297. Unnatural: The Hidden Costs Of Wireless Technology & EMF Pollution W/ Jaymie Icke

Jaymie Icke

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Jaymie Icke, founder of media company Ickonic, talks about his film Unnatural which covers the dangers of 5G technology as well as the dangers of what we’re already exposed to today.

Jaymie Icke is Founder of Ickonic, a Brand New Alternative Media Channel producing Films, series, Podcasts and more.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Jaymie Icke is the founder of Ickonic Media Group, an alternative media channel producing films, series, podcasts, and more. He’s also the director of a new film called “Unnatural” that examines the connections between cancer and electromagnetic technology, as well as the increased use of social media and cell phones as they pertain to mental health.

Our conversation centers on the worldwide effect of electrosmog, or EMF pollution, in the environment around the world, in addition to the political implications of telecommunications companies lacking safety testing for various infrastructures and technologies. We’ve talked about the health implications of EMFs before, but this is the first time we’ve zoomed in to look at the global effect of EMFs, socially and politically.

Many of you will recognize the name Icke from our recent episode with Jaymie’s father, David Icke. Jaymie shares what it was like growing up with David Icke, if any of his dad’s theories were too out there for him, and if it was tough to see the ridicule his dad faced by the media and online trolls.

We also discuss why they started Ickonic in the first place and what each of us can do to circumvent and prevent censorship, one of the greatest threats to our democracy, and the concerns around lack of privacy and surveillance that come along with 5G technology. We must choose awareness over fear, so take the information in so you can be more aware—but try to stay relaxed, have fun, and enjoy life.

12:17 — Growing up as the son of David Icke

  • Having the attitude of questioning everything and believing what is right for you regardless of the authority
  • Seeing the work David is doing in the world and working together closely
  • The surreal experience of seeing your dad walk out into a crowd of 3000 people
  • Viewing his childhood as a free education
  • Enduring bullying or ridicule due to his fathers’ ideas
  • What was tough at the moment became a gift
  • The great thinkers who were ahead of their time but weren’t appreciated until their predictions were proven true
  • The ideas of David Icke that were too out there
  • How little we know about what there is to know about reality
  • The common stories between separate ancient cultures

26:15 — The idea and inspiration behind creating the alternative content platform Ickonic

  • If the mainstream media were doing their job, all the corruption in the world should have been exposed
  • People wanting more substance from their media
  • How the media has an allegiance to who pays them, creating a conflict of interest
  • Finding a balance of production and credibility
  • The looming threat of censorship
  • The barrier of entry when it comes to quality

36:49 — All about “Unnatural”

  • Exposing the dangerous technologies that we already use
  • The decade-long explosion of radiation exposure and the lack of evidence pointing to its safety
  • The evidence pointing to how unsafe exposure to EMF is for us
  • The rising rate of cancers, brain tumors, and birth defects since cell phones became widespread
  • EMF being listed as a type-2 carcinogen
  • The mental health epidemic we are going to face
  • The government conspiracy prioritizing profits over safety

54:20 — The danger of current technologies compared to what’s coming

  • The difference between millimeter waves and microwaves
  • Why no countries have done any research on the safety of these newer technologies
  • The difficulties in proving the health problems ourselves
  • How we can fight back

01:03:17 — The deeper motives behind mass surveillance

  • Surveillance leads to massive profits
  • The potential to misuse people’s data
  • The potential future with brain implants and virtual reality
  • The unhealthy relationship between humans and technology
  • The monetary value of data
  • The dangers to democracy caused by surveillance

01:14:28 — How people can mobilize and build awareness

  • Petitioning to block 5G in your town
  • Boycott the technology and realize your own power
  • Educate yourself and become aware
  • Watch “Unnatural” and ask questions

More about this episode.

Watch it on YouTube.

[00:00:00]Luke Storey:  I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Welcome to the show, Jaymie. What's happening, dude?

[00:00:30]Jaymie Icke:  Thank you very much. Yeah, all good. All good over here. How are you?

[00:00:34]Luke Storey:  I'm great, man. Really good to meet you. I had an incredible time interviewing your dad, David Icke, recently on the show. It was a huge hit. People just went absolutely mad for that one, as I knew they would. And so, I was really excited to talk to you and keep the lineage alive, as it were. I want to start just by—I don't want to spend too much time on this because I want to talk about your film and like the various projects you're doing because you're doing great work in the world, but I can't help being so curious what it was like to grow up being the son of David Icke.

[00:01:05]Jaymie Icke:  It was certainly not boring. Yeah, it was interesting. It's been very interesting. I've always been brought up with the attitude of question everything, question everything anyone ever tells you, and just go with what feels right for you. Don't believe something or take something as given just because it's somebody in authority, whether it's teacher or politician and so on, is telling it to you. So, I was really, really proud and really, really pleased of that. And obviously, the work he's doing now in the world is an incredible thing to be a part of. I've been very fortunate to work with him for a few years on particularly his events. 

[00:01:39] His events side of stuff, I've been very heavily involved with for about five years. So, I got to travel the world with him as well and see these audiences grow, which has been quite a surreal experience, really. We sat in a little office on the Isle of Wight in England, and then you go to Sydney and your dad walks out in front of 3,000 people, it's quite a surreal experience, really. But yeah, it was an amazing, amazing upbringing, very much. You can achieve whatever you want to achieve, put your mind to it. And I kind of got interested in the information when I got to about 15, 16. And since then, it's just been a free education, really. 

[00:02:20]Luke Storey:  When you were going in school and what not, your dad's pretty noteworthy, obviously, probably more so in the UK than anywhere else, did you face any sort of ridicule, or bullying, or anything like that from kids in school in regard to your dad's, sometimes, far-out views on the world?

[00:02:43]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah, a little bit. It was a strange school experience, really, because I was a very, very good football and a soccer player. And I actually had trials at places like Manchester United, which is a club most people in the world would have heard of. So, in theory, I should have been the coolest guy in school. I should have been like this, the jock, in America, kind of. And instead, I wasn't it at all. It was very much, yeah, quite a lot of that.

[00:03:07] And my brother and sister went through it, too, but I kind of was on the tail end of it. I was not born until 1992. And obviously, the height of his sort of infamous ridicule was around 1991 and the preceding years after the Terry Wogan interview in England went out in '91. So, I kind of got the tail end of it. And it was hard because you're being kind of had to go out for things that you're not responsible for. Also, you're too young to understand.

[00:03:35] So, obviously, when I was in school, 2001, 9/11 happened. And then, not long after that, the 7/7 attacks in London happened, which are obviously two high-profile terrorist events that the kind of the alternative media were very vocal on the fact that it wasn't who we were told it was. So, that was something that I kind of had to deal with in school. But the older I got, the irony is kids that used to be not particularly pleasant to me in school used to come up to me in the street when we got to 21, 22, and say like, oh, it's great to see your dad doing so well, all this stuff that he said that's coming true. 

[00:04:09] So, it was hard at the time. But looking back, I think it was actually a gift, because in the same way that my dad will say that that Wogan interview and the ridicule, probably, that was a gift, because it kind of got him out the prison of caring what anyone else thinks. Because once you've been through that, it's just, who cares? It's kind of, I can talk about shapeshifting reptilians because people think I'm mad anyway.

[00:04:34] I mean, so this key, finally got that aspect to it. And it was kind of the same for me. I was actually quite shy in school because of things like that. But through it, I don't care now, I say what I believe to be right, I do what I believe to be right. And if people don't like that or they don't like me, it really doesn't bother me anymore, which I look back on that as a tough time in the moment, but as a gift, a gift kind of in retrospectively looking back.

[00:05:01]Luke Storey:  Yeah, that's one thing I really admire about your dad, is his seeming ability to be impervious to ridicule and just like laugh it off. And I hear him talk about that. And I observe other people that are kind of fringe in the information that they put out, even though much of the fringe information is actually turning out to be more valid and true than mainstream information when it comes to journalism and media, but I see the stuff that he's been through over the years because I've been following his work since, I don't know, 2000, 2001, probably, and I look at myself, and like I get one person trolling me on Instagram, and I get all heated and pissed off, and have to like really work to not respond and feed into it or I feel bad like, am I doing something wrong?

[00:05:53] It's like, it's much easier to say you don't give a shit about what people think than to actually live there and just accept that it's not about you that if someone's trolling you, it's really more about them, and the emotional and psychological problems that they have, where they feel the need to sit down and spend their time and energy to attack someone online. So, I'm working on becoming more thick-skinned in that area. 

[00:06:19]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah. I totally, totally get that. We'll get into that, I'm sure, when we talk about the film, that aspect of giving people a voice on those channels. But I mean, I think the way he looks at it is, so obviously, when you say something massively ahead of time, as a lot of people have throughout history, they've always been ridiculed by the generation that they're in, people like Leonardo da Vinci that were abused at the time when they were alive, but we look back on now as these great thinkers that were ahead of their time. 

[00:06:49] But at the time, they weren't appreciated as much as they should have been. Nikola Tesla was another one. But because they're ahead of their time, they're saying things that kind of the majority of people are not used to hearing, you're generally going to get ridiculed. You're going to get abused, you're going to get a kickback from it. But if you don't say that, if you don't say what you believe to be right, what are you going to do in 10 years when something happens that you've known about forever, are you're going to go, oh, well, I knew this whole time? 

[00:07:15] Whereas, if you speak your truth, and then you're proven to be right later on, then what you said has a lot more credibility, which is what's happening now because of things he wrote about and spoke about 20 years ago that are coming to fruition. That gives what he's saying now a lot more validity. So, it's just one of the swings and roundabouts. It's longevity. It kind of got the sense that John Lennon, it's, it will be alright in the end, and if it's not alright, it's not the end.

[00:07:42]Luke Storey:  I love that. I love that. That's great, man. Yeah, well, it's a good perspective, I think, too, in all of this because there's so many heavy things going on in the world right now as each of us have the opportunity to build awareness, to create content, to share information. But at the same time, some of that information can be so unsettling when you start to get into the depth of corruption and evil that exists at the highest levels of control in the world. 

[00:08:14] I think it's healthy to kind of take it with a grain of salt and wear the world like a loose garment at the same time because there's only so many things that you can control. And the main thing, I think, that you can control is your own perception and attitude around what's going on, which I definitely want to talk about when it comes to the issue of EMF, and technology, and things like that, because there's a real fine line there between awareness and paranoia, also. 

[00:08:39] Before we get into Unnatural, and I want to also talk about the iconic website, and censorship, and how you're doing a great job of bypassing that, as you've come up and observed your dad's speeches and all the content that he's doing, have there been things that he's brought up that are just too far out for you, that you're just like, cool, dad, that if you believe that, God bless, but that just seems too crazy to me or does all that kind of make sense on some level?

[00:09:10]Jaymie Icke:  I think all of it makes sense from the perspective that I think we know probably North Point North, North 1% of what there is to know about reality, about who we are, about the world, about what happens after, all these things that we claim to to be the important issues. I think we know a fraction of anything about it. And I think when you approach your life from that attitude, then you can't discount anything because it's all very well and good saying, how do you prove it's right?

[00:09:38] Well, also, how do you prove it's wrong? Some of the very far-out things that he speaks about, you have to look at the bulk of evidence to support them. So, you talk about like probably the most far-out one that he's talked about, which is the idea of interbreeding between humanity and a non-human force, a non-human race. That story is not new. That story is in, pretty much, every ancient culture across the world from the indigenous Australians, the South Americans, the ancient civilizations in Asia, in the Middle East, that story is a common theme. 

[00:10:19] Yeah. People from all these cultures around the world, according to the technology that supposedly existed at the time, they would have never communicated, they have not sat down and written a common story, yet they all seem to share the same story. They use different names, but they're describing the same phenomena. And I think when things like that happen, you have to kind of look at it with some credibility and think, maybe there's a lot more to know here. Maybe there's definitely something in this. 

[00:10:43] So, I don't think you can discount any of that information. I think someone's got a shapeshifter on live television, I think, for the world to probably, in masses, understand and buy that, but I definitely don't think you can discount anything. There are parts of what he speaks about that I'd like to understand a lot better than I do, but when you approach life with the attitude that we know a fraction of what there is to know, then you can't really dismiss anything, I don't think. 

[00:11:13]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I agree. I also think that for those of us that have had experiences with plant medicines and psychedelics, you definitely get a purview into the multi-dimensional universe. And once one's crossed, at least in my experience, I don't know if this is the case for everyone, but once one is pierced, the veil of the senses that we feel out into the world with as being embodied, and you remove that filter, and you start to experience life interdimensionally, it's very difficult to go back into thinking that we're confined to this Newtonian physical, concrete, material world and that there's nothing else there. 

[00:11:58] So, while I don't encourage that everyone go and have those experiences, because I don't think they're necessarily right for everyone all the time, I know for me, having had a few of those in my lifetime, that's like, I don't not believe anything because it's just, you watch the world around, you kind of disintegrate, and you merge into consciousness. And once that happens, especially with something like DMT, it's like nothing is ever the same. So, it's really impossible to get imprisoned in the kind of even the periodic table, and the mathematics as we know them, and everything like that just kind of dissolves and becomes a non-reality. And so, that leaves you, I think, more open to different ideas once you've plunged into that pool of alternative awareness. 

[00:12:52]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah, I agree. I've not delved into the psychedelic world myself yet. I had an opportunity to go and do ayahuasca a few years ago, and I don't know why, it just terrifies me at the time. I mean, a friend of mine that's quite sort of into that kind of stuff, they say, with ayahuasca, you do it when you feel to do it, and I didn't at the time. I still felt terrified. I think there's part of that fear of not being in control. When you drink alcohol, you know roughly what's going to happen, when you got five, six points, you know you're going to feel a bit.

[00:13:23] But obviously, ayahuasca, you can have great experiences. Some people have horrible experiences. I think it's the fear of the unknown, which is probably the currency that controls the world, really, the fear of the unknown. And that's what scares most people into doing whatever it is they do, because their fear of what happens after you die, that unknown, is generally what keeps people in servitude. So, yeah, that has always put me off. But I'll do it one day. I'll do it one day.

[00:13:50]Luke Storey:  Well, I think it's wise of you to listen to your intuition. And I didn't do that shit for—I probably knew about it for 20 years before I ever did it. It's just, I had to wait until I really felt an honest, legitimate yearning that wasn't just to see some bells and whistles, and kind of have some fun hallucinating, seeing colors, and whatnot. Like I had to have a very specific intention. And once that intention had arrived in my awareness that I went and explored a bit, and have been for maybe a-year-and-a-half.

[00:14:23] But as I said, I don't think it's for everyone. I don't think you really need to. Many people meditate and they achieve those same states just naturally by accessing their own consciousness and super consciousness. And even doing it with breath work, and meditation, and things like that, one can pierce the veil and see that life is much bigger than our physical surroundings lead us to believe. 

[00:14:48] So, let's get into your site, Ickonic, something that I'm watching emerge online and on social media now are alternative platforms for content as the authoritarian, corporate government controlled big tech companies or tightening their reins and removing information that threatens the official narrative when it comes to pharmaceuticals, and EMFs, and these kinds of things, how long has that been going and what was your inspiration to launch that platform?

[00:15:24]Jaymie Icke:  We launched on the 5th of November, year just gone, so we've been going just over eight months now. The inspiration for me was that the media has always been the biggest frustration for me. I mean, as we've kind of alluded to already about the darkness, you can get into the really dark areas of satanic abuse, paedophilia, political manipulation, and so on. But for me, if the media did their job, that couldn't happen because it would be exposed. 

[00:15:52] So, some of them might say harshly, I put all the devastation that goes on around the world, I put it at the door of the mainstream media, for me. Because as I say, they've got so much money to have reporters everywhere as they do. And if they did their job, all this corruption, all this horrific stuff that goes on around the world should be exposed. It should have been going on for about five minutes before it was exposed.

[00:16:14] The pandemic at the moment is a perfect example. If the media did their job, this would have been over three, four months ago. Rather than focusing on the fact that figures are dropping and that there's very little evidence that anyone as healthy as even has a problem at all, they're focusing on, you have to lock people down, these many people are dying, you have to restrict this, you have to wear masks. And so, that was my inspiration, was I felt that with this growing appetite I kind of feel around the world for people wanting substance and wanting a little bit more from their media, they wanted a bit more in-depth, they didn't like that quick sound bites, and effectively, the propaganda that the media put out now, and I thought we could do something different. 

[00:16:57] And the reason that we set out the channel as a subscription-based channel was I feel that's the best way to be truly independent because you're only answering to your subscribers. And if your subscribers don't support what you do, then they don't support you by subscribing. And therefore, the channel doesn't last. Whereas, channels like CNN, Fox, BBC here in Britain, they're either state-funded, so their allegiance is not to the people, it's to who's funding them or they're funded by massive corporations like the pharmaceutical companies. 

[00:17:30] I dread to think the percentage of marketing, the percentage they have on American television. So, therefore, there's a conflict of interest there. So, you take what's happening now, for example, with all these various pharmaceutical companies fighting for this vaccine, all the mainstream channels in America, particularly, where, obviously, drug adverts are very, very prominent, they've got a conflict of interest exposing whether this vaccine is safe if a certain company is spending how many million dollars a year on the station on advertising. There's a conflict there. 

[00:18:02] Whereas, with the subscription, there is not. And then, in terms of getting out to a wider audience, I feel one of the issues that the alternative media has had over the years has been production value. It's been a lot of people really doing great work, putting out great information. But I think some people look at somebody on CNN, the suit, the Smart shirt in a lovely studio with a big LED wall behind them, and they think, oh, this is more credible because look what he's got set up.

[00:18:34] So, I think it's just finding that balance of trying to put together a channel where alternative information is delivered in a package that people used to see. It's delivered with good production values. It's delivered in a decent studio with decent cameras. And, yeah, it's put together in a way that people can try and digest, and see as credible. That's why if you notice from the film, it's all mainstream doctors, and scientists, and psychologists, and so on that are in the film.

[00:19:05] And I think that gives the argument a lot more credibility. And that's what we try to do with pretty much every bit of content we've made is more the alternative with the mainstream people that are not getting the airtime, but have the alternative views. And as we know, there's a massive array of subjects you just don't talk about in the mainstream, or if you do, you only talk about it from one angle.

[00:19:30]Luke Storey:  Yeah. Well, I'm very grateful for you and others like you that are giving content creators an opportunity to produce high-quality content and have it be seen somewhere. Typically, on this show, the show isn't based on covering conspiracy theories, or politics, or racial issues, or anything like that, there's a very specific and somewhat narrow focus of talking about health and spirituality, et cetera. 

[00:19:57] But when the COVID thing happened, even though it turned out to be really more of a political issue than a health issue, I felt inspired to do some coverage on it after I kind of let it percolate out there for a couple of months and sat back. I didn't want to react emotionally, but I really wanted to just gather more information. And I did one interview with Dr. Thomas Cowan and it was—no, it wasn't that one. That one, when I put the Cowan one up on COVID, I used all these different keywords and misspelled anything related to vaccines, COVID, 5G, et cetera, evaded detection on YouTube.

[00:20:37] But when I did the Dr. Rashid Buttar episode, I didn't know that the film, Plandemic, was coming out when I named it, so the file name on the mp4 that was uploaded had the word plandemic. And so, YouTube deleted it. So, I think we ended up putting it on BitChute, and then just linking to it on the YouTube page. But I was like, it's the first time it really hit me. I mean, I've been censored on Instagram for like false information when I just put a link to a mainstream news story about the COVID test being faulty, et cetera. 

[00:21:12] But yeah, that one was like, oh, shit, man. It's not going to be long before these tech platforms render themselves obsolete, because even a rational kind of middle of the road, moderate people are going to realize that the information is being so carefully curated by those folks with conflicts of interest. It's like, well, why can't you ask a question about something? I mean, you can't ask a question about vaccine safety, or the safety of 5G, or any of this without being vilified? I mean, that's got to be alarming to people, I think, that are even of the rational, non-conspiratorial mindset. As far as the Ickonic site, is that all content that you guys are producing or do you have other content creator's material on there as well? 

[00:22:04]Jaymie Icke:  It's a combination. So, there's a lot of originally produced stuff. So, we do a unique series each month, and we do four or films a year, and then we license a lot of content as well from other creators of stuff that's already out there. And we've actually given budgets to people that want to make films on certain subjects. So, yeah, the ambition is to basically be a Netflix of the alternative where you're focusing on alternative everything.

[00:22:31] So, it just doesn't have to just be the heavy topics that we've spoken about already. We're actually launching in September a comedy section where we're focusing on the comics that are a bit more edgy and anti-PC that, as we know in the world of offense rules, are getting gigs canceled, are getting contracts canceled, and you don't see people that make jokes that used to be funny. They're not considered allowed anymore by kind of the progressive thought police of like the social justice warriors, which is killing comedy in so many ways.

[00:23:07] So, I didn't expect the channel to go in that direction, but we got approached by a Canadian comedian. And then, there's a couple of very good British comedians I've seen have gotten hot water for saying nothing, really. So, yeah, we're going to launch that and hopefully have a home for those people as well. Yeah. So, yeah. The idea is to be the alternative everything. So, there's stuff on there from pseudoscience, science, health, yet comedy coming, this podcast with people from the world of sport, music, drama, and film. So, there's a massive array of stuff on there. So, it's just a start. Just a start. We'll see where we end up.

[00:23:53]Luke Storey:  Well, I appreciate what you alluded to in terms of the production value of alternative media, having been someone myself who's been watching really fringe content for a long, long time. I mean, I'm going back to DVDs that I had of like Alex Jones breaking into Bohemian Grove and the films on HAARP. For those listening, H-A-A-R-P, research it, you'll freak. And chem trails and things like that. This is going back in kind of early to mid-2000s. 

[00:24:26] And I was working in Hollywood at the time in the entertainment industry so kind of had that lens of like what real production looks like, and I always remember thinking as I watch these really crappy DVDs of just like, God, this information is so good. If somebody would just produce this in a way that was more watchable with better sound, and video, and just production value, graphics, et cetera, now, of course, technology is caught up a bit, too, which has helped, but I think that's been a barrier to entry for people that just don't want to watch like shitty homemade films even if the content is compelling.

[00:25:02] You have to be someone who's really devoted to learning about that particular topic to sit through a really shite production. So, I'm really stuck to hear that you're realizing that and presenting things in a way that are more compelling visually and just in terms of the overall production value, which brings us to the film, Unnatural, which is what I really want to talk about here. As someone who is very EMF-aware, it's something I've spent a lot of time working on educating people about, because personally, I truly believe that the electro smog issue, this form of pollution is the number one detriment to not only human biology, but I believe all life on Earth.

[00:25:49] And so, again, it's another one of those topics that kind of crosses over into the geopolitical realm, which is not really my lane. But coming from the health perspective, it's something I'm really concerned about and to the point where I even just created an online course about how to get your home tested for EMF and how to fix it. But in terms of the activism side and understanding what's going on in the big telecommunications companies and the rollout of 5G, I'm not as knowledgeable. So, break us down, if you would, what inspired you to make the film? And give us as many of the nuggets from it as you can from your point of view at this point.

[00:26:34]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah. Okay. So, obviously, 5G is a topic that most people listening will have heard of, where they've heard the good perspective, where they've heard the conspiracy theories, or whatever they've heard of what 5G is. And I kind of see that as someone who's always followed alternative information, it's almost like a fork in the road. It seems to have galvanized a lot of groups from around the world and a lot of activist groups have started out purely to expose, and discuss, and block 5G, which I've found very encouraging. 

[00:27:03] So, when, obviously, we first launched the channel, I thought, right, first, let's kind of strike while the iron is hot, like let's make a film on a very topical issue. In the process of kind of the pre-production and the planning, I found this big wealth of evidence to suggest that the frequencies that we have now, 3G, 4G, Wi-Fi, and so on are dangerous. So, I thought it's much easier to make a film where we talk about what we've got now, and then towards the end of the film, we introduce 5G. 

[00:27:33] Because by the time you introduce that topic, you've already got the audience 45 minutes into the film and they're already thinking, okay, what we have now is dangerous, so what's this next stage? Rather than just saying, right, well, what's coming next week is going to cause this, it's going to cause that, it's going to cause that. I think exposing what we have now and the fact that that, itself, is very, very dangerous creates a lot more credibility to the argument that 5G is going to be even more dangerous. 

[00:27:59] So, the way that we carried out the film is almost like a story. So, 1988 when the Internet came, the dial-up internet came, and then, obviously, how that's evolved into the early mobile phones, and then, obviously, the first iPhone in 2007, which is when the use of tech became a lot more widespread, where you had social media, music, films all on your phone, all in the palm of your hand in that one device.

[00:28:26] And since then, obviously, the explosion in the use of technology has effectively taken over the world in many ways, socially and physically in terms of the number of cell towers, the size of cell towers, the number of use of mobile phones, the number of use of Wi-Fi and other telecommunication services, the radiation in the atmosphere has just absolutely exploded. As one doctor in the film points out, 120 years ago, the frequency band that the telecommunications industry use was known as the cosmic quiet space.

[00:29:04] There was basically no radiation on Earth in that frequency band 120 years ago. We're now exposed to ten to the power 18, so 10 with 18 zeros after it times more radiation in that band than we were 120 years ago. So, just think about the 120 for a second, how short a time that is given how long we think we know the Earth has been around to change the environment that dramatically. That's barely a generation of people, a-generation-and-a-half of people, really. 

[00:29:38] And the widespread use and the widespread rise is generally since about the late '80s, early '90s. So, in terms of the widespread use of technology, we're what, 10 years in, say, 2010, since 2010 where most people have Wi-Fi in their homes, pretty much everyone will have a smartphone, the percentage of kids under the age of 10 have their own smartphones is extraordinary. So, the exposure to the use of technology, and therefore, the radiation, the EMF that comes of it, it's a decade old.

[00:30:11] So, do we have any evidence to show that's safe? Do we have any evidence on what the long-term impacts could be to psychology, to physical health to show it's safe, certainly, to show it's safe? We have a lot of evidence to show that it causes a range of issues. There's an illness now called EHS, electromagnetic hypersensitivity, which are people that suffer some of the most severe types of response to EMF, things like headaches, nausea, tinnitus, tiredness, really kind of debilitating things that could massively impact you living a normal life, having a job, all those things. 

[00:30:53] And then, in the most severe cases, the rise in various types of cancer, aggressive brain tumors, because your phone's right next to your head, it's a few inches away from your brain, the decrease in sperm rates for men that keep their phone in their front pockets, the issues with birth defects has been has been widely talked about. So, there's a lot there to be cautious of. And it kind of correlates with so many things that we talk about in the world where they've not really hidden this evidence very well, because if you look for it, it is there. 

[00:31:35] For example, EMF is classed as a type-two carcinogen, which means potentially cancerous and something to be cautious about. Okay. So, if you look at that, you'd think, well, why are we rolling this out everywhere then? Why is every house have a Wi-Fi, really? Why is every house have five or six devices? I mean, I guarantee, if you put your phone on now and put the Wi-Fi on, you pick up, what, 10, 15, 20 Wi-Fi signals off one device, times that by the probably four or five devices most people have in their homes, you're getting hammered all the time.

[00:32:07] That's not being cautious. And the precautionary principle that a lot of doctors talk about, which is, at first, we do no harm. So, first, it's not up to us to prove it's dangerous, it's up to you to prove it's safe. And that's never been done. And I think we're going to see an enormous—we already are seeing enormous increases in cancer rates, but I think we're going to see even more enormous increases in cancer rates as we go through the next decade and beyond.

[00:32:35] We're going to see massive psychological issues with particularly young people because they're not going to develop in the same way. Their cognitive development is not going to happen in the same way because of neuroplasticity when, as your brain develops, neurons that fire together, wire together. So, what you spend a lot of your time doing, that's where your neurostructure goes to. You spend a lot of time playing music or instruments, that's what you structure goes to.

[00:32:58] You learn languages a lot, that's what your structure will go to and you'll find that easy. If you're gaming all the time, if you're watching television all the time, if you're constantly on your phone or on social media, that's what your structure is going to go to, and it's going to become hard-wired. And the older you get, the harder it's going to become to rewire and undo that damage. And that's why I think the unfettered use of cellphones, particularly with the young, the unfettered use of social media with the young is going to have a huge impact on the health and development as they grow up.

[00:33:37] And you're going to have an entire generation of people that don't know how to form meaningful relationships, that only have superficial interaction with other people, that when they're stressed and when they need support, they're not going to go to people, they're going to go to phones, they're going to go to technology, they're going to go to devices. And I think it's a very, very dangerous thing because the kids of today are the leaders and the adults of tomorrow. 

[00:33:53] And I, for one, with a young son, don't even want to think about what the world's going to be like in 20 years, in 25 years, 30 years. I mean, I remember I was probably 11 years old when my mom got her first mobile phone. And it was a phone that you could use as a phone. That was it. And to see that evolve into texting, into all these apps, into social media, into all the things you can now do on a cellphone, with music, and stream films, and all those sorts of things.

[00:34:22] So, I think it's a very dangerous precedent. And the question is, where does it end? Does it end with a chip in your brain? I mean, that sounds like a crazy theory, but these Silicon Valley guys that are behind a lot of this technology development, that's what they're saying is the next step. So, it's not really a theory. It's what they're saying is next. And at what point does the phone not become enough? So, I think there's massive impacts for physical health, and mental health, and psychology. 

[00:34:53]Luke Storey:  I've observed recently with some of the social unrest and the antics of these violent hate groups like Antifa, I picture those kids growing up as gamers, just sitting, being fried by EMF, and just becoming, God bless them, but becoming deranged from like lack of human contact and blue light exposure all night long. And perhaps, just living in city centers where the level of EMF is just scrambling people's brains. And I know from personal experience, I would say I'm on the spectrum of being pretty sensitive to EMFs myself, when you're getting acute exposure to cell towers, it makes you crazy. 

[00:35:46]Jaymie Icke:  I mean, it's not good for your neurotransmitters, your hormones, just your sense of well-being. It causes so much anxiety. I think a lot of the people that we're seeing online that are just acting freaking crazy, it's got to have something to do with like EMFs scrambling their brains and just making them completely illogical and violent. That's just my theory. I don't know. In terms of interviewing the scientists, and doctors, and experts, and stuff in the film, did anyone present any hope or any different kind of technology where data could be carried wirelessly in a way that's safe? Have you heard any talk of that potentially being on the horizon?

[00:36:35] Oh, we didn't go into that too much. It was mainly how to reduce the exposure the way things are at the moment. Because we kind of look at it this way, as the governments have had numerous voices from science explaining that this is dangerous and they've done nothing with that information. They clearly prioritized tech companies' wishes, and profits, and influence over the public safety of their country. We've seen the same thing with smoking.

[00:37:03] I think there's a massive parallel between the smoking industry, and the technology industry, and the fact it took so long for the smoking industry to acknowledge that that was a problem. And by that time, it cost millions of lives already. I don't want the same thing to happen again. That kind of was an answer to your first question, why did we compel to make the film? So, we were basically working on how can you reduce the exposure if basically no one listens.

[00:37:27] So, things like using wired rather than using wireless. I don't have Wi-Fi in my house. I have everything wired. There are certain things you can do to protect your home, carbon paint, you can have certain types of shielding on your windows to reduce your exposure. Don't use your phone unless you have to. I have mine on flight mode through the night. I have a hard-wired landline, so if there was an emergency, someone could get a hold of me. 

[00:37:46] And I think it's easy to separate the social and the physical issues of technology, but I think they're very intertwined. I think because of Wi-Fi, because of cellphones, because of how easily accessible it is, because of this technology, because of the EMF, because of wireless and so on, it's so easily accessible, it then makes it so easy to impact social relationships. So, the fact that you can go out for a meal, because there's Wi-Fi pretty much everywhere now and there's 4G and 3G everywhere now, you can be sat with your girlfriend, but instead of talking to her, you're both scrolling on your phones. 

[00:38:28] You can be out with your kid, but instead of talking to him, he's on an iPad, and you're having a conversation, you are on your phone. I think because it's so easily accessible, that makes that very simple, which affects the social side of it. So, I think from my perspective, just a case of, why do you need to use this all the time? Why do you need your phone on you 24/7? Why do you need to be on it all the time? Why do you need a wireless network?

[00:38:54] And why do you need to be sitting on an iPad scrolling through shopping while watching something on the telly while your husband is out playing a game on his device? Why do you need that? We haven't had that for forever, we've had it for the last decade, so why do we need that now? And I hope that came from the doctors, it's kind of similar to the hope that I've got, really, is that 5G seems to have galvanized so many people, but it's forcing this debate to happen. 

[00:39:23] It's forcing the public debate on technology to happen, which they probably wouldn't have done without it. I think if 5G doesn't come along, then I think a lot—I mean, no one's really talking about 4G and 3G, and the dangers of that yet. I think they will do in time as the health impacts and the health effects become more prevalent through time and longer exposure to it. So, I see that as, as I said earlier, the fork in the road. 

[00:39:50] I see it as the point where people go, actually, I don't want a cell tower outside my front room. I don't want one every three lampposts, which is what they want with 5G because it doesn't travel very well through hard structures, so they have put the towers very close to the people. For two reasons, one, I think most people would look and probably think that's not good, but also, some people are probably thinking, why do we need it?

[00:40:13] I can download my movie on Netflix five seconds quicker, why do I need that? Sorry. Excuse me. Why do I need that? What we have now is perfectly adequate. I'm sat here in England, you're sat in America, we're talking with no lag and it's very clear, why do we need two towers outside your house and outside my house to make that, what, 1% better? Why do we need it? So, I think that's another big resistance to 5Gs, is just the sheer necessity is clearly not needed. 

[00:40:50] You're going to massively uproot streets and build these horrible towers outside people's houses, which don't look very nice. The exposure is very high because the distance between you and the tower is tiny. So, I think that's where the hope comes from, that 5G is almost like that, it's going to actually be the catalyst to bring it down. They think it's going to be the catalyst to take it forward and they might actually be the catalyst to bring it down.

[00:41:19]Luke Storey:  Did you guys cover the different phases of the 5G rollout? From the research that I did when I was putting together my course, we've got a couple of companies here in the States, for example, like in LA, you've got Verizon, says that they have 5G, and also, T-Mobile, when I went around and tested the towers, there were no millimeter waves happening like the real 5G that you're describing where it's short range, you have to have many cell sites everywhere, and all that. We didn't find any of that. But what we found was that the existing 4G network was still operating in the gigahertz range. I think it was like 1,900 megahertz, which would be 19 gigahertz, which is technically in that new 5G millimeter range. And that was already here on 4G.

[00:42:09]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah. 4G LTE usually ranges from 2,000 to 6,000 megahertz. So, yeah, between 20 to 60.

[00:42:18]Luke Storey:  Which is really the thing people are worried about with 5G anyway. So, it's like in the current version of 5G, which is not predominantly the short-range millimeter wave stuff that's super scary, that we're already living in a soup just with the 2, 3, 4, and the first phase of 5G, we're already completely swimming in all of these insane frequencies without the real 5G even being here yet, the one that has these faster download speeds and all the shit that we really don't care about. 

[00:42:48]Jaymie Icke:  We are. Yeah. And what we have now is very dangerous, as I said. And the evidence is quite clear for that. Even the mainstream studies that have been done have concluded that there's is a lot of dangers with these. There have been numerous studies that are showing that there's a massive increase in various types of cancers. So, I think, yeah, 5G, the version that is out now, as you say, is not too much stronger than 4G LTE, which is kind of the higher end of 4G, it's the millimeter waves.

[00:43:19] It's the higher short-range waves that you mentioned, they're the ones that we concluded react a lot more with biological systems. So, the difference between millimeter waves and microwaves, which are where we are now, microwaves, is the wave that's going through the air is a lot shorter. Now, we actually feel that that's more dangerous because the analogy that we use is if you imagine a balloon, a blown-up balloon, if you had an average of the amount of pressure that you're putting on it, so, say, what the governments consider the safe levels of radiation, and you put that over your whole hand, the balloon is probably not going to explode. 

[00:44:00] But you put the same amount of pressure, surrounding one pin, the balloon will explode. So, therefore, with 5G where there are long periods of no exposure at all, then there's a sharp spike with the millimeter wave, and then there's a long period where there's nothing at all, the average value doesn't work. Because over the average, the average exposure is probably not very low. But the sharp spike, as with the analogy, it's the sharp spike that pops the balloon. It's that that can cause problems.

[00:44:26] And that's why we need a completely new way of working out what's considered a safe exposure. I don't believe that the safety limits that we have at the moment are safe. I don't believe they're actually thought through. And the fact that they're going to use the same levels of 5G and, in fact, increase them is just, there's no evidence to show that's safe. They've not done a single country's worth of research, no research whatsoever.

[00:44:52] And the fact that they're allowed to roll out this system worldwide without doing that when they already class EMFs as level-two carcinogens that are potentially cancerous, you're now rolling out an even higher power around the world with no testing at all, you're using the population as the guinea pigs. And because of the way the world is, we're exposed to so many things these days in our diet, in our environment that are not great, that it's very difficult for people to prove that it's 5G or certain technologies that are causing these problems.

[00:45:26] Why is it making people more unhealthy, more jumpy, more tired, more lethargic, less motivated? You could probably find 50 things that most people agree, that most people will like probably have in their houses that they could claim cause that. So, how they've been allowed to do it is extraordinary, as far as I'm concerned. The governments that should be protecting the people are just seeing the pound signs and the dollar signs to sell off the spectrum licenses for the companies to use the frequencies rather than look at the health of the population.

[00:45:58] And people might look at that and think that's a very strange thing to do, but a doctor in the film called Alistair Phillips, he's a British doctor, uses the same points to describe what he discovered with the smoking industry. Alistair was very in with lots of public health England officials, they're the organization that supposedly advised the NHS and advised the government on health policy. And he was at a meeting and he asked one of the health advisers, he said, basically, why did it take so long for there to be an advert about the dangers of smoking and cancer? 

[00:46:31] Surely, the health costs of the NHS treating all these people that were getting these cancers just surely made it obvious to explain that it's dangerous. And the health officials said, actually, we make about ten billion pound a year more in taxes on cigarettes and tobacco-related products than it costs us to treat the people. And he said, even more importantly than that, smokers on average die 10 years younger and we save 10 years of state pensions. 

[00:46:56] Now, that sounds really cynical, but that was government thinking on smoking. And as I said earlier, I see a huge parallel between this. If people are getting aggressive brain cancers in their 50s and 60s, then they're not that bothered. You've paid your taxes. And I think there's no evidence to show that governments are interested in knowing the downside of this. In the UK alone, the government under Tony Blair, I believe it was, were paid billions by the tech companies for the spectrum licenses to sell off the 3G spaces in Britain. And they spent, I believe, 3.5 million on looking at the dangers. 

[00:47:37] So, you're getting billions in and you're spending a fraction, a fraction on looking at the potential dangers of it. They're not interested, simple as that. They're not interested. So, we have to do it ourselves. We have to stand up, and fight back, and we have to refuse to—people need to stop using the technology on such a large level, and they'll be forced to do something about it. Because the reason they're able to keep pushing this is because people want it. People want more. They want 5G. And then, when that's here, they'll want 6G, and then they'll want 7G, and they'll want to be able to press a little button inside of their head and their phone menu appears in front of them in a virtual reality format. Where does it end? 

[00:48:17]Luke Storey:  I can't help but thinking that the motive of the multinational telecommunication industry, those corporations, is not to provide faster downloads, it's like you said, like shit downloads fast enough, like I don't know, Netflix works, any streaming service as long as you have a decent connection works. It seems to me, as you kind of indicated there a moment ago, that the financial incentive to build the infrastructure, those companies are going to have to sell more cell sites and more equipment.

[00:48:55] There's going to have to be people that go to install it. There's going to be payments made to different cities, states, et cetera, to lease space to put the infrastructure in. And then, the other element to me that seems to be at play here would be the greater capacity for mass surveillance of the populace. Because when everyone is connected to the Internet of Things, and you have self-driving cars, and there's face recognition cameras everywhere and kind of what we're seeing as the prototype for what could, unfortunately, be the future of Western civilization in that totalitarian kind of control grid where there's all this surveillance, to me, the motive has got to be somewhere in those realms for them to be pushing so hard.

[00:49:45] And also, when it comes to 5G, the suppression of opposing views or people asking questions, I mean, I've seen a lot of this in the UK where it's just like Brian Rose on London Real just got all his shit shut down essentially, the main thing he got hassled for talking about was the possible health risks of 5G. And if there are health risks, then why would that be so threatening to the establishment? If it's safe, then we should all be able to just talk about it all day long without being censored. So, based on doing the film, Unnatural, did you come to any conclusions about the deeper motives beyond just the financial? Did you uncover anything in terms of the future ability of mass surveillance?

[00:50:30]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah. So, I mean, you can break it down in so many different levels and different layers of conspiracy. As you say, the first one could just be profit, pure profit, it's much better for these tech companies to have eyes on phones and eyes on the internet than it is to have eyes on other people. And that's why I think there's been a massive hit to divide people. And obviously, this pandemic has done that even more so. 

[00:50:52] People are communicating through technology more than they've ever communicated through technology before because of the social distancing and the lack of being able to travel. So, I say that that's definitely a very simple way to get through to people. Anyone that doesn't believe in conspiracy theory is fine, but just look at this, this is pure, pure, pure profit perspective. They're clearly ignoring the health effects.

[00:51:12] But yeah, I think there's a genuine kind of march towards submission, towards control, towards surveillance. I've not looked if it's the same in America, but here, now, with this, they released lots of track and trace apps. So, when you go into shops, when you go into bars, restaurants, you have to give your number and your name, and download this app. And if someone test positive of coronavirus, they'll tell you, and then you have to isolate. 

[00:51:35] It's crazy. The potential for the misuse of that data and of people's information is extraordinary. And you mentioned one thing now, the Internet of all Things, which is where your fridge is online, your phone's obviously online, your car's online, your whole house is online. So, fridge is going to monitor what you eat, your smart televisions monitor what films you watch, what your emotional reaction to the film that you've watched, smart hoovers will tell you how tidy someone keeps their flat, which will give you an idea of their psychology, they this, they that. It's extraordinary. 

[00:52:08] I mean, for what possible benefit is that? And obviously, as I mentioned earlier, the next step and the final step they're talking about is the implant of nano technology into your brain. And I think just to put that into context of people, most people would probably agree that they've had conversations with friends and family in public, and then later, you might get an advert on Facebook for whatever it is you've talked about. 

[00:52:34] Say it's a product, say it's a holiday, say it's a car, what happens when you have an implant in your brain, and you say, oh, I think I should go to Applebee's for dinner tonight. How do you know you've thought that? Well, how do you know that hasn't been just planted to you? How are you sure that's not a marketing campaign that can be abused, that can just plant thoughts into your brain to go and do X, Y, and Z, buy a certain product, go on a certain vacation, date a certain person. 

[00:53:02] Because once we get to that level, the level for manipulation and the level for control is ridiculous. It's literally turning humans into cyborgs. And the fact that so many people seem excited that that's the next stage terrifies me, absolutely terrifies me. Like there was a good passage in the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk where he talked about, he asked Elon Musk about where are we going to be in 20 years when we've got these virtual reality headsets?

[00:53:35] Where are we going to be in 20 years when we're taking the mecha of what it is now and we've gone to this next level? And Elon Musk says, it'll be indistinguishable from reality. You won't be able to tell the difference between virtual reality and actual reality. And I believe that to be true. The architecture of video games is the same as the architecture of our reality, so the ability to basically make that indistinguishable is very much there. 

[00:54:01] In an underground basis, it's probably there already. But, yeah, once you put an implant in people's brains, how do you know it's you that's having those emotions, those thoughts, those desires? I think it's absolutely terrifying. And like I said, I find it astonishing that people seem to think that's a good idea when we've survived on this planet—whatever your belief, whether it's science, whether it's evolution, whether it's a form of religion, we've been on this planet for a very, very long time and we've managed to survive without this. 

[00:54:32] So, in the space of, say, they've managed to get that in by 2030, from 1980 to 2030, so 50, was that, how many years? 50 years, you've basically gone from no technology to technology in people's brains, I can't even imagine—you couldn't explain that to somebody who hadn't witnessed it, the transformation of society in such a short space of time. So, that's where I see it going if people continue with, we want more, we want more, we want more, and we don't have a real hard reset and a hard evaluation of our use of technology. And I think it's very important for me to say that I'm not anti-technology at all. I just want safe technology and I want it to be the servant, not the master. 

[00:55:24] And I think the use of it in certain areas of medicine that allow people, war veterans to walk again, that would have never walked again. It's allowed various different things with neurological issues where people could speak and can understand that they would never have done so, I think technology has given us some great achievements. It's given us air travel. It's given us cause. It's given us trade. It's given us some great things in life. But I think the relationship between technology and humanity is becoming unhealthy, becoming unhealthy from a physical and a social perspective. And it's time to do a hard brake and evaluate it, I think, evaluate all use of it.

[00:56:08]Luke Storey:  Yeah, I think another mode of there in terms of the surveillance, too, is the monetary value of data collection, as the Internet of Things and 5G moves forward, and nanotechnology, and AI, and all of this transhumanism geared a progress, if you could call it that, a regression would be more my take on it, but imagine how much data can be collected through everything being wired up, again, as you described and it seems to me that the monetary motive would perhaps be even more so in that, that just every move you make is tracked and that data is worth something to these corporations that essentially consolidate power, and markets, and essentially run the world economy. The more they know about you as a private citizen, the more valuable your data is, and that's the best way to collect it. Did you guys kind of delve into that aspect of it in the film?

[00:57:17]Jaymie Icke:  We delved into that a bit. We actually have a politician in the film, a guy called Dr. Klaus Buchner, who's a member of the European Parliament for West Berlin. And he talked a lot about the dangers for democracy. And that kind of made me think of a film on Netflix called The Great Hack, where they focus on the influence that Cambridge Analytica had on the American election, the last American election. And that organization claimed to have 5,000 data points on every American voter, which is terrifying.

[00:57:48]Luke Storey:  Wow.

[00:57:48]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah, exactly. That's terrifying. So, I think the potential to influence people to think a certain way, to act a certain way is extraordinary. I mean, you can see that now, as we said a minute ago, we're being shown adverts for something. So, you might have mentioned something, and then you saw an advert for it, and then you look at it, you read it more, you read it more, and then that can have a massive impact on your attitude towards something, from one potentially innocent conversation than then led you down a rabbit hole, which if it was being used for good, I wouldn't mind so much, but it's obviously not. 

[00:58:25] So, yeah, the potential for influence in people's thoughts and opinions when you've got that much information on people is extraordinary. You'll know people's preferences on everything, what they eat, what they drive, where they go, what kind of women they want to date, and you can influence them enormously with all that information. The reason private information is called private information is because it's exactly that. It's information that you give out at your discretion.

[00:58:54] You give it out to the people that you trust and the people that you want to have that information about you. It's personal. It's private. It's of no interest to a corporation. How does that benefit your life? So, I would, again, massively encourage people to really just look at that, and just sit down, have a look, and think, do we need that? Do I need the X, Y, and Z corporations to know this much information about me, about my preferences on everything? How is that benefiting my life?

[00:59:27] Because it's taking out the mystery of life a little bit as well. It's taking out the wonder, the mystery, the spontaneity of life. It's making things forego conclusion, you know what's going to happen, you know what's come in, you know where you're going to go, you know how you're going to feel about this situation because everything's kind of decided for you to an extent. Whereas, I love the idea of almost doing a really hard reset, as I've said. And going back to how things probably were a while ago when people used to actually speak to each other, first of all, if someone had a problem, you went around the house, and you spoke to them about it, you didn't text them, you didn't WhatsApp them, you didn't Face Time them. 

[01:00:08] You went and actually spoke to them, you had human interaction, you hugged another person, you didn't send a hug emoji. So, yeah, I think there's so many areas of it that I think we need to really evaluate. But the biggest thing I would advise people is just sit down and actually think deep down, what of this is benefiting me? Is social media benefiting my life? Is it making me feel better or is it making me feel worse? 

[01:00:35] When I go on to Instagram and see a girl that I look—I don't look like her, but okay—is it making me feel more confident? Is it making me want to do things in my life or is it making me depressed? Is it making me unmotivated? Is it making me isolate myself? Am I not seeing my friends because I'm binge-ing television online or I'm constantly on Facebook, which so many people are? Yeah. Just evaluate it. Do you need it? Do you use it to benefit your life or is it an addiction? Is it something you just do because it's just what people do now? 

[01:01:22]Luke Storey:  Right. It's like, or do you use it or does it use you? 

[01:01:25]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah.

[01:01:27]Luke Storey:  As we come to a close here, I got to ask you something in terms of the mainstream media, the corrupt elements of that which are maybe 99.9% of it in my estimation, now, anyone that questions the safety of 5G is called a conspiracy theorist and I've noticed this especially true in the UK to the point where, now, you have citizens going out and tearing down the cell towers around the UK. How prevalent is that, A? B, what are some perhaps more productive and less crazy ways that people can mobilize, not only educate themselves, but once they get educated watching a film like Unnatural, for example, or listening to this, what's a more constructive way that people can mobilize and start to build awareness around this particular topic?

[01:02:25]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah. There was a phase of about two or three weeks, probably six weeks ago now where a few towers around the country were vandalized, and set on fire, and so on. It was quite a big story. One key thing to point out with the media coverage of 5G conspiracy theorists is, at no point, did they explain why they were conspiracy theorists. They just said, misleading claims of 5G. But they never claimed what they were and they never then provided any counter argument to say, well, 5G, this misleading claim is crap because this is safe and this is why. 

[01:03:01] It's literally almost the propaganda of say it for long enough and people will believe it. There's been no evidence to show that 5G is safe. And even the press aren't saying it is. They are just saying, these are crazy conspiracy theorists, but not explaining why. Whereas, what my attitude towards the media is if someone said something which I thought was crazy and we could substantially prove it was crazy, I'd go, right, get this guy on my show. 

[01:03:24] We'll get this scientist to support it on my show. We'll have a debate. And this scientist will blow this crazy guy's argument out of the water and this argument is done forever. Instead, they do the opposite, they censor it, and that's usually the sign that there's something in what's being said and there's something to hide. In terms of productive ways people can do more, there's a small town in England called Totness where a large enough group got together and petitioned to the local authority and they've actually blocked 5G being rolled out in that town. 

[01:03:59] So, that goes to show that what can be done on a small scale, which it sounds small, a small town in England, but what if every small town across America, every small town across England did exactly the same, all of a sudden, then the small scale becomes the larger scale. So, that's definitely an option. You just go on Facebook alone, and you'll see hundreds, and hundreds, and thousands of 5G, and anti-5G, and 5G awareness groups from all over the world.

[01:04:25] We've got a couple of the ladies from the Stop 5G Australia, and they've got over 70,000 members. So, there's definitely a big group, a big number of groups on Facebook for that to get educated, and to learn more, and to join people in your area that support what you might do as well. But I wouldn't condone violence, but I will say, and I'll say again, I'm not condoning violence at all, but no one's dying by burning down a cell tower.

[01:04:55] I'm not saying, go burn down a cell tower at all, I'm not saying that's all, but I'm saying in terms of there does come a point where people have to make a choice and some people might see that as the only option. I don't, I think, stop using it. What if no one buys the latest Huawei, or Samsung, or iPhone that's 5G? Fine. What if no one buys it? I think people don't really realize what their power is. I remember one of the things that made me so kind of, right, we can do anything here was a company like Coca-Cola, for example, the fragility of that.

[01:05:30] I read an article about, if people around the world didn't buy Coke for two days, they'd go bankrupt. Now, you think you think about a company the size of Coke, they're enormous, but obviously, the amount they sell daily is extraordinary as well. But the fragility of that, two days. So, if all these big tech companies released the latest 5G technology and people just don't use it, people don't buy the cellphones that are compatible with it, don't buy the tablets that are compatible with it, they don't upgrade their Wi-Fi have 5G in it, then they spent billions on rolling out this technology that people are simply not using.

[01:06:07] They'll be forced to sell, they'll be forced to re-evaluate. So, there's lots of things people can do, but the key to any kind of fight back is becoming aware, I think. I think you've got to get educated on it. Don't just take anyone's—that's one thing that I think people in the internet do a lot is they read one article and think they know what they're talking about on the subject. Keep reading. Read more.

[01:06:31] I thought I knew a bit about this subject when we start making the film, I realized I knew very little, and I've had a great education through it, and I'm continuing to carry that on. So, don't just look at one article or believe what someone was saying. Don't watch Unnatural and believe it. Watch Unnatural and think, right, I want to know more, and then educate yourself more. And then, you're more armed to go out and actually make your contribution to changing this.

[01:06:57]Luke Storey:  Sage advice. Yeah. When it comes to the cell towers being torn down, I, of course, officially on record, do not condone the destruction of private property and violence. But at the same time, I have to admit, there is a side of me that kind of chuckles inside when I see one of those go down. Like the guy in Australia who took like a tank and knocked down a cell tower. It's like, not the best approach, but there was some small satisfaction in that.

[01:07:24] And as I see, I don't know if that's happening over there, but in America, so many of our monuments and statues are being torn down every time a group galvanizes to take a piece of concrete down from being erect and laying it flat on the ground or dragging it into a moat, or whatever, I think, God, if everyone is just doing this to the cell towers, it would be a lot better world. That's not suggesting that I think your sound and sober route of doing things legally and ethically is the way to go. But, man, as someone who's been personally very negatively affected by cell towers specifically, they're kind of like my archnemesis. 

[01:08:04] So, anyway, man, well, I think that probably wraps us up here. I want to thank you for coming on the show and for doing the work that you're doing in the world, man. It's brave people like you, and your dad, and your brother who are willing to withstand censorship, oppression, de-platforming, ridicule, et cetera, all for the cause of discovering truth and sharing that truth to the best of your ability and knowledge. So, thank you for doing that. People find the film and your work, Ickonic, anywhere you want to point them to if they want to learn more?

[01:08:39]Jaymie Icke:  Yes. So, it's just www.ickonic with a K, I-C-K-O-N-I-C, .com. Anyone gets a seven-day free trial and there's thousands of hours of content on there, of course, a range of subjects, and new stuff comes every day. So, yeah, anyone could jump on and watch Unnatural for nothing. 

[01:08:59]Luke Storey:  Okay. Cool. And so, I know, one last question, and that is, who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and your work that you might share with the audience?

[01:09:13]Jaymie Icke:  Okay. Obviously, I've kind of got to say my dad for one, for giving me the attitude of you can do whatever you like, do whatever you feel to be right, and achieve whatever you put your mind to, and don't take no for an answer. And if you get knocked back, keep going. I think Martin Luther King is a massive influence on, again, with the attitude of, even if it's unpopular in his case, even if it gets you murdered, you do what you believe to be right, you say what you think is right, and stand for your truth, even at personal sacrifice.

[01:09:50] And then, another one is, I can't remember the guy's name off the top of my head, but they made an amazing film about it called Hacksaw Ridge, which was an American soldier in the Vietnam War who refused to go into the war with a weapon. He went in and said, there's enough hardship here, I don't want to cause any more, and he went in as a medic, and was abused, was ridiculed. And in the end, in one day, when a place called Hacksaw Ridge saved, I believe, it was about 73 men. 

[01:10:23] So, I think I've got that wrong. It was the Second World War, sorry, but that young man who, again, stood up for what he believes to be right, even at personal sacrifice. And in the end was the hero, and he's now somebody who is celebrated and honored. And when the film was released, I believe, two years ago, he was still alive and has been given the highest honor you can get from the American military. 

[01:10:49] But at the time, he was ridiculed. And I think that's very prevalent to both my dad and probably for myself, where you're probably not going to get thanks when you're doing it, but retrospectively, people would appreciate what you've done. And that's not why you do it, but I think it just shows that if you do what you think is right, eventually, it'll be shown that way, even if you have to deal with some abuse on the way.

[01:11:17]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Thank you. I've never heard of that. I'm going to check it out. I want to ask you one last question, and that is, I think I might have even asked your dad this. Have there been any points where you feared for the safety of your dad because so many of his views have come to light as being true over time and the information sharing is so potentially damaging to the establishment, to the cult, as he calls it? Have you ever worried like walking around the street with your dad, like, shit, someone's following us, or anything weird like that, or do you guys just keep charging ahead?

[01:11:52]Jaymie Icke:  Yeah. It's never even crossed my mind, really. 

[01:11:55]Luke Storey:  Wow. 

[01:11:55]Jaymie Icke:  If you came to one of our shows, the amount of times we come into places and they've been pretty steady with security, and it would be like how you're looking at it, and something kicks off. It's just me, I'm afraid. But yeah, no, it's never even crossed my mind. The only time I feared for him was the night that Leicester City won the Premier League in England and we were both so drunk.

[01:12:18] And when I dropped him off at his hotel, it was, I didn't know if I'd see him the next day. But yeah. No, it's never crossed our minds. We very much have, yeah, achieved the, you bring what you manifest. And if you don't even consider that to be a possibility, then it can't manifest. And we both have that attitude, no, we can't be taken out. If you're taken out, then you must believe that can happen, and we don't.

[01:12:43]Luke Storey:  Awesome. Awesome. Dude, thank you so much. Alright, man. Well, I'm going to bid you farewell. And I can't wait to watch this film. Normally, I watch them before I do the interview. And I realize today is the 15th of July as we record this 2020 and it's been out for five days. I'm like, God damn it. So, I can't wait to watch it. I want to encourage everyone else listening to watch the film and support the work that you guys are doing at ickonic.com and to keep sharing alternative points of view like this.

[01:13:12] I think that's the only shot that humanity has, is to have daring conversations that sometimes get uncomfortable in sharing them far and wide so that we're not dependent on single sources of information that oftentimes have conflicts of interest at their core and are intentionally, in some cases, misleading us or filtering out certain information through censorship. So, I thank you for the work that you're doing and thank you for coming on the show, dude.

[01:13:40]Jaymie Icke:  Thanks a lot.



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