335. Stem Cell Healing Miracles & Ketamine Therapy W/ Dr. Joy Kong

Joy Kong

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Dr. Joy Kong talks about regenerative cells, science-based skincare, and ketamine in this deep dive into stem cell therapy's integrative benefits.

Joy Kong, M.D. is a UCLA-trained, triple board-certified physician (American Board of Psychiatry & Neurology, American Board of Addiction Medicine, American Board Anti-Aging & Regenerative Medicine). She is the president of Thea Center for Regenerative Medicine in Los Angeles, California, where she specializes in stem cell therapy and brain care.

Dr. Kong is an avid educator, and founded the American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy, where she trains other physicians on stem cell therapy. As a proponent for high-quality clinical research, Dr. Kong is committed to originating and conducting such research studies to help advance the field of regenerative medicine.

Dr. Kong is the founder and CEO of Chara Biologics, a company dedicated to providing cutting-edge regenerative medicine products in the US and the global market. She developed the most potent and comprehensive stem cell product in the country with a patent-pending formulation. Dr. Kong was recognized for her contribution to the field and was awarded the "Top Doctor of the Year in Stem Cell Therapy 2019" and "Empowered Woman of the Year 2019," and was named "Stem Cell Doctor of the Decade" in 2021 by the prestigious IAOTP (International Association of Top Professionals).

Dr. Kong's memoir "Tiger of Beijing" has garnered tremendous interest, and was named 2020 Book of the Year and showcased at Time Square.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Dr. Joy Kong, a stem cell and brain care pioneer, is a true visionary when it comes to extracting the maximum potential from our meat suits. My recent stem cell IV transplant at her clinic, THEA Center for Regenerative Medicine, marked my final hurrah in Los Angeles.

I’ve dabbled with stem cell treatment before, but this stuff — or should I say, this tissue — is some next-level biohacking, literally plunging intelligence directly into your bloodstream.

Her holistic healing system hits all the touchpoints: stem cell tissue to fortify and rejuvenate cell production, ketamine therapy to expand consciousness and cure brain trauma, and an out-of-this-world skincare cream, CharaOmni, that’s wholly extinguished my stubborn crow's feet. 

Prepare to uplevel from the inside out!

P.S. You can get a discount on this ridiculous skincare cream without the stem cell treatment by using the code LUKESTOREY10 at CharaOmni.com.

10:22 — Dr. Joy Kong’s Medical Background

  • The differences between Eastern and Western medicine 
  • The philosophy of anti-aging medicine 
  • The bubble of Western medical training
  • Why pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, and the FDA are a toxic triangle

27:39 —CharaOmni: Skincare That’s Not Skin Deep 

  • The ingredients that make it so special
  • The complex process of getting stem cell tissue from body to bottle 
  • My stem cell IV experience
  • Cell DNA and how it works in your body 

50:49 — Why Use Birth Tissue? 

  • How my first stem cell transplant compared to Dr. Kong’s 
  • Why bone marrow and body fat transplants are inferior modalities
  • The reasons why some doctors don’t use birth tissue

1:08:52 —The Benefits of Stem Cell Therapy

  • The immediate anti-inflammatory effects
  • Immune modulation
  • Breaking down scar tissue
  • Killing off toxic senescent cells 
  • Natural beauty maintenance 
  • Preserving healthy tissue
  • Stem cell therapy outside of the United States

1:41:06 —Unlocking the Science of Ketamine Therapy

  • How Ketamine changes brainwaves (it’s wild!) 
  • Consciousness expansion with Ketamine
  • Dr. Kong’s breakthroughs and methodology 
  • Bodywork, Ketamine, and biohacking tools

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

[00:00:00]Luke Storey:  I'm Luke story. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Here we are on Life Stylist podcast, Joy. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:27]Joy Kong:  Oh, you're so welcome. Yeah, this is great.

[00:00:30]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I'm glad we're able to do this in person. As you know, I'm leaving town, hence the junk all over the house and the studio here. And we had gone back and forth a little bit trying to nail down a date. And I just did not want to do this on Zoom, especially after having come to your clinic the other day, and had the stem cell treatment, and looked at your whole operation, I just wanted to sit down with you in person, so I'm glad you made time. Thank you.

[00:00:54]Joy Kong:  Yeah, this is a pleasure. And I get to meet this precious friend.

[00:00:58]Luke Storey:  You got your co-host, Cookie Man. She looks extremely happy to be there.

[00:01:03]Joy Kong:  Co-host Cookie. There it is. Alright.

[00:01:06]Luke Storey:  So, let's jump right in, and for those interested, somewhere on my Facebook page, you can see the stem cell procedure that we did at Joy's office, so that was there, but I'm curious how you gravitated as a doctor toward the anti aging medicine, and all of the regenerative stuff, and the cutting edge kind of medicine technology that you're into?

[00:01:28]Joy Kong:  Yeah, maybe I'll just give you a quick overview of my journey. So, I actually grew up in China. My first 20 years was in Beijing. And so, growing up in the Chinese system, there's always a sense that you could use Chinese medicine when necessary and you can use Western medicine when necessary. Each are good for certain things. Nothing is perfect for everything. So, there's already a sense that you utilize whatever that works, right? So, an integration.

[00:01:56] Like in my mom's medicine, there's Western medicine, Chinese medicine, everything's mixed together. And she's asked me, what's your symptom? After I tell her, and she will have her diagnosis, and she will reach out and either use Chinese medicine or Western medicine. So, she'll pull out whatever magic it is. So, that's kind my background. And when I came here, eventually deciding to go into medicine, well, I decided to go into psychiatry because I was fascinated by the brain.

[00:02:21] And then, I got board-certified in psychiatry, and later on, addiction medicine. But I've tried to be integrative in my approach in treating patients, but I saw the limitation in the system in what was done. And I was trying very hard to integrate what I've learned from Chinese medicine with the Western psychiatric approach, but those two are such vastly different languages, and I had trouble really, truly integrate them.

[00:02:47] And when I encountered what's called antiaging medicine, which is really an offshoot of functional medicine or integrative medicine, there are many names for it. But basically, the whole new branch of medicine, their essence is about looking at the body as a whole. So, the whole body has many, many, many things working together, including various nutrition. How that affects your body? How hormones are affecting your body. What about toxicity? How is that interacting?

[00:03:18] What about the different organs, how they affect other organs? So, everything becomes a system approach. And this whole branch of medicine not only is looking at things holistically like Chinese medicine, but is using modern scientific language to explain how different systems may be connected. So, all of a sudden, in my mind, all the dots are getting connected. So, I could use a holistic approach looking at the body as a whole, but with scientific language to integrate how I can look at the disease and how the therapeutic treatments can come together.

[00:03:53] And that's when I just had an aha moment, this is what I need to do, I could be holistic but still be scientific. So, antiaging, the beauty of antiaging medicine, some people don't like the name for it, but really, it's a beautiful concept, because it's about looking at aging as a prequel to disease. And really, it is the prequel to disease, because when you have disease, it's more like, let's say a body is like a house, and when you are diagnosed with disease where you show symptoms, that's like the house caught on fire.

[00:04:28] You've seen things are really happening, smokes are coming out. But guess what, before the smokes are coming out, the fire got caught on, things are happening, things are smoldering, and that's what has not been picked up by our Western medicine approach. They're only waiting for you to get sick. That's my entire medical education. I went to a great school, UCLA, and they're fairly forward-thinking, but still, the entire medical education is about waiting for the patient to get sick.

[00:04:59] Let's just wait for people to get sick, and then we'll have all these sophisticated diagnostic criteria, this imaging and all these things, and we'll figure out what's causing the sickness. And then, we throw drugs, give them drugs, or do surgery. That's entire approach. But what if you catch the little smoldering things before the smoke comes out? And that's the philosophy of antiaging medicine, you prevent what's causing the disease, because what's causing the disease is also what's causing aging, they're hand in hand.

[00:05:32] When we are older, we get sicker and they just come together because their cells are getting older, getting dysfunctional. It can't recognize cancer very well. It can't fight diseases very well. Your tissues are fibrosed and it's not being replaced by new tissue sufficiently. That's why everything starts to break down. So, if you prevent the breakdown, then you can prevent disease. So, what a beautiful model to help people live healthy, a healthy life, right? It's not about, oh, we're fighting aging.

[00:06:01] No, we're making people living a vibrant life and prevent them from getting sick. And so, you can gracefully age and enjoy this wonderful health, but eventually, one problem with life is that we are all going to die, right? Why do we have to die? Maybe one day, we're going to prevent that. But right now, we know that people run out of stem cells. So, just look at, if we are degenerating, degenerating, things are running low on fuel, and then you're not replacing out any of these damaged cells, then guess what, wrinkles start to show, hair start to gray, and then all the functions, you can't see, the inside of the body, your organs are also degenerating, you just don't see it.

[00:06:50] All you see is outside. And you think, oh, I'm aging, but guess what, you're aging everywhere. So, one reason you're aging like that is because your body cannot replace the damaged cells. So, all your cells are getting older, and your body's just not keeping up, replacing the damaged cells. So, why do we die? Well, if you run out of stem cells to replace all the damaged cells, all the cells that are not functioning very well, then your organs just start to not function very well. Eventually, everything shuts down. So, we're looking at what can we do to prevent that. So, stem cells is one of the tricks, if we can replace those messages. 

[00:07:33]Luke Storey:  We're definitely going to get into that. A couple of questions came up, though, during your answer. And one, I find it's interesting that in China, it's not an either or with traditional herbalism and the pharmaceutical allopathic route. I find that really interesting, because here, outside of functional medicine, and the types of medicine that you practice and that you mentioned, but if you go to your average family doctor or specialist, it's very rare that they're going to say, hey, try this herb, or medicinal mushroom, or something like that. 

[00:08:07] That's just not in their lexicon. And I know from experience, if I mentioned to a doctor, oh, I've had this thing going on, and I'm taking this herb, and it seems to help, do you have any other recommendations? They look at me like I'm insane for mentioning an herb. Like there's no possibility that anything that grows out of the ground naturally could ever help you, which is funny. But in China, from what you say then, the ancient, ancient Chinese system of medicine then is still revered and considered legitimate in the medical field.

[00:08:39]Joy Kong:  Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a huge book, I think, written like 5,000 years ago. It's categorizing all these herbs and their medicinal qualities. And it is very comprehensive. So, Chinese medicine kept evolving. Of course, it works very well. You can see how many Chinese there are. But the integration is about looking at your body as a whole. In Western medicine, if you have something wrong with your eyes, then they just look at your eyes. But the Chinese medicine, they will sense your pulse, and they will look at your tongue, they will look at your entire constitution, and they will decide what system, what organ systems, they talk about systems. 

[00:09:19] Like for example, the meridian runs through the eye and the liver, so it's all connected. It could be something wrong with your liver. So, if you correct this whole system energy flow, then your eyes can heal. But different people with seemingly same eye problem may have different constitutions. They have entire different, just the way their body operates. So, they may have problems with different energy systems.

[00:09:47] So, two people presenting with the same symptom, when the Chinese medicine doctor is diagnosing them, the diagnosis could be completely different, because it's according to each person's, what's going on with that person, because you're looking at the body as a whole. So, they may give them completely different herbs and they can cure the same problem. But that's the thing, that they're looking at entire body in a very, very different way. They don't focus on just what's surfacing.

[00:10:16]Luke Storey:  Well said. That totally makes sense, because I can see how in our system here, yeah, if you go in and you're having a problem with your eye, there's never going to be a discussion about anything else other than some drops or drugs that we can give you to alleviate the symptom. That's very interesting. Also interesting that it seems here that part of the kind of the internal error in the system is that medical education, training, et cetera, is so deeply intertwined with pharmaceutical companies, right?

[00:10:53] So, even if a doctor is openminded, let's say, and just does the Western medicine path, goes to med school, and maybe they take some herbs at home and they're aware of these things to some degree, they're not incentivized at all to offer that information to patients, right? Because you've got to have your medical office, and your staff, and there's a huge overhead, and you've got medical bills from med school. I'm assuming that go on for years and you want to make some cash, right? And so, the system, it seems to be built around surgeries, which make a lot of money and pharmaceutical drugs. So, how is there not that same sort of conflict of interest then in the Chinese medical system?

[00:11:34]Joy Kong:  Well, it's so steeped. I mean, doesn't have this money-making kind of a realm. There's individual practitioners of Chinese medicine, these old Chinese medicine doctors, they see you, you probably pay them a fee, and then they write your prescription of all these herbs. And then, you go to the pharmacy who have all these herbs, and then they will measure different herbs and give you a packet. So, it's a low-cost system. The herbs or whatever from insects, it just come from the earth, from the ground.

[00:12:05] There's no patent. Some cost a lot, some don't, but the system, it has its own balance, whereas here, the cause is astronomical, right? So, people are interested in medical history. The US used to have different medical systems, including homoeopathy. Of course, the osteopaths are allowed to maintain, but the chiropractic, everything else was squeezed kind of outside the mainstream. So, there's this monopoly of what medicine is. So, I was educated within the system and definitely very wrapped in it because that's all I was told.

[00:12:46] So, if you don't look outside, then you're living forever in your own little bubble. So, the bubble is composed of, yes, pharmaceutical company companies producing drugs and making huge profit from it, right? And then, they also have significant influence on FDA who are supposed to be approving the drugs. But a lot of the FDA officials, after they finished their tenure at the FDA, then they go on to become executives in pharmaceutical companies. 

[00:13:20] And FDA, a lot of the funding comes from the pharmaceutical companies. And then, they also have this control over medical education because they support a lot of the funding of the medical education. So then, you need to talk about things that they're happy with, right? You don't want to go too far outside of this realm and telling them that, don't use any drugs. I mean, that is the whole purpose, right? Why would they be funding the medical education?

[00:13:46] So, we finish medical school, four years, right? We're all in this bubble. And you finally left medical school. And guess what, you're required to do continuing medical education to earn your credits so that you can continue your license. And then, you do that through, a lot of times, going to conferences. In conferences, you earn credit, you take courses. And guess who funds those conferences, who are putting up the money? So, you literally get kept in this bubble. 

[00:14:15] And then, the insurance company is in on it, right? So, if you prescribe drugs, then your insurance company will cover. So, there's this togetherness between the pharmaceutical company and the insurance company. And I saw that very vividly when I was a medical director of a few rehab centers in Malibu. And I was very much trying to do this integrative approach. So, I was trying to check people's nutrition, their hormones. And if I could give them a natural substance to help harmonize their body, build up their body, and repair their system that's driving the cravings and addiction behavior, then I feel like I'm making fundamental changes.

[00:14:58] I'm not just covering up the symptoms, right? I'm trying to heal the person. But a lot of times, by the time I say, okay, this supplement will help you, this will help you, the patient comes back to me saying, you know what, doctor? Can you just give me a drug? Because insurance company doesn't cover the supplement, so I don't have the money to pay for the supplements, and it adds up, it would be cheaper. Can you just write a drug? So, it was very discouraging for me, because I'm really trying to heal from the sources, the root problems. And the system was defeating me in a way, defeating my attempts.

[00:15:35]Luke Storey:  Wow. Yeah, I know that story. I wish you would have been my doctor when I was in rehab. Not that I could have afforded the supplements, but, oh, man. But so many things, I mean, there's been a lot of years since I checked myself into rehab, but it will be 24 years on Monday, actually.

[00:15:55]Joy Kong:  Congratulations.

[00:15:55]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Thank you. But I think of just all the mood swings and just had a terrible time emotionally for the first few years until I got into alternative health and all the things that I guess what they call biohacking now. And then, I started to kind of unlock those barriers to fulfillment, just physical balance, but it took a long time and no one was talking about that. It was like everyone's drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, eating sugar. That's the early recovery diet, which is the worst shit you should ever do if you're trying to get your neurotransmitters and hormones on track.

[00:16:33]Joy Kong:  Yes, you're just keeping up the poison. So, imagine if the insurance company had covered supplements. It's cheap, right? It doesn't cost much money at all. Compared to drugs, it's nothing. If they had done that and allowed this new kind of medicine to flourish. Now, I can tell you, as a doctor, as somebody that graduated from medical school, even at UCLA, I had about half an hour of education on nutrition. And then, I don't think they taught us anything.

[00:17:01] Maybe there's altogether less than 15 minutes of supplements. I mean, we don't know anything about supplements, just like, oh, some people are using that, they say, but there's no evidence. So, when they said there's no evidence, they're just not looking at the evidence. And then, when they talking about—yeah, because people have been used for thousands of years, right? There are research studies in all these different countries, but they don't want to look at it, because it's not important. That's not part of their purpose. This whole education, that's not the purpose.

[00:17:33] So, when we entrust our doctors to check on the supplements bottle, always say, consult with your physician before you take the supplements, that's more for liability. Guess what, when you take this to your physician, what they will do, they'll be like, oh, okay, I'll get back to you on this, because they have no idea what's going on there. They don't know what it is and how it interacts with medications. When you leave, they will go on the internet and start looking at this herb, what the hell is it? And is there any interactions with what I'm prescribing? That's how you clear what the physicians. They don't know.

[00:18:10]Luke Storey:  Wow. Okay. Good stuff. Well, I have in mind—

[00:18:14]Joy Kong:  Hey, I just give it to people straight.

[00:18:16]Luke Storey:  No, I love it. I love your passion. And anyone that listens to this show on a regular basis is going to be somewhat familiar with this whole system. I had in my notes here, sometimes, I'll have something that's not the main topic I wanted to talk about, and then it slips through the cracks and I don't get to ask it. So, this is one of my show notes here, actually put something that I was very curious about, actually, aside from the stem cells, and ketamine, and stuff that I want to get into with you.

[00:18:40] But it's this Chara Omni lotion that you created, and that's how I first found you, as someone, I think, in your PR, somebody reached out, hey, you want to try this lotion, and I'm like, yeah, sure, send it over, I'll try it out. And I get sent a lot of stuff. I'm very grateful to be in the position I'm in. People send me things to try all the time. And I thought, whatever, it's another lotion, I'll throw it in the drawer. But I looked at the ingredients and there were things in there that I've never seen in a face lotion.

[00:19:07] And I also saw that it was pretty expensive, more so than your average like organic lotion at Whole Foods or something. And what I noticed in there were peptides and stem cells, and that was very interesting. But there were a number of other ingredients. And I want to cover some of them with you. But this stuff is just incredible. And so, I wanted to give you props for the formulation. I just kind of find out how that came to be, because I covet this stuff. I mean, Alyson doesn't even know I have it. 

[00:19:36] It's over in my little corner. I have it in my little medicine cabinet. And every night, I take a tiny, tiny little bit like, I don't know, the size of like four pieces of rice, and I put it just on these fingers and I just put it on my eyes, because I don't want to waste it with the rest of my dumb face. This is where the wrinkles happened, you know what I mean? But in this stuff, you've got this Wharton's jelly extract, amniotic extracellular matrix, peptides, hyaluronic acid, grapeseed oil, evening primrose oil, honeysuckle flower, aloe vera leaf extract. 

[00:20:13] That one, I know. I would put that in a lotion. Camomile extract, white tea leaf extract, CoQ10, tocopherol, and Alpha-lipoic acid. And a lot of those, like the last three, are things that I take as supplements. I eat them. And whenever I would think like, oh, I'll put CoQ10 on my face, so I kind of wanted to just talk about why that stuff works so well, and how you formulated it, and what stem cells do when you actually put them on your body externally versus inside. 

[00:20:43]Joy Kong:  So, as far as stem cells, I mean, the cells are not going to be alive in the product. The cells has to be kept in a particular condition, so once this is processed in the cream. But what's special about the product is that they're agents that are used to help basically have the cell membrane break down and release all the internal components, which are full of growth factors. So, it's an abundance of growth factors and exosomes.

[00:21:12] So, all these things are embedded, but it's from Wharton's jelly, which is the gelatinous material in the umbilical cord. So, it's full of these highly, highly therapeutic and regenerative molecules. So, it's those that gets released. And that in combination with peptides that are specifically great for antiinflammation, and anti-wrinkle, and also, collagen-promoting kind of peptides. So, the reason I came up with the cream really initially was kind of for myself, because I got frustrated with trying to find a good cream.

[00:21:50] I'm all about antiaging, like I was talking about how I do IV stem cells every three months, and I want to put something on my face that's really, really healthy, right? I don't want anything that has any toxic substances. And so, I try to get organic ones and things that are just fully natural, and I realized that either the texture was not that great, or when I look at ingredients, it's not completely natural. It's like what you just said, it's fully natural, and what's this? 

[00:22:22] So, I realized that that's not really fully natural. And the fully, fully natural ones, I may get a sample when I go to a trade show, this fully organic, natural, and I leave it in my drawer for like a month or two before I get to it, by the time I get to it, it has different layers. So, it was like, I don't think I feel comfortable putting this on my face. They've already segregated. I'm not sure this is stable. So, it was frustrating. So, I thought, I have all this knowledge, right?

[00:22:52] I want something that's 100% natural and I have access to the most regenerative components, which is the umbilical cord, with all this incredible, incredible molecules that in our body, it's just that we don't have much anymore. So, we can use that and use the power peptides, which are just natural little fragments of amino acids that sense particular potent signals. So, that's naturally occurring peptides.

[00:23:18] So, we put those together and add all these natural ingredients that have the ability to clear the skin, skin cleansing, providing the antioxidants, and promote collagen production, and even out skin tone, and shrinking pore. I mean, there's a lot of ingredients. So, how we can put all these incredible things together. And we even have prebiotics, right? That healthy bacteria. And so, prebiotics and a lot of natural oils that are highly nourishing for the skin.

[00:23:52] So, putting them all together, and of course, when I tried it, it was the best cream I've ever had. It's because I use it morning and night. And once you put it on, you will know that it's going to be hydrated and perfect texture for the entire day until you want to do it at night, because I do it twice a day. So, that's really how it came about. So, I really think it's the best cream there is. I haven't seen anything like it.

[00:24:22]Luke Storey:  That's why I brought it up. Honestly, it really is. And I mean, I'm a guy, so I'm not that picky. If I run out of like face oil, I just put coconut oil on my face, whatever, like you know what I mean? I'm not particularly picky, but I just notice like, oh, my gosh, when I put this stuff on my face, it just feels really good. Especially at night, like before I go to bed, it's really relaxing with my eyes.

[00:24:42]Joy Kong:  Oh, yeah. And people telling me, their fine lines were going away within three weeks. Also, the dark spots, certain defects were also going away. And some were saying, what's in this? It's crazy. What did you put in this? Just allowing your skin to heal on its own.

[00:25:01]Luke Storey:  Well, the question that I had when someone from your team reached out, when I saw the stem cells, and then looked into it, and it said, the umbilical stem cells, and I was like, oh, are these from abortions? And I emailed them back, I was like I said, actually, you know what, before I said yes, I sent it over, I said, I just have one question, if this is from like aborted babies, I can't participate in that situation. And they assured me, no, it's not. And I just believed them, because you seem like a legitimate company, the website looks real and everything. And as we get into the stem cell thing, how does the process of getting stem cells from umbilical cords during the birth process happen? 

[00:25:43]Joy Kong:  Oh, yeah. I don't even know who, I have no contact with any clinics that does abortion, I don't even know. I mean, that's not even a realm that I connected with. So, the way that these birth tissue are collected is when a mother is about to give birth, they are asked, do you want to save the tissue, and have it processed, and stored for a future use for your baby? So, basically, 90% of the time, mothers say no, because it costs a few thousand dollars to keep it every year. 

[00:26:21]Luke Storey:  So, they could get it encapsulated or something like that? 

[00:26:24]Joy Kong:  No.

[00:26:24]Luke Storey:  How does it work if they want to save it? How is it preserved? 

[00:26:26]Joy Kong:  So, usually, they save the blood, they can process it, which means that they will separate out the red blood cells from the more premature cells. So, the stem cell portion, the premature, very young premature cells, so those cells are kept, and then they are cryopreserved, and saved, basically put in liquid nitrogen. So then, they can be used 20, 30, 40, 50 years later. 

[00:26:54]Luke Storey:  By the same person? 

[00:26:55]Joy Kong:  Yeah.

[00:26:56]Luke Storey:  Oh, interesting. So, one could have a baby elect to have them preserved in that way. And then, when the baby's 17 years old, and gets in a soccer accident, and busts his ass, they could put his own stem cells back in.

[00:27:08]Joy Kong:  Yeah, or have a traumatic brain injury, all of a sudden, they can't walk, and you can inject the cells and restore their function, or the person could be diagnosed with some other terrible illness, or God forbid, leukemia, things like that, then you can use the same cells to repopulate the body, the same healthy ones. So, it used to be, people are only preserving cord blood cells, and then they realize that cord tissue have a tremendous amount of mesenchymal stem cells, which is really kind of the engine cells for regeneration.

[00:27:42] So then, people started to process cells and store cells from the core tissue. So, the umbilical cord, you can either get the blood out, or you can dissect the tissue and get the cells mostly from Wharton's jelly, free the cells up, and then store them. But they cost a lot of money and a lot of families may not be willing to do that. And then, they're asked, if you're not going to preserve it, would you like to donate it?

[00:28:06] So, once they say they are willing, they have to fill out this very, very extensive questionnaire and there's almost 90 questions. So, it asks questions about their personal, their health history, their work history. So, toxic exposures or travel history, their sexual history, their prenatal history, their partner's history, entire family history. So, they look at everything. And one thing about donation of these tissue, it's a true donation.

[00:28:39] You cannot be compensated in any way. You can't be given a pen. You're not going to be able to be awarded any way. This is truly that you are willing to donate. So, this kind of prevent people from lying on this form just so that they could get their tissue accepted. Because the reason you can't give them anything is because it is illegal to sell human tissue. So, you can't sell human tissue in this country. It has to be a donation.

[00:29:11] So, after they fill out the form and they fulfill the criteria, so different companies may have different criteria, our company, we have one of the most stringent criteria. So, anything that's suspicious, that the cells are not going to be accepted. So, after they agreed to donate and their questionnaire meets the criteria, then of course, they have to have their prenatal follow-up. All their history and everything has to look good. And on the day of delivery, they have to be in perfect health and the baby has to be healthy.

[00:29:53] So, even if they have a low-degree fever, that's scrapped, they can't donate. That's it. We're not going to accept it. So, it has to be a good delivery. And the delivery actually has to be caesarean section, not has to be elective caesarean section. The reason they do that is not to allow the baby to go through the vaginalis canal, which is dirty, which has a lot of bacteria. And so, when you come through that canal, things can easily get contaminated.

[00:30:23] Whereas, if you do caesarean section, you're opening the person up. Everything is sterile. And then, you take the tissue, right? You take the baby out, and then you cut the cord, and there's the placenta, and then you can save this birth tissue, right? Usually, this birth tissue is going to be tossed in the trash in the biological waste. But when these people are willing to donate and they meet the criteria, then the procurement company would put the tissue carefully in a sterile bag, put on ice, and then send it over, overnight it to labs, whichever lab that's going to process this.

[00:30:58] And so, the lab, once they accept the tissue, they receive the tissue, they have to do testing to check lots of—basically, they go through the same stringent testing that an organ transplant donation is going through. So, you have to check for hepatitis, HIV, syphilis, and all the conditions that are tested for organ transplant. And our company actually go above and beyond to test even more, including Lyme disease, and Chagas, and prion disease, and all that stuff.

[00:31:30] So, once you test everything, you can process the cells, you can start processing, but if the test comes positive for any conditions, then that has to be tossed, that's not to be used. But if everything looks good, and you process the cells, and you have the finished product, right? So, you may have cryopreserved the product, and then the finished product is sent out to an outside lab to test for sterility. So, is the product sterile? Did you have contamination during your processing? So, they have to grow to see if any bacteria, anything grows, and they have to test for endotoxin. So, basically, toxins released by the bacteria. 

[00:32:14] And that would take a couple of weeks to come back. And so, when that comes back negative, when everything is cleared, that means then this product can be used for human use. You can actually give to people. If that comes back positive, basically, it's no good, then they have tossed a whole batch. Unfortunately, there are some unscrupulous companies, which I would not name, who did not wait until the final result comes back. And they are so eager to sell the product, they just sold it, and then results came back showing that there are bacteria contamination. And then, what? Then, they scramble, right? But some people are already hurt.

[00:32:56]Luke Storey:  Wow. Damn. Well, I'm glad to hear this now after you gave me an IV, at least I'm associated okay. I mean, I looked on your website and you sent me that really comprehensive PDF ahead of time. And I had my questions and all of that, but I felt confident. And my gut check on it was like, this girl is legit. She's not messing around. You seem very integris about what you do. So, that's why I was comfortable with that. But still, it's a little uneasy for some reason, still just putting something from another person's body, a mother or a baby's body in your body.

[00:33:33] And I, afterward, like did have a couple of thoughts, like, I don't know, what if their DNA was mutated, or if I got like remnants of a mutant vaccine that they had, or just weird thoughts like that. And I thought, well, people get blood transfusions all the time. Like I go donate blood every few months to be a good person and to get iron out of my body. And so, someone is walking around with my blood in them, probably walking around LA or a bunch of people at this point.

[00:33:59]Joy Kong:  Well, your red blood cells do not have DNA in it. So, these cells do have DNA. But the function of these cells, in a sense, it goes to your body, it does this thing, and most of them go away. But it's the million-dollar question of, how much of the cells actually stay in my body? Right? Because a lot of times, to fix certain tissue, we want the cells to stay and make new cells. But initially, that's what people thought. Stem cells are functioning.

[00:34:32] They thought, stem cell therapy is by giving the stem cells to the body so the stem cells can divide and form the new tissue. And that's how the person gets benefits. And then, as we go through years and years of research, and clinical study, and realizing, oh, I guess the benefit is not so much about the cells becoming part of the human tissue. It's really the cells that are sending out signals. And most of them don't stay in the body, but the benefit is there. So, it's really about these cells giving out signals, the right information. It's like a disseminating information.

[00:35:10]Luke Storey:  Oh, that's interesting.

[00:35:12]Joy Kong:  Yeah. So, I've asked some of the most prominent scientists around the world like, how much of these cells actually stay in the body? Right? I'm doing the therapy. I'm giving it to people. So, how much actually stay? They're like, nobody knows. Nobody knows. But I think the consensus I've been getting is between 2% to 5%. So, whatever I gave you, maybe 2% to 5% actually stays. So, I want to kind of give you, also allay some of the fears or the concerns that you might have, other people have. For example, I have done IV transplantation on myself every three months, right? 

[00:35:49] So, I have lots of people's DNA in me. And what I want people to realize is that what's called, actually, there's a name for it, microchimeras. And so, chimera, it means two animals or two things are becoming one organism, right? So, microchimeras, it's happening on a small scale. And that is prevalent in nature. That happens all the time, even in humans. And one typical example is what's happening in a woman's body. So, first, they found out from a Harvard study, they did an autopsy on these old women who died, right? 

[00:36:24] That they're old, and then they were dissecting their brain, and they're looking at the DNA in the brain. And the easiest way to find out if there's any foreign DNA is by testing the Y chromosome, right? The female, X chromosome, the male, Y chromosomes. So, there should be no reason that there's Y chromosome in a female body, right? And guess what, they found out, all these women who have given birth to male children have Y chromosomes in their brain. So, that's the first thing.

[00:36:50] And incidentally, they actually found out that the Y chromosomes, the presence of that actually was protective against Alzheimer's. But that was, maybe the number of subjects were not sufficient to draw that conclusion, but that was interesting, right? Because we all know when a woman that has these autoimmune conditions, often, their conditions gets better when they're pregnant. That's a known fact in the medical community. So, why are they getting better during pregnancy?

[00:37:19] Could it be that they're getting a mini-stem cell transfusion from the baby? Because we know there's communication, right? And even cellular material. So, obviously, the male or even the female just can't tell, right? So, even when you have given birth to females as a woman doesn't mean that there's no exchange. We're able to tell really easily whether or not the males has got into the female's body. So, when you are having, carrying this baby, there's exchange.

[00:37:50] The mother cells, the baby cells, that got into the mother, because later on, what they found out is the cells, the Y chromosomes, because that's what they used to test, are not just in the brain, it's the breast. It's basically in all the tissue, everywhere. So, that already happens in nature. And then, there's a follow-up study, which is fascinating, because they found out that 60% of women actually have Y chromosomes in them. And so, they couldn't account for that by just having been pregnant with male children. 

[00:38:26] And so, they're looking at, what if they had a pregnancy, but it was a miscarriage and they didn't know about? So, statistically, that they're looking at that, adding that into the factor. And then, they are also adding the factor, oh, what if they were in the mother's womb when they were little fetuses and there were a male sibling that no one knew about, the sibling died in utero. So, what if we account for that? So, they were adding all these potential factors to see if they could account for the 60% of Y chromosomes in women's body, they couldn't. So, the only conclusion, the author was saying, well, I think the only way we could explain it is through male and female intercourse.

[00:39:05]Luke Storey:  Really?

[00:39:06]Joy Kong:  Yes. So, isn't that enlightening?

[00:39:09]Luke Storey:  Why didn't my mind go there? I was waiting for the answer to the riddle, and I'm like, that's so obvious.

[00:39:15]Joy Kong:  Yeah. So, it already happens in nature all the time, because a baby and the mother, their DNA is only 50% identical, right? So, you have a foreign DNA, right? Completely foreign. But because they're so young, they're able to go inside, stay in the body, and be adapted to the new body. If the baby had grown up because of the 50% difference, the baby could, if you have, let's say, a transplantation, let's say, a bone marrow transplant, if your baby gives you transplant, or you as a mother, sometimes, you can't donate to your baby or the baby cannot donate to the mother, because the baby has grown, because they've expressed all these surface receptors and they've established their own identity. But when the cells are so young and you put in the person's body, it actually adapts. It speaks a different language.

[00:40:02]Luke Storey:  Oh, okay. 

[00:40:04]Joy Kong:  It's really fascinating.

[00:40:04]Luke Storey:  So, the stem cells are not differentiated yet. They're just a blank palette and they've not expressed as whatever they're going to be, tissue, whatever.

[00:40:13]Joy Kong:  This is why it's really fascinating, because people have done cord blood transplantation, right? Umbilical cord blood in lieu of bone marrow transplantation. So, if someone has leukemia, you can give them from a perfectly matched donor, and take their bone marrow, and transfuse it, and then allow the cells to establish in the new person, in their own bone marrow, or you can give umbilical cord blood. The composition is very similar. So, umbilical cord blood, when they did experiments, you don't match anything. The HLA markers, you don't match it, completely unmatched.

[00:40:54] You have way less potential for any problems than a perfectly matched adult, perfectly HLA-matched adult bone marrow transplant, because our cells are so complex, right? All these surface markers, just because you tested the major HLA markers, there's still many you didn't test, but because the cells are so mature, everything's manifested. And then, you put it in another person's body, guess what, they don't get along. The body doesn't recognize it. But completely unmatched. You don't even bother testing it and you put in the new person, there's very, very little problems.

[00:41:34]Luke Storey:  Wow. Okay. Cool. So, from talking to you the other day briefly, and we did a little pre-interview, but for those that don't see that, I'll go ahead and kind of recap it now. I was expressing that I had had stem cell treatment a few years back out with Dr. Harry Adelson and Dr. Amy Killen in Park City, Docere Clinics. And for that procedure, which, by the way, for anyone watching, is on YouTube. It's extremely gory, because it's a legit surgery. Like when I went with you the other day, it was just like getting a Myers' cocktail, like an IV. 

[00:42:06] It's just totally chill, drip in your arm, and you just sit there and hang out. But this was under anesthesia, and they did adipose-derived stem cells and bone-marrow-derived stem cells. So, you know this, but I'll explain to the audience. So, what they did is they took basically what was the equivalent of doing liposuction on my back fat, I guess, kind of in my back, like a muffin top or on the back side of the muffin, and really gory on video from what I hear, I'll never watch it. And then, they take the fat or blood out of there, whatever it is, get your own stem cells, and then they went into that, what's that bone called on your butt? Like that plate, your hip bone on the back side.

[00:42:47]Joy Kong:  Iliac crest. That's usually it.

[00:42:49]Luke Storey:  Yeah. So, they basically took like an ice pick [making sounds] with the hammer, hit a big hole in that, and then extracted the bone marrow out of there, went in a centrifuge, and spun it or whatever, and extracted my own stem cells, and then put them back in to me all over my body. When I say all over, I mean all over, even the places you're thinking they wouldn't. That's Amy's, Amy does the sexual enhancement or whatever. So, yes, my penis was injected with stem cells on YouTube.

[00:43:17] I think it's behind a little sheet, hopefully, or I probably would have been banned by now. But anyway, I did that and I saw some improvement in a couple of the things. I mean, I was hoping for like a one-two punch in my 20 year back pain would just be gone in three months. And it hasn't been. I'm still working on it. I'm making some progress. But I think it was a net positive experience and I'm glad I did it. But it was pretty invasive.

[00:43:38] I mean, you're kind of laid up for a couple of days and you've got to take pain meds. And it was definitely not an easy experience. But I think for someone who has a serious longstanding injury, there's a lot of evidence to support that either of those methods can be useful. But when I talked to you, you had some different opinions about that, which is why you're doing it in the way you do it with the umbilical stem cells.

[00:44:02] So, can you break down at least your perspective on the adipose-derived and bone-marrow-derived, the endogenous versions of that, and then give us kind of an overview of what's happening outside of the United States, where the laws are more lax in other places where people are multiplying and culturing stem cells, so you get a net benefit of having more? And you said that it's possible that might not even be a benefit. Kind of break that down for people that are somewhat aware that there are kind of three different types of stem cells that you can put in yourself.

[00:44:37]Joy Kong:  Right. So, those are the three most common types, obtaining stem cells from your bone marrow, your fat, or using someone else's, which most likely is from the breast tissue. So, when I first got super excited about stem cells, I definitely looked into all of them and because I was determined to give people the best. So, by reading a ton of articles and looking at research that's been done from all around the world, including direct comparisons between these tissue sources, and looking at how potent the cells are, how safe they are, how capable they are at differentiating into different pathways, and how much antiinflammatory factors they're able to secrete, and how much lifespan they have left, so I compared everything and there was no question in my mind that the birth tissue source is superior. 

[00:45:30] I mean, that's not my conclusion. It's the conclusion of many, many, many scientists from all around the world. So, that is a given. Umbilical cord source came as a younger kid on the block. So, initially, it was bone marrow because we were doing bone marrow transplants to help with leukemia before we knew about stem cell therapy. That was really the first stem cell therapy. So, that was bone marrow. And then, they realized, oh, bone marrow.

[00:45:58] If you break the bone, when you're doing orthopedic surgery and you put some marrow there, and that actually helps to heal. So then, that's how the bone marrow started to become kind of like the gold standard for stem cell therapy. And then, the fat-derived source came onto the block, and then they realized, oh, there are actually a lot of stem cells in the fat tissue. So, it's not in the fat. It's really along the blood vessels that's nourishing the fat.

[00:46:25] So, there are all these mesenchymal stem cells that are kind of huddling around the blood vessels. So, they're separating out those cells and they found that they're very therapeutic. And then, the birth tissue came to be, and then they realized, oh, so there's just full of stem cells in this birth tissue, and that's really the engine, that the placenta and umbilical cord, they were the engine of forming a human being, right? So then, they look at the stem cell composition. 

[00:46:52] So, the umbilical cord blood has a very similar composition as the bone marrow. And the umbilical cord tissue, the MICs, because full of MICs, that's similar to kind of the fat-derived product, which is full of MICs. So, in a way, when you are doing, what I believe, the best way is to combine these two sources, right? If you can get the best from the bone marrow and the best from the fat, and which is what you did, very few people do both in one sitting.

[00:47:26] But with the birth tissue, you could do that. So, the cells are younger, they cause less potential—well, there's less potential for processing contamination. And it doesn't cause any trauma, but that aside, it actually has less tumor-promoting potentials. People might think, oh, my own cells, how is that going to happen? Guess what, if you have any existing precancerous changes or a little tumor that may be there and your own stem cells are not very smart anymore, it's not as smart as birth tissue stem cells.

[00:48:05] Because when they've done direct comparisons, the tumor, they did it both in a petri dish and on a live animal, they put the tumor, and then they put stem cells next to it. So, if you use an adult human fat-derived stem cells, you put next to the tumor, the tumor grows, because the cells are like, oh, I make things grow, right? I produce growth factors. I help everybody flourish. So, it made the tumor grow. But if you put umbilical-cord-derived stem cells next to this tumor, guess what, the tumor shrink and disappear.

[00:48:38]Luke Storey:  Wow. Damn. That's interesting.

[00:48:41]Joy Kong:  Because they have the actual intelligence that's still intact, it's able to recognize, uh-oh, you are not supposed to be there. You don't belong. You are pathological. So, what it does, at least one of the mechanisms is to secreting what's called a TRAIL ligand. So, this particular ligand actually causes apoptosis of the cancer cells.

[00:49:05]Luke Storey:  Cell death, is that what that is? 

[00:49:06]Joy Kong:  Yeah, a program cell death. It tells the tumor cells, you know what, get on this path and die. So, they still have that intelligence. That's why it's safer in that sense. There's less potential to actually exacerbate your own tumor or cancer.

[00:49:22]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[00:49:23]Joy Kong:  So, that not only is more effective, is more potent, but it's also safer.

[00:49:29]Luke Storey:  And God bless all the doctors out there that are using stem cells derived in the way that I describe, but why is anyone doing that still? Like what's the argument on the other side, in the stem cell world, where people are still doing the bone marrow? 

[00:49:44]Joy Kong:  Okay. Some people are really, really going to dislike me and attack me, possibly even make comments under your post.

[00:49:50]Luke Storey:  That's alright. It wouldn't be the first time. 

[00:49:51]Joy Kong:  But I am just going to speak the truth. Almost all stem cell therapy can have benefits, right? So, a lot of the doctors who have used the treatment swear, that has helped their patients, which I believe, wholeheartedly, just like it has helped you. It has helped people. So, they've seen benefits. So then, they're convinced that this works, this really helps. And if they're not willing to look at newcomers, of new therapeutic modality, that possibly could be a step above, then they just want to use their own particular mode.

[00:50:24] The other reason is economic, economical concerns. There's an investment involved to have your own setup, right? Either bone-marrow-derived or fat-derived, you need surgical apparatus. You have to go through a particular training. You're paying a lot of money for the training. And you've got all your staff, you're set up to do this, right? To switch gear means, what about this? I just invested all this money. What am I going to do with that? I'm getting good results, so I'm not going to switch gear. It makes no sense. I'm good. So, that's another factor that's preventing people from progressing. 

[00:51:01] To me, I don't function that way. To me, I feel an obligation to give people the very best. So, that's my moral obligation. Like I said last time, if I know that people are coming to me to get stem cell therapy and I know I can give them this thing that will give them 70% of the benefit, like they can get great results, they were pretty good, but then I also know something else can give them 90%, so I cannot live with myself to give them the 70%. I just can't. So, I will do whatever I can to give them the one that will give them 90%. So, if that means changing my business model, I'll change my business model.

[00:51:47]Luke Storey:  Well, it's interesting because, and that makes sense, and if I had just dropped 150 grand creating a surgical environment in the centrifuge and all the things I'm sure that are necessary for that kind of extraction, I get that. But what's interesting is it seems that the cost to the patient is about the same. I mean, you're talking, what, 10,000, 15,000-dollar range for a single treatment? And it seems about the same. So, I don't know, it's like, after hearing this, we might piss off some of the other doctors that are doing it the other way. Because if you are the patient, and you have that kind of cash, and you're incentivized-

[00:52:25]Joy Kong:  Well, I can tell you, once everything is set up, it doesn't cost very much to do the procedure anymore. I mean, you have to pay the OR, you pay the nurse, you pay for your own time, but it's not expensive to keep doing it anymore. But if you're buying it from a source, from a laboratory, then the cells are fairly expensive. So, you have to pay for the product. So, that's another reason. Maybe they're like, well, I'm recouping my investment, and whatever I do from now on, I'm making great profit. So, why spend the money to buy an expensive product?

[00:53:00]Luke Storey:  Ah, interesting. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Hmm. That is very interesting.

[00:53:06]Joy Kong:  But I really respect the doctors who have done everything, they've done the bone marrow, they've done the fat, and then they are so open, and they realize, oh, my God, I didn't know that this birth tissue could be a better source for my patients. Not only that, nobody, you cannot be doing the anti aging treatments that I'm doing all myself with your own tissue. First of all, you're depleting your stem cell source.

[00:53:29] And so, you take it out of hibernation, and you activate them, and you put them in your body, and they only live for about three months, and then they're gone, right? So then, you just depleted your own stem cell source. And are you going to allow yourself to be liposuctioned or your bone drilled into every three months or six months? Those people will not, right? And besides, you're just depleting, you're activating them, so you're just getting less and less in your body.

[00:53:53] And so, when utilizing a source from a healthy newborn that has potent effects, potent therapeutic benefits, and you put it in your body, and in three months, it's pretty much gone, but you're not jeopardizing any of your own source. You're just ramping up this regeneration, and then it's done, right? And then, you can choose to do another one six months later or three months later, whatever you choose to keep up this level of regeneration of this useful upkeeping. So, that makes that possible when you can get it from a standardized source. 

[00:54:28]Luke Storey:  Right. And you were mentioning the other day that you had a theory and maybe there's evidence to back this up that when you're going through the surgical procedure of extraction, and then say, you do a stem cell IV, the systemic stem cell treatment, then because you just created a trauma, because now, you have a hole in your hip, in your glute, and a hole in your back fat, or whatever, then those stem cells are going to sequester to the injury, because what they do, using that-

[00:54:52]Joy Kong:  Oh, believe me. Those areas you just hurt are screaming. They're sending out this SOS signal saying, rescue me, help me heal. So, your body is geared to galvanate to heal that tissue tissue and the cells are exquisitely sensitive to those kind of signals. So, any kind of signal of alarm of, help me those molecules, those cytokines will actually be, they will talk to those stem cells, you just put back into your body. And the stem cells will swim right up to the area and start working right there. So, that's going to reduce the number of cells that you're trying to use to heal other places, right? 

[00:55:38]Luke Storey:  Right.

[00:55:39]Joy Kong:  Let's say, you have particular brain conditions, you really want the cells to get over there, or you have particular injuries, or you have osteoporosis, whatever condition you have, and you're hoping the cells may help, then they're going to be less cells to get to do what you needs to be done, but more will get to the areas to fix what you just did. 

[00:56:01]Luke Storey:  Got it. That makes sense. Okay. So, we kind of went almost backwards in describing what stem cells are and the different ways that you can get them. What do they do? I have like a shoulder issue, for example, I've had for a long time, and yet nothing seems to fix it. PEMF, I do all the things, lasers, whatever, it gets better for a little while, then it comes back. Internal organ issues, immune system, like what are some of the things that you use it for? What are the studies saying? What have you had the best results with? You mentioned, I think, TBIs that is one of the things that you specialize in, if I'm not mistaken.

[00:56:43]Joy Kong:  Yeah. So, we have to be very careful. I want to just, before I say anything that we're not making any claims about treating any conditions, because that will be inviting lots of trouble. And I never make claims. So, people may come to me suffering from different conditions. And what I tell them is how stem cells work and whether or not there has been research showing, whether or not stem cell therapy has been helpful for that condition. 

[00:57:08] If there's no such literature, then I'll analyze the pathophysiology of their condition and to see why they're having the disease in the first place, and discuss how stem cells work, how stem cells work can actually work on how their disease is formed. So then, when it comes to how stem cells work, one of the biggest, the most talked about benefit is antiinflammatory effects. So, it has a huge calming effect on inflammation. And when we get older, most of the chronic illnesses have inflammation as the underlying issue.

[00:57:46] So, when you don't calm the inflammation, then repair cannot really happen. As we get older, even if you're in perfect health, if they found out that the inflammatory markers gets more, and more, and more elevated. So, you're just having an elevated level of inflammation as you age, you're just getting more and more inflamed. So if you can have an antiinflammatory effect, then you're calming this underlying driving force of disease and degeneration.

[00:58:12] So, that's one thing. And the other thing is very much talked about, when we talk about stem cells, a lot of times, we're talking about mesenchymal stem cells, because that's really what we found to be kind of the engine of regeneration. I call them the masters of regeneration. So, what they do, so MSCs, mesenchymal stem cells, they have huge immunomodulatory effects. So, modern science are recognizing just how intelligent our immune system is. '

[00:58:41] It has this ability to monitor, not only just fight against infections, but they also get rid of cancer and they help the tissues heal. So, they have this tremendously complex, all these different cells, and they all have different functions. And when your immune system's out of whack, that's when you can have autoimmune conditions. Diabetes is one, right? So, MS, so many conditions have an autoimmune component that your body, this heightened inflammation is making your body, your immune system going on hyperdrive.

[00:59:18] So, it's attacking different things, it's attacking your own body's tissue. So, when you use stem cells, which has this modulating effect, basically, if your immune system is under active, is not active enough, then it's making it, heightening it up to be more effective. If it's overactive, then it calms it down, so it's not overly attacking everything there is, including environmental food. A lot of people have sensitivity to all these food, that's an immune dysregulation. 

[00:59:49] When you have all these food sensitivities, I'm sorry, your immune system is in trouble. So, immune modulation, that's another one. And then, it has all kinds of other really interesting properties. For example, it's antifibrotic. So, the mesenchymal stem cells actually can help break down scar tissue. And this is why I've had success when I'm giving stem cells for people with COPD, very tough condition.

[01:00:17] And the drastic, the rapid recovery of these people on oxygen, on steroids, being able to get off oxygen, go out and play in the band and sing, drastic improvements, because it has ability to break down scar tissue. And including liver cirrhosis, the cirrhosis, it means, really, the scarring, the fibrosis of the liver. So, how it's actually breaking that down. When you break the scar down, then you can have health tissue to replace it, right? So, the antifibrotic is really interesting. And then, it also has antimicrobial properties.

[01:00:54] So, it not only helps your immune system to fight infection, mesenchymal stem cells themselves can actually secrete antimicrobial peptides, so it directly fights against infection. And then, it has these angiogenic properties. So, helping forming new blood vessels. So, it's no good if you are growing new tissue, but there's no blood supply, right? So, it actually is helping your blood to form a new blood supply. So, it's angiogenic. So, if you had a heart attack, you have stroke, so the angiogenesis can help you form new blood vessels to actually supply the new tissue.

[01:01:32]Luke Storey:  That's very cool because hyperbaric oxygen therapy does that as well. Before and after my treatment with you, I mean, I do hyperbaric all the time. It's up in the little cottage back there. I can't wait. When I move, I'm going to have my own whole little healing center where I can have it in the house or somewhere close to the house. But I've been doing that, because I kind of put that together, and I didn't know that piece, but I thought, okay, so if I, for a period of time, have all these stem cells that Dr. Joy put in my body, then I know that I can build new blood vessels and capillaries by doing the hyperbaric. I thought, I want to push all those cells into every inch of tissue in my whole body. So, I've been doing like between one and three-hour hyperbaric sessions every day. I did one today for 90 minutes. And I just go in there and meditate. And it's like, it's just a great meditation.

[01:02:26]Joy Kong:  Great idea.

[01:02:27]Luke Storey:  Yeah. And it's actually really cool too, because when your brain gets really oxygenated in there from the pressure, I mean, you're breathing like 99% oxygen, but the pressure pushes it into your plasma. I'm sure you know this, but for those listening. So, no matter how much breathwork you do, you never get oxygen into your plasma. You just saturate your red blood cells. So, when that oxygen is going for about 30 minutes, it basically puts you in a really kind of catatonic meditation anyway even if you're not trying. It's very relaxing. You go parasympathetic. So, I love that that's what the stem cells also do. That's pretty cool. That's a good stack. That's potent stuff.

[01:03:06] Right. So, that's definitely another one. And another one is what's called paracrine effect. So, endocrine means something gets secreted into your blood, and goes everywhere, and then produce this overall effect. Paracrine just means in a small vicinity of where the cells are at. So, the stem cells are able to secrete growth factors, different signals just for the local environment. Help modulate, it's bringing other immune cells, saying, come here, we need this kind of cells to do this work, or talking with the local stem cells.

[01:03:40] So, instead of, this is why we don't need the stem cells to become your local tissue, because your local tissue have stem cells. There are tissue-specific stem cells, your heart have heart-specific, even your brain, there are specific, very young cells that could potentially become neurons. And so, we want to talk with the local stem cells. So, when you give them the right signal, then these cells will come to be and they will replace the tissue. You don't need the injected stem cells to become your local tissue. So, they talk to your local stem cells to actually become replaced.

[01:04:17] So, this is why I shouldn't be bummed that only 2% to 5% of those cells are going to remain, because they come in, flood your system, and do all of that communication.

[01:04:25]Joy Kong:  It's giving you massive and powerful information. That's why I've had people who have done all kinds of therapeutic modalities, and they say, the stem cell treatment is a game changer, because it gives you the final, the engine, all the information. That's the thing. It's massive, intelligent information that's put in your body. And that's what's the revolution about it, right? We can do different modalities. 

[01:04:46] Oxygen, okay, that's one factor. That's one thing. And you can do PEMF, okay, that's one thing. But what if you put intelligence? That is holistic, right? So, not that all the other things are not important. I think everything adds to the final solution, but you need the powerful engine to actually drive it. This is why your shoulder's not healing, because despite all these things you're doing right, it doesn't have enough signals to do the final repair.

[01:05:21]Luke Storey:  Right.

[01:05:22]Joy Kong:  Yeah. And then, continuing on with more of what stem cells can do. Another thing is antiapoptotic. So, on one hand, it has anticancer properties, right? It can kill cancer. It can kill things, not just cancer, but also what's called senescent cells. So, that means old and dysfunctional cells. So, old cells sitting in your body, as you get older, you get more and more of these senescent cells. So, not just being old and not doing their job, they are actually toxic to your body.

[01:05:51] They secrete different things that are bad for your body and bad for neighboring environment. So, you need to remove them to regenerate. But your body, as you get older, you're not going to be removing any more, your immune system is not sufficient, your stem cells are not as smart. And so, when you put these new signals, and then you can actually get these cells basically kill them off. Once you kill them off, then you give the new cells signals to replace what has been killed, then you have regeneration.

[01:06:22] So, I'll give you an example. They've done this experiment on this rat that has a condition very similar to the human condition called progeria, which is premature aging. So, I don't know if you've seen pictures of, could be a young boy, eight, nine years old that looked like a little old man, because their body, which they don't have the natural killer cells, they could not remove these old cells. So, they just sit there, then they start to degenerate, even though they're a young boy.

[01:06:53] So, they have an animal. I think it's rat or mice. I can't remember. So, let's just say rat. They have similar condition, that they are young mice, let's just say mice, they're young mice, but they look like old mice, right? Their fur is bad, their posture is bad, and they don't move very well, they're losing their marbles. And then, what they did is that they give them NK Cell infusion.

[01:07:17] So, these natural killer cells, all of a sudden, kills off all these old and degenerate cells. And guess what happens to the mice, they start to look young again. They start to walk and their fur comes back, their cognition comes back. It's because you're removing was not functioning. So, the stem cells can stimulate your immune system to amplify the natural killer cells, right? But it can also directly kill off these senescent cells, so you can regenerate. 

[01:07:47]Luke Storey:  With the senescent cells, and so they're kind of in this dormant stage just hanging around and gumming up the system, when those are killed off, do you just excrete them? I mean, do they become like metabolic waste basically? 

[01:08:00]Joy Kong:  Yeah, then they break down, just like anything, right? If you have an infection and you got pus forming, then your body tried to remove them. So, your body has a way of digesting them off and putting them back in the blood. And then, that's circulating to liver, and eventually, it gets out.

[01:08:17]Luke Storey:  Got it. Side note, have you heard of this stuff? I could have the name wrong. I have it in the other room. It's a brand name of a new product I got. I think the molecule is called spermidine, I think. I'll show it to you. It's really interesting. But what it does in those clinical studies that support this is also flushes out senescent cells. It's made from wheat germ extract.

[01:08:42]Joy Kong:  Interesting. 

[01:08:42]Luke Storey:  Yeah, it's really interesting. But they sent me a bunch of white papers and stuff, and I thought, do I really need another supplement? Like how many pills can I take? But that one, I'll show it to you. It's interesting.

[01:08:53]Joy Kong:  When you can simplify removal of dysfunctional cells, then you can promote this antiaging benefit, right? So, for me, doing stem cell infusions, not only my immune system's optimized, so my NK cells, natural killer cells are removing these older cells that are getting older from aging, but these transplanted new cells are also killing them off. So guess what, then my other stem cells are activated, then that's why my skin is better. That's why I tell people, I said, what you're looking at, it's only maybe just my face, right? 

[01:09:35] So, it looks younger. But what you don't realize is that my entire system, all my bones, my muscles, my organs, all the internal organs, everything has gotten younger from these IV stem cells I've done. So, I'm rejuvenating my entire body. I'm not against plastic surgery. And I think that's why I created cream know, to help with beautification. But what I tell people is that a lot of people try to do all these things on the surface of the skin, to texturize, make it better. 

[01:10:11] And I tell them, that's great that you're making your skin, you're doing resurfacing, laser treatment, that's all wonderful, but guess what, you're not nourishing all the ligaments, the muscles, the fat underneath. And over time, those would degrade, right? And that's why people droop. You can have the perfect smooth skin, but drooping. How great is that? So then, you have to do plastic surgery, which has a risk of you not looking very good, not very natural.

[01:10:42] So, if you have the option to keep your natural beauty, why not do it? Why only focus on the surface? That's only going to last you so long, only going to give you so much mileage. But I want to go back to the mechanisms of how stem cells work, because there are still a couple more. So, another thing that the stem cells can do is antiapoptotic. So, I was telling you that it induces apoptosis for cancer, right? But it's also antiapoptotic in certain circumstances. 

[01:11:17] For example, radiation injury, or chemical burn, or stroke, you have ischemia where the blood shut off, and then one particular area died, the problem with stroke is that not just the area that dies, the area that dies sends out all these signals, sends out all this information, leak out toxic material to the environment so that started killing off the bordering cells. So, cells that didn't have to die will end up dying. Guess what these stem cells can do, it can prevent those signals from actually activating these cells to go on programmed cell death. So, you're preserving healthy tissue.

[01:11:58]Luke Storey:  That's wild. 

[01:11:59]Joy Kong:  Right?

[01:12:00]Luke Storey:  That is so fascinating. They do so much.

[01:12:02]Joy Kong:  Yeah. And then, another thing stem cells do, which is really cool, it's completely different, it is called mitochondrial transfer, which I love, because we all know mitochondria is really crucial for health, right? It's the engine of our cells and of our entire vitality. And as we get older, our mitochondria also decline, decline, decline. So, people do take all kinds of supplements, do different things to revitalize them.

[01:12:28] But when you give these fresh new stem cells, the stem cells actually give your body mitochondria. So, they establish this microtubule bridge. They've caught it on electromicroscopy, so between the new cells, and then you're old cells, these mitochondria actually walk across the bridge to get into the new cell, your own cells. So, giving you a fresh supply of mitochondria.

[01:12:53]Luke Storey:  What? Are you serious?

[01:12:54]Joy Kong:  Yes, I am serious.

[01:12:56]Luke Storey:  So, the stem cells, of course, because those cells have their own mitochondria even when they're in the umbilical.

[01:13:01]Joy Kong:  They're new and fresh, yeah.

[01:13:02]Luke Storey:  Wow. That is so badass. You're getting a mitochondrial upgrade. Because I got to say, it's been, what, three days since I came to see you, I think.

[01:13:11]Joy Kong:  Yes.

[01:13:11]Luke Storey:  I feel freaking amazing, honestly. And I mean, I do so many things to support my body and my health, and it's my job or part of my job to explore these things, and share them with people, and be kind of a human guinea pig. But sometimes, they do so many things, it's difficult to know what's working. I just go, God, I feel amazing, in so many different metrics, sleep, sex, drive, energy, physical strength, if I do some kind of fitness or something, which is rare.

[01:13:40] I mean, I worked out today, but I don't work out, work out, like a gym rat kind of guy would work out. So, there are all these different ways that I'll sort of gauge, okay, how am I feeling? How am I doing? And how much energy do I have, basically? And it seems to me that the things that really moved the needle are the things that help the mitochondria. So, I think that's really interesting, because two things I've noticed for sure is the pain in my body has gone down exponentially in the past couple of days. 

[01:14:07] And I've also been seeing this Dr. Dean Howell, who I think his episode will come out after yours, we're going to record out in Austin. He does this neurocranial restructuring, really fascinating stuff. He puts these balloons up your nostrils, and inflates them, and they expand all the bones in your skull, basically. It's really, really interesting. And that tells your nervous system to realign your bones and all the stuff. So, I've been working with him and he's really helping my hip. I mean, my hip mobility has gone up.

[01:14:38] But it's not just that, I really sense there's a reduction in inflammation, because I can just tell, like when the sore spots in my old-ass 50-year-old body are sore, I know what inflammation feels like, and that's not there. And then, he's helping me with the range and the structural stuff. So, I think that's a really great combination. We were talking about this the other day, right? You can put stem cells in people's joints all day long, but if they're not fixing their alignment, the way that they move, the functionality of their joint mobility, et cetera, you can only get so far.

[01:15:08]Joy Kong:  Yeah, absolutely. 

[01:15:09]Luke Storey:  Yeah. So, I'm having the experience now of like the stem cell regeneration and also really working with the functionality of the mechanics of the body. I think that that combo, I'm feeling great. 

[01:15:21]Joy Kong:  We've got to integrate different approaches. Wonderful. This is why I founded the American Academy of Integrated Cell Therapy, because I don't believe that cell therapy, once and for all is fix everything, no, that would be very naive. So, you've got to integrate other modalities. Everything works as a symphony together. So, yeah, the mechanical issue, especially for musculoskeletal issues, is really crucial. But I think as far as the pain that you're noticing that's decreased, that's definitely part of the antiinflammatory effect. Very fast, I have patients who, actually, as soon as they got up to my table, they say, oh, my pain is 50% gone. It could happen that fast.

[01:16:05]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[01:16:05]Joy Kong:  Yeah. And then, definitely a lot know of people within one day, just drastic, drastic reduction in pain. So, I talk about the stages of healing with stem cell therapy. The first stage is this rapid antiinflammatory effect, stopping the tissue damage, stop the toxicity right now, right? That the inflammation is the toxic environment, stopping the toxic environment now so that can calm the inflammation, and then remove debris, bad cells, get them out of there.

[01:16:38] So, that's the first stage. And that could happen fairly quick. The second stage is the tissue rebuilding. So, that's when you talk with the local stem cells, they started dividing and making new tissue, the new cells. They all work together to create a new environment, new tissue growth. That takes more time, right? Weeks or even more. And then, the last stage is the genetic kind of enhancement level. 

[01:17:05] I talk about genetic enhancement, really is about helping the DNA to be more healthy because the microRNA that's secreted by the stem cells through exosomes, the microRNA actually has the ability to go across the cell nucleus and actually repair the DNA in a certain sense by changing the methylation patterns. So, in that sense, it can rejuvenate the DNA, so you can repair and make the DNA healthier. 

[01:17:35] And that effect is going to be much more long-term, right? It could be months or even you can see it, in fact, a year down the line. So, what I want you to do is that you should take a picture, somehow take a picture that I want you to take another one, you should do stem cells at least every six months, if not three, right? And then, in three years, take another picture and look at the difference in yourself.

[01:18:03]Luke Storey:  Have you noticed this yourself?

[01:18:05]Joy Kong:  Yes, a huge difference.

[01:18:07]Luke Storey:  So, how long have you been doing this every three months? 

[01:18:09]Joy Kong:  Four-and-a-half years.

[01:18:10]Luke Storey:  Really?

[01:18:11]Joy Kong:  Yeah. I can show you the picture when I was 43, and now, I'm five months away from being 50. When people say, oh, of course you don't age much, you're Asian, I was like, that is not true, because let me show you my picture, because I was well on my aging path even though I didn't know it at the time. See, when you look at yourself every day, we don't really see, oh, I age, you don't see it. Usually, what happens is people don't notice changes, they don't. And then, one day, all of a sudden, the mirror, like, oh boy, I have aged. You had been aging every day.

[01:18:47]Luke Storey:  Well, you notice it when you see someone else, right? Like I'll see someone, I don't know, I went to high school with or something and they'll be my age, 50, and I'm like, holy shit, this dude looks old as hell. And I think, oh my God, what do I look like?

[01:18:59]Joy Kong:  Yeah. So, what happened was that when I was 43, I thought I was aging great, and I was aging pretty good, but doesn't mean that I wasn't, because you can see from my face, we can't see anything from my body, right? You don't see the internal organs, but you definitely can see in the face that you know that I had more lines coming up. My skin, there are more discolorations. And then, there's this general kind of like slight sagging, like very, very subtle, but it's there. It's like slight just reduction of volume. And now, if you look at the picture, I'll send you my collage, which you can see, I look at least 15 years younger.

[01:19:43]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[01:19:45]Joy Kong:  I mean, it's just a reversal. All the lines are gone. I mean, I don't wear any foundation. Just what you see, that's my skin.

[01:19:53]Luke Storey:  This skin does look great. No joke. Yeah, it really does.

[01:19:56]Joy Kong:  Yeah, because it comes from the inside. Yes, I do use Chara Omni as the cream, which keep my skin really well-hydrated and helps regenerate, but it's really, the health comes from the inside. 

[01:20:09]Luke Storey:  Well, I think that's really interesting. I, for some reason, never thought about that. But as we see aging, we just see the outside, wrinkles, gray hair, thinning hair, et cetera. But I never think when I look at myself and see myself aging or someone else like, oh, man, I bet their liver's in bad shape or their spleen is probably decrepit. You don't think about the inside, right? So, all of our organs are reflecting that breakdown and lack of vitality.

[01:20:36]Joy Kong:  That's right.

[01:20:36]Luke Storey:  That's interesting.

[01:20:36]Joy Kong:  You don't see the wrinkling and graying of your internal organs.

[01:20:40]Luke Storey:  Yeah, that's very cool. Because I want to make sure in our-. 

[01:20:45]Joy Kong:  I think you mentioned another thing about differences between what we do here and what people do overseas, so I just want to answer-

[01:20:51]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do that, and then I want to get into the ketamine stuff before we close it up.

[01:20:55]Joy Kong:  Okay. I just want to answer that question. So, what happens with what people can do overseas that we cannot do in the US, it's not that we cannot do it in the US, it's that if you want to do it in the US. If you want to grow the cells to a big number, and then give it to people, it has to be under this clinical study, it is called IND, investigational new drug. And that's a very involved process. You have to go through animal testing. You have to do a lot of things. There are a lot of basically things that you have to overcome in order to obtain that approval of that clinical study. 

[01:21:34] So, just because you want to do it doesn't mean that it can happen. So, that effectively is putting a stop to a lot of people who want to do this, right? Even if you grow your own cells, the FDA said no. If you have put the cells into incubator and even if it's from your own body, grow them into a large number, there could be changes that happen to those cells, which is true, or if you use enzyme, because they can get your fat, and they will try to digest the connective tissue that's encasing or blocking the stem cells, if you don't use collagenase that breaks down collagen, those cells are kind of trapped, so you don't get as many cells. 

[01:22:15] So, collagenase is to break down the collagen, all of a sudden, you're freeing up all these cells. You can get 10 times as many cells from the same tissue. But the problem is the FDA says, well, if you use collagenase, that means that there's a potential that you're altering the cells, which is true, because not only do they digest the connective tissue, but they can also digest surface receptors of your cells. So, they are changing your cells in a certain way.

[01:22:40] So, I do agree with the FDA that you need more investigation. You're changing the cells. So, what we use from the birth tissue is completely unaltered, right? For whatever that's from, the placenta, from the umbilical cord, you carefully, mechanically dissect the cells out. You don't use any chemicals, any enzymes, and you don't grow them in any way. You just try cryopreserve them, and then wait until you need them, and then you put in the body. So, that's what's called minimal manipulation.

[01:23:08] So, as long as you're doing that right now in the US, then you're allowed to provide the cells for homologous use. So, whatever the cells are doing in the body before, it has to be doing something that's very similar. And when you start to grow cells in massive numbers, then you have to go through the clinical trial. That's why all these companies decide to go overseas, where they don't have the same kind of restrictions. And so, there are countries that have a lot, looser rules.

[01:23:40] So, what they do is that they will take the cells, whatever source it is, could be from fat, from bone marrow, from umbilical cord, and then they separate the cells out, and they put them in an incubator, and grow the cells to huge numbers. So, they can grow them to really vast numbers. What they do is that from a small number of cells, they can grow all the cells, and then they can divide them up and give to patients. So, it's very cost-saving method, right? 

[01:24:05] So, when I give a small number of cells, what happens is that when it's in the body, will grow to massive numbers. So, that's the original amount of cells. But when you put them in a culture and you put them in incubator, they do grow to this massive numbers, but what happens is that when you try to grow cells artificially like that, the way the stem cells divide, unless it's in perfect, perfect conditions, they often divide, there's been research done, often divide as one daughter cell. 

[01:24:37] One daughter cell, which means the cell is further differentiated and one stem cell. So, there's one identical stem cell, and then one daughter cell. The daughter cell has other things that's going on that's different from the original cell. So, they've gained new function. So then, if every time, let's say you have 10 cells, and each time, the cells divide, they have one daughter cell and one original cell, right? And then, you divide again, that original cell can only make one of itself, and then you have one daughter cell. 

[01:25:08] And the daughter cells also divide, right? By the end, you have way more daughter cells than the original stem cells. So, like a small number of stem cells surrounded by these daughter cells, and then they divide those up and give it to people. So, what you're receiving, yes, the daughter cells may still be premature, they're still immature cells, but they're more differentiated, which means that they express more surface receptors and there's more potential to cause adverse reaction, because the more surface receptors they have, the more they can express individuality.

[01:25:42] That means, if it's John's cells put into Susan, then John's cells start to become more of John with John characters. And Susan's body may not recognize and may not like it. So then, you run the risk of that. This is one reason that there's more side effects that's seen when you do it that way, and that a lot of times, they have to divide the treatment into several portions within the same—some places do it within a week and they would give three infusions.

[01:26:12] But sometimes, and I've heard from patients who have come back from these clinics, that by the second infusion and third infusion, they're getting more and more reaction. Guess what, your body just got primed with these foreign expressions, right? So now, you get the second infusion, your body's recognizing, oh, I know, this is not me, I've already been mobilized, and now, I can attack. So, your body's having more of this rejection.

[01:26:43] So, this is why I'm not a big fan of it, unless you can control the condition perfectly, you can show that these cells are absolutely still original mesenchymal stem cells. But there's only so many generations you can do without the cell degrading. So, after about four or five generations, the capabilities and their original vibrancy would decline. So, it's not like you can just grow the cells on trees that just keep doing whatever. No, after a few generations, they will start to decline in the quality of their progenies.

[01:27:15]Luke Storey:  And you were saying the other day that more is not necessarily better and that would be the reason then, right? Because you're not getting those real, original, undifferentiated stem cells. So, you might think, well, I could go get a million stem cells in one IV instead of 100,000 or whatever, but how many-

[01:27:33]Joy Kong:  But they don't realize that 100,000 can grow into a billion inside a body when it's the perfect incubator. There's no better incubator than a human body, the human environment for a human cell.

[01:27:46]Luke Storey:  Got it. Alright. Cool. Alright. Good. I'm glad we covered that. Okay. So, with the remaining time we have here, which is not that much, because I have a moving happening here. And anyone that listens to this show knows that I could talk all day, but I would be remiss to not cover one of the other modalities that you do in your clinic. The clinic's called THEA, right? 

[01:28:06]Joy Kong:  Right. T-H-E-A.

[01:28:09]Luke Storey:  In Chatsworth, is that where we were?

[01:28:09]Joy Kong:  Yes.

[01:28:09]Luke Storey:  Yeah, the land of horses in the San Fernando, horses and a lot of boulders, a lot of beautiful rock formations.

[01:28:15]Joy Kong:  Yeah, a lot of old Western movies are filmed in Chatsworth.

[01:28:18]Luke Storey:  Yeah, right. And in the '80s and '90s, I'm not sure anymore, a lot of pornographic films as well.

[01:28:24]Joy Kong:  That's true. That's supposed to be the porn capital of the world.

[01:28:27]Luke Storey:  I think it is, yeah. Not your office, though. It's all on the up and up. But when you were giving me the tour, you were really excited about the things you're doing with ketamine therapy. And I've used ketamine for meditation and things like that. I've not yet done a therapist-led session, although I probably will with Dr. David Rabin, a guy who's been on the show and specializes in that therapist-assisted ketamine therapy, I think it's called.

[01:28:54] But anyway, you showed me around, and you're proud, you're doing some remodeling and stuff. And then, you had like your ketamine rooms. And one of them had an inversion table, and then one of them had like a PEMF mat, and then a red light device that hangs over you while you're on the mat. And then, there was another room with another red light dome that goes on your head. And so, you're doing some pretty cool stuff. Now, I'm a believer in ketamine therapy.

[01:29:18] I mean, I have a very close friend, went to a place in West LA called Field Trip, and did a series of, I think, six or seven therapist-led sessions, totally cured of addiction, quit smoking, depression gone. Just amazing success story. And I've not done it that intentionally. I just have meditated with it and things like that. But he really had some profound changes. And so, I think he's just sitting in a chair talking to a therapist with an IV or maybe an intramuscular shot of this ketamine, but you're doing some really crazy stuff out there.

[01:29:52] And then, you indicated you're not just doing it with patients that you see, but that you've also done a lot of journeys yourself and have indicated that it really has opened you up spiritually. And so, I'm curious kind of how you got into it, and then maybe what ketamine does to the brain? And what are some of those unique stacking of different modalities that you're using with it?

[01:30:13]Joy Kong:  I think ketamine, as an incredible therapeutic modality, it's very unique, because it's in the dissociative category of medications and it's been used as an anesthetic for decades, I think for, yeah, 70 years almost. So, it's one of the safest anesthetic agents and it's on the WHO's list of essential medication. So, it's a really crucial medication. And what it does is that it works on the level consciousness, dissociative. So, it works on your consciousness.

[01:30:51] And it's the first—well, yeah, it's the first, basically, you can call it psychedelic or hallucinogenic, or whatever you want to call it. But with that kind of property, the first medication that's allowed for use, not for that particular purpose, but for the treatment of depression, for treatment of resistant depression. So, in that sense, it's groundbreaking, because it works on so many different levels. I think a lot of doctors, even doctors who are doing ketamine therapy, they get so caught up with a traditional chemistry.

[01:31:38] Like one thing I want to talk about is that I think medicine needs to move beyond chemistry and into physics. So, we're no longer in the billiard ball, this molecule ran into that molecule, and it does this, the receptors, and they lock in key. That is limiting. That's very limiting, because you're not talking about, what about the other level? How about we utilize knowledge in quantum physics? So, we've got to stop just being pure chemists.

[01:32:07] We've got learn to become physicists if you want to be truly effective and you want to go to the next level of healing. So, ketamine has the ability. So, what most doctors are not talking about how ketamine can help a person is it's not talking about anything more than just receptors, different receptors. Yes, it works on receptor levels. It's true. An MDA receptor, and this, and that, gets very complex, but also changes brainwaves. So, one of the really powerful brainwaves that is hard to get to is the gamma wave.

[01:32:42] So, we have four level of other brain waves, but the gamma waves associated with this incredible, sustained focus and expanded consciousness. And they've compared the wave of the gamma wave presentation with people that have met long-term meditators, meditated at least 10,000 hours in their lives, it's very similar, looks very similar. So, there's a level of consciousness expansion that can help things from a completely different level. So, we all know how good meditation is, and meditation can generate that high-level brainwave, and ketamine can do that, too. And that's not talked about.

[01:33:25]Luke Storey:  I didn't know that. That's crazy.

[01:33:25]Joy Kong:  That's not even possible by almost all the ketamine doctors that I've met. It's unfortunate.

[01:33:32]Luke Storey:  You know what I really want? My own QEEG machine, because I'm always so curious when I explore these different medicines and different types of meditation, I'm always so curious what brainwave state. I mean, the only thing I can track, as I don't have my aura ring with me, but today, I did a meditation in my oxygen chamber like an-hour-and-a-half Joe Dispenza one, and I had a pretty deep state, and I tracked my HRV, and it went up to like 57 or something, which is maybe 10 points above my nighttime baseline.

[01:34:01] I thought, oh, that's pretty good, because it felt pretty deep. And so, that was interesting. But I'd really be curious to see, as they do in the Dispenza retreats, he's got a whole group of scientists in the back, and everyone's hooked up to EEGs, and they can tell when someone hits gamma, and they'll hit high gamma, like 400 standard deviations outside of normal, like insane supernatural experiences. And these people are not doing any kind of psychedelics or anything.

[01:34:27] It's just, they use the breathing techniques and the things that he's refined over the years. But I'm just someone that really loves to quantify. And I've had different experiences, like I was telling the other day with 5-MeO-DMT, which has been absolutely, for me, the most transformative experiences of my life, hands down, especially recently. And one of the things that it does, too, is produces high gamma very reliably. But I had no idea that ketamine did that. That's so interesting.

[01:34:55]Joy Kong:  Yes, it's fascinating. 

[01:34:56]Luke Storey:  And subjectively thinking about it, when you go into a really deep space in ketamine, where you lose the sensation of the body, and the dissociative effect kicks in, and then you go into that really still place of the void or that quantum field, that makes perfect sense, because it's actually very similar to, like you said, different types of meditation, all the different tools to take us there. So, that is badass. So, anyway, totally interesting. And for those listening, let's make it clear, we're not talking about like going to a rave, and going into a K hole, and like partying, and it's a different deal.

[01:35:30]Joy Kong:  No. Ketamine, I do believe it needs to be done using safe source, right? Because I heard so many people who have done ketamine that they didn't have a good experience. How did you do it? And they're like, well, I ingested it or I snorted it. So, they were using all these things that really were not the pure form and the setting, and they don't know how to dose it. People do not have a good experience. If you use really pure form and you're putting it directly into the contact with your blood flow, right? 

[01:36:07] Either intramuscular or even people do the intranasal. I guess you could because it goes directly into the blood. I'm not a big fan. I don't think that will get you the same kind of effect as IV ketamine or even intramuscular. I think that getting directly into the bloodstream in a sustained experience is extremely therapeutic, because what we have with ketamine is something that we have not had before, which is helping the rewiring of the brain.

[01:36:39] So, it changes your neural network. Yeah, it does enhance the secretion of brain-derived neurotrophic factors, so it can help enhance the synapse formation, so your brain actually can establish a different kind of network or repaired old dysfunctional ones, but that the effect can be so rapid, because a person could be suicidal, and within a session, it's not suicidal. I mean, if you take medications, it would take weeks to work. And this can take an hour or even less to work. 

[01:37:15] And that kind of relieve of suffering, I think, is so profound and so beautiful, because I can't think of anything that's more painful than psychological suffering, than not being able to feel joy, but only feel despair. So, if we can help get the person out of it, and free them, and then allow rebuilding, right? And I do believe ketamine and stem cells can help each other, right? The brain, one can help you rewire the faulty network, the other one can help the tissue to be less inflammatory and can help with the growth of the new network.

[01:38:00]Luke Storey:  Wow. So cool. In your subjective experience, being a doctor on yourself with the ketamine, what would have been some of the net benefits in terms of your consciousness and your peace of mind or quality of life?

[01:38:14]Joy Kong:  Well, one of the big thing is that it pretty much shattered my ego. So, I had a pretty healthy ego growing up, like a little too robust. And it got more and more subdued as I became more and more mature. I started to really put myself in other people's shoes, and the empathy, and be more loving, more open, but the sense of, I have to do this, I'm going to accomplish, I, this I, I, I, once you start to understand more of who you really are, then that I doesn't matter very much, because you can never see things clearly if you are at this level. 

[01:39:02] You can only see things more clearly when you're standing above it. I mean, the picture cannot form clearly when you are right in it. So, you have to get above it, and then you can see the picture. So, that gave me a perspective, understanding of what I really am. And this is the first time I feel I have a chance at true happiness and sustained happiness. I'm not completely there, but I'm working my way toward it. I remember about a year ago, I was saying to a good friend of mine, I said, I just want to be happy all the time. 

[01:39:35] I want to be ecstatic all the time. I just want to be so filled with joy the moment I wake up until the moment I go to bed. I just want to be happy. And I was like, but it's not like that. I'm not happy, happy all the time. And she said, well, nobody can be like that, can be happy all the time. I was like, I don't know, I don't know. I really want that. That's what I want. And this, I feel this the first time, I'm having a chance at it, that I could have a chance to be actually ecstatic at all times.

[01:40:05] And that's what happened with people who are more enlightened, that they can live in that state of bliss all the time, right? And that's what I want. And I feel by expanding your consciousness, by looking at things from a certain height, then you're able to understand why you're here, and what's out there, how that's related. And then, if you understand your purpose, and then you understand the source of certain greatness, then you may be able to enjoy something that there's a sense of joy and bliss that you just cannot either grab or sustain.

[01:40:45]Luke Storey:  Yeah, that sense of expanded awareness and objectivity, where you're in the ketamine journeys, and meditation, and whatever experience brings you there, what I find is I get better at being in that observer witness perspective during the experience, but with practice, you can actually be sitting here having a conversation and still be the witness observing the personality Luke and the personality Joy having this interaction, right? That's when it gets really fun, because then the mic breaks, we knock the tea over, the dog farts, I dropped my notes, the camera breaks, whatever, right?

[01:41:22] Like life happens in this realm, and it's kind of like, haha, I don't know, I find that the more that I enter into these realms, the more I'm able to kind of wear the world like a loose garment and just kind of sluff off anything that's not in my highest good in terms of the way that I feel and the way that I think. It really is the answer in whatever route you go. And I think things like ketamine, as you describe. And when you look at the function it has on the brain, I mean, how long would you have to meditate to get into high gamma? You know what I mean? Like you can go get a shot in your butt and going to gamma, like I'll take it. 

[01:41:57]Joy Kong:  Yeah, I know. I know. I've tried to meditate since I was 18 years old, and I tried, and tried, and tried. I tried. It was very frustrating. I said, how come I can't get there? Because I've read books, people are talking about these incredible experiences, these visions, and you won't believe it. And I was like, I don't see it. I don't see it, just like, where is it? And now, I know exactly what they were talking about, this is incredible. 

[01:42:22] I mean, people who, throughout history, have had these profound experiences, and I didn't believe them, because I couldn't experience them. And now, I know, oh, my God, it's there. And the cool thing is that, now, what's really fun is that, now, I know who I am, I'm having this separation between me, my essence, like this incredible, incredible thing. And Joy, Joy is right now, is this time, but the me is not Joy. So, I do have to integrate right now, and it's hard not to integrate, because this world is so energy-dense. 

[01:42:59] It just sucks you in. So, it's hard not to have it integrated. But I think for too many people, it's so integrated, so locked in, that there's no separation. They don't even know their essence. All they know is me, Joe, or whatever, Jack, so they can't sense the true essence anymore, because they're locked in. And that's what I'm hoping by the evolution of us as a species that we can start to really be able to unlock and feel who we really are. 

[01:43:40]Luke Storey:  What are the three or four different modalities that you stack in the clinic? There is one that I didn't see. You mentioned, you're putting people under ketamine, and then using vibration therapy to work through physical pain, and physical traumas, and stuff. Explain some of the different things you're doing there. Like the inversion table on ketamine sounds insane to me. Like you put ketamine in your bloodstream, then flood your brain with the ketamine that's in your bloodstream hanging upside down. That, even to me, and I'm pretty hardcore, was like, I was like, oh, shit, she's not playing. That's hardcore.

[01:44:13]Joy Kong:  Well, the reason that came about was because I found out from brain imaging that I have traumatic brain injury, since I was probably a teenager. I don't even know. Maybe I was dropped as a baby. So, I was determined to heal my brain, which I did to a great extent. Within two months, I did a repeat imaging that showed drastic improvement, many areas of lesions that actually disappeared. And a lot of them have significant improvement.

[01:44:42] So, I mean, I made drastic changes within two months when most people do not get a repeat brain scan less than six months later, because there's no modality that can get people improvement. It makes no sense to do a repeat scan in two months. So, I was determined to heal my brain. And because I know the capacity of the ketamine to rewire the brain and for neurogenesis, so to actually regenerate the neural system. And if I can enhance blood flow and I can use energy therapy, because there's certain energy, like red light therapy, that's another thing I incorporate that can help with blood flow and it can promote healing.

[01:45:18] And then, with the neurogenesis, with the ketamine rewiring, then I can really just—things can come together. So, the inversion table, of course, inversion not only is great for your musculoskeletal system, but it's great for brain health and tremendous for brain health. This is poorly perfuse and we're always erect like this. So, when you invert, and throughout history, people have done that, a lot of old monks, when they do headstands, it's great for their brain and for their mental acuity. So, that really kind of came about because I was determined to heal my brain fast and it worked.

[01:45:57]Luke Storey:  Me, too. That's so cool. So, do you ever do the red light helmet while hanging upside down?

[01:46:03]Joy Kong:  I think that's too complex. Yeah, I don't. No.

[01:46:06]Luke Storey:  You make it complex, and then my brain is like, how could I make it even more hardcore? And then, the other one you had in there was this really nice PEMF mat.

[01:46:15]Joy Kong:  Yeah, it's light therapy, so I got near infrared light, I got PEMF, and there's also some other—there's gemstones, and then I have a face thing that help with kind of facial rejuvenation, and then the full body light rejuvenation. So, you've got all the frequencies, the therapeutic light frequencies that can help you rejuvenate. So, I have done it myself. It's pretty incredible.

[01:46:46]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I'm definitely going to get in there and try all that stuff next time I come back to LA. And then, what about the working with the body, with the vibration therapy, and all that, and ketamine?

[01:47:00]Joy Kong:  So, when you are, just like I'm not comfortable—for example, I've had knots in my back, because I'm a little bit high strung, and it can be tense at times. So, my muscles were tensing up. So, between my shoulder blades, I have these massive knots, because I've worked with various massage therapists, and they're like, well, this is some of the biggest ones I've seen. And so, it takes a lot. And if you ever worked on knots, it takes a lot of repeated work and still is there. 

[01:47:32] And they're very difficult to get rid of, your muscles, because it's a whole new memory between your muscle and the nervous system, and it is clamped down besides that scar tissue. So, what happens when you're on ketamine is that your muscles will relax the point that you cannot do it just when you're fully conscious, you're not there. So then, you have a chance of going deeper and breaking down the scar tissue or the tight knots, you're breaking them down painlessly.

[01:48:03] And then, because of the rewiring of the neural network, the neurons and the muscle, the nerve endings and the muscles, it could re-establish new communication. So, within a few weeks, the big knots between my shoulder blades was obliterated. They're gone. Yeah, it was pretty incredible, because it used to be, anyone, if they'd give me a massage and touch between my shoulder blades, I'd be like, yes, stay right there. Yeah, I call them the center of my universe. Just work on those spots.

[01:48:31] And then, after I did the body work on me with ketamine, and then if someone touch between my shoulder blades, it feels like they're touching like anywhere else on my back. It's no different. I was like, well, that's okay, just touching just like anywhere else. So, also, when, let's say, you have shoulder injury and you may have certain areas that are clamped down or scarred up and are not really releasing, the ketamine will allow you to relax to such extent, where whoever that's working on you can get much deeper into your tissue. And that's one of the chiropractors that I've been working with and he was amazed. He said, I can get so much deeper into someone's-

[01:49:15]Luke Storey:  That's very cool.

[01:49:17]Joy Kong:  Yeah.

[01:49:17]Luke Storey:  Wow. I like that. I'm going to try that, actually. I think when I move here, I'm going to set up a little healing center, and have a massage table, and stuff, and that'll be one of the first orders of business, is to get some work done in ketamine.

[01:49:27]Joy Kong:  Yes, you will be amazed.

[01:49:27]Luke Storey:  Because I was thinking about, sometimes, I look at their limited range of motion I have in certain joints, and then have been told that when you're under full anesthesia, you're completely flexible, because your nervous system isn't holding on, trying to protect itself in those ways that limit your range of motion, because you got hurt before, you overextended, whatever. So, I've always had that in mind. Like, huh, there's got to be a way to have your body manipulated when you're in that state. But obviously, I can't go under anesthesia unsupervised. And what, am I going to go to the hospital with the masseuse and go put me under? It's not practical, but this is a way perhaps to hack that.

[01:50:04]Joy Kong:  Yeah, we monitor your vital signs. First of all, ketamine is extraordinarily safe. It's been used, I mean, for pediatrics, pediatric use in animals, the emergency settings. They've done a study where they did an emergency setting, because when the paramedics go pick somebody up that's really, really agitated, they can give them a intramuscular ketamine and they calm down right away. And one time, they accidentally gave the person 16 times the upper limit and the person was still fine. And it was funny, it was just reported in the literature. But it's extraordinarily safe.

[01:50:39]Luke Storey:  Right. To clarify, when practiced with a licensed whatever.

[01:50:44]Joy Kong:  Oh, yeah. Yeah, please do not go out there and just sit, yeah.

[01:50:49]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Okay.

[01:50:51]Joy Kong:  And also, when it's done in a clinically supervised setting, it's not addictive. So, when people worry, oh, what if this is addictive? No, it's not addictive. So, if you see literature, show me evidence. That is more of a hype. It's not real.

[01:51:07]Luke Storey:  It's funny you mention that. Because I was talking about ketamine on one of my podcast and someone sent me a message on Instagram, and said, this is very irresponsible of you. I was addicted to ketamine, and now, you're promoting it or something like that. And I thought, oh, that's weird, I guess one can get addicted to anything. They say weed's not addictive and I was totally addicted to weed when I was a kid.

[01:51:27]Joy Kong:  There's no physical dependence. So, you don't get this withdrawal symptoms and craving. You don't get that. You may be psychologically dependent on it, because you feel, oh, I think I would do better, I need to relax, so psychologically, you want to do it, but not because physically that there's withdrawal symptoms.

[01:51:44]Luke Storey:  Not like alcohol, cocaine, opiates, et cetera. 

[01:51:47]Joy Kong:  No.

[01:51:47]Luke Storey:  Okay. Cool. Good to know. Alright. Well, that's it, man. This is my last official interview in the City of Los Angeles. So, thank you.

[01:51:56]Joy Kong:  The conclusion of a wonderful, wonderful journey.

[01:51:59]Luke Storey:  It's been a great 32 years, and a couple more days, I'll be out of here. By the time this comes out, I'll already have moved. 

[01:52:05]Joy Kong:  Now, we'll have to do with Zoom.

[01:52:08]Luke Storey:  Well, no, I'll come back. When I say my last Los Angeles interview, I'm going to come back, and record, and we can do a follow-up, but my last one here in the studio. I already took the wall down. I had this like reclaimed wood wall, and I'm like, wow, the video looks different. It's so white in here. So, thank you for thank you for coming. And there is one last question I have for you, and that is, who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you could share with us?

[01:52:34]Joy Kong:  Oh, jeez, three teachers. I can't think of any one—I mean, there's some philosophers. I think I definitely resonate with Lao Tzu, the Daoist, the guru that started Daoism, talking about being in tune with nature, and not fighting the forest, but use the flow of nature, and he has a way of stepping outside of the just the buzzles of life, and take a look beyond. I love that feeling of serenity. And the same thing with Buddha. I think it's very enlightening when he so willingly—

[01:53:30] Well, through his meditation that he realized he is accepting suffering his life, that life is composed of suffering that just accept it, but it's all empty. He's talking about this void, right? It's all a void. I think the void is that this particular realm, what we're dealing with, really, in the end, it's a play to help us grow, help our essence to grow. So, no matter how much suffering you see, no matter how heartbreaking it is, just know it's temporary. This is theater for us to grow. 

[01:54:14] And then, recently, I was looking at Confucius. So funny. So, Confucianism, Daoism, and Buddhism are the three religions or three philosophies that has dominated the Chinese society. That's really, if you ask what's the Chinese, like what do they believe in? The Chinese religion or philosophy is really composed of, is an integral part of these three. So, Confucianism, which I'm actually a descendant of Confucius, I'm a 73rd generation, so I have an affinity for it, although I did not like him for a long time, because he talked about how women is subordinate to men. I really hated that. I was just really upset with him.

[01:54:54]Luke Storey:  Patriarchal spiritual teacher, yeah.

[01:54:55]Joy Kong:  Yeah. But he's a man of great compassion, because he grew up during the time of 2,500 years ago, the tremendous chaos, wars, all these little countries and regions. I mean, this is before China was united into one country. They're all fighting each other, people are dying, or just misery, right? People are cheating on each other. So, he decided, there must be a way of living harmoniously together. And he found a way, is to resort to our higher self.

[01:55:27] He talks about that as a superior man, that we can be the superior man, instead of just allowing ourselves to be to run amuck with our basic needs, and our greed, and animalistic instinct that we resort to the higher self. And that is beautiful. And that form, part of the Chinese philosophy of how the country, how people are treating each other, and how the country is run. The rulers have to be benevolent. It's about resorting to our higher self. So, through rituals, that they're all kind of calling on the higher self, how to be a better man, be the superior man. And I think that took tremendous compassion when nobody wanted to listen to you.

[01:56:14] He traveled for 13 years. So, all these countries trying to persuade rulers to adopt his philosophy, and pretty much, no one did. He thought he failed when he died, but it turned out that he became revered. And for the next almost 2,500 years, that became the dominant philosophy and he became the most revered, a person. Like his palace, the Confucius Palace, is the biggest palace outside of Forbidden City. So, the whole family is very much revered. So, I'm getting a new respect for him, because it takes so much compassion of love, of humanity to try to promote that there's a better way of living. So, yeah.

[01:56:57]Luke Storey:  That's awesome. Thank you for those three. Yeah, I don't know much about Confucius, but I am a little familiar with the Dao. And I mean, I love paradox, and the Dao's whole paradox, because life, if it's anything, it's paradoxical, right? So, thank you for the recommendations. And where can we find your websites? How can people find your clinic, the Chara Omni cream that I'm obsessed with? 

[01:57:23]Joy Kong:  The Chara Omni, you can just get online, just charaomni.com. So, it's Chara, C-H-A-R-A, omni, O-M-N-I. So, charaomni.com. And chara is the Greek word for joy. So, the company I founded, Chara Biologics that provide stem cell companies to doctors throughout the country, actually, it's really that what I want to bring is more joy to the world. And I think there's joy in healing.

[01:57:52] So, chara, it's not just average happiness, it's actually joy. So, Chara Omni is a cream and you can find me at our clinic. So, the clinic is the THEA Center for Regenerative Medicine. So, the website is just the THEA CRM, so T-H-E-A-C-R-M, .com. And yeah. So, our office, if you want to call us, is 818-356-8232. And we love helping anybody that wants to experience these cutting-edge treatment modalities.

[01:58:28]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the show, and thank you for treating me the other day, and gave me the tour of the office. You guys are doing some really cool stuff. Just when I think I had Los Angeles on lock, like I know all the great spots, and it's like, oh, there's another one that I didn't know about. So, I'm really glad to meet you and to experience your stem cell treatments. Man, I'm excited. And when I'm well-heeled enough, I'm going to come out here every six months and do it again. 

[01:58:51]Joy Kong:  Oh, yes.

[01:58:53]Luke Storey:  So, yeah, I appreciate it. Alright.

[01:58:54]Joy Kong:  That would probably be the best investment that you will ever make, because I talk with people, and, oh, there was one patient, he comes to see me every three months, he said, man, this is the best investment ever. I'm investing in myself. He said, my friends that are investing in stock, he's like, who cares? This is your best investment.

[01:59:13]Luke Storey:  Yeah, agreed. Alright. Well, thanks for coming on.

[01:59:16]Joy Kong:  You're so welcome. It's been a blast. We cover a lot of grounds.

[01:59:19]Luke Storey:  We sure did.

[01:59:20]Joy Kong:  Yeah. Thank you, Luke.



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