541. Pornography, Parenting, Psychedelics & Rites of Passage

Josh Trent & Dr. John Lieurance

May 31, 2024

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

Josh Trent, Dr. John Lieurance (shop his products at mitozen.com and use LUKESTOREY for 5% off), and I dive into pornography, parenting, psychedelics, and rites of passage. Josh shares insights on fatherhood. Dr. John discusses innovative approaches to chronic conditions.

Josh Trent is the host of the Wellness+Wisdom Podcast and the creator of the BREATHE: Breath + Wellness Program. He has spent the past 20+ years as a trainer, researcher, and facilitator, discovering the physical and emotional intelligence for humans to thrive in our modern world – helping humans liberate their mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, and financial self through podcasts, programs, and global community who believe in optimizing our potential to live life well.

Dr. John Lieurance attended St Luke’s Medical School and Parker College of Chiropractic, and has a BA in Anatomy from New York State College. He has been involved in an integrated practice for over 25 years, practicing with MDs, DOs, APs, PTs, and DPMs in an integrated setting. With the successful integration of Neurology, Chiropractic, Naturopathy, LumoMed and Nutrition, he sees excellent clinical results.

He is the chief scientific officer of MitoZen, a cutting-edge healthcare technology company, which has a focus on powerful delivery systems such as nasal sprays, suppositories, and liposomal preparations.

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Luke or his guests. Please consult with your healthcare provider before using any products referenced. This podcast may contain paid endorsements for products or services.

I've brought a couple of powerhouse guests back to blow your mind and elevate your consciousness once again. Joining me are Josh Trent and Dr. John Lieurance, two extraordinary individuals who are reinventing how we think about an array of intense and intriguing topics: pornography, parenting, psychedelics, and rites of passage. 

Warning: This conversation is for mature audiences only.

First up, we have Josh Trent, a true modern day sage from Austin, Texas. Josh is the brilliant mind behind the Wellness+Wisdom Podcast and the creator of the BREATHE: Breath + Wellness Program. With over two decades of experience as a trainer, researcher, and facilitator, Josh is on a mission to help us all thrive in an increasingly chaotic world. 

In this one, we delve into the beautiful lessons fatherhood has gifted him, his growing appreciation for breathwork, and how experiencing birth changed his perspective on life – among many other deep dives and asides. 

Also joining us is the phenomenal Dr. John Lieurance, a seasoned expert and multi-episode guest on this very show, boasting a unique blend of training in neurology, chiropractic, and naturopathy over the last 25 years of integrated practice. Shop his products at mitozen.com and use code LUKESTOREY for 5% off.

Illuminated by Dr. John’s insight, we explore the double-edged sword of high sensitivity, the ultimate spiritual pressure wash of a vision quest, and the implications of porn addiction on our brains and relationships. Josh and I candidly share our personal journeys overcoming porn addiction, offering a beacon of hope for those struggling. 

We also share insight on a healthy approach to sexuality and our honest perspectives on the harmful act of circumcision.

Buckle up riders, and keep all hands and feet inside the vehicle. We’re unpacking some deep and potentially triggering topics in this conversation. But trust me, the levels of wisdom and healing to be gained here are immense. These men are such beautiful beings and shining examples of self-growth and expansion, tirelessly helping others to understand themselves and the people around them in a more meaningful and connective way.

(00:00:08) Current Interests & Explorations: Urine Therapy & Parenthood

  • Access links to Dr. John Lieurance’s past appearances below
  • Access links to Josh Trent’s past appearances below
  • Experimenting with urine nasal flush and urine therapy
  • Adding methylene blue to urine therapy to counteract bioweapons
  • Access links to Ian Mitchell’s past appearances below 
  • Josh’s perspective on the joy and growth found in fatherhood

(00:13:33) The Shadow Side of Wellness: Releasing Control & Supporting Sensitivity

  • Not needing to rely on supplements/biohacks
  • Dissecting the self-soothing practice of breathwork 
  • How we get out of our heads and into our body in the face of stress
  • Othership, Mettaverse Music, NuCalm, NeuroVizr
  • Tips for stacking wellness practices
  • Understanding the lessons from canary and bull moose archetypes 
  • The double-edged sword of high sensitivity
  • Prioritizing self-examination for a conscious life
  • Spiritual pressure wash with a vision quest (+ advice for addictive personalities)
  • Dark Room Retreat Dmt Trips, EMF Mitigation & Breathwork Awakenings #533
  • Insights from observing Breatharians 

(00:43:54) Practices for Conscious Living, Soul Contracts & Psychedelic Experiences

  • Working with the process of surrender in our own lives 
  • Practicing acceptance of dying (+ Luke’s favorite mantra around death)
  • How our societal construct pulls people away from contemplating mortality 
  • Trusting the process – even when things don’t feel great 
  • Lessons from near-death experiences and 5-MeO
  • How expansive bufo experiences have shaped our reality
  • Josh’s traumatic birth story and out-of-body experience
  • Rite of Passage: My Sacred Hunting Experience w/ Mansal Denton #348
  • What Luke learned from hunting about where energy goes after death
  • Would we want to come back to earth after death to support humanity?
  • Musing on the intersection of karma, dharma, and free will in soul contracts
  • The Psychology of Pinocchio by Jordan Peterson
  • The biggest motivators to begin a consciousness evolution

(01:28:19) Biohealing vs. Biohacking & The Importance of Prostate Testing

(01:50:05) Uncovering the Drivers of Porn Addiction & How to Break Free

(02:20:35) How Circumcision Impacts Male Psyche & Our Society

[00:00:00] Luke: So we were talking about doing nasal flushes with your own urine.

[00:00:06] John: It's perfect. This is a very advanced biohacking technique.

[00:00:14] Luke: John's like, that was supposed to be off mic. So you guys, we're talking to my good friends, Josh Trent and John Lieurance here, and we have no idea what's about to happen, but it'll be fun. We guarantee that. And the show notes for this one, before I forget, will be lukestorey.com/joshandjohn.

[00:00:33] And John's been on the show 47 times, which we'll put in the show notes, 367, 380, 397, 422, and 470. Josh has been on only once, which is sad. It should be more. Episode 223. And then you guys were both on episode 408 together.

[00:00:53] So I guess you have been on twice at least, to be fair. So there's a lot more to learn from these guys, but we're just going to shoot the shit and just share where we are in our lives and learn from one another and just have some fun. But I do want to know about the urine nasal flush.

[00:01:09] Josh: My interest is piqued.

[00:01:11] Luke: Yeah.

[00:01:12] John: So Ed Group, by this time, that podcast is probably already going to be released, and he's just a wealth of knowledge. He's someone that I was introduced to by a mutual friend, and he sent me a bunch of scientific information, and he was educating me about urine therapy.

[00:01:34] And I was shocked. I'd tried it personally maybe 15 or even 20 years ago, and I just stopped because it was just too gross for me. But I'd had some patients coming in that were doing it. And so after talking to Ed, I know you just made a comment that you were thinking you wanted to get back to it because he just lays it out like it's a no brainer.

[00:01:56] Luke: It's very compelling.

[00:01:58] John: Yes. Yeah.

[00:01:58] Luke: Very compelling. I think the reason I stopped was because I didn't have anything wrong at the time. So I couldn't tell if symptoms were getting better or anything because I was relatively healthy. And also, I was always afraid of reabsorbing toxins, which I learned today was fake news.

[00:02:19] I was under the understanding that your feces and your urine is where all of the toxins that your body dumps out go. Turns out that's not true of urine. And so that was one of the reasons I was like, I don't know. If I'm fleshing out heavy metals, or toxins, or whatever, am I just now drinking them back into the body? But it doesn't work like that according to the research. So yeah, I'm like, hmm, interesting.

[00:02:43] John: Yeah. The urine is fairly clean and fairly sterile to the point that people are injecting it. And I don't know if I would recommend that because we test people's urine. It's part of the semen test that we were doing.

[00:02:58] It's both semen and urine that I know we did with you. We're going to be talking about in our next podcast. But there's definitely bacteria that can be picked up in through the kidneys and through the urethra, and so forth, and the bladder.

[00:03:16] And so what's interesting to me though is it seems like anybody that is doing the injection protocol is just fine. Nobody's really reporting that they're having a lot of problems. So it's likely that it's safe. Just for me, I'm not really there yet. After talking to Ed, I started to utilize some rectally.

[00:03:41] Because for me, I can do that. And so it was a fleet enema, and I was collecting my first morning urine and then putting it in a fleet enema, and I was doing a rectal enema, and then holding that for 20, 30 minutes, and mixing it with some coffee. And I started to utilize a little bit of gold.

[00:04:02] I was putting some gold tincture in it, and then photo activating it with light. So I was really starting to play with it. Now I'm to the point where I'm actually drinking a few ounces of my first morning urine, and I'm in my first month to six weeks of just experimenting with it. And it does seem that there is some changes that I'm experiencing, better mood. I feel like I have more stamina and energy. I feel a sense of well-being after I drink it.

[00:04:35] Luke: I'm just giving you more footprint.

[00:04:36] John: And when I look into it, it's like your body is a self-regulating device. Your body needs to self-regulate itself. So if you're sending the signals, which are in the urine, so your hormones are excreted. And there can be trace toxins if your body is dealing with something.

[00:04:56] If you have a chronic infection, then there could be some byproducts and metabolites from that. But they're all signaling to the point where your body then can recognize these things, and it can make those adjustments necessary. And I think that's a big part of how that works. It's like a vaccine.

[00:05:13] Luke: Right. A real one, not a bioweapon. He was teaching me about the element of-- what was he saying about the urine? Oh, it was about antidotes, how antidotes are made. And he was talking about some of the research or just ancient practice in India. When somebody gets bit by a snake, it's one of the ways that they discovered urine out of therapy.

[00:05:37] Well, I was going to say in theory, but in fact, if you get stung by a scorpion or a bee sting, he was given the example of jellyfish. People know if you get stung by a jellyfish, you pee on it or pour pee on it. But basically, if you were to get bit by a rattlesnake and you wait 10 or 15 minutes and drink your own urine, you're cured.

[00:05:59] John: Wow.

[00:05:59] Luke: Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:06:00] John: That's crazy. Well, there's a lot of medicines.

[00:06:02] Luke: It's one of the reasons that it's helping people with the bioweapon, as he explained, because they're using spider venoms and snake venoms in certain batches of the bioweapon. It's part of the neurotoxicity of it. And so it's one way of neutralizing that if people have unfortunately undergone that experiment.

[00:06:18] John: Well, I know methylene blue can be beneficial in that way too. And so that would make an argument to be dosing yourself with methylene blue. And I've talked to Ed about this. He does the same thing where they collect the urine with the methylene blue in it.

[00:06:34] Luke: Oh, wow. He didn't mention that.

[00:06:35] John: So you're getting the best of both worlds.

[00:06:37] Luke: It's funny. I was going to ask him today if he was a fan of methylene blue, and I forgot.

[00:06:40] John: Yeah, they have a methylene blue product as well.

[00:06:43] Luke: Oh, they do?

[00:06:43] John: Yeah.

[00:06:43] Luke: Oh, okay. Yeah. His stuff is great, the Global Healing. We were talking about you today too, and he's a big fan of your products too, which is good. You have two founders or inventors, formulators and their fans. It helps validate each one.

[00:06:57] John: Especially if they're wizards.

[00:06:58] Luke: Yeah.

[00:06:59] John: They're a wizard.

[00:06:59] Luke: Well, I had Ian Mitchell over here yesterday, another incredible formulator. There's only a few of you guys that really make really effective, potent, and innovative, and unique supplements.

[00:07:10] John: Oh, thank you.

[00:07:11] Luke: So yeah, it's cool. I feel so lucky to be able to talk to cats, even just learn all about it. And it's fun because I was the geek in the health food store that would go through every aisle, look for every new product, read every ingredient, go study what it was, where it came from, all the things. And it's like, now I get to actually talk to the people making it. It's so fun.

[00:07:30] John: Yeah. It's amazing. He's such an alchemist. It's not just about the formulas. And I feel like I'm a bit of that myself, but there's energetics that go into these products and the use of gold. He uses gold, and we use in the blue eyes eyedrop. We have that biophotonic gold. Did he share that with you?

[00:07:53] Luke: Yeah. Oh, you're using that same stuff?

[00:07:56] John: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:56] Luke: Yeah, that sounds wild. Crazy. It's beyond monoatomic gold, right?

[00:08:02] John: Yeah.

[00:08:02] Luke: Yeah. Cool.

[00:08:04] John: Sweet. So advanced, bro. Next level.

[00:08:07] Luke: Josh, you just had another kid. How's fatherhood going?

[00:08:10] Josh: Yo. You know rock hounders where they search for diamonds? It's like a cave that has extra diamonds that just got discovered. So it's all this love that I didn't even know was possible. I do everything for my family. I love them. It's this inner drive that I could never access before.

[00:08:30] And it's so powerful because, God, it's like I knew what love was, but unconditional love, holding my daughter or holding my son, it's a totally different level of love than if I make love with Carrie Michelle, or if I hold her. It's a palpable experience that I think you just have to be a parent to understand. It's like you don't know till you know.

[00:08:50] And it's so special in so many ways, man. And honestly, since I've had children, it's been the most challenging and also the most amazing amounts of love. It's like the roots touch hell, but then the branches touch heaven. It's so incredible in every way, dude. I think being a parent is one of the greatest gifts of my life, if not the greatest gift of my life, because I allow myself to learn through my son and patience.

[00:09:14] There's no greater gift than when I'm triggered, when I'm underslept, when I'm like, the last thing I want to do is get up at 2:00 in the morning when he's screaming, and I just hold him anyways.

[00:09:28] But also, it's so much more love. It's just a way to experience life and learn about myself in such a beautiful way, man. It's so, so cool. I'm honestly doing my best to articulate it, but when you hold the child that comes from you, there's something that words can't even really describe the specialness of it, and just the joy and the service, the amount of service it calls forth for me. It's incredible in every way.

[00:09:54] John: When I find myself in situations like that, where life is just amazing, I tap into this. There's a projection of like this circumstance is making me or gifting me this feeling, where a subtle shift is like, I'm loving myself in this situation.

[00:10:13] Josh: Yes, yes.

[00:10:14] John: So you're actually discovering yourself in all these different levels.

[00:10:19] Josh: Well, it's a mirror. How I show up to my children is exactly how I show up to the rest of my life, because they are the ultimate conduit for just testing my capacity for patients, testing my capacity for holding them, which is exactly how I hold myself.

[00:10:35] So I get to see all the ways in which I'm not regulated. It's all the gifts that are getting exposed from being challenged in the most amazing yet challenging way. So it's like the challenge the greater capacity I have to show up, and to love, and to see myself They're the ultimate mirror.

[00:10:52] I know we've heard this a lot in our world, like children are a mirror They're a mirror in a way that there's nowhere to hide. None of me can hide, none of Josh can hide when I'm triggered and tired, and I still get to show up feeding him or holding my daughter. It's wild, dude. It's a rollercoaster.

[00:11:09] Luke: So being a dad is basically like living on ayahuasca.

[00:11:13] Josh: Essentially, yeah. It's like one big long ceremony.

[00:11:16] Luke: When you talk about there's no hiding, that's the one experience in which there's, for me, no hiding. Every nook and cranny of my entire life experience and everything about my character is going to be seen. And I feel like in that space, all the other souls with whom I'm in relationship, I've had experiences where all those souls are there too, and they see everything that I am and that I do and that I say in those experiences. Yeah, it made me think of that for some reason.

[00:11:45] John: It's like at some level we have secrets that we keep. And so how transparent are we with transparent?

[00:11:53] Josh: Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:54] John: Transparent. So I had a conversation with someone that channels last night, and she said, what secret do you have? And I'm like, oh, I just went blank. I couldn't really come up with a specific secret that I'm hiding, but there's so many levels that you can look at with that as far as when you really start thinking about what do I want to share with the world? And what am I keeping to myself?

[00:12:26] Josh: Yeah, we're only as liberated as our darkest secret because we can feel it. When someone's full of shit, I don't know if it's the redox system that Bush talks about, but you ever just get around somebody and you're like, yeah, what they're saying is cool, but something in my semantics doesn't really trust them.

[00:12:41] There's something about this person where I'm like, yeah, they sound great, and they're saying all the right things, but I don't feel them. I don't feel their heart. I don't trust them. And kids have that on lock. Children, they're so wise. They're so intelligent. They're their own muse in a way. You have the channeler who presents to you. My son knows exactly what's going on with me.

[00:13:03] He'll be like, what's up, daddy? How are you? I can't lie because if I lie, he'll know. A part of him will know about words. It's so trippy. It literally is a ceremony, dude. It is an ayahuasca ceremony, and it's 24/7. And it's beautiful.

[00:13:18] Luke: But you're not the one shitting your pants. They are.

[00:13:21] Josh: Yeah. I'm changing their diapers. I'm changing their diapers. Yeah.

[00:13:26] Luke: What do you guys think about-- how do I frame this? Okay, so all three of us are super into crazy health stuff. Maybe more so John and I. You do your stuff.

[00:13:38] Josh: No, you guys are pretty much next level. I like to play.

[00:13:41] Luke: Yeah. John's putting urine up his butt. I'm doing all kinds of crazy shit. And the thing that I'm always examining within myself, speaking of truth and being vulnerable and revelatory is how much of the practice is really self-love and self-care and wanting to have the vitality that is required to share your gift and your love with the world.

[00:14:10] That all makes sense. I can back that up. To me, that would justify having 5,000 supplements and all the ozone, and PMF, and red light, and saunas, and ice baths, and methylene blue injections in the prostate. But I also know because of my past and my childhood, that there were many things that were out of my control and ways in which I was harmed that were beyond my control and just chaos of my childhood in different ways and the PTSD that resulted from that. So there's a big part of the shadow side of that just being healthy and being in a wellness that is about control and contraction.

[00:14:51] And like, if I'm a little bit tired, I don't want that. So I stimulate. And then if I'm a little too stimulated, I'm always trying to control, which is what I did when I was an addict, right? I would take heroin because it would just totally knock me out and make me unconscious and dreamy and nothing bothered me.

[00:15:06] And then I would be too lethargic, so then I would do coke or something to come up. And then I was like doing that, and I find myself doing that with supplements and stuff now. It's not lost on me that I have addictive and obsessive, compulsive tendencies toward things that are really good for you, that are easy to justify because I'm just loving myself and taking care of my body, and the body is my temple, and all that.

[00:15:30] So there's, for me, a real-- and yeah, it's not the end of the world, but I like to evolve and be self-aware, and so I see like, man, a lot of the shit that I do is about control. And that to me doesn't feel healthy and expansive because it's based in fear and anxiety.

[00:15:49] And I know that that's present because I don't know that there's any amount of money you could give me-- right now if Josh was like, hey, here's 10 million. Throw away all your supplements, all your health technology. You can never use any of it for the rest of your life, ever. You just have to drink water and eat steak.

[00:16:05] I don't think I could do it. I wouldn't do it. I think the word I'm looking for, there's an attachment. So there's control, and there's attachment to like, ooh, I need my Update drink. Otherwise I won't be alert enough for the podcast. It's like, I need this. I need that.

[00:16:21] There's all of this externalized outsourcing of my resources and power. Again, on the shadow side, I live with a woman who doesn't need much outside of herself. She has all of these inner resources, and shamanic practices, and spiritual practices. And if she feels off, she goes within and sorts it out.

[00:16:42] Every once in a while, she takes a supplement or takes a sauna here and there or something, but she doesn't wake up every day in the same experience that I do, which is like, I need 50 things to be me. So just something that I'm always playing with. I don't have kids yet, so I haven't been able to surrender into the process of like, I can't have a four-hour morning ritual.

[00:17:05] Josh: It doesn't work.

[00:17:07] Luke: All the dads are like, yeah, enjoy it while you can because when you have a kid, that's all out the window.

[00:17:12] Josh: Dude, you know Paul Saladino? He was posting. He had hundreds of thousands of views on this post. He's here's my four-hour morning routine. And there was a parent that was like, you don't have kids, huh? And he tried to articulate some theory about how you can do it with kids. And I'm just like, it's just simply not possible.

[00:17:29] Luke: Maybe with two or three live-in nannies.

[00:17:33] Josh: Maybe. You bring up a really good point, man, because on the beach in Sarasota, we did some breathwork, and that's free. That's something we source inside of ourselves, but it creates this beautiful result outside of ourselves. And then if you stack that with some sprays and some different things, I think breathwork is the foundation for everything. Yes, I'm partial to it because I have a program, and I have students, but I think that breath is just the starting place for everything.

[00:18:00] You can stack on top of that, but breathing's free. You can do it wherever you are, as long as you know the fundamentals and the basics. And I think that is really the best thing that doesn't always require us to have an Update or supplements and whatnot. I think it can change the world essentially.

[00:18:18] Luke: What about even attachments to something like breathwork, even though it's not something that's exogenous. That you're like, you need something from outside of yourself, but still there could be an attachment even to feeling like, ooh, I can't be my best self unless I do my breathwork today.

[00:18:34] John: It's a self-soothing strategy. So what is driving the need to self-soothe? And I would offer that it's trust. It's like a deep level of trust. There's a trust with every breath. So what's activating you to take the inhale is, is there going to be more oxygen? I was listening to an interesting podcast.

[00:19:01] And I'm not remembering the name of this individual, but he's a big breathwork coach. And he's a psychologist, but he's also respiratory. He's into breathwork, and so forth, and so he's been able to marry those two together. And it's that relationship to CO2. And so it's like that trust that you've got all the oxygen that you have.

[00:19:25] And so how much blood oxygen level do you trust? And so as that oxygen level goes down and the CO2 goes up, that CO2 is triggering that fear response. And can you override that fear response and reset it? And so when you're talking about a state change with any substance, whether it's breathwork, or if it's an Update, or Zen spray, or something like that, it's like you're not fully trusting you in the moment to some degree.

[00:19:55] Josh: Well, dude, something I'm aware of is hypervigilance. I came from an environment where my mom was bipolar. My dad was gone, and I had to fight all the time with my words. It made me a great podcaster, but there are certain things where I get really nervous before a big show or if I'm going to speak on a stage, and so I actually think it's really healthy to just be honest with myself and go, okay, if I'm wired for hypervigilance, then what are the best healthy tools that I don't get addicted to that will actually allow me to be more centered, like turning down the volume, my default mode network, so I can actually get some blood flow to the PFC and not be a spaz case.

[00:20:31] And honestly, when I get in these moments where I get nervous, I just tell myself like, it's not about you, dude. It's actually an egoic thing for me to be super, super nervous. And so there's really great emotional intelligence in that because if I can do a show or put out some content that isn't about serving my ego, then breathwork is really the best powerful way for me to do that, to get out of my head and get in my body. And so that's a pretty cool one.

[00:21:01] John: What's so cool about breathwork is there's the discipline to actually do it. You're actually bringing your baseline dopamine levels up just like with ice plunging because it's something that initially, sometimes I'm like, oh, I really want to do breathwork, but sometimes it's like, ah, I know I'm going to feel a lot better afterwards.

[00:21:19] Luke: I never want to do it.

[00:21:21] John: And I go through long stretches where I don't, but--

[00:21:23] Luke: Do you guys ever use the Othership app?

[00:21:26] John: I've heard of it. Yeah. Robbie.

[00:21:28] Luke: Yeah. He was on the show. Put that in the show notes, Jarrod, if you don't mind. Othership. Incredible dude. They have all these different sets in the app with beautiful music. It's very well curated. But a lot of them are long. They have a few that are five, ten minutes or whatever. But you don't really get the impact from those. So I like the longer ones. There's even like a little folder or subsection called psychedelic, and it's all this holotropics and trippy stuff.

[00:21:53] I lay down the other day under the Lucio light, which is a great place to do breathwork. Speaking of shit outside of yourself, it's very outside of yourself. Even though the visions and stuff you get are made by your brain, which is wild. Anyway, I lay down. I put on Othership. I pick a track. I get two minutes into it, and I'm like, no, too hard.

[00:22:11] I'm just like, it's too much work. I noticed with breathwork though, it's called breath work, not breath play. I noticed there's a certain threshold. It's like running. If you get on an exercise bike or something, it sucks really bad. And then you hit this Goldilocks, and then you're just flowing, and it's easy.

[00:22:31] That's how breathwork is. If I can make it past that first three, five minutes, then I'm good for an hour, and I can go super deep. But to John's point, man, sometimes it's really hard. I'll have the idea, and I'm just like, no, too hard. And I'll bail.

[00:22:46] Josh: You know what's pretty cool? And I know you've played around with this, is using binaural beats to push you into that uncomfortable zone, especially the alpha two, the holy grail, getting yourself in a brain state where you're in flow a bit faster because you're getting the audio response. You're getting the olfactory response. So synergy stacking the binaural beats with breathwork is pretty sweet. I love that.

[00:23:09] There's a guy, Brian Larson, shout out to his company Mettaverse. And he created a bunch of binaural beat technology for the Breathe program. So stacking those two together is fun. And I think you can get people over that hump of like, yeah, I'm doing this for two minutes, and it sucks. And it's hard. I want to stop. But when you have the sound playing, it's like it guides you. It's almost like a whole--

[00:23:30] John: Well, the shift wave chair and also in harmony cushions, with acoustic therapy, that's really, really epic.

[00:23:37] Josh: John's got all the tools in his clinic, man.

[00:23:41] Luke: The NuCalm tracks are really good. Do you use NuCalm?

[00:23:45] Josh: I've tried it a few times.

[00:23:46] Luke: Oh man. Dude, I do it every day.

[00:23:49] Josh: I like the visor though, the Neurovisor?

[00:23:52] John: Yeah, that's another one. Try the Neurovisor on the shift wave chair of the InHarmony. Then you're getting vibrated. You're getting the light, and you're getting the sound with a little ketamine. Give me a call.

[00:24:03] Josh: John takes it to the next level.

[00:24:06] Luke: I'll pass this to John because, Josh, I do think you don't seem to have the extremist kind of-- and I don't mean right wing extremist, meaning you just don't like communism, but I mean John and I share, I don't know. You used to be an addict or drug problems, right?

[00:24:26] John: I've got a bit of an addictive personality.

[00:24:27] Luke: Yeah, you and I have an extreme personality. Everything is next level go on 11. Do you ever observe that in yourself of like your level of attachment or control versus just your level of self-love and curiosity?

[00:24:42] John: Yeah. Well, to your point with this whole idea of using supplements and all these biohacking strategies to change your state, you and I are very sensitive. That's another thing that we share. There's two types of people. I call them canaries or bull mooses. And most people, majority of people are bull mooses. The sensitivity that comes with a canary.

[00:25:09] They would take canaries down in the coal mines, and they would hit a gas line or something, and then the canary would die, and everybody get the heck out of the coal mine. So they're really sensitive. And so what happens with sensitive people is that we experience things much more dramatically. Oftentimes, we're not quite comfortable, where bull mooses are just like, oh, I'm fine, so no big deal.

[00:25:39] But canaries live a lot longer than bull mooses because they're adjusting to their environment. But it does lend itself a little bit to your point to being able to really feel, I think, more into some of those highs. You can really feel the richness of it.

[00:25:57] And you want to go back to that, and you want to feel more of that. And so a lot of these strategies give me a sense of bliss when I do my breathwork, and I'm sun gazing at the beach, or you're doing saunas and hyperbaric. I'm doing all my routines. I feel amazing.

[00:26:16] And then at the other side of it, I just had a day of traveling. I just got here, and so although I feel good now because I've done all these different drinks and stuff since I've been here, but when we get worn out, we get a little grumpy, and I'd say like we would be more apt to want to reach for an Update, or do a Zen, or do something that we'd want to get back to that feeling of bliss.

[00:26:42] Luke: Yeah, totally. You're so right with the high sensitivity. It's a double-edged sword because it enables you to, I don't know, operate in a world that's really tapped in to the spectrum of experience and also to be able to really feel people. There's a gift in it, having high empathy and having situational awareness, emotional intelligence, all that.

[00:27:10] But the downside is you get on an airplane for a couple hours and you're trashed. There's things that I am really fatigued by or bothered by that you're, like you said, the bull moose person is just like, well, what are you talking about? I feel great. And I'm just like, how, dude? I need to do all these things to feel my best self.

[00:27:28] But also, you set new thresholds for how good and vital you can feel too. And then that becomes your baseline. And so if you're a highly sensitive person and you get knocked back down a couple of notches by something in your environment or whatever, then you know what it feels like to feel really vital and well rested, and emotionally stable, and neurochemistry is on point. Sleep's good. If you know that life, it's difficult to settle for anything less.

[00:27:59] John: Yeah.

[00:27:59] Luke: Let's have you dip down, you're like, all right, I got to do the 50 things to bring me back to my peak state. It's just interesting. And I don't know that there's a right or wrong with any of it, but I do know that a life unexamined is an unconscious life, and so I like to just question myself and ask myself hard questions about the way I am.

[00:28:19] And then also, there's a lot of self-acceptance in that. For me, it's like I was in a ceremony a couple of years ago with a guy that I didn't know amongst other people, and the medicine hit a heart opener pretty strong for me, real strong for him, and he's over on the floor to stretch and tripping out.

[00:28:37] And then he looks over at me. He goes, Luke, come here. I need to talk to you. Do you have space for that? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, I need to tell you something. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. What's he going to say? He looked me in the eyes and he goes, Luke, you're always going to need something.

[00:28:54] And that was it. And all night I thought about, what the fuck was that all about? And I never figured it out. And a couple of months later, I texted him, and I said, hey, you might not remember this, but it stuck with me. I can't stop thinking about it. And I told him what he said. And he's like, I have no idea. I said that?

[00:29:13] John: There's what you need and what you think you need. You're always going to feel like you need something versus what do you really need.

[00:29:21] Luke: That statement, though, has been something I've been unpacking for a couple of years because I realized, wow, it's like I always have my little nicotine pouches. I do. I always need something to feel complete and whole. And so that is something I've been critical of myself for. And then unpacking that, it led me all the way back to not being breastfed.

[00:29:47] And I'm doing research on that and how that affects you psychologically because that's a part that I'm writing in my book, and I'm like, holy shit. Because of things that I experienced in infancy and as a kid, I am super sensitive, and I am just the kind of person who needs shit.

[00:30:05] And so I've had to just accept that about myself. And it also, because Alyson's not that way, she's questioned that in me at times, like, Luke, can you just live and just be you? Why do you need to do all this? And that, at times, has made me feel like, God, maybe she's right.

[00:30:25] There's something wrong. I shouldn't be the way I am. And through just self inquiry and just looking at all of this, I've come to understand it's like, wow, maybe he was right. Maybe I will always need something, and is there anything wrong with that?

[00:30:41] John: Well, there's two sides to it because I'm going through exactly the same thing, because you know me, I'm out and about, and I've got all these bottles and tinctures, and oils, and it's part of what I like to do, but it's become somewhat of a little bit of an OCD thing with me.

[00:30:58] And I've been through the exact same process that you're talking about, and so it's unpacking that, and there's not just the act, but there's a little bit of shame associated with the idea of John that always needs something. I'm observing myself, and there's a little bit of shame.

[00:31:21] To be honest with you, when you brought it up, I was sitting here thinking I don't really want to talk about this in front of the podcast. This isn't where I want to go, whatever. This is what we do. We share our deepest things.

[00:31:36] Luke: That's the beauty in long form.

[00:31:36] John: That's the shadow work especially.

[00:31:37] Luke: It is, and that's the beauty in long-form media and independent media, is we can sit here and have a two or three-hour conversation, and not everyone's going to want to listen to it at all, and some not all the way through.

[00:31:47] But if you keep going and you keep revealing your truth in a public way-- of course, we all have boundaries. There's a few things I wouldn't talk about, but not very many. Because then what happens is we give each other permission in this moment to just like, let's just keep it real, man. And then we forget the mics are on, and who's going to hear it, and how we might be judged, or rejected, or condemned, or trolled, or whatever.

[00:32:11] But there's many people that hear this that are supplement fanatics or whatever, and a few of them are going to go, huh, never thought about that. I'm going to look at my own behavior. And then it's going to give them permission to look at themselves in a more honest way.

[00:32:28] And also it's going to give certain people permission to talk about this with their friends or talk about it on another podcast. It's like the independent media has created this ecosystem, which is so beautiful, where we can finally actually just be authentic and vulnerable in a public way, and it gives everyone permission to do that.

[00:32:48] John: Are you familiar with the Jewish practice of Shabbat?

[00:32:53] Luke: I'm aware that my Jewish friends in LA would be like, I can't do it. It's Shabbat night. I don't know what they're doing.

[00:33:00] John: They don't do any TV or computer work. It's a day of prayer and reflection. And so I've been doing a day of Shabbat. That's my step forward to start to deal with this for my own personal growth. It's a day where I'm not going to take all my supplements and tinctures, and take a break from all the biohacking stuff.

[00:33:21] Luke: Oh, cool. I literally don't think I can do it.

[00:33:25] Josh: I'm just sitting here listening to you guys, just feeling the call to tell you this, and everybody here who's dealing with like maybe addictive personality types, the vision quest experience. It's funny. The last time we did that quad cast [Inaudible]. I had all those insights, and I missed it this year, and I'm craving being in nature because you literally just get your breath, a tarp, a sleeping bag, and water. That's all you get for four days.

[00:33:48] I know ayahuasca and plant medicines, super powerful, super healing. How many insights that we all had from some type of medicine going, this is what you need to look at. But there's something so insanely powerful and so pure about just being with yourself for four days with no food, in the middle of nature.

[00:34:08] That, I believe, is the ultimate spiritual pressure wash. If you want to find yourself, you don't actually need all these medicines. They're powerful. They're beautiful. They're beautiful. I'm not anti plant medicine, but doing a vision quest is, I believe, probably the most powerful ceremony you could do without ingesting anything.

[00:34:25] John: I think you are right on as far as what we're talking about. That's probably one of the best practices you can do.

[00:34:29] Josh: Yeah. I'm just like, you guys get to do that.

[00:34:32] Luke: That really resonates with me.

[00:34:33] Josh: In your lives and for anybody that deals with addictiveness, doing a complete removal of everything from the modernity and just being in nature, I can't think of anything more powerful, honestly. Yes, 5-MeO can blast you to the cosmos. And even doing deep breathwork journeys is powerful.

[00:34:50] But there is something that is just unspeakable, -- you could never really understand, much like being a parent, by just being in nature with yourself and your thoughts. I was having visions. I was talking to my grandfather who died in 2002. The level of introspection you can get when everything is removed is so intense. It's so palpable that I don't think anybody could go through a vision quest experience and not be fundamentally, wholeheartedly changed. So that's definitely--

[00:35:17] John: Have you done one in total darkness before?

[00:35:19] Josh: No. I know our buddy from [Inaudible].

[00:35:21] John: That's where I was going to--

[00:35:22] Luke: I love these dark retreats.

[00:35:23] John: I'm supposed to go with him later this year. It's a 10-day.

[00:35:25] Josh: Okay, watch out, John.

[00:35:27] Luke: I want to do it, but honestly, I am scared shitless.

[00:35:31] Josh: I know. Me too. I don't want dark retreats be a tough guy.

[00:35:37] Luke: I can't really think of too many things that scare me. 5-MeO-DMT scares me. It scares the ego. It doesn't scare me, but the ego is not interested in that experience. But the darkness shit, dude--

[00:35:49] Josh: What do you think will come up for you?

[00:35:52] Luke: I don't know. I just feel like I would be restless.

[00:35:56] John: Oh, you would be.

[00:35:57] Luke: There's no Update drinks. It's just like, dude. Yeah, it scares the shit out of me. And that's why I want to do it. Because I'm like, okay, anything that's healthy and good for you and nurturing to your body, mind, spirit, if I'm afraid of something like that, that literally has no risks involved whatsoever in reality, and I'm afraid of it. Then that means there's a part of me that doesn't want to die. And that's the part that says, ah, too hard, too weird, too far away, too much money, whatever, and it'll find a million excuses to not do it.

[00:36:33] John: We are extremists, so that's the most extreme meditation practice you can do, right?

[00:36:40] Luke: Right. And I really would Pavel, that's who you said?

[00:36:42] Josh: Pavel.

[00:36:43] Luke: Yeah, fun guy. I know you guys are both friends with him. Did you even introduce me to him? I forget how we found one another.

[00:36:50] Josh: He just travels the world like 300 days a year. He knows everyone.

[00:36:53] Luke: And he's done a bunch of those darkness retreats, but the woman he does it with is going to retire, I think, in a year or something. And I'm like, I really want to do it with her. One thing that's interesting about her, and I forget her name offhand, but it's in Pavel's podcast, they do it in Thailand, I think.

[00:37:11] Because I heard her on Alec Zeck's podcast, The Way Forward, and I bookmarked it. I was like, this woman is tapped in. She's a real breatharian. There's fake breatharians out there that eat tuna fish backstage and shit. She's not that. You can tell from hearing her. It's been, I don't know, a couple of decades, and she doesn't eat food.

[00:37:33] John: Wow.

[00:37:33] Luke: She just lives off prana, for real. And part of how she developed the ability to do that is in the darkness retreats, doing a zillion of them, and now she hosts them and facilitates them. That's very interesting to me because that flies in the face of everything we're all doing.

[00:37:48] It's like, oh, I get my blood work. I'm low on B vitamins. Take B vitamins. It's like, where's she getting B vitamins? Because I'll talk shit about my days as a vegetarian and how I was so deprived of fat soluble nutrients. My teeth rotted out, and I had all these issues. I don't think a vegan diet is good for you. I say that publicly, but God bless if that's what you want to do. But I'm looking at the data, and I'm going, well--

[00:38:14] John: What's the chemistry in her body?

[00:38:15] Luke: Yeah. If you're a vegan, for example, how are you going to get retinol? How are you going to get creatine? These are things that the body needs, vitamin K, etc. I guess you can supplement them, but if you have to supplement them, that means your body's supposed to have them. So your body's supposed to be eating the food that has them. Anyway, I digress. Being a breatharian flies in the face of all that, taking supplements, doing the biohacks. All that shit is out the window if you are able to harness the ethers, the power in the ethers.

[00:38:45] Josh: Look at what Wim Hof does. He raises his core temperature in ice. The power of his mind and the power of this breatharian's mind, literally. Psycho neurologically, they've changed the way that they associate to what they think they need. So maybe in these people, their body is creating the B vitamins just from thought. And that's tricky to even consider. But I think that's probably what's going on with the Wim Hofs and the breatharians, or these super extreme people.

[00:39:11] John: It's like, is there a scientific explanation for it, or is it back to the fact that we're creating our reality, and we're manifesting from our intention through the quantum? Are these people really Buddha minding, bodhisattvaing reality so that you can't explain it from a molecular, scientific, medical standpoint, or is there actually an explanation? Are there pathways that they're utilizing? I'd love to see this research.

[00:39:45] Luke: I think it's just spooky voodoo. It's like the people that have these miraculous healings following Joe Dispenza's work. He's got a whole team of scientists in the back of the room doing QEGs, and blood tests, and all this stuff and people's markers change.

[00:39:59] John: But they've been able to explain it to some degree.

[00:40:02] Luke: They have?

[00:40:03] John: Yes. So when meditators go into that high gamma, there's exosomes in huge amounts that are released in their body. And I noticed, when they first announced it, when they first came out with the research, there's tiny little vesicles, and we're looking into it. And I've been using exosomes in my practice for regenerative medicine from stem cells.

[00:40:28] I'm like, oh, those are exosomes. And so they've gone through, and could be VSELs too. I know Todd Ovokaitys was like, no, I think it's VSELS. But there's some spontaneous release of healing substance that they find actually in the blood with these meditators.

[00:40:45] Luke: Wild. The results that some people get is just crazy. And the people that are the healies, when they do the coherence healings, people legit have tumors disappear. It's wild, dude.

[00:40:58] Josh: What about the Buddhist monks that literally sit in the snow with wet t-shirts and just breathe and use intention to dry the wet t-shirts in the snow? How do you explain that scientifically? There's certain things that science just can't explain.

[00:41:12] Science is always looking for the quantified self and like, how do you get all the markers, and how do you explain what Wim Hof, and breatharians, and these monks are doing? Certain things just cannot be. I'm sure you've seen this in your practice.

[00:41:23] There's certain people that just heal themselves through power of thought, through power of intention that cannot always be quantified and explained. And I think that's the mystery of God. That's really just God working through.

[00:41:34] Luke: Yeah. And it's the human mind that wants to quantify God, and it can't, and it hates that.

[00:41:40] Josh: What's the meaning of it all?

[00:41:41] Luke: Yeah. Where are you guys in your process of surrender? How are you working with that principle as a practice?

[00:41:52] Josh: Well, we're buying a house, shout out. We're going to get on my birthday. That's a surrender process, doing it while running a business, and being a father, and being a partner. There's certain things that I just feel the greater the struggle, the greater the victory.

[00:42:07] So am I completely surrendered to life? Fuck no. I'm definitely not. But I think that in my maturation process. I've just called in different challenges that almost touch and force me to look at the parts of myself that, to quote Peter Crone, aren't free. So there's certain parts of myself that are longing, that are just desiring this freedom.

[00:42:29] And I would say the number one thing for me that I'm still working on, man, at 43, 44 now, is just this acceptance of dying, the acceptance of death and being okay with death. And there's just such a paradox because on one side of it, I was walking on our new land, and I was looking at my son playing with Carrie Michelle, and I was like, wow, there'll be one day where I don't get to hold him anymore. And it's so sad.

[00:42:53] We won't be able to podcast anymore. You won't be able to heal people anymore. And there's a sadness in that, but there's a beautiful gift in the sadness. And so I'm really training myself currently to just feel the fucking sadness of it all. Because if I allow myself to feel it, then within moments, dude, I'm a fucking dealer of feelings.

[00:43:13] Within moments, I can just be like, wow. Actually, the sadness propels me to just be grateful for this, to just be grateful to be here with you guys, or to be grateful to just have what I have. And so do I have it on lock? No. I don't have it on lock yet, but it's definitely something that I'm really, especially as I'm getting older, just understanding that we will die. And death is a very powerful teacher. So that's my current level of surrender.

[00:43:40] Luke: One of my mantras around death is paraphrased from, I think, a Greek philosopher. Goes something like, if you die before you die, you don't die when you die. It's building that relationship with your eternal self as you're here, enshrined in this incarnation, in this body.

[00:44:02] It's like allowing self to die, and that's what I hear in that. And I've had that experience so many times with Alyson, where we'll just be in a beautiful moment of presence and connection, and I just feel such a depth of love for her, and I'll look at her, and it's like, my heart's breaking because I know it's so temporary in this form.

[00:44:23] I think that's what I take from that. Die before you die is like, die to form, die to form, die to form, die to form, over and over and over again, any opportunity you get. It's just savoring. Wow. This chair's dust in a landfill in a few years. Our bodies have been eaten by microbes. The way I did my will, I'm going to be buried in the backyard.

[00:44:45] Josh: I want to be turned into a tree, man. I want to be planted as a tree. That'd be really cool.

[00:44:49] Luke: I really want to offer back to the earth. So I think about things like that. I find the more I face my mortality, the less afraid of it I am. And to your point of the gratitude, it's like, man, to have those moments where your heart is preemptively cracking open increases your capacity for love.

[00:45:09] It's like when I look at her and I'm like, oh, this hurts to just know that, ah, this is slipping through my fingers right now. Then it's like, oh, wow. Then it's even more beautiful than it was because you know how this version of this consciousness in this form right now in this moment is gone already. The moment you even see it and identify it and feel it, it's already gone.

[00:45:37] Josh: That brings up, before you share, our entire societal construct is built upon pulling people away from presencing their own death. It really is. Because look at the traditional male activity. The man came on the weekend fucking watching football for 24 hours. Just alcohol, porn, drugs, sex, shopping, overworking, all these things are just societal tools that harvest our own presence from ourselves.

[00:46:05] And it's so sad, and I'm like, I look at the way I used to be with compassion, where I had a long stint with marijuana, and pornography use, and unconscious sex, and in a way, it's like I had to experience that. I had to experience the fucking crunchy shit to know that that doesn't fill the bottomless hole in my soul. The government hungry ghost analogy.

[00:46:26] There's a hungry ghost in all of us. And I think the more we can defend ourselves, build a scaffolding of support with friends, with this podcast, with our friendship, with our consciousness, to be able to fend away these clutches of modernity, they're just trying to siphon our attention.

[00:46:41] Look at the phone. Look at social. Look at everything that's going on in our world. It's challenging to be present on purpose because that is how society is designed, to literally monetize and weaponize attention as a way that pulls us away from us. And so I think that's why it's so important we actually do the biohacking.

[00:47:01] And you know what? Who cares if you're addicted to biohacking? At least it's bringing you closer to you. At least it's bringing you closer to yourself. So it's really important that we all recognize not to be too serious, but we're in a war for the soul and for the mind.

[00:47:15] It's all around us at all times. People that are here watching, listening to the podcast, they have a huge leg up because at least they're interested in what we're talking about. And there's that spark of curiosity that they go, oh, yeah, I am being monetized. I am being siphoned of my chi, of my life force energy. That is a really big, profound gong hit for, I think, everyone.

[00:47:36] Luke: We need a gong on set.

[00:47:37] Josh: Like Alan Watts used to say, you want to know what reality is? It's this. Boom. That's reality, right? So the further away we are from that, then we're not going to have a high quality of life. We're not going to be able to love and connect and be here for each other, or for ourselves.

[00:47:53] Luke: Amen. So what about you and your relationship to surrender? And I think there's more to that question. It's like many people's perspective as surrender is that you just lay down and let life happen. And to me, it's a little more--

[00:48:10] John: It's passive.

[00:48:10] Luke: Well, no. It's that I'm taking action to get from point A to point B, whatever that might be. So it's not that I'm surrendering action. I'm surrendering the results that I want from those actions. So I call it surrendered action. Because you could just go live in a cave and meditate the rest of your life and probably be great, but if some of us feel drawn to contribute to the world, like I know all three of us do, to really leave a mark on humanity and do some good, then it requires proactivity.

[00:48:44] So how do we detach from the expectations of that activity? And to me, that's where the surrender-- it's all in the outcomes. Sorry, I meant to ask you the question, and I gave my opinion, but that's the relationship, how it's evolved for me over 29 years of just first even hearing that word and being the key to my sobriety, which is what was really necessary, was for me to surrender my vein, completely futile attempts to fix my own problem on my own.

[00:49:17] It's just nothing was happening. It never did. And then it was like, I turned it over to God, and all of a sudden, I'm sober. It's just mind blowing. I'm still in constant awe that I'm sitting here and I'm not drunk or high. It's crazy. It's crazy. I literally can't believe it.

[00:49:36] And the reason why is one reason and one reason only, I surrendered. I was beat down enough into a state of humility and teachability at 26 years old that I just said, I'm done. I literally can't do this anymore. I'm going to die. And I can't save myself. So if I can't do it, who's going to do it? Another person? A judge? A parent? A cop? A lawyer? No one's doing this for me. So there's one choice left, and that's a God that I totally don't believe in. I didn't at the time. I was like, but I'm pinned in a corner. I pinned myself in a corner. There's nowhere to turn. There's no escape except asking God to help me.

[00:50:17] And it did. And that was the seed of it. But then there was action that needed to take place, and still is, in order to keep that conduit live, keep that wire live between me and my God, so that I can expand the spectrum of things in my life that I'm willing to surrender to the depth that I did my addiction.

[00:50:43] And I think that's why I look at things like my attachments to substances and things outside of myself and all the practices. It's like, well, am I willing to surrender all of that? And maybe surrendering all of that is just surrendering to what I was saying. I need something all the time. Maybe it's surrendering that that's just my nature, and surrendering to that, and not feeling like I need to be perfect or need to be different, and then I'll be doing it right. Maybe I'm doing it right. This is right for me. So anyway, that's my take.

[00:51:13] John: It's layers of onions. It's like you're going through these different layers and accepting yourself as someone that is not completely let at ease in the moment, that you're wanting to reach for something. And then from there, I think there's a level of relaxation that happens that then you can take to the next layer, which is maybe I don't need that. I've said this before, but the two core wounds, the way I see it is, I'm not enough.

[00:51:45] I'm not love. I'm not lovable. And so these two core wounds then below that is annihilation. You are no longer-- so if it's not necessarily death, like if someone could be totally solid in the fact that there's an afterlife-- I think there's an interesting movie coming out about that, that I saw. It's on Netflix or something. And there was a scientist that was able to totally prove that there's an afterlife, so everybody started to commit suicide. It's like, they want to get there because he came and showed. You miss out on the game that way though.

[00:52:20] I think Robert Redford's the scientist on it. I think it's out actually. So this idea of surrendering and trusting that you are enough and that you are lovable is really, I think, at the deepest core of it. And for me, I find myself possibly stuck in traffic or there's a lot of delays in me getting out here.

[00:52:49] I didn't really get charged up about it, like historically I might, because I just immediately go into like, I'm exactly where I need to be. God has circled on the map, and I'm right where I need to be. Even thinking, okay, well, maybe it was saving me from being in a car accident. Because I'm here.

[00:53:09] There's all the thoughts that you've had about maybe this shouldn't be this way, or this should be this way. But all of those things have led me to this moment right here, which is pretty awesome. And so for me, trusting, even when things aren't great, it's becoming easier, I think, as I'm getting older.

[00:53:30] I don't know if it's just more practice that I'm doing with it, but anybody that's listening to this, just in those moments where things feel like they're not going the way that you want them to go, just relax into the idea that it's probably just perfect.

[00:53:46] Because a lot of times we're in these really stressful situations, and then afterwards we discover that like, oh, that was actually perfect. I'm glad that happened. There was something that happened where I got charged something, but then when I went back to correct it with the bank or something, I actually got an extra fee or a discount, and I made more money. But in the moment, you're like, oh no. But then how often does that happen in your life? I think that happens a lot.

[00:54:15] Luke: Constantly. Yeah. That happened the other day with Josh. As he said, he's been house shopping, and so he sent me a house, which I was really excited about because it was 15 minutes away and had lake access. I have lake access, but not where you can swim. You have to have a boat.

[00:54:30] So I was stoked for him. He was stoked. And then I'm wearing it loosely because I know how the shit can go when you're putting offers on houses and stuff. It's crazy. You just never know. Then he didn't get it. I was like, oh, bummer. And I sent him a text, something to the effect of, "You already know this, Josh, but there's going to be a time in the very near future when you're sitting in the house you're supposed to be in. And you're going to look at that one and be like, that was whack. Thank God I didn't get that house." And that's what happened.

[00:54:58] Josh: That's exactly what happened.

[00:54:59] Luke: Now your new house is so much more gangster, bigger lot. Everything about it is just a better fit. But that's super easy for me outside of it because I have no skin in the game. It's not going to affect my life if Josh lives in this one or that one.

[00:55:14] So it's always easier to help soothe other people in that because you know it's going to be the best thing ever. God's going to orchestrate the ultimate outcome for all of creation all the time, but when it's happening to you and you have your hooks in these ideas and these outcomes, it's easier said than done.

[00:55:32] But like you said, with practice, it gets easier, man. I'm able to let go of shit pretty damn quick. When I don't get my way, I know my way probably sucked. And I'm trusting that there's going to be a better way. There's a couple of things in my life now that are pretty big, and they're not going the way I think they should go.

[00:55:52] And I'm just like, okay, this will be interesting. Just wait. Wait and see. That's a great mantra. Just like, let's wait and see before we judge this as it should be this way or it should be that way. Who knows? Maybe. We don't know.

[00:56:04] Josh: It's so easy to provide divine wisdom when you're not in the suck. When you're on the outside of someone else's, when you're on the outside of someone else's suck, it's like you're on a perch. So Luke, you loft this crazy wisdom at me via text. I'm just like, I don't want to hear it at the time.

[00:56:23] But I can flash back to a lot of things in my life where maybe I wasn't close to death, but I was even feeling when you were talking about how many times you have been close to death. I remember you shared about that. You've been very sick. You've been very sick with Lyme to the point where you had to come face to face with your mortality. That's where you earn the wisdom.

[00:56:43] I just don't think sometimes we're able, even if we're very evolved, to be able to take in wisdom when we're in the middle of the crunch because it's almost like if we would just accept-- if I were to accept your wisdom without going through my own process, then I'm robbed of my process, and I can't think of a greater, more powerful process than actually facing death through some divine illness that comes in to teach you.

[00:57:06] John: Or then there's 5-MeO.

[00:57:08] Luke: I'll do it.

[00:57:09] John: Then there's that. Which honestly, that was my biggest, greatest teacher, all medicines.

[00:57:14] Luke: Me too.

[00:57:14] John: You're 15, 20 minutes into it, and just complete ego death. The mind is just not there anymore, and it's just your awareness, and it's beautiful. You're like, wow.

[00:57:30] Luke: It's hardcore.

[00:57:31] John: And in the essence, that's the ultimate surrender. It's you're surrendering your ego.

[00:57:36] Luke: 100%. There's no experience in my life at that depth of surrender. Yeah. The last time I did it, I felt like I was not in reality because it can't kill you because it doesn't suppress your respiratory system. So I know that I'm not dying, but so much of my persona, the intellect, the ego, all of the body association, all of that is so suppressed during those moments.

[00:58:12] I felt like I went as close as I possibly could to just leaving my body. There's enough awareness still. You said the word awareness. All there is left is awareness in that space, but there's not a subjective you so much as the observer. It's like you're really merging with the observed. So the observer and the observed cross over and you're just in the fabric of totality.

[00:58:38] John: Good explanation. Yeah.

[00:58:40] Luke: So there's a you in there kind of, but not much of you. And so that, I think, has got to be pretty close to what it's like when you leave your body. And the thing that really helped me with the fear of death and those experiences is that, even though the body's gone and the mind's gone and there's not really a you there, awareness is still there.

[00:59:05] And there's a very thin thread tying the you to awareness, but it's more awareness than it is you as a Luke Storey, as a John Lieurance. It's like, where the fuck are we? I don't know, but I'm still aware. There's still an awareness. And I remember surrendering into just the intensity of that and just going, okay, God, I'll go wherever you want to go. Okay, we're going. We're going.

[00:59:35] And I'm just pushing through all boundaries of what would feel safe. There's nothing to hang on to. You're just free floating in pure consciousness. You're as close as you get to non duality. And it would be complete non duality if there wasn't still awareness.

[00:59:54] Because there's still awareness being aware of awareness. There's still two, but man, not much of two. It's pretty much one thing. And there's other ways I'm sure to get there, but that's such a beautiful exercise in surrender and trust, and knowing like, wow, I still exist even though I'm dead in a way, in the classical sense of what we feel to be in a body. I exist. There's a me. Here's my knees. I can feel my hands. I can see you guys. I hear my voice. I hear the air conditioner. There's this multi awareness, but it's all relegated to the world of form. It's all in the particle.

[01:00:37] And then when you go full wave, past particle, it's scary because there's no particle there to grab onto. You're just wave. You're in the full quantum experience. But then when you come back, it's like, I don't know. For me, the beauty in it is that nothing is that serious. There's a deep understanding that everything that's happening right now is a fucking dream.

[01:01:04] Just like when you go to sleep and you dream and it seems so real and then you wake up. It's like, which one's the reality? The dream or when you wake up? That's how Bufo is. It's like, I don't know. Maybe that's actually the reality and this is the dream. That's what it seems like to me.

[01:01:20] John: Yeah. You're deep in the quantum where everything is emanating from. Everything's being created from this other dimension, if you will. And it's like the creation is in a vertical. It's like we're in this horizontal where there's moment after moment after moment. But when you go into that space, you're entering this now vertical moment of everything.

[01:01:47] Luke: Eternal now.

[01:01:48] John: All at once. And it's overwhelming. I'd imagine that as human beings, where we're at right now, we're only being shown just a tiny little sliver of what that really is.

[01:02:00] Luke: Yeah.

[01:02:04] Josh: I'm not in the 5-MeO camp. I respect you guys for going. That's a very courageous journey. But I had an experience of that when my daughter was born. She was born at 9,000 feet in Colorado. You want to talk about surrender. With respect, I'll just share. We had an unplanned hospital visit with the birth of my son, which was very traumatic.

[01:02:25] Ten days in the NICU, and then Child Protective Services coming to our house. So there was a lot of clearing and fear clearing that we had to do, specifically Carrie, because having a V back is not always the norm, a vaginal birth after cesarean. And so I had to go to the depths of my soul where I was like, you know what? I'm okay with trusting her.

[01:02:45] I'm okay with however this girl comes into the world. And I'll never forget we're at 9,000 feet. We're outside of this wading pool. There's two old-school, just total wizard women, these divine women guiding her through the journey. And there, I saw my daughter's head poke through.

[01:03:02] And I had an experience of watching myself because I had so many-- when you're a father watching a birth experience, there is an out-of-body experience for you because you're just watching. I was watching myself watch my daughter be born, and that was the first time I've had a true almost like psychedelic drug experience outside of vision quest or ceremony where I got to watch Josh not watch Naya be born.

[01:03:29] And that, for me, just for maybe, I don't know, 30 seconds or so, I didn't exist. I was just so focused on this quantum where she comes from. You talked about the quantum. My daughter came from the origin of life itself, and I was just watching it. I was watching myself watch her be born. My fingers are twitching from the energy I'm even describing right now.

[01:03:53] It's so beautiful, but it's the ultimate act of surrender watching a child be born because there's nothing I can do. I'm not going to make the space any better. And actually, the more I can remove myself from the birth space, the more I can have the experience of just Josh watching Josh. So it's not necessarily like a 5-MeO, but I would assume it's close to it, y'all.

[01:04:12] John: Your mind was totally silenced. I've heard people suggest meditation techniques and say it's like watching a mouse hole. It's like you're just watching and your mind's not going because you're just totally intent on what's happening right there. And so there was no ego. So you had the same experience because your mind stopped. That default mode network just paused.

[01:04:36] Josh: Yes. And there was pure love in the room. She was supported. It's so powerful. I can't even really put words. This is the third thing I've talked about I can't put words to, and I'm a podcaster. But yeah, I think it was as close to a 5-MeO as possible, watching life, witnessing myself witness life come into the room. That, I think, every parent who's had that experience can really connect to.

[01:05:01] Luke: I've heard that from many men that have been present at their children's birth. It's just ineffable. There's no words that would describe it, and I can imagine that. I had a similar-- because I haven't had that experience, I don't know, but something that sounds similar to that, when I first moved here and I went hunting for really the first time for a big animal.

[01:05:24] When I was a kid, I used to shoot shit, and I would cry and feel guilty every time I killed something. Never really stuck with me. I was too sensitive, frankly. But I felt like this right of passage, and I wanted to do it. We did a podcast about it. The podcast, Jarrod, is, with Mansal Denton, if you want to put that in the show notes. Again, you guys, show notes will be lukestorey.com /joshandjohn.

[01:05:48] So we go out hunting. I'm the first. They're like, who wants to go first? I'm like, ah, get this over with. I grabbed the rifle, and we head out, and I ended up shooting a massive wild boar. I took one shot, and then pretty sure it was a good shot, but the sounds that came out of the animal were rough. It was rough. I felt really bad. So I sighted up again, shot again, just to make sure.

[01:06:12] And then we're like, well, it's down, so it's probably dying, but we want to go make sure. And we ran over to it, and it was still in its last grasp of life. And so I sat there really close to it and just watched it die. And it was a trip. It was like this ephemeral slowing down of time, everything got sparkly.

[01:06:38] It was a fucking wild feeling that I've never felt except the only thing it could be relatable to is different psychedelic experience, but it wasn't psychedelic in terms of seeing visions or fractals. There's no bells and whistles, but just in terms of the deep presence.

[01:06:57] And I was crying, not because I felt guilty or it was traumatic. It was just like, oh shit, we're in a moment, this animal and I, and the animal was placed there by God, right when I walked up. It's like the whole thing was so clearly orchestrated, and that it was sacrificing its life for me to eat and for me to have that experience.

[01:07:23] And the thing that occurred to me in that moment was that death is a non reality, meaning you can't kill energy. You hear that. Oh, nothing really dies. Yeah. But this was a tangible inner knowing of that reality. And it's not a justification because I felt guilty because I killed something.

[01:07:50] Because someone who is against hunting or killing animals would be like, oh, you're just trying to fool yourself. No, I wasn't. I saw the energy of life, not visually saw, but I saw in the way that I felt it, that that energy just went, and it just went into all the other energy in the environment. But nothing died.

[01:08:13] It's just the energy, the life force that was animating that pig just went back into all of the other life force all in an instant. And that was the thing that was making me cry. It was just like, whoa, energy is moving here, man. And it made me think this has got to be somewhat what it's like when a baby pops out of a woman.

[01:08:36] Even though it's alive already in there, but it's now in a different reality. It's out of the quantum, as Josh said, and I was like, wow, I can see why conscious hunters that do it with intentionality and the minimum amount of cruelty and suffering and all that, which most of my friends that hunt that way.

[01:08:57] There's a lot of reverence and ceremony to it. It's not just, oh, let's go shoot shit because it's fun. It's a spiritual practice. Because that was the context of the way Mansal does it with his sacred hunting outfit. It was one of the most powerful experiences of my life, and I didn't need to take any plant medicines or anything.

[01:09:17] It was just witnessing how God moves energy, and I just got to participate in that process. And it was also super cool knowing, again, going back to that fear of death, if someone finds me out in the bush and shoots me like I shot that pig, that's what's going to happen to me. The energy that is making this thing called Luke Storey right now doesn't never die, ever. It just goes poof, and it just goes wherever. We don't know where it goes. It just assimilates into the life force of the planet.

[01:09:51] John: Ram Dass's it's like taking off a tight pair of shoes.

[01:09:55] Luke: We can hope he was right. But it's a really reassuring feeling, again, those kinds of experiences where you know, oh, this isn't all there is. There's so much more. And what we are able to perceive based on the senses in our body is such a small fraction of the totality of reality itself.

[01:10:18] It's like we're in such a narrow bandwidth of what we can taste, smell, touch, feel, perceive. We're perceiving this thing, and you watch someone be born, watch something die, die to yourself in a medicine ceremony. It's all kind of the same thing ultimately. It's showing us that there's something beyond the veil, and to me, that's comforting.

[01:10:41] Then I'm more able to trust in God because I know I'm not the victim of circumstance in my life and that I'm not going anywhere. I'm going somewhere, but it's not away. It's just to a different place. It's just another location in the multidimensional reality, just going to a different dimension.

[01:11:03] John: Do you think that, as much you can prepare, so that moment that you leave your body, that that's the key? And then they say that you have life review. This is what my friend, Rhonda Byrne, who did The Secret, I had this conversation with her, and she's talked to all kinds of different spiritual people, so this is one of the common theme. You have this life review, and if you have a charge over anything, you come back.

[01:11:32] Luke: Oh, shit. I better get rid of my charges. God bless earth and everything, but come on, guys.

[01:11:38] Josh: But don't you want to come back?

[01:11:40] Luke: I don't know, man

[01:11:41] Josh: It'd be fun to come back.

[01:11:45] John: So it depends on the individual. According to Rhonda, some people are going to come back to support, and they actually have that intention that they're going to come back. And then there's different layers of ascending, and you can go so far, and then there's all the way where you're going to this other point, which is complete transcendence.

[01:12:13] And I know this is going to sound crazy, but she's saying some individuals like Buddha or Jesus might not go all the way because they're staying a little bit beyond to hold the energy for us to keep things together. And so this practice that she has is really just releasing all of the charges that she has.

[01:12:37] And she says it comes down to one simple practice, meeting life with a yes versus meeting life with a no. And so you're just ultimate, total surrender to every moment. And then when you have that moment where you pass, your whole life comes, and you've already dealt with it all. And then you're off to the next chapter, otherwise you got to come back.

[01:13:02] Luke: Yeah. That whole reincarnation thing is so interesting because I really enjoy being of service. So I would think, yeah, if I reach a certain level of consciousness, enlightenment, then I leave my body. I would think in my character, I would want to come back and support.

[01:13:22] Josh: Yeah, me too.

[01:13:23] Luke: But if there are other dimensions outside of this purgatorial duality called planet earth, which is beautiful and also terrifying, and evil, and all the things, it's all the things, I don't know. I might choose a couple of tiers up in the disembodied spirit guide where I can be someone's spirit guide and not necessarily have to be encumbered by a body again.

[01:13:49] Because I feel like I would still want to serve and still want to love even out of this body. But I'm like, I don't know. There might be ways you could work your way up to where you can still do that as a guardian angel or something of that nature and not have to go through the whole cycle again.

[01:14:04] It's exhausting, man. It is. Being a human is the hardest fucking thing you could ever do. It is. I guess I would've left by now if it wasn't. But man, we were talking about this. It was with East Forest. He was on a couple of days ago.

[01:14:26] Krishna is his name. And we were talking about this stuff, and I think that it's a huge misconception that people have is that committing to a spiritual path is love and light, and it's just all inner peace. The more I commit to my spiritual path, on a scale, I do get happier and happier over time.

[01:14:49] But man, when you have dips, those dips are hard freaking core because you're committed to the ultimate destination of self-realization, man. And so the tests are going to come. If you want to graduate, then you're inviting those tests, man. And it's not the easy path. I think the easy path is football, beer, porn, going unconscious is actually easier.

[01:15:15] John: Updates.

[01:15:16] Luke: Yeah.

[01:15:17] Josh: Java.

[01:15:19] Luke: But then do you ever get out of the cycle if you just-- and nothing against people who just cop out, but if you're squandering lifetime after lifetime, it's like, do you ever get anywhere? It's like doing the second grade over and over again. You just keep getting held back, and you never move up to postgraduate, PhD, or whatever.

[01:15:38] Josh: This is why the concept-- and I feel like you and I have chatted about this before, this concept of karma and dharma plays in. If we really do have soul contracts, how does that actually play into free will? Because that means that everything is either planned, or we're adjusting the plan.

[01:15:54] And that's always tripped me out a bit because I think, okay, maybe these people that do drink beer and lead the unconscious life, there's a part of their not knowingness, there's a part of their deep unconscious that is still burdened by it. It's not conscious for them. In other words, they're having the white picket fence life. They're having the normal job where they drive in a box to go sit in a box, and then come home and watch a box TV.

[01:16:17] But there's probably a part of them that they don't even know they don't know, an unconscious incompetence where it's still burdening them. It's not that someone on a spiritual path is better than that person. It's just that maybe that's that person's karma, is to actually live in that lower level, just hedonistic lifestyle where they're actually in bondage.

[01:16:39] And that's part of their soul contract playing out. That's how I justify it, at least with words. I don't know if it's fully true because I'm still grasping it, but I get this sense they're still burdened by it. They're still unconsciously burdened by the fact that inside of them, their soul has a part of it that knows there's more, and that knows there's greater things to reach and touch. They're burdened by the fact that they aren't touching it, and they're burdened by the fact that they're not actualizing it. I think that's real.

[01:17:08] Luke: I do too.

[01:17:09] Josh: I sense that because I felt that in myself when I was completely shackled by my own belief stories that kept me stuck, and I was consciously gathering evidence that money was bad and my parents hurt me, and all this evidence that had stacked up, and it wasn't until I reached multiple breaking points where I accessed that part of myself that was burdened, and I didn't even know it. I truly didn't even know it.

[01:17:31] I'm curious how you guys feel. I think people are burdened by that. I really do. I think that's what makes people listen and absorb this, is that part of them is being called forth to actualize the goodness, to actualize the part of themselves that knows there's more, but they just don't have the faculty yet to really embody it.

[01:17:50] Luke: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:17:51] Josh: At least that's how I make sense of it.

[01:17:52] Luke: I 100% agree that the soul is sitting there waiting for us to catch on.

[01:17:58] Josh: It's like, come on, dude.

[01:17:59] Luke: Yeah. That's how it was for me.

[01:18:01] Josh: Are you coming with me?

[01:18:01] Luke: I lived in complete escapism for my entire life until I was 26, and there was something in my soul that would occasionally tap me on the shoulder and go, there's more, man. There's more. It doesn't have to be like this. Yes, there's another reality. You're missing it.

[01:18:18] Josh: Yeah.

[01:18:19] Luke: You're going to die. You're going to miss this opportunity.

[01:18:22] Josh: Dude, it's like a collective Jiminy Cricket. Like, look at Pinocchio. That movie's wise, man. Jordan Peterson talks about this. He breaks down Pinocchio on a metaphysical, religious, psychosomatic, spiritual level. You guys have to watch that if you haven't watched him break down Pinocchio. It's so entertaining, dude. It's so cool.

[01:18:41] Luke: We'll link it in the show notes.

[01:18:42] Josh: Yeah, link it in the show notes because there's some darkness in Disney. But there's also some really interesting ways that we can learn how to live better in these-- and all movies are like that. Look at the matrix, dude. Matrix is codes. There's fucking codes in the matrix. I've watched that movie 10 times.

[01:19:01] So I think there's something to be said about we get inspired by these stories because they touch on that part of us that maybe is burdened that we don't know is burdened yet. And I think that's why these stories become so popular.

[01:19:14] Luke: I also get the sense sometimes that I just loaf around and sat on my ass for many lifetimes before I actually did anything about my evolution. And that helps me not be judgmental when I observe people that are just willing to stay unconscious.

[01:19:29] It's like, how do I know I haven't done that 10,000 times? You know what I mean? For eons, I might've just drinking a beer, riding my donkey. And I was just not interested in growing up, expanding consciousness, just not interested, not doing it too hard, too scary, and just stayed in my lane.

[01:19:47] John: What do you think is a bigger motivator for someone to start this path? Pain or bliss?

[01:19:54] Luke: I think it's equal. I think we have an equal drive to avoid pain and to pursue pleasure. I think we're wired that way for survival. I think it's equal. But in my own life, because I had no experience of bliss, it wasn't something that I ever even aspired to. So for me, it was the proverbial fire under my ass of like, wow, this really burns. It's been a few years.

[01:20:23] This fire is growing, and I'm adding gasoline to it every day, and I can't take this pain anymore. But then also what took me to the dark place was trying to avoid the pain by pursuing pleasure.

[01:20:37] John: Well, it's like you can't really have one without the other, can you? And so that question in of itself is useless because you're somewhere between those two, and if one doesn't exist, the other one can't exist either. But I immediately started thinking about, there's no way I would be where I am spiritually without the pain that I've gone through.

[01:21:00] Josh: No doubt.

[01:21:01] John: But yet, if I didn't have the experiences of the 5-MeO or some of the amazing experiences you've had, some amazing experience with bringing children in this world. And so without that, what's the meaning of the pain? It's really interesting.

[01:21:20] Luke: It is interesting. This is all very interesting, fellas.

[01:21:25] Josh: Listen, I heard a clip on a podcast of Gabor Mate talking, which by the way, at some point I'm going to interview him. It's been three or four times, and he said yes. And then he didn't come on, but he said this wisdom that stuck with me, and he said, there's pain either way.

[01:21:40] You can have an experience where you can dismiss your soul, dismiss your truth, and there's pain, or you can have the pain of actually facing what it is your soul wants to express. There's pain either way. So I think you're right. I don't necessarily think the question is bad. I think it's actually a really great question.

[01:21:56] What motivates us, is it pain or is it pleasure? I think there's so much pleasure in expressing our soul in the way that it fucking wants to express. There's so much pleasure in that, but there's also paradoxically fear, and it butts up against all the stories that we've absorbed and collected evidence for.

[01:22:11] So I think there's pain either way personally. That's how I've experienced life. And then the pain just in general propels us forward to experience the bliss, to have these amazing experiences, like you and Pavel by the pool, doing an insane breathwork ceremony. There's no way that you could have called that forth unless you had gone through the shitty parts.

[01:22:32] It wouldn't be as special, in other words. It wouldn't be as meaningful. It wouldn't be as special. It's like, we need the theater to play out. We need the evil. We need the love. We need the dark. We need it all.

[01:22:42] John: When you're in the suffering, you're thinking, I want to be in the bliss. When you're in the bliss, you're like, I'm glad I'm not in the suffering. It's a lot better.

[01:22:52] Luke: Totally. What is the thing you're most excited about as a healer, John?

[01:23:01] John: Hmm, great question. I go to some of the procedures that we're involved with right now, and I'm really excited about the work that we're doing with the prostate. But I guess without getting into the nitty gritty of all of it, it's just the idea of bringing some very disruptive technologies to mankind and solving some real significant problems for people.

[01:23:32] There's a lot of pride that comes with that. Because it's like, besides that, part of it does feed my ego. I'm not going to lie. But being able to help people, that gets me up in the morning. It's those patients that they're coming in for that visit. We're like, hey, so how you doing? It's like, oh my gosh. It's working.

[01:23:58] I had this lady that came in with terrible vertigo last week, and she was just a mess, and she was super negative. And I almost didn't want to be in the room with her because it was just such a palpable negativity. And she just didn't think anything was going to work.

[01:24:14] And I don't know why she was even there. Maybe her daughter forced her in or something like that, but we had to do different Eppley's maneuvers on her because she had the crystals in her ears, and we did the laser on the ears, and then she was having something called POTS, which is orthostatic hypotension.

[01:24:33] And I had this PA that was shadowing me too. And I said, look, this is going to look crazy, because I had balloons on her. And this PA was really tripping out because she'd never seen anything like this before, but we fixed this orthostatic hypotension where she was laying down and my table would go into increments, basically standing her up.

[01:24:55] And I was having her do these different techniques to try and get her nervous system to be okay with being at certain angles in relation to gravity. These are really voodoo looking things. And this lady was obviously super negative, and so it was, to some degree, difficult for me because a part of me was worried about how she was perceiving me because I was doing all these crazy voodoo stuff.

[01:25:23] And then she came in, and she's like, you know what? I went to the beach for the first time, and I went over this bridge or whatever because she couldn't really do a lot of things in the car and so forth, for the first time in like 10 years. It was a spectacular testimonial. And I said, well, you know that wasn't placebo, because you didn't think it was going to work. And I had a nice laugh.

[01:25:46] Luke: That's a pretty good case study, when someone has disbelief in it and they're like just going through the motions because someone encouraged them to do it, or they're one last grasp at a modality or something. So that's even cooler than someone that comes in and is like, I know this shit's going to work, John. Let's do this. It's like when you're fighting against somebody's pain and negativity, and then it works, that's got to be pretty cool.

[01:26:14] John: Yeah. It was nice. A lot of the things have already been discovered. I think there's not a lot of new techniques or substances. At this point, I feel in my career, I'm just blending different things together.

[01:26:31] Once in a while, something will come around like methylene blue, something totally novel and new. But I'd say like for the most part, and I think this is probably true for a lot of healers and practitioners, is that they're just learning to put certain things together to be synergistic for certain conditions.

[01:26:51] Like with the prostate, we're injecting methylene blue, ozone, some of their white blood cells and a custom antibiotic. Putting a lot of different things together. People have done antibiotic injections. People have done like Schallenberger. He's the one that taught us about ozone.

[01:27:10] To my knowledge, nobody had been injecting methylene blue into the prostate, but it made a lot of sense because I was looking at intradiscal injections, and they were injecting the disc with methylene blue to kill different infections. And then we were irradiating it with light, which is similar to the way that they sterilize blood at the blood banks, is they mix methylene blue, and then they put light on it to sterilize it.

[01:27:39] So we found out that virtually most men after the age of 40 have some level of infection in their prostate. And it was interesting because Ben Greenfield came out because we co-hosted this event in Sarasota, and it was last minute. He stayed at my house. We're talking about what his treatment was going to be because we had a big film crew, and we were filming this movie called-- well, you were there.

[01:28:07] Luke: Yeah. I was the star of the movie.

[01:28:11] John: Yeah. No, you were there. We did treatment on you. But they recorded Biohack Yourself, Biohack Yourself 2.

[01:28:18] Luke: It's going to be cool. They got a lot of great people in that.

[01:28:22] John: Yeah, they do.

[01:28:22] Luke: Yeah. It's like the heavy hitters of all alternative health and biohacking. I'm excited to see it.

[01:28:28] John: Yeah, me too.

[01:28:29] Luke: Excited to see how much of my interview got cut. That's the thing. You do these interviews, and they talk to you for two hours, and then you're like, ooh, here comes my scene.

[01:28:36] John: Two minutes.

[01:28:37] Luke: Yeah, you just see your little lower third-- Luke Storey, blah, blah, blah. You're gone.

[01:28:41] John: Yes. Well, I know they were really grateful that you flew out and you recorded because, I think, you're one of the biggest figures out there within biohacking, your podcast. Much different than anybody else, which I love because you blend so much spirituality, as what we're talking about here in this podcast.

[01:29:09] Josh: Conscious biohacking.

[01:29:10] John: Conscious biohacking. Yeah. So they were really excited to have you come and speak because you've really made a mark. And you've really carved out a very beautiful niche, I think, and it's like, I wish we could get away from the word biohacking, but it's just such a perfect word.

[01:29:26] Luke: I call it now, but no one knows what I'm talking about until I start saying it enough, biohealing. All respect to Dave Asprey, who claims he coined that term, and he very well may have. I don't think of the body as a mechanistic reductionist perspective thing that you can hack like a machine.

[01:29:51] Josh: Mm-hmm.

[01:29:53] Luke: You're not your body. Because your consciousness can exist even when your body's not animated by life. So from the Indian mystic point of view, you're not your mind. You're not your body. And I used to really, I don't know, maybe have a limited conception of what that meant.

[01:30:11] I think it was like, don't be too identified with your body, and don't take your thoughts too seriously, and that kind of thing. But you really are your body. The body is its own living, breathing intelligence. It's a pure consciousness. Your body has its own intelligence. It has its own mind outside of the brain. So can you hack that? I don't think that's the appropriate-- at least for me, not the appropriate term. I'm not trying to--

[01:30:39] John: Well, it's a computer thing. It's like somebody's on a computer, and they're trying to hack into the mainframe or whatever.

[01:30:45] Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:30:45] John: Trying to get around something.

[01:30:47] Luke: Yeah, a computer isn't conscious though. Maybe with AI to some degree, some might argue that it is, but anyway, I think of it as more biohealing in the sense that you're giving your biology what it needs to heal itself because it knows how to do it. It's like you cut your arm, right?

[01:31:07] John: Yeah.

[01:31:09] Luke: Your body knows how to coagulate the blood, send white blood cells, send proteins, whatever, however it does it. Enzymes, I don't even know. None of us really know, but it's the one doing it, and you don't have to hack anything for that to happen. However, if you put some laser on it, or red light on it, or whatever, you take some peptides you're biohealing. You're not hacking it. You're just giving the body more support to do what it's going to do anyway, eventually.

[01:31:36] John: Well, there's a expression from chiropractic schools that the body doesn't need any help. It just needs no interference.

[01:31:43] Luke: Ooh, nice.

[01:31:44] John: And so this idea that you're hacking something is like you're forcing versus you're just removing and allowing nature to unfold. And so there are a lot of levels of biohacking techniques that I think are not long for the long-term beneficial. I think that you could say, oh, there's a short-term benefit here.

[01:32:08] I was listening to a really cool downloaded podcast with Ben Greenfield on the flight out here, and he was talking about the things that he's changed his mind on. And it's talking about cryotherapy and endurance, keto, and he's just talking about all these different things where he was doing them at a certain level, usually much more extreme. And the common theme was that he's found a balance with a lot of them. He's not doing cryo for three to five minutes every time.

[01:32:38] He's doing little 10-minute things during the day, and he's limiting his exercise, and he's admittedly dealing with some plaque buildup in his arteries, some atherosclerosis, and he's got a big process that he's going through, and I think some of the extreme things. And admittedly, some of the extreme things that he's done has caused some significant health problems. So biohacking is not necessarily completely safe, and there's things that we're doing now that in 10 years, we're going to look back and say, I can't believe we were doing that.

[01:33:17] Luke: Yeah. Totally. But what were you saying before? I think I interrupted you. My apologies. You were talking about when that film, what's it called? Biohack Yourself? That's the name of it. Yeah. When that was filming, you said you did the prostate injections on Ben?

[01:33:32] John: Yeah. Well, we weren't going to do it, but then he said, I wake up a lot, and I'm urinating. And then he says, if I had an infection in my prostate, can I give it to my wife? And I said, I think that's a real possibility. Since then, I'm like, absolutely believe that that's the case. But at the time, I was wanting to do a little bit more research. And so he's like, okay, let's do it. And so we did this Prestoblue. We call it Prestoblue Zone is the name of the procedure.

[01:34:04] So we did that, and they recorded it. So I don't know if this is going to actually be in the movie or not, and we only did one. Usually, we test people's semen, and we can see what microbes are in there. But this was last minute, so we didn't have the opportunity to do that. But he started to notice that he wasn't waking up anymore.

[01:34:22] And he also was saying, when we first started dating, his wife was having recurrent urinary tract infections. And so he's like, oh, man, I must have had this infection for a long time. So he's been very outspoken about this, and he's been talking about it in a lot of his podcasts.

[01:34:42] We've been getting a lot of calls from people, and I think we're going to continue to because it's a huge unmet need. It's a second leading cause of cancer. In men, is prostate cancer. And so what's fueling that? What's fueling the prostate to swell? And they're just looking at it as a normal thing for men.

[01:35:04] It's normal for the prostate to grow at a certain rate after the age of 40, 50, 60. And it starts to grow at a more rapid rate, and the idea is we're all going to die with prostate cancer, maybe not of prostate cancer. So these things, I believe, can be mitigated, through isolating and testing, and then applying combination therapy to that.

[01:35:33] Luke: When we went out to dinner down there in Sarasota with Ben, I think it was the day of that procedure, the day after, and he said, after you did the ozone, which is a gas, when you did the ozone injection, that he was passing wind out of his penis. He was legit farting out of his pee hole because the pressurized gas--

[01:35:57] John: We were calling it the barking elephant.

[01:35:59] Luke: Yeah. There you go. Hilarious, dude. Takes a certain kind of person to be interested in that.

[01:36:06] John: I actually had my semen tested, and I had a few infections in there. So I've gone through the process myself, and so I know what the barking elephant feels like.

[01:36:20] Luke: Really? When we did it a year ago or something in your clinic, I didn't have that experience when we did the ozone in the prostate.

[01:36:26] John: So I think what happens is in some injections, the gas can retrograde through where the needle goes into the prostate. And in other cases, it just depends on where the tip of that needle is. If it's in a thicker, denser part of the prostate, it can push back a little bit.

[01:36:44] Luke: Oh, I see.

[01:36:45] John: But most of the time people don't. And what will happen is it'll just fill around the capsule of the prostate. But even if there's a little bit of gas, some of it's going to stay in around the prostate. Some of it might come into the bladder and then come out.

[01:37:02] Luke: Right. You were telling Alyson, and I overheard downstairs, that my recent test that I sent in a couple of weeks ago is not looking good.

[01:37:10] John: No.

[01:37:11] Luke: Wow.

[01:37:13] John: Yeah. It's confusing because how are you getting-- we did a test each year for the last three years, but we haven't really done a lot of treatment. I think we've done a couple of ozone.

[01:37:27] Luke: I think we only did one ozone in your clinic, Advanced Rejuvenation, highly recommend, in Sarasota, Florida. We did one underneath through the taint, and then one above the pubic bone through the lower abdomen, but it was just ozone. And it was just one treatment.

[01:37:44] John: So we like to have people fly in for a week and a half or so, and do a series of three, but I don't know that just the ozone is really enough to move the needle, especially we're seeing a lot of fungus and a variety of different microbes in there. And this is next generation sequencing tests.

[01:38:06] So it's really next level. It's very sensitive. So it's not your normal labs. It feels like they have a problem, and oh, they've been tested before. Microgen is the testing company that we use. And we offer, I think it's 150 or $200 where you can do the test, and then one of my team members will go over the results with you.

[01:38:31] But the higher sensitivity test is, I think, actually showing what's really going on. And when you start to look through the research, they talk about BPH, benign prosthetic hypertrophy. And they're really not sure what the problem is, but they know that there's a hormonal connection, where there's an androgenic sensitivity.

[01:38:56] There's receptors in the prostate that have a sensitivity to androgenic-- like testosterone and DHT, and that it causes some hypertrophy. But what they're noticing is that there's inflammation there. They're like, yes, it's inflammation, which is increasing the oxidation, which is changing the sensitivity to those hormonal receptors.

[01:39:17] And so then the researchers are like, we think that maybe this might make an argument that there could be some undiagnosed infection happening with these cases, but nobody's been able to really go and prove this. But I think you're going to see that change over the next amount of time.

[01:39:36] Josh: I'm really, really curious. Why do you think the fungus localizes there? What is it about the prostate that attracts that? I guess you could say dysregulation. Why is there a viral load there? Would it be on the other organs as well?

[01:39:50] John: Well, it's a separate encapsulated area that doesn't get a lot of circulation. And so it's a breeding ground. So it's like a stagnant area. And so you've heard me talk about taking care of your doorways. I know we talked about that. But with men, there's this other doorway. You're looking at endotoxins.

[01:40:15] And so we're actually seeing men feel better even beyond just waking up and not maybe having frequent urination, but also urgency, people actually legit feeling a lot more vital. Because it's just like having a root canal or a cavitation in the tooth, or bad gums, or you having a dysbiosis in your large intestine.

[01:40:40] All of those things have one thing in common, which is there are microbes that are outgassing an incredibly inflammatory substance, which is lipopolysaccharides or endotoxins. And this is at the root of virtually all diseases. When you start to really look into this, you start to look into endotoxins.

[01:40:59] It's crazy. The rabbit hole goes very, very deep. Because what that does is it shuts down mitochondrial function. And so when you have a decrease in the life force, decrease in mitochondria, then disease expresses itself in a unique way with every individual based on your genes.

[01:41:20] Luke: Cool.

[01:41:21] John: And the environment that you're in.

[01:41:23] Luke: Wow. Yeah, it's interesting, after putting some attention on the prostate issue, I've asked a number of friends who are over 40 over 50, because I started finding that I was waking up in the middle of night to go pee. And then for a couple of weeks, it got really bad.

[01:41:39] So I did a kidney and bladder flush and all this stuff, and I borrowed a PEMF machine from my buddy, Freddie Kimmel. And I was sitting on that thing twice a day for 20 minutes. It calmed everything down, but I mentioned it to a couple of friends, and I'm like, do you wake up at night and pee?

[01:41:55] Because I literally never have my whole life when I was a little kid. And all of them were like, oh, yeah, I'd wake up one or two times to pee in the middle. And I'm like, dude, your prostate's jacked up. It's not supposed to be like that. Unless you drink three glasses of water right before you go to bed, your bladders should be able to contain that until you wake up.

[01:42:16] John: Culturally, we all are accepting it, and they look at it as being normal because just about everybody has it.

[01:42:22] Luke: Right. So I felt better because I was like, oh, that's just a new thing for me. And obviously, now we know I have some level of infection going on down there. I just got the worst cramp in my foot. Oh my God. That hurt like a bitch. Josh, what do you think--

[01:42:38] Josh: Want to put some light on it?

[01:42:39] Luke: Yeah, right. What do you think about pornography? Good for the soul, or no?

[01:42:44] Josh: Oh, come on. We're going from prostate to pornography?

[01:42:47] Luke: Yeah.

[01:42:47] John: Might as well stay down there.

[01:42:48] Josh: Yeah. I was actually even wondering, like, there's release, there's the prostate massage. Is that helpful? Because I think it's all associated to really the unconscious or unhealthy drivers for that release feeling. In other words, I've heard Asprey, I've heard Mantak Chia talk about sequencing your orgasms. And I wonder like, is there palpation? Is there prostate massage? Are there other ways to make it healthy?

[01:43:14] Because I think that's what drives in a weird way a lot of that feeling where people that have pornography addiction, they just want that release. But unless they're willing and open and able to be intimate with a real woman, which is how we were designed. We weren't designed to jerk off to a screen. This is all a brand new fucking experiment

[01:43:32] So I'm just wondering, even to stack on your question, gosh, is it all related? What are ways that we can-- maybe we can piggyback on that after I answer the pornography question because there's something there. Your treatments are incredibly powerful.

[01:43:43] John: Emotional connection.

[01:43:44] Josh: Yes, yes.

[01:43:45] John: I agree.

[01:43:46] Josh: Because I think for me, what drove so much of my pornography addiction was just a feeling of needing to exhale. I just need that. I need to feel that everything's okay. Ah. When I use porn, everything's okay. But then there's this residue. There's this soul sucking residue of me forcing my body to release in a way that it was not naturally designed to release in.

[01:44:08] John: Yeah.

[01:44:09] Josh: And so I think it's related here because to go from prostate to pornography, it's like, really, I think what drives pornography is what I was talking about earlier, where society has built this parasitic system that, that really just sucks our life force energy in a way. And I don't think, especially from my own life experience, there's any greater load than pornography because it hooks into the limbic brain.

[01:44:31] John: No pun intended.

[01:44:32] Josh: No pun intended. Hopefully you hold your load, and you release it in a natural way.

[01:44:36] Luke: I forgot to mention at the beginning of this episode that it's going to be an adult-themed show. This is for your kids. I should have known that. I usually warn people in case they're riding in the car with their kids. Yeah.

[01:44:48] Josh: Yeah. So 25-plus years, pornography ruled my life, and it was because I really just never had an internal locus of control to create peace within myself. That's why I found breathwork. That's why I found podcasting. That's why I'm sitting here. And so I think from my own experience, but I think if you look at Gary Wilson's work, Your Brain on Porn, or a lot of people that are in his field, it's really a limbic system thing where we have this very novel response.

[01:45:13] Nir Eyal talks about this in his work as well with the hook model. So we have this stimuli. We release our positive, happy chemicals, the serotonin, the dopamine. And then there's this delayed response where we need a little bit more next time. And so it's this slippery slope with a bottomless pit.

[01:45:32] For anybody that's struggling with a porn addiction, and my heart goes out to you, it's actually bringing yourself back to the way your body is supposed to function. And when I say supposed to, I just mean naturally. We are naturally wired-- when I make love with Carrie Michelle, there's a response and there's a specialness, and an intimacy, and a beauty that I could never get from a screen or going to some strip club.

[01:45:54] And I think that is also something that really is happening on a societal level, is we've normalized sexuality. Look at Instagram with tits and asses hanging out everywhere. Look at the way that we as men even-- I grew up in, in East County, San Diego. It was normal to say something like this. "How many bitches did you fuck?" That was a normal thing to say. Oh, did you get with her last night?

[01:46:17] John: Did you get her number?

[01:46:17] Josh: This pressure of your worthiness as a man is how many women you sleep with. Now I came from a very unconscious area, and my parents did the best they could. They didn't necessarily model this type of behavior, but I can remember when I was very young-- I love you dad, like I'm not here to blame you.

[01:46:36] But I remember I came home. I would go to his house twice a month, and we had this big round table, and there'd be playboys on the table. And that was my introduction to sexuality. My parents never really had talks about sex or the specialness or the sacredness of sex. And so I felt my body come alive.

[01:46:54] I felt my limbic brain turn on. I felt my penis get hard. And so that was my intro. And then that moved into more magazines and Hustler, and literally can look back with compassion for myself and realize that on a biochemical neurological level, I was doomed. I was fucking doomed. Magazines, then more magazines, then VHS, where you like sneak it in the beta max. You guys remember beta?

[01:47:18] Luke: 100%.

[01:47:18] Josh: It was the one at school. VHS, then streaming porn. And when streaming porn came in, it was lights out. It was game over. That was just something I would go to all the time. And it wasn't honestly until my second ayahuasca journey in Costa Rica, where I was forced to look at, I think I was 37 years old then, what my life would be like if I continued to just feed this demon that was inside of me.

[01:47:42] And I was throwing up in a bucket, and I saw this young boy's face in ayahuasca was screaming at me, like, this is what your life is going to be. You're literally vomiting on your future children if you continue to engage in this behavior. And it was such a fucking slap that I'm still, in certain ways, trembling from it.

[01:48:02] I'm still integrating the lessons that I received there. But I can look back on myself with compassion and realize like, yeah, that was actually me just trying to feel safe. It was a coping mechanism. That actually had nothing to do with sex. And this is what most people get wrong about pornography. It's not about the release. It's about something that one is avoiding that the release is a cover for. That's really what porn is. But these people, specifically Pornhub, and thank God Texas blocked Pornhub. I don't know if you guys know about that.

[01:48:30] Luke: Really?

[01:48:30] Josh: Yeah, so you can't access Pornhub anymore, which is amazing.

[01:48:33] Luke: I have mixed feelings about that. Not because I want to watch it.

[01:48:37] Josh: I know. But to round it out, it's like, look, if I was just a case study of one guy in Southern California, you know that's happening to literally tens or even hundreds of millions of men and women, by the way, that are unknowingly being hooked to this constant limbic activation that gives them the, I guess you could even say, pseudo pleasure, the pseudo sexual release, when they're really craving the authentic, sacred sexual release. And that's what this is all about.

[01:49:09] So for me, it wasn't about the sex. It was about feeling safe in myself, and I had to be slapped. I had to be slapped so hard and scared to the depths of my being that actually allowed me to say, okay God, what's the other path. I'm actually finally ready now to understand what the other path is.

[01:49:26] But it took plant medicine to get me there. Later on I met Carrie, and we had our struggles because of me getting off burning off that residue of porn, which, thank you so much, Carrie, for just holding me through that. That was incredible. She's younger than me, but in many ways, she's wise in ways that I think I was attracted to her for. And so understanding that porn isn't really about sex is the key takeaway here. It's not about busting a nut. It's not about cumming.

[01:49:58] Luke: I think you're the first person to ever say busting a nut on this podcast in eight years, 550 something episodes. Congratulations.

[01:50:07] Josh: There's a first time for everything. So yeah, I think what we're seeing now is there's this renaissance to come back to what sexuality really is. And hopefully with me sharing that, airing out my laundry, it's like, hey, the intention is if you're a man struggling with porn, it's not about cumming, it's not about the sex. It's about something far deeper.

[01:50:28] Luke: It's not about cumming, it's about numbing.

[01:50:30] Josh: It's about numbing. Do I think that pornography is bad? I think it depends on the individual. I'm not going to demonize all pornography. I think there's some erotic art that can be very tasteful, that can be very good for people, like couples that want to experience sexuality and deepen their connection.

[01:50:46] Look at tantra. People could even say that Tantra is pornography. It's not. There's certain sacred ways to practice exploration of sex that don't include looking at a screen. I think that's really what men get to pay attention to. And it sets them on a journey to understand parts of themselves that they were numbing and they were pushing down.

[01:51:05] And the screen came along, and it was so easy. Lastly, you know why porn is so addictive? When you overeat, you wear it on your body. When you watch porn, you're the only one that knows. So you can hide it essentially forever.

[01:51:18] John: Mm-hmm.

[01:51:19] Josh: And I think that's really dangerous.

[01:51:21] John: Unless your mom walks in on you.

[01:51:22] Josh: Unless you get caught. Unless you have to push eject on the VHS.

[01:51:25] Luke: Unless you forget to clear your browser history.

[01:51:27] Josh: You forget to clear.

[01:51:29] John: Oh no.

[01:51:29] Josh: So yeah, personally, from my own experience, I would say that porn 99% of the time is probably not good and not healthy. But there is a fraction of erotic art that I think could be helpful for people. But definitely not Pornhub and the fucking crazy ivory towers that rule that. If you guys want to go down the rabbit hole, look at who owns Pornhub, look at who the leadership is, and look at how they completely objectify women and don't delete things that women have asked them to delete. It's a dark, dark world, and it comes from a very dark place.

[01:52:00] John: Look at your history with how things unfolded with your father and how that led to this addiction to pornography.

[01:52:10] Josh: It's not to blame him, but it was there. It was the starting point.

[01:52:13] John: Yeah. Well, magazines, it's not really appropriate for kids because that-- yeah. But look at how kids are raised. From my perspective, it's like you're watching something that's not reality, and it's creating this massive release of dopamine. You're watching a screen, but it's fake.

[01:52:36] Josh: That's what you're doing.

[01:52:37] John: Yeah. So you're not in reality, and you're watching something that's creating a tremendous dump of dopamine and other neurotransmitters. And so look at kids on their tablets. It's like that's such a huge problem because they're not able to actually experience the real world right now.

[01:52:58] I sent you that podcast about the olfactory sensation. And so this scientist has discovered that these different sensory inputs into our brain are critical for preventing things like Alzheimer's and degenerative neurologic disease, but also traumatic brain injuries, but they're doing it with kids with different types of learning disabilities and developmental disorders.

[01:53:28] And they're finding that when they give more sensory stimulation, that these kids do so much better, and that all of these different adults that are suffering from these different brain issues are doing so much better in that the one sensory modality that was the biggest lever was olfaction.

[01:53:47] Because it's the only sense that goes straight to the brain, straight to the frontal lobe without going through the thalamus, which the thalamus is like this gate that's going to say, yeah, you're going to go here. We're not going to pay attention to you. Here we're going to pay attention to you.

[01:54:00] So olfaction is something that starts to go south with Parkinson's. It's one of the first symptoms that happens with early Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's, and virtually all types of brain injuries. You'll see changes in their olfaction. So this one scientist discovered this device that puts-- it's a diffuser that you put by your bed. He calls it the memory error.

[01:54:34] And so the study and the research has been more impactful on Alzheimer's than any other study that's been done. And they're finding that sensory. So when you start to think about being on a computer in front of a screen, you're not being touched. You don't have that physical connection. There's not smell.

[01:54:55] There's so much involved with an actual interaction. And that's what's happening with all these kids, is that they're experiencing the world without having the sensory experience. And what that's doing to a developing brain, and even a mature brain, is just catastrophic.

[01:55:13] Josh: Dude, we only let my son watch super old-school cartoons, because the new cartoons have been wired for more limbic system activation. So he only watches Little Bear, old-school cartoons. Shout out to Little Bear. Because of exactly what you're talking about. And it makes so much sense. If I'm looking at a screen and I'm trying to get that pseudo pleasure of sex, I'm missing out on what a woman smells like. I don't get to smell her anymore.

[01:55:37] John: It's like white bread versus whole wheat. It's this stale, sterile, sourdough that's causing this huge dump in neurotransmitters, but it's not connected to any other integration of sensory.

[01:55:55] Josh: That makes so much sense.

[01:55:54] Luke: I have an add on to that, which I learned from John Gray early on in the podcast. He's the author of Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. And I remember that book like in the '80s, seeing it around. It was very popular. And it always just sounded corny, so I never read it. Turns out his work is really about hormones. That's his thing.

[01:56:17] Josh: Yeah.

[01:56:18] Luke: And how hormones and neurotransmitters have to do with the success or failure of our interpersonal and romantic relationships. But he told me about porn. I might get this wrong in terms of what the biochemistry is, but I think what he said was that when you watch porn, or even when you masturbate for that matter, as a man, that you get this massive dump of oxytocin, maybe prolactin or something.

[01:56:46] Josh: Probably some vasopressin as well.

[01:56:48] Luke: Yeah, whatever it is. Yes, I clearly don't remember, but the idea was that, okay, in a partner-based interaction, because of their biochemistry, after you release all of that--, oh, and you lose tons of testosterone, so you basically lose all of this neurochemistry. But when you're with a partner, it's balanced out by their hormones and the way the biomimicry happens between you two.

[01:57:15] Because I used to trip out on like, I could have meaningless casual sex, consensual, booty call kind of sex, to be real, and I would feel fine afterward. Everything was on the up and up. Everyone was down. Everything was very explicit, and it was all clear, so there's no games or weird stuff.

[01:57:37] I'd feel fine. Watch porn, be suicidally depressed for two days afterwards. And I'm like, what is the difference? It's like I'm having meaningless sex with the computer screen or with another human being. Why is it totally chill with another human being, but not with the computer? And he explained it's because you're totally hijacking your neurochemistry. Because when you climax as a man, there's this huge dump of all these chemicals.

[01:58:01] And then if you're with a partner, with a woman, her biochemistry feeds you back and brings you back to baseline. And so there's, to your point, John, it's a multi sensory experience when it happens naturally. So that was a huge eye opener for me.

[01:58:17] John: The bottom line is don't masturbate. Don't watch porn. And there's benefits to not ejaculating. So I think that besides the damaging effect, it's really bad for your brain, and there's this aspect of you're losing your life force. There's all these nutrients, a lot of zinc and different types of nutrients that happen that are lost when a man ejaculates.

[01:58:44] And so the Taoist and some of these different religions that practice abstinence. They talk about ejaculating every month or two. It's healthy to ejaculate sometimes, but not a lot. I don't know about you guys, but I've been practicing this for a while now. And probably it's maybe every four to six weeks.

[01:59:11] Luke: Respect.

[01:59:12] John: Yeah.

[01:59:12] Josh: The French have a phrase for that. It's like little death, la petite something. Somebody in France is like, it's this word. But yeah, you actually die a little bit when you ejaculate.

[01:59:25] Luke: Yeah.

[01:59:26] Josh: So I think there's really something to look at there. Our buddy Alex didn't ejaculate for six months. He's the founder of Eons. And he said that it literally he could feel the energy build in himself, and he would transmute it much like Napoleon Hill talks about sexual transmutation. And it was so powerful for him, and he basically built the beginning of his company by him not ejaculating. It's fucking fascinating.

[01:59:48] Luke: The creative energy has to go somewhere.

[01:59:49] Josh: It's because he wasn't dying those little deaths.

[01:59:51] John: It's a noticeable difference.

[01:59:52] Josh: Yeah.

[01:59:53] John: Really, you talk to people that have done it, I can tell you from my experience, it's a game changer. It's a great biohack.

[01:59:59] Luke: Shout out. Shout out, John. I want to add a couple more things on the porn tip because after being freed from the bondage of drug addiction, I was definitely addicted to porn for a long time after that. It was like my only self soothing sense of escape numbing that was like legal in the confines of my recovery at that time.

[02:00:19] Now it's not. Now it's part of my recovery, and I just don't touch it. But I would be so curious because some time would go by in between because I realized it was having a negative impact, and then I would think, I'm probably cool with it now. It's classic addict behavior.

[02:00:40] Do it. Have a shame spiral because I feel like shit again. Why did I do that? Time goes by. Do it again. And it's like this cycle. And so it wasn't, for me, something that was harmful enough to me where I could just have a bottom line where I'm done. When I was done with drugs and alcohol, it was just period, no matter what. Rest of my life, never touching any of it.

[02:01:01] With porn, it's so insidious because, like you said, it's a secret. No one knows you're doing it unless you tell them or you get caught. So it's your own little shamey secret, but it took years to wean off. And then the periods in between I would start feeling so good. It's like the gay Hendricks upper limit thing, where it was subconsciously, man, I'm feeling so good.

[02:01:25] It can't be this good. I don't deserve this. I'm going to go into a shame spiral and use porn and hurt myself so I can bring myself down to the baseline of like, not that happy. You know what I mean? It's really just so gnarly. The way that it addicts you is just like, oh man, it really is insidious. That's the best word for it. But eventually, thank God, after taking really long periods away from it and then thinking like, I could get away with it this time, same old thing. It became so dehabilitating to me that it would completely knock me out, and I would just be insanely depressed afterward and feel shameful around people, couldn't connect with people.

[02:02:11] It's just so toxic. So I started looking into it, like, well, why is it so toxic? There's the chemistry part that I learned from John Gray. That makes sense. That's valid. Actually, and there's also the part, if you think about it evolutionarily, go back 10,000, 15,000 years, we're in tribes of 50 or 60 people. The number of sexual acts that you would witness or participate in, or just seeing a woman naked, you might have seen three women naked your whole life.

[02:02:43] Yes. And probably maybe seen another couple have sex, but probably not even in many cases, depending on the cultural norms. So the fact that when internet porn came, no pun intended, that in a half an hour, you can see hundreds of women naked, hundreds of sexual scenes, it's totally alien to the brain.

[02:03:11] It's literally not supposed to be that way. In nature that never happens, never will, until they invent computers and the internet. So that's part of it. But I started to observe just like, whoa, why is this so toxic to me? And what I've arrived at and still working on my understanding of this.

[02:03:28] But if you think about the scale of consciousness, David Hawkins's work, and you think about a horror movie, a slasher film is going to calibrate at 95 in the scale of 1,000 or 0 to 1,000, 200 being the level of integrity or neutrality. 95, 50, those are real low numbers. A serial killer calibrates at 30. Bacteria is 15. A rapist is 20. It's low, low levels.

[02:04:00] Josh: Why would bacteria be so low?

[02:04:03] Luke: Just because it's, I think, just lower intelligence, a lower life form.

[02:04:09] Josh: It just vibrates at a lower rate.

[02:04:10] Luke: Yeah. And it's rapacious. It just takes. That's just my theory on it. But anyway, to the point, if you look at different music, like if you play Metallica, that's a different calibration than Beethoven, or Mantra, anything. There's levels to everything. Certain films be meaningful and healthy from an emotional standpoint, a spiritual standpoint.

[02:04:34] Other films might give you some juice, but you feel badly after watching it. So I started looking at it from that perspective, and I don't know that David Hawkins ever calibrated pornography, but if he did, it's probably pretty fucking low on the scale, right?

[02:04:51] John: Yeah, it's below 200, for sure.

[02:04:53] Luke: So over those years that I was off and on with it and really trying to quit, but couldn't totally quit, like hardline no, I think what was happening, and why it became so detrimental, is I'm working on raising my consciousness for years and years, 25 years or whatever, and I'm meditating, kundalini yoga, doing all the things. So now there's a contrast between me at 520 or whatever, on a good day, and 75 on the scale of consciousness.

[02:05:24] So as you create that contrast, things that would have been normal baseline for you and, I don't know, most guys I know, not now, but in the past, I'd talk to guys about porn. They're like, what? It's awesome. I feel fine. It's like, well, those were guys that weren't working on themselves.

[02:05:41] John: [Inaudible].

[02:05:41] Luke: Yeah. That weren't elevating their consciousness. So it creates this disparity between your baseline of feeling really good, and you're freeing yourself of shame and self-loathing. You're feeling lovable. You're loving other people, all the attributes of higher consciousness, and then your reptilian brain is like, oh, we just need a release.

[02:06:01] We just need that thing. I just want to feel good for two minutes. I would only last about two minutes. I'll be honest. Just kidding. I don't even know. I never timed it. But you want that hit. It's like heroin. It's like crack. It's just like, ah, there's something so stimulating about pornography, man.

[02:06:17] If you're a fan of it, it really gets you high. So if you're already just living at base animal nature, it won't really affect you. But if you start to go into higher states of consciousness, it is going to kick your freaking ass. And then I think, well, okay, well, why is it low consciousness?

[02:06:34] It's two people having sex, I'm assuming, consensually. Why would that calibrate low? And why would that drag me down to my old lower states of being? And I think, because I worked in the sex industry for a time, which is all their story, I'll save it for my book. It's embarrassing, but yeah, I did.

[02:06:57] And so I was around a lot of the people in that industry for a while. And I would almost say every one of them, but the vast majority of women involved in that industry had been sexually abused as kids or had been raped. The men profiting from the industry had oftentimes been abused or been traumatized in some other way, and so they're selfishly creating a business model around the trauma of the women who are the performers in the video.

[02:07:37] And then that's being fed to a guy like me who had sexual trauma as a kid, who became a drug addict, who had PTSD, quits drugs. It's a perfect resonance for me because everyone making it is coming out of trauma. So it's like, you're feeding. The feeding that you're getting is you're feeding off demonic trauma.

[02:08:05] It's really dark. And this is no judgment against anyone that still enjoys porn. I'd be doing it if I could get away with it. I'll be honest. It feels really good sometimes. It's just the price is too high. So no judgment, but where I sit now, I really believe that pornography is a demonic energy, straight up.

[02:08:25] Josh: Agreed.

[02:08:26] Luke: I really do. Because it's all based out of suffering and trauma. There are very few people involved in it that are really healthy.

[02:08:34] Josh: Yeah. So well put, bro.

[02:08:38] Luke: So it's just like, that's why you turn on that screen and it just fixates you. It's like, ooh, let me get darker and darker. And you start to build a tolerance. When you first get into it, it's like, oh, watch some lesbians kiss. And it's like, whoa. This is hot. And you're like, ah. That gets old really quick. You desensitize yourself. And your dopamine receptors get fried, and next thing you know, you're pushing the envelope further and further into weirder stuff.

[02:09:01] And then you feel more shame about it. So then you got to numb the shame. It's gnarly. And the only way I can make sense of it is that it is, I don't want to say the devil. I don't really think of the devil in that way, but I do think it's a dark, dark energy behind it.

[02:09:18] Josh: I went through a purification process where, for years, there would be scenes that would pop in my mind. I'm like, where the hell are those coming from? And a friend of mine who's a psychotherapist, I'm forgetting his name, but I had him on the podcast, he said that we eroticize our pain.

[02:09:33] We eroticize our pain as a way to heal it. But if we're not conscious about the way that we're eroticizing our pain, we get stuck in these loops, like you're talking about, where we just go to the trauma because it's familiar. And so I went through scenes. I'd be driving down the freeway, and a scene would pop in my head. I'm like, what the fuck is going-- why am I even having a scene pop up as I drive down the freeway?

[02:09:54] It takes time to purify that out. Takes time to purify all this. They're really called micro traumas. So that's the way that this expert explained it, is you're micro traumatizing your unconscious. And so however long you watch it, it's going to take at least I assume, I don't know in addiction how long it takes, what the theory is on that, but it takes time to release all these micro traumas, especially if you've, like myself, gone from one baseline of lesbians kissing to crazy stuff that I wouldn't even be safe to share on the podcast.

[02:10:25] Luke: I'll tell you guys off mic.

[02:10:27] Josh: That's what feeds that hungry ghost. So I think people need to understand, especially men, there's going to be a purification process where you release. Just like when you heal the body, there's a time where the body releases detoxification. You get to detoxify your unconscious as well. I've gone through that personally.

[02:10:45] Luke: Yeah, you got to go through the withdrawal.

[02:10:47] Josh: And also just a purging of the energy of that demonic-- I'll say it, I think it is demonic, personally. That's my viewpoint.

[02:10:54] Luke: Yeah. And when I say that too, I don't know, it's not even a moral thing. It's definitely not a religious thing. It's just an energetic thing.

[02:11:02] Josh: For sure. We all know what darkness feels like.

[02:11:05] Luke: Yeah.

[02:11:06] Josh: So when you call it darkness or demonic, it's similar.

[02:11:08] Luke: Yeah. That's just how I contextualize it. And also viewing it that way helps me if I ever get the idea, because the idea every once in a while pops in my head, very rarely, but every once in a while, my phone's sitting there. I'm like, oh, no one's around. I could. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Thank God. There's a wiser part of me that's like, is it really worth that price? No, God.

[02:11:30] Josh: It's not.

[02:11:31] Luke: There is no temporary pleasure that is worth the suffering that's going to happen.

[02:11:35] John: It gets a lot easier once you don't do it for a while. But then once you crack it, then it's a cycle that you have to then have some significant discipline to stop that cycle.

[02:11:49] Luke: Yeah. 100%.

[02:11:50] Josh: It's in the corner doing pushups, just waiting for you to come back. It's always the same strength, so just don't go to it.

[02:11:56] Luke: It is. Yeah. And there's another piece of it too. I haven't had a lot of long-term relationships. This one's the longest and the most meaningful. There's also an element of it. I won't say it's cheating on your partner per se, and it depends on the confines of your relationship and the agreements that you've entered into together as a couple.

[02:12:16] I'm sure many people watch it together and whatever, but for me personally, it would be a betrayal of the bond between myself and my wife, whether she even knows it ever happened or not, because there's a certain sanctity of the flavor of love that we have.

[02:12:36] It's just like no outside interference. It's not because I would be looking at another woman or something like that. It's interference in the field. It's static in the field of our intimacy and our bond, because any attention I would be giving to that monster is attention that she's not getting, whether it's sexual attention or not. It's still my energy is being bled into that beast.

[02:12:57] John: Well, it's also desensitizing you. So when you are with her, maybe her body isn't like this porn star's body.

[02:13:04] Luke: The experience isn't as extreme.

[02:13:05] John: There's three women on the porn, but this is just one woman.

[02:13:09] Luke: Oh, you just reminded me of another point. I think part of the porn epidemic is tied to that too.

[02:13:19] John: Circumcision.

[02:13:19] Luke: Circumcision.

[02:13:20] John: Yes.

[02:13:20] Luke: Yes, brother. Because if you talk to men who are uncircumcised about what their sexual experience is, it's a lot different than mine. They have multiple orgasms, sex to them from the way they describe it, to me, sounds exactly like how women describe sex, who's have their private parts intact.

[02:13:41] John: Well, you don't think that they're desensitized though because of the skin?

[02:13:45] Luke: You're losing all the nerves. You're losing your pleasure center. The core of who you are as a male is being cut off. I've done two podcasts on it. Josh just did one that's doing very well, which is beautiful. But if you look at the physiology of it, an uncircumcised penis is built with built-in lubrication. It has a different type of friction. It doesn't need the type of friction in order to elicit orgasm like a circumcised penis.

[02:14:15] And I think that's also behind why so much of the porn is so violent. Because if you're circumcised, you have a callus on your penis. Your whole upper half of your penis is calloused. I forget what the skin is called, but it's this protein that forms to heal the wound. Because an uncircumcised penis is like the inside of a vagina underneath the sheath of the foreskin.

[02:14:38] It's all pink, and it's always moist. And I'm getting pretty graphic here, but it's really good to know. You mutilate that organ, and your sensory experience of sex is diminished exponentially. So when you watch porn, it's like pounding, pounding, pounding. No one's slowly making love in pornography.

[02:14:59] Everything is super extreme to create friction because, as a circumcised man, with the callus between your legs, you need a lot more friction and a lot more stimuli. Again, talking to the very few American uncircumcised men that I have, they have multiple orgasms, and the experience that they describe of sexual intercourse is like nothing I've ever experienced or heard of other than talking to women about it, where there's just these ecstatic, transcendent experiences and a hypersensitivity of that part of your body where there's all sorts of erogenous zones and degrees of pleasure that are eliminated when you're circumcised.

[02:15:41] And so if you look at sexual violence, rape, abuse, the things that dysfunctional men do, some of it, I think, is from training from growing up on porn like some of us did. And you're watching circumcised men have sex, usually in porn, unless it's some specialty, like niche fetish of uncut guys or whatever.

[02:16:02] Most American porn is circumcised men because most of us unfortunately have been circumcised. By the way, it's one of the only places in the world beside Israel and a couple of places in the Middle East that still do it.

[02:16:13] Josh: It's so horrible.

[02:16:13] Luke: At scale. And European guys are like, you do what? We don't do that. Brazil, everywhere. People know it's insane, so they don't do it. But if you grow up on porn and you're watching sex like that, and you've been mutilated, you've learned sex from watching mutilated men do that act to women in a certain way that is more violent.

[02:16:35] And that's not to say some people just don't-- everyone, women included, I'm sure, like rough sex sometimes, but the anatomy is so disfigured that it changes the physical act. Another crazy thing about that in terms of friction is, and again, I hope people with their kids have dropped off by now.

[02:16:56] But another interesting thing that I learned in studying this is that because an uncircumcised penis is self-lubricating, it doesn't need to go in and out of the vagina in the same way. It actually stays inside. Because the friction is created by the sheath of the foreskin, it's actually just stays inside and is moving in and out of the foreskin, which keeps the female lubrication completely intact.

[02:17:23] When you have a circumcised penis and you have the bell end on it, it's a ridge around it, right? You actually pull the lubrication out every time. People that are uncircumcised have never heard of lube in their life. They don't need it because the women provide lubrication, and it doesn't get sucked out through the thrusting.

[02:17:43] So this is something that makes sex sometimes painful for women and why they are not wet enough to make it a fluid experience. Because we're actually pulling the lubrication out of them, and we don't have our own lubrication. So you're really diminishing the entire sexual experience through circumcision. That's my soapbox. I'm standing up--

[02:18:06] Josh: I'm looking at your t-shirt, and we're talking about circumcision. It looks like that 5G.

[02:18:10] Luke: I have a big penis head on my shirt. Yeah, I wish the camera could see it. This is one of my new shirts, guys. You can get at lukestoreymerch.com. And it says 5G's, not 5G, and it's got 5G's, and a mushroom is in five grams, and then a 5G tower.

[02:18:28] Josh: It's awesome.

[02:18:29] Luke: Yeah. So take five grams, not 5G.

[02:18:31] Josh: Yeah.

[02:18:32] Luke: So yeah, circumcision, I think, is intimately related to pornography, and the whole thing is just a freaking mess, and hopefully someone will hear this conversation, and men that have had that experience or similar experiences will be like, wow, and get some insight.

[02:18:48] And maybe there'll be some parents who-- no shame here at all. Parents, I'm not trying to tell you how to parent or how to have babies, but it's really worth doing some research before you do that completely unnecessary procedure to your baby boy.

[02:19:02] Josh: Yeah, the history when I was researching for Eric Klopper that you introduced me to, so thank you, was that it's really one step up from child sacrifice. If you go way back into the history, as far as you can go, recorded history, it's just one step up from child sacrifice.

[02:19:19] Luke: Yeah.

[02:19:19] Josh: So it has very barbaric religious ideological roots that if you just take the time to explore them without bias-- I'm not here to tell you how to think, but if you just do your own research and you do something besides the first page of Google, you will find that the association that you're talking about, Luke, is so clear.

[02:19:38] It's so present. How could one even deny that there's a connection there? Because Elliott Hulse talked about people that are walking around with their swords unsheathed. So our swords are constantly unsheathed, and we wonder why there's war in the world. It's because the majority of men, specifically in America and other countries, are walking around 24/7/365, not just with sexual trauma the first day or week of their life.

[02:20:03] What the fuck are we thinking? But also that is what is fueling wars. Look what's happening over in countries-- I don't know if India does it, but I know for sure Saudi Arabia, they're very big in Islam about circumcising. So there's so many PSYOPs that are coming to light, bro.

[02:20:20] Our conversation has just touched upon many psyops. Circumcision and the way that it's been taught as normal, oh, it's good for your hygiene. It helps you get less HIV. It helps you get less diseases. It's all a fucking psyop. Your audience, everybody that we know doesn't think that's really shocking. 2024, everything's coming to light.

[02:20:41] John: It is. What do you think the ramifications of having that done later? Because I was watching this documentary, and there was a tribe in Africa and they would circumcise the boy close to adulthood and then feed the foreskin to the grandfather because it had all this life force.

[02:21:02] Luke: All the stem cells.

[02:21:02] John: No shit-- something like that. And so they were actually showing this, and this kid was terrified, and they're holding him down.

[02:21:09] Luke: It makes me nauseous.

[02:21:10] John: And then cut, and then they take it over. And then the grandfather--

[02:21:13] Luke: One of the shows I did a few years ago was with Brandon Marotta. He lives here in Austin, a great guy. He did a film called American Circumcision, saw it. And I think I learned that this might be sus first from Daniel Vitalis because he would talk about domestication and rewilding, and he would point to that as a trauma. And then that film came out, and there's a lot of interesting things about that film, and we'll put it in the show notes, and the prior episode I did with him.

[02:21:42] But one of the interesting things about it was there's a whole subculture of circumcised adult men who are called-- what do they call them, Jarrod? Intactivist. So they don't even say, I'm uncircumcised because it's a misnomer. It's I'm intact. I'm actually just biologically sound.

[02:22:07] So it's not that you're uncircumcised. You're actually just normal. You know what I mean? But there's men that are doing these stretching techniques and putting weights on their junk and doing all kinds of stuff to grow it back.

[02:22:18] And the numbers of men that are trying to restore their foreskin, some of them successfully from what I understand, by far outweigh the number of uncircumcised men who as adults seek out that procedure. That tells you a lot about it. Another weird thing about it is that in that film, I'm just like, I almost wish I didn't watch this.

[02:22:41] They show a procedure in the film. And if you watch that and you're like, oh no, it's fine. Here's something wrong with you. Honestly, it is so disturbing. And the one they showed was the most humane version. There's about five different ways they do it currently. And this was the safest and least traumatizing way.

[02:23:01] It was just absolutely brutal. It's like watching a snuff film. It scars your soul forever. After I saw that, I was just like, man, I'm going to talk about this. I don't care if it pisses people off. And the interesting thing about it is that I find when I talk about this or do podcasts on it, women are like, oh my God, that's horrible. Totally understand. Never doing that.

[02:23:22] Men who aren't circumcised who are intact or like, oh, of course, duh. People that push back against the idea and defend it are the men who are circumcised. And I think, and God bless, I'm going to piss people off with this. I think it's a Stockholm syndrome reaction. I really do.

[02:23:42] It's like a cognitive dissonance where one doesn't want to face that their parents hurt them. My parents know my stance on this, but I don't blame them at all. They did what the doctor said to do and what was the norm in 1970 in the United States. I hold literally zero blame to my parents.

[02:24:06] It's more blame on the system and the first people that started to propagate this as a practice in this country. But it's interesting to see how men get super triggered about this particular topic. And I think it's because it's really hard to face that, yeah, what happened to you was wrong.

[02:24:23] And it really damaged your psyche and your body. It's really, really harmful. The repercussions to the individual are immense. And those repercussions spill out into society at large in the way that some men are unconscious, and hurtful, and selfish, and violent, and abusive, and oppressive, and all the things.

[02:24:45] If you cut off the most sensitive part of a man's body and then expect him to be emotionally intelligent and emotionally sensitive to other people, how are you going to even do that? You really hurt that kid. And that kid who's hurt is probably going to grow up and hurt people.

[02:25:03] Josh: Yeah.

[02:25:04] Luke: Like I did. Yeah. I'm not making excuses for my behavior in the past, but I was not great, especially when I was an addict. I think, well, no, duh, no wonder that definitely played a part in it, just being calloused in your relationships with people and partners, just not having that level of sensitivity and empathy.

[02:25:25] It's like, of course, man. You're numb. You're missing part of your body. You're like an amputee. Anyway, obviously I'm passionate about this topic. And I know Josh is going to fire--

[02:25:38] John: No, me too. Yeah. You said it really well.

[02:25:40] Luke: You did that interview with Eric. You talk to guys like that who lay out the data, the history, the factual analysis of it, it's really hard to refute unless, of course, you're like, ah, la la la. I don't want to look at this.

[02:25:53] Josh: This too painful. So this week, actually, it came out, and there was nurse after nurse that were commenting. And they were saying things like, the very first time I heard the baby scream, or I was told that I need to help in this procedure, they told the doctor that they wouldn't do it anymore. Multiple, multiple, multiple comments.

[02:26:14] And I just wonder like, what is it? I think it definitely hits on that bias where, and Eric even talked about this with his father, he didn't talk to his father I think for years or something because his dad-- they're Jewish, and that's a whole-- you can listen to the podcast on that one, but basically, his dad would have had to have looked at the fact that his dad himself was wounded by his grandfather, and it was this long lineage of unconscious wounding.

[02:26:39] Really, there just comes a hero who's conscious that's here to heal it. And I think when that hero comes along, he or she is going to face some serious fucking blowback from all that stacked up energy of generations that, oh yeah, I was wounded, so I'll wound you too. But it's the same thing with molestation, rape, anything else around sexual trauma.

[02:26:59] It all begets more trauma. And so it's only consciousness that can heal it, and it's only conversations that are fucking uncomfortable to hear that are actually going to touch people's heart enough by maybe them being grossed out, by them being afraid, by them being enraged, that'll actually change the tide. I think that's the only way it can happen. It's not going to be fun, but it needs to happen. It definitely needs to happen.

[02:27:21] John: What'd be interesting to look at is the incident of prostate issues with people that are circumcised versus uncircumcised. I bet you it's clear.

[02:27:31] Luke: Interesting.

[02:27:31] John: Yeah, there's a connection there.

[02:27:32] Luke: There is a microbiome in the foreskin, and I bet it helps shield that area of the body from pathogenic microbes. I'm just theorizing. I have no idea if that's true, but it makes sense. Like how a woman's inner parts have a unique flora, and there's a balance to the flora that keeps it from becoming infected or dysbiosis essentially from taking place. And that's very feasible.

[02:28:01] John: Yeah. And also there might be an emotional connection. That trauma then causes some emotion that-- because emotions can show up in the body in different ways. One of the most commonly talked about is anger in the liver.

[02:28:17] Luke: Yeah.

[02:28:18] John: So our emotions have a certain signature in our body, and maybe that's the connection. Maybe it's multi factorial.

[02:28:28] Josh: Yeah. I had sinus and lung issues, and it was from sadness and grief if you look at Chinese medicine. Grief is lung. So I have an experience of what you're saying firsthand anecdotally. But I'm sure if you look at the research, you can't ignore it. There's no way you could ignore it. Tracing emotions to organs. The organ and emotion map exists for a scientific reason. I don't think you can refute that.

[02:28:53] Luke: So maybe the inflammation in the prostate that makes one have to pee in the middle of a two-hour podcast is related to psychosis.

[02:29:00] Josh: Or it was the drink Update, man. We all need to just sit in methylene blue, get injections at the right time.

[02:29:05] Luke: Well, I'm going to do one while John's out here. I'm going to do the, what's it? Prestoblue Zone. Yeah, I'm going to do the whole meal deal. Well, fellas, it's almost 9 o'clock, and we have some other stuff to do.

[02:29:19] Yeah. You got two kids at home now. So we'll wrap it up. But before we go, Josh, tell people where they can find you. You have a new membership and breathwork course. Tell people all about your stuff.

[02:29:30] Josh: Yeah. First of all, this is so special. Every time we hang, something beautiful comes from it. Thank you, bro. And thank you, John, for being part of my life.

[02:29:38] Luke: Yeah, it was John's idea.

[02:29:39] Josh: Yeah. Thank you for creating this man.

[02:29:41] Luke: To be fair, John would record a podcast every day if I would let him. Every time he talks, I think it's time for another podcast. We just did one two weeks ago, bro. How many times are you going to be on the show? Jesus.

[02:29:52] Josh: Oh, man. Yeah. So the Wellness and Wisdom podcast, and you can find that at joshtrent.com. And then I'm really excited because every single thing that we've touched on today, who you are in the world, who you are in the world, and who I am in the world, we're really liberating ourselves, and we're helping to show the path for others that want to liberate themselves from really these clutches that we all are in, these clutches of modernity.

[02:30:15] So I'm really excited. On my birthday, we're doing a soft launch for the LiberatedLife.Me community. So it's the Liberated Life Tribe. You can go to liberatedlife.me if you want to be a part of this movement where we understand the aspects of ourself, and we can learn with humility, how to actually liberate ourselves from these crazy things that so many of us are just now maybe even finding out for the first time. So it's a safe place to do that. It's a supportive place to do that.

[02:30:40] Luke: Epic, man. I'm stoked for you. I've been wanting to do something like that for a long time. And I'm just like, ah, how do you even do it? What's the bandwidth issue and all that?

[02:30:48] Josh: The crossover between the MitoZen club and even the community that you're going to create, there's so much abundance for all of us to lead communities. There's no competition. There's so much that's needed. We must actually link arms because unless the physical body is well, and our emotions are well, and our spiritual health is well, we're going to be taken out. We're going to live a life not well lived. And ever since I was a little kid, I was like, man, how do I live my life well? I want to be well in my life. And so, yeah, it's a safe place for us to do that. It's a supportive place for us to do that.

[02:31:25] Luke: Awesome, man. Congratulations. We'll link that in the notes so people can come join. And what's new for you that you want to plug? You got your clinic. You have Mitozen. You're a man that wears many hats, John.

[02:31:36] John: And beautiful jewelry.

[02:31:38] Luke: Yeah. He always has some. He's got the color jewelry.

[02:31:42] John: I've collected a few extras since you've seen me. Well, you can find me-- clinic is advancedrejuvenation.us. I'm on Instagram quite a bit. It's @drjohnlieurance, and then drjohnlieurance.com. We have events in Sarasota.

[02:31:58] So we list those on the drjohnlieurance.com, and then MitoZe is a club-based, member-based-- I'd say it's not really a supplement company. We're more healthcare technology, different types of products. Luke and I, we've talked about it on a lot of different podcasts, check out.

[02:32:17] Luke: I've got a refrigerator full of them. You know they're good if you got to put them in the refrigerator.

[02:32:21] John: You only need to try the bullets and the Vertical Spray. Just start with those.

[02:32:27] Luke: Yeah. And so the membership, is it like 10 for life or something?

[02:32:31] John: Yeah, 10-dollar life sentence.

[02:32:33] Luke: It's cheap.

[02:32:34] John: And one of the products that we're really excited about is actually in the spirit of the Update energy drink, is a supplement called Satori, which has paraxanthine and alpha GCP, bacopa, and some other Ayurvedic herbs in there. And it's really amazing. It's a small square bar, so it's really convenient to take with you. Each square has 200 milligrams of paraxanthine. I'm a huge fan. I think I introduced it to you when you were in Sarasota.

[02:33:01] Luke: Yeah. One of your many things. I'm going to eat muscaria mushrooms. There's been a lot of things you've turned me onto, and I'm like, oh, John's got a new thing again. Here we go. But they're always dope. Yeah. So then I got in touch with Sean Wells, and now I'm like, I don't want to say addicted because it's not addictive, but I am obsessed with these freaking Update drinks, and so is Alyson. Every morning, literally wake up and drink one each. It's just instant energy with no anxiety. It's amazing.

[02:33:27] John: Amazing.

[02:33:28] Luke: But why I like your bars is because they're awesome for travel. I love to pound a couple of those at the end of a flight, and you land, and you're actually like, fine, which is rare for me. Because I can't really pack the Update drinks, although I have. Before I had your stuff, I would throw some of these in my suitcase, be overweight every time, checking in.

[02:33:50] Why is my suitcase 75 pounds? I travel with t-shirts and sweats. I was like, oh yeah, I packed a six pack of these heavy ass drinks in there. So yours is super cool for the convenience factor. Paraxanthine, I'm telling you that you guys listening, is the freaking future.

[02:34:05] John: Dude, it's so good.

[02:34:07] Luke: Check out John's product. What's that one called?

[02:34:10] John: Satori.

[02:34:10] Luke: Satori.

[02:34:11] John: And we have a suppository. I don't think you guys have tried that one yet.

[02:34:14] Luke: No, dude.

[02:34:15] John: We have Satori suppository. We just launched them.

[02:34:18] Luke: Oh, cool. I'm still waiting for you to bring back the one, and I've mentioned this to you a bunch of times, that has phenibut in it.

[02:34:25] John: I did.

[02:34:25] Luke: You did?

[02:34:26] John: I have it for you.

[02:34:27] Luke: Dude, yes.

[02:34:27] John: Zenpository, but this isn't something available to the public. No.

[02:34:33] Luke: Yeah. There's a lot of crackdown on that, the phenibut, which is basically a GABA, a bioavailable GABA. And it gives you that-- it's very dose dependent. If I take too much, it'll make me feel dizzy, like vertigo. It can get funky. I just want to warn people.

[02:34:50] John: If you take too much. But the right dose, it's just really a beautiful nutrient. Activates GABA. You feel almost euphoric.

[02:34:58] Luke: It's like drinking a quarter glass of wine without the shitty parts. Or the alcoholism in my case that happens after the first glass.

[02:35:09] John: Or if anybody's experimented with something called GHB, it's got a little bit of that type of-- because they're working on GABA. And that GABA is the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter, the break system that the brain uses. So it's going to calm down any type of fear, anxiety, or panic, and so you just feel a bit of a bliss.

[02:35:32] Luke: Yeah, it's amazing. I wish that was available to the public. I'm sorry, guys. And what's interesting, they regulated phenibut recently because I used to buy it on a couple of different sites, and I tried to go back, and they're like, no longer available. Illegal. So its weird. Yeah. I'm like, what? Who cares? Weird thing about phenibut-- is it Phenibut?

[02:35:50] John: Phenibut.

[02:35:52] Luke: Phenibut.

[02:35:53] Josh: Is it from Thailand?

[02:35:55] Luke: No.

[02:35:55] John: It's Russian. It's a Russian technology.

[02:35:58] Luke: The weird thing about it, even though it stimulates all this GABA, which makes you feel all gooey, and loose, and relaxed, it keeps me awake. When you said that, I was like, ooh, I'm going to take one a night. I'm like, yeah, it's 9:00. I'll be up till 3:00. It's weird. Does it have that effect on you?

[02:36:14] John: I think it's dose dependent.

[02:36:17] Luke: Oh, okay.

[02:36:18] John: It's called a paradoxical effect. And sometimes people actually get that with melatonin as well. They get the opposite.

[02:36:25] Luke: Interesting. Yeah, I've had that happen enough times where I'm like, no phenibut at night because I'll be wired. It's super weird. I'm like relaxed, but just laying there not sleeping for the next four hours. All right. Well, hot damn fellas, thank you so much for joining me.

[02:36:40] I love you too. I really do. You're such beautiful men and shining examples of self-growth and expansion and helping others heal, and just putting your hearts into everything you do and your work. Josh, you're the best interviewer that I've ever been interviewed by. I've told you that before.

[02:36:57] I'm not blowing smoke. You're so good at what you do. You have such high empathy. You're so intelligent. The intentionality, your heart behind the work that you do in the world is really admirable, and I really appreciate you as a friend.

[02:37:09] Josh: Thank you, bro. You made me cry at the end of a podcast.

[02:37:13] Luke: And you too, John, man. You've been such a good friend to me and such a great healer. And I know you really care about me, and you reach out if I'm having a problem, and you're like, hey, man, I think we can fix this. And then you do. And it's just beautiful to know you. I appreciate it. Yeah. I'm really glad to know you guys.

[02:37:31] Josh: Same.

[02:37:32] John: Same, bro. Love you, man. Thank you.


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