invisible, they're so hidden, and they're so massively suppressed with all our might. And that's where all of the life energy goes. So this is how I survived cancer, was by letting go of programs, it let up the energy that I was using to both run and suppress the programs.

[00:45:28] The energy returned to my system because I don't know how to heal from cancer. It took me three years of troubleshooting and throwing spaghetti at the wall and trying every possible thing imaginable, at least that I could relate to.

[00:45:40] And once that energy returned to my system when I saw a massively out of alignment place that was hidden in my unconscious, that I didn't like about myself at all, I began to actually recover from cancer, and very quickly. There was still lots of time to just get my body back, get my strength back, because I was in a really low place, but I was definitely not dying of cancer anymore.

[00:46:10] Luke: Beautiful. A couple of days ago, when I was struggling, this is how crazy it got. I was wondering at certain points, and this is embarrassing to admit, and who knows, I could be right, that them, they, the naughties out there, the baddies, were transmitting frequencies to my brain or something and trying to torture me because I've been such a smart ass on my podcast.

[00:46:37] And I'm relatively unknown in the world, but in my little corner of the world, I talked to some fairly controversial people about controversial things. I'm not one to follow the rules, never have been, never will be. And I literally had the thought a couple of times, like, what if they're targeting me with energy weapons or something?

[00:46:54] That's how crazy I felt. And I could not shake it. It's like when you feel really uncomfortable, the mind wants to, of course, get to work, chewing on, trying to figure it out, so it can figure out how to make you make it stop and get back to feeling some semblance of comfort and your normal state.

[00:47:17] It's really difficult to just accept this is the way it is in this moment, and it's uncomfortable, and I'm just going to sit in the discomfort and just allow it to be without trying to change or control it. It's really easy to talk about, but when you're in it, it's such a core instinct to avoid fear and to pursue pleasure.

[00:47:37] So it's like, if you're feeling that pain, you're in it. Everything in you is going, okay, what caused it, and what can I do to get rid of it immediately? And so it starts, for me at least, reaching out into the outer reaches of reality for any possible thing, even if it's like, they're zapping me with special, unique chem trails, I don't know, whatever. It wasn't that, but something like that.

[00:48:01] That's how uncomfortable I was. It's just like, what is happening here? There's no explanation for it. Nothing has really changed in my life in a substantial way. There's always challenges, but it's like, what was different on Tuesday than on Friday? Nothing really. Why does Friday feel so insane when Tuesday felt relatively good?

[00:48:23] Beth: Yeah. I'm the same this morning. Exactly the same. Yesterday I wake up and I'm like, wow. You know, I slept last night. Yay. That's fun. I slept last night too. But here there's this big wall of something, and I'm going, okay, Beth, walk your talk. What would you tell a client to do right now?

[00:48:38] And I'm searching, and I can't see or find anything. It's just blur. And I did get to the bottom of it. I persisted with it. I was able to see exactly the program that was at play. And then I, over the course of the last few hours, was able to let it go. So that precision is gold.

[00:48:59] Otherwise, you can easily just go through and like, oh, it must be need a coffee or it must be I'm wearing the wrong thing today, or I must be I'm whatever it is. And that precision is priceless, absolutely priceless.

[00:49:13] Luke: And so in your model, this precision is identifying the archetype that you're enacting and the emotion or emotions that are present within that particular dynamic. Is that right?

[00:49:30] Beth: Yes. But it's not an order of operations because God created--

[00:49:34] Luke: That's my male mind. I want logical steps.

[00:49:40] Beth: I know. Many people that I train end up in that place. They're looking for the logical steps. But because God created everything as a door to freedom, then what you're really looking for is a point of entry into your own unconscious. A decision made that, I'm going in, and I'm going to allow myself to see and feel what I don't see and feel.

[00:50:00] And sometimes it's like, God, are you with me here? Can you show me what I don't see and I'm not feeling, not aware of? So yes, your first awareness could be the archetype like, oh wow, this is so incredibly child, what I'm experiencing right now.

[00:50:17] I feel like a little kid. I feel like I'm lost. I feel confused. I feel betrayed. I feel abandoned. I'm in denial, which is harder to see because that's pretty hidden. And so the shadows are so consistent from archetype to archetype that there's an immediate level of identification. I'm in the child.

[00:50:40] The gifts, not as much. There can be some blur. So it's not as precise, but the shadows are their signature patterns that doesn't matter where you are in the world, what time zone you're in or what age you're in, those archetypes are consistent. So they're a map that God created in the first place.

[00:51:07] So you might find that like, wow, it's really child. But you might just go, something like, I'm so angry, I'm so mad. Something happened to me 25 years ago or five years ago, and all of a sudden, I'm burning about it, and I'm grinding about it. And so that anger can be your point of entry. And then the program itself could be the point of entry.

[00:51:27] Once you start to learn to recognize them like a ninja as well, and have those signature vibrations, which is what I'm always teaching to be able to memorize and know that signature vibration for what it is. And not just in one state, but in all the states, because the signature vibration transcends all the states from the lowest to the highest.

[00:51:53] On the surface, it looks like it's a completely different thing. Somebody who's angry compared to somebody who's in peace, very different behaviors, different inner experience. But when you drill down and you see the program, that signature vibration is still identical, and that's the beauty in it. So you keep having the revelation over and over and over again, and some people get really sick of it fast because it seems like it's repetitive, but it's just so simple.

[00:52:23] God made it simple for us. And so it doesn't matter where you are at, you can identify some map where when you cross the threshold, when you decide, okay, I'm going in. I'm going to let myself have this pain that I've been trying to avoid having, and I'm going to make a new choice now out of a conscious awareness, including my logic.

[00:52:49] Because most of the unconscious decisions that we make, it's like our controllers that invert and make everything upside down. The unconscious is the same. We are literally terrified of freedom. It seems like someone's trying to kill us. And then death itself is like, oh, nice.

[00:53:11] We're drawing that in. Ooh, like that. That's good. Or the promise of escape, for example, we got a lot of attachment to that. And it can be a form of calling death, literally. We are as afraid of life as we are of death.

[00:53:31] Luke: Do you think we're afraid of freedom because of the responsibility that it brings?

[00:53:37] Beth: The power and the responsibility. Exactly. We've been conditioned and indoctrinated to be powerless, and we're often rewarded for being powerless. That's why people virtue signal like, oh, I'm so damaged over here. I had such a bad upbringing, or I'm wounded. And then they get approval for that.

[00:53:58] Especially these days and age, in Canada, where I come from, you cannot park anywhere if you're not disabled or gay or something like that. Sorry for that. If you're compromised in some way, you have a lot better life. But if you're strong and male and just capable and have your wits about, you're lowest on the totem pole for getting any kind of assistance. That's why I created here the King Hero's Journey podcast, to celebrate and support really strong forward moving men, not always men. I interview women as well.

[00:54:34] Luke: Yeah, I've listened to some of your episodes. You have some great guests on there. You have some of my favorite people, Cal Washington and a number of other people. I've been speed listening to it in preparation.

[00:54:43] Beth: Oh, good.

[00:54:43] Luke: Yeah. I'm like, I want to hear you talk more so I can learn more about you. But I got sidetracked because you've had some great guests on there. And I love the concepts you talk about. And we'll put that in the show notes, by the way, your amazing podcast. That'll be lukestorey.com/beth, by the way, for those listening. You can also click on that on most of your podcast app player thingies.

[00:55:05] More about the archetypes. This is not something I'm that familiar with. It's not a road I've really ventured down. I'm sure different people that teach about that model have different ideas. So I'm unfamiliar with the ideas generally and also the way that you approach them. So what's your take on, I guess, personality archetypes or however you frame that?

[00:55:28] Beth: Yeah, I take full license because I've done the vast majority of my studying inside. 97, 98% has just been here. And I want to know something for myself here, and then I'll go and look around and see, does it corroborate with other people's work or not?

[00:55:49] And so to me, archetypes are something that are not alive. They don't have a life of their own. They're not an entity, and we can only use metaphor words here. There's nothing that's going to be real. It's going to be like blueprint or lens or something that light shines through to give it a particular form. So it's life energy, God energy coming through, something that in and of itself is inanimate.

[00:56:13] But when the very same identical life energy comes through it and creates different expressions, that's where we get what we call personality. Now, to me, personality is the most surface level of an archetype, and at the depths of it is sole purpose. So all of these expressions that we have-- might not be archetypal.

[00:56:38] I was going to use color as an example, but the difference between somebody who is-- I'm going to use two archetypes that seem very similar that are in my hero's journey, the way that I found it inside myself, say, the rebel and the warrior. That's the second and the third stage of the hero's journey after the child.

[00:56:59] And so you might think, oh, those are the same archetypes. And I was even surprised when it came to me. I'm like, why would I include both of those? Because they're so much the same. It seems like there's enough blend. I don't need two of them. And then God's saying like, no, no, there's two.

[00:57:16] They're not completely different. Yes, there's always overlap with the archetype expressions, but their motive is different. Their reason why they do what they do, even if they're similar behavior. So there's the fighting aspect of the rebel, and this is very big in my life, in my story, in the reason I got sick with cancer actually.

[00:57:39] The rebel was a huge component of that. And so the rebel fights for change in its conscious expression when it's awake. But in the sleeping side or the unconscious side of that rebel, they fight because they're bored. They fight because they don't want to work. They fight because something got old and they want something new and exciting.

[00:58:03] So they bring it on through fighty energy, or they just go pick a fight because that brings them out of apathy and into fear, for example, or something like that. That's more exciting. But when you get to the warrior and fighting, fighting is going to be about championing. It's going to be about reaching a target and hitting goals and standing up probably for more than just yourself,

[00:58:31] It's going to be for the betterment of the people around you, for people who can't stand for themselves. And so the rebel is tasked with awakening, becoming a rebel with a cause. Now, purpose is the cure for every archetype, but in a different way. So becoming that rebel with a cause and you know why you fight and you know the exact changes that are needed and are going to be beneficial for people, where the warrior is actually learning how not to fight, how to recognize where is a strategic battle going to take place and where should it not take place because it won't be strategic at all? And it will maybe burn me out.

[00:59:17] And so there's just completely different expressions for, you could say like, oh, he's a fighter. Well, what kind of fighter is he? And that's the only two archetypes that could bring about fighty energy. So that expression becomes part of your self-awareness that, for example, with me and the rebel, I had so many bad experiences in my life and had a lot of retribution from that. I was brought home by the police several times, and I stole a car, and I spent a night in jail, and I was a teenage runaway. It had a pretty dramatic effect.

[00:59:57] Luke: Impressive.

[00:59:56] Beth: Oh, thank you.

[00:59:58] Luke: When you walked in my house, I would never have guessed that was in your past.

[01:00:01] Beth: I know. People usually apologize for swearing around me, like, no, no, you don't get it.

[01:00:05] Luke: That's funny.

[01:00:06] Beth: So I was doing all the wrongs, and it didn't go well for me. So I thought, okay, I'm not going to be like this anymore. I am going to turn this around. I'm going to be a good person. I'm going to be a normal person. I'm going to be somebody that fits in with society.

[01:00:19] I'm going to fit in with my family. I'm going to be approved of. I'm going to get everybody's love and approval because otherwise I'm getting everybody's disapproval, which is a form of the same programming, wanting love and approval, is wanting disapproval, by the way, at the signature vibration level.

[01:00:40] And so I thought I turned myself around. And that was around the time when I decided, okay, I'm going to work for my family, and I'm going to contribute to the greater good of my family's business and help them out. That was another archetype, the nurturer. And so I literally took my foot and put it on the head of that rebel and I said, you're done.

[01:01:00] We're over. We're breaking up, and don't let the door hit you on the way out. This is all unconscious reasoning, by the way, but I thought it was done. It was over. I turned over a new leaf. I went to school every day. I got straight A's and excelled in that and got the approval of all my people and everything.

[01:01:24] But what I had actually done, it was like cutting off my arm, or my leg, or my head in denying that rebel energy that is so authentic to me. And so it whittled away at my wellbeing for a decade until next thing you know, I have a stage four lymphoma. And it's a big emergency trying to get my attention.

[01:01:51] So the archetypes, they don't go away. They don't die. They don't stop becoming part of you. And a lot of people talk about integrating the shadows of that. I totally disagree. The purpose is to become self-aware and to make conscious choices about absolutely everything that I think is possible. I haven't done that yet, but I'm working on it.

[01:02:13] Luke: That sounds, from my perspective, synonymous. When we think of integration of shadows, so bringing to light those parts of yourself that you're normally not conscious of that are causing problems in your life or the lives of people with whom you share relationships, how is that not the same thing as saying, oh, I see over here sometimes I'm a bit manipulative. So let me bring that front and center, become aware of that as I live my life. And when I see myself acting that way, to be able to stop it, because now I'm aware of it.

[01:02:48] Beth: Right. So I think the only place it goes sideways, because I don't like to argue so much words anymore, because I know people often mean the same thing and we're just using different words, but where it goes sideways is in celebrating dark qualities.

[01:03:03] Luke: Oh, that's not a good idea.

[01:03:03] Beth: It's not a good idea. Do you like, oh, I just integrate? I'll just accept that I'm a manipulator, and I just do that, and I'll just be okay with that. Oh, there, I did it again. Oh, well, I'm just integrating my shadow, rather than redemption to actually change your ways to see you went wrong and to make a new turn.

[01:03:23] Luke: I see what you're saying. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm thinking of integrating shadow elements of the personality. I'm equating that to building awareness around them so that you can evolve past them. That would be my goal. Because it becomes the more self-aware one becomes, the more you get grossed out by your own shit.

[01:03:47] It's like, oh my God. I think about ways in which I behaved in my past. I don't feel guilt about it, and I've made restitution wherever possible, but it's just mortifying. So if I were to see some of those behaviors start to reemerge in my life today, they wouldn't last very long because of that awareness. Because I know the consequences of that behavior so well. So I'm going like, yeah, I'm a selfish person, and that's just the way I am, so I'm just going to roll with that. It's like, no, definitely not.

[01:04:22] Beth: Right. And that's the beauty. You said this earlier, how you expected everybody to have that awakening to, say, plant medicine. And I had the same perception about getting sick. I thought, oh, all you need is a life-threatening illness, and it will awaken you. And then I watched many people around me go through life threatening illnesses, including my parents and grandmother, many members of my family, and it didn't have that effect on them.

[01:04:49] I'm going like, huh? What's up here? There must be something different. And so the different part is the choice that you chose differently, that you saw there was a new choice, and you used it as a means to-- another biblical world word that I was actually happy for the time I spent diving into that in the last four years when it called me was repent.

[01:05:15] And you're right. Where you are, the more pain there is when you go wrong, the smallest little infraction is like, ooh, just like you got your knife in your own heart. And that's good, but you can choose not to be aware and not to change. And then our mechanisms for repression are so ready.

[01:05:43] They're always there. They're so practiced. I don't know if we'll ever get to a point that we don't do that anymore. Is that a complete inversion of our way of being we have been taught to suppress from the moment and we've been traumatized usually at birth? So there's a lot of reason for that suppression, and our inner experience has been weaponized against us, never mind the fact that we might actually be targeted.

[01:06:15] I'm not trying to support your paranoia or anything like that, but I have felt that at times too, that there is-- I don't consider myself to be such a big threat because I'm just talking about archetypes and life, and all of this kind of thing, and then they can my YouTube channel.

[01:06:36] Luke: Really?

[01:06:37] Beth: Yeah.

[01:06:38] Luke: Like deleted it?

[01:06:39] Beth: Yeah. Deleted it forever.

[01:06:42] Luke: Damn. I've noticed, well, obviously over the past four years, but even persisting until very recently, up until I think two weeks ago, I get these random emails from YouTube, we've deleted this episode. We've removed this episode because of community guidelines, blah, blah.

[01:06:56] And some of the initial ones I thought, well, I don't agree with it, but I can see why it got flagged. Because I'm talking to David Icke about the pandemic or something. All right. Well, that makes sense. But some of them that have been removed. One got removed with a woman named Dr. Robin Berzin, and this is like one I did years ago, and she's a legitimate, very mainstream functional medicine doctor.

[01:07:21] And we were just talking about natural birth, and she's not even like an anti vaxxer, none of that. Pretty, I would say, conservative, in that regard, very middle of the road and not controversial in any way. And I thought, wow, that is spooky. If they're flagging just the term natural and birth, those two words can't be together? That is diabolical.

[01:07:48] Beth: That's one of the most dangerous things, natural birth, because I think the controllers count on that instant trauma that almost every baby is born into. And I'm a very proud mama. I had my son out of the medical system. I went through great machinations and all kinds of inner work to get to that place.

[01:08:13] And then synchronicities like crazy. I was trying to get a midwife, but there was some weird mix. Actually, they weren't available because it was in such high demand all of a sudden for midwives. So my sister ended up getting me an appointment, but my brother in law answered the phone and said I was due in March, but I was actually due in January.

[01:08:35] So next thing you know, I'm in with this midwife, and they look at the thing and they're going like, oh, actually we can't take you. There's been a mistake. And I said, okay, all right. And they said, well, then you could just birth in the hospital. I'm like, no, sorry, not going to do that. And they're like, oh, we can't let you leave like this.

[01:08:51] Luke: What?

[01:08:52] Beth: Yeah, literally. They would have been highly liable if I walked out that door and anything wrong happened. So I had these caregivers, and then over the course of the pregnancy, I was having all kinds of visions that the caregivers were a negative in my birth. And I saw myself shutting them out.

[01:09:11] So I ended up being fired for the home birth. I was actually having some kind of psychic awareness at the time as pregnant women tend to. I got served papers. I didn't even get a phone call. I got served papers at the door saying you don't get to home birth anymore. And I'm like, well, I guess I don't have a midwife anymore.

[01:09:30] There was two of them. I'm like, okay. I'm not going to the hospital just because you're not in the picture. I knew too much by that point. I had many friends who'd been through hospital births, midwife births, and then they free birth after that because of what they had been through.

[01:09:47] And I thought, you know what? It was a miracle I got pregnant in the first place. I'd been through such enormous amounts of chemotherapy. They told me I would never get pregnant after it was all over. And I just thought, okay, I want to do this right the first time, so I really prepared myself. I had several doulas just to be able to consult with along the way, and then two that attended the birth.

[01:10:11] I had my hospital bag packed. I was down the street. If I got any intuition that I needed to go, I was ready to go. I wasn't fighting it because I knew that fighting it could very well invite it. So I was all surrendered.

[01:10:26] Luke: That's a good one. If you fight it, you invite it. That's a tweetable. No one follows me on Twitter, so it won't do us any good, but I like it. I like short, succinct, like, ooh, boom. That's punchy. That's a good

[01:10:37] Beth: Nice, nice. I like that.

[01:10:38] Luke: You fight it, you invite it. You heard it here first. lukestorey.com/beth.

[01:10:42] Beth: I said it here first too.

[01:10:44] Luke: Oh yeah. Is that the first time?

[01:10:46] Beth: Yes.

[01:10:46] Luke: I love it. That's great.

[01:10:48] Beth: Yeah. So everything went amazing. It was what told by the doulas, a textbook birth and extremely empowering to not be saved by anyone or anything and to cooperate with life in that. So to me, that is the most dangerous subject of all, to see the power that you can-- because it's an initiation for you.

[01:11:11] You are completely transformed by that experience if you're not being saved by it. It is a death experience, a death and rebirth that you have to go through that very, you don't know anything. There's no up. There's no down. Nobody can really advise you. It would only be pretending if they did. So yeah, I understand why--

[01:11:34] Luke: It is very telling that censorship would be going after that. It's so obvious. They want to funnel you into the system in a certain way and start your life-- they want to compromise you from day one. And when I say they, obviously, there's millions and millions of well-intentioned medical professionals that have no interest in harming anyone, but they're just indoctrinated into a system that was built before their time that they don't fully, I think, understand and certainly don't understand the implications of some of the common practices involved.

[01:12:16] I'm writing my own book, as I mentioned to you earlier, and one of the chapters is about exploring birth trauma. The book's about loneliness. And so what happens when you're not breastfed? What happens when you're a C section? What happens when they put the ointment in your eyes? Circumcision.

[01:12:32] Just like, God damn, in the first 12 hours of a kid's life in the West, at least, you were just absolutely tortured. And no wonder we have such a dysfunctional, insane society. It's so obvious to me. I always like to be fair. I'm sure if some of the interventions that I experienced weren't done, I might not be here.

[01:12:56] So it all works out like it's supposed to, and we all have beautiful challenges that we can overcome as a result of those experiences. But yeah, man, when they're going after free birth and wild birth and doulas and midwives, and you can't talk about such a fundamental, not just a human right, but it's the human right for a woman to give birth as she sees fit. It's like, I don't know if there's anything to protect at all, it's got to be that first and foremost in my mind.

[01:13:29] Beth: It's a hero's journey. And using the word right, it's also the rite of passage. And given that that's such a huge part of our purpose of existence in the first place, to rip people off of that rite of passage that has you transform from the maiden to the mother. Because a maiden isn't qualified to raise the child. And so that's a missing piece in a lot of the start of people's motherhood.

[01:13:59] Luke: Interesting. Wow. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Because in the process of the birth, there's also a death. It's like a woman is not the same woman she was, again, speaking. I wouldn't know, but I can surmise that a woman is a completely different person after giving birth.

[01:14:21] Beth: Unbelievable. I remember laying there with my son. I'm not particularly visual person, but at that point I saw in front of me, there were two roads, and they went like this. And I wasn't there anymore on that road. I was over here. And there was no bridging those two worlds. And yeah, it is, to me, the most transforming experience that you could have, but it doesn't mean that people can't transform without it.

[01:14:51] So I'll never put anyone down that doesn't have children in their life or anything like that. But it is a major opportunity, but not a given how many parents will avoid the transformation one way or another, whether it's at birth or at difficult moments, or the hunting of the child off to someone other than the parent is extremely common these days, not to say village shouldn't raise a child.

[01:15:16] It's just that if that primary caregiver decides that, oh, well, I can't work-- for example, I had an aunt. I don't think she's going to see this, but she's like, Beth, four months, it's time for you to put that kid in daycare and go to work. And I'm, uh-huh, because that's what she did, and that's how she damaged my cousin. Anyway, there's some resentment you can hear.

[01:15:43] Luke: We all have our family systems.

[01:15:45] Beth: Exactly. And I'm just like, no, I'm not doing it. My instinct is telling me to hold on to this child. And I did end up working actually fairly soon, but we found ways to do it. And as a self-employed person, I could totally engineer around all of the scheduling, and then the dad was also-- so it was me or the dad almost all the time, a little bit of my mom, tiny, tiny bit. And so we were able to do that without him going into an institution at the very youngest age. So that was a really good thing.

[01:16:20] Luke: Well-played.

[01:16:21] Beth: Thank you.

[01:16:22] Luke: Back to the archetype. So if our personality is somewhat set and our perception of reality is what creates our reality, do we have like a multifaceted personality that's acting through archetypes based on perception? Would that be an accurate way to describe what's happening there?

[01:16:52] Beth: For sure multifaceted. Absolutely true on that, that the level of complexity in our own internal life is staggering. And most people don't have time. I had to lay down for three years while I was sick, and all I would do was inner contemplation for the most part. And I was completely overwhelmed by the complexity.

[01:17:13] It was amazing to me. And I started to think like, how could people even possibly sort this out or begin to sort this out in a normal life where you don't have all that time? It's one of the reasons that I've been a fan of grossly oversimplifying the subject, to give people points of entry, so they could work right away and not have to go through a show stopping or take a vacation for five years or whatever it required.

[01:17:39] So the perception is colored by the lens that you're seeing through. And the archetypes are something that-- here's one possibility that I've thought about that we come in with a purpose, and then we are given these tools of the archetypes to accomplish that. What am I going to need for this lifetime in order to do what is necessary to be done?

[01:18:10] I'm making all this up, just want you to know, that it's just one possible way to see it, that I needed a strong rebel energy. I needed a strong nurturer energy. I need a strong lover energy. I'm not going to go in order here. If I did it it would be the rebel, then the warrior, then the nurturer, then the lover, the hedonist, the king, and the alchemist. And this is, I'll say, are they universal? These ones are actually fairly universal, but they're for sure universal in my world, in the people.

[01:18:47] And that was one of my revelations about purpose, is that it's not you and what you do in your living room. That's not purpose. It's always only relative to other people. And we have our exact people that it's like a lock and key fit for you to serve and be served by, not necessarily always in a reciprocal relationship.

[01:19:15] But that's a very big part of, for example, a healthy nurturer, is knowing who you help so that that mechanism that gets built inside a nurturer, because they're seeing through the lens of like, oh, you're suffering. I'd like to help you. I've already wanted to offer you coaching, by the way. That's just something that a nurturer wants to do.

[01:19:36] Luke: I think I'm pretty strong in the nurturer archetype too.

[01:19:40] Beth: Fair enough. It tends to be just so consistent around me. You see that as well inside yourself. And so we have these certain tendencies that the archetypes express, and then if you can narrow it down, say, there's eight that I wrote about on the hero's journey. There's other versions of that that are out there. Some are 12. Some are more complex. I made it simple for a reason so that it's something that people could jump on right away and start that work, like I was saying. Did I answer your question?

[01:20:17] Luke: Yeah. Yeah, you did. Sometimes my questions aren't really questions. They're just a thought bubble. But yeah, it gives me a better understanding. Because again, the archetypes model is, I don't know, just for whatever random reason, not something I've explored. I feel like I've looked into anything and everything that is interesting and going to lead me to a higher level of understanding and truth.

[01:20:42] But that's just one that's kind of just percolating over there. And I go, oh yeah, it's interesting. I get to it. And then I've just never gotten to it. So that's why I'm trying to get an understanding of it.

[01:20:53] So you have your book here, which we're going to put at lukestorey.com/beth. It looks like you're focusing on the nurture archetype right now. You've got a course, am I getting this right, about this particular archetype. So tell us about that. And why did you choose that out of the eight that you cover in your book to create a deeper level of learning?

[01:21:20] Beth: Right. So I think eventually there will end up being a course on every single individual archetype. And I currently do have a course that's all of the archetypes. And the hero's journey itself is an archetype. It's one of those that everybody is going through their hero's journey at some level. And steps and stages can be a little bit off.

[01:21:40] There was a time when every single book, every movie, every film, everything was the hero's journey. And they've just recently started to break that, which is really ugly because it's absolutely not satisfying. It leaves you just with a big X on your head. And you're like, what did I do that for?

[01:21:57] And so the nurturer is one that-- I was born and raised by a nurturer that didn't know it. We didn't know it, and she didn't know it. So a lot of nurtures in that world. My ancestors came through incredibly difficult times. So on my dad's side of the family, they were victims of the Bolshevik takeover in the Russian revolution.

[01:22:24] Just to the rebel side, for example, I have a great grandfather who was arrested for antagonizing the government. Not just doing wrongs, but he actively went out to antagonize the government, which I thought I'm kind of--

[01:22:36] Luke: My kind of guy.

[01:22:37] Beth: I know, exactly. I'm proud of that. I'm like, oh, I come by this, honestly.

[01:22:40] Luke: Yeah, totally.

[01:22:42] Beth: And so there was a lot of bloodshed, a lot of gory things, and my great grandmother was basically murdered. It took a little time for her to die of syphilis after all the rape and pillage going on. And they fled for their lives to Canada. So coming through that and seeing through the level of-- for example, when I had cancer, a lot of that information in my life came up in the context of what my ancestors had been through, that I was still suffering that at a genetic DNA level or whatever.

[01:23:18] If that DNA is real or not I don't know anymore. But I was carrying memories, literally physical memories of what they had been through, and that was a huge part of my healing. So the great adversity and the great pain gives birth to nurturers.

[01:23:35] Luke: Yes.

[01:23:36] Beth: The abused child becomes the nurturer. They start to take care of everybody. They start to take on that like, either I'm to blame, or I'm responsible. And that's, of course, the more awakened version of I'm to blame, and it's a desperate attempt to get control over the difficult circumstances. And so in our traumatized society, we have a lot of nurturers.

[01:24:02] I have attracted nurturers consistently. There's barely a person who would come through my door that doesn't have that kind of shadow going on in one form or another. Certainly found it inside myself, looked at it. And so I've promised for a long time to do a course on that particular archetype. And God's going like, Beth, when are you going to do that course? And I'm finally going like, I'm going to be on my deathbed going, I wish I'd run that course.

[01:24:26] Luke: And is the nature of this course live training or a pre-recorded video training? What does it consist of?

[01:24:35] Beth: This is the live one. So I always do it live first because I love the live element. That's why I do my podcasts live, and I'm loving this conversation because it's fully interactive, and I get instant feedback, and it shows me how to navigate, where to navigate. This is going to be a live course on Zoom, so it doesn't matter where people are in the world. They can take part.

[01:24:59] There's four consecutive classes weekly starting on July 10th, and for two hours we're going to meet on Zoom. There's another session adjunct to it that people can sign up for as well that is a nurturer's goal training. In a couple of hours, we're going to look at-- because goals are very difficult for nurturers to create, the reason being that they're already up to their eyeballs with a whole bunch of stuff usually helping people. So they don't set their own goals.

[01:25:26] Luke: Well, it's interesting the way that you describe the nurturer here in that if somebody has overcome profound suffering, I think unless you're a sociopath or psychopath, once you've overcome it, you're imbued with a really potent desire to help alleviate similar, if not the same breed of suffering in other people.

[01:25:52] You know what I mean? It's like you overcome cancer. You meet someone with cancer. You're like, whoa, here's what worked. Glad you asked. In my case, being able to get out of addiction, I spent 20 years daily, actively helping recovering alcoholics and addicts.

[01:26:10] At first, I think just because I knew that it was the key to maintaining that myself. I don't know if I felt almost ingratiated or something, like, wow, this thing happened for me, this grace from God was bestowed upon me. If I want to hang on to it, I need to share it with other people, as people had done with me.

[01:26:34] And then at a certain point it just became like, wow, this is just really fulfilling. It's just like, wow, this is the juice of life to be able to bear witness to somebody's transformation and to see someone just have such a dramatic change in their life and have such a positive impact on their family and society at large became very meaningful.

[01:26:52] Maybe there's a question here. Actually, thinking back to that, because I do less of that immediate one on one direct impact work and now just more abroad, like with this podcast, I don't really get a tangible reward for the people that might benefit from what I do in the world, but I get a few signs here and there that it's doing some good, otherwise I wouldn't keep doing it.

[01:27:18] But at a certain point, what I noticed was I started to actually use that nurturing part of myself and that element of service as an escape. It's just like, God, it just feels so good to just focus on other people's problems that I started to ignore some of mine. And then so I just stopped-- I just literally just stopped helping people, not helping people, but stopped working with people in a direct way, in that capacity, at least in the realm of recovery.

[01:27:50] It started to become a crutch or an escape for me, and I saw that. And also, there's something in it too, where there's an egoic identity where the ego feels special or important because it's the one that everyone's coming to for answers. You have a little squad of people that you're supporting, and at first, it feels really good to be the all-knowing, wise one in the group, the smartest one in the room, per se.

[01:28:21] And then, luckily, if one has enough self-awareness, you see like, oh, this is a trap. I don't want to be the smartest one in the room. I'm willing to help people, share some of the wisdom I've earned, but I definitely don't want to feel like I've arrived because that's a really dangerous place. Does any of that fit in in your model of the nurturer?

[01:28:38] Beth: It totally does. Yeah, so I have a phrase I use, the nurturer's high.

[01:28:43] Luke: Oh yeah, yeah. I know that one so well.

[01:28:48] Beth: It's signature. It's signature. And it's very blinding because you can be hanging from the ceiling on that high energy of helping and serving. It is a beautiful thing. We need more nurturers. So I'm not thinking that we should have less nurturers by any stretch of the imagination.

[01:29:05] The big thing is the motive. And so if your motive is to get that good feeling--God bless him. I have a good friend that just died, and he had mastered his whole life, or engineered, I should say, around helping people just going from one service to the next service, helping somebody move, or helping me get out of the fridge up the stairs, whatever it was.

[01:29:27] And he died young. Not as a judgment, but I couldn't help but see how he had burned himself completely out. And the biggest burnout of the nurturer is the contrast between the high and the low, because here's the other punchline of the ascension trap is that the higher you go, the lower you go, as above so below. You can't go high only.

[01:29:55] You're always going to be going in those two directions. So the nurturer is doing all the service. They're giving all their time, and their energy, and their money and their everything. But they're building this huge bank of low energy to contend with. It could be creating it. It could be just revealing it or both.

[01:30:16] And so because the high blinds the low energy, they don't do that work, and it's usually some kind of emergency that goes off, some kind of crash. All of a sudden, their health is down. All of a sudden, their wife is asking for a divorce. All of a sudden, they have no money for some reason.

[01:30:34] It's just gone and disappeared. Or their relationship with God is gone and disappeared. They can't tap in with that anymore. And so I call it the nurturer's pendulum swing. There's a lot of catchphrases and soundbites that came out of the study of that, how they go from wanting and actually helping everybody. And then they crash and they burn, and they put up their hands and they say, no, I'm not helping anyone ever again. Get away.

[01:31:03] And that's why, unfortunately, nurturers in the shadow can be some of the most cruel people of all. And they are completely out of alignment, because their purpose as a nurturer is to help and serve and support. So when they're in that place of telling everybody to get away, because they're just licking their wounds, and they realize that helping is bad news and it brings about bad things, then they will hate themselves.

[01:31:33] People hate it when I say the word hate. It's like death or, no, I don't have that. But if you look deep and you're very honest with yourself, you'll find it is a program. It's a love-hate thing, by the way, that there's two sides of that exact same coin. So they're busy hating themselves. And what do they do in response to that is they heal, could be amnesia, or they just go back to helping everybody.

[01:31:58] Because that was more like their true nature. But then they make the same mistake and it goes on and on and they just swing between the pendulum, which is why I created the training called Getting Off the Nurturer's Pendulum Swing. And in a very short time, we had a huge rush of people signing up for that one.

[01:32:17] I knew. God kept telling me, this is something you must do. Don't put this off anymore. Even though I didn't want to, because I was my own self in a nurturer's place going like, what if I burn out doing it? What if I give too much to it? Because when you're putting out anything new, you know it.

[01:32:37] It's a huge amount of energy and time, and all your routines get thrown off. As a nurturer, I had engineered my life so that the first half of every single day was just self-care. And I wouldn't start working until noon, 1:00, could be later. Every single day of my life was like that.

[01:33:00] Luke: That's my life right now.

[01:33:01] Beth: There you go. We have lots in common.

[01:33:03] Luke: It's like today you were 15 minutes early. I'm like, I'm not ready yet. I'm still doing my ice bath.

[01:33:07] Beth: Yeah. Oh, I heard myself in that when you said no. Because I'm the same. I'm like, I told you 12:30. I meant 12:30.

[01:33:15] Luke: Had you been early, it would have been fine, but since you gave me the choice, I was like, actually I could use these 15 minutes to get my head together so I can be my best self by the time we're in these seats.

[01:33:24] Beth: Totally. And that's beautiful. That's a healthy nurture right there, that you're not going to compromise your own wellbeing. Because you know that that's going to take away from the wellbeing of everybody.

[01:33:35] Luke: 100%.

[01:33:36] Beth: But here's the catch, is that there will come times that life will invite you to completely disrupt the routine and the pattern. And there are good times for that. So if you're really stuck in the shadow of what I call policymaking that nurtures do, it's like every day it's this and it's not that. And if it's not that, then-- I'm sure you would have been flexible if I was like, I have to come in right now.

[01:34:03] Luke: Totally. I have an interview with Josh Axe on Friday, and he's just here for one day. He's like, only time I can do it is 10:00 AM. And I'm like, oh God. I went back and forth texting. I'm like, oh man, I want to agree. And then of course, the minute I do, I'm like, what was I thinking? 10:00 AM? I can't talk to anyone at 10:00 AM.

[01:34:23] But of course I'm doing it. It'll all be fine, but I do like those exercises of pattern interruption on oneself. And what's funny, I find too, because I have all these, and if rigid is the right word, but I have a very specific lifestyle for what seems to work for me and my family and all that. But I do find sometimes, I'll change something up.

[01:34:46] That's a very insignificant example of that, but I don't know, maybe I wake up at 7:30 and my wife's like, oh, hey, I need you to drive me to this place at 8:00, which would be like, no way would I ever do that. And then I do it and I realized, wow, this is great. I got a really great early start on the day.

[01:35:02] We're home. It's 9:30. I'm ready to do my thing. Oh, wow, I could have lived my whole life having no idea that that was even a possibility for myself because I created these structures and confines according to what was maybe appropriate five years ago, but might not be now until I test it out and see, oh, wow. It can be different. It's interesting.

[01:35:23] Beth: Brilliant. Yeah. So that's a lot of evolution for the nurturer in you.

[01:35:27] Luke: That's fun. I want people and myself included nonetheless, lukestorey.com/nurture is the link we're going to put for your course, which I think comes out the day after this podcast will air. July 10th, 2024, your course starts. So that's lukestory.com/nurture, and a code there will save you 20%, is LUKE. And we'll put all of that stuff, again, in the show notes at lukestorey.com/beth.

[01:35:57] Let's talk about controlled opposition. You mentioned that earlier. I'm like, ooh, I got to talk about this. I love to wear my make duality one again shirt. Whenever I'm going to be talking about these realms of dark and light with people, I like to wear this shirt, which you can get at lukestoreymerch.com, folks. Just kidding. But I've noticed in the past four or five years, whatever it's been that masses of people are waking up to the realities of our world as dark as those realities are at times.

[01:36:34] And so things that used to be considered fringe conspiracy theories that I've been into since probably the year, whatever year 9/11 was, 2001 was that? That's when I started going down these rabbit holes and got lost on many of them and found at times that my worldview was pretty dark the more I started to learn.

[01:36:58] So I've had an ever-evolving relationship with what we might just term truth seeking, and just seeking a deeper level of understanding. Part of it is just my inherent curiosity, my just such a high value placed on truth, speaking truth, knowing truth, someone that lived in illusion for so long in my life and was so dishonest for the first 27 years of my life.

[01:37:28] So in the past four years when this totalitarian tiptoe started to really take bigger steps forward in terms of the state's control and subversion and erosion of our rights and all of that, I've seen a lot of new personalities and content creators emerge in this space. It used to be, I don't know, you had Texe Marrs, Jordan Maxwell, Alex Jones, David Icke, a couple that I'm probably-- who's that?

[01:37:58] Beth: Freeman.

[01:37:59] Luke: Don't know that one.

[01:37:59] Beth: Oh, you don't know that one? Okay.

[01:38:00] Luke: No, no. But you had the figure heads that were producing alternative content, and they'd have really poorly produced videos on YouTube that weren't censored. And you had to really dig and know what you were looking for. And you'd come across some fringe book, and then that would lead you to the videos and so on.

[01:38:18] But there was a small group of people who were the thought leaders or, lack of a better term, influencers, that were sharing this counterculture information. And they weren't really censored because very few people were listening to them.

[01:38:32] In the past few years, you have all of these mainstream doctors that are now coming out against the bioweapon or that were at some point blowing the whistle on masks and social distancing, and you have masses of people that are building media empires and platforms based on truthers, this kind of thing.

[01:38:55] So in that, I've observed that there's a lot of infighting amongst those people and a lot of finger pointing. Oh, they're controlled opposition. Oh, they're not real. They're not real. They're not real. So my question is kind of this, is it possible that some of the people that I'm describing are truly controlled opposition where they are working for the bad guys, or is it all just a plot from the bad guys to get all of us that are interested in truth and freedom in fighting? You know what I'm saying?

[01:39:30] And I don't know that there's an answer to that, but what's your take on that? Because I feel like it's probably some of both, but I think there are far fewer true controlled opposition characters on the scene than people believe and that a lot of that is propaganda by the other side. Let's call them the other side, just the people who are anti-humanity, anti-life.

[01:39:54] I think they implant these ideas into the sphere like in a QAnon psyop way to just get us all confused and not knowing who to look to. Because some of the people that have sat in the seat where you're sitting have been accused of being controlled opposition.

[01:40:08] And my discernment is pretty good. And I spend two or three hours with someone, they might hang out at my house for five hours at a clip, and I'm like, there is no way this person is faking it. They might be mistaken. They might be misled about certain topics that they talk about, but there's no way they're a CIA asset working for the bad guys, pretending like they're a good guy. No way.

[01:40:30] Alex Jones being one of them. And I asked him flat out. It's just like, dude, I spent a whole day with that guy. He might be wrong about some things, but he's not reporting to anyone. There's just no way. That's my opinion.

[01:40:42] Beth: Nice. I really enjoyed your interview with Alex Jones, and for that exact reason, that he's been so perfectly branded as controlled opposition. So if you asked me, is Alex Jones controlled op, I'm like a firm yes,

[01:40:57] Luke: Really?

[01:40:57] Beth: Oh yeah.

[01:40:58] Luke: That's funny. That's so funny. I'm just like, how could someone be that good of an actor? Here's one more thing. I'm sorry, I'll let you talk because you're supposed to be the one talking. I think sometimes a personality like that might talk about a level of truth to a certain point and then there's, for whatever reasons, not because they're being told not to necessarily, but there's topics that they don't really breach because of whatever reason.

[01:41:29] And so they talk about truth up to the 90% point, but then there's this 10% that's just a little too far out or is going to get them in too much trouble or whatever. And so they leave out an important and relevant 10% of truth, and then other people that are seeking truth know that they're omitting that 10% and therefore discount everything they do and say because they know they couldn't possibly not know about that 10%.

[01:41:58] But for whatever reason, they've chosen to gatekeep a certain threshold of information that they share. It seems to me that that, like with a case like Alex Jones, that that would be possible. There's things that I think he would know about that he doesn't talk about, and that makes me wonder why, but I don't think that everything that he's sharing in the world, although I don't agree with all of it, I don't think all of it's correct, is an act to just throw everyone off and get everyone all confused. But anyway, that's things that I lay awake at night thinking about and all this.

[01:42:36] Beth: There you go. Yeah, I have lots to say about this--

[01:42:38] Luke: Great. This is good. I can't wait.

[01:42:40] Beth: And did a deep dive. Yeah. I was wondering if it was going to come up or not. And actually, when I watched your interview, I was so glad to have seen much more of the humanity in him. Not that I wasn't seeing it, but he has a show. And sometimes he's jumping up and down on the desk.

[01:42:55] Luke: He's a performer.

[01:42:55] Beth: And he's a performer. Exactly. And it turned me off. I'm always going with my spidey senses and my intuition and not so much research. We have a lot of researchers in our influencer pool now that's so big, like you were saying. And I'm not that person to go down the rabbit hole and look at every association they have and stuff like that.

[01:43:14] I will just notice that I have a certain intuition, and then I'll wait for other signs. And then there are often other signs that come through other people's research or something to corroborate, to match up, and there will be three, four dings, and you're more or less out, is where I was coming from.

[01:43:36] And it was really about where to put my time and energy. And despite all my experience in India and being disillusioned by a guru, when 2020 hit, I needed a guru. And that's one of the reasons I was podcasting. It's like I need to talk to the person who knows, who can lead us out of Egypt.

[01:43:55] Whether it's the law thing, or the health thing, or the remedies, I know they're out there. I need to find the people with the remedies. And I was continuously disillusioned, especially in law, let's say, because we did a lot of law series, huge number of interviews, and I was just trying to crack that code.

[01:44:13] Luke: Me too.

[01:44:13] Beth: Even though you did. Yeah, yeah.

[01:44:15] Luke: Oh yeah. That's next in my line of questions.

[01:44:17] Beth: Okay, okay.

[01:44:18] Luke: If we have time, we'll get to some of that too.

[01:44:19] Beth: Okay. I won't go too deep into that now then. And so I would inevitably find out that there was things that were sideways. It could be outright lies. It could be, like you're saying, that 10%, or even 5%, or 2%, but a really important 2% that if you left certain things in place, they would be so astronomical in the effect. So one of the things I really glommed on to, and I don't know where you stand with this one. I haven't heard you talk about it necessarily, but was the germ theory.

[01:44:56] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[01:44:57] Beth: And they created that war between germ theory and terrain theory.

[01:45:01] Luke: This was one of the recent examples of that. And hold that thought. I had Dr. Peter McCullough on who was a great guy. Spent a few hours over here. Another example that I alluded to earlier, very authentic, humble, intelligent, funny, gracious, really cool guy. I asked him, well, have viruses actually been isolated properly?

[01:45:23] He said, oh, that's just a conspiracy theory, germ theory thing, and totally discounted it. And I don't agree. I'd be on the terrain theory side, although I'm not even knowledgeable enough about it to like refute it. I didn't argue with him about it because I don't really have a standing.

[01:45:42] I'm learning. And as I said earlier, we've been lied to about so many monumental things that I just don't trust any of it now. But yeah, he was not having it. He believes in germs, and viruses, and virology, and all that. So good for him. And then people were bitching at me on Instagram, like, oh, he's controlled opposition.

[01:46:04] Why didn't press him? I'm like, dude, this guy's been celebrated, highly successful clinician, I think he's a cardiologist, for 40 freaking years. Do you think in a two-hour conversation in my little hippie den I'm going to convince him that germs don't make people sick and that contagion is a myth?

[01:46:24] It's not going to happen. And if it was going to happen, I'm not the guy to do that because I'm humble enough to know I don't understand it well enough to make a compelling argument to him. The thing that pisses me off about it is, in that case, people are getting mad at me for having a podcast with him.

[01:46:41] Meanwhile, I'm sitting there going, okay, you troll that's bitching about this, how many people have you individually specifically, and answer this honestly, help recover from the bioweapon injury? How many people have you prevented from getting the bioweapon? You know what I mean? It's like, is the guy right about everything?

[01:46:59] No, he's still in the mainstream paradigm, but my barometer of having a conversation on a podcast with someone and platforming them, as they say, which is a stupid term, are they a net positive for humanity? And I use my intuition and my gut, and I don't agree with everything that Peter McCullough says, but I think he's a net positive.

[01:47:20] He's waking up a lot of mainstream people. Is he controlled opposition because he doesn't want to talk about germ theory or acknowledge that it's a possibility? He was in an event with Alec where Alec did a really compelling presentation on this topic, and Peter McCullough was there and either ignored it or didn't agree with it.

[01:47:41] And so it's not like he hasn't been exposed that information. He just doesn't agree or doesn't want to talk about it, and that's his right, but it doesn't negate all of the good he's doing in the world. That black or white thinking is really irritating to me.

[01:47:57] Beth: Right.

[01:47:57] Luke: So anyway, I'm so sorry for interrupting you. If any of you people listening are the ones commenting on my Instagram, there's my rebuttal to that. Ask yourself, how many people are you really helping in your real life? And if you're helping more people than Peter McCullough, then God bless you, and you can come at me again.

[01:48:16] Or people were bitching because he sells supplements. I'm like, what do you think I do on this show? Well, who pays for all this shit? I sell supplements, not my own. So the guy makes a spike protein systemic enzyme product. It's awesome. I take it. Great. I hope he makes a billion dollars helping people dissolve their spike proteins.

[01:48:36] And then you'll have the people, I don't believe in spike proteins. All right. I don't know what to tell you. You know what I mean? Systemic enzymes are still really good for you. So he makes a great product. Let's all get over it. Let's stop infighting. We're all, I think, on the same team. You're either pro humanity or you're not. Those are the two camps. Anyway, that's my rant.

[01:48:56] Beth: I like that rant. It's a good rant.

[01:48:58] Luke: Thank you.

[01:48:59] Beth: Yeah, yeah. You're welcome. It was quite an evolution, and I think we probably went through similar process at the beginning, I don't know how many times a day I would say controlled up alert. Because on my own say Telegram groups or Facebook or whatever, people would be posting things, and they were promoting it to me, the people that I had already decided to work controlled op.

[01:49:20] And so I was a little bit of a mission, like, don't follow that guy. He's taking you sideways. At least I didn't have the shadow of going out, finding people and arguing with them. But if he came in my world and tried to promote characters, I became certain that there was something that wasn't a net beneficial.

[01:49:40] It's not even a balance of enough good and bad. That is actually more of a satanic perspective where there's an accounting. How much good, how much bad, what does it weigh out at. And I don't think that that's really our-- here's another soundbite. Balance is bullshit.

[01:49:59] That's not what we're trying to attain here at all. And so there was that frame of mind where I was just certain, and there was and of policy turning away. That guy had like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I don't listen to them anymore. I don't promote them anymore. I'm not going to have them on my show anymore. Although I did.

[01:50:21] And I started using my show to vet them, because if I could ask my questions and I could look in their eyes, even though we're on the screen, for the most part, I don't do in-person interviews, then I could feel into them to give me some conclusion. And it was noticing all these really specific qualities that you couldn't just say controlled op and have it be meaningful.

[01:50:48] So that was my controlled op alert thing. It was shallow to me, and I wanted more from that. So I turned to the archetypes because I was seeing patterns between different people and different characters. There's some super obvious that they have such a-- it can be branding. Because I came from the marketing communication world, I'm very sensitive to branding. We went to a restaurant this morning, The Big Idea. I don't know if you're familiar with that one.

[01:51:20] Luke: I don't get out much.

[01:51:21] Beth: Okay, good. I don't either actually.

[01:51:24] Luke: There's seed oils everywhere, man.

[01:51:25] Beth: Oh, yeah. I know. We're the same.

[01:51:27] Luke: We don't leave the house much. I don't know. Probably my age. Nervous system just feels better, not indoors, but just out of cities. Got to go to cities to get good food. Austin has great food if you're willing to fry yourself with 5G for a couple of hours.

[01:51:45] Beth: Right. Exactly. I know. Oh man, we might have had the same mother or something like that because we've gotten similar. So I started to break it down because I'm a fan of archetypes, and I'm a pattern hunter. So I went and looked, and what are the distinct qualities I really studied that are there.

[01:52:04] So I came up with, in my memory, again, eight archetypes. I haven't looked at this until I got finished. I got full, and I don't really need to look back on it because I came to a conclusion, which I'll share with you. So I'll just name a few of them that you'll recognize. So there's the candy man. That was the first one that came through, and they're selling the fear. So is it fair to talk about Alex, or should I use other examples?

[01:52:28] Luke: Oh, no, it's fine.

[01:52:29] Beth: I noticed this in the interview.

[01:52:30] Luke: This is an open book conversation. And I don't say anything in my personal life or on the show about anyone that I wouldn't say to their face. So if Alex comes back over, I'll say, oh, I had a conversation with someone and here was her perspective on you. What do you think?

[01:52:47] Beth: Right.

[01:52:47] Luke: It's all good. This is a free market of ideas. Imagine how boring a society would be if it was a homogenous circle jerk where everyone agreed with each other. It's like, who wants to live in a world like that? I like diversity of thought, and I also like to mix it up a little bit. So if you have ideas on Alex Jones or anyone else, it's very interesting to me.

[01:53:11] Beth: Right on, right on.

[01:53:12] Luke: And I don't think he would be offended. He's not easily offended.

[01:53:15] Beth: No, exactly. He's got a thick skin.

[01:53:17] Luke: Probably not. He's probably impossible to offend.

[01:53:20] Beth: Exactly. And it was really good because working with the archetypes depersonalized the whole thing, and it stopped becoming about my accusation of somebody, which is all full of holes if you get right down to it. It doesn't hold water. And I'm going for my spidey senses here.

[01:53:37] So it's not even based in fact. Other people might have come up with facts that can support that. So what I was able to conclude is that certain people do fit the patterns, and they'll fit more than one pattern. So Alex talking on your show, he went from a great deal of openness and even vulnerability, and it was a very organic, beautiful discussion.

[01:54:03] And then there was towards the end, in the last hour, he ramped up the fear. And you could see his nervous system ramped up. It's a certain power, but it's fake power that's coming through when you're delivering fear. He's either scaring himself, or he's programmed to deliver fear, which can be just programming, not controlling, not that he's necessarily controlled by a handler, which is one of the archetypes as well that you never see.

[01:54:31] So it's impossible to know exactly where it came from, but he was definitely pushing the fear. And I could feel my own nervous system like, wee, because I don't listen to the fear anymore. That's one thing that for the most part-- or I take it in very small doses and I don't spend my time there because I'm here to create, and I've got a lot of work to do.

[01:54:52] And if I get stuck in fear, then it just gives me a lot of timeout kind of thing. And so the Candyman, they push the fear. They can also very much push the anger. He's good on both scales. He'll go on fear, and then he'll piss you off the same kind of way. Alex fits another one of the archetypes that I call the clown, with all due respect, because I actually did have a lot more respect for him after your conversation with him.

[01:55:21] But when you jump up and down on the desk and the normal person, "tunes in," they're going to go like, oh, whatever he's saying must be garbage because he's turning this into a circus. They discredit the truth. They weaponize the truth. So they're saying the truth, but they're saying it in a way that ends up discrediting the truth.

[01:55:45] Luke: Interesting.

[01:55:46] Beth: So that's another sign. Yeah. One of the archetypes was the outright Satans. And they're, in my mind, the only ones that might actually know what they're doing. The other ones might be secretly handled.

[01:56:00] Luke: Like in controlled opposition context.

[01:56:03] Beth: That's right.

[01:56:04] Luke: Where someone's just a complete actor pretending like they're like truth or freedom, patriot people, QAnon shit.

[01:56:11] Beth: That's right. That's they're actively misleading people. They sold their soul to the devil, and they have a price to pay. There's a fair amount of the characters that spend some time in jail, and my intuition tells me they got out of jail by agreeing to periodically come out with certain kinds of information, especially in the law world, because there's so many psyop. Everything is a psyop as far as I'm concerned in the alternative law world after really going down that rabbit hole.

[01:56:39] Luke: Oh shit. I can't wait to talk about that.

[01:56:44] Beth: You had other archetypes in there. Nothing's jumping out of me that I'd have to look at my notes to even see.

[01:56:52] Luke: So with the controlled opposition, like anything in life, there are degrees. There's someone who wants to make money from a platform.

[01:57:06] Beth: A grifter.

[01:57:06] Luke: Okay, grifter.

[01:57:06] Beth: Yeah. Major.

[01:57:07] Luke: Well, it's funny. The archetype or term grifter is a slippery one because I've noticed people that are critical of people like me in the alternative health space or spiritual teachers or coaches, people that don't like this kind of culture that's very prevalent in Austin, by the way.

[01:57:34] Just people into personal development, fitness, biohacking, whatever-- no pejorative. What's that word? The put down. That's a good word though. I'm going to learn that word and use it at some point. That's a good one.

[01:57:52] The term that's used a lot is a grifter. I've had people troll me and say, oh, he's a grifter. He's pushing supplements or whatever. And I'm like, I don't like-- I feel defensive about it because I know my own integrity when I fall asleep at night with me.

[01:58:09] I know what I'm doing in the world. I have enough self-awareness to know that if I'm being dishonest, or manipulative, or salesy, or just trying to get money and power. I would know that. And so I know if I'm not doing that, that if someone were to accuse me of being a grifter, that to me is a snake oil salesman or someone who is knowingly deceiving people for their own benefit.

[01:58:32] But that term is thrown around a lot in these circles for anyone that is trying to make a buck with their content platform or whatever. It's like, how do people think all of us are paying the bills? You can't have a job and do this full time. You would have to be two people with two timelines. You know what I mean?

[01:58:51] So it's like the grifter one, I think I get defensive about, because I'm like, well, how else do we do this? You have to make a living unless you have a trust fund or something. Unless you're independently wealthy and you can just spend 15, 20 grand a month on your content and your team, which probably actually mine's much more than that.

[01:59:12] But then again, back to the degrees, there are grifters who are knowingly lying and manipulating and selling snake oil, whether it's a physical product or some online program or something like that, that know they're scamming people that are in some weird MLM or whatever. So I don't know, it's difficult to ascertain the real from the false because you could accuse anyone of being a grifter, no matter what they're selling.

[01:59:44] I could call my insurance guy a grifter because he's trying to sell me on this particular homeowner's insurance or something. It's like, well, someone has to do that job. So it's a matter of whether or not he's honestly marketing or promoting his product or service. It comes down to integrity and honesty more so than what you're actually doing.

[02:00:05] Beth: Yeah. So I make a huge distinction, or there is a distinction. These are both archetypes is between the entrepreneur and the grifter.

[02:00:13] Luke: Oh, okay.

[02:00:14] Beth: Right. So I was born and raised by--

[02:00:16] Luke: There you go. There's my answer. I talked for 20 minutes just to get that one sentence answer. You're very good at concise answers. Thank you.

[02:00:22] Beth: There you go. Yeah. And I have a lot of respect for the entrepreneurs because they are the creators. And there's a whole bunch of things that couldn't have come into existence without you doing this, what you do, and bringing information forward that people couldn't otherwise necessarily ever access.

[02:00:39] And it is a service, and I never hold it against anybody that they want to make money doing their work. Because otherwise, what's the alternative? They go get a job. They work for the man. They hate their life. They get a stage 4 lymphoma, whatever. And I even wasn't even working for the man. I was working for my dad.

[02:00:57] Luke: I've had a couple of jobs that didn't agree with me.

[02:01:00] Beth: I had two and a half jobs. I was fired from both of them. Yeah, they wouldn't get me.

[02:01:05] Luke: I worked retail for a couple of years, man, in a tiny little store about the size of this room. I have so much empathy for people that have a job and have the belief that they can't get out of it. And that's the only way that they can sustain their life. Man, that was brutal, like a caged animal. Literally, when you see a tiger in a small cage at the zoo and they're just like pacing around, that's what it felt like. I was like, I got to figure something out. Thus was born the entrepreneur.

[02:01:34] Beth: Exactly. So here's a little bit of a difference with the grifter too in the shadow, is that the grifter has identified, oh, people are afraid. They are looking for solutions. Well, I'm going to invent one, or I'm going to come forward with this one, that maybe I've been programmed to come forward with.

[02:01:54] Or, in fact, it could be even more authentic that I did use some of these means. As we've seen in the law world, some things do work sometimes. And you can't explain it, but neither can you duplicate it. And so it's not really true if you can't duplicate it. And then they'll come out with these really highfalutin and can be incredibly complex and, oh, surprise, surprise, incredibly expensive processes that you need them to walk you through.

[02:02:22] And there are a dime a dozen out there. They're 100 different ways you can go and spend all your money. They're feeding on people's fear. They know people are afraid and looking for solutions. And when I get in front of a live audience, I'll say like, how many people made a purchase during the COVIDian madness that they would never have otherwise done? I know I got a tiny home, and I got a truck.

[02:02:54] Luke: I bought a bunch of guns.

[02:02:56] Beth: I'm not allowed to admit that, and then we want to move to Texas, by the way.

[02:03:00] Luke: Yeah, that's the first thing I did when I moved to Texas. I was like, ah finally

[02:03:04] Beth: Right.

[02:03:05] Luke: You can get guns in California, but it's a bit more of a process.

[02:03:08] Beth: Yeah.

[02:03:08] Luke: But yeah, to your point, I wouldn't have had such a sense of urgency about that had we not been under the looming imposition that we were. I didn't know how much worse it was going to get. So I'm like, well, if I got to hold myself up in my house, be heavily armed and the bioweapon police come to check my papers and want to give me a shot in the arm, that's not going to happen.

[02:03:36] I'll go down swinging. But that's literally the kind of thoughts I was having. And thankfully it didn't get there yet. But as you know, from your family history with the Bolsheviks, it's not like they just go take a nap. They just try a new method to--

[02:03:51] Beth: Rinse and repeat.

[02:03:53] Luke: Yeah.

[02:03:53] Beth: Exactly. So you know it's a very real possibility. Also, my mind is always working on archetypes for some reason, and I knew that I'd identified eight shadow archetypes. Now, no archetype is full on shadow, and I'm actually wondering if the grifter is just the shadow of the entrepreneur.

[02:04:12] Luke: Oh yeah. That's how I would see it. That's how I would see it. I've noticed in my own path as an entrepreneur and doing the work that I do here, there've been periods like when I moved to Texas and we bought this house, first house I ever bought. It was a financial burden. Set out to renovate it.

[02:04:27] I was under a lot of financial strain, and this is during the pandemic. Everything was very insecure. And I wasn't so aware at the time, but I ramped up the promotional side of what I do, more brand social media posts. And I'm like, damn, I need more money. And a couple of people called me out and like, you became super salesy.

[02:04:44] And I contemplated that. And I was like, you're absolutely right. I got to tone that shit down. I don't want to say I was grifting, but I was skewing the ratio of how much value I'm offering versus how much I'm asking for in return from the people that follow my work.

[02:05:05] And it got a little skewed where it felt, I don't want to say scummy, might be overhanded, but the fact that a few people noticed it, I was like, okay, I definitely have to take a look at this. And I did, I changed course and adjusted and realized I'm going to be fine. I don't need to get desperate and start over promoting stuff.

[02:05:22] I can promote it in a ratio that feels good, where people are still deriving more value from the work I do than what I'm asking them to contribute, which is always what feels best to me.

[02:05:32] Beth: It's so true. I operate that way as well. I'm like, I give, and I give, and I give, and I give, and I give, and then I'm going to create something, and I'm going to ask. But everybody sets their own pace with that too. I know entrepreneurs that they ask every single day, every single day. They're asking, asking, and they get to. So there's no rule around it, but how you feel inside with yourself, I think is the major thing. Right?

[02:06:03] Luke: I agree. Well, if I think about like this podcast, we do four promos per episode, which I try to keep them as short as I can, but I don't know, it's hard to really speak to something in under, I don't know, a minute and a half or something. If I do a three-hour interview, maybe I even do four ads that are two minutes, the ratio of value you're getting for how much you have to listen to me try to sell you a supplement or something, you're still making out pretty good.

[02:06:31] You're getting like a lot of free content, and you can just skip the goddamn ad if you don't want to hear it. But I think that's a good ratio. I'm able to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm building a new studio now that takes a lot of money. So I'm squirreling away some of the money I make from the podcast so that I can improve the production value for the guest, and the listener, and myself.

[02:06:50] And it's like, I'm reinvesting into that, but I couldn't do it for free, but also, I'm not going to run 10 ads just to get more money because that would suck for the listener. So it is an individual process, I guess, whatever feels good in your heart.

[02:07:08] Beth: It is your relationship to your people. That's the thing that I took away, because they see everybody do it differently. There's no law. There's no rule. There's no policy on how to be successful in that. And you can actually have a very bad relationship with your audience if you make no offers of any kind, because the moment you do, then they're like, you asked for money. Oh my goodness, like this.

[02:07:33] But if you're doing it all the time, they're like, yeah, that's what they do. I'm used to it. I'm part of it. And every so often, I'll maybe take them up on something or not. And this is not a mean way to say it, but you're training your audience, but you're building that relationship. How does that relationship go? And then you're polarizing.

[02:07:53] So people who don't like ads, they just won't watch Luke Storey. Or people who don't like that I periodically will offer a course of some kind and offer coaching and coaching training that's coming up in September. I wanted to make sure if it's okay to just let people know that if you want to become somebody who reads archetypes and helps people deprogram and transform much faster than they might be able to do on their own, then this is a really good time to look into that and to come and talk to me.

[02:08:21] It's not for everybody. I vet these people very carefully. I take a very limited number of students only once a year, although I'm training apprentices right now to be able to do their own trainings as well so it could be more available.

[02:08:32] Luke: That's beautiful. I highly encourage people to check it out. I know there are thousands of people listening to this that that are finding a higher purpose for their life and the work they do that are in a job that they know is soul sucking or not serving them or not paying them what they need to live a life they want to live.

[02:08:51] So yeah, when people have coaching programs and things like that, I love it because it takes away the excuse for someone like, well, I don't know how to do anything else, so I'm just working at my job that I hate. There's actually a lot of ways you can serve the world. You just have to invest some time and sometimes some money to get proper training to be able to have a skillset that has enough value where you can support yourself with it.

[02:09:15] Beth: Exactly. That's what I saw. Yeah, because when 2020 hit, I thought, okay, one alternative is I just lay on the floor and cry and I prep, and that's all. And then I'm like, hmm, rubbing my eyes going, oh, I never did lay down and die. Didn't matter how bad things got in my life. I didn't say uncle or whatever.

[02:09:35] And then I'm looking up. Okay, God. I always have said, God, what do you want from me? I don't know what the next step is. As an entrepreneur, you often don't know what your future is unless you're that long term king planner that you've got a five-year marketing plan or something.

[02:09:50] Luke: Those weirdos governing them.

[02:09:51] Beth: Those weirdos. Yeah, exactly. Not me either.

[02:09:54] Luke: I have a five-hour plan.

[02:09:56] Beth: There you go.

[02:09:57] Luke: What's today look like? Oh, I don't know if I can handle that.

[02:10:00] Beth: Right. That's more alchemist, by the way, the last archetype on the hero's journey. And I also have that.

[02:10:06] Luke: What's the shadow side of the alchemist? Because I look at it as it's really exciting and fun to live a very spontaneous unplanned life, but then a lot of things fall through the cracks. Especially if you're dealing with people who don't operate in the world like that, it can be very annoying to them.

[02:10:21] Beth: Right. Yeah. So the shadows of the alchemist can be grumpiness because they have more see through vision, and they see more of the wrong and more of the evil. And so instead of actually changing the world or transforming yourself, then they get stuck in that grumpy state.

[02:10:43] That's one of the shadows. Transformation is a huge gift, but transformation is a huge shadow. So they use transformation as a way to avoid digging in and committing to something and being part of something maybe for a long term so that it can give time to birth it, for example, my House of Free Will.

[02:11:03] It's still a baby. It's only since 2021 that I started it as a little seed, private domain association. We're 170 members, and it goes up a few and down a few and up a few and down a few. And it's not this huge accomplishment, but I know that anything that is of value, it takes about 25 years to grow it.

[02:11:26] So I'm just sticking with it and giving it time and attention like any new plant, new baby. It just requires so much, and I'm willing to put that in right now. And then the alchemist can take nothing and create something. That's the power. And they run rather on planning that would be more of a warrior thing where you've got goals and plans.

[02:11:51] They run on inspiration. Now, the difference is that if you don't have the goals in the long-term plan, you have to slave to that inspiration. When it comes, you answer it. I hired a coach one time saying like, I need to have a five-year marketing plan. I know you're going to tell me to do that.

[02:12:11] And she's like, nope, I'm not. I don't do that. I run on this principle. And there's many things. We are in a slave society. There's no question of that in my mind at all. And so I play with that. If I have to be a slave, I'm going to slave to inspiration, purpose, and freedom. And I'm going to do that somewhat religiously, although what does that word mean? I don't know.

[02:12:37] So if the inspiration comes at 4:00 AM, I'm not going to go, oh, be quiet. I need to sleep. I'm going to get up and at least take enough notes where I'll be able to come back to that inspiration and I'll remember it. And if it wakes me up in the middle of the night or it's in the middle, I'm trying to do something else, I have to give it the time and attention so I don't teach it that I'm not open to that.

[02:13:02] Sometimes I project on God that God will turn the tap off if I keep ignoring and hoping that comes back. So as long as I answer that, and it's a flow, it goes up and down. There's times where it seems like zero inspiration. You're never going to have it again. And then all of a sudden, it's the tidal wave of inspiration. And it's like, oh, it's all now, is it? Okay. And some late nights and all that kind of thing. One of those flows right now and mad scientists creating, creating, and creating.

[02:13:36] Luke: Beautiful.

[02:13:37] Beth: And that will quiet down as well. And it's been reliable. It's always worked for me. So yeah, the alchemist shadow. And then if people are stuck in a life that they don't like, it is up to you. Yes, it's a risk. Yes, it's huge responsibility. Yes, you don't know if it's going to work or not.

[02:13:57] When I put out the first training for the nurturer archetype, I'm like, okay, God kept telling me to do it, but there have been things I've been called to by God that didn't work. Maybe just to teach me that that wasn't the thing right now. But then when the wave happened and is so confirming, and then it gives me all that more inspiration to continue and stay in it for the long course, then it's really good.

[02:14:29] Especially if you're the helper, you already help. Maybe you help for free all day long, and you're the person everyone comes to for advice. And you haven't found a way to make good on that so that you're not leading a double life. You have to go to work all day and slave in a certain capacity. And then your friends ask you for help all night and all weekend.

[02:14:55] So if you're tired of that split life and you want to combine up, because that's what I had to do for myself after I survived cancer, I knew that my work and my life had to go from being two to one. And that was it. That's my contract. That's how I get to live.

[02:15:13] So if you know that about yourself, maybe it's not so dramatic as I just said it. Because this has given me freedom in a way I could have never planned, and the last four years have been proof of it, that I was basically free.

[02:15:29] If I stayed in my private world, nobody told me what to wear on my face, what injection to put in my body, what stairs to put my feet on, or how to live my life, or any policy that I needed to change, because I am a private entity. And I don't even mean legally. I'm just doing my thing and nobody seems to notice as long as I keep paying income tax and those kind of things.

[02:15:54] And so I have a certain level of power and sovereignty that I do pay for with responsibility, because there's stress, and there's wake up in the morning, and it's like, yeah, wow, it's me again. Responsibility. Me again. And not every coach necessarily who's come through my door-- some of them come to train as a coach so they can help more effectively and more quickly, and again, serve their nurturer.

[02:16:26] So they're not taking so much time and energy, and it's a big part of being a healthy nurturer, is to know who you help and why you help them and how you help them. So say somebody comes to me with a problem and they want my time and attention, I'm going to offer them some coaching. And if they turn me down for coaching, then I know it's not really in my wheelhouse.

[02:16:50] I don't say that very much, but if you don't want my secret weapon thing that works the very best and the fastest, then you don't really want help from me. You're just saying that, and maybe you're going to waste my time, actually.

[02:17:03] Luke: Sometimes people want attention more than they want to change.

[02:17:08] Beth: Yeah, they want a shared burden, which is a certain goodness. In your book about loneliness, being alone with a burden is the worst form of torture. And then we think, just for sharing the burden, we feel better. Why? Because you raised your frequency, but you haven't changed.

[02:17:28] Nothing has changed. Your frequency is going to drop again, like a yo yo, go up and down. But if you really want to get off the yo yo, off the map, off the pendulum swing, then these tools actually work.

[02:17:41] Luke: How do healthy boundaries play into the nurture archetype?

[02:17:58] Beth: The whole like side of that archetype is about boundaries. Boundaries are very badly misunderstood, and that's why I teach boundaries like a ninja. And that holds me accountable to my own boundaries too, which is a really huge gift that I've given myself, to walk my talk. If I'm teaching this stuff, I have to actually do and demonstrate.

[02:18:12] People are watching me. How do I handle different things? And so the baby form of a boundary is no. Just say no. Anybody asks you for anything, the answer is no, and then you're good, and you've got boundaries. Well, it's actually, like we talked about before, a very sad place for a nurturer, and not true, and not aligned by any stretch of the imagination.

[02:18:35] Because you have to decide all the time based on reality. And you have to go through the pain of feeling somebody's suffering, because that's what nurturers do. They have incredibly deep empathy. And then see with logic and lucidity and sobriety, is this where they could actually use that superpower of nurturance to affect some change.

[02:19:01] The difference between enabling and helping somebody is a world of difference. The number of times I've worked with somebody who found a whole bunch of different problems or came to me with a whole bunch of different problems, different areas, different relationships, and they discovered it was a shadow of one archetype, the nurturer, at play in every single arena, and then it greatly simplified their work.

[02:19:29] They're no longer struggling with their son and struggling with their husband and struggling with their business partner and all of those different-- their health and everything. Now they just work on the one shadow, and the true boundaries are in the organic living moment as they are that will teach you.

[02:19:49] I learned this the hard way. I was saying on the Alex podcast as well. When I first started traveling overseas, I made a policy that I was not going to give money to beggars. Because I know about that begging industry, that people end up on the street the wrong way, not just because they were downtrodden and then they need help.

[02:20:12] It's like prostitution. They've got a handler in the background, and there's some really awful things that you can be supporting by giving money to beggars. So I decided to myself, I'm here in service as a volunteer. I'm going to help build a new school. I'm going to be a teacher of English in another school, and I'm going to be helping families.

[02:20:33] So I'm not going to give money to beggars. Well, the first time I get approached in my first day in Kathmandu, I was cut up inside. It just was the biggest injury for me to see this man dragging himself on the street, barely able to move, and I'm refusing to help him. I could not live with myself.

[02:20:53] So that night, I made a new policy to have no policy, and that I would task myself with the very difficult work of deciding every single time and reading the situation, taking it on its own merit, and it became a very beautiful life in that respect after because I'll, like I said, read, and if I get the sign, sometimes the sign is not to give, and sometimes the sign is to give money.

[02:21:23] Sometimes the sign is to give a whole bunch of money, and sometimes the sign is to give food instead because money is not a healthy part of that relationship for one reason or another. They're, again, being handled. And that way, I've had enormous satisfaction in my giving nature without harming myself, but without also harming them, where I could have helped. The world needs a lot more nurturers. But the motive is everything. So one of the dynamics, right?

[02:22:00] Luke: Yeah.

[02:22:01] Beth: Why are you helping?

[02:22:02] Luke: You just reminded me of something so funny. I remember early in my journey, having been someone who was extremely selfish and self-centered for a long time out of my own just survival instincts, when I got back on my feet and started to get a decent job, make a little money, be able to go out to eat, I would give these exorbitant tips.

[02:22:20] And then I caught myself one day, which now I probably tip like that all the time, but at the time I was like, ooh, more than 20%, or at least 20 bucks when it could have been five or something like that. And I found myself waiting for the reaction of the server because I wanted to get the credit.

[02:22:46] I wanted them to be like, oh my God. Whoa, you're such a great person. Thankfully, I had enough self-awareness where I nipped it in the bud, but I was like, oh my God, that's so gross. It's not truly giving. It's like there's a hook in it and expectation that I want their approval. And I want them to go in the back and talk to the other waiters and be like, oh my God, that guy gave me a huge tip and have them look out.

[02:23:11] It's just ridiculous and embarrassing to even admit. But anyway, at least I had the wherewithal to become aware of that. And I was like, oh God, that's so gross. So then I started leaving those big tips just in bailing and just doing it more anonymously where I didn't even get the satisfaction of seeing them view me as such a giving person.

[02:23:30] Beth: Nice. That's a nice evolution.

[02:23:32] Luke: Yeah, it's fun. But I love that. Even if I get grossed out by discovering something like that about myself, I actually really enjoy it because it shows me that I'm making progress. Because there was a witness there who tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey, look what your persona is up to. This is immature and stupid. Maybe there's a different way to do it.

[02:23:53] Beth: That's brilliant.

[02:23:54] Luke: Better to know than not know. At least it hurts a little when you discover you're doing something really funny like that, but it also feels good to go, okay, noted. I'm not going to do that anymore. Or I'm going to do in a different way. I totally forgot about that.

[02:24:07] Beth: Yeah. Pain is power. And if you avoid it, then you avoid the power. So no, that's a brilliant evolution. That's fantastic.

[02:24:16] Luke: That's fun.

[02:24:17] Beth: Yeah. So many people are giving to get, and they pretend not to be. In their own conscious mind, they are not. They don't have an awareness of their motive. But say, especially in a time of uncertainty and when things are really-- like they're threatening the food supplies and blah, blah, blah.

[02:24:37] There's no shortage of ways that you think you might be pushed out of society or how we were persecuted like crazy in Canada. Unbelievable persecution for not complying with regulations. I know everybody felt it, but it was really bad in Canada.

[02:24:52] Luke: Oh, we know.

[02:24:53] Beth: You know.

[02:24:54] Luke: Yeah. Us Americans, at least me and my crew are looking at Canada going, man, coming to a country near you soon if somebody doesn't stop this. Stop it by just stop agreeing. You know what I'm saying? That's the funny thing about totalitarian power, is it's completely dependent on people submitting to it.

[02:25:17] It's like the minute a large number of people don't submit to it, it just evaporates. It's like a phantom. It's crazy. So yeah, we were watching, probably still we're watching. I see things about Canada even to this day, and I'm like, oh my God, that looks terrifying.

[02:25:34] Beth: Yeah, the latest, if I spread a little bit of doom porn, is that they're considering to have a 25,000-dollar charge to leave the country, and exponentially higher if you want to move.

[02:25:46] Luke: What?

[02:25:47] Beth: Yeah.

[02:25:49] Luke: Oh my God. Crazy. You know what's interesting about that too? And I don't know a lot about geopolitics, but growing up American, I think me and most of us have always viewed Canada as just very neutral and easygoing and certainly not authoritarian or dangerous in that way. Everyone seems to be polite and agreeable.

[02:26:13] It's just a very neutral country. So it's so interesting that it's been really, I guess probably even more so than Australia and New Zealand, but I would say Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, the Commonwealth countries seems to be the ones that really got hammered, but Canada seems to be the front runner of just tyranny. It's crazy.

[02:26:37] Beth: Yeah, we were sitting ducks, actually, because we've had it so easy our whole life, and there's never been any conflict or war there whatsoever. I used to always feel like I hit the jackpot being born in Canada. We have the best country ever. We have this persona, ego, around Canada being so fantastic.

[02:26:55] And yes, the land mass is, and people are super complacent. And they grow up with that idea that if I fall down, the government's going to pick me up. We have this social medicine and social system. In reality, it's like, wow, not there for you like you think it will be. But we are just a bunch of babies. We haven't had to face any conflict of any kind. We're a really infantile population. The fact that there are people that still support our prime minister, our crime minister--

[02:27:28] Luke: Are there really?

[02:27:29] Beth: Oh boy. Yeah.

[02:27:34] Luke: That's crazy.

[02:27:35] Beth: I know.

[02:27:36] Luke: Oh my God.

[02:27:37] Beth: Because they've hired all those people. This is a little bitterness, that huge spectrum between taking the risk of being the entrepreneur and then working for the government because, like my friend just said, oh yeah, I'm going to get a government job because you just sit there and you get a promotion. You burp, and you get a promotion. Whereas it's all merit based in your world, that you actually have to provide value.

[02:28:04] Luke: Well, that's the crazy thing about all governments, is they're paid for inefficiency and incompetency. It's like the worse any legislative body performs, the more they're funded. It's crazy.

[02:28:18] Beth: I know. What a--

[02:28:18] Luke: Clown world. It's clown world.

[02:28:22] Beth: Exactly. Yeah.

[02:28:23] Luke: Oh, I know. I did want to ask you one thing, and then I want to just touch on the law stuff because I'm so fascinated by this. What's your take on Jordan Peterson?

[02:28:34] Beth: Satan.

[02:28:35] Luke: Really?

[02:28:35] Beth: He's in my Satan category context.

[02:28:38] Luke: Really? You think he's a bad guy. I'm not like a fan boy or anything, but when you speak, as we've been having this conversation, I keep hearing his voice just because of the accent. And he's probably the most prominent Canadian person that I'm aware of that has a public platform and is producing content about psychology and whatever it is that he talks about.

[02:28:59] Beth: And this is good because it'll give me a chance to give the punchline that I realized on the whole study of the archetypes of controlled op. And so with me, I feel sick every time Jordan talks. I want to like him. He's so popular. Everybody sends me to his stuff. He does speak out to a certain degree, but at the end of the day, he is a shape shifter.

[02:29:22] And when he wanted to get on a plane and go somewhere, he's telling everybody, put on your masks. Go get a jab, like this. Because he had a need, and these, what did I call them? They're the elites. What did I call them? Oh, high-end hookers. That was my affectionate name.

[02:29:40] He's also in that category because they were so tied in with an economy of their work already that it was much bigger than they are. No one gets to that level of popularity without a whole lot of support plugged into them. And so they become beholden to that support. If you've got a sponsor or you've got somebody, they really do become a controller.

[02:30:06] They're like, oh, Jordan, you're talking anti this? I think you need to tone that down because that's not going to work for us, and our relationship might not go that well. There's Elon who's, oh yeah, the big fuck you campaign that they sponsored.

[02:30:21] Luke: Oh my God.

[02:30:22] Beth: What a show.

[02:30:24] Luke: Oh my God, dude. I can't believe people are on that guy's nuts. I go on that app, which I probably shouldn't even go on, but yeah, I go on there and it's like people see him as some savior of--

[02:30:38] Beth: Free speech.

[02:30:39] Luke: Yeah, free speech. I'm like, dude, this guy has a fake space company. He's lying about the most meaningful thing in our reality every day. It's like, I don't care what one does for an app or supposedly for free speech, if they're so phony. I can't fathom how people are that gullible, honestly.

[02:31:03] Beth: Yeah.

[02:31:04] Luke: But that's how desperate we are for a voice. And so somebody creates a platform that claims free speech, which, by the way, doesn't at all. It's wildly censored just in a little more sneaky manner with shadow banning and all that stuff. But I'm like, wow, we're so desperate that that's the person we're putting up as our champion? It's crazy. It's very sad actually.

[02:31:30] Beth: Right.

[02:31:31] Luke: It's depressing.

[02:31:32] Beth: That's the hangover from the guru culture where we're always looking for the person to lead us out of Egypt, and we're in an age now where we are tasked with that job to lead ourselves and go.

[02:31:45] Luke: Well, that's, like you were saying earlier around the victimhood being born out of avoiding responsibility. That gives us that savior complex because we don't feel empowered to just have the autonomy to save ourselves and those about us. So it's like we're looking to-- I saw this a lot in the heyday of the Donald Trump fiasco, and there's still just vast numbers of people that still think that that guy is coming to save them. It's just bizarre.

[02:32:19] Beth: Mm-hmm.

[02:32:21] Luke: He was the person at the helm of the biggest genocide in world history. I'm not blaming the whole thing on him, but it's like the dude signed off on it and is still bragging about it. And yet people think he's the guy. I don't know. It's crazy. Sometimes I think I'm the crazy one because I'm like, how could so many people have it wrong? Maybe I have it wrong. I don't know. Maybe there is some QAnon master plan where he's the white hat.

[02:32:53] Beth: I don't think so

[02:32:54] Luke: I have a hard time seeing it, to be honest, which is a perfect segue into law. And it's funny. When we sat down, I looked at my notes. I was like, yeah, probably 90 minutes or so. I never get it right, especially when it's someone as engaging as you are. But I would be remiss if I didn't cover this because I know this is a lot of the work you do, or at least part of you do, teaching people about operating their life in the private versus in the public, in the world of commerce.

[02:33:22] And the whole topic of common law has been something I've been interested in for a very long time, and it a bit too nebulous, and the people out there teaching it were older and had crappy websites, and you had to read everything. Very few people were producing video or audio content, which is how I best learn, especially audio.

[02:33:45] And so I'd read a book about it, or I'd watch a little Jordan Maxwell speech about maritime law and your birth, and you're a ship, and all this stuff. And I'm like, ah, there's something to this. I really want to learn this, but I don't know. I couldn't find the right sources of information.

[02:34:02] And now there are some younger people that have an understanding of media and are producing long-form content and educating people. And so there's this huge movement now toward people exercising their fundamental rights. And so I've done two podcasts, one just came out this week, that have been very well received.

[02:34:23] And one of them was Brother Truth, and he's a great guy. Lives here in Texas. And another one was Brandon Joe Williams. I think they're interesting people doing interesting things, so I have them on. I want to learn. I want to educate the audience. And I think that it's a really important topic of study because we're all seeing the fallacy of these institutions that are controlling our lives.

[02:34:51] And I think most of us, at least people listening to a podcast like this are like, okay, I'm in a matrix. I'm having all of my energy, or at least a good portion of my energy siphoned off by a parasitic system. I want out, or I want to tear down the system. I don't think tearing it down is going to work.

[02:35:08] Meanwhile, it seems to me there's a pre existing system or a multitude of systems of law going back maybe to just God's law, biblical law, to law of the land, common law. And then there's these superimposed sort of layers of law, codes, statutes in the commercial realm that we all think are the only laws.

[02:35:29] And so we're all following them like dumbasses. And so there's different processes of status correction and dealing with your citizenship and your relationship to the IRS and all of this stuff. It's still quite overwhelming to me because it's just so huge and it seems like you could spend lifetimes learning it all.

[02:35:48] But it is exciting to me. And I think it's a relevant conversation because I think somewhere in there is a key to freedom of just going back to the original set of laws that seem to work for everyone. The Ten Commandments is how I look at it or the golden rule. I'm down with all of that.

[02:36:08] The rest of it doesn't make any sense to me, but I guess my question is in this. Because there's this emerging subculture of people, there are some clear grifters also coming in, charging all this money for their training programs, or they're going to correct your status, all this stuff. There's a lot of misinformation and maybe even disinformation out there too.

[02:36:32] So it's like this sea of really high value, life changing information, but there's a lot of sharks in the water. So I'm wondering where you learned about some of the concepts of common law, operating in the private. What has been your evolution through understanding and applying any of it to your own life?

[02:36:53] Beth: Yeah. In short, it's almost 100% disillusionment.

[02:36:58] Luke: Really?

[02:36:59] Beth: Yeah. And like I said, I knew there had to be remedy. I knew it. There was something in me that said, this is wrong. What's happening here and law will hold some keys for us. So we had a little team and started to basically connect with every grifter in Canada that you can imagine, also many American ones.

[02:37:25] I say it with a lot of certainty, and I want to follow that up for sure. Either now or send people to a workshop that I gave at Anarchapulco so that they can get the full thing on it if we don't have time for right now. Again, don't know people's motives, why they would invent a solution.

[02:37:44] Is it out of a pure heart that they want people to have a better outcome than we have right now and then they're trying to crack a code? Inventors in law, I think is a big mistake because when it boils down, if I give the shortest answer that I could--

[02:38:02] Luke: It doesn't have to be short, by the way. My question was long.

[02:38:05] Beth: Okay. Yeah.

[02:38:06] Luke: There's a lot to unpack. This is like the foundation of our society. So it requires some depth, I think, to tease it out.

[02:38:15] Beth: Oh, perfect. For sure, it does. I'll go to the end first and we can work our way back, but I discovered there's only really two things that are bonafide in that arena, and it's public law. It's called court procedure, understanding in your jurisdiction based on your matter, what court you are actually in that you know the law and you know the procedure, not just the law.

[02:38:46] Because you can be super right about your position. You can be totally a victim, and you are going to pay because you don't know court procedure. That's how that world works. The other real thing that I found is the private domain, and it is a definition that's thrown out around a lot.

[02:39:07] There have been a great deal of grifters in the private domain selling their papers. That's ultimately what it comes down to, that they invented some magic papers and they wrote them, and then you have to pay $1,000, or $5,000, or $10,000 for these papers that magically make you private rather than public.

[02:39:28] Now, we know that distinction between the public and the private is real because you have institutions that are governed by public law, and there's no real way around it. Again, things that might work sometimes, but never consistently. As soon as you think that there's a secret hidden thing going on behind public law, for the most part, I would say that is not real.

[02:39:54] That's an invention that gets our minds into that where we are rejecting the public. Well, guess what? That the public was created to protect the private. That's its exact reason to be. So by rejecting the public, you are, in fact, rejecting your own resource. So how many people got tricked into renouncing the birth certificate and they make sure that they're not licensed to drive or anything? And they have no social insurance numbers, what is called in Canada. I don't know what--

[02:40:30] Luke: Social Security numbers

[02:40:31] Beth: Social Security in the US. They divest themselves of all of these public entities, and they think they're free. Well, they're not free at all. They cannot navigate in society. I know somebody in particular, and it was very lucky that a friend of mine hired him. Because he was not able to work, period.

[02:40:48] Nobody would touch him with a 10-foot pole. That's in Canada. There might be different places. Entrepreneurialism, again, is a subject, because if he could have invented his own way, that doesn't depend on the social insurance. But you are decapitating yourself. You are debilitating yourself by divesting of the public.

[02:41:10] How convenient that they want us to hate the public so that we injure ourselves, instead of becoming a skillful in the public, of becoming aware of how to use the public in a way that doesn't compromise you. So that's, to me, a huge psyop, where they get us to hate the public and love the private.

[02:41:34] And if you break it down into archetypes, this is one of the big discoveries of the last four years. A friend of mine and I were working on this a lot to see what's going on here. It is two archetypes, the public and the private. And what is it identical to? The masculine and the feminine, identical to the left brain and the right brain.

[02:41:59] And so by trying to cut one, it's also identical to the predator and the prey found in nature. You can't break that relationship in nature. If you try to take the predator out of a natural environment, the prey become the predator on the land. It is a natural, inherent order to our reality. And so this war between public and private, to me, is totally false.

[02:42:29] Now, it's still very true that we need to live in the private. And the private is something that people don't understand. We have legal and financial definitions for that, although a lot of wrong ones as well. But we know our elites operate in the private quite a lot. So political parties are private associations, and the bar association is a private association.

[02:42:56] Luke: And operating through trust. You see the generational wealth of these-- this is why you see someone like a Donald Trump get sued, and it means nothing, because it's like they don't own anything as a person. Everything is owned by trust and so on.

[02:43:12] Beth: Right. They have created charging order protection. And that's what, as individuals, we do not have. As a sole proprietor, then if anything wrong happens, it comes down on me. I can be sued. It's all about liability. That's from their perspective. So that's why, at the end of the day, I decided that I was not going to go the distance and create those levels of charging order protection, because I don't have a lot of liability in my work.

[02:43:44] It's all online. No one's going to fall down my stairs, all of this kind of thing. So I've always self-insured. That's something that I took from my dad, where wherever he could self-insure, he would do that. And it's about taking responsibility, living in the private.

[02:43:02] With my tiny home, I was looking at all the options to insure it. At the end of the day, I had to give the government $6,000 in order to qualify for insuring and then I pay. and I'm like, I don't think so. I don't feel like doing that.

[02:44:20] I'm going to take responsibility myself and let the chips fall. If a hurricane came along, which we don't have in the prairies, but something took it out and it's done, then I'm willing to live with that. But in the meantime, with the exception of the podcast, the government doesn't know I have a tiny home.

[02:44:37] And so then by operating in the private, you do gain a great deal of power. And the private, I always use the metaphor of a fish desperately looking for water. Where's the water? Where's the water? Well, you're in that element. You're always in that element, and you just don't exercise it.

[02:45:00] And the public has been systematically, like a predator that has no check and balance whatsoever, become like the bloodthirsty, murderous-- they eat everything that they can. And the image that comes to mind is where there was a story I was reading about a woman who had sheep on her land, and I believe it was a bear that would come or something like that and go on a feeding frenzy on her sheep.

[02:45:34] But the bear did not eat one sheep. I might be getting the animals wrong. I know they are predator and prey. He would kill everything. It turned into a bloodlust, literally, a psychotic episode on the animal's part. It'd be different if they eat and then you see, oh, this is natural.

[02:45:50] Luke: Yeah. I think wolves do that.

[02:45:51] Beth: Maybe it was wolves.

[02:45:52] Luke: Yeah, I don't know that bears don't, but I've heard that about wolves. Well, they'll come upon a chicken coop or your herd of sheep and just kill them all and not eat any of them.

[02:46:01] Beth: And not eat.

[02:46:01] Luke: They're just doing it for fun.

[02:46:03] Beth: Because there's nobody keeping an eye on them. There's no check and balance for them. So yeah, that's what we're dealing with right now. And I remember the time that I was coming back from the border. Early on in the pandemic, I got invited to New York to go and be part of a truther event with Andrew Kaufman, I'm sure you're aware of, and a bunch of others.

[02:46:25] And I'm like, oh, I'm just like a little bunny going, I want to go, and I can't leave the country because of what's going on. And I thought, I'm going to do this. I'm just going to try and see what happens.

[02:46:35] And I get to the border, and I'm the only one at the border, except for about five-kilometer lineup of semi trucks that they were dripping through the border, and the guy says to me, where are you going? It's a pandemic. And I'm like, I'm going to see a doctor. He's like, you can't leave the country. And I'm like, oh, but I have a doctor's note. And he's like, oh, okay. Closes the door for 10 minutes.

[02:46:58] Anyway, I blow the border, and I'm in the country. And so my awareness of this element of the predator class, and forgive me, I'll have to see if I that point comes all the way around why I need to tell you about the-- I'll make it meaningful this way, that it actually demonstrates that I have more predator than prey.

[02:47:26] That's why I'm speaking out. That's why I'm not just sitting back and taking it and quietly accepting my punishment, or my reward, or whatever that is. And I pay the price for that as well. But that's the balances between us, our masculine and our feminine, and it explains a lot about the people that operate in law.

[02:47:51] So those, I've supported a lot, but I will for myself not do this. I will not go into the public law arena. I will avoid that like the plague because I know too much about it now, and a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. You know less, and you're going to get burned. And so by going into the private and living your life and making your own arrangements, your own policies, your own agreements and having relationships.

[02:48:25] So the private domain is 100% hinged on relationships. If you don't have relationships, you don't have any power in the private. Period. So that was a very big awakening to see that the relationships are the most important thing when it comes to survival. And then knowing that if I participate in the public in a mindful way, knowing what am I contracting with, and how is that going to be an implication?

[02:48:55] If I could have avoided birth certificating my son, I would have. There is a certain amount of this much truth in that, not a whole lot. There's a huge amount of mythology built around that, but the fact that we have that birth certificate makes us indentured slaves, and there's no changing of the status.

[02:49:18] It doesn't work like that. That's the dream and the hope, and again, the grifters that want us to believe that there's some way to change that. There's no way to change that. You don't change what you haven't created. You don't control what you haven't created.

[02:49:36] But what you can do is be a creator, and that's what you do in the private. So if you create entities that remove you from liability and disappear you, so that if they want to come after you and the predators want to take you out, they're just not going to find you, or they can't get to you.

[02:49:57] Luke: Well, then also you don't have the need for contracting into liability protection. So if I have an LLC, then I've contracted with the government, and so now we're in a relationship because I need that limited liability protection. But if I took it upon myself to insure myself or create private contracts with anyone that I do business with, then I wouldn't need that liability protection. Or take property taxes, which I was hoping leaving California would be less, but they're really high in Texas.

[02:50:33] There's no state tax, but they get you on the property taxes. And the way I understand it at this point is basically, I'm in Travis County, I essentially have a subscription service that I'm signed up for. I didn't know that. I just bought the house, and it's attached to it. There is a choice. You can get out of it, it turns out, but it's a bit of work.

[02:50:53] So I have a contract with them so that if we call 911, the police show up. If our house catches on fire, the fire department shows up, our mail is delivered. So in exchange, they'll do me the service of providing building permits for me, which is really funny.

[02:51:11] I wouldn't want them that impedance placed upon me. I think of it as my property. I'm paying for it. I want to build what I want. Well, it doesn't work that way because I've signed a contract with them unknowingly for their subscription service. Now, I can go through a process of paperwork and let them know, hey, you guys, thank you very much for your services.

[02:51:30] I'm opting out of this subscription. Therefore, I won't be paying you this monthly fee. But if I were to do that, then if I call the police, call 911, my house is literally invisible on their system. They would put in my address, and it just doesn't appear. It says, we don't go there. They don't want our services.

[02:51:50] So then to your point of having relationships, I would have to go down to the local fire department, develop a relationship with them, sign some service contract saying, hey, I promise to pay. If we need you, please come. I'd have to go to the sheriff's department to do the same thing.

[02:52:05] So then I could do that, but that means I have to do the footwork of providing myself with the services and contracts that I'm getting automatically in a bundled service from the county by paying my property taxes. The way my archetype operates, I haven't done that yet, but I would still rather not be forced into keeping that subscription with the county and having to pay way too much money for it because I might never need their services.

[02:52:35] If I had the wherewithal and the time and energy and understanding to do it, I probably would cancel that contract and go have independent arrangements with the service providers that I may or may not need someday. You see what I'm saying? But that's different than just going, property taxes are wrong. I'm not paying anymore, and just tearing the bills up. That is not going to go well.

[02:52:55] And I think like in the sovereign citizen, freedom, patriot movement, whatever you want to call it, people start to learn some of the jargon from Black's Law and think that they can just mouth off to a police officer, stop paying their taxes or whatever it is, and nothing's going to happen to them because, my rights, and it just doesn't work like that.

[02:53:14] If you're in these contracts, they have to be broken, but if you're getting liability protection from those contracts, then you have to come up with some other way to protect yourself in the private realm. Does that kind of make sense to you?

[02:53:26] Beth: For sure. Exactly. But there's no need to divest yourself of important services like police and fire and those things that are our normal part of society. That doesn't make them in control of you. But nonetheless, they can use those things to leverage control over you. I know that in Canada, for example, they provide a child tax benefit.

[02:53:49] And so for the first couple of years of the pandemic, I'm like, I'm never paying tax again. It's immoral. I'm not going to support this government. And I looked into that really deep, and it was like, yeah, I am going to pay income tax again. It turns out that I don't want to die on that hill.

[02:54:07] Not to say it's impossible, and I know there are people selling solutions on that and they say they're simple and everything, but I want to watch those people who employed those solutions for seven years because that's how long it takes the government to catch up on anything. I want to dispel the myth that if they don't respond to you, they're agreeing with you. Absolutely wrong. Absolutely wrong.

[02:54:29] It works the other way around. So don't think, oh, I sent all the paperwork and they didn't argue with me. It's like, no, no, there's some dweeb in the mail room going, this doesn't fit any category. It's going in the garbage, and then we'll just go after them.

[02:54:46] So I don't file for a couple of years on my income taxes, and then they send me a letter saying, oh, you want your child tax, therefore this is what you're going to do. And it's like, you don't get it. I don't want your child tax anymore. I don't want that benefit.

[02:55:03] So this is more to what you're saying. I don't want that benefit so that you can't control me. And that's not your leverage anymore because I'm telling you, I don't want that. Give it to somebody else. The more independent that you can be, the more personal power you're going to feel.

[02:55:22] And then if the chips really fall down or the tyranny comes 100% and it's outright communism for us, then you're not so tied in. You can't be flexible and pivot and then have those relationships to turn to for food, for example. That's a big one where they're trying to eat the whole entire food system alive. So they're in complete control, and they've got every grain of rice bar coded.

[02:55:52] And so it's like, like little bunnies, oh, we'll make our own gardens, and we'll come up with a food system and all of those kinds of things. So to me, the best strategy that I've found for myself, is to just continuously create in the private. And what that does is it makes the public less and less relevant.

[02:56:14] I don't think about the public. I don't interact with the public nearly to the degree and extent. And then they don't have control over my life to that degree and that extent. I take responsibility for my own health. I do not use health services.

[02:56:28] I pay for health services, but I do not use them because I know it's more harm than good. But if I break my leg or I end up with a 10-inch laceration of some kind, guess where I'm going. To a professional. I'm not going to be looking for-- unless Andy Kaufman is right there.

[02:56:46] Luke: Yeah.

[02:56:47] Beth: Shout out to him. I know they're trying to teach some emergency medicine and stuff like that, and I do have a friend now that can remove bullets and do minor surgeries that I never thought was--

[02:56:57] Luke: I often give that example, though. Yeah. If I fall off the roof and break my leg, don't give me ashwagandha. Get me to the damn hospital. It has its place, just like the state has their place. Although I think they overstep, to say the least.

[02:57:12] Beth: Yeah. If there's a place for balance, it's grossly out of balance.

[02:57:16] Luke: Yeah. But I enjoy your perspective. I think my rebel archetype is still pretty strong in this way. I'm like, I just want out of the whole thing. You know what it is for me, I look at animals in nature, wild animals, and I have a really hard time reconciling the difference between me and a deer and our right to exist on the planet.

[02:57:40] And why do I have to pay to breathe? Where did that come from? Who's doing it? And how do I stop that? I want to be like the deer, or the rabbit, or the crow. I'm a living, breathing man. I'm not a corporate fiction piece of paper. You know what I mean?

[02:58:01] Beth: For sure.

[02:58:01] Luke: And so it's like I'm very identified with my real natural self, but I also realized that I was born into a system that created a duality, a false self that is engaged in that contractual relationship. And it's done so without my parents’ knowledge, to the point of the birth certificate.

[02:58:20] I could have lived my whole life and never even known that I thought I was that person on that piece of paper in the all-caps name. So I get a bill. Even if it's a totally fallacious bill, it has that all caps name. And I think they're coming at me for money. No, they're going after the sub corporation that's the fictitious me.

[02:58:39] So it's like, well, if that's not me, then who am I? Well, I know who I am. Who's that on the piece of paper, is what I want to know. And rather than trying to destroy it, as you said, which it's there. It was created by the system. It's like a giant corporation and a bunch of sub corporations created that micro corporation on my birth certificate.

[02:58:59] And that's what's been interfacing with the public my whole life. You can't get rid of it, but I would like to have agency over it so I'm the one that is deciding when it interfaces with the public and when it doesn't, and I'm over here living my own private life, like the deer down the road.

[02:59:18] Now, that might be a very idealistic and unrealistic way to dream, but it seems like there's a way to find a balance in the world in the way with which you operate. To me, it's very daunting because I don't have a brain that figures that kind of data out easily. I'm big picture, creative person.

[02:59:39] And when you get into the nuances of reading these documents and studying law, it's just like, oh my God, my brain melts. But I conceptually get it, I think, or I'm beginning to get it. And there's something about the conceptual understanding I have that is difficult for me to forget about and just go back to sleep and pretend like I don't know that there's two worlds here.

[03:00:01] You have like two countries in the case of America, and every person is two person, unless they were born to some earth mama and free birth and didn't get a birth certificate or Social Security card. We're all two people living in two countries, but none of us know it.

[03:00:17] And we just go through our lives having our energy extracted by this parasitic system that's just fighting for its own survival because it seems to lack creativity. So us creative people are siphoned off by the parasitic system, and everything we create gets partially stolen from us with our consent.

[03:00:37] Beth: With our consent. And that's the part, to just wake up to your choices and your decisions and be aware and do the diligence where it's necessary. I also don't want to look at any of that. I remember reading those agreements that we always click on and you don't read them and you say you read them, but you didn't. It was the voice to text on a Mac.

[03:01:00] Because I use voice to text quite a lot on my phone, I thought, oh, this would be handy. So I read the whole agreement out of diligence. I didn't accept the agreement after. I couldn't because I saw what was involved, and it didn't work for me. I'm not bragging because that's, I think, the only time I really did that.

[03:01:17] And it's like, where do you want to walk? I've got a lot of people in my life that are just full on their learning court procedure. They are coming head-to-head with prosecutors, and it's not all one way in the world. It's not all evil. You can't blanket paint that situation.

[03:01:38] It's like the controlled op. It's highly nuanced, like every thing. And there are champions within that world. Cal Washington talks about that. There's judges that actually know, and you know, but he talks a lot about this. I love Cal. I love him, like anything, but he talks a lot about the secrets behind the thing.

[03:01:55] And then there's other people going like, absolute BS and calling that. What they do is take advantage of the fact that we don't know anything. If we don't know court procedure, they don't have to follow it because they're lazy. A lawyer doesn't really want to work for you because that will take thought and make them actually have to respond to something rather than just fill out wrote forms and know that at the end of the day, you're going to pay your bill and they're good.

[03:02:28] So it's, how do you want to navigate? Are you that kind of fighter that's going to be willing to go to bat like that? Or are you going to put your time and energy more into the private? And to me, it became this ratio of learning that I will put 10% of my attention max in the public, learning public law.

[03:02:48] And then I spend 90 percent of my time creating in the private because being a creator, being generative, there's nothing like it. I forget that I'm a slave. I forget to comply with anything. I'm answering to God, and it's between me and God what I create. And I can create value, and I can create transformation, and I can help those who want to become more awake and independent and self-sufficient.

[03:03:19] I can help them with that. And I can help people heal and really make a change in their life, go have a new day, not just a new state of mind. So that's where I put all of my focus, and my time, and my energy. And I have a lot of faith in that. I don't know where it's headed. We still might end up in complete tyranny. We do want to move to Texas, I'll let you know.

[03:03:43] Luke: Yeah?

[03:03:44] Beth: Oh yeah.

[03:03:45] Luke: Yeah. You'd be right at home here.

[03:03:46] Beth: Next year. Exactly. Yeah. We were fish out of water over there.

[03:03:52] Luke: I can only imagine. Yeah. So many people I know have moved here solely for really many of us, myself and my wife included to some degree, just community, just being able to have conversations like this with almost everyone you run into to some degree.

[03:04:10] There's a lot of diversity of thought and culture and all of that, of course, but when it comes to just fundamental worldview, there are many people here that think like us, how we've been speaking today.

[03:04:24] Beth: Right on.

[03:04:24] Luke: It's a lot of people, especially in Austin. I haven't spent much time in any other places in Texas, but yeah, Austin seems to be-- there's good and bad that comes with any kind of energy center, but there is definitely an attractor field of a certain frequency of person that is drawn here. I never thought in a million years I would move to Texas. Are you kidding me?

[03:04:47] Beth: Me neither.

[03:04:49] Luke: Dude, Alyson and I, we still do this. We've been here, I don't know, three or four years or something. We drive around, and every once in a while, one of us will look in, and we're just looking at the car and just seeing whatever we're seeing, and we go, did we move to Texas?

[03:04:58] Yeah, we totally moved to Texas. It's funny. Just growing up in California, you think of Texas as like, I don't know, just a bunch of rednecks or something. It's just like, no way am I ever going to culturally fit there. And lo and behold, I seem to fit here better than I do anywhere else.

[03:05:19] It's funny. But I will warn you, July and August, absolute living hell here. So if you're going to move here, be prepared to build a life where you can leave for the summer, which is what natives and people with the means do. Because, man, it is no joke. First couple of years, we're like, ah, we can deal with this this summer. I don't care what I do or where we go. We're not going to be here. It's intense. Unless you really love being indoors 24/7.

[03:05:46] Beth: Right.

[03:05:46] Luke: Last summer, I looked it up because I was like, am I imagining how bad this sucked? So I looked it up. It was over 100 degrees for over 90 days straight. That's at night too. I mean 24/7. It didn't go under a hundred for three freaking months, and I was like, yeah, no, I'm out.

[03:06:09] Beth: I hear you.

[03:06:10] Luke: But that said, I hope you move here. You'd be a great addition to the community here.

[03:06:15] Beth: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I often ask the question of God, like, were we intended to live any one place all year round? Because it seems like every environment has its downtime or downside.

[03:06:26] Luke: For sure. To be honest, I'm not a fan of the winter here either. It doesn't get that cold, but it gets very ugly. It's like everything turns brown. Everything dies. It gets cloudy. I get very depressed here. January, February, it might dip down in the teens for a few days, and you got to cover your plants.

[03:06:44] I'm just like, what? This sucks. So I don't know. I feel like we might have to build a life where we're only here in the spring and the fall, which are amazing, and then find a way to escape in the cold couple of months and the hot couple of months, and I feel like I'd be living the dream.

[03:06:58] Beth: Nice.

[03:06:59] Luke: So that's the plan. Well, goddamn, thank you for joining me. We're going to put everything we talked about, including your book, your online course that comes out tomorrow after this is released at lukestorey.com/beth. Anything else we missed that you want to share with us?

[03:07:13] Beth: Just an invitation to anyone who would like to join the House of Free Will and be part of my--

[03:07:17] Luke: Tell us a little bit more. I know we alluded to that and maybe we talked about the private and public a bit, but what is that? Give us a little more detail.

[03:07:24] Beth: So it's a haven for people to develop stronger relationships, knowing that the relationship in the private is the most important thing. And I don't teach people how to go in the private because I heard you say that earlier. I'm not that person. I do have some really good contacts now that I can direct people towards.

[03:07:44] And so for the most part, it's an education platform where I'm hosting regular workshops from experts that I see have solutions. So it's a little bit of a contrast in the truth world where it's 100% solution-oriented, but you're not going to run into anybody who drank the Kool Aid.

[03:08:07] So I vet people. It's by application only. I want to make sure that you're really the right kind of person, that we already have a certain family feel between us so that you're not coming in and bumping up against the people that you think are wrong. We're not doing that here. And so there's workshops in health, in law.

[03:08:32] There's a huge library of workshops already from a number of different people that we would be familiar with and in the truth community. And every time I see someone with a skill that I think is valuable, I want to create that as part of this library so that we can help each other educate. We can get positively motivated and drawn by the things that we want rather than what we don't want. I hold regular--

[03:09:02] Luke: Big distinction. I'm working on that myself.

[03:09:04] Beth: And so I hold regular fellowship every single week. I open a Zoom room so people can come in and just get to know each other. I do a weekly snippet that is private only people seeing that. It's never going to go into the public, although it might turn into a book because I'm amassing these weekly snippets on subjects that I feel passionate talking about.

[03:09:26] I take inspiration from all kinds of areas that can be fairly random or actually very focused with regard to the archetypes, for example. I did one on sleep because people had a lot of sleep issues. So yeah, the House of Free Will, it's been fun. Shout out to the members who are watching this. Thank you for your ongoing support that are out there. And I love you guys. And yeah, I'm willing to be in it for the long haul.

[03:09:53] We'll see what this can grow and how we will evolve as the needs change, where we need to be more related to each other, and then maybe we have a foundation for that. Because the biggest Achilles heel-- I'm actually going to be speaking at the next nonconformist series put on by Anarchapulco people, and it's all about separate societies, parallel societies, and that kind of thing.

[03:10:17] And to me, the big focus has to be in our ability to get along, which sounds so trite, but we've seen it, multiple levels of division in the truth community, and we fall for it, and we turn into enemies. I've been X'd by so many people that were my friends. And it's just like, really?

[03:10:40] Luke: This really concerns me about the idea of intentional communities. There's been percolating ideas. I think there's a couple in the works, but when we moved here, it was still plandemic time, and so there are a few people in the community buying huge properties, and we're going to sell off lots or do some, I don't know, intentional community for lack of a better term, where you have a bunch of like-minded people growing food.

[03:11:04] You have a security force. You create your own little ecosystem. And I thought, man, that sounds really cool. But then you live around a large group of maybe a couple hundred people for a few years as we have and you see like, ooh, shit, thank God we didn't move in next to that person, because things come out or you learn things about people, and you're like, wow, I wouldn't want them next to my kids. Crazy shit.

[03:11:25] So that is one thing that I think is challenging around getting people that are generally like minded and have shared values that want to live with a sense of autonomy and freedom and do their own thing. It's like, how do you get all of those nuts to get along?

[03:11:43] And if anyone's weird and is inappropriate in any way, who holds them accountable? If you don't have a governing authority, then is it turned into a majority rule thing where they get kicked out of the community because they're being a dick or they leave too much junk on their lawn? You know what I mean?

[03:11:59] It's an interesting concept to me. And I like the idea of it. I could pick 20 families right now off the top of my head that I would love to go get some land with and build a little town, but there's probably another 20 that I've learned, like, hey, maybe we wouldn't have been a match, but I thought so the first day I met them kind of thing.

[03:12:18] Because people's true colors come out, I think, when you live with them, just like when you travel with someone, it's a great way to really figure out if you're compatible. So yeah, I like the idea of you nurturing this community at its inception and being very mindful and discerning about how it's being built so that the possibilities for what it can become actually have some legs. It's a great way to do it. Instead of buying a piece of land and trying to figure it out then.

[03:12:46] Beth: Well, yeah, that's the thing. One of the first things that happened when I realized that the food security was an issue is I'm praying to God, okay, where am I going to start being mindful? I knew the writing was on the wall. And if it is or not, I'm not totally concluded. So I'm praying and then two things happen in one day.

[03:13:08] Luke: In terms of a widespread Mao starvation kind of situation?

[03:13:10] Beth: Exactly. Can happen, has happened. It's not outside the realm of possibility, but I refuse to spend my days preparing for doom. There's too many psyops. My whole lifetime, they've tried to convince us of one thing. Every two and a half years, there's some new major threat to humanity, and it just never happens. The economic collapse, I think that's a psyop, by the way. Believe it or not.

[03:13:36] Luke: I hope so.

[03:13:37] Beth: Yeah. Yeah.

[03:13:38] Luke: If there's any psyop that gets close to me, I'm like, I don't know. Looking at the price of gold going up. There's signs. But I don't know. The people were saying that 10 years ago, and here we are. The dollars still plugging along feebly, albeit, but it's still there.

[03:13:54] Beth: Yeah. Even the currency dying. So I just made efforts and did start building relationships, and they start one conversation at a time. But over time now, it's been four years of working with certain people. We're not enough to survive, but we have walked our talk. And those relationships are going to come to some kind of conflict.

[03:14:18] There's going to be things that you're going to have to negotiate and work through and work around. But what I've noticed is that a great need can breed great humility. And so when they took me in, when my family rejected me, but they took me in and opened their life and trusted me-- that's a whole big story on that one.

[03:14:40] Maybe another conversation we would have, but I'm so grateful. I'll work my butt off on their land. And I take very little because I'm just one or two people depending on where my son is at the time. So it's not really a match up, but I'll pour my heart and soul and I'll leave there, and my knees will be shaking.

[03:15:01] I've put so much of my effort into it. And it's just so worth it and so satisfying. They're hugely humbled because there's us who are coming there to work for nothing. And then they're trying to send us with like, are you sure you don't want another squash? All this kind of thing.

[03:15:20] And they're, thank you, thank you. And everybody's so on good behavior because we're mutually humbled by the situation. And it's building a beautiful, solid relationship over time, but it takes time.

[03:15:34] Luke: Epic. Last question. Who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life that you'd like to share with us?

[03:15:40] Beth: Oh, I knew you were going to ask this question.

[03:15:42] Luke: I do it almost every time. Every once in a while, I forget. On a good day, I remember.

[03:15:47] Beth: Right. So the book Sacred Contracts by Caroline Myss came out the year that I was told I wouldn't survive my second diagnosis of cancer. And I'm going like, what? I'm doing everything right. I have employed every possible strategy that I can know to employ.

[03:16:10] I don't know why I'm still a dying person. I'm doing everything I could do. So she published that year. I read that book. I'd already tuned in with a fair amount of her work, and it brought my attention back to archetypes, which I started looking at in my anthropology days, but never to work on myself, just as a cultural artifact, more like cross cultural studies.

[03:16:30] And so that book was the impetus for me to go in and see exactly where I was stuck. It was the beginning of my precise self-diagnosis that I knew exactly where I was stuck, and I was able to turn the corner. I'll say, arrogantly, I took the work much further than she did, and I followed her the tiniest little bit post plandemic and either totally not awake or totally controlled. Could be a combination of both. But nonetheless, that book was absolutely game changing for me.

[03:17:03] Other influences, I almost had to say my guru in India because that was a massive change in perspective and seeing myself in creating a life of knowing I needed to work on myself and on a daily basis and seeing the spiritual side of things that I didn't have access to before either.

[03:17:26] For everything wrong he did, and he did harm people, so I could never have recommended him even though he's not alive anymore to recommend, he taught me not to have a guru. And when I became a kite without a string, is how I felt when I finally was able to like, oh, he's on the front page of the Saturday edition of, I believe it was the Globe and Mail Lifestyle.

[03:17:53] Because he had some infiltrators and some reporters that went in to check out what he was doing, and they published. And then I'm like, clip, I don't need to venerate myself. I don't need to worship anybody. I don't need to promote because I'm always saying his name so I don't look like I'm giving myself credit for knowledge. And it was like, oh, I could give myself credit for knowledge if I want. In my choice, if I want to do that, I can. So I would credit him.

[03:18:24] And then a third one, I'm going to have to make this one up while we are talking right now, is my own internal life, my relationship with God, that when everything falls apart and I have nothing, that's when God gives me direct knowledge. It's the child archetype, by the way, that there's no middleman or interloper in that relationship.

[03:18:52] It's also the lover archetype we didn't talk about very much, which is having access and the highest value for truth and beauty. Beauty is truth. Truth is beauty. The first half of the journey, it's a real me and them kind of a, am I okay? Am I okay? More ego-based kind of a journey.

[03:19:18] And this is where you resolve that, not to say that's a problem. It's just that it's resolved for the second half of the journey, and then it's between you and God and you and your soul no longer needing permission from anybody and battling new demons and shadows.

[03:19:36] Luke: Amen. Well, I want to thank you for joining me. And I think a thank you is in order for Jarrod. If I'm not mistaken, you recommended Beth? Humbly over there. Thank you, sir. He's good. He'll come out of pocket with some great guests sometimes. He doesn't do it often. When he does, I'm like, all right, I better pay attention.

[03:19:56] He's got a good track record. And so we can thank Jarrod for our introduction. And I'm so glad that you made time to come out here and hang out with me. It's been so fun. I've learned so much. And I'm just excited for the audience that's not yet aware of you to learn about you and dig into your stuff.

[03:20:12] Beth: Fantastic. God bless you. God bless you, Jarrod, for these connections. How synchronistic. If I hadn't made one phone call to Freeman, who you were listening to, at that moment when God told me to do it, this wouldn't have happened. Because it was a little string of events dependent on that. I think it's time to talk to Freeman.

[03:20:29] Luke: Epic. I love it.

[03:20:31] Beth: I know.

[03:20:31] Luke: Cool. And here we are. All right. So we'll let you get out of here and work on your move to Texas.

[03:20:38] Beth: Okay. Fantastic. All right. Thank you so much for having me.

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