[00:00:50] Luke Storey: One thing that's great about, um, having a conversation with you, Cal, is, um, I don't have to be concerned if my teeth are black and gray

[00:00:58] Cal Callahan: Yeah, you're my

[00:01:00] Luke Storey: I always have my little stash over here, you know? Yeah. And if, if I don't know the person that well, it's a little bit funny sometimes.

[00:01:05] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[00:01:06] Luke Storey: Just like, "Ignore me.

[00:01:07] Luke Storey: Just keep- ... keep talking." Yeah. And I-

[00:01:10] Cal Callahan: They don't know... Yeah, they're not sure, like, when you do that, like, I'm on for at least a minute more.

[00:01:15] Luke Storey: Totally.

[00:01:16] Cal Callahan: Yes.

[00:01:16] Luke Storey: Yeah, otherwise we're gonna have the puff, the magic dragon.

[00:01:20] Cal Callahan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:01:22] Luke Storey: Yeah, it's funny. It's, it's kind of a hard thing to explain to people, but sometimes I'll get caught, and then, like, they're expecting a response, and I'm like, "I'm not ready.

[00:01:30] Luke Storey: I have my mouth full."

[00:01:31] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[00:01:32] Luke Storey: Yeah. I just tell people I'm, I'm chewing a green smoothie or something. So where I wanna start with you, my friend, and by the way, it's so hilarious that we've, uh, been friends for quite a few years now, and I've been like, "Hey, come on the podcast sometime." It's classic. I'm sure the audience, uh, the regular lishen- listeners will know this.

[00:01:51] Luke Storey: It was the same thing with my friend Doyle.

[00:01:53] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:53] Luke Storey: I mean, I've been telling him, I'm like, "Yeah, come on the podcast anytime." "Oh, we'll do it. We'll do it." It's, it's taken me, like, five years to get him on, [00:02:00] you know? So same thing with you. When your book, Unlearn, for those watching the video, um, when your book was coming out, I was like, "Hey, come on and do your book."

[00:02:07] Luke Storey: You're like, "Yeah, okay, whatever." You're such a, um, non-promotional-

[00:02:11] Cal Callahan: Mm ...

[00:02:12] Luke Storey: kind of guy, you know? But now it's actually out, so I'm like, "Okay." I'm like, "Let's let people know what you're all about." So I'm stoked to have this conversation. Uh, where I wanna start is I wanna go to the nitty-gritty of the gnarly of the gnarlys.

[00:02:27] Luke Storey: Um, tell me what was happening in the 15 minutes leading up to the Vegas shooting at which you were a survivor.

[00:02:39] Cal Callahan: Yeah, so for those who don't remember, and a lot of people kind of forget that the largest mass shooting on US soil happened in Las Vegas at the Route 91 Fest, which-

[00:02:54] Luke Storey: The media memory holed it, like, so fast.

[00:02:57] Cal Callahan: It was in the news cycle for three days.

[00:02:59] Luke Storey: [00:03:00] Yeah.

[00:03:00] Cal Callahan: And that's a whole separate podcast. Someone that, you know, I- our, our, our friend Ian Carroll did a, a great one with Tucker Carlson at the end of the year that if you wanna know more about actually what happened in Vegas, I'm not gonna go into it today, because it's a whole thing, fascinating.

[00:03:19] Luke Storey: Yeah, that was a really good breakdown.

[00:03:20] Cal Callahan: Right?

[00:03:21] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:03:21] Cal Callahan: Again, three days it was in the news cycle, something that, um, none of the theories ended up making any sense, and there's a reason for that. But yeah, man, I was at the concert, uh, Sunday night, Route 91 Fest. Jason Aldean was playing. I was there with a buddy of mine who happened to be friends with Jason, so we were, you know, kinda in the great kinda VIP section, side stage, and I, I was getting pretty tired.

[00:03:48] Cal Callahan: We'd had a long weekend in Vegas. And I wanted to save it for after the show. We were gonna meet up with the guys after the show. I'm like, "All right, I'm gonna go home, take a nap for, like, an hour, and then we'll hook [00:04:00] up after." My buddy, Ad- Adam's like, "Okay, just one more beer." I'm like, "Okay, I'll have one more beer."

[00:04:08] Cal Callahan: So we went over to the VIP tent to get the beer, and as we're just about ready to part ways, we're, we're probably five minutes or so where I'm gonna start heading towards the hotel, which was where the firing was coming from. I wasn't staying at Mandalay, but we were staying in that area. Adam and I are like, "What's going on?"

[00:04:32] Cal Callahan: You know? So everything was obviously great up until then. The f- the shooting starts to happen, and my first reaction is someone's lighting off firecrackers. Kinda pissed, 'cause I couldn't really hear the sounds. Like, kind of what the fuck? Continues. Uh, I then think, well, maybe there's some sort of, uh, power line shorting.

[00:04:52] Cal Callahan: It was a weird kinda cracking sound. Uh, and then that didn't really track [00:05:00] either. And so Adam and I found ourselves behind these tour buses, which were in between where the shooting was coming from and right behind us was the stage We kind of huddle in as close as we can to the tour bus, and I wanna say there were 50, 60 people there.

[00:05:19] Cal Callahan: No one knows what's going on. One guy in the back is kind of directing traffic like, "Hey, everybody, there's shooting going on. Get as close as you can to the tour bus. Think you'll be fine." Someone had gotten hit in the period of the shooting in kind of back of where we were, like hit in the arm. The, the guy who was former military identified what type of bullets they were.

[00:05:43] Cal Callahan: He's like, "If you get hit, you'll be fine unless you get hit someplace critical, but they're not," whatever, more, more lethal than maybe some of us were expecting. And then we were there for probably 10 minutes just taking cover, and then [00:06:00] the, the, the shots stop, and after a few more minutes, the SWAT team's like, "You guys go.

[00:06:06] Cal Callahan: Go this direction opposite of where the, the firing was coming. If you hear shots, like, take cover, basically, but just go as far as you can in that direction as fast as you can." And so we did. And on the way out, there were, there were people in some, you know, pretty bad shape. We ended up helping one woman that was, was injured, shot, I think, in the, the kind of gut area.

[00:06:29] Cal Callahan: Helped her over a fence to get her a little bit more assistance, and then we just kept going. And on our way to walk past, uh, back to the casino, that wasn't an option anymore. Everything was on shutdown, so we just kept walking as far as we could until we ended up, I mean, it must have been 20, 30 minutes later, at, uh, a hospital where they were staging ambulances.

[00:06:54] Cal Callahan: Um, excuse me, it was a fire station where they were s- uh, station- stationing, stationing [00:07:00] ambulances. So we just sat there for a while. They're like, "You can't come inside, but you're welcome to just be here." We eventually get an Uber to where Aldean's team was staying out in Henderson. Get an Uber, go out there, get to the house.

[00:07:16] Cal Callahan: W- everyone's watching the news like, "What the fuck just happened?" And, um, eventually fall asleep, wake up, head back to the hotel in the morning, so this is Monday, and then I flew back to Austin. So a lot going on just in the, like, kind of that's kind of the, the sequence of events. But you can imagine in the period of time where w- we didn't know what was going on, didn't know if there were multiple shooters, didn't know if they were coming to the concert grounds.

[00:07:50] Cal Callahan: I'm in this state of, "What's going on?" Almost like a l- a bit of a life review happened, and [00:08:00] I had this deep s- sense of, like, sadness and

[00:08:09] Cal Callahan: Like, ugh You know, like, a, a lack of fulfillment doesn't really cover it. But I realized in that moment that the life that I had been building and creating and was really proud of and had, you know, in so many ways overachieved anything I could have imagined as a young kid, and that was my North Star, just continue to build this life.

[00:08:36] Cal Callahan: I, I realized in that moment that this wasn't the life I was meant to live. Like, none of those things were coming to save me in that moment, and I didn't even really know what that meant. But it felt very empty. And I wasn't afraid of dying, and I think, uh, you know, from what I can sense in those situations, it doesn't really cross people's minds 'cause it's such a [00:09:00] different situation that, you know, I'd never been in, where literally I had to surrender my life.

[00:09:06] Cal Callahan: Like, I don't know, I can't defend myself if someone's coming around. Like, that whole part of the brain turns off and you're just ... Your body listens to, like, sur- in, in survival mode. And so whatever this guy was saying, I really trusted him, who was kind of managing our group, and so I just listened, and I didn't necessarily think about the consequences of not existing anymore.

[00:09:27] Cal Callahan: Like, it, it just, it just didn't cross my mind, but I got very clear on what I was meant to do in the situation. And again, just left there like, "What?" Like, "What, what was that?" Like ... And it took me quite a long time, um, almost a year and a half until I really understood what had maybe awoken in me in that moment, and it was that I'd been living my life using a certain playbook for a long time, and it's, it's, [00:10:00] it's a, it's a very, uh, familiar playbook for most people that want to achieve and have success in our culture.

[00:10:10] Cal Callahan: Um, but fortunately for me, it, it woke me up out of that dream that this is the thing that's gonna provide fulfillment and, and fill that void that, you know, I finally realized that I was trying to fill. And so that just took me on a journey, um, kinda unconsciously for a while, but then it became like, oh, this is actually why I'm here.

[00:10:33] Cal Callahan: I'm here to find out why I'm here. And as I got deeper into that work over the last eight-plus years, it started to come to me in, in, in, in different frameworks. You know, o- one of the ones that's been kind of most relevant for me recently is I'm, I'm here to kind of learn my blind spots and show up at the altar, whatever that altar is, whatever the prayer is, to [00:11:00] be like, "Show me what I'm not seeing from, you know, what's in the way for me right now.

[00:11:06] Cal Callahan: What are these old patterns?" And there's many different ways to do it, which I discuss in the book obviously, and you and I have Had a fair amount of work with plant medicines. We've had a lot of work with men's work. Um, I've done silent meditations. I've, I've, I've really tried to do just about everything because I'm curious to use these different strategies to show me a different version of me, a different perspective on how I'm moving through the world in relationship with my wife, Peyton, with my kids, with my friends, with finances, my relationship to the podcast, this book.

[00:11:42] Cal Callahan: Like, what does that feel like? We have all these ideas until we get into the process. You know, that's where I, I feel like the... You know, it's been my podcast for the past six years is The Great Unlearn. It-- like, to really get in to [00:12:00] those parts of us that we can't see, we gotta be real honest with ourselves.

[00:12:06] Cal Callahan: And, um, yeah, I've just, I've had a lot of great mentors along the way who have held that line for me. And i-in a lot of ways, I've just tried to follow in their footsteps and then find my own way with whatever the different practices, medicines, whatever they are, just get curious about how I'm meant to work with these things.

[00:12:28] Luke Storey: It's interesting that, um, that tragedy ended up being a catalyst for you because it's something that is-- I mean, you're experiencing it, but it's external to you, right? Where a lot of people, uh, might achieve a certain level of success in their career and things like that as you did, you know, you function at a really high level, um, in terms of the way our culture measures success, you were having all of that.

[00:12:56] Luke Storey: And oftentimes it's something that's more [00:13:00] Internally based, you know, you h- you know, you get into addiction or have some sort of internal crisis that causes you to pause and kind of evaluate yourself and your life. It's interesting that you know, you're just living your life out in Vegas at a concert and something that, uh, dramatic happens outside of you that y- you didn't contribute to that kind of, you know, if you wanna call it hitting a bottom or awakening, right?

[00:13:30] Luke Storey: It's like most of us, I think-

[00:13:31] Cal Callahan: Mm ...

[00:13:32] Luke Storey: make decisions in our lives that eventually, you know, paint us into a corner and cause us to have to look at ourselves and, you know. The percentage of people that probably do look at themselves when they're painted in a corner is, is exceedingly small

[00:13:45] Cal Callahan: you know?

[00:13:45] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. But that's how it was for me, and most people I know.

[00:13:47] Luke Storey: It's like you're charging through life, doing the best you can, making, you know, not the greatest decisions, and ultimately you have to face yourself. But I find your, the beginning of your awakening interesting 'cause you [00:14:00] were just in the right place at the right time/wrong place at the wrong time-

[00:14:04] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm

[00:14:04] Luke Storey: simultaneously, you know? It's, it's interesting that, that it, it's kind of like a, you know, a near-death experience that causes you to have that life review and start to inventory who you are and what you're all about. But it's like I wonder if and when that would've happened had you not gone that night, right?

[00:14:24] Luke Storey: The, the, the karmic sort of side of it. Would you just have kept plodding along, and maybe your marriage, you know, didn't work out? Or something else could've fallen apart that was more personal to you. But it's like there was an intervention prior to that happening that just p- put you on course to evolve.

[00:14:44] Cal Callahan: Yeah, I think that's a great, great observation. I hadn't really thought about it i- in, in such that way. Uh, I was definitely having signs in my life that were showing me, "Come on, man, this is not it." [00:15:00] And I wasn't, like, awake enough to pick up on those signs. Now, had this experience not happened, I'm, I'm quite certain my life would've fallen off the rails in some way.

[00:15:13] Cal Callahan: And what the outcome of that would've been, I have no idea. I don't know that I would feel as good about where things are in my life, uh, particularly with my relationship with my wife and my kids, uh, if that hadn't happened. I mean, I definitely had my bouts with dependency. I don't know if it dipped into addiction.

[00:15:36] Cal Callahan: I don't really even know what the differences are, but I had those things in my life that I was turning to, to not face what wanted to be faced, not feel what wanted to be felt. And, and Vegas opened me up to a, kind of a new version of me, of living, of what maybe a legacy looks like or, or really [00:16:00] just, holy shit, I, I don't really know anything.

[00:16:04] Cal Callahan: Everything that I believe was told to me, right? Which you've been in the deep study of, and that was like my awakening to this, this unlearning, seeing things a completely different way. And, you know, it took me many more years, I would say. It wasn't until 2020, three-plus years later, where this whole other world opened up to me, you know, which I think happened for a lot of people with what happened, you know, starting in 2020.

[00:16:33] Cal Callahan: But You know, I'm thankful I was on the path when that was happening 'cause I was much more open to life being much different l- than, than what I had, uh, perceived it to be. But yeah, man, even after that, and even after I had done my fir- first plant medicine ceremony that I felt was really beautiful and helpful, I definitely still had struggles in my relationship, and I had a, a couple [00:17:00] seasons in the last six years where, oof, I thought, I thought I had it figured out, you know, with the awakening, the plant medicines, and I was told pretty clearly, not necessarily with the direct words, but from my relationship with my wife that, "Bro, you got work to do."

[00:17:20] Cal Callahan: And, um, that was confronting. It's like, "I thought I had all the answers." It's like, "No, bro, you gotta integrate this shit, man." Yeah. That's what they keep saying, and, and until you actually start to integrate stuff, you don't understand that you're not integrating it. And, and I, you know, made the mistake that I think many people make when they go into these areas, and, uh, you know, these plant medicines can give you insight into how things are.

[00:17:49] Cal Callahan: You get to view your life almost in a d- disassociated sense of, like, really acceptance. And- You

[00:17:58] Luke Storey: get a, you get, like, a [00:18:00] rarefied objectivity window.

[00:18:02] Cal Callahan: That's, that's it.

[00:18:03] Luke Storey: Right? Where you can kind of... It's, you might meditate for 20, 30 years to build that observer witness position, where you're able to kind of step out of yourself and see yourself in your, the whole picture, right?

[00:18:17] Luke Storey: And those medicine experiences can be so revelatory, but it is also really easy to forget what you saw.

[00:18:26] Cal Callahan: You know? It fades.

[00:18:27] Luke Storey: Yeah. You come back out, and the habituation, right, the inertia of the way that you think and feel and operate in the world, um, if it's not... It was my experience, if I haven't really taken steps to interrupt that and pivot in a big way, I'll just sort of fall back into that same pattern.

[00:18:45] Luke Storey: Yeah. I observed that the other day. I, I did a, uh, episode, I think it actually came out this week, about Kambo, you know? Mm-hmm. And, uh, the practitioner who I had on, um, is great, and, um, I had a feeling she might ask me if I wanted to do it, and I was like, [00:19:00] "Hell no." I did that, I don't know, maybe in 2016, '15. I forget when it was.

[00:19:04] Luke Storey: A long time ago, I did one, and it was brutal. But I've been really using the mambé and the, you know, the nicotine and stuff a lot, and so by the end of that conversation, I thought, "You know, let's give it a shot." So we did a ceremony up here, and it was, it was really nice. She didn't give me too much. It wasn't incredibly intense.

[00:19:21] Luke Storey: And, um, I've st- I think I've told you this story, but just for those listening that might have habits, you know? I wouldn't say, like, addictions per se, but just attachments, habits to things, whether it's sugar, social media, whatever. And I was sensing I was a little more attached than I would like to be, so that was kind of the intention that I set.

[00:19:40] Luke Storey: And, um, and over the course of the couple days after that, I was like, "Wow," I felt, like, this totally detached from some of those habits. And, um, I thought, "Well, I'm good now." And then after a couple days, I started using it again. It just went full-blown, 100% back on every day, all day, you know? I was like, "Oh, that was such a good lesson."

[00:19:59] Luke Storey: And, [00:20:00] you know, I was given a little window of, uh, of freedom of choice there, and I took the choice back and thought that I could kinda manage it again, and quickly learned, like, nah, you're right back, right back to where you were, you know? It's interesting. It's just, it's difficult to interrupt habits.

[00:20:16] Cal Callahan: It is, and I think that's a great example, too, because we do, we get a glimpse.

[00:20:20] Cal Callahan: We see it, we feel it, but it's fleeting. It's not doing 20, 30 years of it, boom, and we're changing something. And underneath, for me, like, what I saw that felt objectively true and allowed my ego to just chill and, and me to see, like, "Oh, it's kinda not your fault in some ways. Okay, phew, I can get over that.

[00:20:42] Cal Callahan: I can accept this is where I'm at." Okay, so what are the steps? And the steps are, for me, it's been finding those patterns that got embedded, um, or planted with the work we did with Kyle Corsi, that that seed that was [00:21:00] planted is not until I'm able to get to some of those core seeds when I was a young kid that I perceived a relationship with my dad a particular way, and then I adapted in a way to earn his love, be valuable, achieve whatever.

[00:21:17] Cal Callahan: Um, i- it's not until that work with Kyle that I started to see those things and I started to let go of them. And my relationship to substances completely changed after the work with Kyle. Now, what I'll say is What's been really cool about it, so I did the work with Kyle, it's been f- almost four months since I did it, and about a month ago, I recognized that I was back to using cannabis a bit.

[00:21:51] Cal Callahan: And it became apparent to me after three or four days of why, and i- it was that there was some, [00:22:00] like, distortion in my life, some old pattern that wanted to come to the surface, and I was numbing myself to not feel, like, the angst or the anxiety of what was coming up. Um, and so m- my, I feel like my system's much more clear, so then when I drop into these old behaviors, I can actually identify why.

[00:22:28] Cal Callahan: It's not just such a like, "Fuck, it could be anything." I know what's being asked of me right now, and it's happened even over the last couple days. I've been, definitely had a few gummies over the weekend and was chilling, and which felt good, but it's like, "Okay, dude-" "... this is an old part of your playbook that was a significant part and you've let go of a lot of it, but there's still some pieces in there that you need to explore and release."

[00:22:56] Cal Callahan: And, and so I, I don't know that I'll ever, [00:23:00] like, have the relationship in a constant way that I did right after the work with Kyle, and I don't even know if I need to. I think what's really cool is I've been able to identify, uh, when I'm, when I'm really trying to avoid what wants to be, you know, worked with right now.

[00:23:24] Luke Storey: A more clear self-awareness.

[00:23:27] Cal Callahan: I think so, yeah. You know? But I still don't fucking know. I'm still as curious, like, "Is that really what's going on?" I mean, it works for me right now, and it's calling me into the center of the circle. Like, "Okay, dude, like sharpen up, like put the gummies away for a little bit, work on this, and then, like let's see what unfolds from there."

[00:23:49] Cal Callahan: But it, it's been, for me, the past three years has been A pretty intense at times, you know, initiation. And for me in [00:24:00] particular, it's, it's around finances, and it's around w- what, what, you know, this idea I had around making money and achievement in that space and what it was gonna provide for me, uh, from a young age.

[00:24:20] Cal Callahan: And it, and it kinda did all those things and a lot more, but, but I, I wasn't really clear on the shadow side. And I think, you know, I've done so much in the world of investing, whether it's real estate or, uh, some venture capital stuff, uh, consumer packaged goods. Like, there's been a lot of things that I've been involved with over the last 25 years and, and some things worked out really well And it's just not a strategy that's working for me going forward.

[00:24:54] Cal Callahan: So I'm in the process of taking this playbook, which was working really well, [00:25:00] not as well for the reasons I thought, and so I got pretty humbled there, which needed to happen. And so I'm trying to pick out the pieces of, like, my trading career, which, you know, what were the things that made me a really successful trader?

[00:25:14] Cal Callahan: Knowing when to move on from an investment, you know, and, and, and really that humility to take a loss on something that I thought was a, a really good bet. And I did that for 18 years, so I have a deep practice in that. But I, I, I wasn't translating enough of that experience into my kinda everyday life. A- and so it's been a, a real deep inquiry, painful at times, but, but a way for me to look at everything and say, "What of these things are serving me and will serve me in the future, and what is no longer serving me?

[00:25:50] Cal Callahan: And how can I kind of, in a lot of ways, untangle these things to create the life I want going forward?" It's a little bit like what we were talking [00:26:00] about before we got on. It's like I f- I feel like this last three years has been, like, a big season, but in particular, you know, at the end of the year I had something that really forced me into clarity and, and right now it, it's...

[00:26:15] Cal Callahan: there's, like, another wave of it, which has been great because had that last wave been the one, I... There's a piece that came up for me recently over the weekend that I recognized, like, oh, it's time to, to let go of this, and I didn't know that I would've done that a month ago. And I feel pretty clear about that, and I, and I see the freedom that I'm actually seeking on the o- the side of that.

[00:26:43] Cal Callahan: You know, so it's really... I've spent so many years of my life, I'm 54 now, you know. I, I started making pretty decent money in my, my mid-20s, and so I've been on a almost 30-year accumulation phase. And it was apparent to me a [00:27:00] couple, maybe three years ago, that all this accumulation was really creating this anchor and, like, so much to manage.

[00:27:08] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:27:10] Cal Callahan: Then it's like I got the experience of all these things, and what of these things do I actually want in my life? And it's not many of them. And so I need to actually also not go to an old pattern, which is just fucking burn it down and just start getting rid of shit. Um, because when I'm done, I'm done.

[00:27:33] Cal Callahan: And, uh, I'm choosing not to do that. I'm choosing how to let go in a, in a good way. And it's not about getting the best price either because that can conflate my decision-making. Um, sometimes you just have to take... I mean, actually, almost always you have to take what the market bears. And so even if I think something that I'm holding is worth significantly more, if it's the [00:28:00] thing I need to move and the market is not necessarily where I want it to be, I still may need to transact there, and that's something that I, I'm hoping all my years of showing the benefit of that while I was trading, taking like a big financial loss because it freed me up to do other things.

[00:28:18] Cal Callahan: Um, and so that's what I'm feeling in my own life. These things that I'm holding onto, a bet that I thought was a good bet in my own life, is holding me back from, uh, really experiencing the life that I wanna, wanna experience. And so there's a lot in there that I've already had a deep experience with that I'm just trying to translate in a good way

[00:28:47] Luke Storey: I used to think burnout was just the price you had to pay for being productive. Then I found something that helps me stay focused for as long as I need without feeling smoked afterward. It's called NuCalm. It uses a neuroacoustic [00:29:00] software to help shift out of fight or flight and into deep recovery in, like, ten minutes.

[00:29:04] Luke Storey: And the cool thing is there's no gadgets to buy or haul around. You just throw on headphones, open the app, and within minutes, you start to downshift or upshift if that's what you're looking for. I've been busy writing a book for the past couple years, and it's one of the most mentally demanding things I've ever done.

[00:29:19] Luke Storey: I'm talking hours and hours of deep focus, revisiting old memories, and organizing a ton of ideas. So before I start a writing session, I'll use one of their Flow State tracks to get me into zen. Then I'll lock in with a focus track for the next few hours of writing. And I'll tell you what, my wife can attest to this.

[00:29:36] Luke Storey: When I have those headphones on, it's literally impossible to distract me. I'm like a machine. Then afterward, I'll use Recharge or Rescue to help my brain and body recover from hours of intense work. Just twenty minutes of that feels like a full nervous system reset, and NuCalm science supports that. I highly recommend you check out NuCalm, and here's how you do it.

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[00:30:21] Luke Storey: And whether or not you buy it, I highly recommend you at least give yourself seven days for free You're the only close friend I have that comes from such a different world. You know, when I first met you and you said, "Oh, you know, I built this," I don't even know what it's called, trading firm? You know, it's like a world I know nothing about.

[00:30:42] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. The stock market, finance, like I'm just totally clueless. Uh, in fact, I was taking, um, a- Elizabeth, uh, Ralph's course-

[00:30:50] Cal Callahan: Yeah ...

[00:30:51] Luke Storey: you know, recently, and I was really busy with my book stuff, so I missed a few of them. I think I missed the ones in the beginning where she's like, "This is what the [00:31:00] stock market is."

[00:31:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. "This is how you get, like, I don't know, you, you join this Schwab website or whatever. This is how you buy stocks." Like, I missed that whole part. Mm. So I still don't understand it, but, um, I just love that you came from such a different world and now we share this world, but when you talk about your past, it's still so vague to me.

[00:31:20] Luke Storey: But what I find interesting, and this is where, uh, I'd love to hear your, uh, your, your answers to this, is like, okay, so you were really financially successful pretty young, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you beat the game as the game is laid out in, in Western culture, right? Get financial security, build wealth, become somebody, build a name, et cetera.

[00:31:41] Luke Storey: You get some security and significance, and you know, there's a lot of benefits to becoming wealthy. Um, what I wonder is it's like if, if you're who you are today and some of your energy is going to worrying about, worrying [00:32:00] about money or worrying about decisions you have to make and, you know, kind of playing the Monopoly board of what you want to do with your assets and investments and things like that, it seems to me, and this has been my experience, that it doesn't really matter how much money I make in relation to how much I worry about my decisions, my future, what does this all look like, right?

[00:32:22] Luke Storey: It's like I think I'm more successful in that regard at this point in my life at 55 than I ever have been, yet I honestly feel broke all the time, and, like, I-- there's not enough, and it's like my lifestyle just always kind of rises to meet whatever, uh, you know, whatever income. And so it seems like the mindset of, like, worrying about that s-side of your life is more important than actually fixing that part of your life, right?

[00:32:55] Luke Storey: 'Cause if you transposed me into my life 20 years ago with, like, what my overhead was at [00:33:00] that time, I mean, I, I'm, like, totally rich at the moment, right? But it's like have you-- I guess the question is have you found that no matter where you are on that spectrum of financial security or wealth, that you'll, you-- like, your concerns about it and your worry will just rise with it?

[00:33:19] Luke Storey: Has that been your experience? Or did you ever get to a point where you're like, "Ah, I don't need to think about this anymore," like, "I'm good. I could basically retire, and I don't need to spend my time and energy You know, trying to get this all right.

[00:33:32] Cal Callahan: Yeah, I think it's a great question and-

[00:33:33] Luke Storey: In other wo- in other words, maybe I could say it like this.

[00:33:35] Luke Storey: Like, I think many of us think there's a point at which we will have made it, right? Mm-hmm. And we hit this point where we're like, we're secure, we have enough invested, and we're good, and then life will just get easy and we won't have to worry about it anymore. But it seems like you know, the few people I know that have really achieved success in that area say you kind of never stop worrying about it until you change your mindset and reframe it.

[00:33:57] Luke Storey: And I get the sense that's kind of what you've been doing for the [00:34:00] past couple years.

[00:34:01] Cal Callahan: Yeah, e- exactly. So I always tried to live below my means, no matter how much money I was making. Uh, a- and I did that for quite a long time. So for a long time, yeah, I had no care in the world about that. And then we moved to, to Austin here in 2013.

[00:34:19] Cal Callahan: I had gotten out of trading, and I, you know, had a g- good chunk of capital from, you know, when I was trading that was in the company. And I just started to put it into work and to- in the market in different ways. And it was churning and it was making money, and that was great. A- and so as that happened, much like you, I was rising a little bit more to that level of how much money I was making.

[00:34:48] Cal Callahan: So I wasn't adhering to live below my means. And I'm quite certain a lot of that was just, uh, unchecked ego stuff. I did a pretty [00:35:00] good job in keeping it subtle, not ostentatious, but I started to accumulate. And A lot of it's just personal properties that are expensive to, you know, the, the annual nut's pretty good.

[00:35:16] Cal Callahan: And when you've got money coming in all the time, that's not a big deal, but when the market has been what it's been over the last five years, it, it can be confronting. And so I think y- your observation's, is pretty accurate. It doesn't mean that even if you have a lot of fi- financial success, you're gonna have the shit that I did.

[00:35:41] Cal Callahan: That was just my journey with it. I've known this, you know, for th- when this came, I've had it a few times. You know, maybe I think in like 2016, '17, there was another kind of little blip where I had to deal with it. Got through that. Everything was humming along again. [00:36:00] And then over this past one, I remember early on, um, I, I was, like, super frustrated with myself.

[00:36:06] Cal Callahan: I'm like, "Dude, how the fuck did you get in this situation? You've got all this net worth. Like, what are you... Like, how did this happen?" And it's taken me a long time of that serious, honest inquiry to see all my parts in that, and I'm still uncovering it, for sure. But it's, I think it's just like anything else, at least for me, just these old ways of being, um, seeing what's, what, what's the gold to take with me and what actually needs to be changed, and what am I actually here for, you know?

[00:36:42] Cal Callahan: And what we talked about with Kyle, for me, it's freedom and, and it's connection. I get... Connection's pretty easy for me, whether it's with my family, with my podcast. I, I love having these conversations. It's really meaningful to me. It's our men's group. [00:37:00] Uh, I, I love just being around the guys once a week with no agenda.

[00:37:06] Cal Callahan: Whatever's coming up is coming up. We can talk about some heavy shit or we can talk about some funny conspiracy theories. Like, we talk about it all. Um, a- and that's a, a really a deep place of connection for me. And when I find myself in groups where there's not that type of energy, now I'm just like, "Okay, cool," but it's not my group where I know I'm gonna meet and connect with people like you a- and, and other brothers where we're just talking about meaningful stuff, and so that's important to me.

[00:37:41] Cal Callahan: And whether I go up to Idaho for the summer or when I go play golf in Florida, I'm interested in how to connect, 'cause l- l- those two places aren't like our brotherhood in Austin in any way. There's a few people that- I don't even know if they could be in our, our... You know, they're, [00:38:00] they're not even to the level of understanding and curiosity about personal work, but they're, they're on their journey.

[00:38:08] Cal Callahan: I love those relationships because they look at me, who've had a similar upbringing to them in a sense of our careers, but I'm doing something completely different. You know? I'm kind of blending these two worlds of, you know, a traditional financial success pathway and why the fuck am I here, and I'm willing to look at everything that I thought was awesome about me and You know, yeah, change the narrative on that.

[00:38:47] Cal Callahan: Um, and so I think in that case, I give those guys the courage to just look a little deeper. You know, I try to meet those guys where they're at, and I try to blow their minds every now and then with some good conspiracies.

[00:38:59] Luke Storey: You- [00:39:00] you're like the, uh, Trojan horse of the golf club.

[00:39:04] Cal Callahan: Totally. I fuck with the guys.

[00:39:05] Cal Callahan: It's awesome.

[00:39:05] Luke Storey: Dropping little breadcrumbs, you know, into the, into the, uh, the rabbit hole.

[00:39:10] Cal Callahan: Oh, yeah.

[00:39:10] Luke Storey: Um, when we first met, I think I first met you over at your house. This is, you know, in... We moved here in '21, right? So the COVID thing was, like, really happening, and Austin was, uh, kind of a safe haven for refugees that had lived in more authoritarian states and cities and things like that.

[00:39:29] Luke Storey: And so there was, there was, like, a very strong sense of community here. I think it's-- We, you know, we, we were kind of all in a bomb shelter together, right? It's like, there was a lot of gatherings, and we would do these workouts at your house, and you have this really beautiful property and amazing home gym.

[00:39:46] Luke Storey: And, um, a- and then people kind of splintered off and siloed into their groups in, in a normal way as you would after a crisis, right? Everyone kind of figures out who they vibe with. Um, but it's been interesting getting to know [00:40:00] you because I felt like in the beginning, in those days, you were a bit... Maybe it was just 'cause we didn't know each other that well, but I got the sense you were a little bit reserved and, you know, I didn't really know what you were about.

[00:40:16] Luke Storey: There, there was, like, kind of parts of your life that you weren't that open about.

[00:40:21] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:22] Luke Storey: Um, and I'm sure, you know, the dynamic of our relationship has just changed. We've spent more time together and gotten closer. You've gone through a lot of changes. I have too. Uh, my question is this, though. It's like, when you-- even though you're not a showy, ostentatious kind of person, you know, you're a wealthy guy, right?

[00:40:39] Luke Storey: And I'm sure people around here know that. But you're also not the guy who's, like, rocking the Rolex and trying to make it about that, right? I think you, you know, because you've had a lot of experience in that realm, um, and being successful quite young, y- like most classy people that have become wealthy, they don't show it 'cause it's just cringe.

[00:40:59] Luke Storey: [00:41:00] You know? You just, you know. And if you're around people that are billionaires and you're worth a few million, you realize, like, "Oh, that's even more cringe," right?

[00:41:08] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:08] Luke Storey: So the, the question is this. It's like, um, I noticed when I was working in Hollywood, for example, there's a great parallel here, uh, here. I was doing that for fifteen years, working with celebrities, right?

[00:41:18] Luke Storey: And it's like after some time, I realized How cringe it is when you're, when people are, like, transactional and parasitic around a celebrity. You know, whether the celebrity has a lot of money or not, there's, like, people seek significance or some sort of benefit from, from jostling in, into a closer position with said celebrity, right?

[00:41:45] Luke Storey: There's, like, this succubus, whether it's conscious or not, where people want access and they want proximity because they, they want to siphon something from that person. And I always wondered with you, you know, have [00:42:00] you had to kind of protect yourself and be mindful of people wanting to grab at you because they know that you've achieved financial success and that you, you know, you have resources?

[00:42:12] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:12] Luke Storey: Is, is that ever something you run into, where you're, like, having to really check someone's motives or have boundaries or really pace yourself with people because whether conscious or not, they have an ulterior motive, that they, they want or need something from you, and that there's a transactional nature to the way they relate to you?

[00:42:30] Cal Callahan: Oh, yeah. No.

[00:42:31] Luke Storey: Tell me, tell me about that.

[00:42:33] Cal Callahan: Yeah. Uh, I was on some level, like, unaware Like exactly what was going on, but there were, particularly in that group, there weren't a lot. You know, we'd have 45 guys come over and work out, but there were certain people in that group that I could tell, yeah, they had...

[00:42:53] Cal Callahan: There, there was something transactional. There was something that they thought they could get from me, you know? And so I, I, I had [00:43:00] I guess my guard up a little bit with those guys, but even still, like, I wasn't aware enough where I could just shut it down. And so sometimes I would engage them, uh, and maybe even do a little something, and then eventually be like, "Ah, this...

[00:43:15] Cal Callahan: Something doesn't feel right." Now, Peyton was tracking this the whole time.

[00:43:18] Luke Storey: Of course.

[00:43:18] Cal Callahan: Like, "Not, not all these guys are your friends or whatever." We,

[00:43:22] Luke Storey: we share something in common of having wives with a lot of discernment-

[00:43:26] Cal Callahan: Oh my gosh ...

[00:43:27] Luke Storey: like X-ray vision into people. Yeah.

[00:43:29] Cal Callahan: And, and I really, to be honest, really lacked that.

[00:43:32] Cal Callahan: Um, particularly even in that time in 2020, 2021, even 2022, it, it took me a while to understand, uh, how to set boundaries. And, and I did a decent job thinking about, "Okay, this is... I need to come up with some sort of reason I, I don't, can't go to coffee with this person," because I [00:44:00] just wasn't super clear. I didn't, still didn't know who I was.

[00:44:03] Luke Storey: Mm.

[00:44:04] Cal Callahan: I was still, yeah, unsure of that. And for me, when I was unsure of that, there was still a neediness. There was still a wanting to be liked. I didn't wanna be- come across a particular way. And, um, it really took me until the last six months to get a, a clear sense of that, and it, nothing became more clear than when, you know, when I worked with Kyle.

[00:44:31] Cal Callahan: But along the way, I started to get better with my boundaries. I started to trust, like, what I felt with this particular person versus what I was trying to make sense of intellectually. And when I let go of that, and that happened about a year ago actually. I remember particularly it was, it was a thing happening that we were involved with, and I was just getting a signal from a couple people.

[00:44:55] Cal Callahan: It's like, I don't know what it is. I could probably come up with some reasons, but they're like, "I'm [00:45:00] good here. I'm, I'm, I'm n- not, not interested in engaging anymore." But to, to your original question, it, it was probably happening a lot more than I was aware of. But something was starting to get a bit uneasy.

[00:45:13] Cal Callahan: I was feeling a little bit, uh... Yeah, I was feeling a little bit like people were trying to take advantage of maybe my relationships. And for me I think my greatest currency is, is my relationships and the trust that I've built with, with people. Um, and a lot of people that are, for lack of a better term, like really famous, and Hall of Fame athletes.

[00:45:43] Cal Callahan: And because I've never asked for anything from them. Yeah. And I- I've, I've always even, you know, in the early days when I really wanted to fanboy some of these guys, I just held it back the best I could. [00:46:00] Um, and then over time I've built really meaningful relationships. And so w- with that, I, I've just... I've got a sense of when someone's doing that with me.

[00:46:13] Cal Callahan: And here's the, the, the twist for me, though. I used to be fucking annoyed with that. A- and now I'm like, "I get it. I f- there's something in me that they appreciate, that they like, 'I, I'm a little stuck here, and I think Cal may have a something here to help me through that.'" You know, I, so I try to be really generous.

[00:46:36] Cal Callahan: Doesn't mean I'm gonna go have coffee with them, but I don't get in the sense that someone's trying to take something from me. You know? Maybe in a few cases I'm like, "Dude, enough." Like, "I'm not engaging. I'm out." But generally, I have love for that person, but I'm not gonna go there. I, I know who I am, and I'm a good person, a good man, [00:47:00] and I'll be honest with you.

[00:47:01] Cal Callahan: And so that's been a, an important part of the whole thing for me i- is, is, uh, doing it with, with, without judgment or as little judgment as I can humanly do. Uh, 'cause I do understand where they're at is they're just needing some help, and they don't know the right way to ask it, in a sense.

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[00:49:00] Luke Storey: I've heard about, um, this th-thing that happens when people retire, that they start to get really depressed and anxious and sort of lack purpose. You know, you hear this a lot with men when they hit retirement age. They retire, and they think they're gonna be stoked 'cause they have all this freedom.

[00:49:17] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:18] Luke Storey: And then they find that, um, you know, they kinda fall into a depression, or they don't know what to do with themselves. And I've-- Whenever I've heard stories like that, I always think, "There's no way, like, that would ever happen for me. I'm good to retire today, dog." Like, I can think of a lot of fun things I could do that I would enjoy if I, if I didn't have to work, right?

[00:49:40] Luke Storey: So I've managed to find work that, you know, thankfully is meaningful to me and about which I have enough passion to keep doing it, like the work I'm doing here, if you could even call it work, having a conversation with a friend. But I've always felt like I'd be good to go. Like, I can't wait to not have to work.

[00:49:58] Luke Storey: Um, and you've been in a [00:50:00] position probably where you, you haven't had to work in a sense that many of us do. I mean, maybe you have your trading going on and investments and all that stuff that I know nothing about. But it's not like you're gonna be broke at the end of the month if you don't go out and generate some revenue through, you know, labor or starting a company.

[00:50:18] Luke Storey: I mean, you've had your podcast for years. You don't even monetize your podcast, you know?

[00:50:21] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:23] Luke Storey: Do you feel like... What do you think about that idea? Like, if someone doesn't have to work in terms of, you know, just paying for their living expenses, where does that, um, sense of purpose come in? And is that why you do some of these other things, like writing your book and having your podcast?

[00:50:40] Luke Storey: Is it a way for you to sort of bake meaning into your life? Because you've already had a career as a trader where that meant everything, and then at some point you were like, "Wow, this, the meaning I'm getting out of this is not worth, you know, the sacrifice I have to make to keep it going." So what do you think about just life purpose, meaning, [00:51:00] all of that when it's not a necessity for survival?

[00:51:04] Cal Callahan: Yeah, and it-- Yes, I, I think that's a huge thing to explore because for me, for so long, the purpose was to create wealth and generate more net worth, and that was like, that was the kind of program. And I think if, if I hadn't had what happened in Vegas or something after that that woke me up to there's more to life, the financial thing is one game within this whole series of games of life.

[00:51:41] Cal Callahan: W- when a lot of us stop identifying with that being the only game, I think that's a big transition for people, and we see that, yes, we still wanna make money. We still wanna live the lifestyle we wanna live, and maybe I wanna create even more wealth. But, like, right [00:52:00] now, uh, I'm in a place where what I've done to make money up until now is affording me the lifestyle of doing my podcast, which is where I, I get some, some deep learning from that, right?

[00:52:17] Cal Callahan: Um, obviously spend time with my family. Play golf. I like to play golf. I like to be in our men's group. I like to do things, go to events that are really meaningful to me, not just any event that looks kinda interesting. And then having the space to go to Colombia to learn about some different plant medicines, to go to Ecuador, to go anywhere, to travel around, to learn from different lineages.

[00:52:45] Cal Callahan: Uh, because the more I've explored that stuff, the, the more I realize I don't really know anything, and I, I wanna go have these experiences to show me how others have lived for [00:53:00] millennia and what is in that for me to learn. Uh, and, and, and so this is... I mean, if I had all the financial issues solved today, I could see for the next number of years traveling with Peyton, traveling with some friends, um, doing my podcast I don't know if I would do another book or anything like, like...

[00:53:27] Cal Callahan: But just, like, those things that are feeding my curiosity. Uh, so I do think for me it took realizing that I had put myself in a pickle with the finances, something that was, like, my superpower for a while, and it no longer was. And it, and it, it's allowed me to hopefully put that game in its proper position in the, the kinda hierarchy of my life.

[00:53:58] Cal Callahan: And it's important, [00:54:00] but it has way, uh, much less of an impact, although right now it has a, a significant impact. But when that is in the right place, it's just a part of the whole thing. Um, and that's, at least that's my assertion. That's what I feel like will happen when things c- you know, f- as they continue to unwind, and I get to that place where this is the life that I wanna live, like, right now, and it feels really meaningful, purposeful, getting involved with different initiatives that, uh, are just really important to me and my growth, my learning, and, and supporting others who are doing just great work and helping people get to know themselves better.

[00:54:49] Luke Storey: It sounds like when you were younger that you're ... I'm gonna put this on you. You tell me how much of it's true.

[00:54:57] Cal Callahan: Yeah, bring it. '

[00:54:58] Luke Storey: Cause it's, I'm sure [00:55:00] many people can relate, myself included. It's like when we lack self-worth, some of us think we can find it in net worth Right? It's like

[00:55:11] Cal Callahan: Hmm. Hell yeah ...

[00:55:13] Luke Storey: chasing that, um-

[00:55:14] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm

[00:55:14] Luke Storey: I'll be worthy when, I'll be worthy if, and what a gift I think it is in your life that you've been able to find that, you know, you, you took that as far as you could take it, right? And then found there was still something lacking. I'm in Chicago, I'm a trader, I gotta get the fuck out of here. This isn't what I'm meant to do, right?

[00:55:34] Luke Storey: And it's like, seems like your journey has been a lot about really finding out who you are and deriving your self-worth from within. And it seems like it would probably serve many of us to really out of the gate, and we're just not taught this, to focus on the self-worth, and it seems like the, the net worth and the abundance and the opportunities are more likely to be born out of that and [00:56:00] probably be more in alignment with our hi- our highest, um, our highest goals rather than more superficial material goals, right?

[00:56:09] Luke Storey: It's like if I'm really focused on self-worth, learning who I am, I'm gonna feel more deserving of abundance and be able to manifest things that actually serve my higher purpose rather than putting the cart before the horse, right? It's like we're sort of indoctrinated into this idea of success and where we're going to find significance and ultimately self-acceptance and self-love is from out there somewhere.

[00:56:37] Luke Storey: So that's something that I've observed. Also, what do you think about this idea? It's like, I think this goes back to what I was saying earlier, where this idea that the sense that I'm still struggling and chasing even though, like, I continue to be more successful in, in all areas of life, and it's like, um, it seems that if one [00:57:00] can't be in full gratitude, acceptance, um, and satisfaction with where you are right now in your life, so say, you know, I have the home I have, the marriage I have, the car, whatever, right, material friendships.

[00:57:15] Luke Storey: If I can't live in full gratitude and satisfaction in what I have now You could give me $100 million right now, and then I'm like, "Cool, now I get a house in Costa Rica, and I do this and that," whatever I would do with that, right? If I'm unable to be satisfied and really grateful and embodied in the life that I have now, you could put me in a different echelon of life, and I'll still be the same unsatisfied, ungrateful, fearful, craving, wanting, whatever shit I'm experiencing right now.

[00:57:44] Luke Storey: In other words, it doesn't matter how many levels you go up, you're still gonna be met with that, "It's not enough. I don't have enough," or, "I'm not enough." And so it makes sense to me that that would be the best primary goal, is to feel that sense [00:58:00] of accomplishment and worth in whatever it is that I'm looking for, security, to find that at whatever level I am, so that as the externals start to evolve and expand, I, I'm not dependent on that to feel okay, right?

[00:58:16] Luke Storey: It's again, it's like the, it's the getting the priorities, like, ass backwards kind of thing. What do you think about all of that?

[00:58:22] Cal Callahan: I think that's spot on. I, I, I think so many of us are in that first camp, and we chase this net worth thing. And it's great too to do that, and then get honest wherever you are in your life.

[00:58:41] Cal Callahan: Like, is it actually delivering on what I thought it would when I was told this? And to your point, until that gets sorted out You know, three years ago I could have been given $100 million and I would have found myself in this [00:59:00] situation. Would have taken a little bit of time, but because I didn't have a proper relationship with w- what net worth was actually going to do for me, uh, I had this other idea that it was gonna bring me all these other things.

[00:59:18] Cal Callahan: Yeah, that pattern needs to change, and I think for most of us, it's when we're fucking faced with something that we didn't want to face, that we didn't think was gonna happen three years ago, and yet it did, and it comes down to net worth replacing, to your point, self-worth. And if, if we can get honest about that, it is obviously complicated, right?

[00:59:43] Cal Callahan: There's a lot of different ways, different protocols, whether it's through plant medicine or through kind of other work. But, but to me, that's the work. It comes back to who am I? You know, and when we [01:00:00] are sitting in a place where we're thinking that we are broken, I've been there for a while, you know, in, uh, m- many years where I thought there was something to fix and that was my orientation.

[01:00:12] Cal Callahan: I'm going to do this to fix this and fi- finally I realized that there's no end to the fixing, and so what do I actually want to do? I just want to get to know myself better. There's nothing to fix. There's things to clarify. And in that kind of inquiry, I started to uncover these, these patterns. And again, I brought 'em up a number of times, but the work with Kyle and that conversation that he and I had for 10 hours, so much of this was uncovered.

[01:00:42] Cal Callahan: So much, and it made so much sense and, and he was so impeccable with holding that space that I'd never felt like that about these things. And I had explored them before with different people in different ways, but the way Kyle did it, I actually didn't feel like I needed the [01:01:00] body work. I was like, I was so clear after that conversation.

[01:01:04] Cal Callahan: Uh, and then the body work, you know, sinks it all into the, to the whole organism.

[01:01:10] Luke Storey: For those, uh, listening, you can find a link to this Kyle Corsi to which we're referring at lukestory.com/kyle. That'll be the show notes for today. Um, and we already... I republished our conversation on your podcast, The Great Unlearn, so that'll be in the feed a couple weeks ago.

[01:01:27] Luke Storey: Um, and then Kyle will be joining me, I think this week, so it'll probably come out after this conversation. Awesome. So for those that are like, "What's this Kyle thing you keep referring to?" Who's this

[01:01:36] Cal Callahan: guy Kyle?

[01:01:37] Luke Storey: Uh, yeah, I mean, life-changing experience, to say the least.

[01:01:41] Cal Callahan: Yeah, so and you know, you and I have done similar things, different things.

[01:01:45] Cal Callahan: W- We're, we're, we're all kind of orienting, you and I certainly are orienting t- around the same things, and it was so interesting to hear you talk after your work with Kyle. And then I hadn't sat with him yet, and then I sat with him, and then [01:02:00] we talked, and it was just like, holy shit, so much of it was, was so relevant with, with what you experienced and I experienced.

[01:02:08] Cal Callahan: Um, but it, it, it's just, for me in this process It's been about like how much grace can I give myself? Not, not let me off the hook, but how much grace can I give myself so that I can think clearly about what wants to be addressed for me? And instead of getting like super pissed at myself, I'll just laugh like, "Dude, how the fuck did you end up here?"

[01:02:37] Cal Callahan: And it's where I'm at, and it's not terrible, but it's not something I would have signed up for, but it has been amazing for me to get super clear on what's really important to me. Uh, but yeah, I, I think y- you're, you're spot on where [01:03:00] We, uh, I think a lot of us are taught this, this idea that build wealth and you're good.

[01:03:04] Cal Callahan: I even say it in the book, I'm like, "Someone told me that if, if you made a certain amount of money, it's still not gonna make you happy." I was like, "Fuck that." And I was happy for a long time, but it wasn't necessarily because of... It's not the, it's, it's not the sustainable happiness. It's the feeling the abundance of finances, but there wasn't a tremendous amount of abundance that I was carrying otherwise, I would say.

[01:03:31] Luke Storey: One thing my dad used to tell me, um, I don't know, he must've been maybe in his 60s or so. You know, he did, he did well for himself relative to where he came from. Um, you know, was involved in some real estate and stuff like that. Um, so he, he, he did well, and he had a good sense. He, he had a good entrepreneurial sense, but he also, he loathed debt, [01:04:00] so he's never in debt.

[01:04:01] Luke Storey: Like any properties, he'd just buy the property outright . You know, so he used to really get on me about being in debt so often, uh, which has been a pattern of mine throughout my life. But anyway, at one point, um, you know, he had like ATVs and horses and, you know, he's got a couple trucks and guns and just material stuff that he'd accumulated.

[01:04:22] Luke Storey: And when he was, he was probably in his mid-60s, I'd go visit him, and every time I'd visit him, it's like, "Well, where's the ATVs?" "Oh, I sold them. It's a pain in the ass," you know? Then he got rid of the horses and, you know, he just started downsizing to a more minimalist lifestyle. And, you know, he was always someone I looked to as, um, you know, sort of a North Star.

[01:04:44] Luke Storey: Like, dude figured it out. He, he got it down to the point where, you know, he could live on passive income from his, uh, properties and things like that and didn't, like, have to work. But I noticed he started really paring down and, um, the way he explained it to me [01:05:00] was, you know, he'd worked his whole life in a, in a similar way that you did earlier in life.

[01:05:04] Luke Storey: You're fortunate that you figured out that, you know, making money isn't the answer to happiness early on. It took him much longer, um, and, you know, he had a lot of, um, unresolved trauma and just issues around self-worth and was like many of us kind of indoctrinated into the idea that if you're financially successful, you'll be happy, right?

[01:05:23] Luke Storey: So he went through that and wasn't happy. But when he started getting rid of stuff, he said, "Luke, y- you have no idea what a burden material ownership is. There'll come a point in your life, you know, you work so hard to get this and you start collecting stuff, right? And then eventually that stuff starts to bury you, even if it's just the accounting and insurance and all the administrative work that, that props up your little empire of whatever size," right?

[01:05:53] Luke Storey: It's like things just get so complicated and complex that it ends up kind of, um- [01:06:00] being a prison in a sense. You become beholden to all of this stuff that you've accumulated. And I, I'll never forget that. It was really interesting, you know, 'cause I'd look at him and be like, "Man, I'd like to have a couple ATVs and a couple houses in different places," and he's like, he'd always tell me, "Just rent."

[01:06:15] Luke Storey: You know, I'd be, "Oh, Dad, I wanna get a property in Montana so I can go there in the summer." He goes, "Are you crazy? You know what a pain in the ass that is? Just go rent somewhere." You know, things like that. And I was like, "What? That doesn't sound like very good advice." So a lot of the advice that he would give me around this stuff, um, has taken time to really land, and I start to see like, oh yeah, it is, it's kind of a pain in the ass.

[01:06:37] Luke Storey: You know, you think about some of these really wealthy guys that collect cars and stuff, right? They have this airplane hangar full of these old classic cars. I'm like, you gotta have registration and insurance and all kinds of shit. You gotta have a mechanic come and start 'em up. You know, it's like everything that you accumulate requires maintenance.

[01:06:54] Luke Storey: You know, it doesn't just sit there, and then when you wanna use it, it's there. You know? It's like there's a paper trail [01:07:00] associated with everything, and it seems to me at this point in my life, I'm more interested in simplicity. Although the f- freedom that, um, you know, resources allow, it seems like if, if you let things get too complex that that could become a burden.

[01:07:18] Luke Storey: So what's your current view on stuff? Oh my God. That. You know, the accumulation of stuff. Like, you have a few properties and, you know, just the whole thing. You have different loans and just owning this house, dude, is such a pain in the ass. You know, we had a plumber over here today. Something's always broken.

[01:07:35] Luke Storey: It's like, oh, 400 bucks here, 2,000 bucks here. It's like, my dad used to also tell me, he goes, um, "You know, it's dumb to rent your home long term, especially in LA, 'cause it's so expensive." He goes, "Yeah, you wanna own a home," but he goes, "Just trust me, it's gonna end up costing you way more to own a home," you know?

[01:07:51] Luke Storey: I was like, "What? You're crazy." And now I see. You know, our pool died, and it's like 100 grand to fix the pool, you know? It's like, okay, well, we got a mosquito swamp for a [01:08:00] while. Yeah. Is what it is, you know? So what do you think about, you know, this, again, it's like that, um, kind of trying to fill something inside externally, and then that ultimately ends up causing more of a burden of responsibility and anxiety because you have all these moving parts you have to keep track of.

[01:08:19] Cal Callahan: Yeah, I couldn't agree with it more. I mean, yes, that right there for me, that, and that's the, the word I've used is I've created this prison for myself. Um, the beauty is, is I have the key. Now, unfortunately, I can't use it right now, but I can I've been doing things over the past couple years to walk out of that prison.

[01:08:41] Cal Callahan: And part of this accumulation, it'd be nice to have the ATVs and to have a house and, yeah, and there's th- for me, it's like the ego is like, "Oh, I can buy that. Like, let's do this. This is a good deal." You know, like the place we bought in Spice, we got it at a great price. We'll see when I wanna sell it if it was a [01:09:00] great price.

[01:09:00] Cal Callahan: You know, it was a great price to where it was listed to... I mean, the home's ridiculous, but it's a great price when I find out what I can sell it for on some level. And I've loved that house. I mean, we had it for almost four years now, and we've had a lot of amazing men's groups there and cool events where I have the podcast.

[01:09:20] Cal Callahan: I love it, and it doesn't really generate any income, and it's expensive, and, and, and. So this is a perfect example, you know, of what your dad's talking about. Like four years ago, it was a different situation. Now things aren't moving quite like I had planned, and so what, what, what, what's on the chopping block?

[01:09:42] Cal Callahan: Like how, as much as I love that place, is it really serving me when I'm having some stress around finances? And your dad would say, "Fuck no, it's not." He'd have a real honest conversation with me. He's like, [01:10:00] "Let's sit down and look at what you got." And I could probably identify where he'd say, "Keep that, keep that, maybe keep that," and the rest of it.

[01:10:11] Cal Callahan: And th- that, those are the conversations I'm trying to have with myself, and reflecting with others that can hold that too, and, and understand just what you're talking about. These things, some of them are benefiting. Maybe many of them aren't. And so w- what are you gonna do about it? What can you do about it?

[01:10:32] Cal Callahan: And how can I do it, like, in a good way where, again, where I don't just burn it down to the ground? But, uh, there's a methodical way, and, um, it, it, it's...

[01:10:45] Cal Callahan: I mean, we can say what we want, but I think for so many of us on that, as we're growing wealth and we're living below our means and we're acquiring these things and we make all the reasons why it's a good [01:11:00] buy and there's a, there's a part of it. It could be a really big part. It could be a small part, but there's an ego play in there for sure that, um, I've been tracking in myself and trying to get honest about What is the worth of this in my life?

[01:11:21] Cal Callahan: And is it adding benefit or is it taking away or adding to stress? Um, and so I'm in that kind of deep questioning right now. But I ... Y- your dad i- is spot on, and I don't know if it's, like, an age thing where we, we hit a certain age or we find ourselves, you know, I don't know, maybe your dad found himself in a bit of, like, a financial, like, things weren't quite working and, and then he had to get honest with himself about that, you know?

[01:11:54] Cal Callahan: I don't know if that's how it happens for people. It seems to be how it happened for me. [01:12:00] And if you're not there yet Get curious about it, 'cause when you're there, you're not gonna wanna be there. It's gonna be painful

[01:12:10] Luke Storey: Well, it's interesting because I think on both sides of the spectrum, you know, if again, if that relationship with oneself is not Really solid and healthy.

[01:12:26] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:27] Luke Storey: You know, where you can just feel satisfied and, um, fulfilled within your own experience of life, regardless of your title, what you've accomplished, what you have, don't have. Seems like if that isn't there, that you could be someone who is really struggling financially, owns nothing, has tons of debt, and you'll think, "Oh, if I could just get to this certain level of, um, you know, like net worth or, or income, that my problems would be solved."

[01:12:56] Luke Storey: Then on the other end of the spectrum, you have people who have achieved everything on [01:13:00] the, in the material realm and are feeling trapped in a similar way and thinking, "If I could just get rid of all this shit and have a more simple life, I'd be happy," right? It's like somewhere in the middle there is finding happiness and fulfillment within whatever situation you find yourself in, right?

[01:13:17] Luke Storey: 'Cause I've, I've been there most of my life of just struggling, no money, broke, getting, you know, my over-overdraft fees in the bank and credit card debt, and I've just... All that shit, living in my car. I mean, just so much of my life was spent like, "God, if I just had more money, then I would be okay," right? And, and still feel that a little bit sometimes, as I was saying.

[01:13:40] Luke Storey: But where I am in my life now is more like, "Hmm, I would actually like to simplify things and just get rid of clutter and responsibility that's associated with some of the things that I would attribute to success," right? Like, we went and bought a couple bicycles last year, and I got, like, these really nice beach cruisers, you know?

[01:13:58] Luke Storey: They were like- Mm ... I don't know, [01:14:00] 1,200 bucks each or something, right? Like, real nice bikes. I, I haven't had a bike since 1982. You know what I mean? My little BMX bike. Got these bikes, and we live in hill country. I didn't know that these beach cruisers suck living in hill country, right? So we never ride the bikes 'cause you get so gassed every time you gotta go up a little hill, you know?

[01:14:18] Luke Storey: And so now we're sitting with those things, and I l- they're, they're cluttering up the garage now, right? Where at the time it sounded like a good idea, and now I'm just like, "God, I just would-- I'd rather have that money back and not have those things sitting in the garage collecting dust." And there's a lot of stuff like that in my material kind of life where I feel like it's like it leaks my energy.

[01:14:39] Luke Storey: It's like clutter. So I'm feeling more drawn to, "Well, how can I simplify my life and pare things down?" And I feel like, man, the idea of just living in a cabin with nothing sounds really good. Which is where I came from, you know? So it's like, hmm, maybe it's not what's going o-out there. It's like there's something out of [01:15:00] balance within that is calling for my attention.

[01:15:02] Luke Storey: If I feel, like, trapped by all of the shit in my life that I've accumulated, it's the same kind of feeling as when I had accumulated nothing and was in a deficit, right? It's like the reality seems to be that it's not It's not really about the external at all.

[01:15:20] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[01:15:21] Luke Storey: It's like, "Wow, how can I feel comfortable within?"

[01:15:24] Luke Storey: And sometimes that does require changing things on the external, right? If you're in a career or relationship that's not serving you, obviously things need to change. But I'm really interested in what life looks like when it becomes more simple and there's just less loose ends and responsibilities and things to have to take care of.

[01:15:41] Luke Storey: So I think I'm reaching, like, sell the ATVs phase in life like my dad did, a bit earlier than he did. You know? It's just like, wow, how can things just be a little more simple? Like less emails, less paperwork, less legal shit, administrative shit. How can I just kind of simplify [01:16:00] things where it's comfortable and not overwhelming?

[01:16:08] Luke Storey: All right, you guys, I don't love the term biohacker, but let's say I've been in the health optimization game for a minute. I'm basically obsessed with solutions to what ails us. So supplements, cold plunges, red light, all the things, right? But if you're not managing the energetic field in which you live, even the best inputs like those don't land the way you think they do.

[01:16:28] Luke Storey: 'Cause unfortunately, these days our bodies are constantly interacting with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cell towers, an invisible load your nervous system has to process twenty four/seven. This is why you can be doing everything right and still feel a little off. And that's exactly what got me into Leela Quantum Tech.

[01:16:47] Luke Storey: It's a suite of products designed to support your biofield and help your body stay resilient to EMF stress. At home, I use their quantum block to harmonize the environment here in my office studio and support a more [01:17:00] coherent signal all around me. Then when I leave the compound here, I wear the Heal360 capsule.

[01:17:06] Luke Storey: It's got quantum-charged titanium spheres inside it, so it helps take the edge off that constant background noise when I'm out in the world. And when the exposure peaks, times like air travel, traffic, and so on, they've got EMF-blocking clothing that blocks against ninety-nine percent of measurable wireless radiation.

[01:17:24] Luke Storey: This line of clothing is clutch when you're walking into a high EMF environment. To get yourself dialed in with all that stuff, here's what you do. Go to lukestory.com/LeelaQ and use the code Luke ten for ten percent off your first order. That's lukestory.com/L-E-E-L-A-Q. Because the real upgrade isn't doing tons more supplements and saunas and all the things.

[01:17:48] Luke Storey: It's about protecting the field in which you live and thrive. Again, that link is lukestory.com/LeelaQ and the code is Luke ten

[01:17:59] Cal Callahan: [01:18:00] Well, I, I love that you brought up the, the case of the bikes because I had a similar situation where I had a float tank in my garage.

[01:18:07] Luke Storey: I remember when you were selling it.

[01:18:08] Cal Callahan: Yeah, I know. I hit you up a couple different

[01:18:10] Luke Storey: times. Yeah. I was like, "Man, I, I-" Took me a while ... I, I didn't have the cash at the time, but I, I would've liked it.

[01:18:14] Luke Storey: It probably would've been in my garage if I'd bought it from you, and it'd be one of those things right now where I'm like, "Ah, I don't, you know, I haven't used it in six months. Like, do I really need this thing?"

[01:18:21] Cal Callahan: Exactly. And so I bought it. I... It was a great one. Bought it used. I bought it for, like, 19 grand, which is a great deal for one of these float tanks.

[01:18:30] Cal Callahan: I used it a few times, and then, I don't know, a year and a half later I'm like, "I need to sell this thing," 'cause every time I go in the garage, I fucking see this thing and it reminds me. Well,

[01:18:40] Luke Storey: it's a great example because you gotta buy the salt, you know, you get out of it, it gets salt water everywhere. You gotta have someone clean it.

[01:18:46] Luke Storey: It's, like, one of those great, great examples of a thing that many people would like to have because it's kind of a luxury item, right? But then it, it's got a lot of maintenance involved with it. So it's like, is the maintenance and the pain in the ass of taking care of [01:19:00] it and making space for it worth the benefits that you get whenever you use it?

[01:19:03] Cal Callahan: And the answer's no, much like renting. Just go visit a float tank for me. It was like, okay. But I ended up having to sell it for five grand, and I was lucky to do that. No one fucking wanted them.

[01:19:16] Luke Storey: That's funny.

[01:19:16] Cal Callahan: And I'm like, I, I probably would've given it away for free if he just would've taken it out of my garage- Right

[01:19:22] Cal Callahan: 'cause I couldn't look at it anymore. And so the reason I bring this up is there's a, there's a process I went through December, January, where I went through my closet. And I just got rid of fucking so much stuff, just stuff. Clothes I hadn't worn in a while. I probably got rid of two-thirds of, like, my clothes, over half of my sneakers.

[01:19:49] Cal Callahan: I had a lot of cool Nikes or whatever. I'm like, "I'm never gonna fucking wear them." So I put them all in a big pile for my two boys and their friends, and they [01:20:00] took almost all of it, which was so cool. I'm like, "Okay, look, I got some fucking style here. These kids wanna wear it." But it gave me more space. And after I did the closet, I went into the garage and I got rid of a bunch of...

[01:20:13] Cal Callahan: I just started to clean out anything that was no longer serving me. I did it with my, my Instagram, to be honest with you. Over the years, I've started... I was following, like, maybe 1,800 people, and I was like, "I just wanna clean up the feed." And I went through and I just started to unfollow, like, the easy... You know, a bunch were pretty easy.

[01:20:34] Cal Callahan: And after a while, my goal was to get to, like, 300 followers. I had a lot of friends, and so I gotta you know, you gotta stay with your friends. But there are people that I'm friendly with, but I'm like, their content doesn't resonate or it's, like, about biohacking. And at that point, I'm like, "I, I... If I need any tips on biohacking, I've got y- I've got my guys."

[01:20:56] Cal Callahan: So I don't need reminders. Like- Yeah ... for me, it's almost [01:21:00] like I'm good. Like, I don't need anything telling me that I'm not good, 'cause that's a slippery slope. But there's a lot that I got rid of. And so it was all this, like, cleaning. I just felt lighter. And so I, I get curious about for you, what that process could look like for you in a very, like, material way.

[01:21:21] Cal Callahan: And I know you came to the men's group and gave us a bunch of your old cool gear. Great. Like, that's a version of that where it really... I mean, my office, I got rid... I mean, just everywhere, and I felt so good, and that's just been part of this purging process for me. Yeah, that's stuff around the house, easier to get rid of.

[01:21:45] Cal Callahan: Some stuff you can sell, some stuff you just gotta give away and be like, "Okay, don't make that purchase again." But a, but a lot of it is just another energetic way of like, "Okay, what's no longer serving me?" And that's been a cool process [01:22:00] because just as, like, I was going through, I probably went through six or seven waves of the unfollowing- So people I love, and I'm like, I, I, this content's not for me right now.

[01:22:11] Cal Callahan: It's not what I want. I want some fucking funny shit. I want a few little conspiracy guys that I think are really well-grounded. You know, some sports stuff, friends. But, like, I really... When I go on there, I wanna have a pretty good time. And, uh, it, it's been helpful for me. And I highly recommend, like, you know, one of the things my buddy, before I went into my closet, he's like, "Okay, try this as a, as an idea.

[01:22:41] Cal Callahan: Go through all your clothes, and would you buy them today? Would you buy this pair of pants, this shirt, this jacket, da, da, da, today?" And there's gonna be some things you wouldn't necessarily buy, but they're legacy pieces, they're expensive. You may wanna keep them. But so much of it, dude, was like, didn't need it.[01:23:00]

[01:23:00] Cal Callahan: Don't miss any of it. I mean, again, I gave away over half my cool sneakers. My kids wear them, their buddies wear them. It's so cool. Watch... Like, they're being worn. They're gonna stay in my closet, 'cause I have, like, a rotation, like three or four that I really like at a time. And when I'm done with those, I generally just buy, like, a couple more pairs.

[01:23:19] Cal Callahan: And I don't often go back to my old pairs of sneakers. So I think for you You know, finding those things in your life, like the bikes, that are signals of like, "Dude, what the fuck were you thinking?" Or whatever the signal is, right? And then just kind of g- give yourself some grace Decluttering,

[01:23:41] Luke Storey: man, making space.

[01:23:42] Luke Storey: Maybe, you know, it's a spring thing, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, spring cleaning is a thing. I think that's why this is top of mind. I've just been feeling the encroachment, whether it's my desktop or unanswered emails, just, just like a lot of distractions in the periphery that I feel are, um, kind of draining my [01:24:00] focus.

[01:24:00] Cal Callahan: You

[01:24:01] Luke Storey: know? T- t- they're just

[01:24:01] Cal Callahan: there.

[01:24:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. They're- There's like, there's like subconscious sort of leaks of energy. Even if you're not thinking about it, I just know, like in my office right now, 'cause I've been working on, on this book for so long, it looks very tidy 'cause I'm, I'm, r- I really don't like clutter in my space.

[01:24:17] Luke Storey: If you walk in my office, you'd be like, "Damn, for a, for a guy's office, it's very clean and tidy," right? But if you open up any of the drawers, it's just, like, packed with shit, just y- you know, a collecti- like a storage bin of USB cables from the past 20 years, you know what I mean? And when we moved in, uh, everything was very organized.

[01:24:36] Luke Storey: I'm like, I'm into my label maker, right? I'm, like, big on the labeling. Everything's organized. But then as time goes by, they're just like, y- you just start breaching the confines of wherever stuff is stored. And so it's like when I go in my office, I notice it's much harder to focus 'cause there's a part of me that knows there's a shit storm- Mm

[01:24:54] Luke Storey: in every single little cabinet, right? It's just, it's weird how things like that, and maybe I'm [01:25:00] just more sensitive to it than some people, but I think whether it's on the micro of like, oh, I need to organize my pens and, like, office supplies, to I need to clean my garage, to I need to sell this car or whatever, right, or a property or something like that, it's like there's a lot of value in the decluttering, whether it's digital, physical, relationships, your Instagram feed.

[01:25:25] Luke Storey: I think that's really, it's a great topic to bring into this, uh, spring season that we're in right now.

[01:25:30] Cal Callahan: Dude, even your cables. I did that w- I, I mean, I'm kind of the collector for the family, so I had so many different ones, and I finally just put them all out. I took the best ones that we had, 'cause we had a bunch of shitty ones, right?

[01:25:44] Cal Callahan: 'Cause you don't know what to do with them, you just throw them in the, in the, the bin. Took the, the best ones s- you know, and kinda had what I would need, and then presented the rest to the family. And all these others I just threw away 'Cause I [01:26:00] don't need 'em. You know, so I had a couple backups, but that's, that's a great place to start.

[01:26:06] Cal Callahan: You know, if you need to procrastinate and you just need to feel a little more settled, it's kinda nice 'cause it's just always there. Yeah. And so there are other, other areas. We've done it with our freaking pantry. Can't imagine how many supplements you have, but I went through and I threw out- Oh, my God

[01:26:22] Cal Callahan: so many supplements. So many. Yeah. And you're gifted so many, so you have so... I can't imagine how many you have. But even me, I bought a lot of mine and I'm like, "Fuck it." Hopefully it's expired 'cause it's easier to throw away, but otherwise I'm like, "I'm just chucking it." I would leave some for my, my kids if they want them and their buddies want them, but other than that I'm like, "We're, we're just done.

[01:26:42] Cal Callahan: I don't, I'm not using any of these things." And so that's just cleaned out. It just cleans up your space and it just... We know going into a room that's clean and settled feels really good, so there is... I think this is an important part of the process, of doing it even on the micro level versus these big ideas of what- [01:27:00] Yeah

[01:27:00] Cal Callahan: we're trying to declutter.

[01:27:01] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:27:01] Cal Callahan: Um.

[01:27:02] Luke Storey: Yeah. My, uh, my method is, um, take some Modafinil, you know, turn the phone off and just go to

[01:27:09] Cal Callahan: town.

[01:27:09] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah, dude. Oh, yeah. You know, just takes the- Sounds like a plan ... it takes the starting point. Like, I have to put it on the calendar. Okay, Saturday I'm committed to, you know, creating space.

[01:27:17] Luke Storey: Uh, one thing I wanna cover before we wrap up, uh, which I love. It's one of those things where I'm like, "Oh, man, I wish I would've thought of that." You know, your brand is Unlearn, right? Your book here, Unlearn. Yeah. You got your T-shirt on, your podcast, The Great Unlearn. I've always, since I met you, I've always loved that as just sort of a, a brand identity, because in my life I think- There's probably an even split between learning new valuable information about life and the way things work, and letting go of old ideas that no longer serve me, or just things I latched onto or was conditioned to believe.

[01:27:55] Luke Storey: And, um, I don't know if I've ever talked to you about this, but a principle that I've [01:28:00] really applied a lot for a very long time is open-mindedness, right? That's one of the principles from the 12 steps that is, without that you're, you know, you're a goner. Like, you gotta have that, otherwise there's no chance you're ever gonna get sober, in my case, right?

[01:28:13] Luke Storey: So you gotta open your mind to new ideas. And I had a teacher, uh, many years ago who really, really hammered in the open mind principle in me by showing me every time my mind was closed. And he would just rail on me, 'cause he'd be trying to teach me something, uh, because I asked him to, right? It was very consensual.

[01:28:35] Luke Storey: I'm like, "Hey, I'm really struggling with XYZ." He'd start to share some wisdom with me based on his experience. I'd go, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I know, I know." And he'd just, "Your mind's closed." He would just scream at me, right? And I'm like... And then I'd say, "No, but I'm agreeing with you." He'd go, "See, you're arguing again."

[01:28:49] Luke Storey: I was like, "God." It would just drive me crazy. Eventually started to break through and what he was teaching me in a, in a pretty aggressive way, 'cause that's what I needed at the time, was that [01:29:00] the open mind is not only about letting new information in, but equally as important is letting old information out.

[01:29:09] Luke Storey: And it, it kind of goes into, it's a nice little dovetail from cluttering, right? So if I got a house and a garage full of all this shit and it's, like, feeling overwhelming, w- what it, it, bringing more stuff in is not going to fix that, right? It's like I have to make space for that. And so that's how he would kind of frame open-mindedness to me, was you have to be willing constantly to surrender old ideas, no matter how much you believe them to be true at a time, right?

[01:29:38] Luke Storey: And that kind of makes space for new ideas that are gonna help you expand and grow. And so I love your, you know, your platform of, like, unlearn. It's, you didn't call your platform, like, learn more. Right. Get smarter. Take in more information. It's, it's, it's a process of, um, subtraction, you know, which is really, my spiritual path has [01:30:00] been mostly that.

[01:30:01] Luke Storey: It's like- Surrendering, letting go of what is not true and real, and what's left in its absence is what is actually true and useful, you know? So tell me, like, how you kind of came into this way of thinking- Yeah ... of just, yeah, deprogramming yourself, unlearning things that, you know, may have served you for a time and no longer do.

[01:30:25] Cal Callahan: Uh, yeah, I'm not sure where I first heard the term, and in fact, my podcast in the beginning was called Working In. That was like, it didn't, it, it... When I finally published it, it, it was The Great Unlearn, but the working title was Working In, because so much of what I was learning and was really helping me was these practices, meditation, uh, just recovery around working out, just these things to re-energize the system.

[01:30:55] Cal Callahan: You know, a lot of Paul Chek's work, uh, that was, that was pretty influential. Uh, but [01:31:00] he didn't quite capture the, the stuff that I was after, and I had sent my buddy, uh, Kevin, who's Greg's, uh, brother, uh, Kevin Booth, who's just done all my, my branding and stuff, I had sent him, like, a, a list of 15, 20 terms.

[01:31:19] Cal Callahan: And I'm like, "Dude, what, like, what do you have for, for this?" And unlearn was in there. And, uh, he came back with The Great Unlearn, and I'm like, "Oh, wow." I, I mean, that's fucking yes. That's it. Um, and what's interesting is, is I don't know what was first, you know, the chicken or the egg, but with that signal that I put out, The Great Unlearn and here to undo the programming, to be aware of the programming, bring people on who are doing it differently, to have your own experience, curiosity, all these things that weren't necessarily part of my, you know, this [01:32:00] open-mindedness.

[01:32:00] Cal Callahan: I, I wouldn't say I was super open-minded. I was about some things, but I was also very black and white. When I started to understand that curiosity was a real superpower, as the podcast was, was taking off, um, it, it did allow me... To your point, it- it's like in order for us to learn new things, we do need to understand what it is we believe and why.

[01:32:25] Cal Callahan: And then, you know, as Don Miguel Ruiz says, we can undo that agreement, and then we can come through with maybe another agreement of something that we have a direct experience with. 'Cause in my experience, so much of what I believed or thought to be true was not based on any of my own experience. It was what I was taught in school, so on and so forth, public, media.

[01:32:48] Cal Callahan: But as I started to see that these things weren't true, and I was learning what may be closer to true for me, and I was having all these experiences, I started [01:33:00] to come up with this whole new idea about who I am in this space, and what does it mean? And that whole concept, um- Yeah, it was, you know, it's funny you know that I, I didn't start praying until like, I don't know, a year and a half, two years ago.

[01:33:19] Luke Storey: I forgot about that.

[01:33:21] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[01:33:22] Luke Storey: I forgot about that. I remember that, that day, whatever event we were at. With

[01:33:26] Cal Callahan: Marianne Williamson.

[01:33:27] Luke Storey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Alice and I got home, and we were like, "Can you believe Cal just started praying?" I remember thinking, "Dude, how have you not offed yourself?"

[01:33:37] Cal Callahan: Yeah. '

[01:33:38] Luke Storey: Cause that's been my experience, you know?

[01:33:40] Luke Storey: I mean, and I forget sometimes too, but it's just funny that you had already been on your journey that long, and it was like this revelatory thing for you. And I was like, how has this guy been walking around without that support?

[01:33:51] Cal Callahan: Well, and so what's interesting is the prayer came in a different form for me.

[01:33:54] Cal Callahan: It was the podcast, and it was like the weekly thing of [01:34:00] this is, this is my prayer, bringing people on, talking about these things, who I was surrounding myself with. Um, so it wasn't maybe a traditional prayer, but it definitely set me on this road of really questioning everything and being as open-minded as I could be to other people's ideas that made sense to me.

[01:34:23] Cal Callahan: Not necessarily even intellectually, but it's just like I heard it, I'm like, that actually lands for me. Let me, let me investigate a little bit further, and I think that's been kind of my greatest gift in this, you know, past six, seven, eight years is, is being curious, realizing that I, that I really don't know that much.

[01:34:44] Cal Callahan: I know what I've experienced. Even that changes. Uh, and so I try to come in as much as I can with a beginner's mind, and it's hard sometimes 'cause I have my biases for sure, and I'm not afraid to speak those. But- [01:35:00] I'm really... I try to stay open and, um, yeah, this, it, I got, i- in a lot of ways, I got really lucky with the brand, to be honest with you, 'cause I, I love the T-shirt.

[01:35:12] Cal Callahan: You know, I love that I was able to call my book that. It, it just, it all kinda lines up, and people have an idea about what it is, and if they don't, it sparks something in them, like, "Well, what is this about?" You know, maybe they'll listen to the podcast and they'll see, like, the things that, you know, are explored there, and I think a lot of them are really useful, and they're outside, generally, of, of what we've been told.

[01:35:39] Luke Storey: Yeah, I think a lot of people that are more intellectually driven find the idea of open-mindedness threatening-

[01:35:49] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm ... '

[01:35:49] Luke Storey: cause they perceive it as some sort of vulnerability. Like, "Oh, I'm just gonna fall for anything." In my experience, I've found the opposite to be true. The more open-minded I [01:36:00] am, the more it allows for my intuition and discernment and kind of gut feeling, what you describe, as like, if I get my mind out of the equation of like- Mm-hmm

[01:36:11] Luke Storey: like, don't like, want, don't want, it's like that creates this space for me to Experience how something makes me feel, right? Being around someone, hearing an idea, seeing a social media post. It's like, because there's less ri-ri, uh, less rigid position, like I'm not stuck to a belief system so much.

[01:36:36] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[01:36:36] Luke Storey: It's like, "Hmm, I can explore this without having to intellectualize it," and then over time, I learn how to trust the feeling that I have in my body. It's like, how is my nervous system responding to this? And I've found that that is a much more reliable barometer of truth. It's a better lie detector than thinking about something and [01:37:00] trying to figure it out using the mind, you know?

[01:37:03] Luke Storey: 'Cause the mind is, like, stuck with all these other influences from past experiences. Where if I can just approach something fresh with an open mind, I'm actually less vulnerable to being subject to coercion or manipulation or being taken advantage of than if I had to use the mind. Like, you can just feel it, you know?

[01:37:21] Luke Storey: Just like, "Hmm, how do I feel around this person?" Or, "How do I feel when I am exposed to a different, you know, a book or piece of content or something like that?" It's like, where does it land? It's a very counterintuitive way to operate in the world. Yeah. I've, I've learned a lot of it from Allison, you know?

[01:37:38] Luke Storey: She's not like an- Hmm ... she's not someone that's, like, trapped in the mind and has really rigid ideas. She's very open like I am, but I've observed her capacity for intuition and how accurate her intuition is, and it's based on more what I'm describing and what I'm, you know, learning over the years to do.

[01:37:59] Luke Storey: It's just [01:38:00] like, "Hmm, let me just feel into it instead of ruminating on it and driving myself crazy trying to arrive at a decision." It's an interesting thing that it just, it's, it really is counterintuitive. You think like, "Oh, no, I have to have my set, you know, rule book that I have to follow." It's like sometimes the biggest, uh, kind of, the most potent way I'm able to make decisions is just staying in my heart and just waiting for that subtle sense of go, don't go, turn left, turn right.

[01:38:33] Luke Storey: It's a much more fun and interesting way to live too

[01:38:35] Cal Callahan: Yeah, I d- I, I definitely, um, for a long time w- was in, in the, in the head in that way, and would definitely be influenced by someone who's really charismatic or someone who just was really well put, well put together, and I was just listening with trying to sort it all out.

[01:38:57] Cal Callahan: This guy's fucking smart, it must be true, or some [01:39:00] shit like that, right? Mm-hmm.

[01:39:01] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm.

[01:39:01] Cal Callahan: And yeah, it's taken me quite a while, although I feel like I'm there now, where I can just listen with my body, and it makes things so much more clear. Now, one of the benefits, you know, I've... Part of my human design, and I don't know it that well, but I remember in a reading, uh, my guy told me that I have a really open head center.

[01:39:27] Cal Callahan: So I was like, "So you're really, like, inherently open-minded." But when you put that together with how we're brought up, schooling, there's a right answer, there's a wrong answer. You know, I was a good rule follower in that regard. I was, like, pretty good at school. And so I had lived so much of my life thinking there's a right and a wrong, there's two political parties, there's, you know, whatever it is You know, all that bullshit.

[01:39:55] Cal Callahan: And ge- could get sucked into having to hold the position that [01:40:00] I got convinced was right, but didn't really believe it. And now I just... Like, when I let go of all that, when I realized, like, a response can be, "I don't know," when I really settled in to be able to say that, everything got so much easier. Like, I'm not trying to bullshit some answer.

[01:40:18] Luke Storey: Right.

[01:40:18] Cal Callahan: I'm gonna let you know kinda what I know about it, work it out, and I'll even let you know if I don't know it that well, but this is my understanding. Almost a little bit and sometimes or two, like, I don't really know. Sometimes I can get like that. But I don't want anyone to really think they got me figured out on what I think, 'cause I don't really know.

[01:40:37] Cal Callahan: But I know what I'm open to in the moment and what makes sense. There are some hills I may die on, but most of them I'm like, "I'm still working it out, but I have a pretty good idea." And what you're sharing is, like, not at all the truth. You gotta do your own research. But what I've heard, it's, it's, it's actually quite the opposite of that.

[01:40:56] Cal Callahan: So i- but there is a, you know, my own [01:41:00] orientation is to be open-minded, and now I think it's in a place where I can just listen and I don't need to, uh, it doesn't need to create a response from me. That was the other part. Back in the day, I was like, "Oh, I gotta, I gotta respond. I got..." No, sometimes this shit just needs to be left there.

[01:41:16] Cal Callahan: I don't need to show how smart I am. Uh, I'm kinda over that. So it's been, yeah, I don't know, comfort is not the right word, but it, it's really opened up more space for me to just be present in conversation 'cause I'm not working out, like, what my angle is and what... Just wanna be like, "Let's throw it in and if you're agreeable and I am, we can play around.

[01:41:37] Cal Callahan: And if you're not so agreeable, I don't know where it'll go, but it probably won't last that long." You know, just move on.

[01:41:47] Luke Storey: Now, I don't know about you guys, but I spent a lot of my life stuck in survival mode. Years of trauma, addiction, and general chaos left my nervous system never truly feeling safe. And even after I [01:42:00] got my act together, there was still part of me that always felt on guard and bracing for impact. And that's why I connected so deeply with Lotus Way.

[01:42:09] Luke Storey: Lotus Way makes these solar infusions that carry the energetic imprint of specific flowers, all designed to support your nervous system in a subtle but really powerful way. I started using their flower essences during a big life transition, and they've definitely helped me stay grounded, open, and less reactive.

[01:42:26] Luke Storey: And now Lotus Way has created something special called Warriors of the Unseen Truth. It's a program for veterans, first responders, and anyone still carrying the invisible burden of trauma. Now, even if that's not you, you probably know someone who's still trying to find their way back to themselves. To help them or yourself out, visit lukestory.com/warriors to learn more, and use the code Luke to save 10% off your first order.

[01:42:51] Luke Storey: So whether it came from combat, childhood, or just the drama of modern life, a lot of us are carrying a weight our bodies never learned to put down. And [01:43:00] Lotus Way offers beautiful tools to help you find your way back to center. Check it out at lukestory.com/warriors. Code Luke will save you that 10%. I find being in a state of wonder is a lot more interesting than being in a state of knowing.

[01:43:19] Luke Storey: You know, there's so much freedom in that. And then there are things that you know. You know? There's, there's natural laws that are dependable. You know, there's a few things that are just, like, core principles- Mm-hmm ... that I think, like open-mindedness itself, I, I'm not really movable on those things because they've just proven themselves to be true over and over and over- Mm-hmm

[01:43:41] Luke Storey: again throughout my entire life. But in terms of thinking I know what's going on out there in the world, you know, it's like, I don't know, what are, why are there chemtrails? What's up with the Antarctic Treaty? Uh, you know, like, all of these kind of mysteries about the ear- earthly human experience.

[01:43:57] Luke Storey: Sometimes it's like just being in a state of wonder [01:44:00] is much more interesting and comforting than latching onto a particular position. You know, to have, um, malleable perception and realize, like, so much of my life is created by the way that I'm framing something or holding it. That's why I like people that help me break out of that, even though it's uncomfortable sometimes.

[01:44:21] Luke Storey: I had a session with one of our, uh, recent guests, Brandy Gilmore, the other day. She has an incredible story. She was, um, i- injured and, you know, just in a really bad way, kind of... I think she was partially paralyzed. She was just tweaked, and she started, long story short, figured out how she could use her mind and perception to heal her body.

[01:44:40] Luke Storey: So I had a session with her 'cause I wanted to try to figure out this tinnitus thing. And she's really tapped in and very intuitive, uh, like psychic kind of vibes, you know? And so we're on this Zoom call, and she's like, out of the blue, "What's your relationship with the police like in your are- or, you know, in your area?"

[01:44:57] Luke Storey: I was like, "I hate 'em. These speed traps, these [01:45:00] bastards, these Tar River pirates, as I like to call them. They're just out there trying to extort and exploit and steal my money. They're just bastards." And so we went through this whole exercise, you know, and I believe that, right? That's, like, a belief that I'm holding.

[01:45:14] Luke Storey: But because of unlearning, right, and open-mindedness, sh- I'm willing to entertain where she wants to go with this. And she starts helping me reframe By asking me questions like, "Well, if somebody, you know, broke into your house in the middle of the night, how would you handle that?" I'd be like, "I'd call the cops."

[01:45:33] Luke Storey: "Those cops you hate?" And I was like, "Well, yeah, but then I need them." I mean, anyway, sh- y- you get the point, right? She starts, like, kind of putting me in corners in a way, but I, I'm game for it. I asked her for help, and my mind's open, and so I start to see like, oh, wow, so what if th- the money that they need to keep their outfit going over here comes from these tickets that I view [01:46:00] as, like, extortion and robbery?

[01:46:01] Luke Storey: And it's really hard for me to let go of that belief, by the way.

[01:46:04] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[01:46:05] Luke Storey: But say they just stopped funding from writing people tickets for going two miles over the speed limit here in our little suburb town, um, and they just went away. Then someone breaks into my house. Well, who am I gonna call? You know what I mean?

[01:46:19] Luke Storey: It's this kind of thing, right? She went through, uh, d- just all these different scenarios with that, and by the end of it, I wouldn't say that I was totally changed in my perception, but it did start to shift where I think what she said is like, "What if they were your friends?" Like, what if when you drive by them, you don't feel this resentment or this fear?

[01:46:35] Luke Storey: You were just like, "Hey, buddy. Wow, thanks for doing such a great job and just being here for the community," right? It was like a, a difficult reframing for me, but it showed me how, as open-minded as I think I am, I'm still stuck in this particular position because there's something I'm getting out of that.

[01:46:53] Luke Storey: There's some juice that I get out of, like, this adversarial, imaginary relationship that I have [01:47:00] with them, feeling like a victim or whatever it is, right? It doesn't even really matter. It's just more about how can I widen the aperture and just flip things around and look at it from a different area so I can drive around and not have those negative feelings inside.

[01:47:17] Luke Storey: Regardless of what the, you know, objective truth of their whole operation is, right, which I think is, I still think is kind of nefarious.

[01:47:24] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[01:47:25] Luke Storey: But can I find an acceptance of that and look at it in a way that doesn't drain my energy or cause me to feel badly about the world I live in, right? So that was a great example of that, of like kind of really pulling my covers as someone who'd think, oh yeah, I'm super open-minded.

[01:47:40] Luke Storey: I can change my mind about anything. It's like you start talking to me about the government and all of their ins- various institutions, I see, wow, my mind is still really closed. I have a preconceived idea about this system and the way it's set up, and I think it's wrong. I fight against it. I resist it.

[01:47:57] Luke Storey: And it's like I'm not hurting [01:48:00] them. I'm just hurting myself by holding it in that way. It's so interesting.

[01:48:05] Cal Callahan: Well, it reminds me of Byron Katie's work.

[01:48:07] Luke Storey: 100%. Is that true?

[01:48:09] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[01:48:09] Luke Storey: Yeah, it's true. Goddammit, they're extorting me. Is that really true? Yeah. Yeah. Who would you be if you didn't believe that to be true?

[01:48:16] Luke Storey: It's like, well, I'd be happy. I'd feel free. I would feel friendly with that. You know? It's like, well, why... The only thing separating you from that is what you believe.

[01:48:26] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[01:48:27] Luke Storey: Yeah. Byron Katie's amazing. You know I had her on my podcast years ago? Yes,

[01:48:30] Cal Callahan: I know. I s- I remember

[01:48:31] Luke Storey: seeing that. Yeah, it was, it was so cool.

[01:48:32] Luke Storey: It was like having a one-on-one with her. But I mean, that, that's a... I'm glad you brought her up, 'cause that really is radical open-mindedness, like non-dual, no opposites way of experiencing the world.

[01:48:47] Cal Callahan: Yeah, and it comes down to Like when these things come into, these awarenesses come into our life, it's like, "Okay, how is that belief serving me?"

[01:48:58] Cal Callahan: And it's like, fucking [01:49:00] clearly it's not. I mean, there are some ways that I subconsciously maybe it is, but ultimately, h- how would you feel, right, if you didn't have that thought, like driving around and like that... And that is obviously deeper work to go through her worksheets, but that's how these things change, and that's the honesty that you're calling in, that I'm calling in, that you had on this call that reminds us and reminds me...

[01:49:28] Cal Callahan: It's funny, I had a clip. Sutcliffe was just on the podcast and, and his clip that came out today was just about that, right? Oh, really? Jared will know this. But it, it's, you know, we're never gonna uncover all the blind spots, so don't think you're gonna, but it's pretty cool to be on that kind of search of like, "What am I not seeing?"

[01:49:51] Cal Callahan: Clearly it's like you, you'd feel better driving around if you saw these different police officers and you're just like, "Fucking A, all right, you guys got my back." [01:50:00] You know? I know. 'Cause, 'cause that one in particular- Yeah ... as an example, maybe he really does. Maybe he's in it for the purest of intentions, and he's in a system that, you know, maybe doesn't, uh, that's not the, uh, the DNA of the system.

[01:50:16] Cal Callahan: But even in that case, because you don't know his intentions one way or the other, you're choosing to believe one particular way.

[01:50:23] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:50:24] Cal Callahan: You know? And I had used this example with, with one of my kids. He was dating a girl, and they They were, it looked like they were gonna break up. They were going different places after high school.

[01:50:42] Cal Callahan: She happened to be really close, uh, with my daughter. So my son's younger sister was friends... Long story short, they had spent a, a lot of time together, the two girls, and then soon after that, my [01:51:00] son and her got... They broke up. And so he had this whole thought that she caused the breakup, my, my daughter did

[01:51:07] Luke Storey: Oh

[01:51:10] Cal Callahan: without hearing anything from her that that was the case, but he was just kinda putting two and two together. They were spending a lot of time together, that, but he conveniently left out that they were probably gonna split up anyway and so on and so forth. I said, "Well, you believe this thought that, you know, your sister was involved and this was the reason.

[01:51:28] Cal Callahan: What if she was just your champion, was trying to get her not to break up with you? Or maybe she could see that this wasn't a great fit and was like tr- like literally was your biggest cheerleader. You don't know her intentions. You didn't hear any of the conversations. You haven't talked to her about it.

[01:51:45] Cal Callahan: Like, there's so much that's, you're just believing this one particular story. How is that impacting your relationship with your sister? How would it be different if you thought the opposite, that she [01:52:00] was actually your biggest fan and was really looking out for you? She loves you so much- It's like, yeah, I'd feel different.

[01:52:07] Cal Callahan: It's like, I don't know if either is true, but which one's gonna serve you better?

[01:52:11] Luke Storey: The turnarounds.

[01:52:13] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[01:52:13] Luke Storey: Like in Byron Katie's work- Yeah ... I used to go see her events, and I mean, God bless these people that would, you know, kind of be in the line of fire.

[01:52:21] Cal Callahan: Mm-hmm.

[01:52:22] Luke Storey: In that situation, one of the turnarounds that she would inevitably get to would have been something like, "Okay, my sister caused my relationship to break up."

[01:52:31] Luke Storey: One of the turnarounds would be, "I caused my relationship to break up." Gets very confrontational, you know, at a point when you're really willing to go there and apply that radical self-honesty and radical open-mindedness, right? It was so interesting to, to observe that, so many of those kind of little interventions she would do, and people would be like, "Holy shit," in that moment, have this epiphany, like, "Actually, I did cause the thing," you know?

[01:52:56] Luke Storey: But you would never be able to get there until you go through that process of inquiry and, and [01:53:00] have the willingness to question what you believe to be true and, and be willing to let it go, you know, which the ego hates, and you're working against, like a real force.

[01:53:10] Cal Callahan: Yes. And, and it's... And it is. It's writing down all those, the turnarounds, all the things, the most opposite things you can think of, and seeing the truth in all of them.

[01:53:19] Cal Callahan: Because everything is true to some degree, I would say. There's some element of it. And, and one of the things I love most about her work is it takes us out of victim, and it's like, "Oh, I have the power to change all of this. It's all up in my head." Yeah. "It's all my read of this situation." And so much of it, I know when I've done that work, was just about my own ego and trying to protect myself and make the other person wrong, and that is just disempowering, 'cause it's like, "Oh, someone has the ability to make me feel bad.

[01:53:52] Cal Callahan: What's my part in it?" And yeah, so her work's incredible. Um, I don't necessarily subscribe to it on a [01:54:00] worksheet level, but it does give me so much clarity when I'm in those stuck spots of like, "Is this, how is this belief serving me? 'Cause I'm fucking stuck right now, and it being true doesn't seem to be serving me, 'cause I'm not doing anything, so what about it is my part?"

[01:54:17] Cal Callahan: And I think that's, you know, really... And, and honestly, for the book- One thing I was super careful, uh, is I didn't want it to be prescriptive. You know, that's another thing of the book that I didn't... I'm gonna unlearn everything, but I, I, I didn't want it to be a, "Hey, seven steps to da, da, da, recreate and have this life."

[01:54:40] Cal Callahan: It's like, yeah, I kinda had all this shit going on, and this is where I was completely fucking it up, and this is where I was doing things to try to learn about myself and figure this out, and it was helpful. And then, "Oh, whoops, there I go again." And for me, I think it's particularly poignant for [01:55:00] men kind of either entering or about to or in that midlife phase.

[01:55:07] Cal Callahan: And I think it's helpful for women who have men as partners to understand. I think, I think it's pretty resonant story for men in how we think we're meant to show up in the world as providers and protectors, and I think that is absolutely important. But for me, when I over-identified with that, and I had already provided and I had already protected, and then years later I'm still, that's my North Star, it's a problem because I, I lacked presence as a husband, as a father in, in other ways in my life.

[01:55:41] Cal Callahan: And so in some ways, it's a way to... I hope for when people, when they read it, they're like, "You're exactly where you need to be." 'Cause there were places I wanted to be other than where I was, but I was there, and I eventually did the work to figure out how I was, you know, fucking things up, but, like, how I wasn't [01:56:00] getting it right in the way that I wanted to.

[01:56:02] Cal Callahan: Um, so I think in that way it's, it's just very approachable and, and if you are looking for, like, a self-help book in that regard, it's, it's not that book. I'm not gonna tell you what to do at all. Uh, but I will share a lot of my story. Some stuff I've certainly shared on my podcast, but, you know, it's just kind of a, a, a, a, a tale kind of through the uncomfortable middle.

[01:56:28] Cal Callahan: I think that's on kind of the description. It's like, it's often, uh, called a midlife crisis, but I really think it's an opportunity for us to reevaluate what our North Star is. Like, what's important? How am I living? Is this track I've been on that I've been beholden to from a young age, is it serving me?

[01:56:50] Cal Callahan: Is it giving me the things I thought when I started to believe the thing when I was eight or 10 or 12? 'Cause a lot of these beliefs are, are, are seeded back [01:57:00] then, and in my case, no, it wasn't. I'm super grateful for all that stuff, and I still have the ability to do those things that were created out of my my desire to have a financially successful life.

[01:57:18] Cal Callahan: Uh, but when I saw that that, again, was one game and that is not actually who I am, that is like that classic resume virtue verse eulogy virtue. Like, that's all the resume stuff. Like, the stuff I want to be shared at my funeral is not any of that stuff, and so what is that stuff? And for people that are starting to feel that dissonance in their life, where that old way that we were told was the way is not making sense, and there are things that are calling us that we don't know w- why I feel so off, 'cause we're asking for letting go of those old [01:58:00] parts, those old patterns.

[01:58:01] Cal Callahan: Reshaping some of them, but letting go maybe of a lot of them, and then just stepping into this new life, which, as you know, dark night of the soul is a motherfucker. When, when your belief system starts to get challenged and proven false, and if you have the balls to go deeper into that inquiry, I think you'll find most of the things you were told growing up are, are...

[01:58:26] Cal Callahan: They're just not true. And sometimes they're blatant lies, and there's nefarious stuff, and sometimes it's just people don't know any better But getting into that season of that dark night, as terrifying as that is, I believe, on the other side of that is complete liberation. You don't have- you're not beholden to any of those things anymore.

[01:58:50] Cal Callahan: Now, the terrifying part is I've spent my entire life creating this avatar of who I am, and he's a chameleon 'cause he can be a bunch of [01:59:00] different things. Okay, cool, but also when you don't have... When I didn't have that in check, I was wearing the mask in all these different areas. And so now it's like I know the different roles I can play.

[01:59:13] Cal Callahan: I can fit into so many different groups, but I'm much more consistent with who I am in those groups than I ever was before, 'cause I've started to bring in the old parts in a way that I've integrated into who I really am at, like, more like a soul level, the things that are really meaningful to me, things that are my values that I just stand by.

[01:59:39] Cal Callahan: Um, and I think that's where a lot of people get stuck, and they go into dependency or addiction 'cause they're like, I, I don't... They don't have the means. They're not... They don't have a support group. They don't even know what the fuck I'm talking about if they hear this for the first time, you know? So i- it's, I've been very fortunate that I've had incredible mentors.[02:00:00]

[02:00:00] Cal Callahan: I've had a deep curiosity. I've had the space and the resources to explore these things. So I know that's different, you know, from a lot of people in the book. That's part of the reason I wanted to share the book, part of the reason I have the podcast, to just give people ideas about what has moved me, what has moved other people, and they can kind of pick and choose what is available to them, what feels most resonant, uh, and then explore those things.

[02:00:28] Cal Callahan: But, you know, what I would say is that, like, don't take my word for it. Certainly, you know, don't take your word for any of this stuff. What resonates, then go explore that for yourself. Have your own experience, and cool. Th- then you know. Uh, but it, it's... It was certainly an, an interesting kind of process to go through that in the book.

[02:00:51] Cal Callahan: I know, like, one of the big final edits was going through it and, and, and literally just deleting stuff that felt just a little bit too prescriptive, and this is [02:01:00] really... It's kind of my main thing is I don't want anyone to feel like I'm telling them what to do. I'm not. I'm trying to use my own experiences, you know, with as much honesty and, uh, vulnerability while keeping some things sacred that are to my family or whatever.

[02:01:19] Cal Callahan: Like, I didn't share everything, but I felt like I shared the things that were most meaningful and tried to keep it along the lines of what's most resonant for, for men in the kind of male experience.

[02:01:34] Luke Storey: Beautiful. Well said.

[02:01:36] Cal Callahan: Thank you.

[02:01:37] Luke Storey: We're gonna put your book, uh, along with anything else that's clickable in the show notes at lukestray.com/cal.

[02:01:43] Luke Storey: We'll link to your podcast and the episodes we've done together. We've had some fun podcasts. Uh, for those that haven't heard them, I've, I think I've republished all of them in our feed here. But, um, you'll do these, like, quad casts or, you know, multiple people, and we just kind of end [02:02:00] up shooting the shit, and some of those have been so fun.

[02:02:02] Luke Storey: There's, like, no plan at all, and I walk in going, "Well, I, um, well, yeah, what... Isn't there a topic or something?" Not really. We just start rapping, and some of those have been, like, my favorite podcast of all time. So I'm excited for people that aren't familiar with your work to get your book. Buy his book, you guys.

[02:02:18] Luke Storey: It's really hard to write a book. Um, and, uh, you know, anyone that's done it knows it's the kind of thing you don't know until you do it, and you go, "Holy shit, they don't just come out of nowhere." It takes a lot of work. Um, my last question for you is this, Cal, who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced your life and made you who you are today?

[02:02:40] Cal Callahan: In no particular order, the first, first one that comes to mind is, is, is Boyd Varty and The Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. And I got to meet Boyd back in 2019. I went to his Track Your Life retreat at Londolozi in South Africa. It was a five-day retreat with s- there was six [02:03:00] of us there, six men, so a really small group.

[02:03:03] Cal Callahan: I didn't know any of the guys. Uh, met Boyd, and, uh, yeah, just immediately, like, built a, a beautiful relationship with him. And so his book has been really i- influential in my book. Uh, I didn't write it 'cause he wrote a book, but when I was writing a book, I'm like, "I, I want it to feel like Boyd's book," that, uh, it's one of those books that, that, that people read.

[02:03:31] Cal Callahan: It lands for them. It's resonant. There's stuff in there. There's these gems, and they wanna, they wanna buy it for their friends. You know, I think Boyd, I think I probably bought 250 to 300 copies and given them out because I think it's that awesome of a book. And so Boyd, uh, and he's obviously done a ton of...

[02:03:51] Cal Callahan: Well, he's done a ton of Byron Katie's work and Martha Beck, and he's, yeah, just a beautiful teacher. I would say early [02:04:00] on when I was on this, I really, uh, was drawn to the work of Adyashanti. He was-- He just made everything make sense. He was the one who really drilled down this idea of kinda don't speak about anything that you don't have direct experience with.

[02:04:22] Cal Callahan: And so that was really meaningful for me as I did the podcast, and I just wanted to, yeah, wanted to ask the questions and then have my own experiences or to base my own understanding and beliefs on what I experienced, so he's been great. Oh, man. I mean, there's so many too I went through a, a, a, I think a really important period where I was listening to a lot of Ram Dass' stuff too.

[02:04:54] Cal Callahan: And once I finally started to get it, it like all came through. [02:05:00] And hi- his... I say one of his greatest teachings for me is basically kind of everyone shows up as your guru, and I started to really appreciate Peyton and my kids showing up as my guru. And just, like, accepting things kind of as they are. Like, I remember one time in particular, we had a s- issue with our pool where the, the, the slate on the pool was cracking, and then it was leaking, and it was a kind of a disaster.

[02:05:28] Cal Callahan: And it, like, on the one level, shouldn't have happened, right? That's a classic. But it had happened, and it was happening, and it was gonna need to get fixed. And I remember a, a woman who works with us and helps us around the house was, like, just bitching about it, bitching about the pool people, how could this happen?

[02:05:47] Cal Callahan: And I was just like It's, it's happened. We will sort out who's paying for what. If they'll pay for some of it, if I, if I pay for it. I mean, I don't know, but rather than get caught [02:06:00] in how did this happen, this shouldn't have happened, which is common for a lot of us, I just, in that moment, this was like three years ago, I was like, "It's happening."

[02:06:10] Cal Callahan: And it was like I could just see in that moment how I could absolutely cause myself to suffer if I wanted to go on that narrative. But for the time being, like, it's what's happening, and that, that type of acceptance has been really helpful for me when there's stress in the family, when there's stress with these finances.

[02:06:33] Cal Callahan: Yeah, how did this happen? How could I... Okay, get curious about that, but at the end of the day, it's happening. It's, get real with that, has been really helpful. So I say those three guys, um, are the first that come to mind.

[02:06:47] Luke Storey: Beautiful. Well, I'm glad we finally got to do this, dude.

[02:06:49] Cal Callahan: Yeah, thanks brother.

[02:06:50] Luke Storey: Um, one thing I love about having friends on the show is I get to learn so much more about them.

[02:06:56] Luke Storey: Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes you see people all the time, it's like even just [02:07:00] reading your book and just whizzing through it this morning, it was like, you know, learned a little bit about your childhood, where you come from. I go, "I consider Cal one of my good friends, and I even know a lot of this stuff," you know?

[02:07:09] Luke Storey: Yeah. So it's, it's cool. It's always fun to have this opportunity. Um, I feel like in these conversations w- we could be having the exact same conversation with no microphones or cameras.

[02:07:21] Cal Callahan: I just like to-

[02:07:21] Luke Storey: I mean, we might get a little weirder. Just a

[02:07:23] Cal Callahan: little, for sure. For

[02:07:24] Luke Storey: sure. A little more personal maybe in some cases, but m- mostly, I mean, this is like if you and I sat down like, "Hey, let's catch up," and we spent a couple of hours talking, it would look very similar to what we just did, you know?

[02:07:36] Luke Storey: Yeah. So I appreciate you making the time.

[02:07:38] Cal Callahan: Yeah, thanks man, and, and, uh, yeah, no, it's funny. I'll just say, I wanna say it's been three years or so since I told you, you found out I was writing a book, and you're like, "Come on the podcast." I was like, "Absolutely," and for so long, I just, I had had a weird relationship with the book in general, which I think you can r- that resonates with you.

[02:07:59] Cal Callahan: [02:08:00] And but I was so honored that you asked me to come on the podcast. And, uh, when I was finally ready to, you actually were the one who I think said something to me, like, "You wanna come on the podcast now that the book's out?" And so the reason I bring this up is, you know, the, the, the part of the reason I got into podcasting, I would say three, potentially four people were there, but it was you with the work you were doing.

[02:08:28] Cal Callahan: I had just built a relationship with Kyle Kingsbury, who had, has a podcast, and then Aubrey. And I just watched... It was almost like a blend of the three of you guys with a little maybe Joe Rogan mixed in, 'cause I can get a little bro-y, too. Uh, but just your is almost the way you held things, the sacred, right?

[02:08:53] Cal Callahan: And certainly a lot of the topics, I would say all your topics I'm interested in. [02:09:00] Most of them I wanna have guests on the podcast regarding. Some of it's just I'm not there yet. Uh, and then with Aubrey and Kyle, so the three of you with a little Joe Rogan mixed in were like, were my kind of Mount Rushmore of getting into podcasting.

[02:09:17] Cal Callahan: And, you know, I just have such a deep appreciation for, for you guys for doing the early work. I mean, I came in in 2020. That, podcasts were a

[02:09:28] Cal Callahan: thing for... At that point, everybody had a podcast as far as I could tell, you know what I mean? Yeah. When I was getting in, I was just another podcast. So yeah, I don't know if I've ever shared that with you, but yeah, thanks for all that, that kinda early work and, and holding it for 10 plus years.

[02:09:43] Luke Storey: That's cool.

[02:09:44] Luke Storey: I appreciate it. It's funny, when I started in 2016, uh, I felt like I was so late, and I, I went, "I felt like everyone has a podcast already." And now, you know, 10 years later, I'm like, "Holy shit, now seriously everyone has a podcast." [02:10:00]

[02:10:00] Cal Callahan: Yeah.

[02:10:00] Luke Storey: You know, which is great 'cause more information gets out, but it's like I was telling you earlier, it's f- it's funny, I've never really thought about, um, ratings or downloads or how relevant you are until recently when I just see people that kind of just come out of nowhere and they have a really, like, instantly massive platform.

[02:10:17] Luke Storey: It, it definitely gets me thinking, you know, like, "Well, is there something more or different I could be doing?" You know? It just feel like I just, I'm sort of habituated into this is what I do. But, um, yeah, I'm finding l- I'm looking for some more inspiration, ways to do things differently or I don't know exactly.

[02:10:39] Luke Storey: I'm kind of a- at a point that you were describing earlier in some ways of just, um, I won't say a midlife crisis, but definitely just kind of questioning what I'm doing, where I wanna go, you know, how I want this thing to continue, in what form, format, et cetera. So it's, it's reassuring to hear that it was, you know, inspirational [02:11:00] to you reminds me.

[02:11:01] Luke Storey: That happens every time I meet someone who's like, "Man, I've gotten so much out of your podcast." I go, "Okay, I'm gonna keep doing it."

[02:11:06] Cal Callahan: Yeah. And-

[02:11:07] Luke Storey: What about 10 years doing something, you go like, "I'm, is this what I'm supposed to be doing?" I just, I just keep doing it. I don't really stop and, and question it, you know?

[02:11:15] Cal Callahan: Yeah, and I think you're, yeah, you're, you're in, you and I are both in a season of questioning all these ways that we've been living our lives over the last number of years, and it's like, what, what do I actually wanna carry forward, and in what fashion do I wanna do it?

[02:11:33] Luke Storey: Yeah. Yeah.

[02:11:34] Cal Callahan: And it may not be changing in a significant way, but changing in a way that, yeah, is much It's, yeah, we kind of r- reignite that inspiration, and I think a lot of it has to do with decluttering.

[02:11:50] Cal Callahan: We start to start doing all these things to build a business, and then it's like, okay, what is, what is actually moving the needle, and what is just [02:12:00] draining my focus? Yeah. You know? But I think we need to get to these points where it's fucking kinda some nights you're not sleeping great, and other days your fucking head's spinning, and it's like, okay, I need to, I need to give this some space.

[02:12:14] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[02:12:14] Cal Callahan: Yeah, it's been- Yeah ... helpful.

[02:12:17] Luke Storey: For sure.

[02:12:17] Cal Callahan: Still learning. All right, dude. Yeah. But we did it.

[02:12:19] Luke Storey: Thanks again.

[02:12:19] Cal Callahan: Yeah, thank you.

[02:12:25] Luke Storey: What's up, friends? Glad you could hang out with me for this week's episode of The Lifestylist. If you wanna make sure you never miss a single damn thing, hit that subscribe or follow button right now, 'cause new episodes drop every Tuesday. Plus, the last Friday of every month, we do a raw Ask Me Anything session based on your questions.

[02:12:42] Luke Storey: And here's something a lot of listeners don't know. At lukestray.com/podcast, you can search the entire back catalog. I'm talking over 600 episodes of biohacking, spirituality, healing, and straight up truth bombs. You can punch in any topic or guest you're curious about, and you'll pull up exactly what [02:13:00] you want in seconds.

[02:13:01] Luke Storey: And hey, if today's episode moved you, share it with a friend. Text it, post it, slide it into a DM, whatever. Word of mouth is how this community grows. And I've got one request for you. If you've gotten value from this show, one simple way to give back is to leave a quick rating and review. It really helps me reach new people and lets me know which episodes hit the hardest.

[02:13:21] Luke Storey: And I can't emphasize enough how much your rating and review matters. There's a reason why almost every host begs their audiences to do it, but unfortunately, most listeners don't take action. So be the one who does. And once you do, go back and hit up lukestray.com/podcast where you can dive into all the archives, the audio, video, show notes, and of course, transcripts.

[02:13:43] Luke Storey: Thanks in advance for supporting the show, and until next time, be well, my friends.

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