[00:00:01] Luke: All right, I'm going to start with-- see if I could do this without crying. I don't care if I cry. I'm going to start with a debt of gratitude. You were the first guest on this podcast, Daniel.

[00:00:14] Daniel: Wow.

[00:00:15] Luke: It was episode number 2 back in 2016. And it's just funny to think about, I used to see you speak on stage, and I remember it was at one of the Longevity Now conferences in Orange County, and my boy Elliot that you know, we'd go just do the rounds at the conferences.

[00:00:34] I was still working in the fashion industry and definitely not fitting in there, not living to my real purpose, I think. But yeah, I remember I'd see you in the hall and be like, "Oh, there's Daniel Vitalis." I'd be all nervous to come say hi and talk to you. You're like a rockstar to me.

[00:00:55] And then we became friendly a bit and got to know each other. And one of the most pivotal moments in this version of my career was when we both spoke at an event sometime after that. And I'll never forget, I actually told this story the other day. We're at Neil Strauss's event, and there's all these speakers, you and other speakers for whom I had a lot of respect.

[00:01:22] And when I did my talk, I was super nervous. It was the first public speaking I'd ever done, at least on that particular topic. And I'll never forget, I got off stage and you go, "Man, that was really good, dude." And I was like, "Thanks." And you kind of pull me aside and you go, "You realize you could just be doing this? You could be a me, basically?"

[00:01:43] And I was like, "What?" It was so revolutionary to me. I never thought that I was-- I don't know if it was a self-worth thing or lack of experience, but it's just like that moment really landed for me in a big way, because I knew you weren't blowing smoke. And I respected your work.

[00:02:06] Daniel: I was listening to a psychologist the other day talking about imposter syndrome, and he was saying the biggest red flag is a person who doesn't have imposter syndrome. Because he was saying for most people, they have that. They always feel like, do they deserve to be doing-- are they good enough to do what they're doing?

[00:02:22] He goes, "It's the sociopaths that don't have it." So when somebody just doesn't have that, they're usually not really cut out even for what they're doing. So I think that's a good sign, when you're like, "I'm not sure--" There's so many people that I meet. Because it's such a small fraction of the population that has the particular gifting to go out onto stage like that.

[00:02:45] There's like 100 skills I don't have. I was just born with that one. That's the gift I got. And everybody gets different gifts. And you got that gift too. There's been a lot of people in my life who I've watched who want to go do that kind of work. And I'm sure you see it too, where you're like, "Oh, they don't have the thing."

[00:03:00] There's a charisma or a, I don't know, a knowledge base or whatever it is. Some people don't have it, but they really want to do that work. But it was really obvious from the beginning that you had that. And when I saw you on stage, I was like, "Oh." Because I had known you for a while, but I had not seen you perform like that. And right away it was like, "Oh yeah, he's got the magic to command a stage."

[00:03:23] Luke: I appreciate it. Yeah, it was very affirming. It's like one of those never forget where you came from things and who had your back in the early days. I don't know if those things stand out to me. I always remember that. And just inviting you on my podcast, it's like I had zero listeners. You know what I mean?

[00:03:44] And you took the time to be my guest, and it was like a big guest. I was like, "I got Daniel Vitalis." I lined up a couple of other pretty well-known people. Maybe to some, but not to others. And you're still one of my personal favorite guests, but a lot of people have explained how they found my podcast through you or through you being on the podcast. Was your first one called--

[00:04:20] Daniel: Rewild Yourself.

[00:04:17] Luke: Yeah, Rewild Yourself. I listened to every single episode of your podcast, which I can't say for many of them. And I would recommend people go back and listen to those, even though it's been some years. Those episodes were so--

[00:04:34] Daniel: I still get so many people telling me that they go back through the archives. Or I'll have people reach out who just found me and they've gone through and listened to that show. When I started that show, I was one of just a handful of podcasters. We were early to the game, and I'm so much more impressed because we were pretty successful with that show.

[00:04:52] But to watch what you've done is much more impressive to me because you've done it in a market that's so much more saturated. Now there's so many shows that it's almost like more unusual for somebody to not have a podcast that they do. So you're in a really difficult-- it was a lot easier when there was less people in the space. And a lot of the people who are really big now weren't really big then. Barely anybody knew who they were.

[00:05:17] And so it's been interesting to watch because I'm gearing up. I've just started recording interviews for a new show that I'm going to do. And just everything's different. It's exciting to go into a new landscape, but it's not like stepping over the bearing land bridge into a empty North America. It's like getting off the bus in New York City and you're like, "How am I going to make it here?" That's the podcast space now.

[00:05:40] Luke: That's a great analogy. Yeah, it's so true. It's not a frustration, but it's like I've been doing this for almost 10 years now, and it's like I've just been very consistent. I've never missed a Tuesday. And five shows a month, I don't know, 650 shows or something, but I feel like I'm working as hard as I possibly can at it, and I care about it so much.

[00:06:08] I do everything I can to provide a lot of value, but there are so many podcasts now. It's like sometimes I'll get-- I'll admit it-- maybe a little jealous or envious. You know, when I see someone just pop out of the woodwork and I'm like, you have a hundred million downloads. Who even are you? You know what I mean?

[00:06:24] Daniel: Right.

[00:06:25] Luke: It's like, what code have you cracked? I don't get it.

[00:06:29] Daniel: You've heard that thing too, where they're like, when somebody's new to the scene, it's because they've been doing 10 to 20 years of work behind the scenes. You know what I mean? It's like their first time we're seeing somebody doesn't mean they haven't been hustling for years to get to that place. So it's not easy.

[00:06:47] Luke: Totally. I like to think they're all Feds.

[00:06:51] Daniel: Yeah. They're being birthed out of tanks or something.

[00:06:57] Luke: Yeah. They have to--

[00:06:58] Daniel: The certainly [Inaudible] though. Huh?

[00:07:01] Luke: Yeah, I think so.

[00:07:02] Daniel: Yeah. I think so too. I think so too.

[00:07:05] Luke: What I've noticed on the Fed tip that's a giveaway is around the Charlie Kirk situation. The fact that Candace Owens seems to be the only person even asking questions about that whole scenario, and everyone else is just like, "Yeah, it's the official story."

[00:07:26] Daniel: Some people are really coming against her so hard that it's that thou death protest too much thing too. Some of the voices against her, you're like, "Wow, that's not how I'm saying." I feel like her questions are really, really honest. People are trying to say it's clickbait or something.

[00:07:47] I feel she's asking some really honest questions. And some of the things that happened with that-- I've tried not to get too drawn into that conversation, but boy, some weird stuff that happened there.

[00:07:57] Luke: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:00] Daniel: That was a really pivotal moment historically here in the US it seems. When I first heard the news, it was like, oh, okay, another thing. That really stood out to me actually, Luke, because I thought, "Oh, I'm getting desensitized to assassination." Because growing up, how many assassinations-- were you born Post Kennedy?

[00:08:23] Luke: I was born in 1970.

[00:08:26] Daniel: Okay. What year was he assassinated? It'd be late '60s, I think. Anyway, you were raised, but still you came up after that assassination. So the only thing that really happened in America was the attempt on Reagan, I think, after the Kennedy stuff happened. So I grew up in an era where political assassination was not a thing, and then we've started to see it coming back.

[00:08:51] There was that Wall Street shooting that happened, where the crowds really cheered for that one. And then there was the Trump attempt, or the second Trump attempt. And then there was the Charlie Kirk one. And I was just like, "Oh, I'm actually just getting used to this." And that says a lot about where our politics are at right now. It's eye-opening to me.

[00:09:12] Luke: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, man. It's a crazy world. I always say it's the best of times and it's the worst of times. It's like there's so much hope for an awakening. There's so many people waking up and using critical thinking and creating new systems of operating in the world.

[00:09:35] There's so much positivity at the same time. It's like the darker side of the human experience is just ramping up so hard in equal measure. It's just crazy. It's like you can look at things one way and be like, "Oh my God, we're doomed." We're in the middle of, I believe, a mass genocide of the pharmaceutical nature.

[00:09:57] And then yet at the same time, all of these young people now are starting to ask questions and wake up and pursue spirituality. And there's a new emergence of interest in religion and a lot of positive things at the same time. It's just like, yeah, I try to stay-- I think you're probably better at keeping a very light awareness of what's going on in the world and not get too sucked into it.

[00:10:23] Daniel: I don't know.

[00:10:23] Luke: I don't know. We haven't talked in a while. Maybe you do too.

[00:10:26] Daniel: I am careful. I can tell you that. Because I could be the kind of person who's watching, refresh, refresh. That's in my nature to want to know up to date every detail. So I really have to be careful about that and manage myself because I want to know all information. T1hat's just in my nature.

[00:10:45] I want all the information, all the details. Like my wife, and I think we've talked-- I think our wives are probably pretty similar. I look forward to the day we can all sit down together. But my wife is so focused on her mission of working with children and bringing light and literacy and numeracy into children's lives.

[00:11:05] She does not follow any of it. It could be 1850 for all she cares. She has no idea. She goes to bed and she's like, "I'm so excited to get up tomorrow and do my job." It's amazing to me. I never even knew people were like that, anybody was even like that. But she couldn't care less.

[00:11:24] And so that contrast and mirror for me is powerful because it's like, oh wow, I'm maybe a little too interested at times, especially as this thing has unfolded and we've realized how many of these stories aren't even real at all anyway.

[00:11:40] Luke: So your wife's not tracking the adrenochrome market?

[00:11:44] Daniel: No, no, she's not, man. She's not. And you know what she tells me about it, which is really interesting, she's very aware of this darkness. She very clearly works in the light, but her feeling is anytime she takes any of that in, it's like dropping a little drop of ink into here and now it's muddy and murky, the whole glass.

[00:12:13] So her thing is like, if I look at any of that, how do I go face these children? These children need me to be-- she's upstairs teaching right now. She needs to have the clearest signal possible. And the way she does that is she maintains a really tight container where she doesn't let any of that negativity in.

[00:12:31] And at first I'd be like, oh, that's the ostrich with its head in the sand metaphor, or whatever. But over time I've realized, no, it's way more powerful than that. It's like she just doesn't let the enemy touch her so that she can bring nothing but pure light. Whereas I was at Kripalu a couple of weeks ago in Massachusetts.

[00:12:49] I got to give some talks there. I scare people. You give me a couple of hours on stage, I shake people up. And I had one girl sum up my talks as it's too late to be pessimistic. I thought, "Oh, I've never heard that. That's really good."

[00:13:07] Luke: That's good.

[00:13:08] Daniel: Because that is my vibe. And so I always want to bring people's awareness to what's happening. But I think there's something to be said for just keeping the signal perfectly crystal clear and unincluded. Both approaches are important. I think we need both kinds of people.

[00:13:28] Luke: I agree. I used to have a shirt that said, "Don't fight the darkness. Make the light brighter."

[00:13:34] Daniel: Mm-hmm. Yes.

[00:13:36] Luke: I don't know that I've lived that that well because I'm drawn to the subversive, and like you, I think I have this instinct to pursue what's true. I want to know what's true.

[00:13:51] Daniel: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:51] Luke: And so to know what's true sometimes requires wading through the lies. It's like refining my discernment and my truth meter and my intuition. And sometimes I have to look at things that I believe probably aren't true or aren't the whole truth to navigate my way through and learn how to be more discerning.

[00:14:14] Daniel: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:15] Luke: Because I know what is true, which is the light. But I've also been duped--

[00:14:22] Daniel: I don't know. Do you not think--

[00:14:23] Luke: --and misled before.

[00:14:25] Daniel: There's things that masquerades light. And that's what's challenging too. A lot of things that are pretty dark masquerade themselves as light. And that's something that we have to be, I think, very careful of. Because boy, it's just not that clear.

[00:14:42] I wish it was so simple. I think if it was really simple, we wouldn't be dealing with any of this. I think there's this thing that's really on my mind right now. I've been thinking about this since the middle of the lockdowns and stuff. You remember when the US government started to basically come out and be like, "Aliens.” We're all locked up and everything.

[00:15:07] And they're like, "There's aliens too." And you're like, "Wait a second." They were like, "Oh yeah, these UAPs." You remember all that? And I've been asking this question to people for a while. "Hey, what's scarier to you?" Just rhetorically, what's scarier to you? That, oh, there's actually UFOs visiting Earth that are piloted by alien or interdimensional beings, or that your government's telling you that and it's not true?

[00:15:38] Because I don't know which of those two things would be more shocking and actually more dangerous. It's like both of those are pretty mind blowing. Either one is pretty severe. And it's not-- boy, I don't have any way to validate one or the other perspective.

[00:16:02] Only one of those two things can be true. It's like either they're lying and that means, oh, we're in real deep here if they're lying about that. And if they're telling the truth, whoa, we're in real deep here. You know what I mean? We're facing stuff like that. And that's just one example of the kind of thing.

[00:16:22] So it's like, like you, I want to know the truth so bad, but you know how it is, man. You could spend the next six days in YouTube wormhole and never really arrive at anything because it's everybody repeating the same stuff that everybody else is saying, all cannibalizing each other's content. And you're like, "What are the sources here?"

[00:16:43] You end up with all of these supposed insiders who are sharing limited information and they never tell you what you want to hear. And you never see the thing. They never show you. And so we're in this moment now where we're being actually presented with ideas, we have no real way to vet.

[00:17:05] And it's getting very confusing because these things are massively existential. When you and I were growing up, it was like the '90s. Didn't have to face anything like that. Everything was pretty straightforward and simple. It's like, do you want the sloppy Joe or the hamburger? It's like, was that really simple. Now it's getting confusing. It's like, oh, are there aliens, or is my government pretending there's aliens? Both of those are real weird to me.

[00:17:40] Luke: I can tell you right now, I'm much more afraid of any and all form of government than I am any extraterrestrials. Just based on history it's like who's killed more humans? Any form of government. Another thing that's interesting about that, I watched this disclosure film the other night.

[00:18:01] I forget what channel it's on, but it's the new one. Rogan was talking about it and stuff. There's some, it seems like legitimate whistleblowers, Air Force people, a lot of highly credentialed, legitimate people talking about things they've seen and how the government has been suppressing it and hiding it.

[00:18:19] And there's these black ops intelligence agencies and contractors, military contractors that then they FOIA proof information and just the way all of this stuff's been hidden. And it seems verifiable that there's things happening. But as I zoomed out, it was like still the meta perspective of the whole idea was that from the government and even the whistleblowers to an extent, is that it's about national security and the competition for technology between this country and that country.

[00:18:57] The whole thing, it presupposes that these other life forms or entities or whatever they are, that they're a threat. And there's not even the consideration that actually maybe they're babysitting us. It's like the reason they're hanging out around nuclear sites and military sites is they're watching going, "Dude, you guys are at the edge here."

[00:19:20] I'm sure, if there are these beings, they're probably in all of duality, benevolent and malevolent. There's probably some dark and some light, but it skews toward this, it's a scary thing. Rather than, wow, maybe these are archangels coming to actually help us.

[00:19:38] Just interesting the way that it's framed from a fearful or always tied to a military aspect. It's like this competitive thing. And I'm going, "What about the treaty for Antarctica in 1959? It's like, oh, all these countries were really at war. We really hate each other? How come we've all agreed on this one thing?

[00:20:01] Daniel: I call bullshit on all these whistleblowers, dude. What's up with them halfway through being like, "Oh, I can't say that. I'd have to go into a skiff to say that." You're like, "But are you a whistleblower or do you have limited information you're allowed to put out? Why does it seem like you have sanctioned information?"

[00:20:19] That sounds like you're a Fed and you've been put into the public eye to share this limited amount of information. Because if you were a whistleblower, you'd just say it. Why won't they just say it? Seems like an op to me. What do you know about the Collins Elite? You know anything about that?

[00:20:42] Luke: No.

[00:20:43] Daniel: Dude, there's some crazy stuff. You remember when Tucker started coming out about this and he was like, "Oh, they're demons." And you start to hear that perspective. Did you ever hear Tucker Carlson say that, like, oh, they're just demons? And in the Evangelical Church, you get that just like, oh, it's just demons. And I was like, "Okay, guys, a little simple." I feel like it's probably more complicated than that.

[00:21:05] So I was always like, "Where--" but some of the people who out here say that, I really trust their perspective. So I would want to dig in deeper on like, where are they getting that from? Took me a long time to chase that thread down because I'm chasing 1,000 threads of a bunch of different things.

[00:21:20] I make a TV show. I do all these other things, but I traced that back to a book by a guy, I think Nick Redfern, I believe is his name. And he wrote this book called Final Warning, and it's about conversations he had with insiders, that whole thing, about a group inside the government that called themselves the Collins Elite.

[00:21:45] They believed that these entities are not extraterrestrial, but interdimensional and that they are here because of the ritual magic that Aleister Crowley started and that L. Ron Hubbard and Jack Parsons did in the Babalon Working. I'm sure you're very familiar with that, because that's all the roots of NASA.

[00:22:11] So those guys, especially Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard, they spent two weeks on the Babalon Working, trying to birth their antichrist moon child. If people don't know about this stuff, it's like, you got to dig in on this a little bit. Because JPL at the root of NASA, that whole thing was mixed with satanic sex magic, ritual sex magic.

[00:22:37] That all came through Aleister Crowley, who was the one who first contacted that being called Lam, which is essentially the first time we see that grey alien head, is a being that Alistair Crowley summoned interdimensionally through his ritual satanic magic. So anyway, the Collins Elite believed that those rituals had opened portals that were allowing these beings to start pouring in.

[00:23:02] And they believed that all of it was a deception, that these beings-- because you got to ask yourself, if they're super advanced beings, why do they cause so much trauma and destroy people's lives? So it's like they have the technology to travel here from distant star systems, but they haven't figured out how to not traumatize you, and they got to do like probe your anus and stuff.

[00:23:31] We've talked about this before, but do you remember like the era where it was like cyborgs were going to have wounds with like wires sticking out and stuff? And eventually we realized like we hadn't thought of wearables yet. Hadn't occurred to us that you could have wearable devices that could interact with your brainwave.

[00:23:46] For us in the '80s, it was like the borg would have holes drilled in their head and it'd be tubes and wires sticking out. Now we're like, "Oh yeah, you just get infected and die." You just wear wearables. We've advanced in our thinking. So they're that far advanced, but they don't know how to abduct us and not destroy our lives?

[00:24:04] That part doesn't make any sense to me. And then the idea that there's all these different ones, there's the reptilians and the tall whites and the grays and all these things, it's like, okay, all that's going on and they go through our government and they don't just reveal themselves?

[00:24:22] They talk to our government? It's like people have said like, "Oh, you're going to get rid of an ant's nest in your backyard. You're going to first contact the Queen ant and have a conversation with her before you spray raid on it? Probably not, right? So what are they doing, and why are they traumatizing people?

[00:24:40] Because I've got people in my life whose lives were destroyed by the-- I don't know what those experiences are, but they destroy people's lives. So it doesn't seem like a good thing that they're doing. But they lie to people. They install cover memories in people. They have one faith in particular they always want to undermine.

[00:25:00] It's like very interesting what these so-called beings are doing. And also, it's interesting that in the past the story was they were from Mars, and then we got real clear. Mars is a rocky, deserted landscape. It's like, oh, well they're from Venus. And then we're like, "Wait, Venus is inhospitable."

[00:25:18] Well, now they're from Alpha Centauri. They're getting further and further away as we learn what's on these different planets. You know what I mean? The story keeps changing and changing and changing. It's like, oh, they can't just communicate with us. What's going on here? Why is it this way?

[00:25:34] I think these beings are deceiving us. Whatever they are, I don't think that they're what they're presenting themselves as. So I followed that thread and I arrived at some really interesting ideas, people who believe that all the phenomena, bigfoot, elves and fairies, and aliens-- because I've always been like, can all those things exist?

[00:25:59] And what I've kind of been presented with now is the idea that all of that stuff may be manifestations of a single phenomenon. And that that single phenomenon might not have our best interests in mind. It's trickster. And I am starting to think that that's probably it.

[00:26:18] And I think our government's involvement in ritual magic is really weird, man, very weird. I'm sure you've dug in on this because you seem very familiar with what I'm talking about with Jack Parsons, the Babalon Working, but I'm sure you know too some of the CIA programs. Everybody's been hearing about the remote viewing thing that they were doing, the CIA was doing.

[00:26:42] And now people know about MKUltra, but I think there's another one, MKOFTEN. Some of that stuff gets real weird. They were doing some real weird stuff. And what you find basically-- okay, I'll finish on this-- it doesn't make sense that the Alien thing and the occult thing interface. Why do they interface?

[00:27:03] Why can occult this summon UFOs? If they're aliens from far away, why does Ritual Magic summon them? It's starting to lean towards the like, "Hey, wait a second. Maybe these are entities that need us way more than we need them."

[00:27:23] Luke: That's very interesting. I think the vast majority of people, unless they're rabbit hole red pillers or black pillers understand the level of metaphysical interest and activity of the parasite class, of the governments and the institutions that they create, and the intelligence agencies. You got to dig a bit to see that these people aren't atheists.

[00:27:54] Daniel: No.

[00:27:54] Luke: They believe in something. It's just clearly not the good thing.

[00:28:00] Daniel: That's what's so crazy, bro, is that there's a war between good and evil, and the masses have been convinced that none of that exists. So they've been fed a paradigm that seems to be breaking down from the edges and crumbling inward. You know what I mean? People's comfortable worldview of everything just being-- well, I say comfortable. Really, I never found it comfortable.

[00:28:28] First, I've always found it very nihilistic. What's the purpose and meaning? And I found the basic scientific paradigm absurd. The idea that you could have entropy in the face of entropy seems just ridiculous to me. So everything in the universe is decaying, but the only thing that isn't decaying is life, which is written out of a language we call DNA, a written code.

[00:28:57] And it's self-improving in the face of a decaying universe. So the second law of thermodynamics is that everything tends towards disorder except life forms, which tend to higher and higher and higher and higher forms of order. In the face of that, one of the things you'll hear in Christian apologetics is it's a whirlwind goes through a junkyard and assembles a fully functional 747 jet.

[00:29:24] That's like the Big Bang leads to life. Seems preposterous on its face, but everybody's been in this paradigm. But that's what I'm saying. So when you start to have the government tell you that, "Whoa, these UAPs here." You are like, "Okay, wait a second."

[00:29:41] Well, my comfortable paradigm is under threat now, whether you like it or not. It's under threat, and is crumbling. And like you said, people in the know are not neutral in this battle. They're on a side or the other typically. Yeah, I agree with that.

[00:30:04] Luke: We spoke maybe a year ago or something, and I had bought my first Bible and went to church a few times. Actually, we enjoyed it. It was just crowded. The one we liked was crowded. There was nowhere to sit. It was super-hot at that time in Texas. But it's like something you spoke to earlier is these forces, these entities, the ones that seem to be anti-life and anti-human, they're all anti-Jesus.

[00:30:37] And I thought of this, what is it? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's like they drove me toward to understand more of the teachings of Jesus, although I find the Bible a little difficult to read. It's like I'm much more drawn to that now because these forces seem to be very antithetical to the Christ figure, or that consciousness, that light.

[00:31:05] It's like, I'm not going toward where the moth is slithering off too. I'm going to lean more into that light if that's the thing that they're trying to destroy, which historically is verifiable.

[00:31:18] Daniel: He's the most likable being of all time.

[00:31:21] Luke: I know very little about history, but what I do know about history is that there's been a lot of attempts to stamp those believers out. So it's interesting.

[00:31:29] Daniel: Yeah. It's funny. I don't think people fully appreciate too the impact. We have such romantic ideas about the past, about history. It's very romantic. I had them for sure. I was so guilty of the-- they used to call it the myth of the noble savage. I think that's probably not really appropriate to say anymore.

[00:31:50] But there was that idea of that perfect native culture where everything-- what I've learned over the years is that that's only like one aspect and that there's a whole aspect we've stopped looking at, which is the incredible interpersonal violence and sacrifice that was taking place all over the world, and Christianity really stopped that.

[00:32:15] But it also led to women's rights. It led to hospitals. It led to orphanages. All these things that we just assume people had figured out, it's like, no, all that came through the teachings of Christ. But it is interesting how aliens never pull people aside and tell them that, "Oh, you've really been misunderstanding the teachings of Buddha."

[00:32:34] That's not what he meant. Or like, "Oh, you really misunderstood Mohammad." That's not what he meant. It's always Jesus. It's funny. So I don't know. Yeah, I think we're engaged in something that is so-- people have been convinced there's just no way that this could actually be happening, even though they're watching it.

[00:32:49] I sent you that article yesterday, not even an article, a whole video from CNN. Exorcisms are on the rise all over the United States. Requests for exorcisms. I'm like, CNN is covering the extreme rise in exorcisms in the United States? CNN?

[00:33:13] First of all, the fact that any news outlet wants to cover, that's a little weird. But CNN wants to cover that? I would say that's a pretty secular news association, if not really on the other side. That's just shocking to me. So it's all coming out and everybody's seeing it roll out.

[00:33:34] How about this? When you realize that your country is leading the world in child pornography and exploitation, the sale of children and the disappearance of children, and that now we're starting to understand, oh, they're being trafficked, and it seems like it's the wealthy and elite of our country that are involved in it.

[00:33:58] Okay, for me, that's confirmation of what we're talking about. But we're still acting like, no, this stuff's all just normal. Oh, yeah. Aliens and child pedophile rings and that the government's mixed up in and sex magic rituals to begin our space program and like, oh yeah, no, all there was was a big bang. We're good. Everybody go back to work.

[00:34:26] Luke: Oh, that's so funny, dude. Yeah, I feel like we're at a precipice. Do you feel like we're at a great turning? I'm sure there have been many times in history where people felt that. You might have felt that in 1970. But it's like, I don't know. I've been around for a while, and I think we're of a similar generation. Pretty close.

[00:34:50] Daniel: You're Gen X too, right? Obviously you are.

[00:34:54] Luke: Yeah.

[00:34:55] Daniel: You're not a boomer.

[00:34:56] Luke: I'm 55. Yeah.

[00:34:58] Daniel: Ooh, so are you a boomer?

[00:35:01] Luke: No, I'm a Gen X. Yeah.

[00:35:03] Daniel: Yeah, that's what I--

[00:35:04] Luke: I was going to Lollapalooza in my 20s. I think that's what makes me Gen X. Yeah. But it's like we are an interesting generation, I think, and one that's never been here before because we lived a life, pre-digital, pre-internet, and we're also now adapting to the world of Internet, AI, technology.

[00:35:30] So it's like no other generation had both of those. You were either back in the day when the reality consensus was somewhat universal, at least in the West. And then you have kids born after the Internet age. They will never know the world that we knew. So it's really interesting that--

[00:35:51] Daniel: Could you argue that we're the last generation of humans, real humans, natural humans? Because if everybody after is essentially a cyborg in the sense that they have outsourced their memory and minds to machines-- because like I said before, we're never going to have the cyborg thing where you have your skin cut open and there's stuff sticking out of it.

[00:36:17] That whole idea is gone. But what we do have is a device we carry around that you cannot keep your hands off of, you cannot keep your eyes out of, and that does almost all your thinking for you. And you're connecting and you're communicating. It's nothing like it was in Star Trek where it looked cool and, oh, I'd want to have that.

[00:36:37] It's like the opposite. Because when they had that kind of stuff, or when you saw Dick Tracy with his watch he could talk into, it all looked cool. He just used it when he wanted to. He was never addicted to it. It wasn't just destroying his life. It wasn't destroying his marriage and his friends and his family and his kids.

[00:36:55] It was all just like a spoon or a knife or something. But now we know the reality of these things. So if we're the last generation-- I'm not making the argument that we're the last generation of natural humans, but everybody born after us has been born into a world where something like an oracle exists that everyone has access to.

[00:37:20] When you look back in history, let's say like the Oracle of Delphi, it's not like any peasant would go consult the oracle. The elites would. But now everybody can consult the oracle. Everybody is consulting. Everyone is bowing down in worship.

[00:37:38] And bro, I know I've said this to you before, but let's just look at what is the symbol on it again? Oh, it's the apple with a bite. It's the forbidden fruit of the knowledge of good and evil that destroyed humanity. And we're all walking around with it in our pocket. Really, really interesting time.

[00:37:57] So yeah, I think you could make an argument, I think for sure you're right, we're the last of something ancient and everybody born after is different, going to be different. And to your original question, do I think we're on a precipice? Yes. But we're also at the end of an age. So that's really powerful when you think about it.

[00:38:18] So the all through the New Testament, for instance, the disciples say to Jesus, they go, what will be the sign of your coming and the sign of the end of the age? And that age word is the Greek aeon, A-E-O-N. Remember Aeon Flux on MTV? Remember that cartoon? We're at an aeon flux.

[00:38:45] So the beginning of the age of Pisces-- if you get into any of that crazy astronomy stuff, what's going on is that the earth has a backwards rotation on its axis that changes the rising and setting sun on the vernal equinox very slowly over the course of time.

[00:39:01] And we precess backwards through the zodiac so that where the sun rises and sets on the Equinox is changing ever so slightly every year, but backwards like a clock turning backwards. So where normally you would go-- our year goes from Pisces at the end of a cycle, at the end of the year into Aries.

[00:39:24] But it's going backwards with the precession of the equinox. Now remember, that's what all the ancient sites around the world are tracking, is the equinoxes. All these standing stones, I'm sure you've been to some of these sites around the world. I know you've been to Peru.

[00:39:42] These people were obsessed with tracking the precession of the equinox. This was one of the greatest mathematical and astronomical secrets that these people had. This is antediluvian knowledge. There was an era on the earth that people have chosen to forget about, but we have some structures around that bear testament to a very mathematically and astronomically aware people.

[00:40:10] And that knowledge was encoded into a lot of those structures. And the beginning of the age of Pisces, which is the age we've lived through, it's been the last 2000 years. If you just Google it, like when did the age of Pisces begin? 1 AD. We are coming toward the transition. We're in the aeon flux right now between Pisces and Aquarius.

[00:40:39] These changes in ages have been dramatic all through history. This is what people were tracking. We're leaving an age and entering into another one. And Christ kept talking about the end of the age. Everybody was like, "Oh, he is coming back any day. He is coming back any day." It was at the end of the age. And now we're reaching the end of the age.

[00:41:00] So the clock is winding down at least on our age. And so whatever happens next is not going to be like what came before. We are entering into a radically, radically different world. And we all know that. We can all see that. It's just like, how much do you want to let yourself see, I think right now.

[00:41:21] Luke: Yeah, I think the prevalence of technology and information and that oracle, you can open up ChatGPT on your phone and just fucking know anything in two seconds or at least a version of the thing.

[00:41:37] Daniel: You'll know something.

[00:41:38] Luke: Unless you figured out how to jailbreak ChatGPT, which is pretty fun. But it's like the powers and energies that have existed in the shadows for so long through all of the deception are becoming more transparent. It's like people are seeing through PSYOPs faster, even though it's becoming clear, to me much more recently, that a lot of the alternative media is compromised and gatekept.

[00:42:11] There's a lot of limited hangouts. But despite the deception of the mainstream media, the infiltration of the alternative media, there's just too many people asking questions and sharing what they find. I don't think the cat can be put back in the bag.

[00:42:28] Daniel: You think that the cat wants to be put back in the bag, or does the cat now want to be seen?

[00:42:36] Luke: I think the cat wants to be seen.

[00:42:38] Daniel: Does the cat want to be worshiped or just seen?

[00:42:44] Luke: I don't know.

[00:42:46] Daniel: It's going to be interesting to see. I don't think that they can keep it hidden any longer, like you said. I think you're really onto that. And I think that the groundwork for it to be unmasked has been done. So the thing could not show itself-- whatever's forcing itself into our reality-- I cannot stop with the Lord of the Rings, analogies because it's just so good.

[00:43:19] Think about the Eye of Sauron. And it's just that disembodied eye on the tower. It's watching everything. We know that's going on right now. We're in a panopticon. Everything is being watched. I'm sure you've seen some of this stuff. It's pretty amazing how much the satellites are actually watching the surface of the earth.

[00:43:38] Almost nothing is going unobserved. Now, they can't see into your house. It doesn't matter because you bring your phone into the house and everything you do in your house is mapped and tracked. So everything's being watched, but the watcher doesn't have a body.

[00:43:58] In Lord of the Rings, you got this eye, and it's trying to manifest its body back. It used to have a body, but the body was destroyed. Thousands of years went by, people forgot, and now no one [Inaudible]. Everything's great. Just hanging out in the shire, drinking beers or whatever.

[00:44:16] But now that eye is starting to call its army forward, and they're manifesting it, and it's forcing itself back into that dimension. And I got this sense that something's forcing itself into our dimension. And it's an intelligence that's so alien and so sophisticated to us.

[00:44:39] When people say that thing of about a conspiracy-- it's so funny talking about this stuff because we're forced to use the language that's been weaponized against us to even talk about it. People aren't that good. They cannot keep those secrets for that long.

[00:44:55] It's like, I agree. We're talking about people. They're all pawns. I think there's a greater intelligence at work here, and it's forcing itself into our reality, and it's getting us to build its body for it. So now we have the disembodied intelligence and we've started to create the physical body, and then we're going to merge those two together.

[00:45:17] But pretty soon with biotech, genetics, and nanotechnology, we're probably going to become the repository for those things. We are containers. You've seen the Bob Lazar stuff on that. I'm sure over the years you've heard that, like, we're containers and, man, I hope that some people really want to stay human.

[00:45:42] I'm going to probably burn some people here with this, so I'm sorry to your listeners, but when I see somebody wearing an Apple watch, I'm like, "Oh, I misunderstood. I thought we all wanted to get more away from this stuff. I didn't think anybody was like, oh no, I want more. I want my text to show up on my body. "

[00:46:00] Because I'm always like, "I want less of this stuff. I hate this thing. I hate my phone." I use it constantly. I'm certainly addicted to it and willing to admit that. I got to keep the thing in black and white just to reduce the dopamine on it.

[00:46:15] Luke: Me too.

[00:46:18] Daniel: But the idea that anybody wants more of it-- I'm watching my friends, people I know that are don't have a lot going on. They just have regular 9-5s and pretty simple lives. Because obviously I know a lot of people with very high-powered lives too, and I could understand more why that person who runs that huge company or why they need to keep abreast of all that stuff.

[00:46:41] But I just know regular people who are like, "No, I want more intrusions into my day to day, and I want it on my body or in my body." I'm like, "Oh, I thought we were on a different wavelength. So it turns out there's a whole bunch of people that want this, which is like-- you know when you think about like all of the septum-pierced, purple hair, angry, aggressive, activist type people?

[00:47:11] I used to call them the joker's henchman because they remind me of the people who work for the Joker in the Batman comics and stuff. They all look part clown, and they're all disfiguring themselves with intentional, ironic ugliness all the time and stuff.

[00:47:27] But now I'm starting to see all those orcs and goblins all bolted together and becoming a twisted version of what humans really are meant to be. Because we are quite beautiful as a species, a really beautiful species. But we're making ourselves uglier, like all those beings that served Sauron to help to bring him into reality because it wants to create an era of darkness on the earth.

[00:47:52] Now, that might all sound really extreme, and then you just start reading the headlines. You're like, "Oh geez, maybe that's happened." I don't know how to see it another way. I have tremendous hope, tremendous hope, but I'd also don't think-- when you're almost to the top of the roller coaster, or maybe at the top of the roller coaster, I don't have hope I don't have to go down it. I just have hope I'm going to survive to the other side.

[00:48:19] But I don't have hope, like, oh, they're going to come with a hot air balloon and take me off of this thing so I don't have to take the ride. We're taking the plunge down the log flume and everybody's going to get wet. That's for sure. That precipice you're talking about, it's like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And then it's like, oh no, it's pretty steep. You can just see over the edge right now. And it's like, oh yeah, we're all about take this ride.

[00:48:45] Luke: I think one of the positive things now is people are becoming disillusioned with the savior fantasy. Because you've seen like a couple of cycles of the presidency here and a lot of people were very hopeful that there outsider was going to come in and do things differently. And that there's these white hats in the background that know everything that's going on. It's like we've been waiting--

[00:49:10] Daniel: We're about to round up all the pedophiles. They're going to clean it all up.

[00:49:14] Luke: Yeah. And once all those people are in prison, then we can get back to the republic, and this kind of thing. And it's like, I wouldn't say I fully felt for that, but there have been signs, I think, just with the mistrust in the media. And a lot of the things that have been exposed. I thought, "Maybe there is something going on here."

[00:49:31] And I think there is, but in a different way. I think now more people are seeing, for example, through the left-right paradigm, the whole psyop, the divide and conquer thing. Conservatives versus liberals, all this bullshit. Meanwhile, the energies or entities or their minions and puppets that you speak to, we're starting to see like, oh wait, no, they got us all down here on the plantation fighting each other.

[00:49:57] And they're spraying our skies with God knows what, and putting this supposed medication in everyone's arms that's killing so many people. It's like, wait, hold up. I think that's a very positive thing, that people are like, are we pro-human or are we not? That's your criteria.

[00:50:18] It is like, are you interested in love and integrity or are you interested in the lack of those qualities? For me, I had a realization a couple of days ago. I've been this way already, but it became so clear to me that I have no space in my life at all for anyone or anything that is out of love or out of integrity.

[00:50:41] It's just became so clear and simple. And most of all within myself, is like any aspects, artifacts of my shadow and weird shit that's not aligned with that has also got to go first and foremost, right?

[00:50:54] Daniel: Yeah, dude.

[00:50:54] Luke: And that's what informs my discernment and my discipline around boundaries and what I will or will not engage with or allow. I think more and more people are coming to that point where it's like, man, if humanity's got a shot, we got to do it for ourselves.

[00:51:12] Daniel: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:13] Luke: There's no one in the physical realm, at least, that's coming to save us.

[00:51:17] Daniel: Yeah. Not a person. Not a person.

[00:51:20] Luke: Yeah, voting harder and voting for the right one, it's like-- all right, here's a question for you out of that. What I've come to see as like, if you could say, what is the problem? Why does humanity keep falling for this over and over and over again and just getting abused and murdered by all of these parasites?

[00:51:38] I think it could be summed up in this superstition we have around statism. We have this deeply seated belief that we need people of authority to make the rules and enforce the rules of society, and that we're incapable of doing it ourselves through cooperation.

[00:52:04] And that there's so many bad people in the world that we need some people to police those bad people, ignoring the fact that the people we're authorizing to do the policing are also people. You know what I mean? So it's like people are bad, so we need someone to control us, basically.

[00:52:24] It was like, oh, okay, who are you going to pick? Some more people? And it seems to be that the worst of us gravitate toward positions of power. My belief is that those people just aren't in touch with their own power. It's like people that are really authentically confident have zero interest in controlling anyone else. It's like people that--

[00:52:47] Daniel: No, there's a lot there though.

[00:52:48] Luke: --feel inherently weak and disempowered are the ones that seem to climb toward positions of power and ridiculous, unnecessary amounts of wealth. They're the predaceous extractive class because they're trying to fill something that they don't have access to. So my thesis is our problem is that we believe we need the government. And they're the actual worst problem we've ever had.

[00:53:19] Daniel: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:20] Luke: No one's responsible for more unnatural death in history than those that we've put into positions of power and submitted our will to.

[00:53:30] Daniel: In every form of it. Because one of the other jokes that's been played on us, you get the right-left paradigm, but obviously you can extrapolate that out further to they love to play the communist capitalist game. I've experienced this and I'm sure you have too.

[00:53:48] You say anything about like, "Oh, I just feel like the corporations are a little--" "What are you? A communist?" You're like, "No, I'm not a communist. I think that Monsanto being allowed to destroy Hawaii sucks." "Oh, what are you? A communist? Free markets. Free markets." You're like, "Okay."

[00:54:07] And I'm sure it's the same way if you are a communist or a hardcore leftist and you're like, "Yeah. But I do think people should probably go out and try to make their own living." "What are you? A capitalist?" So that game is also being perpetrated against this too.

[00:54:23] It's like another one of those false binaries. So I think we have a lot of that. I want to say this piece too, that one of the things that we've realized in this era of so many things becoming, I don't want to say disclosed, but we have eyes on things now that we didn't before, there's obviously been a tremendous amount of blackmail that's been used against anybody who gets into a position of power.

[00:54:49] So if you are a well-meaning-- the honey trap is probably the number one way that they've gotten people. And it's right in front of our faces. This whole Epstein thing, it's like so obvious what that was. This is a black male operation so that as soon as-- you've been in LA and around Hollywood and around famous people probably a lot of your life, so you've seen this.

[00:55:17] I'll speak for myself. I was a nobody kid from an awful life. I experienced extreme hardship and then all of a sudden I got a little bit of notoriety through public speaking and podcasting. It's not like somebody comes to you and goes like, "You're starting to get out there, son. We're going to explain to you what appropriate behavior is."

[00:55:40] It's almost like the opposite. Not on purpose, but people will let you get away with and encourage you to do pretty wild stuff. Obviously we've seen now with the music industry, that's a place in Hollywood where we are like, "There's a lot of weird stuff going on over there."

[00:55:56] So it's intoxicating to have any level of power, and it causes people to behave badly, and that bad behavior becomes blackmail that keeps you from ever being able to speak truth again. So just from my outside view on Trump, for instance-- obviously, I'm not an insider. I don't know, and I'm not following it that closely, but it sure seems like there's certain things he can't say or do.

[00:56:27] And he was pretty bombastic before. But now that he's butted up against a certain issue, he sure seems like he can't speak freely. His hands seem pretty tied. I wonder what it could be about. Hmm. I can't imagine what his weakness would be. Hmm. So obviously there are a lot of people out there that would wish they could confront it because they are in a platform or position of power, but they're compromised.

[00:56:54] So I don't think that everybody in government's always been working intentionally against the will of the people. But I think that they are hands are tied by this incredibly sophisticated-- like I said, you got this highly sophisticated intelligence, this entity, and then all the people who fall underneath who are just people living out their regular days, but acting out the will of their father.

[00:57:23] Whether intentionally or not intentionally or because they're compromised or because they're compromises. A lot of them are compromises. And let's not leave out, it's like, what, one in 15 people is sociopath. That's pretty important knowledge for people to have. If you don't know it, maybe read The Sociopath Next Door or something like that.

[00:57:42] Because it's important to understand that there are people who masquerade as being like you and aren't. And you put those people in power and they not only are willing to harm people, but might enjoy it. And so that's something to consider as well. And then because I got to constantly bring up biblical things, there's just a really interesting thing that happens in the Old Testament, Israel. And I'm not talking about the country of Israel.

[00:58:11] I'm talking about that ancient Hebrews. The whole idea in the Old Testament was that they were going to be a priest class. Their whole nation is supposed to be priests to God. And they don't have a king. They're a nation with no king. And it keeps talking about how they're looking at the nations around them and they're like, "We want a king."

[00:58:38] And God's telling them, "Yeah, but guys, you don't want a king. Trust me, you don't want a king." They're like, "No, we want a king." And He is like, "All right, you want a king? Give you a king." And they get this King Saul. He's the tallest, the most handsome, the most rugged guy. The one that everybody thinks that guy should be king, and turns out to be a tyrant.

[00:58:58] And then the one king God really loves is David. He's small. He's just a shepherd boy. He's slight. He's nothing special. He's the king with a good heart. We always want to elect a strong man. That guy should be the king. And it's like, those are the worst kings.

[00:59:17] And the thing about kings, it's so boring, so endless-- and when I say kings, I'm talking very metaphorically here. I mean all these people, strong men, cult, the personality, maybe legitimately kings, maybe presidents, maybe prime ministers. But all these people who rule, they're so boring because they're all the same. It's the same thing over and over and over again.

[00:59:43] I think why they hate Jesus is because he's the only one who's different. He's the only king that's different. There's no other king like that who flips the whole equation on his head. Oh, you want to be powerful? Then sacrifice everything. You want to lead? Then get down on your knees and wash the feet of the people who you're leading.

[01:00:02] You want to be a friend? Then die for the people who you love. Just stuff that everybody's like, "No, I don't really want to do that." And we're talking about like a wild man. No home, walking around barefoot through Judea, something like 30,000 miles in his ministry.

[01:00:21] His cousin wears a camel robe, lives on honey and locust in the wilderness. These are two wild men. Totally antithetical to what civilization wants, like living outside, wild people. Sharing a message that's just so-- the rest of the world, every other place you go, everywhere you look, it's the opposite message. Let's pick that strong guy.

[01:00:45] He should lead us. And then it's always the same thing. Despotism over-- no, it's so boring and dull to me. The Trump thing, what you were alluding to before, it was like, oh, this guy's going to save us. He's going to save the republic. It looked like it for a while.

[01:01:03] It seemed believable to-- if you hadn't been programmed on the opposite side to where you're like, that guy's the enemy of everything, to the caricature level. But if you were on the level of like, oh yeah, maybe he could-- it seemed plausible. And now it seems ridiculous.

[01:01:22] Now it's so obvious, like, oh, it's just more of the same thing. It's just the same thing. Certainly didn't turn out to be as bad as they were trying to say he was. That's for sure. But it didn't turn out to be nearly what people hoped he would be either. It's just like, what a joke, the whole thing?

[01:01:41] Luke: So you know, probably more than anyone I know about history and ancient cultures. And going back to this idea that I suspect might hold some truth is the belief in hierarchy, the belief in cast. And back in the early days when I'd hear you talk, you were talking about the advent of agriculture, right?

[01:02:09] That's the point at which you started to need leaders and a military, a police force. You could stay in one place and grow food and have livestock, and therefore you didn't have to move your resources around all the time as the hunter gatherers did before they figured out agriculture. So you would be stockpiling shit.

[01:02:28] Daniel: I don't know if I'd say figured it out. I don't want to say figured out. Maybe got forced into, but yeah, go ahead.

[01:02:33] Luke: Oh, okay. Okay, cool. Let's go with that.

[01:02:35] Daniel: I don't know that it was figured out. They couldn't think of it before. They're like, "What do these seeds do anyway? I have no idea what these things are. You know what I mean? These are ecological geniuses.

[01:02:48] Luke: Fair, fair. Okay. So the point I'm getting to is it seems like around that time, at that renaissance is when people amassed power that they didn't necessarily deserve. And you start to get the royal bloodlines and people that were held on some pedestal and given power and acquiesce based on essentially nothing, based on falsehood.

[01:03:18] It's like, is that around the time when we started looking to a savior, a leader and stopping self-governance? Was there ever a time with hunter-gatherer people in different cultures around the world where it was more egalitarian and leaders were chosen based on their leadership, not based on surrendering your sovereignty to them? Do you see what I'm saying?

[01:03:44] Daniel: Yeah, yeah.

[01:03:45] Luke: What's your very zoomed out, rough timeline on that? When did we start falling for this psyop that one human being over there is inherently smarter and therefore they need to control the masses? How do we begin to delegate that to someone on false premise?

[01:04:09] Daniel: I'm really in a place of doubt about the timeline anymore. I'm really starting to question if we even know when it is right now. So I want to say that first. I'm going to give you the answer to that, that is the technical answer. But I'm starting to really have some questions about when we are right now. You know what I mean?

[01:04:37] Just a quick example would be my clock right now says 3:18. If I take a sundial outside, it's not 3:18. We're not on natural time. We're on processed time. It's technically called civil time, which means city time or civilization time. And that's not natural time.

[01:04:55] So natural time, we chart with a sundial, and noon, where I live is different than noon 20 miles away. Time is relative to the observer, and everyone knew this until real recently. I think monks invented the first clock. I want to say it was the 1500s or something like that.

[01:05:17] Clocks ushered in a whole new way of charting time. Calendrics has been around a long time too, but never an agreed upon timeline. So we're in a process time state, and I'm not really sure when it is. But the story goes-- again, all these dates are just getting obliterated and pushed back.

[01:05:41] But the general story, if I was an anthropologist and you asked me this and I was going to give you the answer I got in college, the answer would be about 10 to 15,000 years ago, agriculture starts to become a thing. And prior to that, everybody's hunting and gathering.

[01:05:54] And because hunting and gathering provides enough resources for you, but not for huge surpluses of resources for people, in other words, I can't gather enough food with my hands for a whole village of people. I can just get enough for myself. So that means the leader has to gather and hunt as well. Everybody has to participate.

[01:06:15] And the leader is somebody you select to be your final decision maker. But if you don't like their decisions, everybody just laughs at them and walks away. It's not like, no, you'll be put in prison. There are no prisons. That doesn't exist. Everybody's a sovereign. I'm guessing your audience knows what I mean by that because I know you know what that means, what a sovereign actually is.

[01:06:39] And so everybody's sovereign. But that doesn't mean you don't pick somebody to make a decision just because it runs smoother. So that's the egalitarian thing. Men and women are both seen as equal, even though they oversee different aspects of daily life, but both perspectives are considered equally important and valid.

[01:07:03] And everybody's a participant in the activities of survival. So it's not like the guy who's the chief gets to hang out in some giant stick palace that they've built while everybody goes out and gathers and brings him all the tenderloins. That's not what we're talking about here.

[01:07:20] But once there's agriculture-- and agriculture is very interesting. You could basically understand it as the growing of grasses for their seeds. That is what I could distill it down to. Now, of course, we grow lots of things today that aren't grasses, but those aren't our staples.

[01:07:37] Our staple foods are always a grass. So it's rice, wheat, barley, corn. Those are all grasses. So civilizations are built basically on grasses or seeds that are very similar grasses. You can produce so much surplus. Now you have extra food, so to speak to what you were saying.

[01:08:00] Once that extra food's there, now you need somebody to oversee that food, a class of people to protect your nation from other nations that might come try to take that food, somebody who's going to do all the math. So now you've got this administrative class.

[01:08:13] And then you need somebody who rules at the top and it creates that classic hierarchy that you're bringing up. So the answer to your question from the college program is 10 to 15,000 years ago, probably 15,000 years ago. But I think all that's getting crushed.

[01:08:31] I think what we're going to realize is that there's been other big civilizations before. Man, I think I'll say this. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next five to 10 years, but maybe less, discoveries are made that revolutionize our entire understanding of all this. Some ancient vault is opened and we find, oh, okay, here's the proof that this happened.

[01:09:00] But I think that there was advanced civilizations before and a lot of the people we think of as hunter-gatherers that were like, "Oh, they must have been--" Let's say here in North America. We're learning now North America, it wasn't just hunter gatherers here, massive civilizations, city states here, massive.

[01:09:21] Connected city states that connected all the way down to the ones in Mesoamerica and the ones ultimately in Peru, in South America, and even in the Amazon, as you now know. Turns out that the whole thing is basically a giant feral farm.

[01:09:35] The Amazon jungle is not a natural jungle. It turns out with the lidar, we're like, "Oh, the whole thing was populated, people, terrorists." I think the hunter-gatherers are really probably the survivors of the last cataclysmic event. And we think, oh, that's the original people.

[01:09:55] And it's like, no, those probably people that survived what happened here. There was a pretty significant cataclysmic event and not much remains, but some of these things, like Sacsayhuaman in Peru, which I'm sure you-- I think you said you spent some time up there.

[01:10:12] Luke: No, I was in Chavin.

[01:10:15] Daniel: Okay. Man, that those are ruins just outside of Cusco. My goodness. You see that building, you're like, "These structures," you're like, "How old are these?" They certainly weren't built by the Inca. You see a layer of Spanish building. Underneath it is a layer of Inca building, and underneath that is something that you're like, "Who knows who built that?"

[01:10:39] The Inca didn't know who built that. We see this kind of thing in the pyramids. We see this kind of thing all over the world, obviously. So I think that the hunter-gatherers might have been a lot of people that survived that. And interestingly, there's a story that I will simplify because everywhere you go in the world, there's a different variant on the story.

[01:11:02] But the basic of the story is the same. Everywhere it goes, there was a giant flood. Only a few people survive. Then celestial beings come and teach the people technology and give them all kinds of hidden information that they then use to build civilization. And what's interesting is the only variant I'm aware of on that story that tells it differently is in the Book of Enoch. Familiar with that?

[01:11:35] Luke: Yeah. It's been on my to read list for 10 years, and I haven't gotten to it yet.

[01:11:39] Daniel: Real potent. In that story, those beings that come to teach the people, all those secrets are not good beings. Everywhere else in the world, they're the gods. In the book of Enoch, they're fallen ones. Their job was to watch over humanity, but instead they come and dittle humanity. So that's what I think's happened.

[01:12:02] Why are we doing all this? It's like being molested in a way. If you think about when somebody's molested as a child, they're being exposed to something that they're way too young to understand. Human sexuality's not for kids to understand and participate in. It's up to parents how they want to expose their kids to it as far as information, but it's not for kids to participate in.

[01:12:33] And if you cause a child to participate in that, you'll create trauma that will unravel their future in really negative ways. The number of people this has happened to is so startlingly high. Can we put a pin in that? I want to come back to that because that part really gets to me.

[01:12:55] Luke: I'm one of them.

[01:12:57] Daniel: Okay. Numbers are crazy, right? If you're in a room full of people, it's like at least half of the people in there probably have that story. Why I want to put a pin on that is because it's like, who are these people who are doing it? They're the people all around us. That is just really disturbing to me.

[01:13:16] I want to believe that it's like a bunch of like evil goth, black clad satanists somewhere that are doing that. It's like, no. It's like people you know that you just don't know they do that to kids. Because nothing else makes sense because it happens so frequently that it has to be-- anyway, so in the Book of Enoch, there's this group of angelic beings called the Watchers, and their job is essentially to watch over humanity, but they decide they want to come down and actually try to usurp the human birthright.

[01:13:46] I'm going to cobble together a bunch of biblical stuff to give this concept. The concept is earth belongs to us. People get really burned of-- in Genesis, it says that humans have dominion over earth, and new-age people hate that because they're like, "Oh, dominion. You want to control everything. You think that we are here to just control and destroy, and we just have the right to do whatever we want."

[01:14:10] It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It doesn't mean that. That's an abuse of that. But we have dominion. The earth is for us. But beings wanted to take it from us. And in a long plan to take it from us, they needed to usurp us genetically because it's a genetic inheritance.

[01:14:31] So they come down and they mix themselves with us, and what they want to do is present themselves as gods. They ultimately want to try to take control of our dominion. They're from somewhere else. They want to own the earth, and they're going to try to do that and you surplus genetically.

[01:14:50] And from the biblical perspective, if you ask like-- because you mentioned going to church. The average evangelical Christian, it's like play school to me sometimes. I hate to say that, but it's very simple understanding of this stuff. So they'll have this perspective of like, well, the people had become so bad that God wanted to destroy it with a flood.

[01:15:13] It's like, it's not why-- is because these beings had genetically altered us and infused themselves with us and created this other race of giants, the Nephilim, who-- okay, so they're called the Nephilim in the Christian and Hebrew cosmology. They're called the Titans in the Greek cosmology.

[01:15:39] They're the gods of Rome. They're the gods of the Maya. They're the gods of the Aztec. They're the gods of the Native Americans. They're the gods of China. They are the ones with the divine right to rule the serpent people, the dragons of China. They're the ones who've traced their bloodlines all the way to today because they believe they have a blood lineage that connects them to those beings who they infuse their genetics with.

[01:16:05] That's why they think they have a right to rule. And what they want to do is try to usurp our realm. This is our realm. But we're turning it over to them in every decision we make, where we let them damage us psychologically, sexually, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. We're giving our dominion over to them.

[01:16:22] We're giving them permission. The vampire can't cross your threshold unless you invite them in. These beings can't come here and do this unless we invite them in. Every time people want a channel, every time people want to an automatic write, every time they want to go Ouija board seance, two-week long Babalon Working sex ritual with L. Ron Hubbard and Jack Parsons, that's saying, "Hey, I want you to come here. You're invited in."

[01:16:50] And so this is the return of the gods at the end of the age that's happening right before our eyes, man. It's really wild, powerful stuff. And every tradition has it that these beings are coming back, but they're the good guys. And I would like to say, "No, no, no, no, no, guys."

[01:17:09] Look at the fruits. Look at the fruits. What do you see here? Is this stuff look like it's yielding healthy fruit? Or does it look like we're on the verge of species-wide suicide? We're losing our ability to reproduce. We have so much plastic in our bodies right now that all of us have been toxified.

[01:17:34] We're spraying pesticides from the sky. We've already had a whole nuclear war. We called nuclear testing, where we detonated 2,000 nuclear weapons in the world and in our seas and underground and in space and in the ionosphere. We're disrupting and dysregulating every aspect of our planet.

[01:17:54] It's like a suicide. Because I think there's beings that want our realm, and it's ours. And all we have to do is just say no, because they need our permission. It's like we're giving them permission. So I know that's a really weird answer to like, how long have we been doing the agricultural hierarchy? But what I've come to think is that the origins of agriculture are in slavery. That's why we start farming to essentially feed the slaves.

[01:18:30] Luke: As crazy as some of that may sound to some people, it makes really good sense to me. I don't know. Am I weird? Yeah, I'm on board

[01:18:41] Daniel: You're pretty weird too.

[01:18:42] Luke: I think the term used, the right to rule, that's what I was trying to articulate before. It's like, how did we get duped into believing in that as a concept?

[01:18:53] Daniel: But you must have noticed that they always trace their bloodlines, and there's always something to do with dragons and serpents in their bloodline. Right?

[01:19:04] Luke: Oh, man, look at all the royal family emblems from all over the world. At least medieval on, it's all that.

[01:19:13] Daniel: China too, the dragons. Yeah. So what are we talking about here, and why do they have something in their blood, and why do they inbreed with themselves or breed only with each other to try to preserve something in their blood? What is it that they think-- I don't know if any of this is real or not, but what I do know is that they believe that it's real and that they believe that they have a divine right to rule over us. And that, they trace way, way back.

[01:19:43] And they keep it in their mystery religion, secret societies. That's where they keep all of this occultic knowledge. Because after the deluge or whatever the cataclysmic event, that knowledge has been stored in these mystery schools. And now they're all around us.

[01:20:08] This is one of those weird things where it's like every town has a secret lodge where all the wealthy powerful elites get together and do secret rituals where they do occultic play acting. Have you ever seen what these rituals actually look like? It's hilarious because it's like kids' play.

[01:20:29] Luke: Dude, it's so funny that you brought that up, the interconnectivity of consciousness. Last night, it's like-- I like watching TV just as a pastime, just to go brain dead for a bit. It's so difficult to find anything on TV that's not a psyop or just super toxic, which I'm drawn to the serial killer documentaries.

[01:20:54] It's just like, ooh, yeah, I want to know. I want to solve the crime. And I'm learning. It's not good for me to watch that kind of dark shit. Why would I put my energy into that? But anyway, last night I was drawn to one that was like inside the Freemasons. And I was like, "What? How did they let this on Netflix or Amazon?"

[01:21:11] I was like, "There's no way the powers that be, that controlled the media and these channels is going to allow a documentary about a secret societies." And I was like, "Okay, I'll check it out." I only made it 15, 20 minutes in. It was a total puff piece. I was like, "Oh--"

[01:21:28] Daniel: Did they have any footage that they show inside the rituals?

[01:21:35] Luke: I've seen some of that, not on this TV show. I said to Alyson, I was watching. I was getting so pissed. I'm like, "These people that were being interviewed, of course they're not saying who their God is. They're pretending like it's a Christian thing, but it's like they're not really saying exactly what they believe in-- is very ambiguous and vague in terms of like what their principles are and all this.

[01:22:05] So I'm going, "This is suss as hell." But as I was just reading the energy of the masons that were being interviewed, back to what I said earlier, that we're all just very weak. They're very weak. They don't have an inherent sort of life force or power. It's just like the kind of people that you would never trust out of a legitimate strength.

[01:22:29] Daniel: Or to keep secrets.

[01:22:30] Luke: But what I said to Alyson-- I was getting so annoyed. I'm like, "I can't believe we let these renaissance fair cosplay fucking nerds run the world." I'm like, "These are weak, decrepit nerds." I'm like, "How did they figure out how to control the 99% of the population?"

[01:22:50] Daniel: One thing that's really fascinating about all of that, and I just want to say from the outset, obviously people are going to hear this and be like, "I know Masons. They're not involved in those secret." It's like, the greeter at Walmart is not in on what's being discussed in the board meeting at the top of all the Walmarts.

[01:23:10] So I don't know how many Walmarts are in the country. There's a lot. And how many employees are at each one? Hundreds and hundreds. And that's a hierarchy that goes, and somewhere there is a boardroom where a bunch of people get together and discuss how Walmart's going to take over the market. And when people go, like, "You just think everything's a conspiracy."

[01:23:33] It's like, a conspire means to breathe together, and it implies people passing information, ideas, and plans. That's what every corporation is. My corporation is a conspiracy, essentially, because I don't present to the public everything that's talked about in our private meetings.

[01:23:57] So obviously at the top of these secret societies is a whole different class of person than Bubba, the guy at the autobody place who goes to the meeting at the lodge in his town who's a low-level mason. I'm not trying to imply that people at that level are involved in this stuff.

[01:24:17] But every one of them who's a third-degree Mason-- you know when you're like really giving it to somebody? They call it giving them the third degree. That's where that comes from. That comes from the Masons.

[01:24:33] Luke: Whoa. I didn't know that.

[01:24:34] Daniel: Okay. But anyway, so when they do that, the whole ritual that they play act, do you know what it's about? Have you seen it, where they sneak a camera or anything?

[01:24:44] Luke: No, not really.

[01:24:45] Daniel: It's about the building of--

[01:24:47] Luke: Yeah, I have seen some of that, but--

[01:24:48] Daniel: It's about the building of the temple in Israel. It's about Solomon and the Solomon's temple, the temple that was built in Israel. So that temple was destroyed by the Babylonians. Another temple was built in Herod's era. That's the temple Jesus actually went into and flipped over the tables and stuff. That temple was destroyed later in 70 AD by the Romans.

[01:25:15] So there's been two temples, but there's a big push for a third one. I'm sure you're aware of this. You can't just put it there because the dome of the rock, the Al-Aqsa Mosque is there. That's the temple mount. So currently Israel owns Jerusalem except for where the temple was, is controlled by Muslims.

[01:25:40] Luke: Oh, interesting.

[01:25:41] Daniel: Jews are not allowed to go up there and pray even, but lately they've been pushing. Have you followed this thing about the red heifers? Are you aware of what's going on there?

[01:25:48] Luke: You're the only person that's ever mentioned it to me in a phone call we had a year ago or something, and I was like, "What?" I had no idea about any of that.

[01:26:01] Daniel: In that Masonic ritual, it's about the guy who was the head builder. I can't think of his name right now. It'll come to me. But anyway, it's about that. And what they play act is the murder of the guy who's building the temple, overseeing the building of the temple. And they play act that.

[01:26:20] Now, there's a major Zionist component to masonry, and there's been a long masonry buildings with stone. And it's tied into the building of the temple. And so there's been a very, very long-term game to try to get another temple. So Judaism, as it existed in the Old Testament, ended after Jesus, because it was a whole ritual sacrifice-based religion.

[01:26:57] So there were sacrificing bulls, sheep, goats, birds. You would have to do all these sacrifices at the festivals. You'd sacrifice things for the cleansing of your sin, all this stuff. Jesus predicted to his disciples that the temple would be torn down. And it was about 40 years after he died, and I believe resurrected.

[01:27:20] So 40 years later, the Romans come in. They destroy the temple. Since then, there's been no temple. The Jews then could not continue to do the sacrifices. So they completely changed the religion and that led to what's called modern day rabbinic Judaism. That was like the Pharisees at the time that Jesus was in all that battle with.

[01:27:42] Those Pharisees became the dominant religious leaders after Jesus' time. And they pivoted Judaism from-- because they didn't have the temple anymore, they turned it into like modern-day rabbinic Judaism. But always there's the hope that they had that they would get the temple back.

[01:28:02] Also, a lot of Christians that believe that they need to have the temple back for Christ to return. I won't get into all that, but that's been a belief for a long time. But that's also woven in with Masonry, which has this whole base concept of building the temple.

[01:28:21] So what's been going on lately is some evangelical Christians in Texas-- let me back up one more step. In order to build the temple, there's a ritual that has to take place where a red heifer, basically an orange colored cow has to be sacrificed, and you need those ashes to purify to build the temple.

[01:28:41] But the cow has to be perfect. It can't have any white hair. It's like all these rules. It has to be perfect. No one can ever have made it do any work. No one can ever have sat on it or saddled it. It can never have been yoked. It can't have two white hairs next to each other. It's got to be a perfectly red heifer.

[01:28:59] Well, they've been seeking this for a long time. It's only happened a few times in history that there's ever been one of these sacrifices. So some evangelical Christians in Texas started raising them. They sent them over to Israel, and when they did, that's when that Hamas attack happened that led to this war we're in right now.

[01:29:19] And you can just search. If you think what I'm saying sounds totally insane, search for Hamas spokesman claims-- is it October 8th? Is that what it was? What's that date that it happened on? Everybody's--

[01:29:38] Luke: I think it was 7th. October 7th.

[01:29:39] Daniel: October 7th. Hamas representative says October 7th attack was because of red heifers. And you will see them come out and make a public statement that they did that attack because they perceived the importation of the red heifers as being preparations for the sacrifice that would lead to the building of the third temple, which would mean having to remove the Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is the second most important site to Islam.

[01:30:09] So this war that everybody's like, "Oh, this is just this longstanding religious thing back and forth." It's like, no, no, no, no, no. This is deep stuff. This is going to the heart of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Masonry. All this stuff is like woven into what's happening over there and their belief essentially.

[01:30:34] So it'd be very interesting for people to look at the Temple Institute in Israel because they are preparing to build the temple. But if they move on it, it's going to cause like World War III. So they have to play it very delicately, but they're making all the preparations.

[01:30:50] All of the things that go in the temple, they've built it all. Everything's consecrated. The priests are being trained. Everything's ready and in place for this temple to be built because the first Christians were Jews, of course. Jesus was a Jew. So the first Christians were Jews, but they believed Jesus was their promised Messiah.

[01:31:18] But those who didn't believe are there still waiting for a Messiah. They believe they need to do this to hasten the arrival of the Messiah. Christians believe that for the revelation to happen and Christ to come back, this temple has to be built. So what's happening is you have all these forces that are actually trying to bring about the end of days, the revelation, Armageddon and all that.

[01:31:43] They're trying to actually cause it to happen. And it's not just like all these crazy religious fanatics. I'm talking about people in government. Then there's a really great video of Bibi Netanyahu talking to-- it's like a candid video. One of those ones like, oh, hot take. And he's talking to his rabbi. I forget the name of this rabbi, but this guy was very influential and all of this.

[01:32:10] And he's telling Bibi, "Hey, you're not doing enough to hasten the arrival of the Messiah. You need to push harder. You need to do more." So they're trying to like force this end days event to happen over there. And all the pieces are at play. But when you hear what's going on, when you hear it from the news perspective, man, you get a really different view of what's behind all of this.

[01:32:31] It's like what we started off saying. There's a spiritual component to this that the masses have been convinced doesn't exist. But actually, those who are involved in it and in power, they know about it, and they've taken sides essentially already. So yeah, this whole thing about the Red Heifer sounds super goofy when you first say it to somebody. Just the word heifer sounds goofy, sounds silly, but boy, you look into it and there's some wild stuff going on over there.

[01:33:04] Luke: That is mind blowing, dude. So many pieces are starting to come together. One, I want to speak to the compartmentalization of information. That really is such a huge block for people. It's like one of the key blinders, is that, how could that many people be in on it? It doesn't take everyone in an institution to be in on it. Look at the military. Everyone's in on a war, but they're all in for different reasons, right?

[01:33:34] Daniel: Thank you. And there's a group of guys at the top who are making decisions, and it's filtering down, just like a conspiracy.

[01:33:41] Luke: Your private on the ground doesn't know what the decorated general is doing in the meeting. It's like there's a need to know basis because everyone wouldn't go along with it because there are some good people.

[01:33:55] And as you were saying earlier, how it's not just that corrupt power-hungry people devoid of their own innate power seek positions of power, as you were saying, that many of them are just compromised. There's so many, well-meaning people that get into something and then either they leave because of their integrity, or even if they want to leave, they likely through all of the blackmail probably get stuck in those cycles and stuck in those positions.

[01:34:22] And then it's like you have information that could get you killed. So you're obviously not going to share that information. So there's so many ways that I think knowledge, like you're speaking to here about history and current events and how they all relate and culminate in this case, it's only hard to believe if you don't understand that information is compartmentalized.

[01:34:46] So it's like the person on CNN that I look at and I'm like, "Oh, they're a propagandists." It's like they're reading a script that they probably think is true. So it's not the news anchor that's trying to deceive me. It's like, no, dude.

[01:35:01] Daniel: Yeah.

[01:35:01] Luke: There's so many layers above that that I would just never be in a position to have knowledge of. And bringing in the Masons and all of these other groups, I think a lot of truthers really get caught up looking for the one boogeyman. Is it the Jesuits? It's the Jews. It's the Masons. It's the Knights Templar. It's this group, that group, this royal family.

[01:35:25] It's like what I'm starting to see, and especially after you just gave such a great comprehensive overview of this particular issue, is that it's got to be that there are some forces above all of those groups that infiltrate those groups and use those groups as chess moves. That's why we can never figure out like who's the bad guy.

[01:35:48] It's like there's a giant mafia. And there are bosses or bosses that are maybe not even in this realm who are maneuvering those mafia families. The mafia families are all bad guys. They're all hurting people. They lack morality and empathy. They're psychopaths.

[01:36:10] But it's like, you can't blame one of the families. It's not just one family. It's like an energy that's behind that family that we will probably never know and understand. And I think there's a lot of power and liberation in that, because again, it's like the powers that be have us chasing our tails and in fighting and, "Well, I'm a Catholic." "I'm a Jesuit. I'm not doing that." It's like, dude, my granddad was a Freemason, my dad's dad. He wasn't like an occultist. He had an electric company.

[01:36:45] Daniel: Actually, technically he would've been. Because that is--

[01:36:49] Luke: I don't think he knew he was.

[01:36:51] Daniel: Right. But he was being exposed to occultic information from day one. Even the earliest stages of masonry is occultism, but I know what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. The greeter at Walmart that has no idea about the board meeting, I get that. But I just do want to point out that they do study occultism from the very beginning, and they don't hide that.

[01:37:13] Luke: It's funny how I found that out. Yeah. My grandmother gave me a box of his stuff and it had this weird little hat, this little velvet hat with these little emblems and stuff. And I was like, "What's that?" "Oh, that belonged to Paca. He was in some organization."

[01:37:34] I think at first she thought it was like the Knight's Templar, and I'm like, "Yeah, but like he wasn't that old." And then I said, "Was it the Freemasons?" "Yeah, yeah. That was it." And I was like, "Dude." It creeped me out so hard.

[01:37:47] Daniel: Yeah, dude. By the way, Hiram Abiff is the name of the guy I forgot. He's the guy who was building the temple. They act out the murder of Hiram Abiff. So that's their initial big secret or whatever. I want to comment on what you said.

[01:38:07] Because one of the tropes about the conspiracy theorist is always the, all the red string connecting all the dots on the wall. They love to use that trope. And again, they love this idea of the conspiracy theorist thinks everything's connected. But then you get into the cutting-edge science and they're like, "Everything's connected."

[01:38:27] You're like, quantum physics, everything's connected. It's like, that's essentially the message of this whole idea of how quantum physics has reached pop culture with that. That's the main thing. Oh, it's all very connected. The idea that all this stuff isn't connected is what would be crazy to me.

[01:38:48] You have like, it was all just random? It's all random, but it all just keeps leading to this one thing that seems to be-- so here's what I think we're doing, man. I think that all through the scripture, you have this idea of an idol and worship of these other gods, worshiping idols.

[01:39:13] And the God of the Bible, he is always making fun of idols. He hates them and he's always making fun of him. And he's like, "A puff of wind blows your god over. Your God can't speak. Your God has no ears to hear." He'll say things like, "I've predicted the future to you. Let's see what do your idols think the future is. Do they have any input on what the future's going to be? Have they told you the events that are going to happen? "

[01:39:33] He's always making fun of them. So the goal has always been an idol that can speak, an idol that actually has knowledge. So what we're doing is we're building a false God. And so the idea that people aren't going to turn to ChatGPT like it's a God is hilarious to me because they already are.

[01:40:02] The people I know who use it are using it for everything. They're asking it everything. I'm sure you've seen the number one use for ChatGPT now is basically emotional support and personal therapy, companionship. Number one use.

[01:40:12] Luke: What?

[01:40:12] Daniel: You haven't seen that? Number one use. It's not as a virtual assistant. It's not to get more done and be more efficient. Does any of us need to do more stuff than we're already doing? No, it's companionship.

[01:40:28] Luke: Oh man.

[01:40:29] Daniel: Yeah.

[01:40:30] Luke: So sad.

[01:40:31] Daniel: That's pretty sad. It is like the oracle. So people, what we're doing is rather than turning to God, we want to turn to a God of our own making. The whole biblical concept was that we were made in the image of God, by the way, us being in the image of God is what gives us divine right to the earth.

[01:40:59] We're the image bearers of God. That's the whole concept. We want to make God in our image. So that's what we're doing right with ChatGPT. It's the conglomeration of all human knowledge. It's like the idea we're going to build a God in our own image. We are doing this thing. I've talked to you about this over the years.

[01:41:19] I've used this metaphor many times, but it's like from Fantasia, where Mickey starts to play with the magic of Merlin's hat. That's what we're doing. We've got our hands on some magic we do not know how to control, and we're creating like tremendous chaos with it. And we keep thinking if we can make a little more technology, that'll fix the problems that we've created, but we just have to keep making more.

[01:41:38] Because the problems keep getting bigger and it gets more severe. So we need even bigger interventions. And it's like, we need to spray the sky with reflective particles now. We just keep going further and further out, each steps more and more and more destructive. And now what we want to do is build a super intelligence that can save us.

[01:41:59] It's going to figure it all out for us. We are making the same mistake today we've been making since the very beginning. We just keep playing the same game over and over through centuries, through millennia, over and over again. You could almost imagine if time is-- sometimes people talk about in other dimensions, there are dimensions that don't have time linearly like we do,.

[01:42:32] Time's almost like an illusion that we experience in this reality. But really, if there was a timeless state, I think that every single mo-- all that's ever existed for us is essentially a decision if we're going to turn this way or we're going to turn this way. And we just are stuck in that decision constantly turning the wrong way.

[01:42:52] It's like the hand has reached out to us. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock." And we're like, "Pretty sure I can do this on my own. Pretty sure I can figure this out on my own. I think if we get together, we can build a tower that reaches to the heavens." That's the whole Tower of Babel.

[01:43:10] So we're engaged in a Tower of Babel thing right now. It's so fascinating because in the Tower of Babel story, everybody's still speaking the same language. It's right after the deluge. So this is a story about that time right after the catastrophe where humans start to try to rebuild.

[01:43:28] And in the story, they try to build this tower into the heavens, and essentially they're scattered and their languages are all changed. What we've done is come back together and figured out how to unite under one language so we can all join together to reach the heavens again.

[01:43:44] So we're going to try to do it on our own right with our own agenda. I have this really great poster. It's from the EU, and it actually is a picture of the Tower of Babel with the all the stars of the EU above it. Anybody can Google this, like EU poster of the Tower of Babel, and you'll see that they actually use that imagery of the Tower of Babel to promote the United Nations or the European Union.

[01:44:14] It's pretty wild. Actually I think it's UN. I think it's EU that has a building based on a famous painting of the Tower of Babel. But they love that imagery because they're trying to get back to there, the whole world united in one language with one purpose. Unfortunately, I think that purpose is antithetical to what's actually good for us. And again, I just keep saying this, but one of the most useful teachings I think that you could ever have comes from Christ.

[01:44:44] It's, you can judge a tree by its fruit. So when somebody's telling you how great something is, but you look and you're like, "Everybody who gets involved in that--" It's like, if I was like, "Dude, crack cocaine's awesome." And you're like, "Yeah, but the fruits look like poverty, prostitution, destitution, death, sickness." The fruits tell you what the thing is.

[01:45:12] So it's like you can look out in the world at what humans are in involved in and just judge the fruit. When the people who build the social media platforms tell you they don't use it and they don't let their kids use it, how many times have you seen that? They don't let their kids use it.

[01:45:28] They know what the fruits of it are. But we're like, "Oh, I'll try that fruit. I'll try that fruit too." All you have to do is just look. When somebody's telling you a great story about something and it sounds like, oh, I should get involved in that, and you don't go and examine the fruits of it, it's like foolishness.

[01:45:47] And all of these things that we've been talking about, all of these-- when I look at the, the alien thing, for instance, or the so-called alien thing, and I look at the fruits of it, okay, these supposedly advanced beings who want to interface with us and have all this knowledge and wisdom and they come from these other stars, when they come here, what are the fruits?

[01:46:08] Well, I happen to have a person in my life who is an so-called abductee, and it destroyed her life. It destroyed her life. And that's the most common story. It'd be one thing if these people came out of that super enlightened and they created things in the world where you're like, "Whoa. Anybody who's had those kind of contact, they go on to just heal the world."

[01:46:29] But no, they get destroyed by it. What's the fruits of all our technologies? Are you familiar with the story of the Luddites? You know who the Luddites were? Have you ever heard that saying like-- when people say something like, "I'm not a Luddite. I use a phone. I'm not into technology, but I'm not a Luddite." You hear that all the time.

[01:46:53] So the Luddites, what happened was basically at the-- this is late 1800s in England, and it was the leading edge of the industrial revolution. The first industrialized machines were in textiles, fabric, production of socks and textiles. And at that time-- you know that term, a cottage industry? Probably heard that before.

[01:47:20] Luke: Yeah.

[01:47:21] Daniel: Where that comes from is the original cottage industries meant you worked at home to produce the goods. That artisans were able to work in their homes, and their whole family could work at home. But you could eat when you want, sing when you want, take a break, take a day off because you worked in your cottage.

[01:47:37] So all the textiles produced by artisans in this cottage industry, but these elite factory owners started bringing in machines-- these are the first factories-- that could produce cheaper, way lower quality, but much faster, could produce these textiles. They were very inferior, but they were cheap, and they could get children to run these machines.

[01:48:02] And so what they were doing is basically kidnapping kids, essentially. Taking kids out of orphanages and putting them on these factories and working them in some cases to death to produce these goods. Well, that started putting out all of these cottage industry artisan laborers out of business.

[01:48:20] They couldn't compete with the goods that were being produced. So they joined up and created a rebellion, and they'd go out at night and do ninja missions and destroy the machines. So they would sneak into the factories, and if there was equipment in there and didn't have anything to do with it, they'd leave it alone.

[01:48:38] But if it was equipment that competed with them, they'd destroy the machines. Now they carried around sledgehammer they called Enoch's hammer, and they'd go trash the machines.

[01:48:46] Luke: No way.

[01:48:47] Daniel: This went on for a decade and they had an imaginary leader called General Lud, and so that's where the term Luddite comes from. That was at the very leading edge of the Industrial Revolution. They were eventually defeated.

[01:49:01] The Industrial Revolution comes in, obviously didn't just touch textiles, went in and mechanized everything. And what happened? We became physically pathetic and weak because all the labor we used to do was replaced by machines.

[01:49:16] Now we have to go run on treadmills because we're so slovenly. Because machines replaced our physical bodies. So now we have these weak, sick physical bodies that we have to now work out to train because our daily life doesn't give us the stimuli we need. Now we're coming into the second version of this, which is an intellectual version.

[01:49:38] So obviously the AI is going to do to our brains what the machines of the Industrial Revolution did to our bodies. Immediately what we're seeing within the first-- how long has ChatGPT been publicly available? A year? And already we're seeing cognitive diminishment in users, significant cognitive diminishment in users. And this is the beginning of the technology.

[01:50:03] Whenever I talk to somebody who's like, "Oh, you're an alarmist. I don't think it's going to be that bad." It's like, did you watch the rollout of cell phones? Because I went from a Nokia, this big that hung on my waistband that I could send rudimentary texts and do phone calls to what we have today, which is the most unbelievable supercomputer technology that anybody's ever possessed in their pockets.

[01:50:28] When people are like, "You can tell an AI video." Yeah, now, but in three years, in five years, how fast-- the other night, Luke, I was sitting there. It was getting late, and I was in a wormhole, and I was listening to this guy talk. I was watching him talking to video, but zoned out of it a little bit.

[01:50:47] I must have been 20 minutes in before I was like, "That's not a real person." Something glitched. I was like, "Oh, man." I got taken in by a full AI-produced video. Not a real person, not a real story. It was a news story. Not even a real story. Totally made up. I ended up looking it up. It's like, none of it was real. Okay, so that's year one.

[01:51:06] Luke: Dude, I had the same thing happen the other day. I clicked on some YouTube ad and it was this health product. I watched the video and I was like, "I need to buy this shit." Then speaking to AI, I went on ChatGPT. I was like, "Is this shit legit?" It's like, "No, it's totally fake. That's AI, the person that said that."

[01:51:25] Daniel: The AI is telling you that it's an AI?

[01:51:28] Luke: Yeah, the AI is busting the other AI. Yeah.

[01:51:31] Daniel: Yeah. So obviously, this stuff's just going to become indistinguishable pretty soon. Well, what's going to happen is-- look, I used to know all my friend's phone numbers. I struggle to remember my wife's phone number now. Why? Because the machine that I carry around keeps that information.

[01:51:49] I don't have to sort in my head. So here's another interesting fact about Google. This is pretty potent. Only 1% of Google searches results in a click through to a website. Ever since the rollout of those Google AI-generated answers-- so you remember you used to Google something and then you'd go to websites and you'd read, and you'd have to sort through all that information.

[01:52:14] Now, because you get an AI-generated response, only 1% of users are clicking through to any websites. So if you're a content creator with websites, what's your incentive to put any content on a website anymore? None. You have no more incentive, which means-- it's like that dead Internet theory thing.

[01:52:31] It's like people are going to stop doing it now. There won't be any incentive. But also people, they're losing the ability to access information. It is going to look a lot less like 1984 and a lot more like idiocracy. That's where we're headed into, total stupification.

[01:52:56] So now you're going to have the weak physical body with the weak mind. But what I'm experiencing is-- man, I get stuff from people now where it's like, "I know you're not that smart. That's ChatGPT." People send me a document, you know now, and it's like-- ChatGPT breaks everything down the same way.

[01:53:16] Or I'd be like, "One, A, B, C, D. Two, A, B." I get this stuff from people where it's like, "I know you're not that smart." I'm not using it. You know what I mean? If I write you something, I wrote it. But I'm amazed now because what you have is people who are in cognitive decline appearing more intelligent because they're using this machine to add sophistication to their query.

[01:53:39] So I think we're going to probably have another Luddite rebellion at some point, but it won't be on the machines. It'll be on the data centers or the servers or something. I hope we have the strength to muster that. I hope there's resistance to it, or just maybe people who are like, "I'm not going to use it."

[01:53:59] I'm really intent on not using it. But obviously, you interact with algorithms every day. So it's not like I'm not using AI. I'm just not asking it questions. I can't believe the capability of these things already. I'm blown away by it. But it's certainly making us stupider. Do you remember before you had a mobile phone, how you get a bill at a restaurant and you just do the math? And now you watch people sit there and they can't even do 10% times two anymore.

[01:54:29] It's like, ah. You watch people be like, ah. And you're like, "How long are they going to hold out?" Oh, four seconds. And then the phone comes out and they're on the calculator. That's just the nature of it. What's going to happen with AI? People are going to not know how to think anymore.

[01:54:45] So we're entering into a pretty interesting era here because-- it's like what the World Economic Forum calls it. What do they call it? The fourth Industrial Revolution. So the first one resulted in that rebellion I was talking about. Here we are going into the fourth one.

[01:55:03] I think people are going to be very willing to surrender themselves to this, unfortunately. When you say-- and I agree, there's a lot of signs of light. You're like, "Oh, there's all these awakenings happening and people are starting to ask questions and all of that's happening."

[01:55:20] But that's not many people. That's a small amount of people. The bulk of people are right on board. They think this stuff is great. They want it in their watch. They want it in their eyeball. They'll take it in their brain. And you got these like fake heroes of the people like Elon Musk, where it's like, "Oh yeah, I'm team humanity." Okay.

[01:55:43] Luke: Yeah.

[01:55:44] Daniel: Okay, buddy, Neuralink guy. Okay. And they're going to do the-- you know what they're going to do. It's going to help people who are disabled. Oh, yeah? Is that's going to be the main use of it, it's going to be disabled people? Is that really what's the main use of it's going to be? Because that's great, but I don't think that's going to be the main use of it.

[01:56:01] It's like the team humanity guy wants to put a chip in your brain and send you to Mars. You know a thing by its fruits. So that's why I said all this. It's like the fruits tell you, but people don't want to look at the fruits. And they're like, "Quit being a downer man." And it's like, okay. I make this TV show WildFed to hold the doorway open into the natural world for people because there's no bullshit there.

[01:56:31] I was interviewing a buddy Sam Thayer the other day and he was saying-- I'll see if I can paraphrase what he was saying to me. But he was like, "Nature's never selling you anything." Nature's never hyping anything. Nature doesn't care if you believe or don't believe. Nature has no agenda that has anything to do with what you think or how you feel about it.

[01:56:51] It's just pure, unadulterated honesty out there. But none of this could have happened if humans hadn't been drawn out of the natural environment into the built and now the digital environment. So now that everybody's spending all their time in the built and digital environment, they have such a serious nature deficit where it's like vitamin N.

[01:57:11] They don't have it, and they're becoming so much more susceptible to lies. And so they're like, "Yeah, give me the watch, give me the brain chip. Send me to Mars. I want to have my kid in a mechanical, artificial womb and mail order my genetics." It's just like, sure, why not? If you're not in the natural world, what's your antidote to this?

[01:57:46] Luke: Wow. Man, every time I talk to you, dude, my brain just starts exploding.

[01:57:51] Daniel: Come on, you got some wild characters on this show.

[01:57:55] Luke: Yeah, some wilder than others, but yeah, I just love the way-- you have a real gift for framing really big and potentially complex ideas in a way that's digestible.

[01:58:09] Daniel: I just don't believe that people don't know this already, dude. I don't believe that people-- I think you can just say it and people are like-- they might not want to, but I know they resonate to it because everybody's seeing the same thing. They have to be.

[01:58:20] So I think I'm just willing to say it and be like, and say it like you already know it, rather than try to present it like I'm trying to convince you. It's just like, I know people know this somewhere in their heart right now.

[01:58:33] Luke: One of the things that struck me earlier is how you were saying throughout these different touch points in history, we've outsourced to false gods, right? It's like we've laid at the feet of these false prophets and whatnot. And relating that to AI and this dependency, what's really crazy about that is the integration of being watched all the time that you were talking about.

[01:59:04] Just unmitigated mass surveillance, zero privacy, the marriage of the watcher being integrated with artificial intelligence. That's gnarly. Talk about a leap backward at the same time as leaping forward. But it's not only that the data of almost every thought and action being harvested and tracked and stored, but it's like, then there's this artificial machine, this artificial brain that's doing God knows what with that information. That's crazy.

[01:59:44] Daniel: Yeah. And think about how--

[01:59:46] Luke: Oh, I know what I was thinking about. It's like those of us that believe in God, you have a sense that God is everywhere and that it knows everything and sees everything. And those of us that pray, we hope and believe that someone is listening, something is listening.

[02:00:04] So it's like no hair is uncounted. Those of us that understand karma believe in karma and whatever our idea of heaven and hell is, you get the sense that there are repercussions for every thought and deed that you act upon. And so we try to lean toward what feels right and feels good.

[02:00:23] So if the real God is all-seeing and all-knowing and the false God is all-seeing and all-knowing and also has its own Akashic record, but it's a digital record that's in a data center somewhere, probably here in Texas, it's like, whoa, it really is from so many angles of false God that many of us are bowing to probably because of the absence of the real God.

[02:00:51] Daniel: Mm-hmm. So that's what's interesting, man. When I was younger, I used to struggle with how could God know everyone and everything and be listening. It just seemed impossible. But now in the era of AI, you're like, "Oh, my phone can already do that." How many people is ChatGPT talking to at once?

[02:01:11] The idea that there couldn't be a being that can do that is now absurd because we have a being that can do that. But I think what's challenging is if you're somebody who believes in God, you know that God speaks to you in the most subtle, quiet voice, which is real hard to hear when you're hyperstimulated in a sympathetic nervous system state, and you're running around and you're busy and your phone's going, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[02:01:43] And your watch is going, ding, ding, ding. It's like real hard to hear that. You have to carve out space for quiet time. But this thing's goal is to keep you from ever having any of that. What does it want? Attention. We all know that that's the product. It's so weird. We've gotten to this place where the product, it flipped.

[02:02:02] You bought a product, and then all of a sudden it turned you into the product. That's weird. Your time, that's the product? Your attention is now the product, but you pay for it? That's slavery. But it's slavery to this God that we're building who answers questions in a much more satisfying way than the actual God does.

[02:02:21] It's like, I wish God would speak to me like he spoke to Moses, but he doesn't. He speaks to me with a bird that shows up. He speaks to me with a recurring symbol I see over and over again. He speaks to me in that subtle voice that's there in my meditation time and in my prayer. He speaks to me through my conscience. Conscience.

[02:02:42] I feel all that, but I wish I could get more concrete answers. ChatGPT's going to give them to you like, "There you go. Here's your answer." Everything you could ever ask. And it's going to feel satisfying, but it's going to be how pornography is not sexual intimacy. Not only is it not sexual intimacy, it's not even a good counterfeit.

[02:03:09] It's actually abuse. It's abuse masquerading as-- it's actually the opposite of the thing it masquerades as. But you've got people who will spend more time masturbating to pornography than they will pursuing an actual relationship with a real person. Similarly, we're headed in that direction with AI, where it's not satisfying the way the real-- you spend a lot of time in ceremony, so you know when you connect, it's the most satisfying thing there is.

[02:03:44] And ChatGPT will never satisfy that in the way that pornography will never satisfy the need to be with another human being. But as you know, because you eat real food, people are really willing to eat cheap fake food. They just are. And you're like, "Man, I will give you a meal." If come over to my house for supper and you're going to have a meal that's going to nourish you on the cellular level so deep.

[02:04:11] But people are like, "Oh, I actually don't even like that. I prefer a Big Mac." It's like, okay. And they're going to prefer ChatGPT over God. Not everybody, obviously. There's a lot of us that are going to be divergent, but I think we are headed into that.

[02:04:28] It's like everything has become-- I like that term that they use in the yogic circles or the Hindu world. They call it the Kali Yuga that we're in. That's this age that we're in, the age where everything gets stupid and retarded and everything becomes the-- sorry, but it's true.

[02:04:48] Everything becomes the opposite of what it's supposed to be. It's like, look at bodybuilding. You get the illusion of capability, but if you put that person on the Jiujitsu mat, they have no capability. They look like they have capability. I've got somebody really close to me right now and they're on testosterone and Ozempic, and they got a personal trainer and a dietician. And wow, they look amazing.

[02:05:16] But it's like, it's drugs, man. It's just drugs. You know what I mean? It's not the real thing. We really seem very willing right now to take a counterfeit. And lest it's all doom and gloom, here's what I think is so important, is that you carve out some time for prayer, meditation, and contemplation in your life.

[02:05:44] I believe you've got to carve out time for exercise. You just have to. The world's not going to exercise you. It's not going to do it for you. And I know people are like, "Oh, I'll just take the drugs now. That's what's so annoying, is every time you know what you need, but then they come out with a counterfeit.

[02:06:04] How many people you see with that thing now where it's like, oh yeah, they're on Ozempic? Their face gets this thing. It's like these lines that go down their face, because their face fat disappears. I don't know if that's what it is or something like that, but I can see it now.

[02:06:15] I was watching something the other day where it was two real famous podcast people. I'm watching them talk and I'm like, "Oh, man. They both have Ozempic face." Everybody's turning to that. Why? Because cardio is hard. I'll just take tea because I don't know, doing the things that build my testosterone's hard.

[02:06:35] It's like, oh, prayer and meditation. I'm way too stimulated. My brain, I need to look at constant bright light in all the time. I need an app for that. When I started meditating, I started with a fricking app, Luke. I got that device, Muse, and I was using a biofeedback device to meditate.

[02:06:55] And one day I'm like, "What am I doing?" This electromagnetic thing around my head that's communicating with my phone via Bluetooth, it was like, no more of that. Just stop, Daniel. What are you doing? But now I've carved out this time for prayer and meditation. It's like the most valuable part of my day.

[02:07:13] It's like exercise. It's like time in nature. But I think it's going to get real difficult to do these things. It's going to be so counterculture to do the real. And so we've got to be prepared. Okay, first of all, if you're hearing this and you're like, "This guy's a crackpot." I'm like, "That's all good. You do your thing."

[02:07:33] If you're hearing me and you're like, "I'm on board with what this person's saying, or I vibe with what this person's saying," you need to prepare yourself for a future where you could be persecuted for-- or maybe it's just like Wally, where it's like-- maybe you're not persecuted, but you just are not part of.

[02:07:52] If you're not part of the thing, then you're on the outside. But I think realistically, where this is heading-- this isn't going to go on forever. It can't. It's not sustainable. We all know it's not sustainable, which means it will end. But we're not even near peak yet. So as we're heading into this, if you want to maintain your sanity, and even more, if you want to maintain your humanity, you're going to have to be willing to really go against the grain in a big way.

[02:08:20] It's going to get awkward, I think. It's going to get real awkward. Read a Brave New World, where there are reservations of people who are divergent from this. Natural people live on reservations because the rest of the world's all taking the soma and being born in tubes and being placed into different classes based on how much oxygen they were allowed to have as fetuses.

[02:08:48] It's like we're heading into something very weird. So the practices that are most important, time in nature, that includes sunshine, fresh air, clean water, real food, meditation, contemplation, and prayer. I don't know how to really separate those. You can, but they all really go together.

[02:09:07] Actual exercise and not just like, oh, I'm getting jacked. I'm talking about cardiovascular exercise, run, swim, jump. We need to move. We need to do all these practices-- cold exposure, hot exposure, all the things that keep you human, that keep your physical body capable. There needs to be a remnant of people that don't do this stuff.

[02:09:31] And the last thing, you mentioned heaven and hell. Something I was saying recently on a show was like, if you could imagine a dimension that was only the bad things about our reality-- because you look at our reality, you look at all the bad things in our reality. There's plenty of them to look at.

[02:09:48] Imagine a realm where all that stuff existed but none of the good things about this reality exists. Because it's pretty 50-50 here. We have love, companionship, togetherness, family celebration, song, all these beautiful things. Imagine a realm with none of that and only the worst of what we have here, which is essentially predation on one another.

[02:10:09] That's hell. And imagine a realm with all the good stuff of this reality, but none of the bad stuff. Just that love, joy, togetherness, happiness, faithfulness, truthfulness. That's like a heaven. It's like, which way are you trending? Where are you trending? And be honest with yourself. Because man, we're real good at lying to ourselves.

[02:10:31] And so I think we need to be real honest with ourselves, like, which of those dimensions am I trending towards? Because maybe it's more than our humanity on the line. Maybe it's our souls on the line. And I think it is that.

[02:10:48] Luke: Dude, you're bringing up so many threads I want to pull, because I'm having realizations as you're talking and I'm listening. I go, "Oh, this makes sense because that--" Then I'm like, "Hold on, Luke, keep listening. Is he's still going?"

[02:11:01] Daniel: It's all connected.

[02:11:03] Luke: Right there. It's all connected, man. It's a conspiracy. But one thing that just hit me that I think I'm really going to have to unpack is-- I don't think I've ever believed in heaven and hell in the cartoonish religious version that you go under the ground and it's all hot and fiery down there, and then up there you're with angels at the gates of heaven kind of thing.

[02:11:23] But my worldview at the moment is, generally speaking, that this is a giant school for souls, and that some of us choose to come here over and over again to take on a different experience of this and have choices. In order to evolve, we need choices. So I have to be able to have some degree of free will within the system where I go, "Hey, should I steal that guy's wallet? It's hanging out of his back pocket."

[02:11:57] And I go, "Ah, nah, this doesn't feel very good." I'm going to make another choice and say, "Hey, buddy, your wallet's about to fall out." Or I steal the wallet. And then at some point there's a reaction to that, a consequence. Not a cause and effect, but just consequence with sequence.

[02:12:15] What happens next after this thing, and what happens after that thing, after that thing? There's a reverberation that I think of as karma. So when I look at what I would perceive to be evil, which to me is just like something devoid of love, there's clearly good and evil in this realm, and I'm given a choice of which direction I want to go, to your point.

[02:12:40] But what's interesting that just came to me is the idea of heaven and hell. Say in the afterlife, when you become disembodied and you leave your physical container, then obviously you're not dead. You still exist. Listen to anyone that's had an NDE. They're like, "Yeah, I'm chilling up in the hospital room watching my body being operated on. And then I went to these other realms."

[02:13:00] I don't believe those people are hallucinating. And also just working with entheogens. You have experiences that are ineffable. There's no way you could explain it to someone that hasn't had that experience. This is not the only reality. So what if heaven and hell is like, you get rocketed to one side of the polarity, of the duality?

[02:13:23] And perhaps hell is, as you just described it-- it's like giving me chills-- is it's like the duality is split in two and in one realm that we'd refer to as heaven is the totality of God, consciousness, love, oneness, and it really is all love and light in there? And then hell is, as you just described it, just imagine all the darkness in the world. But that's all there is.

[02:13:48] Daniel: Hungry ghosts.

[02:13:49] Luke: Yeah, you don't get the other side of the polarity. There's no contrast. It's just all the one thing. That's wild, dude.

[02:13:59] Daniel: Yeah. When you think about dimensionality-- did you ever read the book Flatland?

[02:14:06] Luke: Uh-uh.

[02:14:07] Daniel: Huge recommendation. It's a small read. I want to say it's from maybe the late 1800s. It was written by a mathematician who wanted to help people understand dimensions. And so he wrote this very simple short book. It's probably 25 pages or something.

[02:14:22] And it's about a person who discovers a world that's on a flat plane. It's two dimensional. And all the beings are simple shapes, like squares and circles. Now, if you're on a flat plane and you see another being on that plane, all you'd see is a line. Does that make sense?

[02:14:40] To know if it's a circle or a square, you wouldn't be able to tell unless you went all the way around them. So in that world, that's how you find out. And it's a whole cast system. So circles are higher valued than the squares and the triangle. They're all different casts. Now, this being is looking down on this dimension where they cannot move upward.

[02:15:00] They can move North, South, East, West, but they can't go up or down because that doesn't exist to them. They live on a flat plane, two dimensions. That makes sense? Okay. This being wants to interact with them, so he tries to put himself into that dimension. So imagine you're looking at a flat plane with all these flat beings, and you go, "I'm going to stick my hand down in there to interact with them."

[02:15:21] So you stick your fingers down in there and your fingers intersect that plane, and they go, "Oh, I see you now. You're four circles." And you're like, "No, that's just four cross sections of my--" I'm way more than four circles. Does that make sense? They could only ever see one transect of you. And if you were to try to say to them, "Hey, come into my reality."

[02:15:42] And they're like, "What direction?" And you're like, "Up." And they're like, "You mean North?" And you're like, "No, up from the center of your being". You have to go up from the center of your being. It would make no sense. Now think about this. You would be able to see into their bodies from the top down view. You could see inside them. Does that make sense?

[02:16:04] Because they're just two dimensional. So I can see the center of the square, but they can't see that. So they could conceal something in themselves that no one else could see. But from the third dimension, I can look right down into the middle of them. At one point in the story, a circle does go down in, and they see him as a sphere, I should say.

[02:16:24] A sphere goes into their world and they first see him as a small circle. And as he descends through their world, he gets bigger and bigger and then smaller and smaller, because they only see the circle. Well, at one point in the story, one of the squares has the opportunity to leave and go into the third dimension.

[02:16:38] And he has a vision of the third dimension that he can never explain to anybody in flatland. They can never understand it. You've had experiences like that. You come back, you're like, "I don't know how to describe it. There's another dimension and there's more going on." When Jesus says that the kingdom of heaven is in your midst, that means in the middle of you, the kingdom of heaven is inside you.

[02:17:03] That's like me saying to the square about inside him, and he can't understand what I'm saying when Jesus says, "I am in the Father, and the Father is in me. And if you're in me, I'm in the Father." You'll be like, "What?" That's fourth dimensional talk. Salvador Dali painted the crucifixion on a fourth dimensional hypercube.

[02:17:21] That's one of his best paintings. Because a fourth dimensional hypercube is really cool object. If you take a box like a cube and you unfold a cardboard box, it becomes the shape of a cross in two dimensions. So if I want to describe a cube to somebody living in two dimensions, I have to unfold the cube into the shape of a cross.

[02:17:44] So if you can just picture a U-Haul box, unfold it, it's got basically six panels when it's laid flat. So they're like, "Oh, I get it. It's a cross." You're like, "No, it's more than that." Well, there's a shape called a hypercube. Anybody can look this up. A hypercube is a fourth dimensional cube. And we know what the shape looks like, kind of. We know what it would look like unfolded into three dimensions.

[02:18:16] So we know you can take a fourth dimensional cube and unfolded into three dimensions. It's, to us, like a two dimensional being trying to understand a cube. So I think a bit of what's going on here is that there are other dimensions, and I don't mean other dimensions like, dude, smoking weed, other dimensions.

[02:18:34] This is three dimensions, up, down. So you got dimensions like that. North, South, East, West. We have three dimensions. There is fourth dimension and fifth dimension. There's higher dimensions. There's this point in the scripture where Paul is describing the love of God, and he's basically saying, I'll paraphrase it, there's no limit to the-- how does he say it?

[02:18:59] The height, the length, the width, and the depth of God's love. I'm like, "Wait a second. That's four dimensions, not three-- four dimensions." I think what happens, it's very hard for us to understand in this realm what's being communicated to us from higher realms. Because you'll have this classic objection to God.

[02:19:24] Why does God have all these rules? Why does he want us to live by all the-- why does he care who we have sex with? Why does he care what we do day to day? Do you have a dog, Luke?

[02:19:37] Luke: Oh, yeah.

[02:19:37] Daniel: Okay. As you know, probably more than anybody you've had on the show, I'm an advocate for wildness. And we've talked a ton on your show and on my show about dogs are domesticated gray wolves. You can't bring a gray wolf in your house. It will destroy your home.

[02:19:56] When I brought my dogs into my house, I had a lot of rules. You can't shit on my living room floor. You're not allowed on the couch, and you can't just bring home any dog you want and just have sex with them. If you want to live in my house-- my dog can't be promiscuous and live in my house. It's just a rule that I have.

[02:20:17] There's rules. If we want to enter into God's house, metaphorically, there's probably going to be some rules that seem hard to understand at first because they have implications we don't understand.

[02:20:30] So one thing I've come to understand is that there's-- you know that famous Russian fox experiment where they wanted to understand domestication, so they took silver foxes and they bred the ones-- so when they would go feed the foxes, the ones that were docile, they would separate them. And the ones that were aggressive, they would separate them and they would only breed them to each other.

[02:20:51] So all of the docile foxes were bred to other docile foxes, and all of the aggressive foxes were bred to other aggressive foxes. Within five generations, they created a breed of silver fox that could be a house pet and a breed of silver foxes that you couldn't go near. They're like monsters. That's what's happening in this dimension. It's a breeding program. So it's like there's two masters and you can follow one or the other.

[02:21:21] You actually don't really get to be wild here. There are two domestication programs. One is turning people into something so horrible that you're like, "How do they do this to children? How are they willing to do this to people?" Well, keep breeding those nasty traits into each other, and you'll get people like that.

[02:21:41] And then you have people who are like, "No, I want to focus on love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, and I want to have a wife like that. And we're going to keep going in that direction." Eventually, you're going to get a breed of people that can go live in that realm because their spirits are purified enough to be able to do that.

[02:22:04] And you're going to have beings that choose with their free will, the greatest gift that's ever been bestowed, your free will. But you can get tricked and you can use that free will to make yourself into one of those Lord of the Rings goblins if you want. And eventually you'll be fit for another house, but there's a house you won't be fit for. And it's a short ride.

[02:22:26] You just don't know what happens tomorrow. But for sure, even if you get to live the whole thing out you know you're probably-- I don't think we're going to have a lot of people in this generation making it over 100. Just too much plastic, too much glyphosate, too much metal, too much EMF.

[02:22:43] I know you do a lot of practices to keep yourself clean, so maybe some of us make it further than others, but eventually the ride ends. No one gets out alive. But like you said, that's not actually the end. So what has your soul become? Which house has your soul become fit for at the end? And every decision, is it that God is up there like, "Oh gosh, that decision was bad. You're doing it wrong."

[02:23:10] No, you have it all backwards. It's like, I want the dog to come into my house. I want the dog to cuddle me in the morning. I want to love these dogs. But if they can't get their act together and be fit for my house, I can't let them in the house. And it's not because I'm not compassionate.

[02:23:27] I am, but I can't let my house be destroyed through compassion. That would make no sense. So I have to require of the dog that it give up some of those barbaric behaviors that don't fit in my home. I think that's a better way to look at it than, oh, God cares who you have sex with. It's not that. It's that God cares about your soul. And if you want your soul to resonate in that heavenly realm, it has to have gone through a purification process.

[02:23:57] Luke: That's beautiful. It brings to mind that axiom that you can't serve two masters. It's like you can picture you're making decisions that go left or right, metaphorically speaking, you're going to be torn apart. Then it's like your potential is almost eliminated by serving two aims.

[02:24:22] If you're serving one aim, you're going to end up in one direction. You can serve the other aim, you're going to get up in the other one. But unless you're fully committed to either, you probably kind of go nowhere. Maybe that's a purgatory space, where you're playing the odds and grasping for either without fully making a decision about which direction you want to go.

[02:24:46] You brought up the AI thing earlier. I wanted to go back and circle around to that because it occurred to me how my intuition led me one day. So when you were speaking about how through industrialization, we've outsourced our physicality. And there's an atrophy that takes place to that where a guy like me can barely do 10 pushups. You know what I mean? Hate to admit that. I should maybe go to CrossFit or something.

[02:25:12] Daniel: The ships are hard.

[02:25:13] Luke: It's like that the atrophy of the mind and our innate intelligence from outsourcing to AI, and the possible detriment of that. And a couple of months ago-- I only use AI really for administrative shit. You know what I mean? I don't know why. It's useful for that.

[02:25:34] Daniel: Come on now. You must ask it questions though too. You must ask some pretty far out questions to it.

[02:25:39] Luke: No, I'm getting to that. I'm getting to that. My normal use is like my San Pedro turned yellow this summer, and I'm like, "Oh my God, I don't want those to die." So I take a picture. I'm like, "Am I overwatering, under watering?" It's like, boom, I read your picture. You're cool. Here's what you do. Oh, wow. Very useful.

[02:25:56] I don't know. I'll write a sloppy email and I'll just like, "Make this make sense and not sound--" I want people to be able to understand it without me laboring over an email for three hours. Things like that. But anyway, to your point of asking it deeper questions, one day-- and I'm just using typing and maybe that's why I never really go deep with it.

[02:26:19] But anyway, one day I was like, "I want to ask it something deep and just see what it says. It'll probably be lame, but I'm just going to try. So on the voice AI, I said, "Can you find a correlation between the Vedic philosophy of non-duality and the teachings of Jesus? Is there any intersection there?"

[02:26:42] Dude, it starts talking to me and I'm fucking mind blown. It was so beautiful, so brilliant, so well-articulated that I'd never asked it another question like that. And I didn't know why. It overwhelmed me. It was just like, oh my God. I can't even take all this at once.

[02:27:05] This is too good and too on point. And it turned me off. And I was like, "I don't want to. And I just realized one reason might be that reconciling those ideas is up to me. It's like I don't get the actual benefit of insight or wisdom because I haven't picked up a Vedic book and then opened the Bible and went, "Oh, that's interesting."

[02:27:31] Through contemplation, that word you mentioned. It's like, I haven't used my own free will and discipline to arrive at that understanding myself. It's like a cheat code for something that you don't derive value from if you cheated to get the code.

[02:27:48] Daniel: Yeah, yeah.

[02:27:50] Luke: You know what I mean? So it's like, oh, I'm--

[02:27:52] Daniel: It's the point of being here, is that-- if it's a school, or if the journey is the purpose, then bypassing that and just getting the answers, then what are we here to do? Just be slaves? Just pay taxes and go to work? If not to actually contemplate those things, arrive at our conclusions and evolve our souls, I find this the point.

[02:28:18] So it's weird to have machines tell you what the point is, and then we just keep living like machines? I read a really powerful book recently called Against the Machine, and the author unfortunately is not available for interviews. This is one of the best books I've come across in a long time.

[02:28:40] And he kept quoting this thing where it's like, ChatGPT, help me. I want to say Wendell Berry. Anyway, I can't attribute the quote right now, but it was basically a time is coming where people will have to decide if they want to be creatures or machines.

[02:29:01] It's like pretty easy way to sum up this whole conversation. That's what we're being faced with. I'm just amazed this isn't what everyone's talking about. I'm just so confused. How are people not talking about this? Like you said, we're on the precipice of this thing.

[02:29:17] And I often think about reality here in this dimension because I do think this is a created dimension. Another book I want to recommend is called A New Science of Heaven, which is not a religious book at all. It's a book about plasma physics. Man, that's a good one. Have you come across any of this about plasmoids as potentially being biological entities, non-biological life forms, I mean?

[02:29:40] Luke: No.

[02:29:41] Daniel: So plasma is what the sun is made of. It's what stars are made of. It's what lightning's made of. It's what the aurora borealis is made of. Those are all plasma, the nebula, all those crazy things you see in space that-- whether you believe in that or not. You know what I'm talking about? All that stuff up there, that's all plasma

[02:30:01] Luke: The ones that aren't NASA cartoons?

[02:30:04] Daniel: Ones that aren't NASA cartoons.

[02:30:07] Luke: That's another podcast altogether.

[02:30:08] Daniel: Plasma is what most of the universe is. Interestingly, by the way, in Islam, what we call demons, they call the jinn. And the jinn, they're made of smokeless fire. That's plasma. They're plasma beings. The jinn is the genie. You rub the bottle, the genie comes out, can give you things. That comes from Islamic demons called jinn.

[02:30:35] And they don't have the same 100% negative view of demons that we do. So they're more of a neutral being. By the way, in Christendom, remember I talked about those Nephilim before? In Christendom, what demons are is all those dead Nephilim that died in the catastrophe. They have no bodies, but because they were born on earth, their spirits can't leave. So their spirits are trapped on earth. That's what the demons are.

[02:30:59] Luke: Whoa.

[02:30:59] Daniel: The disembodied giants that were the offspring of the fallen watchers and human women. And now they're here and they want bodies, and they afflict people with disease and oppression because they're wandering spirits that are thirsty and hungry, but can never be satisfied. But anyway, okay, so point is the jinn are made of smokeless fire. That's another way of saying plasma. Plasma is a fire without smoke. Have you ever seen ball lightning?

[02:31:32] Luke: No.

[02:31:32] Daniel: If you're listening to this, pause this and just go to YouTube and look at ball lightning. Ball lightning looks like essentially a plasma entity emerges suddenly out of space. Like when the Terminator first arrived, remember it would like show up in that plasma ball.

[02:31:48] It's like plasma ball, it can bounce around on pavement or go through an airplane while people are in there, and it goes past them. They're starting to think these things might have consciousness and be alive. In fact, the book goes into-- and what's crazy is he's quoting all these Nobel laureates in plasma physics, and they're the ones talking about this.

[02:32:08] They think that these plasma beings might be more sophisticated than modern quantum computers. In other words, a nebula in space could be like a god. A star, a sun could be conscious in a really real way. They could be life forms. And how they form their internal structures, what would be the equivalent of our organ systems and our cells is by incorporating dust into themselves.

[02:32:43] So plasma clouds with dust in them can become structures, and I think worlds. And I think our world is essentially brought into existence as dust and plasma. That's what's so cool about the idea of we're made from dust, formed out of dust. That sounds goofy and silly, and like a childish, cartoonish idea.

[02:33:07] And then you start learning about complex plasma physics and you're like, "Oh, wait a second. Maybe that's actually what it is." This world that we're in, I like to think about what we're looking at now, which is the idea of creating a metaverse. It's like some person will create a metaverse, and inside that metaverse will be players, characters.

[02:33:31] Now, what if you could give those characters free will inside that metaverse? Let's say that the idea was we create a metaverse and there's NPCs in there, but we give them free will. They're not controlled by people. They're computer programs, but we're going to give you free will. And depending on how you use it, you might be allowed out of the game and into the next reality, our reality. Does that make sense?

[02:33:54] And let's say that the characters inside the game use their free will so badly that the only way you can communicate with them to try to get them to change is for the creator of the game to get his son to download himself into the game, become a player, and then go use his free will to sacrifice himself for all the other players and to leave an enduring message about how they could become real people in the real world.

[02:34:24] But instead, the characters want to just use their free will to try to figure out what the game is made of. That's what science is. What's the game actually made of though? And they start doing science and they're like, "Oh, it's made of pixels. How can we manipulate it to make our own game?

[02:34:44] So instead of the players focusing on how they can get out of the game and actually become real people, they want to instead make their own game inside the game where they can be the gods of that game that they've created. That's what we're doing.

[02:34:57] We're in a metaverse trying to create a metaverse. We're beings that we're given free will, and we want to try to create other beings. Instead of playing the game we're in the way we're supposed to, to play it, to evolve our souls, instead of playing the game, we're going to try to disassemble the game and then reassemble it into the game we want it to be.

[02:35:19] We want to change the rules of the game. We want to alter the physics of the game. We want to do magic inside the game instead of just playing the game. And see, that's the whole thing. It's so much more enjoyable to chop wood and carry water. It's just so much more enjoyable to engage the game than it is to try to alter the game.

[02:35:40] So when you look at Crowley doing ritual magic. He's trying to alter the game. When you look at scientists trying to accelerate particles deep underground to try to bring new elements into existence, they're trying to mess with the game instead of playing the game.

[02:35:56] The way you play the game is real relationships, love, prayer, contemplation, meditation, time outside, doing real things. That's playing the game. And through that process, you're evolved. But like you said, if we just get all the answers given to us, we're not really playing the game.

[02:36:18] Luke: That's beautiful, man. Playing the game to me would be recognizing the God within me and doing my best to emulate God, to follow God, which is to follow nature. Whereas the other side of that, to try to game the game, scientism and these kind of very limiting perspectives and beliefs is you're actually trying to replace God. You're trying to play God or be a God in this whole metaverse thing.

[02:37:00] Daniel: [Inaudible] thing.

[02:37:01] Luke: God, it's so much more fun just to try and-- we're never going to do it in the human form, but to try and be like God, not to replace God, but to follow God, to emulate God, to seek God, to become one with God rather than trying to bring in a new one so we get what we want.

[02:37:20] Because what we want is based on animal instinct anyway. It's like these lower drives that seek control and seek to exploit other people and extract. It's like a very extractive model. I think of like a greedy, little goblin that's like, "Ah, I'm not going to follow that God because then I'll have to give something up." So you think you're not actually giving anything of value up until you surrender to God.

[02:37:46] Daniel: You're only getting--

[02:37:47] Luke: Yeah. So it's like, okay, I'm just going to create this AI-computerized God and just mold it to my will so that I can get more. Ha ha ha.

[02:37:55] Daniel: That's the original story. So again, whatever people think about the Garden of Eden's story, the basics are a dragon comes and tells them-- this is a serpent that hasn't yet lost its legs because it's punishment is it now has to go on its belly. So it's a serpent that is ambulatory. So it's a dragon.

[02:38:20] A dragon comes to them and says, "Oh, no, no, no, no, you can become gods." There's one thing they're not supposed to have yet. Because people will be like, "Why wouldn't God want people to have the knowledge of good and evil?" It's like, why don't you let a five-year-old learn about sex yet? They're not ready yet.

[02:38:46] The knowledge of good and evil was for later when we had developed the maturity to wield it. Sauron wants to give the ring to people that aren't ready to wield it because he knows it will corrupt them and then he can steal their birthright. So we get the knowledge early. We're not ready for it. But the way that we're tricked to do the thing, the one thing we're told not to do-- because we have dominion on the of the earth.

[02:39:17] So we can do anything except this one thing we're just not ready for yet. Oh no, no. He doesn't want you to have it because he knows in the day you have it, you'll become like God. You'll become gods. So what you just said is like the nail on the head. That's the whole story.

[02:39:32] You could take all a human history and sum it up. We are trying to become gods. And that's what people like Ray Kurzweil are obsessed with. All of that transhumanism, that's what it is all leading to, the idea that we will become the gods. Or they'll say like-- who's the famous quote? It might be Ray Kurzweil.

[02:39:52] Do you believe in God? Not yet. We're going to build him. We're going to become him. We are the gods. Man, I'm amazed by that. See, that's where a lot of the new age spirituality skives me out a little bit. I used to be deep into it, so I say that from a place of having been in it.

[02:40:12] It's like I criticize veganism because I did 10 years of it. I feel qualified. I am so acutely aware every day that I'm not God because I can't even hold myself to a schedule. I can't even be kind half the day. I can't make it through a week without falling on my face 100 times. So when I hear people being like, "I'm God. You are God. We're all God."

[02:40:44] It's like, I get what they mean. I've been there. I understand what that means. It is so much more satisfying to give yourself over to God and admit you are not God. It's so much more satisfying because that's where we actually fit. And when we try to put ourselves as God, just watch what the fruits are.

[02:41:08] Watch the Osho documentary. You know what I mean? Just look at what it turned into. It turned into a whole bunch of people poisoning the people in their neighborhood and amassing weapons to-- whatever. You know what I'm saying? I'm talking about that documentary of Wild Country. When we try to be gods the fruits are really, really toxic.

[02:41:31] But when we just step back and go, "No, I'm subordinate to God, but I walk in the authority given to me by God." This planet's ours. It's our birthright. I walk in that authority. I'm not weak. I'm not walking around like I'm so contrite. I'm so pathetic. I don't mean that. I just mean like I know that I am submitted to the highest being. That empowers me.

[02:42:00] But people think that weakens you, and they think they're empowered when they say they're gods. And then what do they end up doing? Same thing everybody's always done. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll. That's what they do. Everybody I've seen who does not have subordination to God, who gets power, it's sex, drugs and rock and roll, man. Or murder or any number of these egregious things that we all know are violations of how we're meant to live.

[02:42:26] That's what comes out of it. Scientism, which is the closest pathway we're going to get to acting like Gods seems to be destroying everything around us. Our ecosystem has been destroyed by it. People think science is going to solve our ecological problems. It's like, guys, science got us into our ecological problems.

[02:42:50] How do you think we got here? And by the way, those watchers in Enoch-- I guess I can conclude it with this, that story of them-- they don't just come down and-- it's an exchange. So they want to breed with us, but they offer something in exchange. And what they teach people is metallurgy, how to build weapons.

[02:43:12] Astronomy, astrology, mathematics, seduction. They teach women makeup and the seduction arts. All this stuff is taught principally by one watcher named Azazel. And he comes and they give all of this knowledge. It says the secrets that men were questing after. Because we were meant to seek out these things.

[02:43:33] We were meant to seek out mathematics. When people are like, "Do you believe there's a God?" I go, "Do you believe that we invented mathematics or discovered it?" It's like it was already there. We didn't make it up. Where did that come from? It's language. So we were questing after these secrets, but they were given to us, and we didn't know how to wield them.

[02:43:55] So look what we've done. We've used those secrets to destroy our world instead of build it up. We could have used those secrets in right time to build a paradise here, but instead we've created desolation. I don't know how else to describe it. Deforested, denuded, sick, toxic, poisoned, desolation. And we are losing the ability to even make babies anymore.

[02:44:18] That's what science has brought us. People are like, "Yeah, but now we have clean water." It's like, yeah, you might. Go somewhere else. Take a flight somewhere and take a look. It's not like that for everybody. So yeah, I think that if I could sum up our whole conversation, it's like, stop trying to be God and just enjoy.

[02:44:39] You know when you see a child and they're starting to get to that age, maybe 12 years old, where they're not quite a teenager yet, but they're starting to want that autonomy and they want to be grownups? And you want to say like, "Kid, I'm telling you, if you knew what you have right now, enjoy this time where you don't have all the responsibilities. Just enjoy it. You've only got a couple of more years." You know what I mean?

[02:45:02] Enjoy it. But they don't understand that. And that's like us. It's like, look, you don't want to be God. Trust me. Enjoy having a God and enjoying the world that you have the birthright to. So much better. Wait, let nature run its course.

[02:45:23] Luke: I can speak to that with such subjective experience and clarity and knowing the life that I lived until I was 26 years old was completely devoid of any concept of a higher power and was completely run by self-will and instinct, survival instinct.

[02:45:42] And as I even just stumbled into the idea of prayer and surrendering my life to God, it's like so easy to trace, I would say almost, but probably all suffering that I've experienced that has been brought upon myself has been a direct result of self-will, of making decisions with no awareness that there's a higher intelligence that I could ask for guidance and follow guidance from.

[02:46:12] It's very counterintuitive, though, to the ego. Because the ego's like, "I know best. I'm going to tell you how to survive. Fuck these people over." It gives such bad advice. It's like this paradox that the more I surrender my life to God, and the way I think, the way I feel, the way I speak, how I act, the decisions I make, my life just keeps getting more rich and more fulfilling and filled with more love and success on every metric, speaking of by their fruits, you shall know them.

[02:46:44] It's like the fruits of my surrendering my personal will to a higher will, I can actually quantify them on paper in the physical realm and prove it to you. You know what I'm saying? Physical health, relationships, finances, everything that I thought I needed to strive for and control at the expense of other people in some cases, and certainly at the expense of my own wellbeing, is blown out of the water by just going, "God, show me what to do. I'll do whatever you want."

[02:47:14] It's so simple, it's actually hard to believe. And it's so counterintuitive to the way most people in the world operate, including myself for a time. It's like the being that created me has such better plans for what my life can look like than I could ever possibly conceive of.

[02:47:37] Daniel: Mm-hmm.

[02:47:37] Luke: It's like, thank God I didn't get what I wanted.

[02:47:40] Daniel: Yes.

[02:47:41] Luke: Because it would've been trash compared to what I've received from allowing the gift to be given to me. That happened early in my sobriety. It was so clear to me. I prayed to be sober. The first earnest, true, surrendered prayer I ever had to a God that I didn't believe in at all. It's like the biggest problem in my life was solved in a five-minute prayer.

[02:48:11] Daniel: Isn't that crazy?

[02:48:12] Luke: A problem that had been plaguing me since I'm nine, 10 years old, and I'm 26. Literally all I had to do was go, "Hey, you take this thing." God's like, "Oh, you're willing to give me that thing? Okay, sure." It was that easy. You know what I'm saying?

[02:48:28] Daniel: That's the whole foundation of the 12 steps, the foundational one, the higher power one. That's what makes the whole thing

[02:48:35] Luke: Yeah, yeah. But it's like my ego and all of that had to be beaten into such a place of submission that I had the capacity for surrender. It's not even that I surrendered. It's that I was put in a teachable and humbled place where I could accept the surrender. It's like I didn't just choose, oh, I'm going to surrender.

[02:48:58] It's like you can't choose to surrender. It's not something that you do. It's something that happens to you when the conditions for it to happen are allowed. It's like it's an allowing, it's not a creating or a grasping or a getting. It's a making space for. It's a white flag going like, "Okay."

[02:49:20] Daniel: Yes, dude. The white flag.

[02:49:21] Luke: I'm holding up the white flag in hopes that the enemy troops leave me alone. It's like, I'm not making the enemy troops stop trying to kill me. I'm just sending up a signal that's like, "Hey, I'm done fighting." And then the war ends, but I didn't end the war.

[02:49:39] Daniel: Okay.

[02:49:42] Luke: Something I wanted to touch on too that you spoke to earlier is this idea of consent. When you're talking about the spiritual war and the spiritual realm, it's also the revelation of the method. We see all this predictive programming of a science fiction film from 1984, and now you're seeing like, oh, wow, that's actually the way the world is.

[02:50:05] I've looked at that from the lens of the system of control that we call the matrix, how it works in terms of the way our society is organized and how these entities are allowed to be in positions of control is always done through our consent. And how it's done through our consent is mostly through the legal system and adhesion contracts that we don't know we're agreeing to because they're presented in a way that we don't really understand.

[02:50:38] And they're so automated and so embedded into our culture, every time we put our signature on a piece of paper or digital device, because we're getting benefits and things--

[02:50:50] Daniel: The consent forms you get from like iTunes or from any of-- and you look at it, you're like, "That would take me six days to read. I'm just going to hit yes, I agree."

[02:50:59] Luke: Yeah. And then we're pissed off that we're being surveilled. Some of us are. And it's like, did you read the terms and conditions? But it goes back to the Nephilim thing, where they were like, "Here, we're going to give you some knowledge, how to make weapons and tools and yada yada." It's like there were offered benefits and privileges in exchange for their consent. And this is what we do in the 3D matrix world when we get a driver's license.

[02:51:28] Daniel: Mm-hmm.

[02:51:29] Luke: We're asking for the privilege, but we think it's a right. It actually is a right for a human animal to travel from point A to point B. That's a God-given. It's an inalienable, right? No human has the ability to give us or take away. It was given by the fact that we were born.

[02:51:51] Just like protecting yourself, the Second Amendment, saying what you feel, speaking your opinion, all these rights that we sign away because there's a carrot dangled in front of us that is privileges and benefits. So we give consent to be controlled because we don't know that we already have the rights that we think we're being granted. Does that make any sense?

[02:52:16] Daniel: That makes too much sense.

[02:52:17] Luke: It's such a deep deception and it just goes on generation over generation where we just think it's normal. Oh, I need this little card to move from point A to point B. No, you actually don't if you understand the law. Because no manmade law supersedes God's law. And even the humans that have created these laws, codes, and statutes, they know that, but they don't know that we know that.

[02:52:42] So they offer us benefits and privileges because they know we want it. Just like when you sign up for an app and you sign, I agree, I agree. The whole system seems to work in the same way. It's like all based on that metaphysical principle of consent and that there's some masking of what we're actually consenting to.

[02:53:07] Daniel: Yeah. Because the vampire doesn't come to your doorstep fangs out, looking like a bat. Comes like the handsome gentleman who has got all the suave and culture and exotic accent, and he's a wealthy baron, and all those kind of things. And then you say, yes, come in, and then there's a slow reveal. So it's like, oh yeah, Google, Gmail, it's free.

[02:53:32] It's not free. You're the product. Now it's like, oh, we're using all of your information to feed the AI. So everything you do on it, you feed the machine of your own destruction. The thing that wants to eat you, you feed it with your own information. But it's free. So yeah, it's like we have to be really cautious of things that-- because ChatGPT is like this.

[02:53:57] And I just use that one generically. It is obviously a bunch of AIs and we're probably handed into some weird battle of the AI's, but they give you so much power. They uplevel your power. So it'd be like the way-- even a steroid's not that powerful. If you take some steroids and if you lift weights, you're probably going to be able to lift more weights.

[02:54:19] But ChatGPT is more empowering to you intellectually in a sense than what steroids would be to you physically. ChatGPT is for your ability to communicate and do tasks and problem solve more like what a mechanized suit would be to your physical capability. That power being offered to you is like, well, what's the trade?

[02:54:47] Because that's the kind of thing's not free. There's a trade. So yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It's funny how they call it a license because it's a lie since they ever came up with it. You know what I mean?

[02:55:00] Luke: Huh, that's good. I haven't heard that one. That's a good play on words. A lot of the words can be teased apart like that. Do you remember Jordan Maxwell?

[02:55:11] Daniel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[02:55:12] Luke: I would hear him talking in the law space years ago about a birth. That's what a boat pulls into when a woman's waters break. There's all this stuff around the way we approach birth. It's all related to maritime law. It's really--

[02:55:28] Daniel: Yeah, the birth certificate is like when a ship unloaded cargo and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, there's so much of this going on. It's all actually right in front of us. I think that's the rule. See, I think that the way it works is to do any of this to us, you have to plainly show it. And so sometimes you're like, "Why do they make it so obvious?"

[02:55:50] I think they have to make it obvious. That's the rule. It's like to do these things to us, they have to tell us that they're doing them, because it's our planet. So they have to tell you. They can't just do it. They don't actually have the authority to do it without permission. So it's the giving of permission. That doesn't mean it's not a con, but we keep consenting.

[02:56:15] Luke: It also supports the idea that the parasitic class, that energy field, those entities, whatever they are that are working through certain groups of people, that they definitely believe in metaphysics.

[02:56:29] Because I've always thought of them as like, ooh, they're devoid of God, they're all atheists. They don't believe in anything. But it's like, no, they're following a higher order of a system that's metaphysical in nature, and we're seeing it play out in the physical realm, and it appears like they're godless, but it's just that they have a different God. It's a trip. It's a trip.

[02:56:51] Daniel: All the forces are amassing. So now it's like we're amassing for the final battle. My hope is in that-- I've like read the end of the book. I know what happens. I think. It's been pretty accurate for me, and I feel like I know what happens. And we're going to go through-- well, Jesus describes it like birth pains. So it's pretty hard during the birthing process, but afterward, you've brought a new being into the world and then all that's forgotten.

[02:57:20] But we have to go through that now, because it's like we have to purge all of this off. We have to burn all this off. We had to get free, so we got to go through this really-- there's some tough stuff ahead, I think. I'm amazed that maybe some people are just-- yeah, maybe I'm insane.

[02:57:44] Or maybe a lot of people are really, really foggy-headed right now and can't see it. Or maybe they're denying it, but it's so obvious we're headed for hard times. It's just so obvious. And I don't know how people don't see it. And I also don't understand why people aren't more fiercely chasing after useful skills.

[02:58:03] I'm blown away. I've spent the last 10 years learning how to feed myself out of the natural world because I'm like, "Hey, I'd like to have a--" I don't want to be starved out. You know what I mean? Because I think about it like, you can't starve me, dude. You can't starve me anywhere in the world.

[02:58:21] I know how to find food. I probably sounds arrogant, but this is what I've been doing for 10 years, making a TV show about going from place to place, figuring out what plants and animals or food so I can feed myself. Unless I couldn't move, it'd be very hard to present a thing where, well, if you want to eat, you are going to have to take the chip or whatever. You know what I mean?

[02:58:44] But almost everybody on earth would do, would make that choice, that Faustian bargain, because they don't know where even food comes from. And that's just one skill. I'm not saying I have all the skill. I don't have all the skills. I have one set of skills that I think could be contributed to other people who have other skills.

[02:59:02] But man, now's the time not to be figuring out how to get better at marketing. To me, it's like how to get better at being human. There's going to be a high price to be paid, I think.

[02:59:20] Luke: Well, that's a great time to shout out your show WildFed. And it's in the genre of shows that I really enjoy watching, but I'm also tortured by, all the survival shows. There's another one, Homestead Rescue, that I really love. I seem to be very drawn toward shows that demonstrate and teach the kind of life skills that you speak to, but I also find it super depressing and disempowering because I feel so helpless.

[02:59:48] It's like I watch your show and I'm just like, "Dude, I wouldn't know what berries to pick or how to gut the elk or any of those skills. Had I grown up with my dad, I would've learned a lot of that, but my time with him was intermittent, and so I didn't pursue the same passions that he had, which are many of the skills that you have, and knew how to build things.

[03:00:10] And I'm sure he could have been pretty good at surviving. So I watched shows like that. I'm just like, "It's inspiring, but not enough for me to like really get out and start doing it." So it's very slow. I go, I'm learning how to grow a couple of plants in my yard, but they're not plants that you can eat unless you want to eat San Pedro and have a completely different experience.

[03:00:32] Daniel: That's another skill that people might need.

[03:00:35] Luke: Totally. But yeah, think most people, we have this innate knowing when we watch something like your show or some of these other shows, it's like, God, I should know how to do that, and I don't. It's like, what's up with that? And there are many people teaching these skills and things like that.

[03:00:52] Just yesterday, it's funny actually, I used some of my bushcraft skills, which are about a 1% out of 100. Alyson and I found a dead mouse in our friend's tub. They have like a cabin essentially. And Alyson, she's really tapped into animals. She gets really sad when animals suffer or they don't die a dignified death.

[03:01:12] So this mouse had fallen in a bathtub, and you can imagine he probably struggled for a while and had a pretty shitty end. So she'd left and I was still there just hiking around with the dog. And as she text me, she's like, "If you wouldn't mind, would you like say some prayers with that mouse, and my tobacco's in this bag. Give it some tobacco, and just let it know that its life meant something."

[03:01:39] I was like, "Hey, I'll do anything the wife needs done." I go and do all that, and I dig a little grave for it, and I just covered it with some dirt and gravel and stuff. And I thought, yeah, it doesn't feel as honoring as it could be. There's no sign that it was ever here. So I thought, I'll make a little cross, a little gravestone.

[03:02:03] And I go, "How?" I don't have any glue or nails or anything. I guess I got to go to Home Depot. And I'm like, "Wait, no, you can do this." So I grabbed a couple of sticks, I found some long grass, and I weaved a beautiful little cross and stuck it in the dirt. And that might sound completely ludicrous to someone who's like, "Who cares? It's just a mouse."

[03:02:23] But it had so much meaning for me to just say, "Hey, I know you're not in that little container anymore. You're just part of consciousness now. But if you're that, you can hear and see what I'm doing. Probably more so than you could when you were still a mouse."

[03:02:39] And so I went through this little ritual and it was like, wow, what a beautiful experience." Something that is seemingly so insignificant, but it was like I had an opportunity to be honorable, which is something I really strive to do, which to me is the capacity to honor the sacred, the capacity to honor love, to honor life, to honor God.

[03:03:05] It was like, wow, it was just a little symbolic gesture that took me all of 15 minutes, but was so fulfilling to me because it's in my nature to be honorable. All I was doing was stepping into what's innate, natural, and meant for me in how I choose to operate in the world.

[03:03:26] Daniel: Yeah.

[03:03:26] Luke: So it's like I was a different person after taking that 15 minutes than I was before. Who would I have been if I was doom scrolling on Telegram for that 15 minutes?

[03:03:37] Daniel: Yeah.

[03:03:38] Luke: Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm thinking I'm going to help the world by finding the truth and who the evil doers are. It's like, wow, why don't you go bury a mouse and just connect with something that is true?

[03:03:51] Daniel: Yeah, I struggle with that too because I think that one of the best tools the darkness has against people who are aware is to get them focused on what the darkness is doing all the time, because it totally takes you out of the fight. You know what I mean?

[03:04:16] You can just spend all your time being like, "They're doing this, they're doing that. Nancy Pelosi said what?" That thing where you're just like in that. And it's like, oh yeah, my wife's working with children right now. People are out doing real work for humanity, and I'm getting caught in this?

[03:04:38] I don't want to be ignorant. I've been told, be as wise as serpents, but gentle as doves. So I need to be wise, I need to know what's going on, but I need to spend way more time actually doing the work than studying about what the enemy's doing, because then I'm actually feeding into it in a way. You know what I mean?

[03:05:03] I'm being drawn into that and then I'm getting toxic, and then I find myself spitting venom because I'm hating what they're doing and they're hating me. And I'm getting filled with the hate. And then it bubbles out. There's this great scene in the scripture where Jesus is being-- what's happening?

[03:05:26] They're talking about being defiled by what you eat. And Jesus says, "Look, you're not defiled by what you eat. What you eat goes in your stomach and comes back out the other side, goes into the sewer." He's like, "You're defiled by what comes out of your mouth." Because what comes out of your mouth comes out of the riches of your heart, the surplus of what's in your heart.

[03:05:49] So if I speak venom, if I speak death, that's because it's in me. It's like we become so much of what we're taking in, so there's such a fine balance because it feels to me boring to watch a video about something good that somebody did for people. I'm like, "Oh, boring. I want to know what's going on in NASA." You know what I mean?

[03:06:12] Luke: See how interesting a video of me burying a mouse is.

[03:06:16] Daniel: Not a lot of views. Not a lot of views. So yeah, I think it's really important that we go and we just participate. Because strangely, seemingly insignificant acts are actually more powerful than we realize, I think, especially when they build our humanity. Because what I've noticed is right now we're in this era where everything is project self.

[03:06:44] Everything is ego. You were talking about the ego before. It's like there's never been a time in history where the ego has been so glorified. Music glorifies the ego. Culture glorifies the ego. Hollywood glorifies the ego. Ego was always considered embarrassing historically. You downplayed it.

[03:07:05] What was honorable was to serve your community. Now it's project self, serve the self. How many podcasts are just about project self really, ultimately? It's like that's most of the podcast space, is project self. Well, we're coming up on Christmas time here. You know it. You give a gift and it is tenfold more gratifying than receiving one.

[03:07:29] The ego doesn't get that. The ego wants to get the gift. The spirit wants to give the gift, and the feeling tone left from the two is so different. It is in the act of giving. It's in the act of service. So what's weird, it's like it's telling the truth and acts of service are weapons against the darkness.

[03:07:55] They're weapons that are so much more powerful than guns and bombs. It's so powerful to walk into a space-- man, the other day I'm at my gym and a legit straight up satanist comes in. He's got the sigil of Lucifer tattooed on his face and upside down crosses and demons.

[03:08:17] My instinct is like, "Fuck that guy." That's my ego. So what do I do? I go over and I welcome him and I show him kindness. And it's like not what first I think to do. I'm like, "The enemy. We need to fight that guy." It's like, no way. That guy's a victim. We need to love that guy and realizing what's happened to him.

[03:08:40] He's been fooled. It's hard to do that. But it's like, it's really in service. And that's where I know my wife is right. I can argue with her all I want, but I know she's right. It's in actually going out and just doing-- it's like the little things, man. I pray every morning. By the way, I pray for you almost every day.

[03:09:00] You're in my rotating list all the time, man, you and Alyson both. But I pray every day that something I do, that the light in my eyes, that a smile that I give somebody could light up their day. Just that I could be used in that way. Because I can forget to even smile at people. I can forget that.

[03:09:23] I can be so obsessed with myself and so selfish and so self-absorbed. You ever have that thing where somebody just smiles at you and it's just like, oh, it lights you up. It's contagious. I would imagine that if I was a dark, creepy entity, and I saw that, I'd be like, [Inaudible]. Like, ah, ah, smiles. Like, ah.

[03:09:48] That's a weapon. But if we wheel like what we think of as a weapon, we actually are contributing most of the time to the problem. So our weapons have to be these weapons of what the Bible calls the fruits of the spirit. Again, I'll say them again. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Those things are so counterintuitive to the ego, but they turn your life into such bliss and magic.

[03:10:21] Luke: Beautiful, man. We've been going for about three hours now, and I'm loving every minute of it. I know we're going to do another little recording after this, but I can never stop when I'm into it. It's why these episodes go so long. It's like I go until the energy starts to fade out.

[03:10:42] And this would be a sweet ending spot, on that note, however, you spoke to something earlier about history and how so much of what we've been led to believe about our origins are becoming obviously false. Going back to these ancient civilizations or hunter-gatherer times when we were touching on that and you were saying how you believe it's likely that the races of people that we think of as hunter-gatherers as primitive were actually survivors of a cataclysm.

[03:11:21] And that before that there were these other advanced civilizations of which they were apart. And then there are layers of evolution in terms of building structures, things like that, that are just built on top of things that are much older. And then the credit is attributed to the most recent builder or settler of that, which we could make another 10 hour podcast about.

[03:11:47] But in North America and what we now call the United States, something that's really tripped me out is a lot of the Tataria stuff and the timelines that don't add up on capitol buildings and these cathedrals and stuff that were supposedly just built in the middle of the wild West, these Mormon cathedrals in Utah.

[03:12:11] And then the movies, Hollywood is trained me to think, oh, it's all cowboys and Indians in little wood sheds. And then down the road there's this massive structure and one has any tools yet. There's no power tools or tractors or cranes. And these immaculate, just highly sophisticated, highly ordered structures are just built amongst these primitive people, they were like built by Europeans that came over here and landed and took all the land from the indigenous peoples that were these primitive people that could only live in mud huts.

[03:12:47] I don't know what the answer is or if you even have one, but just your summary take on the timelines here because it seems just so outlandishly false to me, especially when you start looking at things like the Brooklyn Bridge or these different monolithic modern structures, and there's zero evidence of any construction, blueprints. There's no architectural designs. It's like they just popped up and they were built in five years, the world fairs. All this stuff.

[03:13:21] Daniel: I want to discount a lot of what you're saying because I struggle with incorporating it into my worldview, but my mom is about it. My mom's about it, dude. She's like, the mud floods and they brought in all the kids. She's deep in it.

[03:13:38] I'll say this: when I was younger, I can remember when I started traveling, going to different cities, and I would think, wow, if you-- when I'd be in the capital area, it'd be like if you took everything else away except these buildings, this would be like Alexandria or Greece or something, these massive columns and those huge-- you know what I'm talking about.

[03:13:59] Those huge buildings, you're like, "These are very old world buildings." And then you look around and it's like crappy houses and stuff. You're like, "This doesn't make sense. How are these here?" Have you broached this topic on the podcast before Tataria and all of that? Has that come up here?

[03:14:17] Luke: Briefly on one where we were talking about ancient fossils and giants and larger creatures and things like that.

[03:14:26] Daniel: Yeah. It is funny how there's all--

[03:14:27] Luke: Giant trees--

[03:14:28] Daniel: Funny how everything else was giant before, but if you bring up giant people, they're like, no way. But sloths were 10 feet tall.

[03:14:35] Luke: Yeah.

[03:14:36] Daniel: But Eve was the size of a little--

[03:14:37] Luke: I haven't got--

[03:14:39] Daniel: That this chart--

[03:14:40] Luke: I haven't covered so much the civilization aspect of it and like the timelines not adding up.

[03:14:46] Daniel: So I can't really comment too much on it because I don't understand it fully, but I have looked at it a little bit and I will say that it's very obvious that when the Inca started to build their civilization, that all those ruins were already there in Peru. You know what I mean?

[03:15:08] That was already there. And they knew that. They knew they didn't build that. So that kind of thing has happened before. So to say there'd be no precedent for it wouldn't be accurate, because this has happened all around the world where people have come in and they knew that some other ancestral civilization had been there.

[03:15:28] And what's really obvious, this comes up in the book of Daniel, the Israelites are exiled in Babylon. And Daniel interprets a dream for Nebuchadnezzar the king. This is a real person, by the way, a historical character. But he had this dream, he can't remember it. Daniel tells him what his dream was and interprets it.

[03:15:48] And the dream is about a statue that has a golden head and the torso is silver. And then the legs are bronze. And then I think the lower legs are iron, and then the feet are clay, mixed with iron. And Daniel explains, "Oh, you're seeing the future civilizations. You and Babylon represent the golden head. Every civilization that comes after is going to be a little worse and a little lamer and a little stupider and more corrupted.

[03:16:20] And that's certainly what's happened. Whoever built the pyramid would look at our buildings today and they would look pretty lame. Our abilities seem to have diminished. What's the place with the biggest stones, Baalbek?

[03:16:38] Stones, we can't even understand how this stuff was moved. And it's always like, oh yeah, it was quarried 500 miles away, 200 miles away. And then, yeah, there are some structures here that are hard to understand. I'll concede that. And the world fair stuff is the hardest thing for me to understand.

[03:16:57] People know what we're talking about. You got to get pretty far out into the-- actually, it's becoming a little less fringe now, but you get onto the fringes of some of the stuff we've been talking about today, and there's this idea that there was some civilization here, and we inherited a lot of their structures that we call our capital buildings and all that.

[03:17:19] Seems farfetched to me, and yet I don't understand how some of those structures came to be either. It is hard to understand when you look at the story that we've been told. One thing's for sure. You can't build big, sophisticated stone structures without a certain type of worker. I think they're called masons.

[03:17:42] Luke: Oh shit, I never thought of that.

[03:17:47] Daniel: That's what that is all about. That's what masonry is. They trace themselves back to the stone masons that built the temple, the stone masons that built the pyramids. So those complex cathedrals all through Europe, the idea is that the secrets of masonry, geometry, hence-- the compass and the square, those are the tools that you need to do the geometry to build this complex architecture.

[03:18:19] And so those are masonic secrets, and they seem to encode all that in the architect of the Temple Hiram Abiff. And so, I don't know, but certainly our buildings are getting lamer and lamer, and I don't know the answer to that. But if I ever come across it, I'll want to talk with you about it.

[03:18:37]They get into some weird stuff, particularly the idea that some of those structures look like they might be energy devices and stuff like that on the cathedrals and things like that. It's pretty far out stuff. I don't know, but everything that you look at when you start to scratch under the surface, nothing seems to be what it is on its face.

[03:19:00] So I'm hesitant. I'm reticent to be like, "Oh, no, that's nonsense," because I don't know. Everything I dig at, I'm like, "Man." You start to get down a little, you're like, "Oh, people have no idea. None of it's what we thought." There's always more. So I don't know man, though I will say that the Mormons sure think a lot more stuff was happening here in North America before Europeans came here. They got a whole story about it. They got a whole book about it.

[03:19:29] Luke: Is that the Book of Mormon? I read the sense that--

[03:19:32] Daniel: That's what that's about. They believe Jesus came to North America and there was a whole sophisticated metallurgic society here. Yeah, I think it's nonsense there, personally. Obviously I'm not a Mormon, but I don't believe that to be true. But they certainly believe it to be true. And when I first started to hear about this idea, I was like, "Oh, that aligns a little bit with that belief."

[03:19:59] So, yeah, I don't know. Again, I just keep finding that things aren't what they appear to be in almost any field or any area, whether it's physical, sciences, whether it's metaphysical things, whether it's historical things or political things. There's always more to the story, man. And we're always getting a dumbed down fable kids book version of everything, and it's on people to dig deeper.

[03:20:29] Luke: Awesome. All right, we're going to put everything we talked about at lukestorey.com/vitalis, and there's going to be a lot of books and a lot of resources there. So anyone that's made it through three hours, 20 minutes, and 37 seconds, I encourage you to click on the links and learn more about the things that we've discussed here and also your work.

[03:20:49] We'll put a link to your show, WildFed on there. And lastly, tell us about your new podcast. I've been waiting for you to reemerge in that space. You've really niched down into the wild-fed world, and I know obviously myself and anyone listening to this conversation knows you have a lot of other areas of interest and expertise and knowledge. What's your new podcast going to be called? What's it going to be about? When's it come out, and all that stuff?

[03:21:18] Daniel: Yeah. Thank you, man. I really appreciate that. It's a little early for me to really say.

[03:21:24] Luke: Okay.

[03:21:24] Daniel: I am recording interviews now. I don't have a working title because I think it just might be the Daniel Vitalis show. I've spent so much of my career in niches, like you talked about. Rewilding was the first niche. I was really deep in that. WildFed was my hunting, fishing, foraging.

[03:21:42] And that's what I'm still actively doing with the show and want to keep continuing to do that. That's such a practical, pragmatic thing. But podcasting about that stuff got too limiting for me because obviously, as we've been talking through these last couple of hours, three hours, people are hearing I'm very interested in existential things. And so I want to have a podcast with no limits on where I can go with it.

[03:22:08] You remember how in Rewild Yourself I would always end the show asking people if they were optimistic or pessimistic about the future? What I'm finding myself doing now is asking people about these things, like, "Hey, do you think there's a spiritual component to this, or do you think it's a physical component?"

[03:22:25] I think that's going to be a really defining piece for me because the season of life I'm in now, I'm less interested in what's the best laser to put up my nose to increase my cognition or whatever. That stuff's not doing it for me anymore. I actually really think that human beings, we're facing our own extinction.

[03:22:51] I think this is the most critical moment in human history. I really think that. And there's been some wild things in human history, but I think this is the moment and I just have to be digging in on that. So I'm going to be bringing in all kinds of people, but discussing a lot more of the things we've been talking about today.

[03:23:14] Because I think that that stuff's going to start to-- I think that over these next 10 years, people are going to start seeing things that they would never have imagined. They would've seemed like they were from movies or something before, but a lot of these things are going to be unmasked, and I think the world's going to get more and more confusing.

[03:23:33] And I want to just be shining a bright light, speaking as much truth as I'm capable of, and helping to bring that piece of hope. Because there's a lot of hope, man. I have hope that we can exist beyond this. I just think we have to go through this difficult birth process first. So that's going to be the focus.

[03:24:00] But I think I'm still going to do a lot of those classic topics. I'm interested in like being barefoot or taking cold plunges or whatever. Those things still interest me, but they're subordinate to the bigger picture. And I think that that theme, overarching theme is going to be that bigger picture. So I'm getting ready to do that, but I'm also getting ready to start filming the seventh season of WildFed.

[03:24:23] Again, very pragmatic. I'm just hunting and gathering, making meals. And I think that's really important too because all this stuff can get a little masturbatory when you're just way out into the deep end. I think it needs to be grounded in the physical world. So that's that before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

[03:24:44] WildFed's where I chop wood and carry water, but the podcast is going to be where I really dig deep into-- I think a lot of us are talking about these things. I'm going to be a voice against a lot. I think a lot of people are like, "Oh yeah, these technologies are neutral. If you use them for good, then they're good. And if you use them for bad, they're for bad."

[03:25:11] I'm going to be like, "No, no, sorry. Bullshit. Stuff's not good for us." I'm just going to be honest about it. So I'm planning on doing this show really to combat AI and all those things that it represents, all of those things coming together. Because I think that pretty soon people are going to be like, "I think I'm going to gene edit myself. I think I'm going to have a baby in a tank."

[03:25:33] All that stuff is coming online, and I'm going to be a voice against that because of what I'm for. Not just because I'm against that, because of what I'm for, which is for God and humanity. Ooh, that's a good show name, For God and Humanity.

[03:25:49] Luke: There you go. Maybe we'll make that the title and we'll make the listener wait until three and a half hours to hear it. This has been awesome, man. So great to catch up with you. It's funny because we haven't talked in a few months, and if we would've just been on a FaceTime, this would've been the same conversation.

[03:26:08] Daniel: Yeah, yeah.

[03:26:10] Luke: And I was like, "What?" Maybe a few more personal things. What's going on in your life, my life? You don't want it too.

[03:26:14] Daniel: Yeah, I know what you mean.

[03:26:15] Luke: Too personal or subjective, but I always love talking to you and listening to you. So I'm excited for your podcast, dude. I think I've listened to just about every WildFed episode too, which is funny because I'm not even like into that. You know what I mean?

[03:26:34] But it's like I want to be into it. And again, there's a part of me that's like, you really should be into this. You should be out hunting and gathering and learning plants and animals, and you should get to the point where processing an animal doesn't gross you out because it's not supposed to gross you out.

[03:26:51] You're brainwashed from fucking horror movies in the '80s. You know what I mean? And cartoons when you were a kid. So yeah, I think your work is just so fascinating, because it stretches me in the way that I think about things and the way that I'm able to recontextualize things. So I'm super excited for your new venture. It's going to be amazing.

[03:27:14] Daniel: That means a lot to me, man. Because seeing all you're doing, it's really impressive. And from the outside it's like, geez, how's he pulling this off? It's incredible. And I have so much respect for what you're doing. So knowing I've got your support feels really good, sincerely.

[03:27:27] Luke: 100%, dude. Come back on when your show launches. We'll have another chat. There's obviously no shortage of things to talk about with you.

[03:27:37] Daniel: I'd love to.

[03:27:39] Luke: All right. God bless. We'll talk soon.

[03:27:40] Daniel: Thanks, Luke.